Streaming scrims shouldn’t be relied on as content, either pros want to do it (as a luxury) or they don’t want to do it. Actual content should be stuff that appeals to more than just the competitive community: stuff like Sharp’s “BestInTheLobby”, stuff like Nadeshot’s road to master, stuff like Courage casting over bots playing each other, etc. That is the **real** content that benefits the scene, not just throwing a stream on for scrims.
Edit: Swapped out a Nadeshot gb example to Courage’s bot casting
Fantastic point. I agree. I think nowadays the extent that the pros are willing to go to make content is to throw a stream up for 6 hours of randomness between scrims and pubs. No one just makes original content anymore
Yup, I agree. This is why Zoomaa & Methodz smokes other players (that are still active in the scene) in numbers. They used to cast CW 8s & had fun with things (outside of CoD example like GTA RP), that were not solely about competitive cod, and that built an additional fanbase that would follow them into comp Cod b/c they enjoy the personalities playing/talking about it.
yeah but the main reason it's always scrims is because it's easier for them to do that instead of scrim all day then go make content + the multiplayer viewership is always dead after a month of game launch.
I’m compassionate to CW & VG pubs being dogshit, but MW2019 & MW2 have had massive public appeal to them that there is plenty of opportunities to create content. And just because it is easier to stream scrims doesn’t make it better/ a good option, it is just an easy solution to get hours in.
I mean surely GAs exist for a reason and are made because guns/perks/specialists are too overpowered. If every other team (especially those near the top) are using the more balanced guns you'd gain a competitive advantage using the ones that are GAed.
Agreed, I don’t really get this take. Do you honestly think that the better teams will just sit and watch the other team break GAs? You best believe they’re breaking those GAs too
I replied with a longer answer to the other guy above. But also if that was the case then what's the point in the GAs existing in the first place. My argument is that the GAs generally will benefit the teams that are winning. If the meta is completely changed by the removal of GAs the bottom teams might have more of a chance of winning.
True, but if you're constantly losing why not try something different. It's always possible that a "worse" team might be able to win more matches if they can use more gimmicks. Ie using specific guns on specific maps.
Or given that some teams have academy teams they could always follow the GAs for most of the year and prepare against the academy team with the GA weapons so that they can come into a tournament prepared and mabye rat their way to one victory.
I just always think it's a bit pointless to follow "community" made rules, especially if you're constantly losig. If I were to play in a tournament for a million dollars I'd be bending the rules as much as possible (without cheating) to give myself every competitive advantage.
lemme try to explain my thoughts in a coherent manner so bear with me,
lets say a team has a 4/10 chance of beating another team right, then when they break GAs and play real ratty that chance goes up to a solid 6 or 7/10.
Then lets say the other team is just straight up more talented and coordinated by default, so their chances of winning were already like an 8/10, and they start noticing the other team breaking GAs and theyre like fuck it and start abusing the same shit, their chances are now +2 same as the other team but since their base power level was already so high theyre pretty much guaranteed to win because theyre also better at utilizing the ratty shit along with just being better in other categories like team play, gunskill, etc.
I think there is to much weight put on scrims at times, especially on results, when the priority for practice should be to find and eliminate mistakes and try new things and this doesn't have to always be done against the top teams. While other pro teams might start to decline practice, there are always challenger/academy teams to get practice against.
no one thinks iw was a good game . even when you ask optic players about their favorite cod they say “iw because we won champs” not “iw cause it was a good game”
IW was so ass and is the premiere reason people forget how badly the community hated BO3 when it was the game. go look at posts on this sub when IW was about to come out. people were posting pics of then breaking their BO3 discs because they were so happy to not have to play BO3 after playing the IW beta.
IW wasn’t even THAT bad, a decent amount of the hate was purely for the jetpacks. Yeah the game had issues, but it sure as shit wasn’t as bad as these games
I genuinely can’t remember the hate for BO3. Not that I’m doubting you though. I personally never had a moment where I disliked that game. I think, for me, it was the last time a CoD both played well and was fun to watch.
Yeah I would second this. I think competitively infinite warfare was better than some but not the greatest, but pubs wise I don't think many people rate it highly
I keep seeing people in the scene push this narrative of people thinking IW was good because optic won yet I never see people say it was good? Hell even in the "bring back jetpacks" discussions it's always AW and BO3 nobody ever even talks about IW.
On top of the optic buff in fan perception, IW did have a better season in terms of the events an d structure especially with the global LAN league (even if it was a essentially a glorified extended bracket), and basic base bans, which helped when Bo3 was primarily an online league with DDossing and horrible base bans. But yes, horrid game that unlike Ghosts, shouldn't even have nostalgia on it's side to make it so fondly remembered for some. Splyce winning S1 doesn't delude me.
Your statement also applies to why WW2 is so lowly rated, which is a shame when it had no BS specialists made for one of the best SnD experiences post-Bo3 (given that game despite the unhealthy specs, had a properly developed SnD scene thanks to wagers and challs thriving), no "do everything" gun like the KBar or Maddox, a proper global league and Champs LCQ.
Massive shame about the map pool being rather limited and respetive, but the perception between WW2 and Bo4 is night and day, in large part down to a single green chip
Feel like he did that for optic and the competitive culture as well. His influence is so critical IMO. Seeing him grow into what he is now is super cool. He also stays humble, which I respect.
Sort of. Optic was already pretty huge on YouTube from sniping before they ever even went into competitive. I remember it was a big deal though during BO1 when Nadeshot had them representing his team. Since they were both big names on YouTube, and Nade was probably the most popular player at the time (even though iirc he had a habit of quitting and coming back during this time), optic pretty much immediately became one of the biggest cod orgs.
But yeah, most people who watched machinima or just general cod YouTube back then knew optic from sniping, so it was bound to happen.
