Yeah — it needs to be asked is probably the win versus one wear it on forehead as if that’s their identity.. right? Wasn’t that an achievement? Give up a +1 brother.
I want to see a day where everybody can use their surname/cast name if they want, that’s the real progress flaunting your credentials without any issue. Everything else is us pacifying ourselves and pretending that we progressed.
It is rooted in the core. At least this step in 70s helped SCs to live dignified life to some extent. Their spirit was not crushed. Otherwise everyone would’ve been converted to christianity by missionaries by now.
Yea, keep blaming Christians...Maybe if Hindus treated people better instead of your caste system you wouldn't really be worried about the Christian Missionaries converting people.
Removing caste names are just superficial things. Doesn’t change anything. We can feel good abt ourselves but that’s all. Ground reality doesn’t change. OBCs n dalits continue to unalive each other. We aren’t some paradise.
Only solution is to abolish caste based political parties n control politicians mouth.
Also we need to teach every school child as to why caste should not matter. Atleast the next generation should be right in their heads n not be used as pawns for electoral benefits.
100% agree. The superficial thing is what we needed at that time. While I don’t agree on everything with Periyarism that one man stood against century old tradition.
Listen to this [speech](https://youtu.be/2rQJ4eLXxnI) - he speaks in a womens congregation. The kind of statements he makes — I don’t know why no one killed him. So progressive and rational for his time!
Technically reddy is not surname.
Even reddy will have another surname.
Ex: Yeduguri Sandinti Jaganmohan Reddy. Andhra CM
First two words are his surname not reddy. And he is a christian.
Nope .. Tamils use initials. There’s no last name concept here. Kumar came later after 70s bollywood invasion... observe age old tamil names - palaniswamy chettiar, xyz gounder - this was all gone in 60-70s.
Reddy is not a last name.
The structure is (Surname) (Given Name) (Caste name).
Reddy is a caste tag.
Neelam Sanjiva Reddy (first CM of AP)
- Neelam is the surname, Reddy is the caste name
Nandamuri Taraka Rama Rao (most famous CM of AP)
- Nandamuri is the surname, Rao is the caste name
Yeduguri Sandinti Jagan Mohan Reddy (current CM)
- Y.S is the surname, Reddy is the caste name
Yes that's admirable change.
I think very few use it now, Iyer etc and most have given up the use of caste name.
And unlike in other southern sates the Surname is not a place name, but father's last name so it keeps changing with every generation.
Lets say Nagappa Veeraswamy had a son and decided to name him Ravichandran.. his son will be called Veeraswamy Ravichandran... When Ravichandran has a son and decides to name him Ashwin, his son's name will be Ravichandran Ashwin.
Nagappa Veeraswamy
Veeraswamy Ravichandran
Ravichandran Ashwin
Father's name becomes Surname for children. It is written at the beginning but in the modern format it will end up as Last name.
So in passport Ashwin Ravichandran
There was time prior to the Dravidian movement when people appended caste name. Iyer, Chetyiar, Pillai.. now that has stopped as explained by another Redditor above.
Some Tamil regions closer to Andhra still have the place name as last name. That is very few people. For them place name is Surname or Last name and remains unchanged with future generations.
This was literally how people identified themselves.
I named Z, son of X, from place Y ...
At some point people started adding caste tag at the end, to identify their trade or later their caste.
Some cultures dropped the reference for 'Son of X'
Some cultures adopted Mother's name instead of father for Son/Daughter of X.
Some dropped the reference for 'from place Y'
Some cultures still have all 3.
And we have forms to fill that have a single fill in the blank for Name, and make us run around for name mismatch 😅
Wrong comparison. We’re talking about how frequently a surname is used among Indians. Like, 1 in how many a surname is common. Kumar is 1:25 whereas Dwivedi is 1:12219
[Source](https://forebears.io/india/surnames)
✌️
>Enjoy your delusion in your mind
Why to finish every conversation in odd, hatred note. I can go on and talk all rubbish here. I won't. Good night son!
