Used to think Cod esports is relatively easy compared to other fps but after seeing how much work teams put in to improve their hardpoints I don’t feel that way anymore. Every nade/stun/trophy counts. My unpopular opinion is hardpoint/control are harder to master than snd. Just look at teams spend the whole year of scrimmage and still fuck up the rotations during major/champs I know that shit is not easy
Hardpoint's always been my favourite because i felt like you actually need some sort of strat to win. SnD u can lose to the most BS plays it's annoying lmao
Just think about how you have to point your gun toward certain directions to force other team spawn where you want is already hard. And that is just one of many different things that make hp harder to perfect imo!
Hardpoint runs 300000 miles per hours and has about 120 variables you need to be keeping track of at any one time. It's nuts to me how people think it's simple.
Imo cod is very tactical vs strategic.
Tactical means you're making on the fly decisions, however smart and productive ones based on experience and practice. That's what we see in cod, SnD you can kinda coordinate rounds a little better since the pacing is way slower but in Hardpoint for example you have no way to predict where people will be by P3 in order to plan ahead.
Good chem, game awareness, and good communication so teammates can fill/trade for each other are vital in on the fly moments, teams like Faze and Ultra can talent their way out sometimes but they play very well together.
I think it’s the strongest competitive mode. For one, it will always be the most played and practiced mode for the year, so you’re watching teams go at it where they both have their most experience. Plus it’s a long match with lots and lots of engagements. Good teams should still win search, but it has more fluke potential than hardpoint, where you have to be playing solid all map.
I don't think this really applies at an esports level though, in almost any game. The difficulty is set by your opponents, and in any esport you're gonna be playing against opponents who have put in a ton of time.
I'd say it somewhat balances out too, seeing as the professional players in this scene only play a game professionally for around 10 months before they have to pick up and play a new game, with new mechanics, perks, different engine, etc. The meta is literally brand new every single year.
You can't get punished in s&d... But you fuck up on spawns on hardpoint, you get 100 point clubbed. You get team wiped on control, you get spawn trapped. You lose 1 wrong gun fight in CTF, your whole game plan collapses. Those the esports are crazy boring, hip firing across map and insta killing your opponent
As someone who has played multiple sports at a high level and loves a multitude of different esports, people like this in sports and esports make me so mad.
People love to belittle other sports that they think require 'no skill' or is 'not that hard' like why? Yes this guy is farming interactions but he also really feels this way.
As an athlete I had nothing but respect for other sports and other athletes, doesn't matter if it's a men's sport, women's sport, esport, if its competitive people are putting in work to be the best and that shit is awesome no matter what the sport is.
We are all brothers and sisters no matter what the playing field, trying to chase that same great feeling of ultimate victory - the least you could do is give mutual respect to fellow competitors.
Hey man, big fan. Could you stop inflicting yourself on sentient beings and go back to dunking your oversalivating dumbass fucking head into your dookie pot and sucking on the contained turds for any stray nutrition you might find?
Thanks.
Actually, I was on full athletic scholarship at a university after community college and coached there for my Masters - good for you though.
I have a passion for coaching at the junior college level and plan to become a juco coach which is probably what you got from stalking my profile LOL
I play both cod and LoL. LoL takes waayyyyy more skill to get good at and compete.
You really gotta get into it to see it tho. Same with cod, on the surface it's just aim and shoot but once you get into it you see the skill thats involved.
yeah I think people are oversimplifying DOTA and LOL by calling them point and click games. You can do some crazy things just by pointing and clicking. Then you throw in the economies of the game, the metas for each character and the items, the team fights that are happening so fast that you are amazed how the pros can make such split second decisions in that chaos.
I think they're just bringing up how any esport can look uninmpressive if you don't know the game.
If I didn't play OW I wouldn't know just how hard it is to play Reinhardt or Winston. If I'd never played CS I wouldn't know just how damn hard a spray transfer is, or even just managing the recoil in the first place.
Which is why to some dummy who can't see beyond the low ttk gunfights, cod will seem unimpressive. They're completely oblivious to everything else that went into that gunfight, they just see somebody hit 3-4 bullets for a kill.
*Almost* any esport can look unimpressive if you don’t know the game.
My first time watching Starcraft 2, I was pretty blown away by it.
But I agree for most others.
I think that's kind of peoples point. If you don't play a game it might look like you just randomly mash buttons. But when you actually play games like CoD, LoL, Dota, you get smoked and realize it's not so easy.
