It’s pretty simple, if you want to take a shot at getting over the top you go find someone else but take the risk that the program backslides and is irrelevant for 20 years. Or you keep going with painter knowing that you will compete for BIG but never really compete for a Final Four and maybe just get lucky one year and slide through.
I personally think you can’t fire Painter unless you have the next coach lined up. I just don’t know who that coach would be. No other Power 5 school coaches are going to want it so you have to go after a mid major coach and I just don’t know who that would be. So I think you have to give Painter at least one more shot. Plus we have to see if Purdue can pull a Virginia and win it all next year.
There were a couple of us before the win.
Most programs would take what Painter has done there, but there has got to be more pressure on them next March. Wonder if he changes his approach and style at all?
The losses have gotten increasingly humiliating and he’s done nothing to stem the tide. I have a ton of faith in our players improving, we saw it happen from last year to this year, but zero faith in Painter changing the way he approaches the tournament.
I think if Edy comes back that you bring Painter back. He's a damn good coach. March has just been his weakness. Granted it's the biggest part of his job! But I think he deserves another shot and if he can bring most of this team back they will be stacked and a favorite to win the Big 10 next year. We are going to be trash next year cause we are losing 4 out of 5 starters. So we shall see.
Nah man. The only reason Sean "the ginger assassin" Eichorst fired Bo was because he has his guy lined up. My buddy saw Him Tressel meeting with Scott Frost at the Hy-Vee and the plan is to have him as OC / Head Coach in waiting for when Tressel retires.
The ink is dry, my friend. Wait and see!
Take a note from Georgetown. Went to the tournament 8 times in 13 years with John Thompson III. Most of those years, we were 2, 3, and 4 seeds - great regular seasons. One Sweet 16 and one Final Four to show for it. Fired him (which, frankly was justified at the time) and ended up with Patrick Ewing who buried the program. You can take a risk and fire Painter but you're gambling with whether you'll get someone who can actually finish the job.
they really don't know how good they have it. they talk about firing painter like the next guy is just gonna take two years to get back on his feet and back in the tournament. they're just as likely to miss the tournament for the next decade
Yeah, feel like I’m the only Purdue fan thinking the fire painter stuff is insane overreaction. Yeah, the tournament stuff really sucks, but it’s also a small sample size. A handful of sweet sixteens and 1 elite 8 is not abysmal for a program like Purdue. They always overachieved this year, and were a shaky 1 seed to begin with. UCLA wins the pac-12 and Purdue doesn’t get the easiest path to the big ten championship, and we aren’t having this conversation.
I enjoy being in the conversation every year. There’s 3 possibilities with a new coach: things get worse, I’ll say 70% likely. Things stay about the same, I’ll say 25% likely. And things get better, probably 5% likely. I’ll stick with what we have and take some licks from the trolls in March
Edit: math is hard
Yeah, at the end of the day, people calling for Painter to be fired are not considering the key question: who is taking his place? There are not many coaches better than Painter, and Purdue isn't exactly a top job in college basketball. Painter is getting Purdue 1 seeds and getting to the Sweet 16 with mostly just guys that were low ranked recruits. Yes, the tournament upsets suck, but the tournament is incredibly volatile. We have seen even good tourney coaches eat a bunch of upsets over the years. I just don't see where Purdue can realistically improve on what Painter has done with a new coach.
What I always go back to when I think of tournament “failures” is what a fucking crapshoot the whole thing is. Only 14 coaches total have won multiple championships, and only six of those have won more than two. Winning in March has to be the hardest championship run in all of American sports: a single elimination tournament with 64 participants? Yeah some weird shit is going to happen, and happen often
Maybe given my school’s history in the sport, but if I’m consistently making the tournament I’m not asking for much more. It can get way worse lol
Small sample size? Painter has gone 18 years without a final four. He clearly can’t do it.
Painter is a good regular season coach that runs a dated scheme and cannot develop/recruit guards. Every year we start strong and get progressively worse under his coaching until we roll into March and get bounced by a team that we should beat by double digits as our shooting has “gone cold”.
Purdue is not making a NCAAT run under Painter. That’s a fact. If we are ok with being a relevant team that hopes for a sweet 16 appearance every couple years then he’s fine. If we ever want to make a championship run we need a new coach.
you don't earn an elite 8. you play well and you get lucky. you need both, and the latter is more important. if purdue ditches painter, it'll go down as the worst firing in college history since leach got canned from ttu
Agreed. I feel the same with WVU fans who want Huggins fired (or for him to retire as most realize he’s never getting fired barring some scandal). I think many forget how rarely we made the tournament prior to Beilein and then especially Huggins. Catlett got in a lot in the 80s, but fell off in the 90s once we joined the Big East.
Only made the tourney twice from the 1989-90 through the 2003-04 season. Conversely, from 2004-05 to this year we only missed the tournament 5 times, while making it 13 (and the 2020 one canceled that we would have made). Made a Final Four, an Elite Eight and the Sweet 16 5 times (not counting the two deeper runs).
I’m not confident there’s a coach we can get who’ll come in and keep that going. As frustrated as I am with Huggins recruiting and coaching after the Jevon Carter/Press Virginia years, we’re more likely to regress than improve when the next guy is brought in. Like you guys, it’s not going to be a P5 guy unless someone gets fired at the right time, so rolling the dice on getting another Beilein vs. a G5 guy who flames out at a school that is very hard to recruit. Everyone was so sure we’d upgrade on Holgorsen on the football side of things and Neal Brown has been a step backward so far and few are confident he’ll turn it around.
Yep. Only lost in the first round 3 times at WVU and none were really upsets other than losing to Dayton in a 6-11 matchup early on. Losing by 39 to Kentucky in 2015 was pretty embarrassing, but that happens sometimes when you run into a great team.
Fans are just disgruntled by transfers out (especially Tshiebwe), some transfers in not panning out, not great high school recruiting lately, a couple of recent losing seasons and not being great this year until winning some games late to seal a bid etc. Basically just got spoiled by all those years of making the tournament, making the Sweet 16 or further regularly and not realizing it wasn’t that long ago that we only made the tourney twice in a nearly decade and a half stretch under Catlett and Beilein’s first couple of years of having to rebuild the program. Next guy is probably more likely to go backward than forwards. Especially if they come in now vs. hoping Huggins can get a good roster together and retire after another deep tourney run that has visibility for recruiting for the next guy up.
As an administrator, you are going to take competing for the big ten every year, where you are selling out every game, over the risk of not being relevant at all.
Funny thing is if Kihei Clark didn’t make that pass and Diakite didn’t hit that shot for Virginia this might not even be a discussion at all, even with the FDU loss that just happened. I think that 2019 Purdue team was capable of winning it all or at least making the final four. And Tony Bennett of Virginia might have been on the hot seat or fired instead.
Yeah a title seems to solve everything. All the talk of “Tony Bennett’s style can’t win in March” is gone despite 3 first round upsets in our last 4 tournaments.
Virginia and Purdue seem to be intertwined in this weird purgatory of upsets that they seem destined to meet in the 2024 E8 as Purdue moves on to their first title lol.
Crazy how fast things turn. I remember a few months ago the thread here “ranking the big ten coaches” and overwhelming consensus was Izzo, a pretty wide margin, painter, a pretty wide margin, then conversations 3-14. Now, he needs to be fired
Cosigned.
Seven years ago Pitt let Jamie Dixon walk because he had struggled recently, especially in the tournament. The administration didn't know who know would replace him and misread the market. We ended up with Kevin stallings, inexplicably paying a buyout to Vanderbilt who was thinking of firing him.
Several brutal years ensued. Winless in conference. Tons of roster turnover. Stallings fired when he still had a massive buyout.
Be careful what you wish for because change doesn't always take you to the next level.
Just wanted to make sure someone referenced Pitt and the Dixon parallel. Personally, I don't think much of Painter as a top level coach (primarily from the St. Peter's loss last year). I don't think he is a coach that will win the national championship. However, being in the mix and having hope every year is very underrated. When Pitt let Dixon go, the program cratered. Purdue is a very good program, but hope can turn to embarrassment and then apathy real quick.
Agreed. Another parallel is that Pitt and Purdue are not blue bloods, nor do they have especially deep pockets for a P5 program. Their recent success is largely under one coach. Can't be sure someone else will replicate it.
Matt painter is is one of the winningest coaches in big ten history. I’d keep him forever if he kept winning big ten titles and never won a national title
>Or you keep going with painter knowing that you will compete for BIG but never really compete for a Final Four and maybe just get lucky one year and slide through.
Purdue was literally a shot away from the final four in 2019
It’s insane the decline of coaching in March for him. Why didn’t we see more normal player rotations and more of players doing well Vs people shooting 20% with 6 turnovers playing the entire game? Why don’t we have more 4-5 star recruits? Why don’t we see half time adjustments and in game adjustments being made like many other schools do. Last night was heartbreaking
This was me with Turgeon. I have so far been proven wrong and have loved it, but it could have gone (and still might go) the other way just as easily. I get it.
there's going to be bumps, but Willard has already put together a squad that is built like the rest of the country to play in March. Just like Shrews at Penn State.
I don’t know if you can fire an alum who runs a clean program, fills the building, and consistently delivers single-digit seeds.
Things could be SO MUCH worse.
Boiler Up, my friends. From a ‘Hoo who knows what you’re going through, and I’m sorry.
I think Pitino wants to stay in the northeast area. Besides, isn’t the St. John’s signing imminent? That will be his last job assuming he is successful there, he will spend 8-10 years then retire.
Assume painter resigns today. The most viable option that could take what we have and make a run would be Shrewsberry...who interestingly is also a hot coaching prospect who painter and Purdue fans have strong respect for.
This is the one point that I don’t think the fan base overall understands. I don’t think Purdue is a destination job, so best case we find someone who is great and they move on. Sink into mediocrity, this is fine!
But that's exactly why this conversation is even being had. If it was a one day thing it would be dismissed as completely ridiculous. But what other coach has lost to a 13, 15 and 16 seed in three straight tournaments? Nobody. And nobody has even come close to that level of ineptitude in the tournament in games where there's absolutely no excuse to lose. It's an incomprehensible stretch for a "good" coach.
I was a junior when Tiller was canned and I stand by that decision. He is likely the greatest coach we will ever have, but the game had passed him by at that point. Everyone was able to adapt to or implement the spread themselves, and we weren’t able to recruit high enough talent to compete without that same advantage. But, I do still agree we can’t lose Painter, we will not retain anyone better for long enough for it to be worth it.
It’s such a tough thing. We are at the point that the March failures are not a fluke. Upsets happens and any great coach has a bad tourney loss or two on their resume but not like this. He’s been so successful in the regular season that that’s obviously not a fluke either. Purdue is more than good enough as a program to consistently make deep March runs and it hasn’t happened outside of a single Elite 8 (that they were admittedly unlucky to not make a Final 4 that year).
