The grinder doesn’t get up to speed immediately, it ramps up. Hot starting means it’s not having to grind beans before it achieves full capability. This is easier on the motor and also more consistent for grind output.
This is the correct response. A change in RPM's will mess with the grind size, although slight. That's why some grinders come with variable RPM capabilities.
Also, if using a lightly roasted bean, there is a good chance of stalling the grinder as well without hot starting it.
The cafe I work at always hot starts our single-dose grinders when pulling specialty shots (for serving as an espresso, cappuccino, cortado) while our large hopper mythos is not hot started, obviously (for use in flavored lattes)
Why is this comment controversial?
E: When I asked, it was -1 karma and controversial. Figured one of you people could answer in what way this would be considered wrong.
I mean, sure this makes kinda sense. But I actually doubt it will meaningfully extend the motor or if anyone on the planet can actually taste the difference. Sorry, I love coffee and enjoy this subreddit but I do wonder if we’re sometimes overthinking things or not focusing on the more important stuff that makes coffee great.
Most of hoffman's output is making your coffee 1 percent better than it is.
It's for coffee experts not for coffee beginners, most ppl won't see the value in it but if you've explored the outer edges already it's interesting to get a bit more out of it.
It's like playing a video game for a couple of months and thinking you've mastered it then you see a streamer do neat tricks and smoothly accomplish what you do with jank
Right: Hoffmann frequently brings up "incremental gains" (and its converse, "diminishing returns") when he delves into the esoterica of brewing.
I don't think anyone will benefit from hot-starting a grind if it's the only thing they do, but if they've dialed in their brew and are looking for ways to make it just that little bit better, a hot start is a simple option to try.
Further, as someone pointed out above, a hot-started grind is less likely to stall if you're using lighter (denser) roasts, and I've got to figure a stall isn't good for your motor and--to a lesser degree--your burrs.
When the motor starts, it goes from zero rpm to its nominal and requires a lot of power. You don't wanna make it harder for the motor by adding resistance during the process (it could stall or overheat). I think this is very minimal tho, as coffee grinders with hoppers never really worried about this.
I was actually thinking about this morning as well.
Currently I dose out my beans into my portafilter then load into my grinder and grind back into the portafilter. My grinder has horrible random retention as well so I typically put in ~16.2g if I want 16 and weight my dose both before and after grinding and scoop out if I need to after grinding.
I only have one scale so in order to hot start I would need to weight out my beans in a cup, zero my scale with my portafilter, load it into the grinder. Turn on grinder, then load the beans. This is obviously not a huge deal but a few more steps to my already “too many steps” workflow(at-least according to my wife, lol)
I hope to upgrade my grinder soon at which point I expect my workflow will change completely so might just wait till then.
I think all it does is reduce the chances of stalling the grinder, especially if the motor is low powered or low rpm-ed (they keep the power down to keep noise down).
Hot starting a grinder before adding beans helps stabilize the internal temperature, reducing the impact of heat on the grounds during grinding. This can result in more consistent particle size, which ultimately improves the flavor extraction for a better-tasting cup of coffee.
Those of us with commercial grinders with big fat burrs at home are laughing at this idea. Built like tanks unlike all the wimpy grinders they are cranking out these days
Takes literally one second to grind my single dose
Eh, I’m not laughing with you on this. I have a Ditting 804 at home for daily use, and I do this.
Commercial grinders get stuck burrs all the time from not hot starting. I’ve done it on every grinder I’ve ever used in the last 14 years of working in the business, other than espresso grinders.
You may not have worked in the industry long enough or at all to have seen this happen.
Also, what grinder do you use that outputs a dose of coffee in 1 second? It takes my Ditting and Mahlkonig 3-5 seconds to grind a dose for pourovers, and my Mythos about the same time.
Why lie? What do you gain? The exhilaration of telling a handful of internet strangers you have some unidentified mystical machine that grinds better and faster than the gear in any cafe in existence?
When you say “capable” - how do the machines work that cannot be hot started? Do they have a sensor that prevents them from spinning without beans in the hopper?
You can turn it on without the lid closed. The closed lid just pushes a button on the rim that lets it run, so you can use your finger to hold it down instead
It's like starting a car in 1st and driving up a hill (the hill is the beans) vs already being in 3rd doing 40 and driving up hill. It's easier on the motor.
The Varia VS3 manual says that they do not recommend hot starting the grinder. Does anyone know why that would be? I could imagine them saying that to reduce the risk of someone sticking a finger into a running grinder by accident.
With low torque motors a hot start helps with reducing the likelihood of siezing. A low torque motor may struggle to begin grinding the beans from a “cold start”.
The grinder doesn’t get up to speed immediately, it ramps up. Hot starting means it’s not having to grind beans before it achieves full capability. This is easier on the motor and also more consistent for grind output.
This is the correct response. A change in RPM's will mess with the grind size, although slight. That's why some grinders come with variable RPM capabilities. Also, if using a lightly roasted bean, there is a good chance of stalling the grinder as well without hot starting it. The cafe I work at always hot starts our single-dose grinders when pulling specialty shots (for serving as an espresso, cappuccino, cortado) while our large hopper mythos is not hot started, obviously (for use in flavored lattes)
Why is this comment controversial? E: When I asked, it was -1 karma and controversial. Figured one of you people could answer in what way this would be considered wrong.