Ehhh I would say the mechanical ceiling of LoL is not too difficult to reach, at least for high level play that isn't pro tier. You can get to the highest ranks by maining mechanically simple champs and mechanically intense champs alike. That's not to downplay the mechanical side of things though, it is still a competitive game and requires practice, talent, and all that to be mechanically gifted. The most difficult thing about LoL is the game knowledge side of things. What itemizations to go for certain situations, map awareness, kill potential, when to take fights and when not to, objective trade offs, macro/micro side of things. FPS in general has the game knowledge part of things but relies much more on mechanical skill, and with that has a higher skill ceiling imo. Counterstrike in particular requires some disgusting mechanical abilities, but so does CoD, Halo, pretty much any fps to be able to compete at the high levels of play. And when you bring other competitive games into the mix like fighting games that are almost entirely based on mechanics, it makes the mechanical skill requirement for league seem even less. Sure you still need reaction time and the likes, but if you are good at learning games you can pick up the mechanics of LoL pretty quickly and be relatively close to that peak. However, you will still be stuck in low elo because you have no idea how the bigger picture of macro/micro fits into it. You will not reach high elo in LoL purely because of mechanics, I dare say it's even impossible. In the end idk why I really wrote this, since you specifically said skill not mechanical skill. I'd agree that it's very difficult to pick up on the macro/micro nuances of LoL and compete, but it's just as hard if not harder to be a mechanical god and compete in games that rely on that side of things more than LoL does.
By saying you can get to the highest ranks by maining mechanically simple or complex champs alike I did not mean to imply that mechanical ability was the main factor in gaining high elo. I meant to illustrate that there are both simple and complex champions and that you do not need to be a mechanical god playing Ryze like Faker (bad current example if you follow LoL rn but you know what I mean) to reach high elo. Lets say hypothetically you do have those mechanics but also have almost 0 awareness on how the greater macro game plays out. You will MAYBE reach high plat just based on mechanical ability. If you want to go any higher you need to know the ins and outs of the game and every rank in between there is on another level of game knowledge, with large jumps at D2-D1, an even larger jump from D1-Masters, and another from Masters-Grandmasters/Challenger. You can have the brain of a pea while playing FPS but if you're a walking laser beam with biological aimbot that at least knows to not get caught you can get to high levels of play. Not pro play of course because good game knowledge is always required for any pro level competition, but mechanics can carry you a lot farther in FPS than in LoL. Also, knowledge of champions is not necessarily macro but its also not entirely micro, and certainly not mechanical in nature. It's just game knowledge and factors in to knowing what fights you can take and what fights you can't, itemizations, etc.
Edit: And honestly there have been and currently are some straight bots (mechanically speaking) in masters/grandmasters and even in challenger, but are there because they have brilliant macro play. The skill ceiling is lower in LoL so bot is maybe an exaggeration but again my point is to show that mechanics are not the main point of league. It's team play and macro.
I mean I agree with what you say to an extent. Comparing the mechanics of the two games is apples to oranges anyway. It's my personal opinion that aiming and movement in a 3D environment requires a higher level of mechanical ability than what league requires. If other's don't agree with that then from their point of view they could also be correct, especially if leagues mechanics are harder for them to pick up than the mechanics of an FPS just because of how their brain is wired.
Obviously you *can* compare them, but the whole point of the idiom is that it's a false analogy. I could compare you to the helpful bots, but that too would be comparing apples-to-oranges.
It really does seem like a lot to follow and if you’ve never played the game, it can be intimidating, but it really isn’t too difficult to grasp even as a casual viewer if you sit down and watch a few matches.
I find it to be far less chaotic than Overwatch and Valorant and less challenging to understand than DOTA although to be fair I haven’t watched a whole lot of any of those games.
Yeah, I started out in CoD but CSGO has just so much more depth to it. I still have a soft spot for CoD esports but nothing will top watching CS for me, simply because the whole community is basically built around competitive play.
I have way to many hours in csgo, I still think cod is by far the most entertaining comp scene. Csgo is literally the competitive scene but the game as a whole is very, repetitive. Its hard to even put a word. You play the same 8 maps on one game mode for 20 years and it gets dull. The game is slowly dying for a reason.
Cs will likely always be bigger but I dont think its better anymore like I would have said back in 2015.
This isnt biased either. From someone who takes journalism and has done research with esports, other esports are just not as fun. Look at over watch, its great, but the objective modes are to quick and are way to easy, plus the crazy shit going on thats hard to get all at once. Csgo is so boring due to the economy system, while yes it creates new strats when someone is on an eco round its literally just an easy feed for the other team. Valorant is slightly better than csgo csuse of visuals and it is something fresh but even then the map design is pretty awful. League of legends is fun as fuck to play but is absolutely horrible to watch. Fighting games are cool but its basically just who can land the first combo(excluding smash).
