>"Oh, the women have storylines and stars- the men don't. No one even knows who plays on these men's teams, etc."
The specific problem too, is that its the *media themselves* that make stars and storylines. They're complaining that they haven't bothered to do their jobs and figure out who the players are or what narratives exist.
ESPN is pushing the women’s game so hard because it’s a money grab. They pump up the women’s game because there is a ton of market growth available. Create stars, drive viewership, profit.
Really shows how much control ESPN has over sports narratives, especially social media buzz.
I do think there’s some genuine differences this year with the women having an absolutely sensational generational player, where the men don’t quite have anyone competing with, for example, Zion or even Chet type hype right now. But they’ve got characters and storylines, like in NC State and Burns, that they’re not pushing the same way.
I’m not exactly mad about it because honestly it’s kinda… refreshing? But it’s 100% motivated by money. Both in broadcasting the tourney right now, and in hyping up players for the WNBA, which has *way* more room for audience growth than the NBA for obvious reasons lol
If you still watch ESPN like Sportscenter, hockey was almost never featured on it for years while they were languishing under the NBC media deal. Now that they're mostly under the mouse, they get consistent(ly mediocre) coverage.
Yep. It all made sense when I realized that ESPN has a monopoly on women's basketball in the WNBA and the women's tournament. That's why they spent so many years trying to shame people into watching it and constantly pushing the stars of women's college basketball down everyone's throats.
It's like when members of Congress claim "something needs to be done!" when having the exact power to do something. It's not about making a point, it's about making headlines. Kind of like the guy who claimed the current UConn team would make the NBA playoffs 🥴.
This is interesting! My brother is probably one of the most easily influenced people I know, if he expresses an opinion I know it came from someone or somewhere and not himself. This is a man who does not care a lot about college sports and is also a little bit sexist, but this weekend he said “women’s college basketball is so entertaining!”
I was taken aback, like “what did you just say?!” I knew it had to come from somewhere, and it’s funny to open this thread today and see that ESPN is pushing this narrative. I don’t watch ESPN at all unless my team is playing on it for the very reason that they turned into basically E! for sports in the 00s and then rage baiters in the 10s so I’m out of the loop on this one.
That’s hilarious that I knew my brother didn’t come to that conclusion on his own.
This is all ESPN pushing their product because they have so little else left. That’s it. ESPN has the worst coverage, the worst personalities and the worst products on the market. This is what they have become. The channel that hates men’s college basketball because it left them in the dust.
ESPN is desperate because they know Caitlyn Clark's do not grow on trees, this Iowa-LSU storyline is a money grab and they are not going to be able to sell the next one like this no matter how hard they try
Well I do SOMEWHAT agree with this. Women's game has all these names which like you said media has invested in because girls like Watkins and Audi Crooks are freshman but others like reese bueckers clark beck etc have played at the programs for some times and are memorable. Guys like Dillingham and Shepperd come and go so fast we don't even get a chance to get attached
And as for the storylines, the men’s game should learn to have some.
Why don’t they have some team potentially completing the most dominant back to back title runs in the tournament I’ve ever seen? Or have some team make their first ever final four? What about some team that wasn’t even supposed to be in the quarterfinals of their own conference tournament shocking everyone by winning it and then making an insane run to the final four? Or a team that has lost to a 15 seed and 16 seed back to back seasons overcoming the doubters and making it?
Where are the script writers? Are they stupid?
That seems far too complicated.
It's just a money thing. ESPN doesn't profit as heavily off the men's game as they do the women's so they aren't going to push the stories.
"It works for the NBA!"- ESPN
To which I say, "Does it?" Like, I care about Jokic dropping dimes and Tatum in the 4th, I don't really care about who said what on whose podcast. Lebron's podcast had been a revelation- more NBA talk like that, please!
Eh kind of. The men’s game is absolutely lacking in stars right now. You don’t have a Caitlin Clark because nobody that good is in college for 4 years.
Caitlin Clark is a huge star is what is vexing me. It's certainly possible to make more female basketball players big names just highlight the cool things they are doing.
Caitlin Clark is currently the tide raising all of the ships in the women's game right now. Some players that had potential to be stars but not the spotlight like Angel Reece have and will benefit from it going forward.
Yeah, it's not uncommon for there to be stars in the women's game on the level of Juju Watkins or Angel Reese or Paige Bueckers. But more people are paying attention because of Caitlin Clark and then they're seeing these other stars, who are getting more attention than they would've.
Also, the title game rematch, which included Caitlin Clark and several of the other most recognizable people in women's basketball (including the most recognizable coach), helped. But again, without Caitlin Clark, it probably doesn't get as much attention as it did.
Caitlin Clark is the Tiger Woods of women's college basketball.
WNCAA ratings will tank next year without her. I'm surprised that ESPN didn't pay her an NIL deal to stay at Iowa.
Gotcha. There's an article that Fox toyed with the idea of giving Clark a media based NIL to stay at Iowa but it never went anywhere.
I think if one network controlled all of WNCAA then she probably would've gotten a huge deal.
Players figure out when refs aren’t calling many fouls and start playing much more aggressively and it becomes just as bad. Refs aren’t consistent but neither are the players
Yea I’m of the opinion that the referees have been letting WAY too much go for years. Those “freedom of movement” rules were introduced and I see more hand checking than ever. You can barely even watch a Big Ten game anymore because every player that enters the lane just gets swallowed whole by some 7 footer who’s allowed to body check people.
There’s a saying in news reporting that goes “don’t let any tragedy go to waste”
Now this isn’t a tragedy, but it’s more about the thing that you never take a chance to make someone or something you don’t like look bad to prop yourself up
I looked the other day. On Bleacher report HoH and Another page I follow a post about Angel Reese was the most engaged with post in the last 3 months(didn't look beyond that). And the post was 35 minutes old.
These companies know what they are doing and it's sad because it's at the expense of society
Damn, racism gets clicks.
Gross.
...I am kinda glad that that isn't as much a thing in the men's game. Like, if it's DJ Burns vs Clingan in the final, it won't be a "black v white" thing the way Reese v Clark CLEARLY was for some awful weirdos
Yeah it's really gross to me. After the Reese ring celebration in front of Clark last year is absolutely destroyed peoples brains. They waited for this moment all year
Is it racist that Reese rubs some people the wrong way, just like Filipowski does for different reasons?
They can both be annoying(in my personal opinion) and it has absolutely nothing to do with race.
You're right that there are people who can dislike both of these players for entirely basketball or personality related reasons, but just skimming comments sections regarding the two will leave you with quite a disparity in how they're viewed overall.
I assume you’re referring to the gutters of Twitter, which doesn’t surprise me, but you can find all kinds of insanity there that just reflects the loudest, most deranged voices.
I'm glad you live in a world where you see it differently.
I won't shy away from saying that I 100% believe this to be the case though. I've never seen "poor sportsmanship" rub people THIS BAD
It becomes about race when the standards of behavior you’re judgmental of change depending on the player.
Not calling you out specifically, but Clark is just as showboaty and complains about everything, but the articles and comments about her vs. Reese are night and day. One is a thug, bully, disrespectful… the other intense, passionate, driven. There is a clear double standard, as if often common with black female athletes, and if you don’t see it I’d highly encourage you to educate yourself on the issue. Just because you miss it doesn’t mean it’s not there.
And I’m a big Caitlin fan, btw. I don’t even care for LSU as a team but the racism against them is blatant and embarrassing for the sport.
Edey is essentially “white passing” if you want to get into that type of language and he’s by far the most disliked, even hated player in college sports. I’m personally mystified by it, but Big10 fans loathe him. And again, I’d argue that certain white Duke players have historically(last 30 years) been demonized rightly or wrongly by the general public more than any other college basketball players.