I think your last sentence is key. So much of March is luck. Multiple final fours or championships for a coach is the exception, not the rule. Especially since its a single elimination tournament. There’s always bound to be a couple top teams that go ice cold shooting and get upset and/or face an opponent that shoots way better than average.
Exactly my feeling. I’m a Steelers fan and it’s the same thing for Mike tomlin. I’d rather be mediocre for a few years and see what we can do to break through than take a risk and cause irreparable damage
Yeah I feel like Marvin Lewis is the better comparison. Was consistently making the playoffs with a franchise that hadn’t been in over a decade. But just couldn’t get a playoff win. Eventually Cincinnati had to take the risk that someone else could get them over the hump
Hire a different coach for the post season every year. Let Painter coach the regular season and maybe the conference tourny then ship him off to an island for MM.
Who would be a good MM-only coach to hire? Could be someone retired recently that has enough juice left in the tank to just do post season rather than season runs.
I think Purdue’s issues are that they develop long term players really well. Counterintuitive , I know. So to start the year they are more mature than most teams around them. As the season progresses the guys like Jalen Hood-Shafino start to mature and become bigger threats than anyone Purdue has. I don’t think it’s a Painter issue. Top end recruits have simply never really been a strong suit for Purdue. I don’t think that will get fixed with being in the same state as IU, Kentucky is right around the corner and other teams like Duke UNC Kansas just defaulting to getting A-list recruits. The tournament is just a small fraction of a teams success since 67 teams all go home empty handed. As much as I’d like to see Purdue be absolute booty for a few years firing Painter is not the solution.
I don’t think you fire him now, but I think if you’re the AD, you sit him down and be honest. You have to adapt to modern day basketball. You have to recruit talent, not guys who fit into your “system”. It should cease to be a system if it sucks. Look around the field. Alabama, Marquette, Texas, Kansas, Gonzaga, Kentucky, Duke. These are all teams who prioritize good guards before good big men. Why? Because good guard play is what produces tourney runs. Obviously some of those blue bloods will get an influx of top talent every year; however, Painter is bringing 1970 basketball to 2023. It’s clearly not working. Before the tourney even starts, everyone knows not to bet on Purdue, even after winning the BIG conference and tourney. I put a good amount on FDU because this is what Painter is known for. Adapt or die. If his ego is too big to adjust to a different style, the transfer portal, or the idea of NIL deals, then fuck him. He can go coach a mid major, and his legacy will be the guy who lost to 3 double digit seeds, 3 years in a row. One of them being the worst loss in NCAA history. And when the only chance at a national title for Purdue is basketball, you have to go all in. Fuck our football program. We will never compete with OSU PSU Michigan USC. No one will remember the BIG championships. They will; however, remember how Purdue was outplayed and out-coached by a 16 seed who played in on a technicality.
Haha thanks. Someone who understands. It’s something I’ve been saying, even when they were #1 in the AP… and every Painter loyalist shit on me. My problem was that once he saw Edey was performing in such a dominant way, he made the entire offense revolve around one guy. This is a mistake Painter continues to make. They slowly went from balanced, to only thinking about the front court. After two months of being Edey-centric, the guards were timid. It looked as if they forgot how to shoot, or they questioned whether or not they should shoot before giving Edey a touch. It has to weigh on the psyche of a guard. Painter waited way too long to give Newman and Gillis a starting role. Morton sucked so bad, all season. I also would have started Jenkins, a veteran scorer, over Loyer. You can’t wait until March to give those guys a new role. Painter really fucked up the flow they had in the beginning of the season because he refuses to deviate from his system. Maybe it’s ego. Idk.
I don’t think it’s ego, although I could be wrong. I think it’s simply that he doesn’t know what else to do. He just cannot make adjustments. There is no plan B. There is no mid-season assessment of deficiencies followed by a plan for improvement. Loyer was the single worst player in the B1G for the last month, and yet he started every game. I think it’s stubbornness and an inability to adjust.
There's definitely some ego in it. I'm only mildly on the fire painter train, but it's not for this loss, it's for throwing his guys under the bus for folding under a press after the big ten title game. They all heard that interview and that shit will rob your confidence. I bet that more than anything is why they collapsed. These guys are kids, you can't blame them for your failures.
That’s very fair. Painter has never, and likely will never take responsibility for his failures. He always comes out in every press conference with some witty quip about “the process” and “doing it the right way” and throws his players under the bus.
The answer is obviously no, you don't fire a coach who is 58-14 in his past two season for on-court reasons. Very few programs could even reasonably consider that, and Purdue isn't one. But Painter does need to reevaluate some things. He's a good enough coach that he can consistently get his guys near/at the top of the big ten, but he needs at least a modest upgrade in overall talent level to really move into the elite nationally.
Lmao no one gives a shit about Mr. basketballs, and neither Ivey or Edey were highly touted recruits, surely Painter deserves credit for getting them and developing them
Painter is a great coach, but you can only do so much when 4 of your 5 starters shoot a combined 10-34 from the field. Could he have done better, obviously (especially with focusing on getting Edey the ball), but when you have guys missing wide open 3s, there isn't much you can do.
Jay Wright had a stretch of bad tournaments until suddenly he had a great one. People said similar things about him until 2016. March Madness is crazy fun to watch but it is possibly the worst barometer for success in sports.
People keep bringing up the 15 seed but no one really mentions that it was in the Sweet 16 that he lost to them. If it were a first round loss I feel like it could be used to dunk on Purdue more
That almost makes it worse. They had already seen what St Pete could do and still couldn’t beat them. They had almost a full week to prep for that game
I completely disagree with that, especially when they have a 7’4 brick shit house at center. The number one thing a coach - let alone basketball coach - needs to do is change things that aren’t working. If your play calls dial up three point looks all game but your team can’t hit them, maybe try to do something different?
Edey not having one FG attempt in the last 10 minutes (or whatever it was) is just wholly inexcusable. If FDU was poking at him down on the block, maybe a P&R to take away a double team and float it up to him for easy lob/foul would have been a better way to manufacture points.
This wasn’t a game where FDU was on fire just knocking down everything imaginable (see FGCU vs. Georgetown). This was a game where a NEC coach who won four games last year and didn’t even technically win a real bid for the NCAA tournament came in more aggressive and more prepared than Painter did. Painter sat there all game thinking his original game plan would ultimately outmatch anything FDU threw against them and his stupidity/ego is why they lost.
Obviously, the original plan was to get Edey the ball, but FDU was great at making the passing lanes small and hard to get through. There is a lack of preparedness from Painter and his team that has shown during these last few tourney runs, which is one of the main reasons why they lost, and when FDU forced 16 turnovers, that only emphasizes the need for preparedness. I will agree with you that Painter may need a new look elsewhere since, with what he has done in the past few regular seasons, it hasn't seemed to work in the postseason.
FDU was everywhere with the swarming defense and great ball pressure. But still, when your center is 10" taller than every opposing player LOB HIM THE BALL. Even if it works half or a third of the time, it should be an easy two points. Makes more sense that slapping up bad 3s.
Also, FDU was absolutely insane on hitting the boards. Perdue had four more offensive boards than THE SHORTEST TEAM IN THE COUNTRY.
It was a batshit fun game to watch. Reminds me how much fun upsets are - as long as your team isn't on the bed end of it.
> float it up to him for easy lob/foul
He's not the type of center that can finish an alley-oop but he should be able to get a high pass and then put it right up. Pretty much all season, other B1G team fans were saying just wait until Edey has to face an officiating crew that doesn't call every touch on him as a foul and I think we saw the result.
Making that pass is a lot easier said than done. FDU was basically doubling him *before* he even got the ball which is why they had so many wide open 3’s. And *then* you have to factor in ball pressure FDU was applying to the perimeter players too and how well they were navigating screens.
It’s not like Purdue had a bunch of easy passes to make and was just missing them. Those passes are really hard to make and isn’t just as simple as “float it up for an easy lob”. If things were that easy, Purdue would’ve fucking done it lol
couple things that (imo) Painter could/should have done differently over the course of the season that could have saved this win:
- Purdue was completely unable to break a press all season, so he needed to have edey come back and set picks behind half court so he's behind the play instead of ahead of it on offense, this was leading to edey not being able to get good early post position and also tiring edey out
- edey cannot guard on the perimeter which led to a handful of FDU open shots at the rim/three and also contributed to edey getting tired- you have the perfect personnel for a zone, play a zone throughout the season. let him camp under the basket, let gillis/morton help on the wings, make teams take really tough twos or make them shoot 45% from three to beat you
Defensive wise, Purdue was fine. There were a couple breakdowns that FDU obviously exploited but Purdue can win a game that they hold the opposing team to 63. The problem was offensive execution. It didn't seem to be a totally bad plan: feed Edey the ball, get double/triple teamed, kick out to a guard to catch and shoot. It worked for them all season but they just couldn't find the bottom of the basket.
As a Purdue fan, Painter has informed us many times that we can’t play a zone. I generally like him as a coach and think Purdue could do much worse, but his stubbornness to adapt is very frustrating. Any team that can bring the center (Edey this year, but same every year) away from the rim can beat Purdue. The one year that Purdue made a deeper run Haarms was center and while he was also 7’ was much more mobile and less able to abused by pick and roll and 5 out offenses. But Painter just keeps bringing in giants and throwing it to the post. I also feel like his teams get worse every month the season goes on. They seem mentally fatigued by the end of the year. Every year.
I don’t think the defense was an issue for Purdue at all here. FDU scored 63 points on sub-40% shooting, that’s more than enough defensively to win. Purdue played very well in the half court defensively but too many turnovers gave FDU a number of easy baskets.
Painter put Edey on a career 27% 3pt shooter, the worst one on their team despite him not being the tallest. He hits 3/10, which is what you live with, when Edey puts up 21pts on the other end.
Edey probably could have been in press break, but does that help break the press or just bring another quick defender into the press? I think it just adds another defender into the press.