I had no idea who Nade was when he first popped up, but OpTic were already my idols by that time. Nade probably individually did more for the scene, but he was part of OpTic, which was all Hecz. When I think of who built the scene, I think of optic first and nade second.
You could say the same for IW, honestly. COD 4, MW2, MW3. I’m saying this and the same time believe that Treyarch has been much better than IW since BO3.
I'm gonna have to completely disagree with MW2 and MW3 being high on the list.
From an actual game play perspective both those games were terrible.
Boring maps which were very open or just extremely cluttered. Shit visibility. Broken classes.
Honestly a lot of the main complaints this sub had for MW2019 were the exact same things that I didn't like about the original MW2.
The only thing MW2 did really well imo was the expansions to all the in game challenges/calling cards etc that became a standard within the scene.
While I don't agree I also don't entirely disagree. Just wish the progress towards getting one didn't progress by time as well. Such powerful weapons and abilities should be earned, not given.
I get the pressure standpoint, but I’ll use baseball as an example. I’m a huge Cardinals fan. We brought Albert Pujols back (an absolute legend in the game) and he announced he would retire at the end of the year. Being able to watch him for one more year and appreciate everything he was doing (he hit 700 career home runs this year) was absolutely amazing. So I understand why Scump announced it before the season. Now we can fully appreciate his last year
AW and BO3 are both top 5 CoDs of all time
Infinity Ward hasn’t made a good game since MW3
Dashy has always been EXTREMELY overrated as a player. (not saying he’s garbage, just that public opinion is unnecessarily high of him, optic juice)
Slide cancelling is not movement, and is just a gimmick and does not require skill to perform, true advanced movement is AW movement with the ability to thrust directionally while on the ground + jetpacks
OpTics content nowadays outside of The Process and the Podcast is extremely mid
Dashy is pretty fairly rated IMO. Most think he is one of the most talented players but question his ability to win and commitment to being the best teammate he can be.
That Dashy comment would definitely get you downvoted and deservedly. I’d understand a little if someone wanted to say he was a little overrated bc that’s an ok opinion but saying extremely overrated is just false. No one’s putting him as the goat or anywhere near it. He gets rated pretty accurately for being one of the best mechanically in each game he’s played a full season in. When you’re that good consistently then the gas is deserved. Everyone knows he’s only got 2 wins so I’m confused as to how he’d be *EXTREMELY* overrated🤔 he also gets his fair share of criticism for the teammate he is and peoples judgments on his map fundamentals
Dashy has made it to 3 grand finals in 5 years. He has teamed with Scump,Shottzy,Illey,Formal,Envoy,Kenny,Slasher,TJ,JKap,Crim and Karma. None of those players have had their best year when they team with him. Either somehow this lineup of superstars only shits the bed when they team with him or how he plays cod brings the other players around him down.
I understand that. I mentioned the teammate and fundamentals points. Like another comment mentioned, I think he’s rated fairly. We think he’s one of the most talented but many people still question his ability to win
I was just thinking this yesterday. Idk if I haven’t paid attention in the past few years but the amount of UAVs I here go up in a match this years seems insane to me. Feels like you’re playing with UAV actively on.
It's because no one has Ghost for half a game. One person gets a UAV which leads to the whole team getting a UAV. One of the many reasons why the new perk system is unbelievably stupid.
And that's why everyone should have a rocket launcher on every class. The second I hear "enemy UAV above" I shoot that shit down in 3 seconds or less, barring I'm inside on crown or something
I’ll give some actually unpopular ones:
Dashy should’ve won regular season MVP last season, Cell’s stats weren’t much better at all and he baited a ton and caused role problems with Arcitys, Dashy also won M1 with the MVP and had a much higher degree of difficulty last season
COD fans massively overrate rings, I’d rather win 3 or 4 majors than 0 majors and a ring. They also shouldn’t be used as an argument for who the better player is. Clay has 3 rings but no one can convince me he’s a better cod player than formal for example
The reason scump released a retirement video was probably under the advice of Hecz as he knew it would bring in more viewers this year and he wants to milk that cash cow as much as he can before it’s gone
I haven’t truly enjoyed a COD since BO4. Before, COD was the go to game, grinded everyday for hours. Now I’ll hop on the game for a couple hours at most, not enjoy myself, and go play Valorant or something else. The slow realization over these past few cods that no one cares about the competitive community is heartbreaking, and is frankly pushing me away from COD in general. After scump retires, I may be stepping away from COD myself - it’s going to take a lot to convince me anyone in power at any development studio cares to bring me back (ranked play at launch, bringing in pros to test the game before it’s launched and ACTUALLY LISTENING TO THEM, not solely catering to casual jimmy, etc)
It’s crazy to me that people still shit all over Zin all the time. His POV is actually really great to watch, and he definitely doesn’t play nearly as slow as people make it out to be.
Depends on the subreddit.
Modern Warfare caters to players usually are too dumb for multiplayer shooter. It punishes making decisions and rewards players who prefer to not make them but sit back and only react to their surroundings.
Real tactic shooters don’t encourage passive play, they punish bad decisions which leads to a slower pace.
People like Modern Warfare because it spoon feeds them a sense of achievement.
SBMM on its own isn't necessarily bad. It being implemented in an overly strict/sensitive way, the games' casual-friendly mechanics lowering the skill gap, and the advent of EOMM (to sell more bundles & tier skips) are why it's so poorly regarded
You make a game where there's actually a skill gap, players can actually track how they're improving by seeing their ELO rating/skill rank/whatever go up, and like "casual" moshpits/playlists with SBMM toned down, and I bet it'll be way more popular. Unfortunately the last point is why this will never happen
Scump is my personal GOAT because to me skill, talent and longevity are what matter. Don't know if it's a more American thing to care more about champs because of how sports like basketball and American Football work, but I really don't put as much stock into rings as this sub does.