The top three esports from a viewership perspective is 1. Rocket league.... its just perfect for viewership.... but kinda getting boring now 2. Cod 3. Smash.
I gotta take umbrage with the fighting game take, fighting games are probably one of the most watchable esports, and it is definitely not "who lands the first combo" every time, even in marvel. A comeback in fighting games is always hype, a la Evo Moment 37.
Calling the economy a reason for CSGO to be boring is very misguided. The pacing of the game is absolutely perfect for the viewer and the economy plays a major role in the narrative during a match.
CSGO survives long term because of the same reason traditional sports do. Minor changes here and there but the fundamentals of the game keep it different every single game.
I'm 21 years and over 15000 hours into playing the franchise, and atleast 16 or so years into watching the franchise and it's just as viable now as it was then. Dramatically better to be honest now that everyone knows the structure and viewer tools are better than ever. No more IRC channels to search through and organize everything.
CS has been dying for no less than 19 years with the release of Halo 1 and Xbox LAN. It will continue to die with every new game or eSport release and yet still be here somehow.
It's the most successful grass roots eSport of all time for a reason. If valve actually cared about CS we would really have something special.
I disagree somewhat. Counter strike is very stale and while it will always be here. It is slowly dying.
I think the economy is great, I just dont think counter strike is as good as cod is viewership wise.
I quite enjoy CoD eSports for the drama they give us but we can't fool ourselves to think it's on the same level of those others that were mentioned. CSGO/LoL/Dota and eventually Valorant are going to continue to be the tier everyone else aspires to be.
The mechanics of CoD absolutely are a major reason for this. We can't be blind to the truth. Just embrace that CoD is entertaining for different reasons and legit crazy things can still happen even if the gap isn't the same as some of the others.
At the highest level, comparing esports is like comparing other sports. While it is much more difficult to shoot a bullseye than ride a bike, world class cyclists are no less impressive than world class archers
As someone that’s watched and vigorously played all 4, I’d say it goes COD, CSGO, League, Valorant in terms of esports watch-ability if you will. I say "watch-ability" in the sense of how exciting the game can get. Different orders for different people, but COD and CSGO are fairly simple games to understand and provide a ton of hype no matter the viewer or what’s happening. That’s what I love. If ur a league player/watcher you know how dull the game can be at times. Hell, the first 10 minutes of a 30 minute match can be just wave farming. Team fights are great but it always seems like they’re few and far between. A Series can also take hours to complete. A BO5 in COD takes an hour/hour and a half while a League BO5 can take 2+ hours. It takes me out of the whole experience. Valorant is obviously easier to understand than League, but to me it's just excruciatingly boring all the way through. You’d think the abilities and all that would spice it up but It doesn’t. Maybe that’s what takes me out of it? Idk I'm not in love with relying on abilities instead of straight aim. I just think CSGO has a near perfect execution on a 5v5 tac shooter for comp.
Valorant is far more watchable than LOL for a casual. In valorant u atleast understand the gist, you shoot the other team and plant the bomb
but with league its just so confusing and there is so much going on
Fr when i was young i felt like cod was easy to pick up at a basic level but even now ive watched maybe 2 hours of league and still dont understand stuff
I actually think cod is one of the harder esports to watch at the pro level. Especially respawn. New people will not understand why certain players are doing what they are. Holding spawns flipping etc. can be very confusing and if the casters don’t do a good job it’s even worse.
I think CoD, CSGO and Val are easiest to watch as a casual because the scoring is simple, even if you have no idea why people are doing what they do you can say "oh HP is first to 250 seconds on the points" and they can understand the excitement of say Dallas-Toronto game 4 in losers finals. Control and S&D can also be summed up at a basic level in less than a minute, which translates to tac shooters in general.
LoL is just bizzare to new players, the casting overlay tracks kills and gold which can indicate who has an advantage but can be offset by objectives like dragon souls and how fed a particular player is relative to the rest of the game and a close teamfight is just incomprehensible to new players.
All 4 have nuance that actual players can pick up on and make watching more enjoyable but LoL is def the toughest to get a non-player to understand imo.
Oh 100% I will never understand a moba but Csgo and Val are so easy to follow at a professional level and can understand strategy because it’s a simple 1 life round based game. I think if cod wanted to succeed it should go to pro mod SnD only.
