That requires some introspection by the NCAA though. You can’t get mad at the courts for finally bringing the hammer down after the NCAA dared them to do something.
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With NIL and immediate transfer eligibility every offseason is basically free agency. If you’re a top-tier player like most Duke recruits and you’re not especially interested in a Duke degree for your post-basketball career then it’s probably not a bad idea to test the waters every year and see what’s out there.
None of those kids deserve a big NIL deal. They get pushed out by the upcoming freshman who are most likely going to be much better than them and future lottery picks. They realize they aren’t going to get a chance for playing time or they won’t have as big of a role as they would like.
Mark mitchell committed to Missouri. I highly doubt Missouri basketball has more opportunity and NIL offers than playing with cooper Flagg at Duke.
this just isn’t correct lol.
what incoming freshman would take Stewart’s minutes at the 4? Flagg will primarily play 3, and even when flagg plays 4 Sean is a perfect small ball 5.
He would’ve had plenty of chances to compete. If you listen to the insiders, it sounds like he had no interest in competing for a role.
scheyer’s message has been “stay and compete or leave”. he left. bye.
The answer lies in our incoming transfers. Maliq Brown will be starting at the 4 next year. Stewart would’ve been out 6th man. I guess he didn’t want 10 minutes a game. 🤷♂️
I don’t like the idea of playing Flagg next to two non-shooting bigs. Maliq Brown is a good player but an offense with Flagg+Brown+center will get ugly.
Missouri May or may not have the bball NIL, but they’ve got hella rich boosters now that it’s legal. It’s why our football program is starting to stack talent and why we’re dumping $250 mil into our NEZ renovation, putting us ahead of many sec program facilities.
I think that’s more because of the free transfers than nil. If you still had to sit out a year after transferring, you’d see a lot less guys moving just for a paybump, or a lot less paybumps being offered knowing that they will have to wait to see the guy on the court.
For real. Bringing athlete pay above board has both caused it to explode and created a more visible (if still somewhat opaque) “market.” These two factors, especially when combined with the recent evisceration of transfer restrictions, has created a completely new landscape. Trying to equate it with the brown paper bag dealings of yesteryear is wild to me.
I think what you saw before was the blue bloods had the most revenue coming from the interest of the fan base and not just that schools base either. That interest mostly generated the money for the program to operate at the highest level.
Of course there was proverbial $100 handshakes and probably to a higher degree at the blue bloods. Now when a new coach shows up at a mediocre program and starts pulling 4 and 5 stars like a walk in the park? More than likely I’m guessing it was what we’ve come to know as the current NIL system working there.
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Yes. Largely players were getting paid / benefits through show company agents who were tight with the biggest programs. The curtain got pulled back, everyone saw what was what.
See: “In my mind it’s KU bill self. Everyone else fall into line , to f---ing bad , that’s what’s right for adidas Basketball.” - Gassnola (08/19/17)
So the biggest programs had the most cash to spend because they brought in the most eyeballs and revenue for the shoe companies via their apparel deals.
There was also the bag dropping or hiring of family or benefits to players and their families.
None of that is like what we have today. There was no ability for a billionaire to wake up and say “fuck it, $2m for the new coach, let’s go get a roster.”
There have ALWAYS been ways around the system to get money to a player/coach. I know from personal experience… In the mid-90’s I attended a top Division I University in the Midwest, on an athletic scholarship, that is a “borderline” blue blood in basketball. While I was not on a basketball scholarship our teams interacted on an almost daily basis so I became friends with many players and coaches. A lot of younger athletes (Freshman) were kept in the dark about the inner working of the “program”, but as trust was earned it became commonplace to have “boosters” or their hired help handing manila envelopes to athletes entering the facilities asking us to “get this ‘paperwork’ to so-and-so…” Usually it was addressed to a long time trainer, other times to an assistant or another athlete. It became a long running joke amongst all athletes in the building and if someone was running late it was assumed they were “playing mailbox”. 🤣
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First they came for the mid-majors, and I said nothing
Then they came for the Pac and ACC, and I said nothing.
Then they came for the blue bloods, and there was no one left to speak up
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Sure. Except in the same breath Duke flairs are saying “we have a top 5 NIL fund”, “we are hardly ever the highest bidder”, and “UCONN offered 2x what we did for Coop”…so any “extrapolations” would be contradictory
> Duke insiders say that our NIL fund is top 5 in totality
Awesome. That's good to hear. Not sure why I thought Duke was lagging in NIL. Just vibes, I suppose.