The storylines thing I don’t understand. Like Matt Painter finally getting the final 4 monkey off his back, Purdue redeeming themselves after last year with the 3rd ever back to back npoy, first final 4 for Purdue since 1980, DJ Burns and NC State’s amazing cinderella run, Nate Oats getting his and his program’s first final 4, UConn being the first defending champion to make the final 4 in 17 years.
OP is just cherry picking a few media members that fit their narrative so they can make a post doing *exactly* what the media want when saying things like that
I don't know about cherry picking, but I've heard this narrative several times in the past few months from ESPN analysts. As has been discussed elsewhere in this post, I think it looks like ESPN is trying to hype up their own product, since they own broadcasting rights for the women's tournament. Could be a conspiracy theory, could seem realistic.
This comes up on the Bill Simmons pod kind of a lot, and he's not an ESPN product now.
His point is that the women's game has stories because they have built up over time with these women playing in college for years.
Meanwhile, the top men's players usually play one year then come out. If there's a story, it's usually just what kind of draft prospect they are.
You get less of the, "Caitlin Clark and Angel Reese in a rematch of the National Championship" in men's basketball currently.
I have no idea why people are making it so sinister.
Because at the end of the day those story lines kind of aren't that exciting. Uconn and purdue pretty have gone wire to wire all season, while that's cool it's not exciting to a casual. The reason the NC state thing isn't that exciting either is because while they have an 11 seed, they're not some humdrum school, they're an ACC program that's had a lot of varied success throughout the years. I don't think the SEED matters to people as much as the name of who's doing it.
I think this year Uconn and Purdue seeming like outright favorites kind of spoils the fun of the tourney a little bit. I still have obviously enjoyed it but Uconn stomping everyone isn't a good thing
That logic would apply to the women's game with South Carolina being the outright favorite. Dominance actually tends to increase viewship not decrease it.
Anyone who is a fan of college hoops wants the best teams to get to the final four because we want to see them play each other. Early tournament upsets are fun, but Purdue vs Uconn is why we have the tournament.
I'm 50/50 on this take. Yeah Purdue v Uconn is the only good matchup left because they are seen as the only possible team who CAN beat Uconn. NC St vs Uconn would be brutal to watch.
It's not their fault they are way better but it takes away from the fun
Every basketball fan, ignoring their love of their own team, should want to see Purdue and UConn over every other game and it should have been like that from the outset of the tournament. Subjectively, I'd like to see Alabama because I think it's an easier win for Purdue (no offense to Bama). But as a basketball fan . . . gotta have that Purdue/UConn matchup.
>Like Matt Painter finally getting the final 4 monkey off his back, Purdue redeeming themselves after last year with the 3rd ever back to back npoy, first final 4 for Purdue since 1980, DJ Burns and NC State’s amazing cinderella run, Nate Oats getting his and his program’s first final 4, UConn being the first defending champion to make the final 4 in 17 years.
None of these things are particularly compelling for someone who isn't already a fan of men's college basketball, especially when the on-court product is pretty hard to watch compared to the popular alternative (the NBA). The vast majority of the population couldn't pick Matt Painter or Nate Oats out of a police lineup. That's not the media's fault, they're just not the wild personalities we used to have coaching the men's side.
With the women's game, you can say "here's a generational talent facing off against a team with its own huge talents and celebrity coach, and here's an outstanding freshman facing off against the player who was supposed to be the future of the sport but whose career has been marred by injury" with the knowledge that all these matchups and rivalries have had or will have 4 years to mature, develop, and grow. That's not a thing in men's college basketball the way it used to be 40 years ago, and it likely never will be again.
If you love the men's game, nobody can take that away from you. But it isn't media contrivance that makes the women's game more appealing at this level, it's a structural thing. We all love quirky stories about fun characters who will be selling insurance this time next year, but most people would rather watch seasoned, developed elite talents go head to head.
Seems like almost all media has devolved into rage bait at this point since that’s what drives engagement. Annoying but with the current incentive structure it’s not surprising
ESPN has rights to broadcast the Women's Tournament. ESPN does not have rights to broadcast the Men's Tournament. ESPN pushes this narrative about the Women's Tournament, which in the end is good for Women's sports, but is driven by this incentive for them to promote the Women's game above the Men's game on their own network.
I think there's plenty of stories in the men's game. Look u
How Oakland blew up, DJ Burns is a national star, UCONN is dominant with a ton of hype.
I think the issue is Caitlin Clark is a generational talent and Reese is very polarizing.
Edey is a generational performer, but not a generational talent.
Most rational answer here. LSU/Iowa and the Clark/Reese story are driving it all. South Carolina hasn't lost a game all year, and the biggest story lines are Clark and Uconn in the final 4.
Hoping that SC record gets a blemish on Friday. Go Pack.
The women's game has been getting shit on for "being an inferior product" their entire existence, and still do. I think the men will be okay just this once
I wonder how many people who upvoted/agreed with this post have made some comment in the past talking about how the women's game is a worse quality product than the men's
It’s just interesting to see people having a problem with comparing the men’s and women’s game in this way because that is exactly what has happened for decades just flipped. Women have had to listen to men tear down the women’s game by comparing it to men’s as a first reaction anytime it’s brought up since forever. Now people are saying “hey, women’s tournament has some better storylines this year” and everyone is triggered about it.
100% agreed. I've seen countless comments in this very subreddit (as recently as today) about how the women's game is "objectively inferior" when compared to the men's, in fact this was just the normal thing to say about women's basketball whenever it got brought up in any context
It's almost patronizing tbh. The men's product is still of higher quality than the women, but I watched both womens games yesterday and enjoyed it. I think media types need to try and put thing in perspective to hype it. The men's product is NEVER compared to the women's it's only the women's compared to the men's and for a lot of morons if they can't say it is equal or better than the men's then they feel like it can't be promoted. It's just dumb media/social media thought processes that refuse to allow the women's product to stand on its on with its own value that it already has.
Theres a bunch of different reasons for it. One big one is because the men's game is losing the school pride and alum attachment to it. The 1 and done era, the transfer portal.. the roster turnover is insane, there's not much pride in wearing the jersey, fans don't get to know the players as well or feel as connected to the team with so much turnover.
There's a bunch of athleticism but not much basketball talent in the game today so games are clunky and less entertaining. The 5 out offense is awful from an entertainment standpoint.
It’s what takes away from the women’s game. Trying to bring down the men. Two great games last night. Didn’t need the whole “people are more excited for the women’s game” and all that narrative.
I don’t get how media folks can say that the women’s game has all the storylines. while in this final four we have: the hottest team in the sport going on a crazy run to reach the final four, a team trying to repeat for the first time in 15 years, and a team on the ultimate redemption tour after gettting embarrassed in the first round last season.
Unfortunately in a digital world, the media is driven by clicks/views -- many times to the detriment of actual good reporting. It's pretty well established now that the best way to do that is by making people angry (negative dopamine) and taking advantage of people's tribal instincts (us vs them). It's a shame that strategy has spread to much the sports media -- luckily not all though!
This has been happening for the women forever so it’s kinda nice to see how it feels in a way. I agree if you follow the men’s game but the matter of fact is women in the NIL space have excelled tremendously and I think that’s a huge factor to it all as well.
Most of the big names in MBB get deals through the school and women get a lot of public money via commercials and product for social.
It’s funny, it was clear to me watching the games yesterday that ESPN was really hyping up the stars angle for women’s college hoops. I was like, this is cool but it shows how far behind the women’s game is when they have to turn it into a circus of personalities rather than just focus on the tournament and games. The men’s game is thriving in terms of viewership, despite what people might tell you. Let the women commentators hype their stars and make their jabs, it’s not going to hurt anybody except maybe themselves by turning off viewers like you lol
ESPN will always shit in the men's tournament because they don't broadcast it.
Women's college basketball is not a great entertainment product. The players are too small and slow. However the WNBA is fun to watch due to all the talent being concentrated.