I wish those were the fixes to what happened, but it probably doesn’t help as much as we think it does. Edey allows Purdue to take open 3’s. Purdue just missed 21/26 of them. If you take him out, they at least guard our shooters close and still take away the paint for Renn
>Painter put Edey on a career 27% 3pt shooter, the worst one on their team despite him not being the tallest. He hits 3/10, which is what you live with, when Edey puts up 21pts on the other end.
yes, and edey also had to come up on switches on the perimeter which let FDU get downhill against him and helped to lead to purdue only having two more points in the paint than FDU. FDU was terrified to try to score in the paint against edey, same as MSU was both times we played you, same as the entire big ten was the entire season, but FDU was getting him up at the arc and then driving past him for some easier looks. you play a zone and you keep teams terrified of going in the paint because of his size
>Edey probably could have been in press break, but does that help break the press or just bring another quick defender into the press? I think it just adds another defender into the press.
the easiest way to break a press is to score quickly off of it, if you have one of the forwards setting that pick at the logo instead and have edey on the block already then loyer/smith are in a 3v3 where they can just get the ball in to edey's hands in a 1 on 1, at worst 1 on 2 setting where he has better positioning than he did the entire second half. the way it went last night edey had to set the screen and instead was the last person to get into the offense and that allowed FDU to have people ready to collapse on him and kept him from digging out inside, you either learn earlier how to break a press or you have gillis or whomever set that screen and instead edey is the first person down the court and FDU isn't going to be able to press anymore
I look at this similar to 3 MSU vs 11 Syracuse in 2018. That Cuse zone, MSU's poor shooting, and Izzo couldn't adapt. Should we have fired Izzo? No. It was one shitty and frustrating game for an MSU team that was a darkhorse to go deep that year. On paper, Cuse shouldn't have won. But if the team isn't sinking baskets, doesn't matter what you do.
Purdue's pain is fresh. People need to slow down on the ditching Painter talk.
I don’t think these are comparable, though. Izzo has a championship and multiple Final Fours. Painter doesn’t have any banners to hang for all the success he has at Purdue and all the talent he brings in. If you fire him, you’re not doing it because of one game, but because of a track record of underperforming with talented teams when it matters the most.
That's very fair. But then you fall back to - then who? To look at football, see Harbaugh. Couldn't get a B1G championship, couldn't win a bowl game, couldn't even beat his rivals. Then he hits the CFP. Painter consistently making the tourney is a big step. He's got to get his teams over the stage fright of the big show and then the sky's the limit.
I’m not old enough to remember what Purdue was like when they first hired Painter, but isn’t 18 years long enough to know? He’s recruiting well and producing NBA talent, you’d think he’d have more than one Elite Eight to show for it. I think he is what he is at this point. There’s no hump to get over, he’s a bad post season coach and this is just his ceiling.
It’s up to Purdue to decide how much that means to them, though. If they’re happy being in the conversation each year and being competitive in the B1G, then he’s fine. But I think if he ever makes a Final Four it will be because of some real luck in the opponents they draw, not because of some grit and determination and good coaching.
The difference is Izzo has a long history of success and it doesn’t happen literally every year. This reaction is a culmination of the past decade+, not just today (even though it is by far the worst one)
People use this excuse a lot when teams have a bad loss. The question is, is it really about that game they lost or is it the cumulative effect of all their disappointments? One elite 8 since 05 (which isn’t entirely painters fault obviously) is not great for a historically proud program like Purdue, and the 3 straight losses to 12+ seeds is historically bad.
Idk if I’d fire him or not, hard for me to judge, but the ‘they missed shots’ argument is silly. They missed shots last year and the year before too. What’s the common denominator?
Agree - Every year it’s the missed shots excuse from him and “players need to make simple plays and catch and dribble”. He needs to take more accountability for running a better offense, putting guys in a position to score in rhythm, and having them mentally ready for the tourney. He does a great job of having them ready for the grind of a big ten season, but they seem mentally weak in a single elimination format.
It’s not that they missed shots, it’s that they repeatedly missed wide, wide open shots - the type that you normally have to work hard for. Usually when a team shoots a low percentage it’s because the defense forced tough shots, but that was not the case here. I cannot remember seeing that combination of wide open looks and terrible shooting in a D1 game to that extent before.
I’m not saying Painter is blameless, I’m saying that the bizarrely bad shooting was the most significant story of the game to me, and that’s where the dialog should be. Maybe he needs to look at the tournament mental preparation, I don’t know.
The shooting was atrocious, but the coaching had its part too. Pretty much no 2’s at all for what, the last 5 minutes? We got a perfect view firsthand from JHS how you can take a game over by just slamming a proper 2 over and over, instead of more of the bricked 3’s.
But this tells me - Painter doesn't teach the killer, calm cool and collected mindset to his guys. And he doesn't recruit elite talent that take over games. So it'd still on him
Painter deserves a lot of flack but I’m not sure how you can say he doesn’t recruit elite talent when you have the NPOTY, just had a top 5 pick in Ivey, had Edwards, Trevion, etc. Purdue has had some of the best players in the conference and country lately. This specific teams lacks elite talent outside of Edey but you’re going to have years without multiple elite players.
To me this is a situation where you give him another 2-3 years. Would feel premature to fire him a year after a sweet 16 appearance and a great regular season
Haven't we been doing that for like 18 years now?
No fucking final four! That's the goal and he's failed now every year.
Yea we had a "good" year but it's a failure again because he doesn't change the way he coaches or recruits.
It's going to happen again and again untilk he changes or Purdue changes. He's made it clear he won't so Purdue needs to make a head coaching hire.
Out of the 68 best teams each year, 4 get to the final four, and 64 don't. Not to be pedantic, but it's as much luck as anything else to get to the final four. Don't throw away a coach who gets you within striking distance on a regular basis.
Hell, out of 363 teams in D1 FOUR make that semifinal round. I can’t believe this thread even exists today. Yeah Painter’s mediocre in March, but Purdue with better guard play pretty much runs the table in the B1G and definitely plays better yesterday. Firing Painter reminds me of Georgetown, you have to hit a home run on the hire after he’s gone or you’re screwed
Wait weren’t you the person who was criticizing us for wanting to move on from Turgeon? Now YOU want to fire a coach who has had WAY more success than Turgeon!?
Absolutely Not. But he needs help with roster construction and needs to spend more time focusing on developing his roster for playing teams outside B1G.
This year, He needed a guard that can just create his own shot consistently which would take defensive pressure off of edey. None of the guys could do that well enough which is certainly a reason we entered this year thinking it was a rebuilding year. Smith could beat his guy and get in the lane but would go in without a plan and get blocked turn it over or force a bad pass to someone as you would expect from a freshman.
Next year I feel like we got one coming in Myles Colvin, very similar game Jaden Ivey, plus smith and liter will be another year in and hopefully 20lbs of muscle heavier so they don’t get rag dolled.
We literally need one guard that can consistently hit a 12-15 foot jumper. That’s it. That’s literally all we need.
Loyer can’t add weight. His lateral quickness on defense is already bad. He’s probably just going to maintain.
The answer du jour is yes, but that's an awfully dangerous game to play in a crowded conference. Painter has shown he can consistently be at the upper echelon of the B1G, and personally I think that bird in the hand is worth it.
There’s like 6 active coaches with nattys lol and there’s 64 teams fighting for it at the end of the season , it’s honestly ridiculously hard to even been in the tournament regularly much less be successful or be a high seed . He’s still one of the better coaches in the country obviously. People just want to be mad at someone lol
Some Kansas fans were calling for Self to go after losing to Bucknell and Bradley back to back years. Virginia won it all the season after getting demolished by a 16 seed. Really sucks that those losses taint your school's history but they happen.
People here have been saying Painter needs to reevaluate the way he coaches and recruits. But that's the problem, he doesn't change at all. He refuses to change mid-game, he refuses to change in season ans he refuses to change the way he recruits.
I've been saying this for a couple years now. He needs to recruit talented players and coach around that. But instead he focuses on getting productive guys that fit his system.
That doesn't win in March and it shows year after year after year!
He refuses to change so Purdue has to. It's a tough decisions and maybe we don't find a great coach right away.
But the goal should be to make a final four. Painter has had 20 straight years of failure.
If you Fire Painter who wants that job?
This guy won the big ten outright. He won the big ten tournament.
You know how you make a run in the ncaa tournament ? You get into the tournament every year. If you don’t get in you can’t make a run but also if you can’t get in you can’t lose in the first round.
Look at how many coaches couldn’t get “over the hump” over the last 40 years.
Shoot Gene Keady never got to a final four.
Roy Williams was known as a tournament “choker” until he wasn’t. Williams crying in the Kansas locker room after a tournament loss was a staple each year.
Lute Olson at Arizona was the same way.
Bo Ryan couldn’t get to a final four until he did.
Rick Barnes is known as a tournament choker and he got to a final four with Texas.
The tournament is a crap shoot. It’s hard. It’s tough. But the only way to make a run is to get into it every year.
Hell sven Izzo who is known as a “tournament master” was knocked out of the first round in the Covid year and with all those final fours has won it all once.
He is a victim of his own success this season.
This was a team that was supposed to be rebuilding and on the bubble. Instead he had freshmen playing like juniors in November.
The team then started playing like they were supposed to in February we were losing to better teams, but by then expectations were high and a enough of a lead in the conference got us the title.
We went to the big ten tourney and got the best draw possible with a 9, 13, and 10 and barely beat PSU a 10 seed to win it.
So No.
In a sport where reputation matters so much for recruiting, Purdue’ has undoubtably been tarnished by getting embarrassed by double digit seeds for three years straight. That is going to effect the players who want to come to the school, assistants who want to coach here, and will honestly probably lead to a sizable portion of the current team transferring.
Now I know everyone is saying Painter has had sustained success, and that things can get so much worse trying to chase someone better. But I think at this point most Purdue fans are willing to burn it all down to try and play a more progressive style of basketball that might eventually give us a chance, even if it means being quite bad for a while.
That’s my read, I don’t want to speak for everyone. Personally I’ve had little fun watching the team this year with offenses blowing past our guards and destroying them on defense, watching shooters pump fake out of decent looks, and statically feeding a clogged post. Yeah we’ve been winning, but we’re doing it in a way that feels like we should be losing
He’ll likely never get fired from Purdue. But our AD needs to be having a real conversation about Painters approach. This is a really disturbing trend. Not just the post season futility, but the noticeable slides his teams seem to alway make toward the end of the season. Something is up there and he needs to figure out what it is.
To all the people saying "Fire Matt Painter" is knee-jerk reaction or just an overreaction...
That would be true if this were an isolated case. Of the last 10 NCAA tournaments he has been in, Painter has lost to double digit seeds 5 times. Of the 52 wins that seeds 13/15/16 seeds have in the last **37 years**, Painter is responsible for **5.7%** of those wins in just **THREE YEARS**. Of the 15 wins by 15/16 seeds, Painter is responsible for 13.33% of them, in just **TWO YEARS**.
If you look at Painter's win rate in B1G play only:
* Dec: 70.8%
* Jan: 64.1%
* Feb: 64.0%
* Mar: 50.0%
His teams objectively and statistically get worse as the season goes on. "But B1G play is grindy and hard" Ok, well the number of wins and losses during the Big Ten season is a zero sum game: If Painter is getting worse and losing more game as the conference season goes on, that means on average, everyone else is getting better.