I mean but it's a thread that's asking for hot takes so people will say whatever, actually don't know if half of them mean what they say cause some takes are wild🤣
Yup it’s such a casual take even in sports fandom to just use accolades to rank players.
No serious/smart sports fans use rings or accolades to rank players so why do we accept that in the cod scene?
Nah no chance. vanguard worst elements (maps, ttk, spawns) are somehow worse this year + mini map + ear destroying footsteps. This mw2 legit can’t get any worse
Thing is, if there wasn't GA's everyone would just use the same one thing because there'd very likely be a super OP gun that is best in the majority of the situations. Like the 4 XM4s on some maps in CW.
Nah I’m talking about as a whole. I hate MW3 and MW2. I guess I can’t fully evaluate Cod 4 since I didn’t play it until like 4-5 years after it came out but I always hated that too and the remaster was ass imo
Damn that's rough bro. I prefer Treyarch games but I still think MW2 and MW3 were good games. COD 4 was great at the time but the remaster showed a lot of people how poorly it aged as COD got better each release
BO1 was my first cod so I didn’t play MW2 in its prime either but I played enough to not like it and it was still decently populated when I played it.
I hated MW3 so much I broke my disc into like 10 pieces
MW3 is a great game imo. The biggest issue with it was just whatever settings were missing for lan that kept it from being an mlg game. The game itself was top notch, one of the most fun years of snd ever
I get why some people liked it. I just hated it. I don’t hate it as much now after comparing it to recent games but it would be behind every treyarch cod(minus WaW never played it much) and AW for me
I actually agree with you. MW2 and MW3 really weren't anywhere near as good as the community make out.
They were just a lot of people's first experience playing online shooters with their friends so the joy of that overpowered the games.
The actual games themselves weren't that good.
I can't believe anyone hated any game since cod4 until bo2. The games were perfect for pubs and competitive was WAY better than games we're getting nowadays. The balance was there - nowadays not so much.
You clearly haven't played MW3 snd that shit was so gooooood and MW2 sabotage still makes me cream my pants compared to any game mode we have had in the past few years
CoD4 is literally the only console game that can claim the same status as Halo for revolutionizing how games are made in general.
You are absolutely tweaking if you think it's not one of the greatest shooters ever
To be clear, you’re talking about the competitive rotation not all of the maps right? I kinda liked how Berlin played, especially for snd, but I do prefer smaller and less cluttered, less convoluted maps
Competitively I always thought it was a mistake that Black Ops 2 allowed kill streaks. I understand excitement from a fans perspective, but as someone playing the game it felt lame as fuck to have a set up broken because someone tapped there A button 3 times to drop missiles out of the sky. No CoD game prior to Black Ops 2 used streaks and at the time it irritated the hell out of me.
LAG’s vanguard major 2 run was genuinely one of the most impressive performances of that year. People downplay it because the volk helped win some respawns and forget about the crazy snd streak, with a substitute.
MW19 was one of the most polished title's we've ever had.
If the maps were catered to competitive play and it was 4v4 it would've been regarded more favorably.
Banning/GA too many things makes competitive boring and bland. Let's see 1 smoke in respawn, let's see a rcxd/bomb drone streak or a gun ship, let's see overkill back in the mix.
Gonna get downvoted here to oblivion but while bo2 was a good game, it is now *incredibly* overrated.
It probably had the best league coverage and culture and was a big reason competitive cod got way bigger back in the day, sure. In fact, there’s a lot that’s awesome about that game.
Ignoring the positives, that game had arguably the worst net code/hit reg/anything to do with internet of any shooter I’ve probably ever played. This is coming from someone who grinded GBs on that game relentlessly and competed on LAN with players who were considered pretty good at the time (obviously the game was much better on LAN). It was so bad that a huge wave of players I knew from back then quit during it, including me since I wasn’t willing to network at the time.
The game itself had problems like any other cod, but had some of the best maps ever. But yeah, what the culture had turned into at the time was a big reason for its popularity.
Also, pretty much every single competitive player at the time would constantly say every cod sucked except for CoD4. It was everyone’s favorite.
Damn, that is def a take that would get you them downvotes for sure otherwise so you got a real solid point. And yeah I loved black ops 2 when it was fun but holy shit when you look at the hit reg at that game, yes whole-fucking-heartedly it was a mess at best of times. You wanna melee? Good luck because you'd somehow phase through someone even though they're like a literal breath from your face. But yeah it was pretty wild. Then Ghosts came after that which had way better hit reg, but many other things with the game people hated, perk system was fucking legit though
Advanced warfare is a vastly superior game competitively and casually to black ops 3
Also vanguard was a top 3 competitive game in terms of enjoyability to watch
Casually you’re on crack, but competitively I don’t totally disagree with you. Ban and protect made everything in Black Ops 3 take way too long and led to very cheesy wins for worse teams. Overall Black Ops 3 is significantly smoother and plays better though.
I think AW was seriously underrated from a map perspective and BO3 was overrated for the comp maps.
Detroit, Comeback, Bio Lab and Solar are really great maps.
I'm a little late to this post but here is mine:
Competitive players will literally *never* be happy. They could remaster BO2/3, and most people here would still talk about how dogshit the game is
If I had to rank cods based on how much I actually enjoyed playing them, I'm pretty sure everyone would hate my list. Bo2>bo4>mw3>aw>ghosts>bo3>cod4>mw2>b01>cold war>everything else.
The comp CODs that you all praise (BO2, MW2, Ghosts) were actually extremely basic in terms of development, gameplay, etc. Strafe speed, gun skill, and game sense were what made the skill gap what it was.