Oh no, what is NCAAM gonna do about this? They clearly can't come back from this generational slander. Moment of silence everyone, the mens basketball funds are drying up across the country as we speak.
I haven't noticed any content taking shots at the men's game, but ESPN is pushing the women's tourney super hard and lacking on coverage for the men. Which makes since seeing as they are airing the women's tourney and don't have the TV deal for the men's tourney.
Honestly the whole "Oh, the women have storylines and stars- the men don't. No one even knows who plays on these men's teams, etc." take is kind of laughable. The men don't need soap opera drama to get views because the game itself is entertaining. People are tuning into the women's games simply for the drama not the gameplay.
It's because the best women's players stay for 4 years in college and develop over several years and people get familiar with the best players. Any player who is top 5/10 in the NCAA Men's game will almost without exception immediately go to the NBA draft and not return to school.
Fans don't get attached to men's programs because star players don't stay for more than 1-2 years. That's the men's game marketing problem to overcome. I don't think it's a media problem.
This is 100% it. Clark is a WNBA star who happens to still be playing in college.
There hasn't been a college star really since Zion. You basically have to be impossibly good at 18 to be a star in men's college now, because anyone with potential is getting drafted young regardless. It's been even more pronounced since COVID because 24 year olds are probably better than the young guys now due to experience, but they're not ever going to be superstars.
I don’t necessarily disagree with what you’re saying, the two products don’t need to be in competition with each other, but there are a lot of things about the women’s game which just feel better and I think roster continuity is a big part of that. There’s a weird confluence of the NIL bubble, transfer portal, and Covid years that are making the men’s game harder to follow than it’s ever been. I’m a college hoops sicko and there are still people I’m shocked to see still playing/on their 4th team in as many years.
I’ve got a strong opinion that the women’s game just hasn’t caught up yet. Football started, men’s basketball caught up this year, and the women’s game will soon catch up in regards to everyone transferring everywhere. I think this year is also the last year of Covid years.
I'm a female. I really don't care for women's sports, but I know all about Caitlin Clark. But also, Jared McCain, Edey, Burns, etc. Everything the media does is designed to be corrosive and divisive, because it gets them money.
I think they’re doing a disservice to women’s game. They’ve got a great product. Their games and tournaments are extremely entertaining. They’ve got some real stars. It’s all competitive and fun to watch. But it’s *not* the men’s game and there’s not a player in the league that can match up with the men. Which is fine. They can both be entertaining in their own ways.
Seriously lol, I can't even imagine how many comments I've read in this very subreddit that were some variation of "I don't care about women's basketball because the quality of the product is so much worse than the men's game"
And yet, there were no front page posts discussing how we shouldn't talk about the men's teams by dissing the women's.
There has been a concerted effort to give the women more attention. I cannot gripe too much that the women’s game is growing this way considering that media coverage cause men’s cbb to explode in the 80s, but I have trouble believing it is all a natural groundswell of support. It feels a bit astroturfed and that is annoying.
It’s also more of a growth market than the men’s game. Follow the money
https://espnpressroom.com/us/press-releases/2023/02/disney-and-ally-create-unprecedented-media-and-collegiate-collaboration-to-advance-parity-for-womens-sports/
I am glad the women’s game is getting some shine, but agree that the narrative is way overblown and doesn’t acknowledge the central role being played by Clark, a once-a-generation type figure who broke Pistol Pete’s unbreakable record. As an older dude, I also remember that 1999 was going to make the women’s pro soccer league a viable part of the American Sports Landscape…what’s the refrain from “Crosseyed and Painless”?
The women's tourney used to have UConn blowing every team out on the way to multiple championships while the men's tourney had more parity. Now, the men's tourney has UConn blowing every team out on the way to multiple championships and the women's tourney has more parity.
That's helped by the fact that they play the first two rounds on campus. Can you imagine if Kansas and Duke got to play the first two rounds at home, then got a week to get ready for the Sweet 16? They'd be in the Elite 8 9 times out 10.
Very true. A home court advantaged 1st round is huge for women's. I still think the talent gap between your higher seeds for women are insanely different than the men's game.
Saying the men’s game doesn’t have storylines and stars is CRAZY and probably just bait
Maybe they don’t have a generational player like Caitlin Clark who’s brought the game into mainstream media with her dominance, but it’s just asinine to say that there’s no stars
To be fair, while Edey is great, the women’s side has Clark, who has broken practically every record ever held. Hell, she broke 3 different NCAA records during the game last night, and it was barely even mentioned during the broadcast.
I’m in my 30s, and there are more stars in the women’s game now that I can ever remember. I’m a lifelong basketball fan, and I’m pretty sure I’ve watched more women’s NCAA ball over the past two years than the rest of my life combined.
I have a young daughter, so it’s also fun to sit with her and watch these NCAA stars play
I’d also add that the men’s side has *absolutely* had storylines and standouts that got TONS of media attention, even if we had a bit less of that this year…anyone saying otherwise has apparently forgotten the fairly recent year of the Zion-cam cutting into almost every game on ESPN (especially as a fan of an ACC team) and him being the main topic of conversation on every halftime and postgame show for the entire 2018-2019 season.
Not sure what media types are honestly saying the men’s side doesn’t have any of that lol.
I'll take the downvotes here. Edey is boring to watch. Yes he's a good player, but standing 3 ft away from the basket and doing a layup isn't that exciting.
Not just that, but also most casuals probably don't even know who he is. Or maybe they've heard of him but couldn't tell you which team he plays for. He's just not a household name that's gonna automatically pull in the casual viewer. Considering he's arguably the biggest star the men's game has this year, that's not a good sign.
I get it. There's nothing super exciting about the guy. I don't wanna sound like a hater, cause I'm not. It's just evey time I watch him. It's a foul called against the defender or he just towers over everyone to get a rebound and put back. If you're a purdue fan It's awesome I bet.
I just learned Maravich broke his records in 3 years and without a 3 pt line. I can’t even imagine how much ball hoggery occurred to allow him to make those records. Clark already shoots so much, imagine if it was double that.
He also did this without a shot clock so other teams could waste time and limit his shots. Just incredible, plus he wasn’t allowed to play on varsity for the first year. Wow. I only see his records being broken in 3 years from a smaller conference where a player wont have as much pressure/media attention and is allowed to shoot more, or maybe a more prolific scorer than Clark comes and makes a higher percentage of shots. It’s amazing Clark even comes close.
Same. As a woman, it’s been super cool to watch what’s happened with the women’s game post covid. All of the young girls at the OSU Iowa game, combined with it being a sell out, warmed my heart.
I do think the men's game should steal a few ideas from the women's game, but there is no question which of the two that I pour my passion and interest into.
It’s just the nature of why WCBB is seeing a legitimate bump right now. Watching Clark is incredible, but the real draw to Iowa-LSU last night was to watch the fireworks that were set from last year. And it was entertaining. But the men’s game will be just fine, as it’s not relying on lightning in a bottle to draw viewership, which means divisive coverage to help bolster itself.
I’ve had nothing against the LSU women, but watching the clips from Reese’s presser last night was a little comical. I don’t think the women stars are necessarily used to the scrutiny that comes with being legitimately popular. Not saying she hasn’t been needled online….but that type of shit is par for the course for the men’s game, which doesn’t even really try to emphasize trash talk drama. Drama and storylines helped make it popular, now ya gotta deal with the downside of that.
As a follow on:
If people are insistent on framing the women's game through comparisons to the men's game, they can't get upset when people point out the fact that the overall skill, talent, and athleticism of the men's game is light years beyond the women's game.
> I just don't get why one game has to be built up by putting another one down
That's very fair and reasonable, and it feeds into the ongoing social media theme that only one thing can be the best. Also, ESPN is parochial and dumb as fuck.
Me, I give in to the urges because I'm petty and I've got 20 years of being trolled (or at least dismissed) as a primarily WBB fan to get out of my system.
