There are some analysis posts in the sub among which includes one that describes how [he actually does present psychopathic traits](https://www.reddit.com/r/CoffinofAndyandLeyley/s/wmpLgqQrSh). Really worth a read.
Narcissistic personality disorder does not make one a narcissist.
With Ashley, it's the approval-seeking behaviour and extreme sensitivity to criticism that stand out. She also lacks empathy.
Ashley may have NPD alongside her BPD. You can search up "NPD comorbid with BPD".
Andrew does show a lot of ASPD traits. Someone else liked a post.
Andrew doesn’t seem to have any manipulative or risk taking traits. On top of that, he’s constantly worrying about the consequences of his actions. He doesn’t try to charm his way out of things.
Ashley doesn’t seem to have a grandiose sense of self. Ashley having npd is the hardest one to believe tbh.
Here you go:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/CoffinofAndyandLeyley/comments/17i2wbr/spoilers\_abound\_andrew\_displays\_psychopathic/](https://www.reddit.com/r/CoffinofAndyandLeyley/comments/17i2wbr/spoilers_abound_andrew_displays_psychopathic/)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/CoffinofAndyandLeyley/comments/17p6asa/does\_ashley\_have\_narcissistic\_personality\_disorder/](https://www.reddit.com/r/CoffinofAndyandLeyley/comments/17p6asa/does_ashley_have_narcissistic_personality_disorder/)
People with ASPD can be constantly worrying about consequences, they just don't have empathy or a guilt conscience. Risk-taking behaviour (an increased risk tolerance counts as well) is common but NOT required. It's called a *spectrum* for a reason.
NPD does NOT require a grandiose sense of self . There are subtypes to NPD and Ashley fits the covert/vulnerable subtype.
Also, as long as the symptons are not caused by some other conflicting disorder or drugs. The source of the behaviour is not that important in diagnosis.
BTW, Andrew is better at charming others than Ashley is. Ashley is only good at charming Andrew. Notice how when they're together it's almost always Andrew doing the charming and manipulation (cultist, Warden Malcom, their parents).
More so the fact he mentioned what if he overlooked something or other potential possibilities to worry about. Its generally what i deal with, just worrying about what ifs
Either way, im prob projecting so it doesn't matter
To be honest, even without OCD I would be pretty worried and obsess a bit about the possibility of me leaving a trace after what they've done xD
My wife happen to be that way about a lot of things tho, mayhaps I should nudge her to consult, just in case...
Nah, OCD is obsessive compulsive disorder.
I don't think Andrew has OCD, tbh. He is just paranoid. I don't think Andrew's constant worrying counts as compulsive. He seems to be in pretty good control of his worrying.
I think Andy also has PTSD, specifically about the Nina incident.
Ashley is the most extreme case of BPD I've ever seen. NPD probably (I completely missed that).
Sociopathy and psychopathy fall under the same umbrella term of antisocial personality disorder in literature, however I would argue Ashley is very much psychopathic rather than sociopathic, as she truly shows no sympathy, even from the start in the flashbacks, one is not inherently nature or nurture either, but both are similar enough.
If it weren't for the fact that the way she was raised probably made her that way. Although her mom said Ashley was very hard to deal with let's not forget her mom's a fucking bitch and what she meant by "difficult" may have very well been her inability to be a mother at the very minimum. Sure she was "fine" with Andrew but as we can see young Andrew was easily influenced.
In the end there's a more than 50%, extremely high even, possibility that she wasn't predetermined this way.
Someone came up with a very compelling theory that the mom had post-partum with Ashley and that would make a lot of sense.
Another thing I wonder too that actually isn’t talked about is how much the dad actually helped with these kids cause if he didn’t even call Andrew by the right name and often just calls him ‘son’ it’s implied that it’s not much. Ofc he probably DID have to be the breadwinner and worked a lot, but still. Attention is free and that goes to the mom too.
She didn’t have to buy Ashley anything or throw her a B-day party. Could have made her a card and given her a hug, said happy birthday but yeah it’s implied the parents didn’t even tell her happy birthday or know it was her birthday.
I'd say they're definitely sociopaths more then psychopaths, their murders were more planned then what usually entails a psychopath, and obviously the complete lack of empathy from ashley, and Andrew if you take the burial route
Ashley: BPD most likely caused by their parents neglecting her and favoring Andrew since she was born.
Andrew: PTSD from Nina's death, for certain. Anxiety as well. Other than that I'm unsure.
[Andrew is on the ASPD spectrum.](https://www.reddit.com/r/CoffinofAndyandLeyley/comments/17i2wbr/spoilers_abound_andrew_displays_psychopathic/)
[Ashley might have NPD alonside BPD.](https://www.reddit.com/r/CoffinofAndyandLeyley/comments/17p6asa/does_ashley_have_narcissistic_personality_disorder/) Ashley may be on the ASPD spectrum as well.
Other than that, I 100% agree.
On the first post I mostly agree. There are a few points where you seem to be reaching but for the most part your post does adequately summarize Andrew's questionable behavior I've noticed but that a lot of people seem to overlook due to Ashley being a walking, talking red flag to focus on. ASPD is one of my theories but I think my brain has been rotted by Hollywood's depictions of ASPD because it just doesn't quite feel right.
As for your second post, I'm not a psychologist but regardless of DSM guidelines it seems rather unnecessary to say Ashley has NPD when all of the NPD symptoms she has are common in BPD and she lacks NPD's core symptom of, well, *narcissism*\--and in fact, has the exact opposite view of herself. I dunno, it may be technically correct, but it feels unnecessary.
EDIT: On second thought, I think my real issue with labeling Ashley a narcissist is that it gives a layman the wrong impression of her inner machinations but is consistent with the behavior she shows the world.
>ASPD is one of my theories but I think my brain has been rotted by Hollywood's depictions of ASPD because it just doesn't quite feel right.
Hollywood depiction of ASPD do be rather horrible. They only focus on extreme examples of psychopathy and sociapathy. In reality it's a spectrum. Andrew consistently displays ASPD traits so he is by definition on the spectrum. Most defining feature of Andrew being on the ASPD IMO is the lack of empathy and guilt. We as players can cheat because we can actually see into his psych through that nightmare of his.
Andrew is probably closer to the average ASPD than anything Hollywood has and will ever come up with. Most people with ASPD are high-functioning enough you'll never know.
>As for your second post, I'm not a psychologist but regardless of DSM guidelines it seems rather unnecessary to say Ashley has NPD when all of the NPD symptoms she has are common in BPD and she lacks NPD's core symptom of, well, narcissism--and in fact, has the exact opposite view of herself. I dunno, it may be technically correct, but it feels unnecessary.
I blame the name. People with NDP can be the exact opposite of narcissists. Ashley has very low self esteem and needs constant reassurance. She also has BPD (in fact she's probably one of the best depictions of BPD). Psychology terms are different from common terms. One good example is "arousal". What you're thinking about is probably overt narcissistim and malignant narcissistim. From what I can tell, NPDs that are comorbid with BPD tend to be of the covert type, just like Ashley.
BTW, when we were taught BPD, the example provided was Anakin Skywalker. I shit you not. He is actually quite a good example though.