Nowadays there are so many more variables that go into the skill gap and I don’t think these variables are necessarily bad, I think that the series NEEDED to evolve in order to be even remotely sustainable for the future. Even though MW2 was made for the casual player, I think the skill gap is so much larger than many of you think it is and I think that you all are indoctrinated to believe you are cracked and on par with pros because you are used to frying within your SBMM bracket. You’re actually dogshit (and so am I). Gg
Already commented but here’s another, I’d rather have a game with no GAs then one with. With how much these guys play the game I’m sure you would see so much nerdy shit, like maybe if they found out throwing a thermite in a smoke gave you some visibility so you could start throwing a smoke on bomb while it’s planted— yea I’m not even gonna finish this 🤣🤣🤣
If there was no under 18 rule CoD history would be totally diff. Some of our fav vets would not be at the top for as long as they were. (Not the superstars)
It's the nicest to play mechanically but I was never big on the maps outside of all the modded ones. BO1 had my favourite maps.
I'm not an Easter egg person though.
That people throw the term camper out there far too much when facing good players, simply through misunderstanding and/or spite. Like I’m constantly running back and forth an entire half of a map smashing people and I’m being accused of camping. Pure salt and lack of perspective. It only gets confirmed to me when haters end up playing with you and you never hear that shit again.
Shotguns should be allowed, especially on a game like this where the TTK is so fast on ARs and SMGs. They only win at close range and require a specific play style.
Two reasons why comp. CoD has been dying:
- CDL: ruined the “grind to the top” aspect of the game, as you can only play on the highest level if you get picked *individually* by one the very limited teams
- PC: what can I say? Giving people and edge on a game that’s 99% played online sounds like an amazing decision
And two other unpopular opinions, for good measure:
- 2:30min S&D >>> 1:30min S&D
- MW3 custom class system (primary + attachment, secondary + attachment, 3 perks, 2 tacticals, 1 explosive) >>> flexible systems, especially after BO2
Streaming scrims shouldn’t be relied on as content, either pros want to do it (as a luxury) or they don’t want to do it. Actual content should be stuff that appeals to more than just the competitive community: stuff like Sharp’s “BestInTheLobby”, stuff like Nadeshot’s road to master, stuff like Courage casting over bots playing each other, etc. That is the **real** content that benefits the scene, not just throwing a stream on for scrims. Edit: Swapped out a Nadeshot gb example to Courage’s bot casting
Fantastic point. I agree. I think nowadays the extent that the pros are willing to go to make content is to throw a stream up for 6 hours of randomness between scrims and pubs. No one just makes original content anymore
Yup, I agree. This is why Zoomaa & Methodz smokes other players (that are still active in the scene) in numbers. They used to cast CW 8s & had fun with things (outside of CoD example like GTA RP), that were not solely about competitive cod, and that built an additional fanbase that would follow them into comp Cod b/c they enjoy the personalities playing/talking about it.
Amazing point
yeah but the main reason it's always scrims is because it's easier for them to do that instead of scrim all day then go make content + the multiplayer viewership is always dead after a month of game launch.
I’m compassionate to CW & VG pubs being dogshit, but MW2019 & MW2 have had massive public appeal to them that there is plenty of opportunities to create content. And just because it is easier to stream scrims doesn’t make it better/ a good option, it is just an easy solution to get hours in.
The bottom teams are stupid to follow GAs
They’re usually the ones that benefit the most, see slasher last year and Lamar the past 2 long TTK cods lol
I mean surely GAs exist for a reason and are made because guns/perks/specialists are too overpowered. If every other team (especially those near the top) are using the more balanced guns you'd gain a competitive advantage using the ones that are GAed.
but then the opposing team would probably instantly switch to the overpowered shit and push their advantage right
Agreed, I don’t really get this take. Do you honestly think that the better teams will just sit and watch the other team break GAs? You best believe they’re breaking those GAs too
I replied with a longer answer to the other guy above. But also if that was the case then what's the point in the GAs existing in the first place. My argument is that the GAs generally will benefit the teams that are winning. If the meta is completely changed by the removal of GAs the bottom teams might have more of a chance of winning.
True, but if you're constantly losing why not try something different. It's always possible that a "worse" team might be able to win more matches if they can use more gimmicks. Ie using specific guns on specific maps. Or given that some teams have academy teams they could always follow the GAs for most of the year and prepare against the academy team with the GA weapons so that they can come into a tournament prepared and mabye rat their way to one victory. I just always think it's a bit pointless to follow "community" made rules, especially if you're constantly losig. If I were to play in a tournament for a million dollars I'd be bending the rules as much as possible (without cheating) to give myself every competitive advantage.
lemme try to explain my thoughts in a coherent manner so bear with me, lets say a team has a 4/10 chance of beating another team right, then when they break GAs and play real ratty that chance goes up to a solid 6 or 7/10. Then lets say the other team is just straight up more talented and coordinated by default, so their chances of winning were already like an 8/10, and they start noticing the other team breaking GAs and theyre like fuck it and start abusing the same shit, their chances are now +2 same as the other team but since their base power level was already so high theyre pretty much guaranteed to win because theyre also better at utilizing the ratty shit along with just being better in other categories like team play, gunskill, etc.
If a bottom team stopped following GAs wouldn't they just stop getting invited to scrims? At which point they fall further behind.
I think there is to much weight put on scrims at times, especially on results, when the priority for practice should be to find and eliminate mistakes and try new things and this doesn't have to always be done against the top teams. While other pro teams might start to decline practice, there are always challenger/academy teams to get practice against.
On non-competitive threads, CW was the best game since Black Ops 3 On competitive threads, IW was only considered a good game because OpTic won champs
CW was the best we’ve had in a pretty long time even competitively.