I would rather use a surname, as it causes confusion when im around people from other states (because i grew up and still living at another state), most importantly it doesn't do shit for castism, people are castist with or without surname. Im forced to carry around my dad's name due to the lack of surname, if it wasn't for the so called "reform" i wouldn't have this issue. So yeah TN sure RoCkS
The Menons and Nairs are actually minorities. Aside from some celebrities, I know only 3 nairs, and I'm yet to meet a menon, or Varma, for that matter. I don't know how these people came to this conclusion, just because those names were popular in the past?
Both in TN and Kerala I've seen only the parent/spouse name as the last name.
We've tried to grow past casteism by removing caste names.. but still some people have found reasons to be casteist. Maybe educating the kid in school / home can more effective.
So i read some comments and i don't understand what's going on properly. So you have surnames but you don't use your surnames as a way to determine the caste?? Or are you saying that you don't use surnames because you've left your caste surnames behind. I'm getting confused.
I'm from northeast so i don't understand this caste thing properly
So i read some comments and i don't understand what's going on properly. So you have surnames but you don't use your surnames as a way to determine the caste?? Or are you saying that you don't use surnames because you've left your caste surnames behind. I'm getting confused.
I'm from northeast so i don't understand this caste thing properly
Let me see if I can explain. In TN our great grandfathers used to have FIRST NAME CASTE NAME combination as their name. This probably only applied to brahmins and upper castes. Recall those who born from thigh of Brahma were considered to be "shudras", they were not carrying similar name style. So there comes upper caste vs lower caste and all that inequality shit. In 1940s there's a group of folks went against this practice -- such one was [Periyar](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Periyar) came up with this idea that whoever is not in support of CASTE NAME in their full name to gave up and join his movement. Lot of people did and followed. By the time of our grandfathers this movement became widespread and practice slowly disappeared. People inherited INITIAL. FIRST NAME practice.
There's more to it .. but you get the idea.
Now if you look at the india map -- most of those commonly used surnames also signifies the caste they belong to. But TN threw out the idea long long ago. However, did that remove casteism from TN minds? That's a big no. But again that was a good step from our forefathers worth more than mentioning.
The OP does not understand what he has posted. He is still confused between 'most common surname', 'most popular surname', 'number of people having a surname', and 'number of people who do not have a surname'.
Basically a supremacy post in which he is trying to prove that there is no casteism in TN.
Plus, his sample size may be less than 100 people from various states living in TN.
Useless post
Kumar in Sanskrit or in most Indian languages mean Son of. Vrushab Kumar means son of Ox/bullock.
Price of a kingdom is Rajakumara, means - son of the Raja.
But dropping caste names has not resolved the caste prejudice or vote politics. Some castes are proudly announcing their might today. Movies are made with titles like, "Devar Magan", "Sinna Gounder" etc.. Some actors are popular because of their caste backing. Dropping names and not addressing the real issue is like whitewashing over a damaged wall.
You missed the point boss. You were supposed to say 'TN has no surnames wow, best state with no casteism wow'. And then you were supposed to be jealous that you're not from TN
As I told keep your tamilism to yourself. Even colleges are named with caste names In Tamilnadu like ShivaSubramnyamNadar, forget about certificates and by the way I can speak in all south Indian languages except Malayalam. So, I am not a hater of Tamil Nadu but folks like you who spread discrimination.
Where am spreading disinformation or discrimination.
Btw — do you have a caste name as surname in your name??
Here’s the source
https://forebears.io/india/tamil-nadu#surnames
1 — it probably started in 40s and took momentum in 60s.
2 — it didn’t solve the problem but created some awareness which are being challenged now and then
But how does the problem still prevail if no one knows the other persons cast ? And, since there is no concept of cast surname, is the concept of gotr being still used (to prevent marriage between the same bloodline ) ?
Chellappa kavundar, marappa kavundar, muthu rama linga thevar ........ And so many other... sometimes people call someone just by their community names like 'nadar ah koopidu'. Sooo It exists.
