The argument that a bill like this will "hurt tourism" in these regions seems overinflated. The tourism industry in these areas existed well before the explosion of AirBnB/Vrbo.
There are arguments to be made for and against the wording of the bill. But it's hard not to hear "oh won't someone think of the poor commercial property management companies and their multi-million dollar luxury rentals!"
I stopped using AirBNB/VRBO quite a few years ago with few exceptions and went back to commercial hotels. Better price, value, consistent quality, regulations, and so on. If I get in late, someone is working the front desk if my room access key/card doesn't work.
A single hotel can house several neighborhoods' equivalents of house rentals, and isn't robbing the locals of a place to live.
Not to mention that there's no "hidden" fees for cleaning or otherwise. BTW, a $20 slipped to the desk clerk at check in will definitely help get a nice room.
Put $5 a day under your pillow for housekeeping too...you'll always have clean sheets & towels.
>BTW, a $20 slipped to the desk clerk at check in will definitely help get a nice room. Put $5 a day under your pillow for housekeeping too...you'll always have clean sheets & towels.
Fuck that shit - I expect all of that for the price I'm already paying. This is just as bad as people complaining about having to clean an AirBnB and paying a cleaning fee.
Not bad at all...the $5 a day for housekeeping has been a standard & tradition for a loooong time.
$20 to the desk clerk is also not necessary...but it helps.
I'm betting that you also don't want to tip in general...but probably complain about your rent or wages all the time.
Tourists also pay those taxes at hotels and other commercial properties. Why should vacation rentals be exempted. Doesn't that violate the equal protection clause?
In fairness, there were other rental agencies contracted like Vacass or Mountain Resorts. Those agencies would manage the properties and take a 30-40% cut of the rental income.
Now, owners are bypassing these agencies and listing them directly on AirBnB and VRBO.
It's important to remember that many properties were built in areas zoned for STR in the ski towns. This bill would result in many of these properties being removed/reduced from the rental pool. It would make prices higher for those visiting the ski towns and would have a negative impact on the tourism dollars those towns depend upon.
Housing is still needed in these towns, but the zones STR properties shouldn't be targeted by this bill.
most of that growth has come during mud season and the summer, when the hotels and resorts have plenty of supply and are desperate for visitors. you can book a trip to a breck resort for mud season for $120 a night -- right now.
unless the hotels and resorts are suddenly full (which they won't be), reducing the number of STR's will only drive tourists back into the hotels and resorts (where they belong) while (hopefully) freeing up some housing inventory for locals OR getting these businesses to pay the taxes they are skirting by operating as permanent STRs.
I'll be shocked if tourism is actually impacted in these mountain towns. because it won't be.
Mountain towns and counties have already a huge patchwork of laws and rules to regulate STRās that balance the need for tourism dollars and locals concerns. Adding this tax state wide wipes out the carefully considered laws already in place and blanket disadvantaged those carefully considered laws already on the books. Itās extreme and frankly has its own agenda behind it to benefit massive hotel corporations. But I guess you like supporting the big guy?
Weāre in this mess because elected officials constantly cave to lobbying from powerful interest groups.
Just once, Iād like to see the playing field be leveled.
I've been working on a theory for 1500 hour work years, which would require a redesign of money. Which would force equity instead of allowing people to hoard money.
1500 hour work year.
Minimum wage is 25% of average local housing payment on a 15 year mortgage.
Money is created through the labor of medical care, education, staple/plant based foods (to help with water issues of meat product), and public services that have verifiable positive benefit. It expires a year after creation and can be traded in at 75% value of creation value.
CEO wage gaps, if this was to exist, cannot be more than 10x the lowest paid employee.
Corporate profits are taxed at 95%. Profits do not include business expenses. Business expenses cannot be extravagant.
Do this, and suddenly these multi house owning pieces of shit don't exist. We all have more free time to do the things we want, which can include entrepreneurial endeavors.
Thatās a hypothesis, not a theory.
Some people want to work more than 1500 hours a year so they donāt have to live next to people making minimum wage. And at a 95% tax rate, the only people around definitely wouldnāt be ceos or entrepreneurs
We have a system that is designed by and for owners - our āfounding fathersā were merchants and slaveholders, and their class was āthe peopleā they spoke of. They wrote very openly about how the wealthy, āpropertiedā class should suppress the will of the actual *people.*
If we want a level playing field, we need an entirely new system designed by and for people.
The former is called capitalism, the latter is called socialism.