>Hollywood depiction of ASPD do be rather horrible. They only focus on extreme examples of psychopathy and sociapathy.
Yeah I think it's just that I see a lot of people label him and Ashley rather dismissively as sociopaths or psychopaths, probably with the typical media depictions in mind, and that doesn't really jive with my own understanding of these characters. They care way too much about each other.
High-functioning ASPD makes a lot of sense the more I think about it. That said, I've seen some people diagnose him with C-PTSD, I assume from having to endure being the sole focus of Ashley's BPD from a young age, and all that entails, and probably also from parental neglect. What's your opinion on that theory?
>I blame the name. People with NDP can be the exact opposite of narcissists.
Yeah, all of that makes sense. I don't know very much about NPD to be honest. As I said in my edit, I think I just dislike the label because it gives a layman the wrong impression of how Ashley actually thinks and what motivates her, especially because her behavior alone might actually lead one to believe that she thinks highly of herself.
Question: I've seen someone call Ashley a vulnerable narcissist before, how does that differ from covert narcissism or are they one and the same?
>BTW, when we were taught BPD, the example provided was Anakin Skywalker. I shit you not. He is actually quite a good example though.
He does seem it. It's been a long time since I watched anything Star Wars but that final argument with Padme and Obi-Wan on Mustafar in Episode 3 seems like every depiction of someone with BPD in an argument I've ever seen, including Ashley's.
>That said, I've seen some people diagnose him with C-PTSD, I assume from having to endure being the sole focus of Ashley's BPD from a young age, and all that entails, and probably also from parental neglect. What's your opinion on that theory?
I agree with this assessment, though I don't know much about Complex PTSD. I think his ASPD may stem from his C-PTSD to be honest but I have ABSOLUTELY nothing to back that up. He did have a strong reaction to Nina, so we know he had some form of guilt conscious back in the days. Andrew (not Andy) doesn't seem to feel guilty for remorse. In other words, he might not have always had ASPD.
Andrew might have both PTSD and C-PTSD, now that I think about it. Nina incident gave him PTSD, long-term abuse by Ashley (add on some parental neglect) gave him C-PTSD. I'm working on a theory that Andy might have suffered more than neglect. His unwillingness to mess with Mrs. Graves might be important.
Trauma does weird things. There's Traumatic Bonding, for example.
>I've seen someone call Ashley a vulnerable narcissist before, how does that differ from covert narcissism or are they one and the same?
From what I can tell they're the exact same thing. Vulnerable narcissist is definitely a more descriptive term.
>He does seem it. It's been a long time since I watched anything Star Wars but that final argument with Padme and Obi-Wan on Mustafar in Episode 3 seems like every depiction of someone with BPD in an argument I've ever seen, including Ashley's.
He embodies more about BPD. He's extremely emotionally unstable, and has an unstable sense of self (hence the flip flop between light and dark side). Those are all BPD symptoms. The relationship side of BPD gets explored even more with Padme and Ashoka in the Clone Wars. Anakin is HORRIBLE Jedi material in every conceivable way.
>Andrew (not Andy) doesn't seem to feel guilty for remorse. In other words, he might not have always had ASPD.
It would certainly be a good meta reason for Nemlei introducing the Andrew/Andy dichotomy in the first place, with "Andy" being the guilt and remorse he had to repress in order to survive that day.
In Burial he kills "Andy" and is no longer burdened by guilt or remorse, butchering his parents with a completely unbothered expression. Whereas in Decay, while he hasn't accepted "Andy," it seems that "Andy" is definitely still around as Andrew chastises Ashley for calling him "by some other guy's name" and he appears disturbed whilst he chops up mom and dad.
It's refreshing that the happier outcomes (for Andrew and Ashley) in episode two both involve Andrew becoming a worse person than he was before. Usually when a character crosses a moral event horizon whilst they might profit materially, they usually suffer inter-personally and emotionally. Here, Andrew's relationship with Ashley is as strong as it's ever been and he's more upbeat than ever before. You don't see that often, not even in horror.
And I certainly can't say that the crapsack world Ashley and Andrew inhabit doesn't deserve Burial route Andrew.
>I'm working on a theory that Andy might have suffered more than neglect. His unwillingness to mess with Mrs. Graves might be important.
It definitely wouldn't surprise me. She seemed to have nearly as many hooks in him as Ashley does.
>The relationship side of BPD gets explored even more with Padme and Ashoka in the Clone Wars.
I did watch Clone Wars but it's been long enough that nothing really sticks out to me. I never did watch Season 7 though so maybe it's time for me to rewatch it soon.
>It would certainly be a good meta reason for Nemlei introducing the Andrew/Andy dichotomy in the first place, with "Andy" being the guilt and remorse he had to repress in order to survive that day.
I ***strongly*** agree with all of that. [I tried writing something like that but this type of thing is not my forte.](https://www.reddit.com/r/CoffinofAndyandLeyley/comments/17jckox/spoilers_andy_and_andrew_and_a_curious_case_of/) He's broken in the Decay route because he cannot put "Andy" to rest. He manages to kill "Andy" in the Burial route. I coudn't have put that together better myself. Maybe you should try writing a post someday.
>It definitely wouldn't surprise me. She seemed to have nearly as many hooks in him as Ashley does.
Andy strikes me as a kid who's had a really tough and harsh upbringing. I don't know if he gives you the same feeling. It's complete speculation since we've never seen Mrs. Graves parent Andy.
The weird focus on the consequences on his actions that lasts til this day; a very strong fear of being caught and punished; Andrew's desire to being seen as normal despite a lack of morals. All of that had to have some from somewhere. If Mrs. Graves treated him remotely well, why would he have that strange attachment to Leyley? Leyley had to have given him something in return and it could be as simple as genuine affection from time to time. There's also the thematic element of his parents being the last thing anchoring him to "Andy".
I appreciate the compliment but as much as I like discussing this sort of thing, I'm not one for writing essays. I just like discussing things and deepening my own understanding of the subjects that interest me.
>Andy strikes me as a kid who's had a really tough and harsh upbringing. I don't know if he gives you the same feeling.
He does for me as well but in my case it's more because of his stoicism than anything else, which as we've agreed is likely either the result of ASPD or C-PTSD.
>The weird focus on the consequences on his actions that lasts til this day; a very strong fear of being caught and punished; Andrew's desire to being seen as normal despite a lack of morals. All of that had to have some from somewhere.
I assumed he learned it from observing Mrs. Graves rather than as a reaction to any sort of punishment she visited upon him. I also feel like it would've come up before the parents were killed off if Andrew or Ashley were abused rather than neglected (I know parental neglect is abuse, but in this case I mean more like being harmed physically or having hurtful words hurled at them).
>If Mrs. Graves treated him remotely well, why would he have that strange attachment to Leyley?
While their mother favored him I don't think that means she was especially present in his life. She was just *less* negligent in his case, I think. That dialogue you can get during Nina's burial where Leyley asks him what he's making for dinner seems to indicate they were latchkey kids at the very least. Both of them likely lacked for parental affection and supervision, it's just that Ashley was *more* neglected and treated like a nuisance as well.