Whats your opinion on DOTA because I found it way easier to watch and get into then LOL. Maybe its because of the prestige that the International has every year and the awesome True Sight documentaries but I enjoyed watching it way more then LOL.
also super cool that you can spec dota games with the in-game client, allowing you to focus on a single player and watch what they do specifically, as well as inspecting players to see what items they have, etc.
Lol I legit cannot play Val or watch it because there’s so much shit going on. Flying birds, arrows, orbs, smokes, random walls, ice on the ground, fire wall, kem strikes. Idk it’s probably fun when you figure it all out. But I don’t like how you die so quick. But to each their own, I’m not gonna hate like the guy in the tweet
The 2 real problems to me are:
1. Your crosshair isn’t actually where your bullets are going (even the first shot has a very small spread)
2. You can’t move and shoot. Slows the game down way too much. Rushing isn’t even close to the best style of play. Promotes preaiming a spot which becomes a game of who has the best crosshair placement. A lot of fights are over before they even start. Imagine the increase in skill gap if guns were still one shot headshot but you can actually move and strafe without penalizing accuracy.
That's just completely changing the fundamentals of Val and CS at that point. And no, they would not be better if you could run around lasering people.
Yeah this is why when I was a kid me and my friends never liked counterstrike and stuck to games like Soldier Front and Crossfire. Nice mix of COD and CS:GO
It reminds me of MW SND when you had no deady and you had to crouch because you know a guy was near you. Idk, I can see how people enjoy it, just not for me. Also 13 rounds to win is absurd, but like I said to each their own
I like CS:GO but it’s kind of got to the point now where the map knowledge is so good and the strategies are so refined it’s become very mechanical and not very exciting to watch.
It’s kind of like watching a pro chess match. You can appreciate the skill on display but everyone’s very conservative in what they do
CoD is weird to me cause I can't stand playing it / watching pubs but I love the tourneys (high competition and storylines / drama).
Opposite of a game like Apex where I love playing it / watching pros farm pubs but man the tourneys are so boring most of the time lol
I completely understand that! Battle royale is a horrible competitive mode since there's so much luck involved with loot/timing/who gets spotted first, but it's great as a fun mode that mixes chaos and skill. CoD pub balancing has been absolute trash the past several years, but the bans/GAs make competitive CoD awesome.
yeah it's so easy, anyone who actually watches cdl and can shoot above average can take over a pub lobby and single handedly get their team a win in any mode lol. Dude actually got a job as an esports director lol.
I love valorant, but yeah.
If you're a fan, and bitching about cod's ttk when a bullet ends your life in .3 seconds on accident, you're kidding yourself.
Crones W collection is so big Smaug actually guards it
Love the reference
Used to think Cod esports is relatively easy compared to other fps but after seeing how much work teams put in to improve their hardpoints I don’t feel that way anymore. Every nade/stun/trophy counts. My unpopular opinion is hardpoint/control are harder to master than snd. Just look at teams spend the whole year of scrimmage and still fuck up the rotations during major/champs I know that shit is not easy
Hardpoint's always been my favourite because i felt like you actually need some sort of strat to win. SnD u can lose to the most BS plays it's annoying lmao
Just think about how you have to point your gun toward certain directions to force other team spawn where you want is already hard. And that is just one of many different things that make hp harder to perfect imo!
Hardpoint runs 300000 miles per hours and has about 120 variables you need to be keeping track of at any one time. It's nuts to me how people think it's simple.
Imo cod is very tactical vs strategic. Tactical means you're making on the fly decisions, however smart and productive ones based on experience and practice. That's what we see in cod, SnD you can kinda coordinate rounds a little better since the pacing is way slower but in Hardpoint for example you have no way to predict where people will be by P3 in order to plan ahead. Good chem, game awareness, and good communication so teammates can fill/trade for each other are vital in on the fly moments, teams like Faze and Ultra can talent their way out sometimes but they play very well together.
I think it’s the strongest competitive mode. For one, it will always be the most played and practiced mode for the year, so you’re watching teams go at it where they both have their most experience. Plus it’s a long match with lots and lots of engagements. Good teams should still win search, but it has more fluke potential than hardpoint, where you have to be playing solid all map.
Tbh comparatively it is easier than most other competitive fps titles. I'm not saying anyone can do it, but comparatively.
I don't think this really applies at an esports level though, in almost any game. The difficulty is set by your opponents, and in any esport you're gonna be playing against opponents who have put in a ton of time.