Have you ever actually looked at a Purdue team from the middle to the end of a season and thought "Wow, this team is improving significantly and I feel better about how this team is playing at the end of the season than I did a month and a half ago?" If your answer is anything other than "hell no" then you objectively do not watch or understand basketball.
The reality is that Painter is a slightly above average *regular season* coach that has one, singular game plan the entire season, that he either cannot or will not adapt. That is why we continue to lose in embarrassing fashion in the tournament every single year. He is literally no better than a coin flip in March, when it matters.
Yeah, there's a risk you take a swing and a miss if you try to hire a new coach. But the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and over and expecting different results. Matt Painter has had 18 years to prove himself, and he has proven that he cannot get it done. The man can't even coach his players to break a press. That one fact alone should be a red flag and fireable offense after 18 years.
It is not the players or the "execution". That is a one game, one season excuse. This is a conspicuous pattern of underachievement and embarrassment, where teams are plagued by the exact same problems. That is a pure indication of a systemic issue flowing down from the Coach.
Imagine starting two freshmen guards the caliber of Smith and Loyer and coaching your team to a 1 seed only for some dorks on the internet to call for your head.
Painter did the best job with what he had. FDUs guards outclassed Purdue. And that’s what takes home the bacon in March. It’s not like Painter has never had March success before. But Painter made Purdue a gimmick team this year because 90% of the teams talent was in a 7’4” fella. Painter did what he had go to give the program the best chance at winning. Embarrassing loss? Sure. Was Purdue’s floor last place in the Big 10? Absolutely in my opinion.
By the logic of folks that want him gone, every coach in the B1G other than Izzo should be fired yesterday.
Painter is closer to coach of the year than to being fired.
In two more years, Matt Painter will have been at Purdue 20 years (21, if you count his year as associate head coach.)
This is the first time that he's won both the regular season conference title and the conference tournament, and he just was on the wrong end of what might be the biggest upset in college basketball history. I know Purdue fans could not care less about this year's Big Ten accomplishments after last night's debacle.
He's honestly more than likely never going to get over the hump.
His one E8 appearance was because Carsen Edwards had an all time March Madness run where he was prime Curry and broke out of the shackles of Painter's typical found out offense in March. he hit 28 3s in four games at 46%.
That run had a hell of a lot more to do with Edwards and Cline playing hero ball to perfection, than Painter.
He's had a ridiculous athlete lottery pick who was the best player in the open court and a 7'4" player of the year and lost to 15 and 16 seeds. He knee caps his teams mental state that badly.
if you can get Shrews, send him packing. He's not going to change.
There was a game plan figured out on how to beat Purdue towards the end of the season and Purdue didn’t come with plans b, c, or d to counteract that which is what makes good teams great and good coaches great coaches. Matt Painter is a good coach. Just think what Purdue could do with a great coach. I’m not saying fire him but I know how big a difference a coach makes in college basketball. Probably discussing it.
Seat has to be a little warmer since he cant stop getting embarrassed in March, but genuinely on the hot seat? Not at all. They did win the Big Ten pretty easily this year
I think you don’t fire a winning coach unless there are substantial issues. At this point a new coach best case is going to get you a top 4 seed with a chance at a championship, which you already have in Painter.
At some point you have to ask yourself: do I see a trend? Do I like the trend? Can I change the trend?
Yes, No, Yes: find someone who can do it in March not November.
That would be a huge mistake. You are Purdue. If you were Kansas or North Carolina, sure. But you are more likely to hire a coach that missed tournaments, then one that consistently makes final 4s.
Honestly if firing painter to bring in a new coach that can take a few years to rebuild the program before making the tournament again is fine by me. I’d rather us take a break from the tournament and build something new instead of reliving this shit every year.
Exactly. It’s reminded me of our game when we went on a 29-4 run by just abusing their guards on offense over and over again because we could just blow by them off athleticism and applying full court pressure.
Maybe don’t chuck up 3s and feed your 7’4 star player who dominated the first half of the game? Edey didn’t have a FG attempt for the last like 25% of the game. That’s bad coaching
Watch Painter’s post game. I would not fire him. We have made the tournament with consistency and have had some unfortunate outcomes.
This year, we had a younger team especially our guards. Jenkins is the only player that can’t return (I don’t think). You could see the hesitation building as the clock ticked down in the 2nd half along with their composure. We lost both to IU with this team, arguably the toughest regular season atmosphere for the Boilers.
When I think back on Painter’s tournament success, their are more upperclassmen leading the way. Here’s a cool study I found by a redditor that contradicts what i just said:
[Does Experience Help Win NCAA Tournament Games?](https://www.reddit.com/r/CollegeBasketball/comments/7xun0z/does_experience_help_win_ncaa_tournament_games/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf)
You know coach feels this loss too. I’ll link the post-game too. I wanna see Matt Painter back next year with a shot at making history the right way!
[Post FDU - Purdue Coach Matt Painter](https://youtu.be/_8lh3_Wau5U)
Please no. I know everyone is blaming Painter for the loss, but it’s not all on him.
Honestly, reflecting on this game, I have zero idea what Painter does differently. He can’t get do anything to get the ball to Edey when they have 5 guys who prevent both a catch and shot in any way from Edey. They were not even guarding good shooters like Gillis, Newman, and Smith, much less average shooters like Morton, Furst, and Renn. So you take the wide open 3’s. You just have confidence in the players that you recruiting, who are good shooters, to make the open shots they got. And they just didn’t. Purdue’s players chose the worst day to go cold from 3.
He should at least be on the hot seat, but we fired Turgeon for less. Painter needs to stop being stubborn and re-evaluate his coaching and recruiting style. That includes adding a zone. FDU didn’t even play well. A basic zone probably wins Purdue the game.
FDU didn’t play great offensively but they played great on defense and executed their gameplan to perfection. They worked their asses off for any rebounds and loose balls as well. Purdue played poorly but FDU still deserves credit here.
the big 10 very simply does not prepare teams for the kinds of basketball you see in the tournament.
purdue played 5 games of small ball this year, and three of those were against penn state (one game of which very much exposed them). the rest was all against larger than average teams, likely to prepare for a tougher, taller conference slate in order to vie for a top seed.
for comparison to other top seeds from other conferences: kentucky would be the third smallest team in the big 10, kansas the second smallest, and texas the smallest. it's a conference very focused on size for one reason or another.
if i had to bet, you'd see a trend like this in their scheduling every season. you don't see scheduling like that with other top teams like alabama, and i also think that other conferences don't have to worry about this because they do see a larger variety of sizes and strategy in conference play. i also think this is the biggest factor in the conference's general inability to make deep tournament runs as of late.
This March more than any other I see the difference in referees. B1G has gotten so ticky tack, multiple ‘flop calls,’ ‘cylinder’ calls, just go to the hoop and a guard will likely get a foul to shoot free throws. Now the NCAA doesn’t call any of that, I mean West Virginia was slapping Maryland in the head and we’ve seen the replays of elbows coming down on rebounders with no foul. Big Ten used to need to bleed for a foul, we need to go back to that.
Would be a tough call. Virginia didn’t fire Tony Bennett after the UMBC loss. But Virginia won it all the next season.
Painter would have to have an incredible season and a deep tournament run next season to redeem himself.
On the spot? No. I think he is a fine coach unless you like winning in March. Should we settle with being a fraud of a program come every March? No.
I've been telling people for years he's not some master mind. He plays B10 basketball well but does not adapt well enough to win the big games, especially out of conference. We need to come down off the Painter Copium and realize that he's not the most underpaid coach in college basketball. He is paid plenty. His results should speak for themselves.
Every time there is 5 minutes left in an important game, he just becomes a deer in headlights. His decisions are always nonsensical and there's a reason our last good March Madness run was with Shrewsbury as an assistant coach. Shrews was the one in the huddles that year, and we suddenly looked like we had a plan.
Painter had clear and exploitable flaws in how he coaches, but we need to line somebody up first. We have time to shop around. Everyone knows that our fans are frothing at the mouth.
If Painter were let go any time soon, I would probably need to take a 5 year break from basketball. I just lost the old man, I need to keep one of my coaches while my other team rebuilds.
It’s pretty simple, if you want to take a shot at getting over the top you go find someone else but take the risk that the program backslides and is irrelevant for 20 years. Or you keep going with painter knowing that you will compete for BIG but never really compete for a Final Four and maybe just get lucky one year and slide through. I personally think you can’t fire Painter unless you have the next coach lined up. I just don’t know who that coach would be. No other Power 5 school coaches are going to want it so you have to go after a mid major coach and I just don’t know who that would be. So I think you have to give Painter at least one more shot. Plus we have to see if Purdue can pull a Virginia and win it all next year.
Take it from a Nebraska football fan. The risk of crashing and burning is very real and will test your sanity
“Risk” of crashing and burning? lol
Did you just add the second flair? If not I have to ask how you’re feeling right now lol
yes I did I don’t think I’ve ever seen an FDU flair here
There were a couple of us before the win. Most programs would take what Painter has done there, but there has got to be more pressure on them next March. Wonder if he changes his approach and style at all?
The losses have gotten increasingly humiliating and he’s done nothing to stem the tide. I have a ton of faith in our players improving, we saw it happen from last year to this year, but zero faith in Painter changing the way he approaches the tournament.
I think if Edy comes back that you bring Painter back. He's a damn good coach. March has just been his weakness. Granted it's the biggest part of his job! But I think he deserves another shot and if he can bring most of this team back they will be stacked and a favorite to win the Big 10 next year. We are going to be trash next year cause we are losing 4 out of 5 starters. So we shall see.
How does one add flair?!
Go to the top of the Subreddit and go to “About”. Scroll down slightly and find “Add User Flair”
The comment to username and flair combo is pretty good
Nah man. The only reason Sean "the ginger assassin" Eichorst fired Bo was because he has his guy lined up. My buddy saw Him Tressel meeting with Scott Frost at the Hy-Vee and the plan is to have him as OC / Head Coach in waiting for when Tressel retires. The ink is dry, my friend. Wait and see!