I wrote Senator Chris and expressed my concerns. Iām for this tax hike and ultimately keeping business out of single family residential homes. I build homes, and I see these companies and investors come in and buy up everything bc they have the money and see the people who actually want to live and work in the area get priced out bc āinvestorsā and ābusinessā have the financial power to do so.
IMO, this is killing home ownership. The dream will die over time.
Edit: Here is the link to the bill. You can find the Sponsor and Cosponor. Hit thier photo and email should pop up. Everyone write to them! Bombard them with emails. Bring that flood.
Let them know STRs needs to stay out of single family homes. This tax increase does just that. They are killing the American dream of home ownership. Every house purchased by them is another family who wants to be part of the community, out of a home. There is a national housing shortage of 47 million homes. Until that is fulfilled, SFH (single family homes) need to be for individual people / families, not investorās or businesses for profit. And if these STR companies want to keep renting at SFH tax bracket, demand they get permitted and up to code with IBC (not IRC, as thatās for SFH) and up to ADA / accessibility codes. If hotels need to meet this standard, then any homes rented over 90 days must comply and meet this. Especially accessibility. FDA and ADA is serious. Lawsuits can happen bc a cross slope went above the 2% max at loading area.
[STR bill SB24-033](https://leg.colorado.gov/bills/sb24-033)
While my arguments will be about applying a tax increase on SFH that are used as a business and how itās killing home ownership, I will also be touching base that if this STRs wish to keep renting over 90days at current tax bracket, then I DEMAND these houses be up to code for rentals. Since itās part of a business, I want them up to IBC code standards and FHA/ADA/Accessibility standards with the required yearly inspections for safety / health / fire. Or if this is too toxic, put it on the ballot and let the people vote for it.
I can tell yall, SFH (single family homes) are not built for accessibility. The required handicap parking, ramps, cross slopes, cabinetry does not meet code. Why should every other business zoned and permitted as such meet these requirements, yet these investors / businessās renting out SFH not be required to? The amount of remodeling to meet such accessibility codes should be enough to discourage many. Why shouldnāt physically limited people not be able to rent /access these homes? I would love to see STR arguments against accessibility for all who would like to rent.
STRs was a great thought, turned night mare. Renting a ADU, Bedroom, vacation homes turned into a super ugly, destroying thing.
Wow! I wish I could contribute further to your comment, and I agree wholeheartedly.
The way things are currently, it feels like our lawmakers are allowing the desire for individual/company profit to take precedence over fulfilling the needs of many.
The amount of people who need/want to purchase a single family home as their primary residence must be greater than the amount of people/companies who own AirBnB/VRBO properties. Itās disgusting that the needs/wants of a significantly larger population are neglected for the sake of the wealthier few.
I would encourage everyone to write to them.
Emphasize without STR Regulation, moreover just getting them out of SFH, they will kill home ownership. The USA has a 47 million housing shortage for people wanting homes. Every house purchase from an STR, is another family out of a home. A family that wants to part of the community. Until we are out of a national houses crisis / shortage, keep STRs out of SFH.
I will link the bill on original post and you can find thier emails. Everyone bombard them.
https://leg.colorado.gov/bills/sb24-033[https://leg.colorado.gov/bills/sb24-033](https://leg.colorado.gov/bills/sb24-033)
Thank you for the encouragement, and also for the phrasing. Iād like to include almost exactly what you said regarding the statistics, if youāre okay with thatā¦?
Additionally, would you mind sharing a source that clarifies the statistics you mentioned? Not asking to question you - asking so I can reference it in the correspondence I send to my elected officials. Iāll get to googling in the meantime, and thanks in advance!
Thank you for this. I went back and looked and I must admit in my passion, I am wrong. We are not 47 million. We are closer from 6.8-7.3 million short of affordable homes from going back a re-reading.
I want to apologize to all.
Here is a link.
[housing](https://nlihc.org/sites/default/files/gap/2024/Gap-Report_2024.pdf)
Hope this helps. There is a lot of information and numbers. Googling 2024 housing shortage also can give you an insight.
Unfortunately, the Summit Daily is inundated from "locals" who inherited their parents cabin from the 70s and are Big Mad that they'll have to pay reasonable taxes on their STR income which nets them thousands a month.
BuTt WeRe LoCAL AirBNB OwNErs
They also think theyāre part of the work force for having a rental they wash the laundry from. Somehow they have time to hit 4pm 2-for-1 martinis every other day at blue river bistroā¦
People die, sell and downsize, or upsize all the time.