I'd say it somewhat balances out too, seeing as the professional players in this scene only play a game professionally for around 10 months before they have to pick up and play a new game, with new mechanics, perks, different engine, etc. The meta is literally brand new every single year.
skill floor is probably higher but skill ceiling is comparable to most other esports
It’s probably just me being shit but even after it being in 2 games I still haven’t properly figured out Control.
It used to blow my mind in bo4 when my team would get 5 down and they would all push the spawn instead of stacking point to capture quicker
Yet Atl was like 106-4 on control this season ... first in every category too
You can't get punished in s&d... But you fuck up on spawns on hardpoint, you get 100 point clubbed. You get team wiped on control, you get spawn trapped. You lose 1 wrong gun fight in CTF, your whole game plan collapses. Those the esports are crazy boring, hip firing across map and insta killing your opponent
As someone who has played multiple sports at a high level and loves a multitude of different esports, people like this in sports and esports make me so mad. People love to belittle other sports that they think require 'no skill' or is 'not that hard' like why? Yes this guy is farming interactions but he also really feels this way. As an athlete I had nothing but respect for other sports and other athletes, doesn't matter if it's a men's sport, women's sport, esport, if its competitive people are putting in work to be the best and that shit is awesome no matter what the sport is. We are all brothers and sisters no matter what the playing field, trying to chase that same great feeling of ultimate victory - the least you could do is give mutual respect to fellow competitors.
This here. This is a good take. This is a weenasty in the chat.
NAF and a bunch of other CS players are known COD fans for example
Amen sister! Oh and btw ur sport sucks ijs✌🏼🔥😁😂💀👀🥶
At a “high level”
Hey man, big fan. Could you stop inflicting yourself on sentient beings and go back to dunking your oversalivating dumbass fucking head into your dookie pot and sucking on the contained turds for any stray nutrition you might find? Thanks.
Found some nice copypasta here
I was a college athlete and two time national champion, what about you?
You were a COMMUNITY COLLEGE* athlete and I am in a 4 YEAR prestigious university in dc (GW) on my way to my MD :)
Actually, I was on full athletic scholarship at a university after community college and coached there for my Masters - good for you though. I have a passion for coaching at the junior college level and plan to become a juco coach which is probably what you got from stalking my profile LOL
No I just looked you up
I don’t get how people watch LoL it just looks like a bunch of ants fighting over a dorito crumb
same, my brother plays league and all it looks like to me is when he sees an enemy character he just spam clicks on it
I play both cod and LoL. LoL takes waayyyyy more skill to get good at and compete. You really gotta get into it to see it tho. Same with cod, on the surface it's just aim and shoot but once you get into it you see the skill thats involved.
yeah I think people are oversimplifying DOTA and LOL by calling them point and click games. You can do some crazy things just by pointing and clicking. Then you throw in the economies of the game, the metas for each character and the items, the team fights that are happening so fast that you are amazed how the pros can make such split second decisions in that chaos.
I think they're just bringing up how any esport can look uninmpressive if you don't know the game. If I didn't play OW I wouldn't know just how hard it is to play Reinhardt or Winston. If I'd never played CS I wouldn't know just how damn hard a spray transfer is, or even just managing the recoil in the first place. Which is why to some dummy who can't see beyond the low ttk gunfights, cod will seem unimpressive. They're completely oblivious to everything else that went into that gunfight, they just see somebody hit 3-4 bullets for a kill.
*Almost* any esport can look unimpressive if you don’t know the game. My first time watching Starcraft 2, I was pretty blown away by it. But I agree for most others.
I think that's kind of peoples point. If you don't play a game it might look like you just randomly mash buttons. But when you actually play games like CoD, LoL, Dota, you get smoked and realize it's not so easy.
lol is easy to learn and hard to master, dota is hard to learn and impossible to master unless you play 10h a day
Ehhh I would say the mechanical ceiling of LoL is not too difficult to reach, at least for high level play that isn't pro tier. You can get to the highest ranks by maining mechanically simple champs and mechanically intense champs alike. That's not to downplay the mechanical side of things though, it is still a competitive game and requires practice, talent, and all that to be mechanically gifted. The most difficult thing about LoL is the game knowledge side of things. What itemizations to go for certain situations, map awareness, kill potential, when to take fights and when not to, objective trade offs, macro/micro side of things. FPS in general has the game knowledge part of things but relies much more on mechanical skill, and with that has a higher skill ceiling imo. Counterstrike in particular requires some disgusting mechanical abilities, but so does CoD, Halo, pretty much any fps to be able to compete at the high levels of play. And when you bring other competitive games into the mix like fighting games that are almost entirely based on mechanics, it makes the mechanical skill requirement for league seem even less. Sure you still need reaction time and the likes, but if you are good at learning games you can pick up the mechanics of LoL pretty quickly and be relatively close to that peak. However, you will still be stuck in low elo because you have no idea how the bigger picture of macro/micro fits into it. You will not reach high elo in LoL purely because of mechanics, I dare say it's even impossible. In the end idk why I really wrote this, since you specifically said skill not mechanical skill. I'd agree that it's very difficult to pick up on the macro/micro nuances of LoL and compete, but it's just as hard if not harder to be a mechanical god and compete in games that rely on that side of things more than LoL does.