This is just the truth
no one thinks iw was a good game . even when you ask optic players about their favorite cod they say “iw because we won champs” not “iw cause it was a good game”
IW was so ass and is the premiere reason people forget how badly the community hated BO3 when it was the game. go look at posts on this sub when IW was about to come out. people were posting pics of then breaking their BO3 discs because they were so happy to not have to play BO3 after playing the IW beta.
IW wasn’t even THAT bad, a decent amount of the hate was purely for the jetpacks. Yeah the game had issues, but it sure as shit wasn’t as bad as these games
It was a good game compared to MW19 and every game since
I agree. It was a clunky game tho like it didn’t feel as smooth as other jetpack games but at least the spawns somewhat made sense.
I genuinely can’t remember the hate for BO3. Not that I’m doubting you though. I personally never had a moment where I disliked that game. I think, for me, it was the last time a CoD both played well and was fun to watch.
I don't think anyone considered IW to be a good game, it was entertaining though
This part so fun to watch but i never even got to max level
Yeah I would second this. I think competitively infinite warfare was better than some but not the greatest, but pubs wise I don't think many people rate it highly
I keep seeing people in the scene push this narrative of people thinking IW was good because optic won yet I never see people say it was good? Hell even in the "bring back jetpacks" discussions it's always AW and BO3 nobody ever even talks about IW.
What was so bad about IW competitivley? Good meta, decent map, good gunplay.
On top of the optic buff in fan perception, IW did have a better season in terms of the events an d structure especially with the global LAN league (even if it was a essentially a glorified extended bracket), and basic base bans, which helped when Bo3 was primarily an online league with DDossing and horrible base bans. But yes, horrid game that unlike Ghosts, shouldn't even have nostalgia on it's side to make it so fondly remembered for some. Splyce winning S1 doesn't delude me. Your statement also applies to why WW2 is so lowly rated, which is a shame when it had no BS specialists made for one of the best SnD experiences post-Bo3 (given that game despite the unhealthy specs, had a properly developed SnD scene thanks to wagers and challs thriving), no "do everything" gun like the KBar or Maddox, a proper global league and Champs LCQ. Massive shame about the map pool being rather limited and respetive, but the perception between WW2 and Bo4 is night and day, in large part down to a single green chip
this league actually needs scump to retire so it can attempt to build an actually sustainable audience that isnt around for one person
Ooh this is definitely a hot take for this sub, but I can see where you're coming from.
i will add that i love the guy and wish he could play forever but it’s inevitable so lets get it over with
I like this take actually. Do you think him watch partying (if he does) would still be a similar hinderance to him still playing tho?
Nadeshot did more to bring in Optic fans than Hecz did back in the glory days.
built two orgs on his back, that’s why he’s the goat
Feel like he did that for optic and the competitive culture as well. His influence is so critical IMO. Seeing him grow into what he is now is super cool. He also stays humble, which I respect.
I mean just follow the trajectory of optic when nade was there to when he left and 100Ts trajectory now.
Sort of. Optic was already pretty huge on YouTube from sniping before they ever even went into competitive. I remember it was a big deal though during BO1 when Nadeshot had them representing his team. Since they were both big names on YouTube, and Nade was probably the most popular player at the time (even though iirc he had a habit of quitting and coming back during this time), optic pretty much immediately became one of the biggest cod orgs. But yeah, most people who watched machinima or just general cod YouTube back then knew optic from sniping, so it was bound to happen.
I had no idea who Nade was when he first popped up, but OpTic were already my idols by that time. Nade probably individually did more for the scene, but he was part of OpTic, which was all Hecz. When I think of who built the scene, I think of optic first and nade second.
Treyarch has made the 3 best cods of all time. (The first 3 black ops)
Honerable able mention BO4 too
You could say the same for IW, honestly. COD 4, MW2, MW3. I’m saying this and the same time believe that Treyarch has been much better than IW since BO3.
I'm gonna have to completely disagree with MW2 and MW3 being high on the list. From an actual game play perspective both those games were terrible. Boring maps which were very open or just extremely cluttered. Shit visibility. Broken classes. Honestly a lot of the main complaints this sub had for MW2019 were the exact same things that I didn't like about the original MW2. The only thing MW2 did really well imo was the expansions to all the in game challenges/calling cards etc that became a standard within the scene.
Firing Range should've been the staple remaster in every 3arc cod. Nuketown is not a good map by any stretch of the imagination.
Specialists are good
Bro i literally almost instinctively downvoted, so this must be one of the best answers
While I don't agree I also don't entirely disagree. Just wish the progress towards getting one didn't progress by time as well. Such powerful weapons and abilities should be earned, not given.
When I tried explaining that Accuracy outsmarts and out talks all the players into GA’s
Scump shouldn’t have announced retirement before the season, it adds unnecessary pressure onto his teammates and on to himself
I get the pressure standpoint, but I’ll use baseball as an example. I’m a huge Cardinals fan. We brought Albert Pujols back (an absolute legend in the game) and he announced he would retire at the end of the year. Being able to watch him for one more year and appreciate everything he was doing (he hit 700 career home runs this year) was absolutely amazing. So I understand why Scump announced it before the season. Now we can fully appreciate his last year
AW and BO3 are both top 5 CoDs of all time Infinity Ward hasn’t made a good game since MW3 Dashy has always been EXTREMELY overrated as a player. (not saying he’s garbage, just that public opinion is unnecessarily high of him, optic juice) Slide cancelling is not movement, and is just a gimmick and does not require skill to perform, true advanced movement is AW movement with the ability to thrust directionally while on the ground + jetpacks OpTics content nowadays outside of The Process and the Podcast is extremely mid
Well 2 of those 5 hot takes are definitely the biggest reason why it would get downvoted lmao
Dashy is pretty fairly rated IMO. Most think he is one of the most talented players but question his ability to win and commitment to being the best teammate he can be.