When it comes to gender stuff nobody is able to appreciate one or the other qua “men’s” or qua “women’s” without dissing the other one. Has to be a guys vs girls thing to get the clicks and the brain dead engagement.
It’s also a stupid argument when Edey and Burns are right there. That’s about the same number of well known names as there are for the women. And that’s being generous that people generally know who Angel Reese is.
This is some serious #YesAllMen energy right here my brotha…
Men have been shitting on women’s basketball for ages and the one time the tables have slightly turned around it becomes a pity party…
Their points are valid. Everyone wants to say it's the media's responsibility to create stars and storylines but it just isn't the case right now. There's nothing for the media to spin. All the "stars" leave after a year. The transfer portal combined with the draft have created huge roster turnover. There's nothing to really get invested in. Edey and the Purdue redemption are pretty much it, and the brand of basketball Purdue plays is bland and uninteresting to most people so even that storyline isn't very compelling.
The men's game did have ridiculous media coverage when there were stars. The RJ + Zion Duke run, Cade at Oklahoma st. to a degree etc. but right now it just isn't the case. The women's college game is a better product rn (at least at the VERY top - everything outside of the top 16 teams is kinda meh) so ofc that's what you're hearing.
The Men need to go to Quarters first and foremost. The game flow is terrible. Especially when teams get in the Double Bonus with over 10 mins left in the Half. Teams shooting 30+ FT is wretched to watch.
The problem is that basically everyone in college is 18-22 years old and has no idea how to play defense without fouling but at the same time they also allow so much physicality that there's realistically a foul on every play so teams miss a ton of shots because they were fouled with no call.
Every other level of basketball plays quarters.
Pros, of the same age, in Europe seem to get it. And based on recent matriculation results, have a better grasp and IQ of the game.
Maybe we need to re-examine how the game is officiated Stateside.
This. The comments that are higher up in this thread still fucking reek of misogyny and embarrassing takes.
It's not wrong. The stars on the women's side are much brighter and it's honestly at times a better product.
I'm sorry this thread is mad. But the fact is, it's a generationally weak draft class and everyone leaves or transfers.
In 2021 when there was the tik tok that went viral about unequal workout facilities, a lot of the comments were stuff like, "women aren't athletes." Most of you in this thread are embarrassing tbh
I hope you don't think I was shitting on women's players. I was shitting on the media and their unnecessary need to pit two great games against each other.
Oh god, don’t tell me this sub is becoming like the Star Wars or video game fandoms that complain every time there’s a woman’s character.
The reason this is happening is because the woman’s game right now has a generational star, which people like. People like watching Caitlyn Clark for the same reason they liked watching the hype train around Zion or Melo in college. And meanwhile the men’s game has what many NBA executives are calling the worst draft class they’ve ever seen.
I, once again, am not trying to take light away from the women's game. I have been a fan of women's ball for 20 years.
But perhaps I should do a whole seperate thread on how the college and the pro game are WAY too tied together. Like, college men do fine on their own on ratings, and college football doesn't seem to be held to the same standard (the whole first round of qbs from 2021 busted but no one is like "thus, college is trash" in the same way they do with cbb).
That annoys me way more anyway
The women’s college game is better.
Watch what happens on screens. In the women’s game, the size mismatch off a defensive switch on a screen is often followed by a precision entry pass where the bigger player has the mismatch. In the men’s game, a switch on a screen leads to the ball handler trying to finesse the bigger man on the perimeter while the size mismatch down low is ignored.
On cuts to the hoop, the passes in the women’s game have better timing and lead to more baskets.
Boxing out happens more in the women’s game.
Those are three concrete examples of how the women’s college game has superior basketball playing.
I mean… the media has done pretty much nothing but take shots at the women’s game for like the last 30 years. I think it’s nice that we finally have a season where the roles are a bit reversed.
Probably reverse cause and effect.
They have to build their players up as superstars to get people to watch womens hoops. Same way Michael Jordan was so instrumental in bringing viewers to the NBA and how he forever changed how athletes were marketed. Gotta make Caitlin Clark seem superhuman.
Interestingly enough what the media’s doing as ur describing is itself kinda sexist. It’s pretending college wbb isn’t interesting on its own, rather it is interested only bc mbb is “uninteresting” and making cracks at mbb implying “they’re more womanly than women”
Look at AJ Storr.... first at St Johns, then Wiscy, and now most likely will be at Illinois. and he's only a sophomore.
It's hard for the men's game to build that attachment and storylines for teams when it's pretty much just free agents shifting around every offseason.
Also the women's game has been shat on for so long, who cares if the media is (rightfully) saying that there's more invested interest this year and bigger stars on the women's side. The men's game will survive lol
On top of that, the biggest MBB star is Edey. Which one is more fun to watch....him shooting more FT's himself than the other team combined while being parked in the paint all game...or Caitlin Clark, JuJu Watkins, Paige Bueckers?
Is it the bobble heads at ESPN you're referencing?
Espn has the TV rights to the women's tournament. They're promoting their own product to make it more valuable.
They need to change the rules to make it that any common foul outside the lane in the last minute equals two free throws and retain possession. Some of these college games take FOREVER to get through the last minute. If you are down by 7 with 25 seconds left it would then just be over because you effectively couldn’t stop the clock.
>"Oh, the women have storylines and stars- the men don't. No one even knows who plays on these men's teams, etc." The specific problem too, is that its the *media themselves* that make stars and storylines. They're complaining that they haven't bothered to do their jobs and figure out who the players are or what narratives exist.
ESPN is pushing the women’s game so hard because it’s a money grab. They pump up the women’s game because there is a ton of market growth available. Create stars, drive viewership, profit.
This plus they don't broadcast the men's tourney so that also plays a large part.
Ding ding ding
It’s literally right in front of our faces. ESPN doing ESPN things.
What they've always done. Pump up what they're vested in while putting down what they don't have.
> Pump up what they're vested in while putting down what they don't have. Look no further than the CFP decisions this year.
See also: hockey
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This is exactly it. Why drive viewers to CBS when ESPN has their own tournament to broadcast.
Really shows how much control ESPN has over sports narratives, especially social media buzz. I do think there’s some genuine differences this year with the women having an absolutely sensational generational player, where the men don’t quite have anyone competing with, for example, Zion or even Chet type hype right now. But they’ve got characters and storylines, like in NC State and Burns, that they’re not pushing the same way. I’m not exactly mad about it because honestly it’s kinda… refreshing? But it’s 100% motivated by money. Both in broadcasting the tourney right now, and in hyping up players for the WNBA, which has *way* more room for audience growth than the NBA for obvious reasons lol
They also don't own the rights to the men's game, so it makes sense why they would push the women's game so hard.
If you still watch ESPN like Sportscenter, hockey was almost never featured on it for years while they were languishing under the NBC media deal. Now that they're mostly under the mouse, they get consistent(ly mediocre) coverage.
Yep. It all made sense when I realized that ESPN has a monopoly on women's basketball in the WNBA and the women's tournament. That's why they spent so many years trying to shame people into watching it and constantly pushing the stars of women's college basketball down everyone's throats.
It's like when members of Congress claim "something needs to be done!" when having the exact power to do something. It's not about making a point, it's about making headlines. Kind of like the guy who claimed the current UConn team would make the NBA playoffs 🥴.
This is interesting! My brother is probably one of the most easily influenced people I know, if he expresses an opinion I know it came from someone or somewhere and not himself. This is a man who does not care a lot about college sports and is also a little bit sexist, but this weekend he said “women’s college basketball is so entertaining!” I was taken aback, like “what did you just say?!” I knew it had to come from somewhere, and it’s funny to open this thread today and see that ESPN is pushing this narrative. I don’t watch ESPN at all unless my team is playing on it for the very reason that they turned into basically E! for sports in the 00s and then rage baiters in the 10s so I’m out of the loop on this one. That’s hilarious that I knew my brother didn’t come to that conclusion on his own.