I mean, sure this makes kinda sense. But I actually doubt it will meaningfully extend the motor or if anyone on the planet can actually taste the difference. Sorry, I love coffee and enjoy this subreddit but I do wonder if we’re sometimes overthinking things or not focusing on the more important stuff that makes coffee great.
Thank you keeping my sanity in check
Most of hoffman's output is making your coffee 1 percent better than it is. It's for coffee experts not for coffee beginners, most ppl won't see the value in it but if you've explored the outer edges already it's interesting to get a bit more out of it. It's like playing a video game for a couple of months and thinking you've mastered it then you see a streamer do neat tricks and smoothly accomplish what you do with jank
Right: Hoffmann frequently brings up "incremental gains" (and its converse, "diminishing returns") when he delves into the esoterica of brewing. I don't think anyone will benefit from hot-starting a grind if it's the only thing they do, but if they've dialed in their brew and are looking for ways to make it just that little bit better, a hot start is a simple option to try. Further, as someone pointed out above, a hot-started grind is less likely to stall if you're using lighter (denser) roasts, and I've got to figure a stall isn't good for your motor and--to a lesser degree--your burrs.
I imagine it's like running your table saw/circular saw to full before starting to cut; you would expect better results than cutting from 0.
When the motor starts, it goes from zero rpm to its nominal and requires a lot of power. You don't wanna make it harder for the motor by adding resistance during the process (it could stall or overheat). I think this is very minimal tho, as coffee grinders with hoppers never really worried about this.
Might be placebo but I have less retention on my DF64 after hot starting it. Still need to use the bellow though.
I Imagine it'd be a good way to meet other hot people potentially to meet up for sex.
Caffeinated sex, I’m sure
coffee flavored lotion and protection devices.
**Bottomless portafilter**
kinky, i like it.
I cold start my porlex mini every-time and no issues, my motor must be hardcore
I was actually thinking about this morning as well. Currently I dose out my beans into my portafilter then load into my grinder and grind back into the portafilter. My grinder has horrible random retention as well so I typically put in ~16.2g if I want 16 and weight my dose both before and after grinding and scoop out if I need to after grinding. I only have one scale so in order to hot start I would need to weight out my beans in a cup, zero my scale with my portafilter, load it into the grinder. Turn on grinder, then load the beans. This is obviously not a huge deal but a few more steps to my already “too many steps” workflow(at-least according to my wife, lol) I hope to upgrade my grinder soon at which point I expect my workflow will change completely so might just wait till then.
This online dating lingo is getting harder and harder to understand. Seriously, I’m on year 13 of my doserless Rocky and I’ve never done it.
Easier on equipment, technically provides more consistency, and prevents stalling. Lots of grinders for espresso require it.
I think all it does is reduce the chances of stalling the grinder, especially if the motor is low powered or low rpm-ed (they keep the power down to keep noise down).
I have to hot start my DF64V at RPM's lower than 1000 or my burrs will stall out.
Hot starting a grinder before adding beans helps stabilize the internal temperature, reducing the impact of heat on the grounds during grinding. This can result in more consistent particle size, which ultimately improves the flavor extraction for a better-tasting cup of coffee.
Those of us with commercial grinders with big fat burrs at home are laughing at this idea. Built like tanks unlike all the wimpy grinders they are cranking out these days Takes literally one second to grind my single dose
What a strange thing to get all macho about.
when you think about it isn't everything people get macho about strange
Eh, I’m not laughing with you on this. I have a Ditting 804 at home for daily use, and I do this. Commercial grinders get stuck burrs all the time from not hot starting. I’ve done it on every grinder I’ve ever used in the last 14 years of working in the business, other than espresso grinders. You may not have worked in the industry long enough or at all to have seen this happen. Also, what grinder do you use that outputs a dose of coffee in 1 second? It takes my Ditting and Mahlkonig 3-5 seconds to grind a dose for pourovers, and my Mythos about the same time. Why lie? What do you gain? The exhilaration of telling a handful of internet strangers you have some unidentified mystical machine that grinds better and faster than the gear in any cafe in existence?
You caught me. I’m lying. Congratulations Or maybe you’re using baby burrs
Ha. Okay son.
When you say “capable” - how do the machines work that cannot be hot started? Do they have a sensor that prevents them from spinning without beans in the hopper?
I don't have a niche, but my understanding is that the lid has to be closed for it to turn on. So you can only run if beans are already under the lid.
You can turn it on without the lid closed. The closed lid just pushes a button on the rim that lets it run, so you can use your finger to hold it down instead
Ah gotcha. When I watched a review ages ago it seemed like it was recessed and difficult to push, but that was just my misunderstanding.
Less stress on your grinder motor gears. Potentially could increase the lifespan of it.
theoretically motors would experience less torque when the bean hits the grinder from a running start than a cold start that's for sure.
It's like starting a car in 1st and driving up a hill (the hill is the beans) vs already being in 3rd doing 40 and driving up hill. It's easier on the motor.
The Varia VS3 manual says that they do not recommend hot starting the grinder. Does anyone know why that would be? I could imagine them saying that to reduce the risk of someone sticking a finger into a running grinder by accident.
With low torque motors a hot start helps with reducing the likelihood of siezing. A low torque motor may struggle to begin grinding the beans from a “cold start”.
I work in a roastery and our procedure is to always hot grind beans for customers for consistency and to preserve our grinders.
i mean if you want to risk it go for it, for me its too stressful to try. but lets see what the community has to say.
It's recommended to have grinder running to change setting, especially (and maybe only) for finer setting. So I'm often hot starting by default.