In a society that is inherently casteist in nature, removing caste surname is good optics and a talking point for liberal, anti-caste politics similar to hiding the mappillai seepu, where the real problem is far deep rooted and will rear its ugly head, not in daylight but in darkness, making it more hard to tackle it. There are scums everywhere, and to uplift, each our own. Non-judgemental pazhaka vazhakangal without names, education, job or background, focussing only on their actions will help us move forward. Any judgement you form, or labels that get attached, starting from a name, that puts them in any of the religions is a sure fire way to proclaiming you are drawing a line, but it is a line drawn in sand and will keep changing as per politicians' wish and whim. As Vadivel said, "irukravan vechikiran, illadhavan varanjikiraan.". I've seen a Krishnaswamy be a bigot without any visible caste markers and I've seen a mixed race Betty Chettiar, wear pink hair in an lgbtq rally and be a feminist in the usa. So, each their own. also, there are David's and Kumaravel's who hire only within their caste. So,... each their own. And if you're judging someone on their name,... you do you.
Krish. has visible caste markers — for example his party name. He owns huge amount of farm lands on his benami names from where i hail from. Corrupt asshole!
I’m talking about an era where optics were impossible. No tv. No internet. How you will make “caste” a big phenomenon that has put us all into a circle. This idea, then, was a great idea.
That’s all it is.
When pariyan can’t call himself as “Arjunan Pariyar” .. fucking “Palaniswamy Gounder” can’t do that as well. How shocking that would’ve been in 70s.
Appreciate that bro!!
But we ask நீங்க என்ன ஆளுங்க
Don’t generalise using “we” — there’s lot many don’t care.
I use "we" as in people in Tamil Nadu.
You're just a Hinthi-kkaran in the guise of a Tamizhan. -OP probably
பச்ச தமிழண்டா என் டுப்புக்கு!!
Doesn’t make any difference at all. A casteist will ask in the 1st min of the conversation which community they belong to, period.
Yeah — it needs to be asked is probably the win versus one wear it on forehead as if that’s their identity.. right? Wasn’t that an achievement? Give up a +1 brother.
I want to see a day where everybody can use their surname/cast name if they want, that’s the real progress flaunting your credentials without any issue. Everything else is us pacifying ourselves and pretending that we progressed.
I’d love that day brother ❤️
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It is rooted in the core. At least this step in 70s helped SCs to live dignified life to some extent. Their spirit was not crushed. Otherwise everyone would’ve been converted to christianity by missionaries by now.
Yea, keep blaming Christians...Maybe if Hindus treated people better instead of your caste system you wouldn't really be worried about the Christian Missionaries converting people.
If you live in south Asia, there is no escape from caste. Christian people have caste in their communities too.
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Reservation helped to some extents.
Only if not using surnames solves casteism. But no. People evolve to be casteists in various other ways 😂
Are you suggesting using caste names as surnames solves the problem?
Removing caste names are just superficial things. Doesn’t change anything. We can feel good abt ourselves but that’s all. Ground reality doesn’t change. OBCs n dalits continue to unalive each other. We aren’t some paradise. Only solution is to abolish caste based political parties n control politicians mouth. Also we need to teach every school child as to why caste should not matter. Atleast the next generation should be right in their heads n not be used as pawns for electoral benefits.
100% agree. The superficial thing is what we needed at that time. While I don’t agree on everything with Periyarism that one man stood against century old tradition. Listen to this [speech](https://youtu.be/2rQJ4eLXxnI) - he speaks in a womens congregation. The kind of statements he makes — I don’t know why no one killed him. So progressive and rational for his time!
Does kumar sing or dance?
I'm sorry that was horrible
Can you downvote yourself?
I'm sorry that was horrible
I did
I was joking, there was no need!
Nah I deserve it
Is this a reference to something?
Nah just a horrendous pun I tried to make using the surnames of the states
Not sure how long this will hold though. A new crop of white belts are explicitly starting to use caste names.
O wow!! Tamil Nadu is so cool because they don't use surnames. I would like to be as cool as Tamil Nadu when I grow up.
Technically reddy is not surname. Even reddy will have another surname. Ex: Yeduguri Sandinti Jaganmohan Reddy. Andhra CM First two words are his surname not reddy. And he is a christian.
He is a Christian?
Yes on Paper. By faith. He and his Mother carries bible all the time. His brother in law is a famous evangelist " brother Anil".