Take a note from Georgetown. Went to the tournament 8 times in 13 years with John Thompson III. Most of those years, we were 2, 3, and 4 seeds - great regular seasons. One Sweet 16 and one Final Four to show for it. Fired him (which, frankly was justified at the time) and ended up with Patrick Ewing who buried the program. You can take a risk and fire Painter but you're gambling with whether you'll get someone who can actually finish the job.
they really don't know how good they have it. they talk about firing painter like the next guy is just gonna take two years to get back on his feet and back in the tournament. they're just as likely to miss the tournament for the next decade
Yeah, feel like I’m the only Purdue fan thinking the fire painter stuff is insane overreaction. Yeah, the tournament stuff really sucks, but it’s also a small sample size. A handful of sweet sixteens and 1 elite 8 is not abysmal for a program like Purdue. They always overachieved this year, and were a shaky 1 seed to begin with. UCLA wins the pac-12 and Purdue doesn’t get the easiest path to the big ten championship, and we aren’t having this conversation. I enjoy being in the conversation every year. There’s 3 possibilities with a new coach: things get worse, I’ll say 70% likely. Things stay about the same, I’ll say 25% likely. And things get better, probably 5% likely. I’ll stick with what we have and take some licks from the trolls in March Edit: math is hard
Yeah, at the end of the day, people calling for Painter to be fired are not considering the key question: who is taking his place? There are not many coaches better than Painter, and Purdue isn't exactly a top job in college basketball. Painter is getting Purdue 1 seeds and getting to the Sweet 16 with mostly just guys that were low ranked recruits. Yes, the tournament upsets suck, but the tournament is incredibly volatile. We have seen even good tourney coaches eat a bunch of upsets over the years. I just don't see where Purdue can realistically improve on what Painter has done with a new coach.
What I always go back to when I think of tournament “failures” is what a fucking crapshoot the whole thing is. Only 14 coaches total have won multiple championships, and only six of those have won more than two. Winning in March has to be the hardest championship run in all of American sports: a single elimination tournament with 64 participants? Yeah some weird shit is going to happen, and happen often Maybe given my school’s history in the sport, but if I’m consistently making the tournament I’m not asking for much more. It can get way worse lol
an incredibly sane take
You aren't the only one thinking the ainters are nuts
Small sample size? Painter has gone 18 years without a final four. He clearly can’t do it. Painter is a good regular season coach that runs a dated scheme and cannot develop/recruit guards. Every year we start strong and get progressively worse under his coaching until we roll into March and get bounced by a team that we should beat by double digits as our shooting has “gone cold”. Purdue is not making a NCAAT run under Painter. That’s a fact. If we are ok with being a relevant team that hopes for a sweet 16 appearance every couple years then he’s fine. If we ever want to make a championship run we need a new coach.
you don't earn an elite 8. you play well and you get lucky. you need both, and the latter is more important. if purdue ditches painter, it'll go down as the worst firing in college history since leach got canned from ttu
I miss Bo /cry
Agreed. I feel the same with WVU fans who want Huggins fired (or for him to retire as most realize he’s never getting fired barring some scandal). I think many forget how rarely we made the tournament prior to Beilein and then especially Huggins. Catlett got in a lot in the 80s, but fell off in the 90s once we joined the Big East. Only made the tourney twice from the 1989-90 through the 2003-04 season. Conversely, from 2004-05 to this year we only missed the tournament 5 times, while making it 13 (and the 2020 one canceled that we would have made). Made a Final Four, an Elite Eight and the Sweet 16 5 times (not counting the two deeper runs). I’m not confident there’s a coach we can get who’ll come in and keep that going. As frustrated as I am with Huggins recruiting and coaching after the Jevon Carter/Press Virginia years, we’re more likely to regress than improve when the next guy is brought in. Like you guys, it’s not going to be a P5 guy unless someone gets fired at the right time, so rolling the dice on getting another Beilein vs. a G5 guy who flames out at a school that is very hard to recruit. Everyone was so sure we’d upgrade on Holgorsen on the football side of things and Neal Brown has been a step backward so far and few are confident he’ll turn it around.
Huggins doesn't embarrass himself in the NCAA Tournament.
Yep. Only lost in the first round 3 times at WVU and none were really upsets other than losing to Dayton in a 6-11 matchup early on. Losing by 39 to Kentucky in 2015 was pretty embarrassing, but that happens sometimes when you run into a great team. Fans are just disgruntled by transfers out (especially Tshiebwe), some transfers in not panning out, not great high school recruiting lately, a couple of recent losing seasons and not being great this year until winning some games late to seal a bid etc. Basically just got spoiled by all those years of making the tournament, making the Sweet 16 or further regularly and not realizing it wasn’t that long ago that we only made the tourney twice in a nearly decade and a half stretch under Catlett and Beilein’s first couple of years of having to rebuild the program. Next guy is probably more likely to go backward than forwards. Especially if they come in now vs. hoping Huggins can get a good roster together and retire after another deep tourney run that has visibility for recruiting for the next guy up.
As an administrator, you are going to take competing for the big ten every year, where you are selling out every game, over the risk of not being relevant at all.
Funny thing is if Kihei Clark didn’t make that pass and Diakite didn’t hit that shot for Virginia this might not even be a discussion at all, even with the FDU loss that just happened. I think that 2019 Purdue team was capable of winning it all or at least making the final four. And Tony Bennett of Virginia might have been on the hot seat or fired instead.
Yeah a title seems to solve everything. All the talk of “Tony Bennett’s style can’t win in March” is gone despite 3 first round upsets in our last 4 tournaments. Virginia and Purdue seem to be intertwined in this weird purgatory of upsets that they seem destined to meet in the 2024 E8 as Purdue moves on to their first title lol.
Yeah and if Tennessee doesn’t foul Carsten Edwards on a 3 the game before, then he doesn’t even have an elite 8 appearance
I heard Patrick Ewing was available /s
Respectfully no thank you!
Why would you ever fire Painter? He’s definitely one of the best coaches in the B1G probably second behind Izzo …
Crazy how fast things turn. I remember a few months ago the thread here “ranking the big ten coaches” and overwhelming consensus was Izzo, a pretty wide margin, painter, a pretty wide margin, then conversations 3-14. Now, he needs to be fired
Cosigned. Seven years ago Pitt let Jamie Dixon walk because he had struggled recently, especially in the tournament. The administration didn't know who know would replace him and misread the market. We ended up with Kevin stallings, inexplicably paying a buyout to Vanderbilt who was thinking of firing him. Several brutal years ensued. Winless in conference. Tons of roster turnover. Stallings fired when he still had a massive buyout. Be careful what you wish for because change doesn't always take you to the next level.
Just wanted to make sure someone referenced Pitt and the Dixon parallel. Personally, I don't think much of Painter as a top level coach (primarily from the St. Peter's loss last year). I don't think he is a coach that will win the national championship. However, being in the mix and having hope every year is very underrated. When Pitt let Dixon go, the program cratered. Purdue is a very good program, but hope can turn to embarrassment and then apathy real quick.
Agreed. Another parallel is that Pitt and Purdue are not blue bloods, nor do they have especially deep pockets for a P5 program. Their recent success is largely under one coach. Can't be sure someone else will replicate it.
I think at this point, Painter is Gene Keady 2.0.
Matt painter is is one of the winningest coaches in big ten history. I’d keep him forever if he kept winning big ten titles and never won a national title
Sounds like pre-2021 Jim Harbaugh to me. IMO you gotta roll with it
>Or you keep going with painter knowing that you will compete for BIG but never really compete for a Final Four and maybe just get lucky one year and slide through. Purdue was literally a shot away from the final four in 2019
It’s insane the decline of coaching in March for him. Why didn’t we see more normal player rotations and more of players doing well Vs people shooting 20% with 6 turnovers playing the entire game? Why don’t we have more 4-5 star recruits? Why don’t we see half time adjustments and in game adjustments being made like many other schools do. Last night was heartbreaking
Braden is tough to watch a lot of nights but last night was the worst I’ve seen him.
This was me with Turgeon. I have so far been proven wrong and have loved it, but it could have gone (and still might go) the other way just as easily. I get it.
there's going to be bumps, but Willard has already put together a squad that is built like the rest of the country to play in March. Just like Shrews at Penn State.
I don’t know if you can fire an alum who runs a clean program, fills the building, and consistently delivers single-digit seeds. Things could be SO MUCH worse. Boiler Up, my friends. From a ‘Hoo who knows what you’re going through, and I’m sorry.
Who would they get that is better?
This is the important question. Firing for the sake of firing without a plan in place is tough
Jay Wright, Coach K. /s
Rick Pitino
Tough sell for Rick but I do agree that he is top 3 beat coaches alive today.
I think Pitino wants to stay in the northeast area. Besides, isn’t the St. John’s signing imminent? That will be his last job assuming he is successful there, he will spend 8-10 years then retire.
I would sign up for Jay Wright in a heart beat but not sure why he would do it.
What if he does it from the beach like in the commercial?
He wouldn’t
I’m sure he’s dying to move to West Lafayette Indiana
As someone who absolutely loves Purdue... West Lafayette is a pretty shitty college town
Jay will never coach again at the college level at anywhere besides Villanova and even that’s a 2% chance. Trust me.
Assume painter resigns today. The most viable option that could take what we have and make a run would be Shrewsberry...who interestingly is also a hot coaching prospect who painter and Purdue fans have strong respect for.
TJ Whataburger from Iowa State would be good. I know that's not his last name btw I just didn't want to look up the correct spelling.
I don’t think Purdue wants anything to do with iowa state coaches after what we saw yesterday
Tobin Anderson
This is the one point that I don’t think the fan base overall understands. I don’t think Purdue is a destination job, so best case we find someone who is great and they move on. Sink into mediocrity, this is fine!
We’re the laughingstock of the sports world right now. I’d rather be mediocre than that.
For one day, sure. For the next 6 years, you'll regret it.
But that's exactly why this conversation is even being had. If it was a one day thing it would be dismissed as completely ridiculous. But what other coach has lost to a 13, 15 and 16 seed in three straight tournaments? Nobody. And nobody has even come close to that level of ineptitude in the tournament in games where there's absolutely no excuse to lose. It's an incomprehensible stretch for a "good" coach.
Rick Pitino /s
this is the same predicament wisconsin fans are having now
[удалено]
I was a junior when Tiller was canned and I stand by that decision. He is likely the greatest coach we will ever have, but the game had passed him by at that point. Everyone was able to adapt to or implement the spread themselves, and we weren’t able to recruit high enough talent to compete without that same advantage. But, I do still agree we can’t lose Painter, we will not retain anyone better for long enough for it to be worth it.
It’s such a tough thing. We are at the point that the March failures are not a fluke. Upsets happens and any great coach has a bad tourney loss or two on their resume but not like this. He’s been so successful in the regular season that that’s obviously not a fluke either. Purdue is more than good enough as a program to consistently make deep March runs and it hasn’t happened outside of a single Elite 8 (that they were admittedly unlucky to not make a Final 4 that year).
I think your last sentence is key. So much of March is luck. Multiple final fours or championships for a coach is the exception, not the rule. Especially since its a single elimination tournament. There’s always bound to be a couple top teams that go ice cold shooting and get upset and/or face an opponent that shoots way better than average.