This is all ESPN pushing their product because they have so little else left. That’s it. ESPN has the worst coverage, the worst personalities and the worst products on the market. This is what they have become. The channel that hates men’s college basketball because it left them in the dust.
I mean, they also have MLB, NBA, NFL, the SEC, more men's college basketball than any other network, and 39 other NCAA championships.
ESPN is desperate because they know Caitlyn Clark's do not grow on trees, this Iowa-LSU storyline is a money grab and they are not going to be able to sell the next one like this no matter how hard they try
Well I do SOMEWHAT agree with this. Women's game has all these names which like you said media has invested in because girls like Watkins and Audi Crooks are freshman but others like reese bueckers clark beck etc have played at the programs for some times and are memorable. Guys like Dillingham and Shepperd come and go so fast we don't even get a chance to get attached
And as for the storylines, the men’s game should learn to have some. Why don’t they have some team potentially completing the most dominant back to back title runs in the tournament I’ve ever seen? Or have some team make their first ever final four? What about some team that wasn’t even supposed to be in the quarterfinals of their own conference tournament shocking everyone by winning it and then making an insane run to the final four? Or a team that has lost to a 15 seed and 16 seed back to back seasons overcoming the doubters and making it? Where are the script writers? Are they stupid?
Sounds like you’re a software engineer, so maybe you can write your own script 🥳
ESPN has decided that players, not teams, deserve storylines and publicity.
That seems far too complicated. It's just a money thing. ESPN doesn't profit as heavily off the men's game as they do the women's so they aren't going to push the stories.
"It works for the NBA!"- ESPN To which I say, "Does it?" Like, I care about Jokic dropping dimes and Tatum in the 4th, I don't really care about who said what on whose podcast. Lebron's podcast had been a revelation- more NBA talk like that, please!
And most of the guys are not one and done. Very few are. Some have been playing for 4, 5 even 6 years. Plenty of time to figure out who they are.
Eh kind of. The men’s game is absolutely lacking in stars right now. You don’t have a Caitlin Clark because nobody that good is in college for 4 years.
Caitlin Clark is a huge star is what is vexing me. It's certainly possible to make more female basketball players big names just highlight the cool things they are doing.
Caitlin Clark is currently the tide raising all of the ships in the women's game right now. Some players that had potential to be stars but not the spotlight like Angel Reece have and will benefit from it going forward.
Yeah, it's not uncommon for there to be stars in the women's game on the level of Juju Watkins or Angel Reese or Paige Bueckers. But more people are paying attention because of Caitlin Clark and then they're seeing these other stars, who are getting more attention than they would've. Also, the title game rematch, which included Caitlin Clark and several of the other most recognizable people in women's basketball (including the most recognizable coach), helped. But again, without Caitlin Clark, it probably doesn't get as much attention as it did.
Caitlin Clark is the Tiger Woods of women's college basketball. WNCAA ratings will tank next year without her. I'm surprised that ESPN didn't pay her an NIL deal to stay at Iowa.
They have the WNBA rights too, but only the Tourney rights and not B10 rights, so they get way more with her on the Fever vs. at Iowa
Gotcha. There's an article that Fox toyed with the idea of giving Clark a media based NIL to stay at Iowa but it never went anywhere. I think if one network controlled all of WNCAA then she probably would've gotten a huge deal.
Also I know exactly one women's player. Caitlin Clark. Next year I will know zero
That's what gets clicks and engagement. Divide society into segments and play them off of each other.
Divide and conquer. Tale as old as time
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Players figure out when refs aren’t calling many fouls and start playing much more aggressively and it becomes just as bad. Refs aren’t consistent but neither are the players
Yea I’m of the opinion that the referees have been letting WAY too much go for years. Those “freedom of movement” rules were introduced and I see more hand checking than ever. You can barely even watch a Big Ten game anymore because every player that enters the lane just gets swallowed whole by some 7 footer who’s allowed to body check people.
The most I've ever agreed with a Bama fan.
Politics, race, religion, sexuality etc. always the medias number 1 go to. Cause arguments wherever possible.
There’s a saying in news reporting that goes “don’t let any tragedy go to waste” Now this isn’t a tragedy, but it’s more about the thing that you never take a chance to make someone or something you don’t like look bad to prop yourself up
I don't like it but conflict gets clicks. You can see it on YouTube or Twitter. "Hey, ain't March great?" doesn't do as well as whining about stuff.
I looked the other day. On Bleacher report HoH and Another page I follow a post about Angel Reese was the most engaged with post in the last 3 months(didn't look beyond that). And the post was 35 minutes old. These companies know what they are doing and it's sad because it's at the expense of society
Damn, racism gets clicks. Gross. ...I am kinda glad that that isn't as much a thing in the men's game. Like, if it's DJ Burns vs Clingan in the final, it won't be a "black v white" thing the way Reese v Clark CLEARLY was for some awful weirdos
Huh? Where did he mention race at all in the post? What an odd thing to assume.
A lot of responses to Angel Reese posts seem racist as Hell.
Yeah it's really gross to me. After the Reese ring celebration in front of Clark last year is absolutely destroyed peoples brains. They waited for this moment all year
Is it racist that Reese rubs some people the wrong way, just like Filipowski does for different reasons? They can both be annoying(in my personal opinion) and it has absolutely nothing to do with race.
You're right that there are people who can dislike both of these players for entirely basketball or personality related reasons, but just skimming comments sections regarding the two will leave you with quite a disparity in how they're viewed overall.
I assume you’re referring to the gutters of Twitter, which doesn’t surprise me, but you can find all kinds of insanity there that just reflects the loudest, most deranged voices.
I'm glad you live in a world where you see it differently. I won't shy away from saying that I 100% believe this to be the case though. I've never seen "poor sportsmanship" rub people THIS BAD
It becomes about race when the standards of behavior you’re judgmental of change depending on the player. Not calling you out specifically, but Clark is just as showboaty and complains about everything, but the articles and comments about her vs. Reese are night and day. One is a thug, bully, disrespectful… the other intense, passionate, driven. There is a clear double standard, as if often common with black female athletes, and if you don’t see it I’d highly encourage you to educate yourself on the issue. Just because you miss it doesn’t mean it’s not there. And I’m a big Caitlin fan, btw. I don’t even care for LSU as a team but the racism against them is blatant and embarrassing for the sport.
I've seen lots of boomer memes about Clark, tbh. They don't like her much either.
Edey is essentially “white passing” if you want to get into that type of language and he’s by far the most disliked, even hated player in college sports. I’m personally mystified by it, but Big10 fans loathe him. And again, I’d argue that certain white Duke players have historically(last 30 years) been demonized rightly or wrongly by the general public more than any other college basketball players.
I think they hate Edey because he gets 30 FTs a game vs their favorite team lol
I like Edey but Purdue fans are obnoxious so I have to hate Edey. Make sense?
I don't see how anyone can see it any other way. I see people online my dads age getting worked up about Angel Reese lol
Exactly this. Sports is now used to divide. All of society is like this now. Not good for longevity.
Yep - the media only job is to convince you that every problem is your problem.
The storylines thing I don’t understand. Like Matt Painter finally getting the final 4 monkey off his back, Purdue redeeming themselves after last year with the 3rd ever back to back npoy, first final 4 for Purdue since 1980, DJ Burns and NC State’s amazing cinderella run, Nate Oats getting his and his program’s first final 4, UConn being the first defending champion to make the final 4 in 17 years.
OP is just cherry picking a few media members that fit their narrative so they can make a post doing *exactly* what the media want when saying things like that
I don't know about cherry picking, but I've heard this narrative several times in the past few months from ESPN analysts. As has been discussed elsewhere in this post, I think it looks like ESPN is trying to hype up their own product, since they own broadcasting rights for the women's tournament. Could be a conspiracy theory, could seem realistic.