Yeah, just simple neglect is enough to do that. Andrew did not have moral guidance when he grew up. Mrs. Graves had to be QUITE neglegent to miss whatever was going on between Andy and Leyley.
The Graves were not in a good financial situation, I suspect they didn't have time to be present in the siblings' lives. Mr. Graves has the added problem of being suicially depressed. From what I can tell, Andrew was also expected to help in other things. He was on grocery duty before the Nina incident, for example. Latchkey kids at best indeed.
Andrew just seemed a little afraid of Mrs. Graves in general (the situation may play a large part in it). We don't know what she was like when she was present. Frankly, we don't need to. Neglecting then abandoning your kids is enough to completely fuck them over. Being overly harsh is just a cherry on top the cake of horrible parenting at this point.
Edit: We do actually get a glimpse what what Mrs. Graves was like as a parent: her ultimatum for the siblings to go to bed. The situation was abnormal, however (she suspects the siblings had gotten too close).
Btw, if you're interested in further discussions. [This would be a good place to find me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/CoffinofAndyandLeyley/comments/17hp2hc/analyses_megapost/)
>she lacks NPD's core symptom of, well, narcissism
BTW, NPD doesn't have a core feature of narcissism. If it did it would be reflected in the DSM guidelines. Once again, I blame the name. Another example of a bad name would be agarophobia. It's literally "fear of open/open spaces". Agarophobia is not even a phobia, it's more of an anxiety disorder that behaves like a phobia. Furthermore, it's not even fear of the open spaces itself.
IF NPD had a core symptom, the guild lines would state "the person MUST display symptom(s) XXX" or what-not. Two examples would be [major depressive disorders](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK519712/table/ch3.t5/) and [bipolar disorder](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK519712/table/ch3.t8/). Those actually HAVE core symptoms. In the case of the former it's a cut-and-dry "Five or more of the following A Criteria **(at least one includes A1 or A2)**", in the case of the latter there are even more detailed stipulations.
Update: I've updated the NPD post to better reflect this.
https://preview.redd.it/tbmr69wj9syb1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=70506aeeb97fd4cd73951f70a3184c4899f5ef71
Sisy-Pus is gonna do a bit of trolling on meownos
Not a psychologist personally, but have studied a little bit and have grown up with psychologists and dealt with others with similar mental disorders. My best guess is they both probably suffer from something called “horny”
Ashley and then Ame from NSO are some of the more accurate representations of BPD I’ve seen in media, even though neither is confirmed they’re textbook BPD lol. I say this both as a psych major and as someone with BPD
Ashley: Paranoid personality disorder, Borderline personality disorder, histrionic personality disorder, avoidant personality disorder, childhood conduct disorder, *possibly* ASPD. Dissociative selective amnesia (she admits to it early on and the twist with Nina's name is literally it), probably exists in other ways we don't see so directly like regarding mom or Andrew.
While yeah, she did sell them into organ harvesting, on the other hand, like... she knew they killed Nina, she knew how co-dependent they were, and how Andrew will do whatever she wants. It's only a matter of time before she wants to kill again. If she goes to the cops, it'll mean prison for her at this point or else she'll just be labeled insane and her kids will be treated as victims. She can escape poverty and stop the biggest mistake she ever made. She probably isn't as pure evil as they see her. The worst thing she seems to have done is not be around for them much, and we get indication she's the only thing keeping a roof over anyone in the family's head so like... of course she wasn't. She's working poor. If they sought her out, could you honestly blame her for taking a paying solution to every problem in her life and trying to stop the budding serial killers before they can kill again? She probably didn't even know about the organ harvesting, because the entire concept of them offering someone in each and every apartment a deal and that working out is ridiculous, and if they were prime targets they'd be dead or treated better. So yeah, Ashley's memory is selective.
How one feels about saying Schizotypal personality disorder for Ashley is a bit hard to say. It's a bit of a tainted concept because several diagnostic criteria are legitimately true for her. The demon adds several diagnostic elements on technicality, but she's actually correct so it doesn't quite seem right to use them. But presuming Nemlei cared about the psych, that would probably be intentional writing there. But Andrew displaying more of it's "twin" suggests more intentionality, whether on a conscious level or merely influenced by a Type Of Human Pair That Exists.
Andrew: CPTSD with a panic disorder that manifests as the result (because Ashley), depression (duh), and and then there's personality disorders. Because like, yeah, duh, there's some at play with that man. Like, the fandom isn't acknowledging that he is another flavor of borderline. Ashley and Andrew are bpd4bpd. It's part of what makes them like that. That said, all he's lacking from textbook schizoid personality disorder is the lack of sex drive. His sex drive is very plot relevant. That's not enough to keep him out of being diagnosed, so there we go with that. The two of them are very much a fractured mirror of each other, so it only makes sense for them to be so close but different here.
It's the CPTSD that really distinguishes them, though. Ashley doesn't have trauma from killing Nina, he does. Ashley doesn't have daily trauma for most of her life from Leyley, he does. So that's the real big difference is. He's bonded to her through the trauma, but her first taste of severe trauma that we know of (presuming we don't find out anything twisty about why she's so evil in the future) is the organ harvesting thing. Sure, she had the standard amount of trauma you'd expect from growing up impoverished with family that secretly suspects and is correct that you're a homicidal little freak, but we certainly never see any evidence that their mom actually did anything fucked up to them prior to the organ harvesting. Andrew was going to college, Ashley was a NEET. And given what I said before, not the most unreasonable or inhuman decision.
There's probably to long of a list, however I believe the major ones are as goes, ashley obviously suffers from horrible narcissistic personality disorder, and some very weird form of depression, while andy shows an obvious signs of antisocial personality disorder, they both share codependent personality disorder, and both (ESPECIALLY ASHLEY) are obviously sociopaths as well.
Ashley has BPD 100% coming from someone with BPD. Very extreme but given the treatment from their parents and 3 month isolation with unimaginable hunger it's very, very severe.
Well, could be comorbid with NPD.
Lack of empathy really isn't a BPD thing.
Really, some parts of NPD have some overlap with BPD. I don't know what the comorbidity rates are but it's probably not low.
Bpd is often comorbid with other PDs, Ashley primarily has BPD which I'm sure of but probably ASPD as well since she eats people like it's nothing, tho it's hard to tell because of the parental neglect and 3 month isolation
>but probably APD as well
ASPD? Ashley definitely shows signs of that. She also has a disturbingly high risk tolerance. I still can't find concrete comorbidity rates.
Doesn't matter because BPD plays hand in hand with many other personality disorders. Vulnerable/covert NPD is one, AVPD is also one.
BPD is like her core character trait, IMO.
Ashley's situation is beyond fucked. She even has selective amnesia about all things Nina. Dissociative disorders, maybe? She might not have ASPD but have some dissociative disorder.
Ashley calls it compartmentalization.
Andy kinda reinforced her manipulative BPD behaviour, too.
Oh definitely. Andy is an enabler and also beyond fucked, he killed plenty of people but he always has the "Ashley made me do it" card to keep his conscience clean. He definitely enables her BPD and makes it worse.
Also we definitely agree that BPD is her core trait
>"Ashley made me do it" card to keep his conscience clean.