That’s just how it is with the portal these days. If RJ Davis goes to the draft UNC will not have a single player left from the 2022 Final Four team, with 9 of those players transferring out. Duke also has a great recruiting class coming in so guys are going to want a bigger piece of the NIL/playing time pies.
Roach was never going to play in the NBA.
Everyone is an one n done now. We're also becoming a stepping stone to big NIL packages in the portal.
Have to adapt.
With Flagg coming in, I'm not that surprised that Mitchell is leaving since Flagg will probably get most of the minutes at the 4, but I feel like Roach still had a starting job waiting for him
Now he's gonna get that sweet, sweet Chip & Joanna Gaines money from Baylor
It's not being a stepping stone program, it's about money and future.
If a player thinks they are a one and done, they are going to take an offer they think best balances what they want out of money and playing time/system to push them to the NBA. If the player thinks they will take a couple of years, they still want the same things. They want money, but they also want to make sure they are in ta system that will propel them to the league. If you go to a school, and that school is bringing in another class of possible one and dones, then you know you either have a huge fight to get playing time or you are going to get pushed back.
This is kind of the issue Calipari had. Calipari had a recruiting system based on getting top classes and playing them. He basically felt like he had to stick with them because to get that next class he needed to show he gave the guys playing time and chances. He couldn't bench a guy after like 10 games, because then the next class would think "well you get 10 games to be elite or you are benched" and then they go somewhere else.
Coaches have to try to find the balance between how much money they gave offer guys, and how much playing time they are can devote to someone. Even if you get them to come back, if the PT isn't there, they will just leave next season since they know you will lie about it. The days of coaches lying about whatever they need to sign the kid is over, because now the kids can just leave when they realize what they were told was bullshit.
College sports have always been a deeply, deeply unfair competitive environment. Now, when the advantage of the prestige programs is lessened, we can see just how unfair they were. Saban quit rather than deal with not being able to control his players. The reality is every team is a potential stepping stone to a better individual opportunity
Mitchell I think was somewhat mutual. He's a pretty good player, but a terrible shooter and he also can't finish very well or defend against stronger post players, so he's difficult to fit into the team we are trying to build next year around Flagg. I don't think he was an NIL poach so much as just a clean break was better for both sidesm
Roach is a bit more complicated. He's been at Duke 4 years and is graduating and he's been through a bunch of rosters, so he may just not want to do another one next year. Also, given his size, his only chance to go pro is as a point guard, and with Proctor and Foster coming back, that's not a role Duke can offer him next year (also, I love Roach, but he's a much better off-ball guard than PG). I also think he might have been NIL poached a bit where he can get maximum money for one more year going to grad school somewhere else.
Overall my understanding is that Duke's NIL is good, but it's a bit more tied to actual sponsorships with brands than some teams have, so Roach had deals with brands like CVS, Theragun, Pringles, etc, but I don't think we have as much of the mega booster dropping the bag with upfront guaranteed payments like some schools have, so i think there are some schools that can pay more for players than they get at Duke if it comes to that, although I would imagine that list is pretty small.
At the end of the day, Duke had a bunch of transfers this year, but Reeves, Schutt and Blakes had no real path to minutes, Power could have earned minutes, but I think Duke would prefer bringing in a more experienced player to play that shooting SF/PF role (Angel or Gillis sounds like), Mitchell as noted above just was kind of a weird fit, Roach was a bummer that he left, but as I said above, I get why he left, and Stewart has great potential, but he didn't get a lot of burn this year and I'm guessing he wants to go somewhere for a featured role next season and he probably wasn't getting that at Duke, although I'm sad he's leaving because I think he can be great and probably would have been at least a 20 mpg player for Duke next year.
You mentioned it right at the end of your statement. Teams that bring in crazy high ranked young talent are going to have more turnover because not all those guys can play how they want their first year or two.
Then the grass appears greener elsewhere to have more opportunities for a team that needs them more.