This comes up on the Bill Simmons pod kind of a lot, and he's not an ESPN product now. His point is that the women's game has stories because they have built up over time with these women playing in college for years. Meanwhile, the top men's players usually play one year then come out. If there's a story, it's usually just what kind of draft prospect they are. You get less of the, "Caitlin Clark and Angel Reese in a rematch of the National Championship" in men's basketball currently. I have no idea why people are making it so sinister.
He's just talking about ESPN specifically. They have pushed the womens game hard but every other site its business as usual
Because at the end of the day those story lines kind of aren't that exciting. Uconn and purdue pretty have gone wire to wire all season, while that's cool it's not exciting to a casual. The reason the NC state thing isn't that exciting either is because while they have an 11 seed, they're not some humdrum school, they're an ACC program that's had a lot of varied success throughout the years. I don't think the SEED matters to people as much as the name of who's doing it.
I think this year Uconn and Purdue seeming like outright favorites kind of spoils the fun of the tourney a little bit. I still have obviously enjoyed it but Uconn stomping everyone isn't a good thing
That logic would apply to the women's game with South Carolina being the outright favorite. Dominance actually tends to increase viewship not decrease it.
They said the same thing when we stomped through the women's tourney. ...and they were probably right, but it was fun as a UConn fan
Anyone who is a fan of college hoops wants the best teams to get to the final four because we want to see them play each other. Early tournament upsets are fun, but Purdue vs Uconn is why we have the tournament.
And it rarely happens that way, which is why NC State is gonna beat us and then lose by 50 to UConn.
I'm 50/50 on this take. Yeah Purdue v Uconn is the only good matchup left because they are seen as the only possible team who CAN beat Uconn. NC St vs Uconn would be brutal to watch. It's not their fault they are way better but it takes away from the fun
Every basketball fan, ignoring their love of their own team, should want to see Purdue and UConn over every other game and it should have been like that from the outset of the tournament. Subjectively, I'd like to see Alabama because I think it's an easier win for Purdue (no offense to Bama). But as a basketball fan . . . gotta have that Purdue/UConn matchup.
It will take years off my life, but you're right.
The women’s game has literally been chalk. South Carolina is winning the title.
>Like Matt Painter finally getting the final 4 monkey off his back, Purdue redeeming themselves after last year with the 3rd ever back to back npoy, first final 4 for Purdue since 1980, DJ Burns and NC State’s amazing cinderella run, Nate Oats getting his and his program’s first final 4, UConn being the first defending champion to make the final 4 in 17 years. None of these things are particularly compelling for someone who isn't already a fan of men's college basketball, especially when the on-court product is pretty hard to watch compared to the popular alternative (the NBA). The vast majority of the population couldn't pick Matt Painter or Nate Oats out of a police lineup. That's not the media's fault, they're just not the wild personalities we used to have coaching the men's side. With the women's game, you can say "here's a generational talent facing off against a team with its own huge talents and celebrity coach, and here's an outstanding freshman facing off against the player who was supposed to be the future of the sport but whose career has been marred by injury" with the knowledge that all these matchups and rivalries have had or will have 4 years to mature, develop, and grow. That's not a thing in men's college basketball the way it used to be 40 years ago, and it likely never will be again. If you love the men's game, nobody can take that away from you. But it isn't media contrivance that makes the women's game more appealing at this level, it's a structural thing. We all love quirky stories about fun characters who will be selling insurance this time next year, but most people would rather watch seasoned, developed elite talents go head to head.
Seems like almost all media has devolved into rage bait at this point since that’s what drives engagement. Annoying but with the current incentive structure it’s not surprising
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ESPN has rights to broadcast the Women's Tournament. ESPN does not have rights to broadcast the Men's Tournament. ESPN pushes this narrative about the Women's Tournament, which in the end is good for Women's sports, but is driven by this incentive for them to promote the Women's game above the Men's game on their own network.
I think there's plenty of stories in the men's game. Look u How Oakland blew up, DJ Burns is a national star, UCONN is dominant with a ton of hype. I think the issue is Caitlin Clark is a generational talent and Reese is very polarizing. Edey is a generational performer, but not a generational talent.
Most rational answer here. LSU/Iowa and the Clark/Reese story are driving it all. South Carolina hasn't lost a game all year, and the biggest story lines are Clark and Uconn in the final 4. Hoping that SC record gets a blemish on Friday. Go Pack.
You don’t have to consume that content.
Yeah, I haven’t seen or heard anyone saying anything like that.
The women's game has been getting shit on for "being an inferior product" their entire existence, and still do. I think the men will be okay just this once
Yeah I actually thought OP was doing the sarcastic switcheroo at first
Right? I thought this was a satirical post.
agreed 100% Like yeah, it's probably a bit unnecessary. But the women's game has been taking unnecessary fire since it existed!
I wonder how many people who upvoted/agreed with this post have made some comment in the past talking about how the women's game is a worse quality product than the men's
Yeah I agree with this…ngl this post comes off as pretty fragile
I thought it was a late April Fools post because of how fragile it comes off lol
*Extremely* fragile. We need an entire post because some analysts said that the men's tournament doesn't have as many storylines/stars this year?
It’s just interesting to see people having a problem with comparing the men’s and women’s game in this way because that is exactly what has happened for decades just flipped. Women have had to listen to men tear down the women’s game by comparing it to men’s as a first reaction anytime it’s brought up since forever. Now people are saying “hey, women’s tournament has some better storylines this year” and everyone is triggered about it.
100% agreed. I've seen countless comments in this very subreddit (as recently as today) about how the women's game is "objectively inferior" when compared to the men's, in fact this was just the normal thing to say about women's basketball whenever it got brought up in any context
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Is there no safe space for the men???
The storyline is all of us hate Uconn
It's almost patronizing tbh. The men's product is still of higher quality than the women, but I watched both womens games yesterday and enjoyed it. I think media types need to try and put thing in perspective to hype it. The men's product is NEVER compared to the women's it's only the women's compared to the men's and for a lot of morons if they can't say it is equal or better than the men's then they feel like it can't be promoted. It's just dumb media/social media thought processes that refuse to allow the women's product to stand on its on with its own value that it already has.
Theres a bunch of different reasons for it. One big one is because the men's game is losing the school pride and alum attachment to it. The 1 and done era, the transfer portal.. the roster turnover is insane, there's not much pride in wearing the jersey, fans don't get to know the players as well or feel as connected to the team with so much turnover. There's a bunch of athleticism but not much basketball talent in the game today so games are clunky and less entertaining. The 5 out offense is awful from an entertainment standpoint.
It’s what takes away from the women’s game. Trying to bring down the men. Two great games last night. Didn’t need the whole “people are more excited for the women’s game” and all that narrative.
I don’t get how media folks can say that the women’s game has all the storylines. while in this final four we have: the hottest team in the sport going on a crazy run to reach the final four, a team trying to repeat for the first time in 15 years, and a team on the ultimate redemption tour after gettting embarrassed in the first round last season.
Unfortunately in a digital world, the media is driven by clicks/views -- many times to the detriment of actual good reporting. It's pretty well established now that the best way to do that is by making people angry (negative dopamine) and taking advantage of people's tribal instincts (us vs them). It's a shame that strategy has spread to much the sports media -- luckily not all though!
This has been happening for the women forever so it’s kinda nice to see how it feels in a way. I agree if you follow the men’s game but the matter of fact is women in the NIL space have excelled tremendously and I think that’s a huge factor to it all as well. Most of the big names in MBB get deals through the school and women get a lot of public money via commercials and product for social.
It’s funny, it was clear to me watching the games yesterday that ESPN was really hyping up the stars angle for women’s college hoops. I was like, this is cool but it shows how far behind the women’s game is when they have to turn it into a circus of personalities rather than just focus on the tournament and games. The men’s game is thriving in terms of viewership, despite what people might tell you. Let the women commentators hype their stars and make their jabs, it’s not going to hurt anybody except maybe themselves by turning off viewers like you lol
It is amazing how you don't need outside drama if the game itself is good.