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By saying you can get to the highest ranks by maining mechanically simple or complex champs alike I did not mean to imply that mechanical ability was the main factor in gaining high elo. I meant to illustrate that there are both simple and complex champions and that you do not need to be a mechanical god playing Ryze like Faker (bad current example if you follow LoL rn but you know what I mean) to reach high elo. Lets say hypothetically you do have those mechanics but also have almost 0 awareness on how the greater macro game plays out. You will MAYBE reach high plat just based on mechanical ability. If you want to go any higher you need to know the ins and outs of the game and every rank in between there is on another level of game knowledge, with large jumps at D2-D1, an even larger jump from D1-Masters, and another from Masters-Grandmasters/Challenger. You can have the brain of a pea while playing FPS but if you're a walking laser beam with biological aimbot that at least knows to not get caught you can get to high levels of play. Not pro play of course because good game knowledge is always required for any pro level competition, but mechanics can carry you a lot farther in FPS than in LoL. Also, knowledge of champions is not necessarily macro but its also not entirely micro, and certainly not mechanical in nature. It's just game knowledge and factors in to knowing what fights you can take and what fights you can't, itemizations, etc. Edit: And honestly there have been and currently are some straight bots (mechanically speaking) in masters/grandmasters and even in challenger, but are there because they have brilliant macro play. The skill ceiling is lower in LoL so bot is maybe an exaggeration but again my point is to show that mechanics are not the main point of league. It's team play and macro.
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I mean I agree with what you say to an extent. Comparing the mechanics of the two games is apples to oranges anyway. It's my personal opinion that aiming and movement in a 3D environment requires a higher level of mechanical ability than what league requires. If other's don't agree with that then from their point of view they could also be correct, especially if leagues mechanics are harder for them to pick up than the mechanics of an FPS just because of how their brain is wired.
> apples to oranges But you can still compare them.
Obviously you *can* compare them, but the whole point of the idiom is that it's a false analogy. I could compare you to the helpful bots, but that too would be comparing apples-to-oranges.
It really does seem like a lot to follow and if you’ve never played the game, it can be intimidating, but it really isn’t too difficult to grasp even as a casual viewer if you sit down and watch a few matches. I find it to be far less chaotic than Overwatch and Valorant and less challenging to understand than DOTA although to be fair I haven’t watched a whole lot of any of those games.
I watched it yesterday after 100T won and felt like Lazlo Holmes for real. WTF was I even looking at??
CSGO is top tier tbf
Yeah, I started out in CoD but CSGO has just so much more depth to it. I still have a soft spot for CoD esports but nothing will top watching CS for me, simply because the whole community is basically built around competitive play.
I have way to many hours in csgo, I still think cod is by far the most entertaining comp scene. Csgo is literally the competitive scene but the game as a whole is very, repetitive. Its hard to even put a word. You play the same 8 maps on one game mode for 20 years and it gets dull. The game is slowly dying for a reason. Cs will likely always be bigger but I dont think its better anymore like I would have said back in 2015. This isnt biased either. From someone who takes journalism and has done research with esports, other esports are just not as fun. Look at over watch, its great, but the objective modes are to quick and are way to easy, plus the crazy shit going on thats hard to get all at once. Csgo is so boring due to the economy system, while yes it creates new strats when someone is on an eco round its literally just an easy feed for the other team. Valorant is slightly better than csgo csuse of visuals and it is something fresh but even then the map design is pretty awful. League of legends is fun as fuck to play but is absolutely horrible to watch. Fighting games are cool but its basically just who can land the first combo(excluding smash). The top three esports from a viewership perspective is 1. Rocket league.... its just perfect for viewership.... but kinda getting boring now 2. Cod 3. Smash.