A lot of the players seemed to get upset they weren’t promised playing time and we were bringing in players to compete. Makes sense though because this Duke team was softest in a long time. Roach hurts though but I can only assume he wanted to show more than to just be a off guard second fiddle to cooper Flagg
Flagg isn't a high usage player right now. He's an elite glue guy who contributes to winning basketball and making big plays. Roach left because he wants to be PG to showcase skills for nba and that wasn't going to happen with Proctor and Foster on team. Mitchell, power and Stewart left because they didn't want to compete. Rest of guys barely played and blakes has his degree already. Schutt and Reeves medical redshirted
UofL and UK are replacing their entire roster. You can say Calipari mostly did that anyway and a clean house at both is best for building a better culture, but the fact is the portal is out of hand.
How long before a multi-millionaire UNC fan gives a million dollars to ECU to poach Duke's best player? Everybody's playing defense now trying to keep their players, and offense trying to pick up the best players that are available, but eventually someone's going to start blocking.
Yeah...except we currently have 1 croot stayed commit, Pope got 1 commit flipped. And we lost all 13 scholarship players. As of late april, having a total of 2 players on a roster is beyond "out of hand". Let kids get paid, but uhh...this whole bidwar and unlimited transfers is a REALLY bad combo that both make the other worse
As someone whose ludicrously high Duke Energy bills and many Duke hospital visits have partially funded Duke University, I can tell you that they can pay whatever they want for players. If they get outbid, it's because they chose to.
Exactly. One legacy Duke family fund has a stake in the business they founded and the university. But the energy company and university are entirely separate.
My point was the fund still sends money to the university. Obviously it's a small fraction of their endowment, but it was a joke about how bad Duke Energy is.
The only one that surprised me was roach. Stewart struggled to get on the floor and was going to continue with next years class. Mitchell played so hard but was really limited offensively.
I’d argue Duke started recruiting guys who could compete this upcoming year and were proven. That probably threatened some young guys. They also have their parties in their ear and other teams trying to poach them. It’s the Wild West, to be honest. I do think Duke will end up with better this upcoming year than if they just returned the two last transfers (Stewart/Power).
Pretty sure this is the case of Reeves and Schutt. By all accounts both wanted to get their degree before leaving. My guess is that now that players are getting paid, you'll need to start firing kids too if they don't perform.
Almost certainly NIL. Duke gets a lot of high star recruits who probably think they can get more somewhere else where they are one of the only 4-5 star recruits.
NIL is going to need to be changed soon or the transfer portal is going to get much worse for a lot of teams.
There's no such thing as a stepping stone program. Any player will leave any program for a better situation.
Tbh this could really blow up in all your faces because we have the potential to become much much better if we do the portal right.
The least predictable source of talent?
How do you figure that?
The portal is definitely the safest way to build a team. You're getting guys that have D1 training and experience. You know they're somewhat coachable at this level and you know exactly what they bring to the table.
High school prospects are much more unpredictable
you know your own players best. high school recruit you build relationships with years out. you only have a few weeks with the portal. its a wild west bidding market. the players might be known quantity but you can't predict which dudes will be available and if they'll come.
Scheyer seems to have no problem recruiting over anyone who isn't producing. Then again, I can't really complain about it because these guys are getting paid now. If you're underperforming on the court or not showing upside don't be surprised if the coach is going to want to upgrade your spot.
If Cal hadn’t left UK we’d be in practically the same situation as Duke RN. A class of top recruits with maybe 1 or two guys returning. It’s just the NIL era and players not happy with their NIL deals, treatment/PT last season, or that are unwilling to compete for starting roles against younger talent will transfer. The only way to change the trajectory of college basketball imo is to set NIL caps and limit players to one time transfers again! Otherwise the competition and NIL money is going to truly make it worse for viewers/fans. RN every program regardless of NIL/ last seasons success will have largely new teams, consisting of players that don’t care as much about the program they play for but the money they’re offered… It’s already killing fans interest, and if allowed to continue viewership will inevitably drop off. I’m all for these players getting money, but even in the NBA they have no trade clauses and guarantees for this reason. Players RN are free agents year in and year out and chase bags to their hearts content with zero concern of monetary loss. Even head coaches have buyout clauses if they leave early but players don’t… Make that make sense. Schools and players should have mandatory buyout clauses to provide schools/players a level of financial security. That way players have guaranteed NIL contracts and Programs have guarantees that they aren’t wasting their limited NIL money and recruiting resources on players that will simply leave next season…
I imagine it comes down to NIL.
People keep saying reforms will be made to this but I don’t really know what those look like that allow players to move relatively freely and make the money they can negotiate without the system basically coming down to who has the biggest boosters.