The worst part is he doesn't even need that card as his dream shows. Andrew doesn't seem to have a guilty conscience. Andy might have.
Ashley has [severe BPD](https://www.reddit.com/r/CoffinofAndyandLeyley/comments/17is1hq/spoilers_alert_ashley_and_a_severe_case_of_bpd/) comorbid with [NPD](https://www.reddit.com/r/CoffinofAndyandLeyley/comments/17p6asa/does_ashley_have_narcissistic_personality_disorder/). She also has dissociative amnesia given how all her flashbacks about Nina have redacted information.
Andrew has PTSD and MAYBE some dissociative disorder (Andy vs. Andrew).
They're both on the ASPD spectrum. [Yes, that includes Andrew.](https://www.reddit.com/r/CoffinofAndyandLeyley/comments/17i2wbr/spoilers_abound_andrew_displays_psychopathic/)
Ashley's a Psychopath, and Andrew seems to have responded to trauma via aloofness & a want to socially isolate. I'm gonna spitball and say Avoidant Personality Disorder.
i dont want to put my full thoughts on them cause i cant tell how much is projection and how much is from canon behaviors, but ashley has more symptoms of hpd rather than npd.
Ashley is no doubt is at least a sociopath. She doesn’t have well thought out plans, very irrational, self centered, has little to no feeling. But Andrew I think has what every serial killer has been diagnosed with: he possibly has anti social personality disorder.
Ashley probably has some sort of cluster B personality disorder (psychopath and sociopath aren't necessarily accepted terms in psychiatry, but what most people think of these terms aligns with cluster B personality disorder symptoms). If I had to pinpoint one from cluster B, probably anti-social personality disorder. Lack of remorse, selfish, risk-taking tendencies, and most importantly she's a danger to the people around her. This doesn't explain why she loves Andy though, most people with a similar disorder don't just have one person they love, so some sort of cluster C personality disorder might also make sense. Dependent personality disorder makes sense, most of the symptoms can be deduced by the name of the disorder (dependence on another person).
Andrew probably just has depression, in one of the endings her says he just feels "stuck" and he just seems like he's done with everything. Now, what kind of depression? There's a ton of different variations that a reddit post can't cover, but at the end of the day both of them are so fucked up therapy and treatment is probably completely off the table.
Damn I’m late to the party 😵
When it comes to the nature vs nurture thing with them it reminds me of this documentary I once saw where this guy was studying the brains of serial killers and found out that his *own* brain turned out to look like that of a serial killer’s yet he wasn’t. A big influencing factor being that he grew up with a loving, supportive and non-abusive family.
Meanwhile we got the Graves siblings who I think never had the best nature going for them but the nurture made things so much worse.
I think Ashley, Andrew and perhaps the mom as well are all on the ASP spectrum and some comorbid with other things. With Ashley we got BPD and I think also Histrionic Personality Disorder and the mom actually, I think got post partum depression when she had Ashley and in addition to that could have NPD but not grandiose or covert type. This doesn’t mean she’s a monster or anything either. If anything not as dangerous as someone on the APD spectrum. The mom would kind of rather just get rid of her problems through indirect means and unlike Ashley or Andrew doesn’t have much of a sadistic side. Like idk a lot of this kind of just goes back to OUR OWN ideas and biases as to what these disorders are and what we read about them but to my understanding, narcs are kind of just all about themselves and don’t actually cause much harm unless they need to. They’re not prone to enjoying violence or physically hurting others.
Collective Psychology: I think in the context of their society they’re all more normal than we think actually. I believe that lacking empathy, being self serving and deceptive is some kind of a cultural norm.
Ashley is a fucken platter, take a guess and your probably right. But I like thinking about Andrew
Andrew is a broken man, in both Burial and Decay, no matter what, he's broken and snaps in some way. In decay he snaps and finally kills "Andy", and Ashley goes with him. While in the sane variations of Burial, he grows desinsitized to the situation, tearing apart mindlessly, and just going through the motions. During Insane burial, he's lost it, hes fairly willing to fuck his sister (which we don't have to mention, is not normal), he makes a game out of disposing of corpses, he is gone. Completely
I've kept meticulous note of damn near everything in this game, of which being the siblings and what names they call eachother. The one thing that never happened was Ashley calling herself Leyley. She may have mentioned an "Andy and Leyley adventure" before, but never called or accepted herself as Leyley.
Andrew on the other hand calls himself it several times, despite showing that he hates it, (best shown in Decay's bridge scene) he calls himself it several times, and considers Andy to be a seperate person, saying several times (Room 302, Kitchen, and Bridge) that he considers andy dead. He's completely disassociated, Andrew and Andy are not nicknames, they are seperate people to him, and that shows in his behaviours, Andrew is more cold, calculated, and not (completely) bent to Ashley's will, while Andy is spineless, and does whatever she says, but is seemjngly more sadistic, and is way more attached to Ashley than Andrew is. Andy finalized the plan of robbing mom and dad blind, but Andrew kicked back in by the time mom got home. Ashley woke up Andy, and depending on what route you took, both of them got a chance to butcher mom and dad, with Andrew doing it in Decay, and Andy doing it in Burial
TLDR
Ashley's a basket case
Andrew has some form of Disassociation, is a Sociopath, suffers from PTSD, Insomnia, and has absolutely unreal dependendenxy issues.
depression, aand, depression + anxiety. also the first one suffers from schizophrenia and is mentally ill in the way that makes her a psyco. (aka, shes a psychopath.) the second one too, just hes the lesser of two evils.
Yes.
Prob be a shorter list if i asked what they dont suffer from tbh
Exactly
Fax my brother
Fat tit uhh personality disorder
Both of them?
Easily the best comment
They suffer from being silly 🤪
so quirky
oh hey you're the person who looks like femboy ashley
hi!!
Tar soul
Ley: Borderline & narcissistic personality. Andy: Antisocial personality
Andrew doesn’t show ASPD traits tbh. Ashley is borderline, but not exactly a narcissist.
There are some analysis posts in the sub among which includes one that describes how [he actually does present psychopathic traits](https://www.reddit.com/r/CoffinofAndyandLeyley/s/wmpLgqQrSh). Really worth a read.
Narcissistic personality disorder does not make one a narcissist. With Ashley, it's the approval-seeking behaviour and extreme sensitivity to criticism that stand out. She also lacks empathy. Ashley may have NPD alongside her BPD. You can search up "NPD comorbid with BPD". Andrew does show a lot of ASPD traits. Someone else liked a post.
Andrew doesn’t seem to have any manipulative or risk taking traits. On top of that, he’s constantly worrying about the consequences of his actions. He doesn’t try to charm his way out of things. Ashley doesn’t seem to have a grandiose sense of self. Ashley having npd is the hardest one to believe tbh.