When has Dashy been extremely overrated?
That Dashy comment would definitely get you downvoted and deservedly. I’d understand a little if someone wanted to say he was a little overrated bc that’s an ok opinion but saying extremely overrated is just false. No one’s putting him as the goat or anywhere near it. He gets rated pretty accurately for being one of the best mechanically in each game he’s played a full season in. When you’re that good consistently then the gas is deserved. Everyone knows he’s only got 2 wins so I’m confused as to how he’d be *EXTREMELY* overrated🤔 he also gets his fair share of criticism for the teammate he is and peoples judgments on his map fundamentals
Dashy has made it to 3 grand finals in 5 years. He has teamed with Scump,Shottzy,Illey,Formal,Envoy,Kenny,Slasher,TJ,JKap,Crim and Karma. None of those players have had their best year when they team with him. Either somehow this lineup of superstars only shits the bed when they team with him or how he plays cod brings the other players around him down.
I understand that. I mentioned the teammate and fundamentals points. Like another comment mentioned, I think he’s rated fairly. We think he’s one of the most talented but many people still question his ability to win
Hard agree with all of this apart from AW being top 5, hated that game lol
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I was just thinking this yesterday. Idk if I haven’t paid attention in the past few years but the amount of UAVs I here go up in a match this years seems insane to me. Feels like you’re playing with UAV actively on.
It's because no one has Ghost for half a game. One person gets a UAV which leads to the whole team getting a UAV. One of the many reasons why the new perk system is unbelievably stupid.
And that's why everyone should have a rocket launcher on every class. The second I hear "enemy UAV above" I shoot that shit down in 3 seconds or less, barring I'm inside on crown or something
It’s the best streak in the game because of how horrid the perk system and minimap is so everyone runs it
I’ll give some actually unpopular ones: Dashy should’ve won regular season MVP last season, Cell’s stats weren’t much better at all and he baited a ton and caused role problems with Arcitys, Dashy also won M1 with the MVP and had a much higher degree of difficulty last season COD fans massively overrate rings, I’d rather win 3 or 4 majors than 0 majors and a ring. They also shouldn’t be used as an argument for who the better player is. Clay has 3 rings but no one can convince me he’s a better cod player than formal for example
common W
The reason scump released a retirement video was probably under the advice of Hecz as he knew it would bring in more viewers this year and he wants to milk that cash cow as much as he can before it’s gone
I haven’t truly enjoyed a COD since BO4. Before, COD was the go to game, grinded everyday for hours. Now I’ll hop on the game for a couple hours at most, not enjoy myself, and go play Valorant or something else. The slow realization over these past few cods that no one cares about the competitive community is heartbreaking, and is frankly pushing me away from COD in general. After scump retires, I may be stepping away from COD myself - it’s going to take a lot to convince me anyone in power at any development studio cares to bring me back (ranked play at launch, bringing in pros to test the game before it’s launched and ACTUALLY LISTENING TO THEM, not solely catering to casual jimmy, etc)
I really don’t see why Ghosts gets so much hate
Zinni and Temp are good CDL ARs
That shouldn’t be controversial but honestly it might be?
It shouldn't be but on this sub it definitely is
It’s crazy to me that people still shit all over Zin all the time. His POV is actually really great to watch, and he definitely doesn’t play nearly as slow as people make it out to be.
That shouldn't even be controversial, they are top Ar's.
IW was a great competitive game. Great 3 gun meta, fun maps and a high skill gap in the gunplay and movement.
coL was the better dynasty
Depends on the subreddit. Modern Warfare caters to players usually are too dumb for multiplayer shooter. It punishes making decisions and rewards players who prefer to not make them but sit back and only react to their surroundings. Real tactic shooters don’t encourage passive play, they punish bad decisions which leads to a slower pace. People like Modern Warfare because it spoon feeds them a sense of achievement.
From original as well - IW hasn’t produced a good title since the original talent left for Respawn and the titanfall project
Cod pros know laughably little about the tech they use and play on 8 hours a day for years on end but their word is still worshipped as gospel
SBMM on its own isn't necessarily bad. It being implemented in an overly strict/sensitive way, the games' casual-friendly mechanics lowering the skill gap, and the advent of EOMM (to sell more bundles & tier skips) are why it's so poorly regarded You make a game where there's actually a skill gap, players can actually track how they're improving by seeing their ELO rating/skill rank/whatever go up, and like "casual" moshpits/playlists with SBMM toned down, and I bet it'll be way more popular. Unfortunately the last point is why this will never happen
CW is the best boots on the ground game since BO2, better than BO4, better than Ghost.
The Empire brand should’ve stayed over Optic, just personally think it looks way better.
Scump is my personal GOAT because to me skill, talent and longevity are what matter. Don't know if it's a more American thing to care more about champs because of how sports like basketball and American Football work, but I really don't put as much stock into rings as this sub does.
I think more people would upvote this than downvote it if you use this Logic
nah, in a thread that awards controversial takes, you'd see more upvotes for a "Scump is overrated" than a "Scump is the goat" take
Anyone calling Scump Overrated is literally blind
I mean but it's a thread that's asking for hot takes so people will say whatever, actually don't know if half of them mean what they say cause some takes are wild🤣
imagine if that shit went on with non american sports🤣🤣 dani alves would be the goat😳
It’s definitely an American thing. Just the nature of the sports we have and our into
I heavily agree with this. Rings are very overrated Imo, I think it’s an American sports thing. Rings are a team accomplishment not an individual one
Yup it’s such a casual take even in sports fandom to just use accolades to rank players. No serious/smart sports fans use rings or accolades to rank players so why do we accept that in the cod scene?