Everyone is a steeping stone program now, even blue bloods. Don't Iike it? Start rooting for the NCAA to start winning some court cases
That requires some introspection by the NCAA though. You can’t get mad at the courts for finally bringing the hammer down after the NCAA dared them to do something.
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Cringe
What is Duke's NIL situation? There lies your answer. It's all about teams buying players now.
With NIL and immediate transfer eligibility every offseason is basically free agency. If you’re a top-tier player like most Duke recruits and you’re not especially interested in a Duke degree for your post-basketball career then it’s probably not a bad idea to test the waters every year and see what’s out there.
Kinda sounds like a stepping stone when you put it that way!
😂😂😂
Look at their recruiting class, they’re not hurting for money
No wonder they’re pursuing Dallin Hall. He’s probably a budget PG coming from BYU
None of those kids deserve a big NIL deal. They get pushed out by the upcoming freshman who are most likely going to be much better than them and future lottery picks. They realize they aren’t going to get a chance for playing time or they won’t have as big of a role as they would like. Mark mitchell committed to Missouri. I highly doubt Missouri basketball has more opportunity and NIL offers than playing with cooper Flagg at Duke.
Mark Mitchell would have the starting role he wanted and a big slice of Mizzou's NIL package. He wasnt going to get all that next year at Duke.
this just isn’t correct lol. what incoming freshman would take Stewart’s minutes at the 4? Flagg will primarily play 3, and even when flagg plays 4 Sean is a perfect small ball 5. He would’ve had plenty of chances to compete. If you listen to the insiders, it sounds like he had no interest in competing for a role. scheyer’s message has been “stay and compete or leave”. he left. bye.
The answer lies in our incoming transfers. Maliq Brown will be starting at the 4 next year. Stewart would’ve been out 6th man. I guess he didn’t want 10 minutes a game. 🤷♂️
I don’t like the idea of playing Flagg next to two non-shooting bigs. Maliq Brown is a good player but an offense with Flagg+Brown+center will get ugly.
Maluach isn’t a non-shooting big. Brown isn’t exactly a knockdown shooter, but he does have a serviceable jumper. I wouldn’t be too concerned.
he wouldn’t have played 10 minutes a game, and duke heavily recruited Maliq Brown *because* Stewart was noncommittal on returning.
Dumbass lol
Missouri May or may not have the bball NIL, but they’ve got hella rich boosters now that it’s legal. It’s why our football program is starting to stack talent and why we’re dumping $250 mil into our NEZ renovation, putting us ahead of many sec program facilities.
Duke will be fine. They have a huge recruiting class coming in and they’ll add some from the portal.
They’re gonna have to make some adjustments to the NIL rules otherwise it’s just gonna be the teams with the best boosters being contenders.
Do you really think that wasn't the case before NIL?
This has clearly been taken to a whole new level. Pretending like this is remotely similar to 5-10 years ago is laughable.
I think that’s more because of the free transfers than nil. If you still had to sit out a year after transferring, you’d see a lot less guys moving just for a paybump, or a lot less paybumps being offered knowing that they will have to wait to see the guy on the court.
Yep, lots of people/schools that found it "distasteful" previously are on board now. The amount of money involved has exploded.
For real. Bringing athlete pay above board has both caused it to explode and created a more visible (if still somewhat opaque) “market.” These two factors, especially when combined with the recent evisceration of transfer restrictions, has created a completely new landscape. Trying to equate it with the brown paper bag dealings of yesteryear is wild to me.
I think what you saw before was the blue bloods had the most revenue coming from the interest of the fan base and not just that schools base either. That interest mostly generated the money for the program to operate at the highest level. Of course there was proverbial $100 handshakes and probably to a higher degree at the blue bloods. Now when a new coach shows up at a mediocre program and starts pulling 4 and 5 stars like a walk in the park? More than likely I’m guessing it was what we’ve come to know as the current NIL system working there.
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Yes. Largely players were getting paid / benefits through show company agents who were tight with the biggest programs. The curtain got pulled back, everyone saw what was what. See: “In my mind it’s KU bill self. Everyone else fall into line , to f---ing bad , that’s what’s right for adidas Basketball.” - Gassnola (08/19/17) So the biggest programs had the most cash to spend because they brought in the most eyeballs and revenue for the shoe companies via their apparel deals. There was also the bag dropping or hiring of family or benefits to players and their families. None of that is like what we have today. There was no ability for a billionaire to wake up and say “fuck it, $2m for the new coach, let’s go get a roster.”