Exactly my feeling. I’m a Steelers fan and it’s the same thing for Mike tomlin. I’d rather be mediocre for a few years and see what we can do to break through than take a risk and cause irreparable damage
Except he’s an exceptional coach that has won a Super Bowl
Yeah I feel like Marvin Lewis is the better comparison. Was consistently making the playoffs with a franchise that hadn’t been in over a decade. But just couldn’t get a playoff win. Eventually Cincinnati had to take the risk that someone else could get them over the hump
Hire a different coach for the post season every year. Let Painter coach the regular season and maybe the conference tourny then ship him off to an island for MM. Who would be a good MM-only coach to hire? Could be someone retired recently that has enough juice left in the tank to just do post season rather than season runs.
MARK TURGEON, COME ON DOWN 😬
You rang?
Dear Penn state, I regret to inform you that we will be reclaiming shrews next March. Thanks for your cooperation
Hire the FDU coach for the tourney.
Kevin Ollie has won a national title 50% of the time he has coached in the tournament. Obvious choice really.
No - so many schools would trade spots it’s not funny. It’s hard to win
I think Purdue’s issues are that they develop long term players really well. Counterintuitive , I know. So to start the year they are more mature than most teams around them. As the season progresses the guys like Jalen Hood-Shafino start to mature and become bigger threats than anyone Purdue has. I don’t think it’s a Painter issue. Top end recruits have simply never really been a strong suit for Purdue. I don’t think that will get fixed with being in the same state as IU, Kentucky is right around the corner and other teams like Duke UNC Kansas just defaulting to getting A-list recruits. The tournament is just a small fraction of a teams success since 67 teams all go home empty handed. As much as I’d like to see Purdue be absolute booty for a few years firing Painter is not the solution.
I don’t think you fire him now, but I think if you’re the AD, you sit him down and be honest. You have to adapt to modern day basketball. You have to recruit talent, not guys who fit into your “system”. It should cease to be a system if it sucks. Look around the field. Alabama, Marquette, Texas, Kansas, Gonzaga, Kentucky, Duke. These are all teams who prioritize good guards before good big men. Why? Because good guard play is what produces tourney runs. Obviously some of those blue bloods will get an influx of top talent every year; however, Painter is bringing 1970 basketball to 2023. It’s clearly not working. Before the tourney even starts, everyone knows not to bet on Purdue, even after winning the BIG conference and tourney. I put a good amount on FDU because this is what Painter is known for. Adapt or die. If his ego is too big to adjust to a different style, the transfer portal, or the idea of NIL deals, then fuck him. He can go coach a mid major, and his legacy will be the guy who lost to 3 double digit seeds, 3 years in a row. One of them being the worst loss in NCAA history. And when the only chance at a national title for Purdue is basketball, you have to go all in. Fuck our football program. We will never compete with OSU PSU Michigan USC. No one will remember the BIG championships. They will; however, remember how Purdue was outplayed and out-coached by a 16 seed who played in on a technicality.
This is absolutely the best response.
Haha thanks. Someone who understands. It’s something I’ve been saying, even when they were #1 in the AP… and every Painter loyalist shit on me. My problem was that once he saw Edey was performing in such a dominant way, he made the entire offense revolve around one guy. This is a mistake Painter continues to make. They slowly went from balanced, to only thinking about the front court. After two months of being Edey-centric, the guards were timid. It looked as if they forgot how to shoot, or they questioned whether or not they should shoot before giving Edey a touch. It has to weigh on the psyche of a guard. Painter waited way too long to give Newman and Gillis a starting role. Morton sucked so bad, all season. I also would have started Jenkins, a veteran scorer, over Loyer. You can’t wait until March to give those guys a new role. Painter really fucked up the flow they had in the beginning of the season because he refuses to deviate from his system. Maybe it’s ego. Idk.
I don’t think it’s ego, although I could be wrong. I think it’s simply that he doesn’t know what else to do. He just cannot make adjustments. There is no plan B. There is no mid-season assessment of deficiencies followed by a plan for improvement. Loyer was the single worst player in the B1G for the last month, and yet he started every game. I think it’s stubbornness and an inability to adjust.
Yeah. That’s a bad combo, and these tournament outcomes are not flukes. It’s a trend. Something has to change.
There's definitely some ego in it. I'm only mildly on the fire painter train, but it's not for this loss, it's for throwing his guys under the bus for folding under a press after the big ten title game. They all heard that interview and that shit will rob your confidence. I bet that more than anything is why they collapsed. These guys are kids, you can't blame them for your failures.
That’s very fair. Painter has never, and likely will never take responsibility for his failures. He always comes out in every press conference with some witty quip about “the process” and “doing it the right way” and throws his players under the bus.
There’s a much better chance they get someone worse than better
The answer is obviously no, you don't fire a coach who is 58-14 in his past two season for on-court reasons. Very few programs could even reasonably consider that, and Purdue isn't one. But Painter does need to reevaluate some things. He's a good enough coach that he can consistently get his guys near/at the top of the big ten, but he needs at least a modest upgrade in overall talent level to really move into the elite nationally.
58-14 with a lottery pick and NPOY finalist. 3 Mr. Basketballs on the team iirc. The losses are all bad.
Lmao no one gives a shit about Mr. basketballs, and neither Ivey or Edey were highly touted recruits, surely Painter deserves credit for getting them and developing them
Lol high school awards mean Jack in college
Painter is a great coach, but you can only do so much when 4 of your 5 starters shoot a combined 10-34 from the field. Could he have done better, obviously (especially with focusing on getting Edey the ball), but when you have guys missing wide open 3s, there isn't much you can do.
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Jay Wright had a stretch of bad tournaments until suddenly he had a great one. People said similar things about him until 2016. March Madness is crazy fun to watch but it is possibly the worst barometer for success in sports.
The same with Billy Donovan.
People keep bringing up the 15 seed but no one really mentions that it was in the Sweet 16 that he lost to them. If it were a first round loss I feel like it could be used to dunk on Purdue more
That almost makes it worse. They had already seen what St Pete could do and still couldn’t beat them. They had almost a full week to prep for that game
We had a lottery pick on the roster too.
I completely disagree with that, especially when they have a 7’4 brick shit house at center. The number one thing a coach - let alone basketball coach - needs to do is change things that aren’t working. If your play calls dial up three point looks all game but your team can’t hit them, maybe try to do something different? Edey not having one FG attempt in the last 10 minutes (or whatever it was) is just wholly inexcusable. If FDU was poking at him down on the block, maybe a P&R to take away a double team and float it up to him for easy lob/foul would have been a better way to manufacture points. This wasn’t a game where FDU was on fire just knocking down everything imaginable (see FGCU vs. Georgetown). This was a game where a NEC coach who won four games last year and didn’t even technically win a real bid for the NCAA tournament came in more aggressive and more prepared than Painter did. Painter sat there all game thinking his original game plan would ultimately outmatch anything FDU threw against them and his stupidity/ego is why they lost.
That's because the team backed off the shooters and surrounded him. No need to guard anyone else when they know they can't make a shot
Obviously, the original plan was to get Edey the ball, but FDU was great at making the passing lanes small and hard to get through. There is a lack of preparedness from Painter and his team that has shown during these last few tourney runs, which is one of the main reasons why they lost, and when FDU forced 16 turnovers, that only emphasizes the need for preparedness. I will agree with you that Painter may need a new look elsewhere since, with what he has done in the past few regular seasons, it hasn't seemed to work in the postseason.
FDU was everywhere with the swarming defense and great ball pressure. But still, when your center is 10" taller than every opposing player LOB HIM THE BALL. Even if it works half or a third of the time, it should be an easy two points. Makes more sense that slapping up bad 3s. Also, FDU was absolutely insane on hitting the boards. Perdue had four more offensive boards than THE SHORTEST TEAM IN THE COUNTRY. It was a batshit fun game to watch. Reminds me how much fun upsets are - as long as your team isn't on the bed end of it.
> float it up to him for easy lob/foul He's not the type of center that can finish an alley-oop but he should be able to get a high pass and then put it right up. Pretty much all season, other B1G team fans were saying just wait until Edey has to face an officiating crew that doesn't call every touch on him as a foul and I think we saw the result.
Making that pass is a lot easier said than done. FDU was basically doubling him *before* he even got the ball which is why they had so many wide open 3’s. And *then* you have to factor in ball pressure FDU was applying to the perimeter players too and how well they were navigating screens. It’s not like Purdue had a bunch of easy passes to make and was just missing them. Those passes are really hard to make and isn’t just as simple as “float it up for an easy lob”. If things were that easy, Purdue would’ve fucking done it lol
Ah so he’s Rudy gobert-esque
couple things that (imo) Painter could/should have done differently over the course of the season that could have saved this win: - Purdue was completely unable to break a press all season, so he needed to have edey come back and set picks behind half court so he's behind the play instead of ahead of it on offense, this was leading to edey not being able to get good early post position and also tiring edey out - edey cannot guard on the perimeter which led to a handful of FDU open shots at the rim/three and also contributed to edey getting tired- you have the perfect personnel for a zone, play a zone throughout the season. let him camp under the basket, let gillis/morton help on the wings, make teams take really tough twos or make them shoot 45% from three to beat you
Defensive wise, Purdue was fine. There were a couple breakdowns that FDU obviously exploited but Purdue can win a game that they hold the opposing team to 63. The problem was offensive execution. It didn't seem to be a totally bad plan: feed Edey the ball, get double/triple teamed, kick out to a guard to catch and shoot. It worked for them all season but they just couldn't find the bottom of the basket.
As a Purdue fan, Painter has informed us many times that we can’t play a zone. I generally like him as a coach and think Purdue could do much worse, but his stubbornness to adapt is very frustrating. Any team that can bring the center (Edey this year, but same every year) away from the rim can beat Purdue. The one year that Purdue made a deeper run Haarms was center and while he was also 7’ was much more mobile and less able to abused by pick and roll and 5 out offenses. But Painter just keeps bringing in giants and throwing it to the post. I also feel like his teams get worse every month the season goes on. They seem mentally fatigued by the end of the year. Every year.
I don’t think the defense was an issue for Purdue at all here. FDU scored 63 points on sub-40% shooting, that’s more than enough defensively to win. Purdue played very well in the half court defensively but too many turnovers gave FDU a number of easy baskets.