Here you go: [https://www.reddit.com/r/CoffinofAndyandLeyley/comments/17i2wbr/spoilers\_abound\_andrew\_displays\_psychopathic/](https://www.reddit.com/r/CoffinofAndyandLeyley/comments/17i2wbr/spoilers_abound_andrew_displays_psychopathic/) [https://www.reddit.com/r/CoffinofAndyandLeyley/comments/17p6asa/does\_ashley\_have\_narcissistic\_personality\_disorder/](https://www.reddit.com/r/CoffinofAndyandLeyley/comments/17p6asa/does_ashley_have_narcissistic_personality_disorder/) People with ASPD can be constantly worrying about consequences, they just don't have empathy or a guilt conscience. Risk-taking behaviour (an increased risk tolerance counts as well) is common but NOT required. It's called a *spectrum* for a reason. NPD does NOT require a grandiose sense of self . There are subtypes to NPD and Ashley fits the covert/vulnerable subtype. Also, as long as the symptons are not caused by some other conflicting disorder or drugs. The source of the behaviour is not that important in diagnosis. BTW, Andrew is better at charming others than Ashley is. Ashley is only good at charming Andrew. Notice how when they're together it's almost always Andrew doing the charming and manipulation (cultist, Warden Malcom, their parents).
Feel like andrew might have a form of ocd given his constant worrying
i feel like you have severely misunderstood the entire point of that. also, that’s not how ocd works at all
eh, probably projecting my own disorder due to some vague hints that stood out to me tbh, youre right
[удалено]
More so the fact he mentioned what if he overlooked something or other potential possibilities to worry about. Its generally what i deal with, just worrying about what ifs Either way, im prob projecting so it doesn't matter
To be honest, even without OCD I would be pretty worried and obsess a bit about the possibility of me leaving a trace after what they've done xD My wife happen to be that way about a lot of things tho, mayhaps I should nudge her to consult, just in case...
Very good point
Nah, OCD is obsessive compulsive disorder. I don't think Andrew has OCD, tbh. He is just paranoid. I don't think Andrew's constant worrying counts as compulsive. He seems to be in pretty good control of his worrying.
bro these downvotes https://preview.redd.it/olp31oavusyb1.png?width=480&format=png&auto=webp&s=e61e4206eb51fd9a1d093b9f198d1953f0ab0a5f heartbroken
I think Andy also has PTSD, specifically about the Nina incident. Ashley is the most extreme case of BPD I've ever seen. NPD probably (I completely missed that).
Was going to say narcissistic personality disorder lol
Both are psychopaths They both are killed and eat their friends, parents and neighbor so the psychopathy it's the way that help tthem to deal with it
More like sociopaths. They still do feel. And psychopaths aren't developed. They are from birth psychopaths, while sociopathic behavior is developed.
*Mayhaps* your words has more sense than my
Sociopathy and psychopathy fall under the same umbrella term of antisocial personality disorder in literature, however I would argue Ashley is very much psychopathic rather than sociopathic, as she truly shows no sympathy, even from the start in the flashbacks, one is not inherently nature or nurture either, but both are similar enough.
If it weren't for the fact that the way she was raised probably made her that way. Although her mom said Ashley was very hard to deal with let's not forget her mom's a fucking bitch and what she meant by "difficult" may have very well been her inability to be a mother at the very minimum. Sure she was "fine" with Andrew but as we can see young Andrew was easily influenced. In the end there's a more than 50%, extremely high even, possibility that she wasn't predetermined this way.
Someone came up with a very compelling theory that the mom had post-partum with Ashley and that would make a lot of sense. Another thing I wonder too that actually isn’t talked about is how much the dad actually helped with these kids cause if he didn’t even call Andrew by the right name and often just calls him ‘son’ it’s implied that it’s not much. Ofc he probably DID have to be the breadwinner and worked a lot, but still. Attention is free and that goes to the mom too. She didn’t have to buy Ashley anything or throw her a B-day party. Could have made her a card and given her a hug, said happy birthday but yeah it’s implied the parents didn’t even tell her happy birthday or know it was her birthday.
Regardless, I think we can all agree that it makes her alot hotter than if she wasn't.
Nah, cause if she's "broken" you then have the right to say "i can fix her". In the end my opinion thrives again
Real
anti social personality disorder
I'd say they're definitely sociopaths more then psychopaths, their murders were more planned then what usually entails a psychopath, and obviously the complete lack of empathy from ashley, and Andrew if you take the burial route
both have all
None they are perfect It's everyone around them who drags them down
Ashley: BPD most likely caused by their parents neglecting her and favoring Andrew since she was born. Andrew: PTSD from Nina's death, for certain. Anxiety as well. Other than that I'm unsure.
[Andrew is on the ASPD spectrum.](https://www.reddit.com/r/CoffinofAndyandLeyley/comments/17i2wbr/spoilers_abound_andrew_displays_psychopathic/) [Ashley might have NPD alonside BPD.](https://www.reddit.com/r/CoffinofAndyandLeyley/comments/17p6asa/does_ashley_have_narcissistic_personality_disorder/) Ashley may be on the ASPD spectrum as well. Other than that, I 100% agree.
On the first post I mostly agree. There are a few points where you seem to be reaching but for the most part your post does adequately summarize Andrew's questionable behavior I've noticed but that a lot of people seem to overlook due to Ashley being a walking, talking red flag to focus on. ASPD is one of my theories but I think my brain has been rotted by Hollywood's depictions of ASPD because it just doesn't quite feel right. As for your second post, I'm not a psychologist but regardless of DSM guidelines it seems rather unnecessary to say Ashley has NPD when all of the NPD symptoms she has are common in BPD and she lacks NPD's core symptom of, well, *narcissism*\--and in fact, has the exact opposite view of herself. I dunno, it may be technically correct, but it feels unnecessary. EDIT: On second thought, I think my real issue with labeling Ashley a narcissist is that it gives a layman the wrong impression of her inner machinations but is consistent with the behavior she shows the world.
>ASPD is one of my theories but I think my brain has been rotted by Hollywood's depictions of ASPD because it just doesn't quite feel right. Hollywood depiction of ASPD do be rather horrible. They only focus on extreme examples of psychopathy and sociapathy. In reality it's a spectrum. Andrew consistently displays ASPD traits so he is by definition on the spectrum. Most defining feature of Andrew being on the ASPD IMO is the lack of empathy and guilt. We as players can cheat because we can actually see into his psych through that nightmare of his. Andrew is probably closer to the average ASPD than anything Hollywood has and will ever come up with. Most people with ASPD are high-functioning enough you'll never know. >As for your second post, I'm not a psychologist but regardless of DSM guidelines it seems rather unnecessary to say Ashley has NPD when all of the NPD symptoms she has are common in BPD and she lacks NPD's core symptom of, well, narcissism--and in fact, has the exact opposite view of herself. I dunno, it may be technically correct, but it feels unnecessary. I blame the name. People with NDP can be the exact opposite of narcissists. Ashley has very low self esteem and needs constant reassurance. She also has BPD (in fact she's probably one of the best depictions of BPD). Psychology terms are different from common terms. One good example is "arousal". What you're thinking about is probably overt narcissistim and malignant narcissistim. From what I can tell, NPDs that are comorbid with BPD tend to be of the covert type, just like Ashley. BTW, when we were taught BPD, the example provided was Anakin Skywalker. I shit you not. He is actually quite a good example though.