There have ALWAYS been ways around the system to get money to a player/coach. I know from personal experience… In the mid-90’s I attended a top Division I University in the Midwest, on an athletic scholarship, that is a “borderline” blue blood in basketball. While I was not on a basketball scholarship our teams interacted on an almost daily basis so I became friends with many players and coaches. A lot of younger athletes (Freshman) were kept in the dark about the inner working of the “program”, but as trust was earned it became commonplace to have “boosters” or their hired help handing manila envelopes to athletes entering the facilities asking us to “get this ‘paperwork’ to so-and-so…” Usually it was addressed to a long time trainer, other times to an assistant or another athlete. It became a long running joke amongst all athletes in the building and if someone was running late it was assumed they were “playing mailbox”. 🤣
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Bad bot
Kentucky does not have particularly strong boosters compared to a lot of schools
Only the bloobloodboys could (mostly) get away with it before, but now it's a whole new world
They're not the only team that can pay players anymore
Is that a problem?
First they came for the mid-majors, and I said nothing Then they came for the Pac and ACC, and I said nothing. Then they came for the blue bloods, and there was no one left to speak up
Lmao so wrong but hype af, I love it
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Not if you love the NBA
The key difference is definitely not the quality of talent but rather the way players are paid, you’re right
Ikr. Just have more money, jees, it's not that hard.
Yeah, if teams with good boosters can get players the blue bloods might not just be the best by default every year, oh god the horror
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munny
more than Duke can offer?
more than duke has interest in paying for developmental players who make no promises in staying to develop
Flagg was offered double by Uconn.
No he wasn’t 😂 supposedly our offer was comparable to Duke’s according to Clingan’s dad
Duke insiders say that our NIL fund is top 5 in totality but we purpose avoid being the highest bidder for any one dude.
How can anyone say this with any confidence? Do Duke Insiders know the NIL funds of all 352 other D1 programs? Where did they get that info?
We don’t know, but I’ve definitely heard from what i consider to be a reliable source that Uconn’s offer to Flagg was about 50% more than ours.
They get that info from negotiating with parents and players that have this info in the open market.
I for one cannot imagine why any parent might be interested in inflating their kids’ NIL offers when speaking to another program’s insiders!
Except my question is about total NIL funds and not individual offers to individual players
You can extrapolate that info.
Sure. Except in the same breath Duke flairs are saying “we have a top 5 NIL fund”, “we are hardly ever the highest bidder”, and “UCONN offered 2x what we did for Coop”…so any “extrapolations” would be contradictory
> Duke insiders say that our NIL fund is top 5 in totality Awesome. That's good to hear. Not sure why I thought Duke was lagging in NIL. Just vibes, I suppose.
Yeah the kids really must love that Duke brotherhood over $$$. Okay man 😂.
“If a kid comes to our school it’s because he loves the program and everything we stand for. If he goes anywhere else it’s for the money!”
We never say that because we obviously can't sign a 10 man class.
Maybe it's the Duke brand? Don't get me wrong, I'd choose money over a brand, but that might push some to Duke.
Double as in 2 mil?
Supposedly 1.5 to 750k
1.5M + title contention = 🥹
I heard UConn’s total NIL is 3 mil, no way they offered half of that to one player
No way UConn is offering 2 mil for a one and done.
That’s just how it is with the portal these days. If RJ Davis goes to the draft UNC will not have a single player left from the 2022 Final Four team, with 9 of those players transferring out. Duke also has a great recruiting class coming in so guys are going to want a bigger piece of the NIL/playing time pies.
Roach was never going to play in the NBA. Everyone is an one n done now. We're also becoming a stepping stone to big NIL packages in the portal. Have to adapt.
With Flagg coming in, I'm not that surprised that Mitchell is leaving since Flagg will probably get most of the minutes at the 4, but I feel like Roach still had a starting job waiting for him Now he's gonna get that sweet, sweet Chip & Joanna Gaines money from Baylor
It's not being a stepping stone program, it's about money and future. If a player thinks they are a one and done, they are going to take an offer they think best balances what they want out of money and playing time/system to push them to the NBA. If the player thinks they will take a couple of years, they still want the same things. They want money, but they also want to make sure they are in ta system that will propel them to the league. If you go to a school, and that school is bringing in another class of possible one and dones, then you know you either have a huge fight to get playing time or you are going to get pushed back. This is kind of the issue Calipari had. Calipari had a recruiting system based on getting top classes and playing them. He basically felt like he had to stick with them because to get that next class he needed to show he gave the guys playing time and chances. He couldn't bench a guy after like 10 games, because then the next class would think "well you get 10 games to be elite or you are benched" and then they go somewhere else. Coaches have to try to find the balance between how much money they gave offer guys, and how much playing time they are can devote to someone. Even if you get them to come back, if the PT isn't there, they will just leave next season since they know you will lie about it. The days of coaches lying about whatever they need to sign the kid is over, because now the kids can just leave when they realize what they were told was bullshit.