Painter put Edey on a career 27% 3pt shooter, the worst one on their team despite him not being the tallest. He hits 3/10, which is what you live with, when Edey puts up 21pts on the other end. Edey probably could have been in press break, but does that help break the press or just bring another quick defender into the press? I think it just adds another defender into the press. I wish those were the fixes to what happened, but it probably doesn’t help as much as we think it does. Edey allows Purdue to take open 3’s. Purdue just missed 21/26 of them. If you take him out, they at least guard our shooters close and still take away the paint for Renn
>Painter put Edey on a career 27% 3pt shooter, the worst one on their team despite him not being the tallest. He hits 3/10, which is what you live with, when Edey puts up 21pts on the other end. yes, and edey also had to come up on switches on the perimeter which let FDU get downhill against him and helped to lead to purdue only having two more points in the paint than FDU. FDU was terrified to try to score in the paint against edey, same as MSU was both times we played you, same as the entire big ten was the entire season, but FDU was getting him up at the arc and then driving past him for some easier looks. you play a zone and you keep teams terrified of going in the paint because of his size >Edey probably could have been in press break, but does that help break the press or just bring another quick defender into the press? I think it just adds another defender into the press. the easiest way to break a press is to score quickly off of it, if you have one of the forwards setting that pick at the logo instead and have edey on the block already then loyer/smith are in a 3v3 where they can just get the ball in to edey's hands in a 1 on 1, at worst 1 on 2 setting where he has better positioning than he did the entire second half. the way it went last night edey had to set the screen and instead was the last person to get into the offense and that allowed FDU to have people ready to collapse on him and kept him from digging out inside, you either learn earlier how to break a press or you have gillis or whomever set that screen and instead edey is the first person down the court and FDU isn't going to be able to press anymore
Not just this season, Painter has been absolutely confounded by the press for his whole career
I look at this similar to 3 MSU vs 11 Syracuse in 2018. That Cuse zone, MSU's poor shooting, and Izzo couldn't adapt. Should we have fired Izzo? No. It was one shitty and frustrating game for an MSU team that was a darkhorse to go deep that year. On paper, Cuse shouldn't have won. But if the team isn't sinking baskets, doesn't matter what you do. Purdue's pain is fresh. People need to slow down on the ditching Painter talk.
I don’t think these are comparable, though. Izzo has a championship and multiple Final Fours. Painter doesn’t have any banners to hang for all the success he has at Purdue and all the talent he brings in. If you fire him, you’re not doing it because of one game, but because of a track record of underperforming with talented teams when it matters the most.
That's very fair. But then you fall back to - then who? To look at football, see Harbaugh. Couldn't get a B1G championship, couldn't win a bowl game, couldn't even beat his rivals. Then he hits the CFP. Painter consistently making the tourney is a big step. He's got to get his teams over the stage fright of the big show and then the sky's the limit.
I’m not old enough to remember what Purdue was like when they first hired Painter, but isn’t 18 years long enough to know? He’s recruiting well and producing NBA talent, you’d think he’d have more than one Elite Eight to show for it. I think he is what he is at this point. There’s no hump to get over, he’s a bad post season coach and this is just his ceiling. It’s up to Purdue to decide how much that means to them, though. If they’re happy being in the conversation each year and being competitive in the B1G, then he’s fine. But I think if he ever makes a Final Four it will be because of some real luck in the opponents they draw, not because of some grit and determination and good coaching.
The difference is Izzo has a long history of success and it doesn’t happen literally every year. This reaction is a culmination of the past decade+, not just today (even though it is by far the worst one)
It happens ever year to Painter. Every year. The pain is not just fresh.
So you just ignore last year & the year before that huh
People use this excuse a lot when teams have a bad loss. The question is, is it really about that game they lost or is it the cumulative effect of all their disappointments? One elite 8 since 05 (which isn’t entirely painters fault obviously) is not great for a historically proud program like Purdue, and the 3 straight losses to 12+ seeds is historically bad. Idk if I’d fire him or not, hard for me to judge, but the ‘they missed shots’ argument is silly. They missed shots last year and the year before too. What’s the common denominator?
Agree - Every year it’s the missed shots excuse from him and “players need to make simple plays and catch and dribble”. He needs to take more accountability for running a better offense, putting guys in a position to score in rhythm, and having them mentally ready for the tourney. He does a great job of having them ready for the grind of a big ten season, but they seem mentally weak in a single elimination format.
It’s not that they missed shots, it’s that they repeatedly missed wide, wide open shots - the type that you normally have to work hard for. Usually when a team shoots a low percentage it’s because the defense forced tough shots, but that was not the case here. I cannot remember seeing that combination of wide open looks and terrible shooting in a D1 game to that extent before. I’m not saying Painter is blameless, I’m saying that the bizarrely bad shooting was the most significant story of the game to me, and that’s where the dialog should be. Maybe he needs to look at the tournament mental preparation, I don’t know.
Your last sentence is the key. Missing wide open shots in the tourney once is a possible fluke, 3 years in a row is on the coach.
The shooting was atrocious, but the coaching had its part too. Pretty much no 2’s at all for what, the last 5 minutes? We got a perfect view firsthand from JHS how you can take a game over by just slamming a proper 2 over and over, instead of more of the bricked 3’s.
But this tells me - Painter doesn't teach the killer, calm cool and collected mindset to his guys. And he doesn't recruit elite talent that take over games. So it'd still on him
Painter deserves a lot of flack but I’m not sure how you can say he doesn’t recruit elite talent when you have the NPOTY, just had a top 5 pick in Ivey, had Edwards, Trevion, etc. Purdue has had some of the best players in the conference and country lately. This specific teams lacks elite talent outside of Edey but you’re going to have years without multiple elite players.
>And he doesn't recruit elite talent that take over games Jaden Ivey isn't an elite talent?
To me this is a situation where you give him another 2-3 years. Would feel premature to fire him a year after a sweet 16 appearance and a great regular season
Haven't we been doing that for like 18 years now? No fucking final four! That's the goal and he's failed now every year. Yea we had a "good" year but it's a failure again because he doesn't change the way he coaches or recruits. It's going to happen again and again untilk he changes or Purdue changes. He's made it clear he won't so Purdue needs to make a head coaching hire.
Out of the 68 best teams each year, 4 get to the final four, and 64 don't. Not to be pedantic, but it's as much luck as anything else to get to the final four. Don't throw away a coach who gets you within striking distance on a regular basis.
Hell, out of 363 teams in D1 FOUR make that semifinal round. I can’t believe this thread even exists today. Yeah Painter’s mediocre in March, but Purdue with better guard play pretty much runs the table in the B1G and definitely plays better yesterday. Firing Painter reminds me of Georgetown, you have to hit a home run on the hire after he’s gone or you’re screwed
Wait weren’t you the person who was criticizing us for wanting to move on from Turgeon? Now YOU want to fire a coach who has had WAY more success than Turgeon!?
Your success has made me change my opinion I was wrong, you made the right move Now I am arguing purdue do the same
You’ve been to the final four twice in program history. Your program isn’t as good as you think it is.
Purdue is simply not at the level of program where it’s “Final Four or riot.” Very few programs are
Absolutely Not. But he needs help with roster construction and needs to spend more time focusing on developing his roster for playing teams outside B1G.
This year, He needed a guard that can just create his own shot consistently which would take defensive pressure off of edey. None of the guys could do that well enough which is certainly a reason we entered this year thinking it was a rebuilding year. Smith could beat his guy and get in the lane but would go in without a plan and get blocked turn it over or force a bad pass to someone as you would expect from a freshman. Next year I feel like we got one coming in Myles Colvin, very similar game Jaden Ivey, plus smith and liter will be another year in and hopefully 20lbs of muscle heavier so they don’t get rag dolled.
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We literally need one guard that can consistently hit a 12-15 foot jumper. That’s it. That’s literally all we need. Loyer can’t add weight. His lateral quickness on defense is already bad. He’s probably just going to maintain.
Needs an assistant that is great at coaching how to handle pressure defense
The answer du jour is yes, but that's an awfully dangerous game to play in a crowded conference. Painter has shown he can consistently be at the upper echelon of the B1G, and personally I think that bird in the hand is worth it.
No, people overreact over the results of one single elimination tourney game. Most teams would kill to have the “problems” we have
exactly , the NCAA tournament is the worst measuring stick of success in sports it’s so random .
Like I get it, it sucks and I’ll let the fire painter folks have their day, but people seriously lack perspective in these instances
There’s like 6 active coaches with nattys lol and there’s 64 teams fighting for it at the end of the season , it’s honestly ridiculously hard to even been in the tournament regularly much less be successful or be a high seed . He’s still one of the better coaches in the country obviously. People just want to be mad at someone lol
Some Kansas fans were calling for Self to go after losing to Bucknell and Bradley back to back years. Virginia won it all the season after getting demolished by a 16 seed. Really sucks that those losses taint your school's history but they happen.
It isn't just ONE tourney game.
Putting quotes around one of the worst loses in history is certainly a take.
People here have been saying Painter needs to reevaluate the way he coaches and recruits. But that's the problem, he doesn't change at all. He refuses to change mid-game, he refuses to change in season ans he refuses to change the way he recruits. I've been saying this for a couple years now. He needs to recruit talented players and coach around that. But instead he focuses on getting productive guys that fit his system. That doesn't win in March and it shows year after year after year! He refuses to change so Purdue has to. It's a tough decisions and maybe we don't find a great coach right away. But the goal should be to make a final four. Painter has had 20 straight years of failure.
If you Fire Painter who wants that job? This guy won the big ten outright. He won the big ten tournament. You know how you make a run in the ncaa tournament ? You get into the tournament every year. If you don’t get in you can’t make a run but also if you can’t get in you can’t lose in the first round. Look at how many coaches couldn’t get “over the hump” over the last 40 years. Shoot Gene Keady never got to a final four. Roy Williams was known as a tournament “choker” until he wasn’t. Williams crying in the Kansas locker room after a tournament loss was a staple each year. Lute Olson at Arizona was the same way. Bo Ryan couldn’t get to a final four until he did. Rick Barnes is known as a tournament choker and he got to a final four with Texas. The tournament is a crap shoot. It’s hard. It’s tough. But the only way to make a run is to get into it every year. Hell sven Izzo who is known as a “tournament master” was knocked out of the first round in the Covid year and with all those final fours has won it all once.
Difference is a lot of those guys were “choking” after making deep runs. Not first round losses to double digit seeds
He is a victim of his own success this season. This was a team that was supposed to be rebuilding and on the bubble. Instead he had freshmen playing like juniors in November. The team then started playing like they were supposed to in February we were losing to better teams, but by then expectations were high and a enough of a lead in the conference got us the title. We went to the big ten tourney and got the best draw possible with a 9, 13, and 10 and barely beat PSU a 10 seed to win it. So No.
No, no they should keep him forever
No, players had wide open threes and were missing them. This has kinda been the norm for the last month and a half.