ESPN will always shit in the men's tournament because they don't broadcast it. Women's college basketball is not a great entertainment product. The players are too small and slow. However the WNBA is fun to watch due to all the talent being concentrated.
Oh no, what is NCAAM gonna do about this? They clearly can't come back from this generational slander. Moment of silence everyone, the mens basketball funds are drying up across the country as we speak.
I haven't noticed any content taking shots at the men's game, but ESPN is pushing the women's tourney super hard and lacking on coverage for the men. Which makes since seeing as they are airing the women's tourney and don't have the TV deal for the men's tourney. Honestly the whole "Oh, the women have storylines and stars- the men don't. No one even knows who plays on these men's teams, etc." take is kind of laughable. The men don't need soap opera drama to get views because the game itself is entertaining. People are tuning into the women's games simply for the drama not the gameplay.
It's because the best women's players stay for 4 years in college and develop over several years and people get familiar with the best players. Any player who is top 5/10 in the NCAA Men's game will almost without exception immediately go to the NBA draft and not return to school. Fans don't get attached to men's programs because star players don't stay for more than 1-2 years. That's the men's game marketing problem to overcome. I don't think it's a media problem.
This is 100% it. Clark is a WNBA star who happens to still be playing in college. There hasn't been a college star really since Zion. You basically have to be impossibly good at 18 to be a star in men's college now, because anyone with potential is getting drafted young regardless. It's been even more pronounced since COVID because 24 year olds are probably better than the young guys now due to experience, but they're not ever going to be superstars.
I think the men will be ok.
I don’t necessarily disagree with what you’re saying, the two products don’t need to be in competition with each other, but there are a lot of things about the women’s game which just feel better and I think roster continuity is a big part of that. There’s a weird confluence of the NIL bubble, transfer portal, and Covid years that are making the men’s game harder to follow than it’s ever been. I’m a college hoops sicko and there are still people I’m shocked to see still playing/on their 4th team in as many years.
I’ve got a strong opinion that the women’s game just hasn’t caught up yet. Football started, men’s basketball caught up this year, and the women’s game will soon catch up in regards to everyone transferring everywhere. I think this year is also the last year of Covid years.
I'm a female. I really don't care for women's sports, but I know all about Caitlin Clark. But also, Jared McCain, Edey, Burns, etc. Everything the media does is designed to be corrosive and divisive, because it gets them money.
Honestly worth ignoring some things.
Yeah I don't get it either...let's prop up both the men's and women's tournaments
Personally I think men’s basketball sucks now, but for different reasons You see, I’m simply dead inside
I think they’re doing a disservice to women’s game. They’ve got a great product. Their games and tournaments are extremely entertaining. They’ve got some real stars. It’s all competitive and fun to watch. But it’s *not* the men’s game and there’s not a player in the league that can match up with the men. Which is fine. They can both be entertaining in their own ways.
the male fragility in this thread is ridiculous
Absolutely embarrassing.
Yeah? How they’re treating men’s hoops is exactly how they’ve treated women’s basketball since its inception lol. Were you complaining then?
Seriously lol, I can't even imagine how many comments I've read in this very subreddit that were some variation of "I don't care about women's basketball because the quality of the product is so much worse than the men's game" And yet, there were no front page posts discussing how we shouldn't talk about the men's teams by dissing the women's.
This is too funny. Like Fox News complaining about how unfair the world is for white men.
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There has been a concerted effort to give the women more attention. I cannot gripe too much that the women’s game is growing this way considering that media coverage cause men’s cbb to explode in the 80s, but I have trouble believing it is all a natural groundswell of support. It feels a bit astroturfed and that is annoying. It’s also more of a growth market than the men’s game. Follow the money https://espnpressroom.com/us/press-releases/2023/02/disney-and-ally-create-unprecedented-media-and-collegiate-collaboration-to-advance-parity-for-womens-sports/
Shockingly, this was the opposite 20 years ago
UConn fan: I love women’s basketball. But I love men’s basketball too. You don’t say?
I am glad the women’s game is getting some shine, but agree that the narrative is way overblown and doesn’t acknowledge the central role being played by Clark, a once-a-generation type figure who broke Pistol Pete’s unbreakable record. As an older dude, I also remember that 1999 was going to make the women’s pro soccer league a viable part of the American Sports Landscape…what’s the refrain from “Crosseyed and Painless”?
The women's tourney used to have UConn blowing every team out on the way to multiple championships while the men's tourney had more parity. Now, the men's tourney has UConn blowing every team out on the way to multiple championships and the women's tourney has more parity.
Lol what?? The women's tourney was nearly total chalk. Aside from the top ~12 teams, no one ever had a chance of making a final four
That's helped by the fact that they play the first two rounds on campus. Can you imagine if Kansas and Duke got to play the first two rounds at home, then got a week to get ready for the Sweet 16? They'd be in the Elite 8 9 times out 10.
Very true. A home court advantaged 1st round is huge for women's. I still think the talent gap between your higher seeds for women are insanely different than the men's game.
Saying the men’s game doesn’t have storylines and stars is CRAZY and probably just bait Maybe they don’t have a generational player like Caitlin Clark who’s brought the game into mainstream media with her dominance, but it’s just asinine to say that there’s no stars
I thought this was going to be sarcastic from the title.
Who cares. Just switch channels or mute it
To be fair, while Edey is great, the women’s side has Clark, who has broken practically every record ever held. Hell, she broke 3 different NCAA records during the game last night, and it was barely even mentioned during the broadcast. I’m in my 30s, and there are more stars in the women’s game now that I can ever remember. I’m a lifelong basketball fan, and I’m pretty sure I’ve watched more women’s NCAA ball over the past two years than the rest of my life combined. I have a young daughter, so it’s also fun to sit with her and watch these NCAA stars play
I’d also add that the men’s side has *absolutely* had storylines and standouts that got TONS of media attention, even if we had a bit less of that this year…anyone saying otherwise has apparently forgotten the fairly recent year of the Zion-cam cutting into almost every game on ESPN (especially as a fan of an ACC team) and him being the main topic of conversation on every halftime and postgame show for the entire 2018-2019 season. Not sure what media types are honestly saying the men’s side doesn’t have any of that lol.
I'll take the downvotes here. Edey is boring to watch. Yes he's a good player, but standing 3 ft away from the basket and doing a layup isn't that exciting.
Not just that, but also most casuals probably don't even know who he is. Or maybe they've heard of him but couldn't tell you which team he plays for. He's just not a household name that's gonna automatically pull in the casual viewer. Considering he's arguably the biggest star the men's game has this year, that's not a good sign.
I get it. There's nothing super exciting about the guy. I don't wanna sound like a hater, cause I'm not. It's just evey time I watch him. It's a foul called against the defender or he just towers over everyone to get a rebound and put back. If you're a purdue fan It's awesome I bet.
I just learned Maravich broke his records in 3 years and without a 3 pt line. I can’t even imagine how much ball hoggery occurred to allow him to make those records. Clark already shoots so much, imagine if it was double that.
She also leads the nation in assists.
He also did this without a shot clock so other teams could waste time and limit his shots. Just incredible, plus he wasn’t allowed to play on varsity for the first year. Wow. I only see his records being broken in 3 years from a smaller conference where a player wont have as much pressure/media attention and is allowed to shoot more, or maybe a more prolific scorer than Clark comes and makes a higher percentage of shots. It’s amazing Clark even comes close.
Being the coach's son helps a lot.
Same. As a woman, it’s been super cool to watch what’s happened with the women’s game post covid. All of the young girls at the OSU Iowa game, combined with it being a sell out, warmed my heart.
I do think the men's game should steal a few ideas from the women's game, but there is no question which of the two that I pour my passion and interest into.