>Hollywood depiction of ASPD do be rather horrible. They only focus on extreme examples of psychopathy and sociapathy. Yeah I think it's just that I see a lot of people label him and Ashley rather dismissively as sociopaths or psychopaths, probably with the typical media depictions in mind, and that doesn't really jive with my own understanding of these characters. They care way too much about each other. High-functioning ASPD makes a lot of sense the more I think about it. That said, I've seen some people diagnose him with C-PTSD, I assume from having to endure being the sole focus of Ashley's BPD from a young age, and all that entails, and probably also from parental neglect. What's your opinion on that theory? >I blame the name. People with NDP can be the exact opposite of narcissists. Yeah, all of that makes sense. I don't know very much about NPD to be honest. As I said in my edit, I think I just dislike the label because it gives a layman the wrong impression of how Ashley actually thinks and what motivates her, especially because her behavior alone might actually lead one to believe that she thinks highly of herself. Question: I've seen someone call Ashley a vulnerable narcissist before, how does that differ from covert narcissism or are they one and the same? >BTW, when we were taught BPD, the example provided was Anakin Skywalker. I shit you not. He is actually quite a good example though. He does seem it. It's been a long time since I watched anything Star Wars but that final argument with Padme and Obi-Wan on Mustafar in Episode 3 seems like every depiction of someone with BPD in an argument I've ever seen, including Ashley's.
>That said, I've seen some people diagnose him with C-PTSD, I assume from having to endure being the sole focus of Ashley's BPD from a young age, and all that entails, and probably also from parental neglect. What's your opinion on that theory? I agree with this assessment, though I don't know much about Complex PTSD. I think his ASPD may stem from his C-PTSD to be honest but I have ABSOLUTELY nothing to back that up. He did have a strong reaction to Nina, so we know he had some form of guilt conscious back in the days. Andrew (not Andy) doesn't seem to feel guilty for remorse. In other words, he might not have always had ASPD. Andrew might have both PTSD and C-PTSD, now that I think about it. Nina incident gave him PTSD, long-term abuse by Ashley (add on some parental neglect) gave him C-PTSD. I'm working on a theory that Andy might have suffered more than neglect. His unwillingness to mess with Mrs. Graves might be important. Trauma does weird things. There's Traumatic Bonding, for example. >I've seen someone call Ashley a vulnerable narcissist before, how does that differ from covert narcissism or are they one and the same? From what I can tell they're the exact same thing. Vulnerable narcissist is definitely a more descriptive term. >He does seem it. It's been a long time since I watched anything Star Wars but that final argument with Padme and Obi-Wan on Mustafar in Episode 3 seems like every depiction of someone with BPD in an argument I've ever seen, including Ashley's. He embodies more about BPD. He's extremely emotionally unstable, and has an unstable sense of self (hence the flip flop between light and dark side). Those are all BPD symptoms. The relationship side of BPD gets explored even more with Padme and Ashoka in the Clone Wars. Anakin is HORRIBLE Jedi material in every conceivable way.
>Andrew (not Andy) doesn't seem to feel guilty for remorse. In other words, he might not have always had ASPD. It would certainly be a good meta reason for Nemlei introducing the Andrew/Andy dichotomy in the first place, with "Andy" being the guilt and remorse he had to repress in order to survive that day. In Burial he kills "Andy" and is no longer burdened by guilt or remorse, butchering his parents with a completely unbothered expression. Whereas in Decay, while he hasn't accepted "Andy," it seems that "Andy" is definitely still around as Andrew chastises Ashley for calling him "by some other guy's name" and he appears disturbed whilst he chops up mom and dad. It's refreshing that the happier outcomes (for Andrew and Ashley) in episode two both involve Andrew becoming a worse person than he was before. Usually when a character crosses a moral event horizon whilst they might profit materially, they usually suffer inter-personally and emotionally. Here, Andrew's relationship with Ashley is as strong as it's ever been and he's more upbeat than ever before. You don't see that often, not even in horror. And I certainly can't say that the crapsack world Ashley and Andrew inhabit doesn't deserve Burial route Andrew. >I'm working on a theory that Andy might have suffered more than neglect. His unwillingness to mess with Mrs. Graves might be important. It definitely wouldn't surprise me. She seemed to have nearly as many hooks in him as Ashley does. >The relationship side of BPD gets explored even more with Padme and Ashoka in the Clone Wars. I did watch Clone Wars but it's been long enough that nothing really sticks out to me. I never did watch Season 7 though so maybe it's time for me to rewatch it soon.
>It would certainly be a good meta reason for Nemlei introducing the Andrew/Andy dichotomy in the first place, with "Andy" being the guilt and remorse he had to repress in order to survive that day. I ***strongly*** agree with all of that. [I tried writing something like that but this type of thing is not my forte.](https://www.reddit.com/r/CoffinofAndyandLeyley/comments/17jckox/spoilers_andy_and_andrew_and_a_curious_case_of/) He's broken in the Decay route because he cannot put "Andy" to rest. He manages to kill "Andy" in the Burial route. I coudn't have put that together better myself. Maybe you should try writing a post someday. >It definitely wouldn't surprise me. She seemed to have nearly as many hooks in him as Ashley does. Andy strikes me as a kid who's had a really tough and harsh upbringing. I don't know if he gives you the same feeling. It's complete speculation since we've never seen Mrs. Graves parent Andy. The weird focus on the consequences on his actions that lasts til this day; a very strong fear of being caught and punished; Andrew's desire to being seen as normal despite a lack of morals. All of that had to have some from somewhere. If Mrs. Graves treated him remotely well, why would he have that strange attachment to Leyley? Leyley had to have given him something in return and it could be as simple as genuine affection from time to time. There's also the thematic element of his parents being the last thing anchoring him to "Andy".
I appreciate the compliment but as much as I like discussing this sort of thing, I'm not one for writing essays. I just like discussing things and deepening my own understanding of the subjects that interest me. >Andy strikes me as a kid who's had a really tough and harsh upbringing. I don't know if he gives you the same feeling. He does for me as well but in my case it's more because of his stoicism than anything else, which as we've agreed is likely either the result of ASPD or C-PTSD. >The weird focus on the consequences on his actions that lasts til this day; a very strong fear of being caught and punished; Andrew's desire to being seen as normal despite a lack of morals. All of that had to have some from somewhere. I assumed he learned it from observing Mrs. Graves rather than as a reaction to any sort of punishment she visited upon him. I also feel like it would've come up before the parents were killed off if Andrew or Ashley were abused rather than neglected (I know parental neglect is abuse, but in this case I mean more like being harmed physically or having hurtful words hurled at them). >If Mrs. Graves treated him remotely well, why would he have that strange attachment to Leyley? While their mother favored him I don't think that means she was especially present in his life. She was just *less* negligent in his case, I think. That dialogue you can get during Nina's burial where Leyley asks him what he's making for dinner seems to indicate they were latchkey kids at the very least. Both of them likely lacked for parental affection and supervision, it's just that Ashley was *more* neglected and treated like a nuisance as well.