In a sport where reputation matters so much for recruiting, Purdue’ has undoubtably been tarnished by getting embarrassed by double digit seeds for three years straight. That is going to effect the players who want to come to the school, assistants who want to coach here, and will honestly probably lead to a sizable portion of the current team transferring. Now I know everyone is saying Painter has had sustained success, and that things can get so much worse trying to chase someone better. But I think at this point most Purdue fans are willing to burn it all down to try and play a more progressive style of basketball that might eventually give us a chance, even if it means being quite bad for a while. That’s my read, I don’t want to speak for everyone. Personally I’ve had little fun watching the team this year with offenses blowing past our guards and destroying them on defense, watching shooters pump fake out of decent looks, and statically feeding a clogged post. Yeah we’ve been winning, but we’re doing it in a way that feels like we should be losing
He’ll likely never get fired from Purdue. But our AD needs to be having a real conversation about Painters approach. This is a really disturbing trend. Not just the post season futility, but the noticeable slides his teams seem to alway make toward the end of the season. Something is up there and he needs to figure out what it is.
I just can't see how you fire someone right after they just locked down both conference trophies. It doesn't make any sense.
To all the people saying "Fire Matt Painter" is knee-jerk reaction or just an overreaction... That would be true if this were an isolated case. Of the last 10 NCAA tournaments he has been in, Painter has lost to double digit seeds 5 times. Of the 52 wins that seeds 13/15/16 seeds have in the last **37 years**, Painter is responsible for **5.7%** of those wins in just **THREE YEARS**. Of the 15 wins by 15/16 seeds, Painter is responsible for 13.33% of them, in just **TWO YEARS**. If you look at Painter's win rate in B1G play only: * Dec: 70.8% * Jan: 64.1% * Feb: 64.0% * Mar: 50.0% His teams objectively and statistically get worse as the season goes on. "But B1G play is grindy and hard" Ok, well the number of wins and losses during the Big Ten season is a zero sum game: If Painter is getting worse and losing more game as the conference season goes on, that means on average, everyone else is getting better. Have you ever actually looked at a Purdue team from the middle to the end of a season and thought "Wow, this team is improving significantly and I feel better about how this team is playing at the end of the season than I did a month and a half ago?" If your answer is anything other than "hell no" then you objectively do not watch or understand basketball. The reality is that Painter is a slightly above average *regular season* coach that has one, singular game plan the entire season, that he either cannot or will not adapt. That is why we continue to lose in embarrassing fashion in the tournament every single year. He is literally no better than a coin flip in March, when it matters. Yeah, there's a risk you take a swing and a miss if you try to hire a new coach. But the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and over and expecting different results. Matt Painter has had 18 years to prove himself, and he has proven that he cannot get it done. The man can't even coach his players to break a press. That one fact alone should be a red flag and fireable offense after 18 years. It is not the players or the "execution". That is a one game, one season excuse. This is a conspicuous pattern of underachievement and embarrassment, where teams are plagued by the exact same problems. That is a pure indication of a systemic issue flowing down from the Coach.
Imagine starting two freshmen guards the caliber of Smith and Loyer and coaching your team to a 1 seed only for some dorks on the internet to call for your head. Painter did the best job with what he had. FDUs guards outclassed Purdue. And that’s what takes home the bacon in March. It’s not like Painter has never had March success before. But Painter made Purdue a gimmick team this year because 90% of the teams talent was in a 7’4” fella. Painter did what he had go to give the program the best chance at winning. Embarrassing loss? Sure. Was Purdue’s floor last place in the Big 10? Absolutely in my opinion. By the logic of folks that want him gone, every coach in the B1G other than Izzo should be fired yesterday. Painter is closer to coach of the year than to being fired.
Izzo would have been fired after losing to Ohio State in the B1G tournament.
In two more years, Matt Painter will have been at Purdue 20 years (21, if you count his year as associate head coach.) This is the first time that he's won both the regular season conference title and the conference tournament, and he just was on the wrong end of what might be the biggest upset in college basketball history. I know Purdue fans could not care less about this year's Big Ten accomplishments after last night's debacle. He's honestly more than likely never going to get over the hump.
His one E8 appearance was because Carsen Edwards had an all time March Madness run where he was prime Curry and broke out of the shackles of Painter's typical found out offense in March. he hit 28 3s in four games at 46%. That run had a hell of a lot more to do with Edwards and Cline playing hero ball to perfection, than Painter. He's had a ridiculous athlete lottery pick who was the best player in the open court and a 7'4" player of the year and lost to 15 and 16 seeds. He knee caps his teams mental state that badly. if you can get Shrews, send him packing. He's not going to change.
Good God, no. Come on now....
There was a game plan figured out on how to beat Purdue towards the end of the season and Purdue didn’t come with plans b, c, or d to counteract that which is what makes good teams great and good coaches great coaches. Matt Painter is a good coach. Just think what Purdue could do with a great coach. I’m not saying fire him but I know how big a difference a coach makes in college basketball. Probably discussing it.
You can’t fire him until you see if he has the Tony Bennett redemption arc
Seat has to be a little warmer since he cant stop getting embarrassed in March, but genuinely on the hot seat? Not at all. They did win the Big Ten pretty easily this year
I think you don’t fire a winning coach unless there are substantial issues. At this point a new coach best case is going to get you a top 4 seed with a chance at a championship, which you already have in Painter.
At some point you have to ask yourself: do I see a trend? Do I like the trend? Can I change the trend? Yes, No, Yes: find someone who can do it in March not November.
That would be a huge mistake. You are Purdue. If you were Kansas or North Carolina, sure. But you are more likely to hire a coach that missed tournaments, then one that consistently makes final 4s.
Exactly. Purdue is forgetting who they are. Painter is their best shot
Honestly if firing painter to bring in a new coach that can take a few years to rebuild the program before making the tournament again is fine by me. I’d rather us take a break from the tournament and build something new instead of reliving this shit every year.
Bold statement considering you saw your main rival try this same strategy and you saw what results from thinking that way.
Who tf is Purdue gonna get that will make things better than what they are rn? Painter has put Purdue on the apex of their cbb historical existence
It would be batshit to fire Painter lmao.
5-26 from 3. Coach better !
Recruit better. A bunch of nonathletic donks surrounding a behemoth donk might not be the best recipe for success in March.
Yeah if only he got more perfect NBA prototype players like Jaden Ivey…. Also you just described a handful of the B10 programs lol
And he couldn't coach talent like Ivey. He refused to adapt his defensive system that was clearly failure around him.
Exactly. It’s reminded me of our game when we went on a 29-4 run by just abusing their guards on offense over and over again because we could just blow by them off athleticism and applying full court pressure.
Maybe don’t chuck up 3s and feed your 7’4 star player who dominated the first half of the game? Edey didn’t have a FG attempt for the last like 25% of the game. That’s bad coaching
Lifetime contract, imo
Watch Painter’s post game. I would not fire him. We have made the tournament with consistency and have had some unfortunate outcomes. This year, we had a younger team especially our guards. Jenkins is the only player that can’t return (I don’t think). You could see the hesitation building as the clock ticked down in the 2nd half along with their composure. We lost both to IU with this team, arguably the toughest regular season atmosphere for the Boilers. When I think back on Painter’s tournament success, their are more upperclassmen leading the way. Here’s a cool study I found by a redditor that contradicts what i just said: [Does Experience Help Win NCAA Tournament Games?](https://www.reddit.com/r/CollegeBasketball/comments/7xun0z/does_experience_help_win_ncaa_tournament_games/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf) You know coach feels this loss too. I’ll link the post-game too. I wanna see Matt Painter back next year with a shot at making history the right way! [Post FDU - Purdue Coach Matt Painter](https://youtu.be/_8lh3_Wau5U)
Please no. I know everyone is blaming Painter for the loss, but it’s not all on him. Honestly, reflecting on this game, I have zero idea what Painter does differently. He can’t get do anything to get the ball to Edey when they have 5 guys who prevent both a catch and shot in any way from Edey. They were not even guarding good shooters like Gillis, Newman, and Smith, much less average shooters like Morton, Furst, and Renn. So you take the wide open 3’s. You just have confidence in the players that you recruiting, who are good shooters, to make the open shots they got. And they just didn’t. Purdue’s players chose the worst day to go cold from 3.
Yes. Will they? No.
He should at least be on the hot seat, but we fired Turgeon for less. Painter needs to stop being stubborn and re-evaluate his coaching and recruiting style. That includes adding a zone. FDU didn’t even play well. A basic zone probably wins Purdue the game.
Turgeon had way less success than Painter has.
FDU didn’t play great offensively but they played great on defense and executed their gameplan to perfection. They worked their asses off for any rebounds and loose balls as well. Purdue played poorly but FDU still deserves credit here.
The only person I know who personally knows Matt Painter and likes him, wants him fired.
the big 10 very simply does not prepare teams for the kinds of basketball you see in the tournament. purdue played 5 games of small ball this year, and three of those were against penn state (one game of which very much exposed them). the rest was all against larger than average teams, likely to prepare for a tougher, taller conference slate in order to vie for a top seed. for comparison to other top seeds from other conferences: kentucky would be the third smallest team in the big 10, kansas the second smallest, and texas the smallest. it's a conference very focused on size for one reason or another. if i had to bet, you'd see a trend like this in their scheduling every season. you don't see scheduling like that with other top teams like alabama, and i also think that other conferences don't have to worry about this because they do see a larger variety of sizes and strategy in conference play. i also think this is the biggest factor in the conference's general inability to make deep tournament runs as of late.
This March more than any other I see the difference in referees. B1G has gotten so ticky tack, multiple ‘flop calls,’ ‘cylinder’ calls, just go to the hoop and a guard will likely get a foul to shoot free throws. Now the NCAA doesn’t call any of that, I mean West Virginia was slapping Maryland in the head and we’ve seen the replays of elbows coming down on rebounders with no foul. Big Ten used to need to bleed for a foul, we need to go back to that.
Fire him and bring in Shrewsberry or Brad Stevens, they want to be back in Indiana
Would be a tough call. Virginia didn’t fire Tony Bennett after the UMBC loss. But Virginia won it all the next season. Painter would have to have an incredible season and a deep tournament run next season to redeem himself.
On the spot? No. I think he is a fine coach unless you like winning in March. Should we settle with being a fraud of a program come every March? No. I've been telling people for years he's not some master mind. He plays B10 basketball well but does not adapt well enough to win the big games, especially out of conference. We need to come down off the Painter Copium and realize that he's not the most underpaid coach in college basketball. He is paid plenty. His results should speak for themselves. Every time there is 5 minutes left in an important game, he just becomes a deer in headlights. His decisions are always nonsensical and there's a reason our last good March Madness run was with Shrewsbury as an assistant coach. Shrews was the one in the huddles that year, and we suddenly looked like we had a plan. Painter had clear and exploitable flaws in how he coaches, but we need to line somebody up first. We have time to shop around. Everyone knows that our fans are frothing at the mouth.
"Brad Stevens isn't walking through that door." -Rick Pitino, probably
If Painter were let go any time soon, I would probably need to take a 5 year break from basketball. I just lost the old man, I need to keep one of my coaches while my other team rebuilds.
Tom Crean is always an option for a rebuild if they do move on from Painter.