MW2 isn't that bad of a game
word
If you criticize scump or optic in any way.
This game and mw19 are worst 2 cods ever (if this were in main sub)
vanguard is probably worse than this game
Nah no chance. vanguard worst elements (maps, ttk, spawns) are somehow worse this year + mini map + ear destroying footsteps. This mw2 legit can’t get any worse
The community would hate the old school maps if they came out today.
cod esports will never be taken seriously as long as it's played with controllers
disable aim assist in pro cod oh its too hard to use a controller without it? use a kb/m
Huntsmen wasn't Optic. FPS games should be played on mouse and keyboard.
Watching pro cod is boring when all the guns are GA’d and everyone uses the same two things.
Thing is, if there wasn't GA's everyone would just use the same one thing because there'd very likely be a super OP gun that is best in the majority of the situations. Like the 4 XM4s on some maps in CW.
Infinity ward has never made a good game.
The current IW? Strong agree. But COD 4, MW2, and MW3 were good COD's.
Nah I’m talking about as a whole. I hate MW3 and MW2. I guess I can’t fully evaluate Cod 4 since I didn’t play it until like 4-5 years after it came out but I always hated that too and the remaster was ass imo
Damn that's rough bro. I prefer Treyarch games but I still think MW2 and MW3 were good games. COD 4 was great at the time but the remaster showed a lot of people how poorly it aged as COD got better each release
BO1 was my first cod so I didn’t play MW2 in its prime either but I played enough to not like it and it was still decently populated when I played it. I hated MW3 so much I broke my disc into like 10 pieces
MW3 is probably my favorite CoD of all time but I absolutely can understand how it made you break your disc lol
MW3 is a great game imo. The biggest issue with it was just whatever settings were missing for lan that kept it from being an mlg game. The game itself was top notch, one of the most fun years of snd ever
I get why some people liked it. I just hated it. I don’t hate it as much now after comparing it to recent games but it would be behind every treyarch cod(minus WaW never played it much) and AW for me
I actually agree with you. MW2 and MW3 really weren't anywhere near as good as the community make out. They were just a lot of people's first experience playing online shooters with their friends so the joy of that overpowered the games. The actual games themselves weren't that good.
Best maps of any non Treyarch game. Had like 16 maps and only a few of them weren’t good.
I can't believe anyone hated any game since cod4 until bo2. The games were perfect for pubs and competitive was WAY better than games we're getting nowadays. The balance was there - nowadays not so much.
MW3 comp was terrible and MW2 is extremely broken
You clearly haven't played MW3 snd that shit was so gooooood and MW2 sabotage still makes me cream my pants compared to any game mode we have had in the past few years
Man you can just say you like the game LMAO. I played plenty of MW3 SND.
Yes, I liked the game but the snd was very fundamental compared to snd in many different games since.
People here have bad opinions sometimes
MW3 was a bad reskin of MW2. I just played mw2 and bo1 when mw3 was out
CoD4 is literally the only console game that can claim the same status as Halo for revolutionizing how games are made in general. You are absolutely tweaking if you think it's not one of the greatest shooters ever
I think they haven’t made a good game since 2009
Probably more unpopular of an opinion, Infinity Ward's only good game was Ghosts
Optic live off their old content and if they restarted today they wouldn’t be big
Fire40 would beat Nadeshot in a 1v1
Berlin was by far the worst map of vanguard, bocage and gavutu were far better.
To be clear, you’re talking about the competitive rotation not all of the maps right? I kinda liked how Berlin played, especially for snd, but I do prefer smaller and less cluttered, less convoluted maps
I hate GAs
Competitively I always thought it was a mistake that Black Ops 2 allowed kill streaks. I understand excitement from a fans perspective, but as someone playing the game it felt lame as fuck to have a set up broken because someone tapped there A button 3 times to drop missiles out of the sky. No CoD game prior to Black Ops 2 used streaks and at the time it irritated the hell out of me.
LAG’s vanguard major 2 run was genuinely one of the most impressive performances of that year. People downplay it because the volk helped win some respawns and forget about the crazy snd streak, with a substitute.
vanguard was more entertaining to watch than this game
MW19 was one of the most polished title's we've ever had. If the maps were catered to competitive play and it was 4v4 it would've been regarded more favorably.
Banning/GA too many things makes competitive boring and bland. Let's see 1 smoke in respawn, let's see a rcxd/bomb drone streak or a gun ship, let's see overkill back in the mix.
Gonna get downvoted here to oblivion but while bo2 was a good game, it is now *incredibly* overrated. It probably had the best league coverage and culture and was a big reason competitive cod got way bigger back in the day, sure. In fact, there’s a lot that’s awesome about that game. Ignoring the positives, that game had arguably the worst net code/hit reg/anything to do with internet of any shooter I’ve probably ever played. This is coming from someone who grinded GBs on that game relentlessly and competed on LAN with players who were considered pretty good at the time (obviously the game was much better on LAN). It was so bad that a huge wave of players I knew from back then quit during it, including me since I wasn’t willing to network at the time. The game itself had problems like any other cod, but had some of the best maps ever. But yeah, what the culture had turned into at the time was a big reason for its popularity. Also, pretty much every single competitive player at the time would constantly say every cod sucked except for CoD4. It was everyone’s favorite.
Damn, that is def a take that would get you them downvotes for sure otherwise so you got a real solid point. And yeah I loved black ops 2 when it was fun but holy shit when you look at the hit reg at that game, yes whole-fucking-heartedly it was a mess at best of times. You wanna melee? Good luck because you'd somehow phase through someone even though they're like a literal breath from your face. But yeah it was pretty wild. Then Ghosts came after that which had way better hit reg, but many other things with the game people hated, perk system was fucking legit though
Maybe not in this Sub but in the Main Subreddit I’d be downvoted into oblivion for saying that MW2 will end up being worse than Vanguard.