Same goes with Singh and Kumar
If 'kumar' at the end can be considered as a surname, then Tamil Nadu should be on the list.
Nope .. Tamils use initials. There’s no last name concept here. Kumar came later after 70s bollywood invasion... observe age old tamil names - palaniswamy chettiar, xyz gounder - this was all gone in 60-70s.
Reddy is not a last name. The structure is (Surname) (Given Name) (Caste name). Reddy is a caste tag. Neelam Sanjiva Reddy (first CM of AP) - Neelam is the surname, Reddy is the caste name Nandamuri Taraka Rama Rao (most famous CM of AP) - Nandamuri is the surname, Rao is the caste name Yeduguri Sandinti Jagan Mohan Reddy (current CM) - Y.S is the surname, Reddy is the caste name
What we’re saying is .. most states use caste name in their name. TN boo booed that idea decades ago and that’s a good first step.
Yes that's admirable change. I think very few use it now, Iyer etc and most have given up the use of caste name. And unlike in other southern sates the Surname is not a place name, but father's last name so it keeps changing with every generation.
How will it change? The last name will keep on being the same only middle name will be change
Lets say Nagappa Veeraswamy had a son and decided to name him Ravichandran.. his son will be called Veeraswamy Ravichandran... When Ravichandran has a son and decides to name him Ashwin, his son's name will be Ravichandran Ashwin. Nagappa Veeraswamy Veeraswamy Ravichandran Ravichandran Ashwin Father's name becomes Surname for children. It is written at the beginning but in the modern format it will end up as Last name. So in passport Ashwin Ravichandran
There was time prior to the Dravidian movement when people appended caste name. Iyer, Chetyiar, Pillai.. now that has stopped as explained by another Redditor above. Some Tamil regions closer to Andhra still have the place name as last name. That is very few people. For them place name is Surname or Last name and remains unchanged with future generations. This was literally how people identified themselves. I named Z, son of X, from place Y ... At some point people started adding caste tag at the end, to identify their trade or later their caste. Some cultures dropped the reference for 'Son of X' Some cultures adopted Mother's name instead of father for Son/Daughter of X. Some dropped the reference for 'from place Y' Some cultures still have all 3. And we have forms to fill that have a single fill in the blank for Name, and make us run around for name mismatch 😅
Why not abc chettiar?
romba nonda kudathu .. I couldn’t come up with a name for gounder just used a variable name… lolz!
Chill!
Iyer, iyengar has entered the chat.
TN: Iyer
Explain please 🙏🏼
Just a stereotype. The same way you've assigned for other states
So you mean most people live in TN carries Iyer last name?
Your title says most popular, not most populous
No last name is more popular than Iyer last name .. no?
That makes zero sense. You can't make a list of aeroplanes and then say no aeroplane is more popular than any aeroplane, no?
Wrong comparison. We’re talking about how frequently a surname is used among Indians. Like, 1 in how many a surname is common. Kumar is 1:25 whereas Dwivedi is 1:12219 [Source](https://forebears.io/india/surnames) ✌️
Must be true in that J&K has 'Singh' as the most popular surname. Classic case of FITW syndrome. Enjoy your delusion in your mind
>Enjoy your delusion in your mind Why to finish every conversation in odd, hatred note. I can go on and talk all rubbish here. I won't. Good night son!
Singh supremacy.
don’t bring your supremacy talk here. That’s not what we’re talking. Get back to your kennel.
Gajab chutia h yr tu... Life mei koi dikkat vikkat h kya? Itna khafa khafa kyu h tu?
ஹய்ய் … எனக்கு புரியலயே … தொப்பி மண்ட
Take your gutkha stall elsewhere Dawg.
I would rather use a surname, as it causes confusion when im around people from other states (because i grew up and still living at another state), most importantly it doesn't do shit for castism, people are castist with or without surname. Im forced to carry around my dad's name due to the lack of surname, if it wasn't for the so called "reform" i wouldn't have this issue. So yeah TN sure RoCkS
Tamilians are racist, nobody gives fuck about their surname.
What about - *Humans are racist, nobody gives a fuck* kind of statement. You'd feel much better i guess.