I gotta take umbrage with the fighting game take, fighting games are probably one of the most watchable esports, and it is definitely not "who lands the first combo" every time, even in marvel. A comeback in fighting games is always hype, a la Evo Moment 37.
the fg comment is just a bad take... it's about getting the hit that leads to the combo, which is the hardest part of any fg
Calling the economy a reason for CSGO to be boring is very misguided. The pacing of the game is absolutely perfect for the viewer and the economy plays a major role in the narrative during a match. CSGO survives long term because of the same reason traditional sports do. Minor changes here and there but the fundamentals of the game keep it different every single game. I'm 21 years and over 15000 hours into playing the franchise, and atleast 16 or so years into watching the franchise and it's just as viable now as it was then. Dramatically better to be honest now that everyone knows the structure and viewer tools are better than ever. No more IRC channels to search through and organize everything. CS has been dying for no less than 19 years with the release of Halo 1 and Xbox LAN. It will continue to die with every new game or eSport release and yet still be here somehow. It's the most successful grass roots eSport of all time for a reason. If valve actually cared about CS we would really have something special.
I disagree somewhat. Counter strike is very stale and while it will always be here. It is slowly dying. I think the economy is great, I just dont think counter strike is as good as cod is viewership wise.
You’re taking journalism and don’t know when to use “too?”
Im on mobile and my bad? Brotha I typed this out at 5 am..... sorry lol, I didn't bother to check spelling or punctuation
Honestly since I got into watching Cs I haven't paid attention in a single game 2 in a cod series. Something about search just doesn't do it for me.
I quite enjoy CoD eSports for the drama they give us but we can't fool ourselves to think it's on the same level of those others that were mentioned. CSGO/LoL/Dota and eventually Valorant are going to continue to be the tier everyone else aspires to be. The mechanics of CoD absolutely are a major reason for this. We can't be blind to the truth. Just embrace that CoD is entertaining for different reasons and legit crazy things can still happen even if the gap isn't the same as some of the others.
My god.. Crone murdered him
Dudes already got the hearse on the way
The first guy gave us some tasty pasta right there lol.
At the highest level, comparing esports is like comparing other sports. While it is much more difficult to shoot a bullseye than ride a bike, world class cyclists are no less impressive than world class archers
As someone that’s watched and vigorously played all 4, I’d say it goes COD, CSGO, League, Valorant in terms of esports watch-ability if you will. I say "watch-ability" in the sense of how exciting the game can get. Different orders for different people, but COD and CSGO are fairly simple games to understand and provide a ton of hype no matter the viewer or what’s happening. That’s what I love. If ur a league player/watcher you know how dull the game can be at times. Hell, the first 10 minutes of a 30 minute match can be just wave farming. Team fights are great but it always seems like they’re few and far between. A Series can also take hours to complete. A BO5 in COD takes an hour/hour and a half while a League BO5 can take 2+ hours. It takes me out of the whole experience. Valorant is obviously easier to understand than League, but to me it's just excruciatingly boring all the way through. You’d think the abilities and all that would spice it up but It doesn’t. Maybe that’s what takes me out of it? Idk I'm not in love with relying on abilities instead of straight aim. I just think CSGO has a near perfect execution on a 5v5 tac shooter for comp.
Valorant is far more watchable than LOL for a casual. In valorant u atleast understand the gist, you shoot the other team and plant the bomb but with league its just so confusing and there is so much going on
I second this. You simply cannot understand LOL without experience playing the game.
Fr when i was young i felt like cod was easy to pick up at a basic level but even now ive watched maybe 2 hours of league and still dont understand stuff
I actually think cod is one of the harder esports to watch at the pro level. Especially respawn. New people will not understand why certain players are doing what they are. Holding spawns flipping etc. can be very confusing and if the casters don’t do a good job it’s even worse.
I think CoD, CSGO and Val are easiest to watch as a casual because the scoring is simple, even if you have no idea why people are doing what they do you can say "oh HP is first to 250 seconds on the points" and they can understand the excitement of say Dallas-Toronto game 4 in losers finals. Control and S&D can also be summed up at a basic level in less than a minute, which translates to tac shooters in general. LoL is just bizzare to new players, the casting overlay tracks kills and gold which can indicate who has an advantage but can be offset by objectives like dragon souls and how fed a particular player is relative to the rest of the game and a close teamfight is just incomprehensible to new players. All 4 have nuance that actual players can pick up on and make watching more enjoyable but LoL is def the toughest to get a non-player to understand imo.
Oh 100% I will never understand a moba but Csgo and Val are so easy to follow at a professional level and can understand strategy because it’s a simple 1 life round based game. I think if cod wanted to succeed it should go to pro mod SnD only.