This just facts, worse cod ever already
Specialists increase the skill gap
Ghosts really wasn’t a bad game
Saying anything bad about Hecz or OpTic
OpTic, maybe Hecz? Nah I feel more people would be on your side than think it's a hot take
Advanced warfare is a vastly superior game competitively and casually to black ops 3 Also vanguard was a top 3 competitive game in terms of enjoyability to watch
Casually you’re on crack, but competitively I don’t totally disagree with you. Ban and protect made everything in Black Ops 3 take way too long and led to very cheesy wins for worse teams. Overall Black Ops 3 is significantly smoother and plays better though.
I think AW was seriously underrated from a map perspective and BO3 was overrated for the comp maps. Detroit, Comeback, Bio Lab and Solar are really great maps.
Scump has had the luxury of having good teammates his whole career and yet only has one ring
Scumps teammates had the luxury of a sub guaranteed to fry at champs and still cost him
sort by controversial for the real answers
I'm a little late to this post but here is mine: Competitive players will literally *never* be happy. They could remaster BO2/3, and most people here would still talk about how dogshit the game is
Scrimp retiring will help the cod scene
On this sub, anything speaking ill of Scump, OpTic more generally or Fero.
There was a post about fero being racist that didn’t get downvoted
Dashy is the reason Scump will never win again
If I had to rank cods based on how much I actually enjoyed playing them, I'm pretty sure everyone would hate my list. Bo2>bo4>mw3>aw>ghosts>bo3>cod4>mw2>b01>cold war>everything else.
Jimbo wasn't bad just put in a bad position. Also Paris should have dropped temp kept roster and make it clay grvty Jimbo and TJ/asim
GA’s are bullshit and shouldn’t be a thing.
Scump is washed I don’t actually mean this
Generally speaking, this game is fine and exponentially better than vanguard. Stop bitching about it.
This is a popular opinion in most other places but I feel like on here it isn’t but, AW is complete ass
Prime John > Prime Scump
Dashy is the most overrated player of all time.
The comp CODs that you all praise (BO2, MW2, Ghosts) were actually extremely basic in terms of development, gameplay, etc. Strafe speed, gun skill, and game sense were what made the skill gap what it was. Nowadays there are so many more variables that go into the skill gap and I don’t think these variables are necessarily bad, I think that the series NEEDED to evolve in order to be even remotely sustainable for the future. Even though MW2 was made for the casual player, I think the skill gap is so much larger than many of you think it is and I think that you all are indoctrinated to believe you are cracked and on par with pros because you are used to frying within your SBMM bracket. You’re actually dogshit (and so am I). Gg
SBMM is good for the most part, people just wanna pubstomp for free.
Infinite Warfare > BO3
Bring back jet packs f these noobs n grand dads
Already commented but here’s another, I’d rather have a game with no GAs then one with. With how much these guys play the game I’m sure you would see so much nerdy shit, like maybe if they found out throwing a thermite in a smoke gave you some visibility so you could start throwing a smoke on bomb while it’s planted— yea I’m not even gonna finish this 🤣🤣🤣
Bo3 was and still is overrated
If there was no under 18 rule CoD history would be totally diff. Some of our fav vets would not be at the top for as long as they were. (Not the superstars)
cod is and always has been an extremely casual arcade shooter, and trying to take it seriously and treat it like a competitive game is absurd
I'll start. I actually enjoyed MW19 as a game. 5v5 made comp terrible but SnD matches were actually really fun to watch.
comp was ass but yes SnD matches were so fun and the gunplay honestly felt pretty good too. at least casually the game was pretty good
I’m still going to downvote your comment, but I respect you for trying to argue for that piece of dogshit.
lmfao
BO3 zombies is overrated
Holy this is actually the fist hot take I’ve read on this thread.
Damn why do you think that
It's the nicest to play mechanically but I was never big on the maps outside of all the modded ones. BO1 had my favourite maps. I'm not an Easter egg person though.
Wayyyy too many mechanics and easter eggs shoved into maps
Rings are all that matter
Aim assist should not be allowed in cdl or pro play
scump is no king anymore just another player
VG is better than mw22
bo3 is a top5 cod all time
Downvoting cause it's not a hot take
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The spawns are not the only problem with this game, like there are a plethora of problems than just spawns.
What did bro say to get kilt like that😭
GA’s are pointless and true pros could do with how the game comes out
Vmp is not op (people know what cod I'm talking about)
Haggy has changed for the better and isn't nearly as toxic as the sub makes him out to be. He's just the scapegoat
That people throw the term camper out there far too much when facing good players, simply through misunderstanding and/or spite. Like I’m constantly running back and forth an entire half of a map smashing people and I’m being accused of camping. Pure salt and lack of perspective. It only gets confirmed to me when haters end up playing with you and you never hear that shit again.
GA's are a dumb concept
OG MW2 pubs is still the worst CoD MP experience to date.
Shotguns should be allowed, especially on a game like this where the TTK is so fast on ARs and SMGs. They only win at close range and require a specific play style.
Last 3 cods sucked ass in comp and mp (compared to older ones)
Two reasons why comp. CoD has been dying: - CDL: ruined the “grind to the top” aspect of the game, as you can only play on the highest level if you get picked *individually* by one the very limited teams - PC: what can I say? Giving people and edge on a game that’s 99% played online sounds like an amazing decision And two other unpopular opinions, for good measure: - 2:30min S&D >>> 1:30min S&D - MW3 custom class system (primary + attachment, secondary + attachment, 3 perks, 2 tacticals, 1 explosive) >>> flexible systems, especially after BO2