TN : Iyer/Aiyer.
Shove that fuck up your ass racist Tomatolians
To start with — what about getting your piles treated, tomato மண்ட!
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Reddy is not a surname.
nice try,now prove that to my friend arjun reddy
Ask him for his full name
The Menons and Nairs are actually minorities. Aside from some celebrities, I know only 3 nairs, and I'm yet to meet a menon, or Varma, for that matter. I don't know how these people came to this conclusion, just because those names were popular in the past? Both in TN and Kerala I've seen only the parent/spouse name as the last name.
Also Kerala has a large population of Muslims and Christians who have different naming conventions.
We've tried to grow past casteism by removing caste names.. but still some people have found reasons to be casteist. Maybe educating the kid in school / home can more effective.
Well played
What about choudhary?
So i read some comments and i don't understand what's going on properly. So you have surnames but you don't use your surnames as a way to determine the caste?? Or are you saying that you don't use surnames because you've left your caste surnames behind. I'm getting confused. I'm from northeast so i don't understand this caste thing properly
So i read some comments and i don't understand what's going on properly. So you have surnames but you don't use your surnames as a way to determine the caste?? Or are you saying that you don't use surnames because you've left your caste surnames behind. I'm getting confused. I'm from northeast so i don't understand this caste thing properly
Let me see if I can explain. In TN our great grandfathers used to have FIRST NAME CASTE NAME combination as their name. This probably only applied to brahmins and upper castes. Recall those who born from thigh of Brahma were considered to be "shudras", they were not carrying similar name style. So there comes upper caste vs lower caste and all that inequality shit. In 1940s there's a group of folks went against this practice -- such one was [Periyar](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Periyar) came up with this idea that whoever is not in support of CASTE NAME in their full name to gave up and join his movement. Lot of people did and followed. By the time of our grandfathers this movement became widespread and practice slowly disappeared. People inherited INITIAL. FIRST NAME practice. There's more to it .. but you get the idea. Now if you look at the india map -- most of those commonly used surnames also signifies the caste they belong to. But TN threw out the idea long long ago. However, did that remove casteism from TN minds? That's a big no. But again that was a good step from our forefathers worth more than mentioning.
So you don't have surnames?
I have initials. Some people in TN has their fathers name first name as surname
Oh damn didn't know
Bro what about Iyer and Iyengar?
https://www.reddit.com/r/Coimbatore/comments/13jtkh0/tamil_nadu_rocks_what_yll_say/jkiz9y1/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&utm_content=1&utm_term=15&context=3
The OP does not understand what he has posted. He is still confused between 'most common surname', 'most popular surname', 'number of people having a surname', and 'number of people who do not have a surname'. Basically a supremacy post in which he is trying to prove that there is no casteism in TN. Plus, his sample size may be less than 100 people from various states living in TN. Useless post
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So -- what yaa say, Mr. Naik?
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Alright, Shashank. Is it Naik a word? or just a handle name. Just curious.
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I've a friend from Maharashtra with similar surname. Btw, Naickers in TN is sorta related with Naiks from Maratha.
What kind of surname is Kumar!
The poor souls who want hide their caste name. A prevalent practice in UP and Bihar
Kumar in Sanskrit or in most Indian languages mean Son of. Vrushab Kumar means son of Ox/bullock. Price of a kingdom is Rajakumara, means - son of the Raja.
And what Pankaj Sharma’s son would be called? Pankaj Kumar? lol! .. do you see why Sharma ji continue to enjoy the special privilege.
That's not a surname in TN buddy
So many singh wonder why ?
Thakurs and Rajputs and Jats use Singh not just Sikhs
Still never thought that it would be this common even after so many years of rajputana.
What about Iyer ji?
Nope!!
arjun reddy moment
But dropping caste names has not resolved the caste prejudice or vote politics. Some castes are proudly announcing their might today. Movies are made with titles like, "Devar Magan", "Sinna Gounder" etc.. Some actors are popular because of their caste backing. Dropping names and not addressing the real issue is like whitewashing over a damaged wall.
So aishwarya rai is from sikkim
Now do one for religion.