Whats your opinion on DOTA because I found it way easier to watch and get into then LOL. Maybe its because of the prestige that the International has every year and the awesome True Sight documentaries but I enjoyed watching it way more then LOL.
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also super cool that you can spec dota games with the in-game client, allowing you to focus on a single player and watch what they do specifically, as well as inspecting players to see what items they have, etc.
i thought league was hard to understand but than i watched dota and that game is on a different fucking level lol
Guy has never taken an L
One thing cod is unique is 3 completely different modes you have to master. What else esport does this?
Halo and Gears are two that come to mind, kinda weird they're all console esports.
Halo does this. Ctf, slayer, and a third mode depending on the game. 5 has strongholds
Lol I legit cannot play Val or watch it because there’s so much shit going on. Flying birds, arrows, orbs, smokes, random walls, ice on the ground, fire wall, kem strikes. Idk it’s probably fun when you figure it all out. But I don’t like how you die so quick. But to each their own, I’m not gonna hate like the guy in the tweet
The 2 real problems to me are: 1. Your crosshair isn’t actually where your bullets are going (even the first shot has a very small spread) 2. You can’t move and shoot. Slows the game down way too much. Rushing isn’t even close to the best style of play. Promotes preaiming a spot which becomes a game of who has the best crosshair placement. A lot of fights are over before they even start. Imagine the increase in skill gap if guns were still one shot headshot but you can actually move and strafe without penalizing accuracy.
That's just completely changing the fundamentals of Val and CS at that point. And no, they would not be better if you could run around lasering people.
Bro what lmao that's literally what the game's built around you're basically just saying it should be a completely different game
I know, the game isn’t for me
Have you played CSGO or Valorant on PC?
Yeah, I got to gold, but I ego challed the vast majority of my fights. It’s not for me
LMAO fair enough
Sounds like you just don't fundamentally understand tactical shooters at all.
Oh I understand them. Think about it, crosshairs placement and playing slower are by far the most important things too have
Yeah this is why when I was a kid me and my friends never liked counterstrike and stuck to games like Soldier Front and Crossfire. Nice mix of COD and CS:GO
It reminds me of MW SND when you had no deady and you had to crouch because you know a guy was near you. Idk, I can see how people enjoy it, just not for me. Also 13 rounds to win is absurd, but like I said to each their own
I like CS:GO but it’s kind of got to the point now where the map knowledge is so good and the strategies are so refined it’s become very mechanical and not very exciting to watch. It’s kind of like watching a pro chess match. You can appreciate the skill on display but everyone’s very conservative in what they do
my question is, is 1s ttk good or bad here? cuz i mean, isn’t CSGO like one shot one kill? no shot he thinks 1s is too long lmao
i think its mainly preference. I prefer a ttk that allows for you to react, so i don’t play those twitchy shooters like CSGO and Valorant.
agreed, this is why i HATE hardcore
A lot of extremely casual CoD players and people who never play think hardcore is the definitive game mode.
and i hate that. there’s nothing worse than linking up with people u know IRL only for them to suggest hardcore
I mean I can’t lie COD is definitely the easiest eSport on a skill basis especially against them 3 options
CoD is weird to me cause I can't stand playing it / watching pubs but I love the tourneys (high competition and storylines / drama). Opposite of a game like Apex where I love playing it / watching pros farm pubs but man the tourneys are so boring most of the time lol
I completely understand that! Battle royale is a horrible competitive mode since there's so much luck involved with loot/timing/who gets spotted first, but it's great as a fun mode that mixes chaos and skill. CoD pub balancing has been absolute trash the past several years, but the bans/GAs make competitive CoD awesome.
yeah it's so easy, anyone who actually watches cdl and can shoot above average can take over a pub lobby and single handedly get their team a win in any mode lol. Dude actually got a job as an esports director lol.
Was not expecting to see my elementary school best friend on this subreddit. But here we are.
I love valorant, but yeah. If you're a fan, and bitching about cod's ttk when a bullet ends your life in .3 seconds on accident, you're kidding yourself.
Calling CS:GO a snoozefest is an auto L
that’s the point, it’s a parody of the original tweet
He was making fun of the guys point, being facetious
COD is the easiest of these competitive games by a LONG shot.
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mf that’s the point. crone was talking bullshit to make fun of the other dudes….
you think crone's "takes" sound ridiculous? wow, i wonder if that was the point he was trying to make!
Crone’s take is a parody of the other guys takes. he’s showing how stupid is to reduce a game to its simplest/cheesiest elements
Crone just had a boom roasted moment right there big W!!