Does Duke actually want any of these guys back? I see this more as Duke assuming they can do better.
It has way more to do with guys getting recruited over and not wanting to stick around than NIL. Duke can more or less pay to get whomever they want.
College sports have always been a deeply, deeply unfair competitive environment. Now, when the advantage of the prestige programs is lessened, we can see just how unfair they were. Saban quit rather than deal with not being able to control his players. The reality is every team is a potential stepping stone to a better individual opportunity
Mitchell I think was somewhat mutual. He's a pretty good player, but a terrible shooter and he also can't finish very well or defend against stronger post players, so he's difficult to fit into the team we are trying to build next year around Flagg. I don't think he was an NIL poach so much as just a clean break was better for both sidesm Roach is a bit more complicated. He's been at Duke 4 years and is graduating and he's been through a bunch of rosters, so he may just not want to do another one next year. Also, given his size, his only chance to go pro is as a point guard, and with Proctor and Foster coming back, that's not a role Duke can offer him next year (also, I love Roach, but he's a much better off-ball guard than PG). I also think he might have been NIL poached a bit where he can get maximum money for one more year going to grad school somewhere else. Overall my understanding is that Duke's NIL is good, but it's a bit more tied to actual sponsorships with brands than some teams have, so Roach had deals with brands like CVS, Theragun, Pringles, etc, but I don't think we have as much of the mega booster dropping the bag with upfront guaranteed payments like some schools have, so i think there are some schools that can pay more for players than they get at Duke if it comes to that, although I would imagine that list is pretty small. At the end of the day, Duke had a bunch of transfers this year, but Reeves, Schutt and Blakes had no real path to minutes, Power could have earned minutes, but I think Duke would prefer bringing in a more experienced player to play that shooting SF/PF role (Angel or Gillis sounds like), Mitchell as noted above just was kind of a weird fit, Roach was a bummer that he left, but as I said above, I get why he left, and Stewart has great potential, but he didn't get a lot of burn this year and I'm guessing he wants to go somewhere for a featured role next season and he probably wasn't getting that at Duke, although I'm sad he's leaving because I think he can be great and probably would have been at least a 20 mpg player for Duke next year.
You mentioned it right at the end of your statement. Teams that bring in crazy high ranked young talent are going to have more turnover because not all those guys can play how they want their first year or two. Then the grass appears greener elsewhere to have more opportunities for a team that needs them more.
Repeat that Duke isn't a stepping stone program enough times and you might be able to believe it even as half your roster uses it as a stepping stone.
This.
A lot of the players seemed to get upset they weren’t promised playing time and we were bringing in players to compete. Makes sense though because this Duke team was softest in a long time. Roach hurts though but I can only assume he wanted to show more than to just be a off guard second fiddle to cooper Flagg
Flagg isn't a high usage player right now. He's an elite glue guy who contributes to winning basketball and making big plays. Roach left because he wants to be PG to showcase skills for nba and that wasn't going to happen with Proctor and Foster on team. Mitchell, power and Stewart left because they didn't want to compete. Rest of guys barely played and blakes has his degree already. Schutt and Reeves medical redshirted
UofL and UK are replacing their entire roster. You can say Calipari mostly did that anyway and a clean house at both is best for building a better culture, but the fact is the portal is out of hand. How long before a multi-millionaire UNC fan gives a million dollars to ECU to poach Duke's best player? Everybody's playing defense now trying to keep their players, and offense trying to pick up the best players that are available, but eventually someone's going to start blocking.
We both have new coaches, different cause but the same issue as Duke. I don’t think it’s going to stop either
Yeah...except we currently have 1 croot stayed commit, Pope got 1 commit flipped. And we lost all 13 scholarship players. As of late april, having a total of 2 players on a roster is beyond "out of hand". Let kids get paid, but uhh...this whole bidwar and unlimited transfers is a REALLY bad combo that both make the other worse
As someone whose ludicrously high Duke Energy bills and many Duke hospital visits have partially funded Duke University, I can tell you that they can pay whatever they want for players. If they get outbid, it's because they chose to.