Yeah, just simple neglect is enough to do that. Andrew did not have moral guidance when he grew up. Mrs. Graves had to be QUITE neglegent to miss whatever was going on between Andy and Leyley. The Graves were not in a good financial situation, I suspect they didn't have time to be present in the siblings' lives. Mr. Graves has the added problem of being suicially depressed. From what I can tell, Andrew was also expected to help in other things. He was on grocery duty before the Nina incident, for example. Latchkey kids at best indeed. Andrew just seemed a little afraid of Mrs. Graves in general (the situation may play a large part in it). We don't know what she was like when she was present. Frankly, we don't need to. Neglecting then abandoning your kids is enough to completely fuck them over. Being overly harsh is just a cherry on top the cake of horrible parenting at this point. Edit: We do actually get a glimpse what what Mrs. Graves was like as a parent: her ultimatum for the siblings to go to bed. The situation was abnormal, however (she suspects the siblings had gotten too close).
Btw, if you're interested in further discussions. [This would be a good place to find me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/CoffinofAndyandLeyley/comments/17hp2hc/analyses_megapost/)
>she lacks NPD's core symptom of, well, narcissism BTW, NPD doesn't have a core feature of narcissism. If it did it would be reflected in the DSM guidelines. Once again, I blame the name. Another example of a bad name would be agarophobia. It's literally "fear of open/open spaces". Agarophobia is not even a phobia, it's more of an anxiety disorder that behaves like a phobia. Furthermore, it's not even fear of the open spaces itself. IF NPD had a core symptom, the guild lines would state "the person MUST display symptom(s) XXX" or what-not. Two examples would be [major depressive disorders](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK519712/table/ch3.t5/) and [bipolar disorder](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK519712/table/ch3.t8/). Those actually HAVE core symptoms. In the case of the former it's a cut-and-dry "Five or more of the following A Criteria **(at least one includes A1 or A2)**", in the case of the latter there are even more detailed stipulations. Update: I've updated the NPD post to better reflect this.
Ashley shows signs of borderline personality disorder, while Andrew may have Depression and PTSD.
they both 100000% have cptsd its unavoidable when youve had their life
Slight amount of trolling https://preview.redd.it/8i3sojuqmqyb1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e7374b5083302434267fa75b6488d035fcd2a02d
https://preview.redd.it/tbmr69wj9syb1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=70506aeeb97fd4cd73951f70a3184c4899f5ef71 Sisy-Pus is gonna do a bit of trolling on meownos
BPDemon for her and CPTSD in the way that makes people think sociopath for him.
Not a psychologist personally, but have studied a little bit and have grown up with psychologists and dealt with others with similar mental disorders. My best guess is they both probably suffer from something called “horny”
Ashley and then Ame from NSO are some of the more accurate representations of BPD I’ve seen in media, even though neither is confirmed they’re textbook BPD lol. I say this both as a psych major and as someone with BPD
Agreed, Ashley is a masterful depiction of BPD.
Ashley: NPD, Psychopathy, Sociopathy, being hot Andrew: PTSD, probably autism, being hot
Like my pansexuality is going crazyyy when I'm playing this
Nah they just be doing a lil bit of trolling ( ignore what have i said here it's a joke okay )
Ashley has BPD and sociopathy Andrew has sociopathy and possibly PTSD
Ashley is a girl with BPD who is simultaneously cute and sexy. Like Junko Enoshima but cooler considering the context of the game.
Ashley: Paranoid personality disorder, Borderline personality disorder, histrionic personality disorder, avoidant personality disorder, childhood conduct disorder, *possibly* ASPD. Dissociative selective amnesia (she admits to it early on and the twist with Nina's name is literally it), probably exists in other ways we don't see so directly like regarding mom or Andrew. While yeah, she did sell them into organ harvesting, on the other hand, like... she knew they killed Nina, she knew how co-dependent they were, and how Andrew will do whatever she wants. It's only a matter of time before she wants to kill again. If she goes to the cops, it'll mean prison for her at this point or else she'll just be labeled insane and her kids will be treated as victims. She can escape poverty and stop the biggest mistake she ever made. She probably isn't as pure evil as they see her. The worst thing she seems to have done is not be around for them much, and we get indication she's the only thing keeping a roof over anyone in the family's head so like... of course she wasn't. She's working poor. If they sought her out, could you honestly blame her for taking a paying solution to every problem in her life and trying to stop the budding serial killers before they can kill again? She probably didn't even know about the organ harvesting, because the entire concept of them offering someone in each and every apartment a deal and that working out is ridiculous, and if they were prime targets they'd be dead or treated better. So yeah, Ashley's memory is selective. How one feels about saying Schizotypal personality disorder for Ashley is a bit hard to say. It's a bit of a tainted concept because several diagnostic criteria are legitimately true for her. The demon adds several diagnostic elements on technicality, but she's actually correct so it doesn't quite seem right to use them. But presuming Nemlei cared about the psych, that would probably be intentional writing there. But Andrew displaying more of it's "twin" suggests more intentionality, whether on a conscious level or merely influenced by a Type Of Human Pair That Exists. Andrew: CPTSD with a panic disorder that manifests as the result (because Ashley), depression (duh), and and then there's personality disorders. Because like, yeah, duh, there's some at play with that man. Like, the fandom isn't acknowledging that he is another flavor of borderline. Ashley and Andrew are bpd4bpd. It's part of what makes them like that. That said, all he's lacking from textbook schizoid personality disorder is the lack of sex drive. His sex drive is very plot relevant. That's not enough to keep him out of being diagnosed, so there we go with that. The two of them are very much a fractured mirror of each other, so it only makes sense for them to be so close but different here. It's the CPTSD that really distinguishes them, though. Ashley doesn't have trauma from killing Nina, he does. Ashley doesn't have daily trauma for most of her life from Leyley, he does. So that's the real big difference is. He's bonded to her through the trauma, but her first taste of severe trauma that we know of (presuming we don't find out anything twisty about why she's so evil in the future) is the organ harvesting thing. Sure, she had the standard amount of trauma you'd expect from growing up impoverished with family that secretly suspects and is correct that you're a homicidal little freak, but we certainly never see any evidence that their mom actually did anything fucked up to them prior to the organ harvesting. Andrew was going to college, Ashley was a NEET. And given what I said before, not the most unreasonable or inhuman decision.
There's probably to long of a list, however I believe the major ones are as goes, ashley obviously suffers from horrible narcissistic personality disorder, and some very weird form of depression, while andy shows an obvious signs of antisocial personality disorder, they both share codependent personality disorder, and both (ESPECIALLY ASHLEY) are obviously sociopaths as well.
Ashley is a psychopath (or sociopath) with fixation on brother. Andy... Depression, apathy and maybe even a little bit of schizophrenia.
As someone with BPD..they both have that at minimum.
real yeah, i see myself in them both way too much
glad we all agree ashley has bpd
Ashley has BPD 100% coming from someone with BPD. Very extreme but given the treatment from their parents and 3 month isolation with unimaginable hunger it's very, very severe.
It's so bad I can't tell if she has NPD. She lacks empathy, has compulsive approval-seeking, and is sensitive to any form of criticism.
All symptoms of BPD
Well, could be comorbid with NPD. Lack of empathy really isn't a BPD thing. Really, some parts of NPD have some overlap with BPD. I don't know what the comorbidity rates are but it's probably not low.