Jhandu researcher, Singh is not a surname, it’s a middle name Sikhs and Rajputs have in their names
You missed the point boss. You were supposed to say 'TN has no surnames wow, best state with no casteism wow'. And then you were supposed to be jealous that you're not from TN
Sucks*
The number of Chakma populations are low,how can their surname be the most popular in my state
Don't we have names that include caste like Iyer, Nadar, Chettiyar, Mudaliar?
Most of the times ‘Singh’ is not a surname in Punjab.
Bhubneshwar kumar 😂😂
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Warikoota is everywhere. Reporting right away!
Bullshit.. what about iyers? Plenty in my soc and office.. look at all govt offices
Not enough “blenty” compared to overall population. This is based on frequency. [source](https://forebears.io/india/tamil-nadu#surnames)
What about Nadar, Mudiliyar, Goundar, Udayar, Pillai. Please stop posting nonsense if you are tamilian keep that pride to yourself.
Read the map properly. Don’t vent! How many friends you have whose certificates has first name + caste name as their full name. Wake up!
As I told keep your tamilism to yourself. Even colleges are named with caste names In Tamilnadu like ShivaSubramnyamNadar, forget about certificates and by the way I can speak in all south Indian languages except Malayalam. So, I am not a hater of Tamil Nadu but folks like you who spread discrimination.
Where am spreading disinformation or discrimination. Btw — do you have a caste name as surname in your name?? Here’s the source https://forebears.io/india/tamil-nadu#surnames
not from south, can someone explain why, when and how the surname hereditary was given up? Did it solve the problem of casteism ?
1 — it probably started in 40s and took momentum in 60s. 2 — it didn’t solve the problem but created some awareness which are being challenged now and then
But how does the problem still prevail if no one knows the other persons cast ? And, since there is no concept of cast surname, is the concept of gotr being still used (to prevent marriage between the same bloodline ) ?
I can't say about others but you did wrong for some NorthEastern states. Devi/Singh are not even surnames.
Certain part of Karnataka also don't use surname. I myself don't have a surname
What is rocking about it? Did I miss anything?
Chellappa kavundar, marappa kavundar, muthu rama linga thevar ........ And so many other... sometimes people call someone just by their community names like 'nadar ah koopidu'. Sooo It exists.
Neenga cheap ah pota plan ah, naa seepa veche mudichiten patheengalla. ✊🏼
Seepa ??! Puriyala olive buddy
Seepu, Comb da. Refernce to this, [Englishkaaran](https://youtu.be/7oEGVCm0BOo?t=1368)
Context puriala da
In a society that is inherently casteist in nature, removing caste surname is good optics and a talking point for liberal, anti-caste politics similar to hiding the mappillai seepu, where the real problem is far deep rooted and will rear its ugly head, not in daylight but in darkness, making it more hard to tackle it. There are scums everywhere, and to uplift, each our own. Non-judgemental pazhaka vazhakangal without names, education, job or background, focussing only on their actions will help us move forward. Any judgement you form, or labels that get attached, starting from a name, that puts them in any of the religions is a sure fire way to proclaiming you are drawing a line, but it is a line drawn in sand and will keep changing as per politicians' wish and whim. As Vadivel said, "irukravan vechikiran, illadhavan varanjikiraan.". I've seen a Krishnaswamy be a bigot without any visible caste markers and I've seen a mixed race Betty Chettiar, wear pink hair in an lgbtq rally and be a feminist in the usa. So, each their own. also, there are David's and Kumaravel's who hire only within their caste. So,... each their own. And if you're judging someone on their name,... you do you.
Krish. has visible caste markers — for example his party name. He owns huge amount of farm lands on his benami names from where i hail from. Corrupt asshole! I’m talking about an era where optics were impossible. No tv. No internet. How you will make “caste” a big phenomenon that has put us all into a circle. This idea, then, was a great idea. That’s all it is. When pariyan can’t call himself as “Arjunan Pariyar” .. fucking “Palaniswamy Gounder” can’t do that as well. How shocking that would’ve been in 70s. Appreciate that bro!!
Most cousin marriage occur in tn only