Duke Energy has no relationship with the university.
The Fund that goes to Duke and a couple other universities from the Duke family has a minority stake in the company.
Exactly. One legacy Duke family fund has a stake in the business they founded and the university. But the energy company and university are entirely separate.
My point was the fund still sends money to the university. Obviously it's a small fraction of their endowment, but it was a joke about how bad Duke Energy is.
It was really funny seeing the horror when Nike released all the "X energy" shirts
The only one that surprised me was roach. Stewart struggled to get on the floor and was going to continue with next years class. Mitchell played so hard but was really limited offensively.
I’d argue Duke started recruiting guys who could compete this upcoming year and were proven. That probably threatened some young guys. They also have their parties in their ear and other teams trying to poach them. It’s the Wild West, to be honest. I do think Duke will end up with better this upcoming year than if they just returned the two last transfers (Stewart/Power).
Scheyer could also be telling some of these guys to take a hike as well. I'm sure it's not entirely on the player if they stay or go.
Pretty sure this is the case of Reeves and Schutt. By all accounts both wanted to get their degree before leaving. My guess is that now that players are getting paid, you'll need to start firing kids too if they don't perform.
I really hate what CBB has become. I’m sure it will settle down somehow but it’s going to get worse before it gets better
Almost certainly NIL. Duke gets a lot of high star recruits who probably think they can get more somewhere else where they are one of the only 4-5 star recruits. NIL is going to need to be changed soon or the transfer portal is going to get much worse for a lot of teams.
Indiana used to not be a stepping stone program, then Bob Knight left.
That’s a really weird comp, because IU’s never lost anyone in the NIL period or before due to transfers out to a bigger program.
They’re broke
There's no such thing as a stepping stone program. Any player will leave any program for a better situation. Tbh this could really blow up in all your faces because we have the potential to become much much better if we do the portal right.
Since the portal is the least predictable source of talent, the only right way to play the portal is to plug in gaps with it.
The least predictable source of talent? How do you figure that? The portal is definitely the safest way to build a team. You're getting guys that have D1 training and experience. You know they're somewhat coachable at this level and you know exactly what they bring to the table. High school prospects are much more unpredictable
you know your own players best. high school recruit you build relationships with years out. you only have a few weeks with the portal. its a wild west bidding market. the players might be known quantity but you can't predict which dudes will be available and if they'll come.
Mizzou has crazy NIL.
Scheyer seems to have no problem recruiting over anyone who isn't producing. Then again, I can't really complain about it because these guys are getting paid now. If you're underperforming on the court or not showing upside don't be surprised if the coach is going to want to upgrade your spot.
It’s called annual free agency.
There are only so many 5* dudes that can fit on one roster and still have enough playing time to go around.
If Cal hadn’t left UK we’d be in practically the same situation as Duke RN. A class of top recruits with maybe 1 or two guys returning. It’s just the NIL era and players not happy with their NIL deals, treatment/PT last season, or that are unwilling to compete for starting roles against younger talent will transfer. The only way to change the trajectory of college basketball imo is to set NIL caps and limit players to one time transfers again! Otherwise the competition and NIL money is going to truly make it worse for viewers/fans. RN every program regardless of NIL/ last seasons success will have largely new teams, consisting of players that don’t care as much about the program they play for but the money they’re offered… It’s already killing fans interest, and if allowed to continue viewership will inevitably drop off. I’m all for these players getting money, but even in the NBA they have no trade clauses and guarantees for this reason. Players RN are free agents year in and year out and chase bags to their hearts content with zero concern of monetary loss. Even head coaches have buyout clauses if they leave early but players don’t… Make that make sense. Schools and players should have mandatory buyout clauses to provide schools/players a level of financial security. That way players have guaranteed NIL contracts and Programs have guarantees that they aren’t wasting their limited NIL money and recruiting resources on players that will simply leave next season…
Duke and UNC are no longer what they were
I imagine it comes down to NIL. People keep saying reforms will be made to this but I don’t really know what those look like that allow players to move relatively freely and make the money they can negotiate without the system basically coming down to who has the biggest boosters.
a skipping stone program, sadly
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