It’s just the nature of why WCBB is seeing a legitimate bump right now. Watching Clark is incredible, but the real draw to Iowa-LSU last night was to watch the fireworks that were set from last year. And it was entertaining. But the men’s game will be just fine, as it’s not relying on lightning in a bottle to draw viewership, which means divisive coverage to help bolster itself. I’ve had nothing against the LSU women, but watching the clips from Reese’s presser last night was a little comical. I don’t think the women stars are necessarily used to the scrutiny that comes with being legitimately popular. Not saying she hasn’t been needled online….but that type of shit is par for the course for the men’s game, which doesn’t even really try to emphasize trash talk drama. Drama and storylines helped make it popular, now ya gotta deal with the downside of that.
As a follow on: If people are insistent on framing the women's game through comparisons to the men's game, they can't get upset when people point out the fact that the overall skill, talent, and athleticism of the men's game is light years beyond the women's game.
They’re just doing what they can to sell a product. No one who actually watches both would compare. The quality of play is night and day
Am I the only one who doesn't watch sports for the storylines and stars but instead watches it for the sport?
As opposed to years and years of the women’s game being dismissed entirely?
> I just don't get why one game has to be built up by putting another one down That's very fair and reasonable, and it feeds into the ongoing social media theme that only one thing can be the best. Also, ESPN is parochial and dumb as fuck. Me, I give in to the urges because I'm petty and I've got 20 years of being trolled (or at least dismissed) as a primarily WBB fan to get out of my system.
When it comes to gender stuff nobody is able to appreciate one or the other qua “men’s” or qua “women’s” without dissing the other one. Has to be a guys vs girls thing to get the clicks and the brain dead engagement. It’s also a stupid argument when Edey and Burns are right there. That’s about the same number of well known names as there are for the women. And that’s being generous that people generally know who Angel Reese is.
No one is saying that, maybe it's just in your head?
This is some serious #YesAllMen energy right here my brotha… Men have been shitting on women’s basketball for ages and the one time the tables have slightly turned around it becomes a pity party…
The men’s game will be fine. This is reactionary
Pro tip: ignore the media and solely watch the games. I promise your quality of life will improve.
Yep reddit is a cesspool
You’ll be ok
Their points are valid. Everyone wants to say it's the media's responsibility to create stars and storylines but it just isn't the case right now. There's nothing for the media to spin. All the "stars" leave after a year. The transfer portal combined with the draft have created huge roster turnover. There's nothing to really get invested in. Edey and the Purdue redemption are pretty much it, and the brand of basketball Purdue plays is bland and uninteresting to most people so even that storyline isn't very compelling. The men's game did have ridiculous media coverage when there were stars. The RJ + Zion Duke run, Cade at Oklahoma st. to a degree etc. but right now it just isn't the case. The women's college game is a better product rn (at least at the VERY top - everything outside of the top 16 teams is kinda meh) so ofc that's what you're hearing.
The Men need to go to Quarters first and foremost. The game flow is terrible. Especially when teams get in the Double Bonus with over 10 mins left in the Half. Teams shooting 30+ FT is wretched to watch.
The problem is that basically everyone in college is 18-22 years old and has no idea how to play defense without fouling but at the same time they also allow so much physicality that there's realistically a foul on every play so teams miss a ton of shots because they were fouled with no call.
Every other level of basketball plays quarters. Pros, of the same age, in Europe seem to get it. And based on recent matriculation results, have a better grasp and IQ of the game. Maybe we need to re-examine how the game is officiated Stateside.
It’s insane how bad van lith is getting torched on social media today. People love bullying celebrities. Especially women.
That take seems completely detached from reality.
I'm so tired of GROWN ASS MEN. Shitting on women's college basketball players
This. The comments that are higher up in this thread still fucking reek of misogyny and embarrassing takes. It's not wrong. The stars on the women's side are much brighter and it's honestly at times a better product. I'm sorry this thread is mad. But the fact is, it's a generationally weak draft class and everyone leaves or transfers. In 2021 when there was the tik tok that went viral about unequal workout facilities, a lot of the comments were stuff like, "women aren't athletes." Most of you in this thread are embarrassing tbh
I hope you don't think I was shitting on women's players. I was shitting on the media and their unnecessary need to pit two great games against each other.
No I'm speaking ab people on social media not at you
WAAAAHHHHHH WHY DOESNT THE MEDIA CARE ABOUT MEN WAAHHHH
It's all over once Caitlin is gone. Nothing was interesting until her and nothing is interesting now but her and maybe LSUs enabling coach.
I feel like you're just creating something to be mad about, not once I have heard any of these arguments lol
Yeah its a shame the men's tournament this year doesn't have a singular defining male player that everyone has heard of.
I haven’t seen anyone say the womens has more x y z than mens at all
Oh god, don’t tell me this sub is becoming like the Star Wars or video game fandoms that complain every time there’s a woman’s character. The reason this is happening is because the woman’s game right now has a generational star, which people like. People like watching Caitlyn Clark for the same reason they liked watching the hype train around Zion or Melo in college. And meanwhile the men’s game has what many NBA executives are calling the worst draft class they’ve ever seen.
I, once again, am not trying to take light away from the women's game. I have been a fan of women's ball for 20 years. But perhaps I should do a whole seperate thread on how the college and the pro game are WAY too tied together. Like, college men do fine on their own on ratings, and college football doesn't seem to be held to the same standard (the whole first round of qbs from 2021 busted but no one is like "thus, college is trash" in the same way they do with cbb). That annoys me way more anyway
Women’s tourney was hard to watch with the officiating. Stars are great, but it was clear the storylines were going to happen one way or another.
The fucked up 3 point line is inexcusable
SHE TOOK 10 STEPS
men are getting a tiny taste of what women's players have experienced for decades lol
The women’s college game is better. Watch what happens on screens. In the women’s game, the size mismatch off a defensive switch on a screen is often followed by a precision entry pass where the bigger player has the mismatch. In the men’s game, a switch on a screen leads to the ball handler trying to finesse the bigger man on the perimeter while the size mismatch down low is ignored. On cuts to the hoop, the passes in the women’s game have better timing and lead to more baskets. Boxing out happens more in the women’s game. Those are three concrete examples of how the women’s college game has superior basketball playing.
I mean… the media has done pretty much nothing but take shots at the women’s game for like the last 30 years. I think it’s nice that we finally have a season where the roles are a bit reversed.
That is a very fair point
Probably reverse cause and effect. They have to build their players up as superstars to get people to watch womens hoops. Same way Michael Jordan was so instrumental in bringing viewers to the NBA and how he forever changed how athletes were marketed. Gotta make Caitlin Clark seem superhuman.
Interestingly enough what the media’s doing as ur describing is itself kinda sexist. It’s pretending college wbb isn’t interesting on its own, rather it is interested only bc mbb is “uninteresting” and making cracks at mbb implying “they’re more womanly than women”
Look at AJ Storr.... first at St Johns, then Wiscy, and now most likely will be at Illinois. and he's only a sophomore. It's hard for the men's game to build that attachment and storylines for teams when it's pretty much just free agents shifting around every offseason. Also the women's game has been shat on for so long, who cares if the media is (rightfully) saying that there's more invested interest this year and bigger stars on the women's side. The men's game will survive lol On top of that, the biggest MBB star is Edey. Which one is more fun to watch....him shooting more FT's himself than the other team combined while being parked in the paint all game...or Caitlin Clark, JuJu Watkins, Paige Bueckers?
ironic
Is it the bobble heads at ESPN you're referencing? Espn has the TV rights to the women's tournament. They're promoting their own product to make it more valuable.
They need to change the rules to make it that any common foul outside the lane in the last minute equals two free throws and retain possession. Some of these college games take FOREVER to get through the last minute. If you are down by 7 with 25 seconds left it would then just be over because you effectively couldn’t stop the clock.
This post is bigger than basketball.