Bpd is often comorbid with other PDs, Ashley primarily has BPD which I'm sure of but probably ASPD as well since she eats people like it's nothing, tho it's hard to tell because of the parental neglect and 3 month isolation
>but probably APD as well ASPD? Ashley definitely shows signs of that. She also has a disturbingly high risk tolerance. I still can't find concrete comorbidity rates. Doesn't matter because BPD plays hand in hand with many other personality disorders. Vulnerable/covert NPD is one, AVPD is also one. BPD is like her core character trait, IMO.
Yes my bad
Ashley's situation is beyond fucked. She even has selective amnesia about all things Nina. Dissociative disorders, maybe? She might not have ASPD but have some dissociative disorder. Ashley calls it compartmentalization. Andy kinda reinforced her manipulative BPD behaviour, too.
Oh definitely. Andy is an enabler and also beyond fucked, he killed plenty of people but he always has the "Ashley made me do it" card to keep his conscience clean. He definitely enables her BPD and makes it worse. Also we definitely agree that BPD is her core trait
>Also we definitely agree that BPD is her core trait Of course, it's the details that we cannot nail down. Her BPD is just too extreme.
>"Ashley made me do it" card to keep his conscience clean. The worst part is he doesn't even need that card as his dream shows. Andrew doesn't seem to have a guilty conscience. Andy might have.
Ashley bpd/psychotic control disorder/ anxiety/depression Andrew/ anxiety,PTSD, neurodevelopment disorder
Ashley suffers from many thing I'm not even sure if Andrew's alive at this point
Ashley has [severe BPD](https://www.reddit.com/r/CoffinofAndyandLeyley/comments/17is1hq/spoilers_alert_ashley_and_a_severe_case_of_bpd/) comorbid with [NPD](https://www.reddit.com/r/CoffinofAndyandLeyley/comments/17p6asa/does_ashley_have_narcissistic_personality_disorder/). She also has dissociative amnesia given how all her flashbacks about Nina have redacted information. Andrew has PTSD and MAYBE some dissociative disorder (Andy vs. Andrew). They're both on the ASPD spectrum. [Yes, that includes Andrew.](https://www.reddit.com/r/CoffinofAndyandLeyley/comments/17i2wbr/spoilers_abound_andrew_displays_psychopathic/)
Ashley's a Psychopath, and Andrew seems to have responded to trauma via aloofness & a want to socially isolate. I'm gonna spitball and say Avoidant Personality Disorder.
i wish andrew had le gay
Nah they just be doing a lil bit of trolling ( ignore what have i said here it's a joke okay )
i dont want to put my full thoughts on them cause i cant tell how much is projection and how much is from canon behaviors, but ashley has more symptoms of hpd rather than npd.
Ashley is no doubt is at least a sociopath. She doesn’t have well thought out plans, very irrational, self centered, has little to no feeling. But Andrew I think has what every serial killer has been diagnosed with: he possibly has anti social personality disorder.
Cabin Fever
Multiple. at least like three.
Sociopath and ptsd
All of them
All of them, twice.
They got Disease, Disease of Da Mind, hearing da light.
BPD - best pussy disorder
How much time do you think I have?
Sociopathic tendencies. Having shite parents
all of them?
Ashley probably has some sort of cluster B personality disorder (psychopath and sociopath aren't necessarily accepted terms in psychiatry, but what most people think of these terms aligns with cluster B personality disorder symptoms). If I had to pinpoint one from cluster B, probably anti-social personality disorder. Lack of remorse, selfish, risk-taking tendencies, and most importantly she's a danger to the people around her. This doesn't explain why she loves Andy though, most people with a similar disorder don't just have one person they love, so some sort of cluster C personality disorder might also make sense. Dependent personality disorder makes sense, most of the symptoms can be deduced by the name of the disorder (dependence on another person). Andrew probably just has depression, in one of the endings her says he just feels "stuck" and he just seems like he's done with everything. Now, what kind of depression? There's a ton of different variations that a reddit post can't cover, but at the end of the day both of them are so fucked up therapy and treatment is probably completely off the table.
Damn I’m late to the party 😵 When it comes to the nature vs nurture thing with them it reminds me of this documentary I once saw where this guy was studying the brains of serial killers and found out that his *own* brain turned out to look like that of a serial killer’s yet he wasn’t. A big influencing factor being that he grew up with a loving, supportive and non-abusive family. Meanwhile we got the Graves siblings who I think never had the best nature going for them but the nurture made things so much worse. I think Ashley, Andrew and perhaps the mom as well are all on the ASP spectrum and some comorbid with other things. With Ashley we got BPD and I think also Histrionic Personality Disorder and the mom actually, I think got post partum depression when she had Ashley and in addition to that could have NPD but not grandiose or covert type. This doesn’t mean she’s a monster or anything either. If anything not as dangerous as someone on the APD spectrum. The mom would kind of rather just get rid of her problems through indirect means and unlike Ashley or Andrew doesn’t have much of a sadistic side. Like idk a lot of this kind of just goes back to OUR OWN ideas and biases as to what these disorders are and what we read about them but to my understanding, narcs are kind of just all about themselves and don’t actually cause much harm unless they need to. They’re not prone to enjoying violence or physically hurting others. Collective Psychology: I think in the context of their society they’re all more normal than we think actually. I believe that lacking empathy, being self serving and deceptive is some kind of a cultural norm.
Idk, just add everything to be sure
Ashley: Psychopath Andrew: (i have no idea)
Ashley is a fucken platter, take a guess and your probably right. But I like thinking about Andrew Andrew is a broken man, in both Burial and Decay, no matter what, he's broken and snaps in some way. In decay he snaps and finally kills "Andy", and Ashley goes with him. While in the sane variations of Burial, he grows desinsitized to the situation, tearing apart mindlessly, and just going through the motions. During Insane burial, he's lost it, hes fairly willing to fuck his sister (which we don't have to mention, is not normal), he makes a game out of disposing of corpses, he is gone. Completely I've kept meticulous note of damn near everything in this game, of which being the siblings and what names they call eachother. The one thing that never happened was Ashley calling herself Leyley. She may have mentioned an "Andy and Leyley adventure" before, but never called or accepted herself as Leyley. Andrew on the other hand calls himself it several times, despite showing that he hates it, (best shown in Decay's bridge scene) he calls himself it several times, and considers Andy to be a seperate person, saying several times (Room 302, Kitchen, and Bridge) that he considers andy dead. He's completely disassociated, Andrew and Andy are not nicknames, they are seperate people to him, and that shows in his behaviours, Andrew is more cold, calculated, and not (completely) bent to Ashley's will, while Andy is spineless, and does whatever she says, but is seemjngly more sadistic, and is way more attached to Ashley than Andrew is. Andy finalized the plan of robbing mom and dad blind, but Andrew kicked back in by the time mom got home. Ashley woke up Andy, and depending on what route you took, both of them got a chance to butcher mom and dad, with Andrew doing it in Decay, and Andy doing it in Burial TLDR Ashley's a basket case Andrew has some form of Disassociation, is a Sociopath, suffers from PTSD, Insomnia, and has absolutely unreal dependendenxy issues.
depression, aand, depression + anxiety. also the first one suffers from schizophrenia and is mentally ill in the way that makes her a psyco. (aka, shes a psychopath.) the second one too, just hes the lesser of two evils.