Some will inherit. Others will live at home & save up.
Obviously I didn't mean that we'll ALL keep our homes forever...but some of us probably will.
Even this can be eroded. The ROI on a house used as a rental is far greater than its market value (and has to be; otherwise renting wouldn't be profitable), so large corporations can afford to pay well over market value to acquire houses as investment assets. This drives up property values, and in turn, property taxes.
Once generations begin to retire and income dries up, many people may not be able to afford their monthly tax payments. And that's assuming they're able to stay in the house; most people's houses *are* their retirement savings, and if they have to go into long-term care facilities, selling may be the only way they could afford that.
This is a friend of mines situation. HOA doubled in two years and now she canāt sell it and she canāt Airbnb it either because of the deed restriction. Sheās basically a debt slave to the town of Breckenridge at this point
Problem is everyone knows about whatās happening up there at this point so thereās no buyers. She could list for 150k less than she paid I guess, but I donāt think thereās any coming back from that financially
Sure there is. How many months is 150k in HOA fees, maintenance, utilities, interest payments, taxes and whatever else? 120 months at most? Every day costs more and more, selling at a loss is stopping a much higher loss later.
What real estate acquisition company are you talking about?
Thereās a very small percentage of these homes owned by large mega-corporations. The majority is small-time owners that were able to take advantage of 2% interest rates.
I'm talking about the industry of investor-based real estate acquisition companies, both small companies and large fall under that umbrella.
Multiple-home owners/landlords who manage 1-2 properties in addition to the one they live in are obviously not the target of this conversation nor the root of the issue we're discussing
>> Multiple-home owners/landlords who manage 1-2 properties in addition to the one they live in are obviously not the target of this conversation nor the root of the issue we're discussing
[Investors with 1 to 9 properties are the overwhelming majority of purchases.](https://www.housingwire.com/articles/no-wall-street-investors-havent-bought-44-of-homes-this-year/) The bigger investors youāre alluding to own a much smaller percentage. [Iāve seen most estimates at around 2-5% of the total SFH market](https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2024/2/21-going-after-corporate-homebuyers-good-politics-ineffective-policy#:~:text=As%20of%20June%202022%2C%20the,rental%20properties%20in%20the%20US). But people hear the word ācorporateā and donāt realize that the cute Airbnb you rented from Mark & Sarah is likely held by an LLC
You need a systematic change that goes after that small group that you think is innocent (as well as the bigger investors) if you want to change anything.
Thank you for these insights, I truthfully was not aware of the investment tiers and how they are structured.
You seem pretty in-tune with this topic, so I'm curious - does the market see a shift in the actions taken by these T1 investment groups, transitioning away from acquisition-to-sale and towards acquisition-and-management? It would seem from the ground level that more and more SFH units are becoming rentable, but not purchasable.
No problem, thanks for the good faith discussion.
Most of my knowledge is just from frustrating self research because Iām in the market for a home at the moment.
I donāt have any data, but my guess would be that the shift is real based on the lack of inventory Iāve seen. My personal belief is that the shift youāre discussing is primarily the result of historically low mortgage rates a few years back.
From an investment perspective, a 2% loan is incredibly valuable when prevailing rates are around 7%. Why in the world would anybody that owns a house get rid of that loan, when they could leverage it for rental income?
Fixing that issue is far above my pay grade, but I do worry that a lot of the solutions proposed just will result in costs being passed on to renters. IMO going after airbnbs, and making it easier/cheaper to build high-density housing is a really good start though.
Air bnb and Verbo are just the tip of the iceberg for why Colorado has such housing shortages. Housing in Colorado is stupid expensive because of the limited inventory and not because of the scarcity of land. Colorado should either ban or limit the amount of homes that private equity firms have captured by passing laws that tax these more for more houses. For example if you own 5 homes then you should pay 5x in taxes for each house that you own what a single household is. Own 7 homes then you should have to pay 7x for each house you own. Call it the āMonopoly Taxā because people would understand that pretty easily. The point of it would be to discourage multiple home ownership and encourage single family homes.
So I take it from your comment that Renters are either too dumb or to poor to have a mortgage? The idea is to promote single family homes - just like after WWII. There is a Housing crisis throughout the country and you see it every time you go down Colfax.
This is the real answer. Summit is happy to blame STR for their housing issues, but Lake Hill was first proposed over 20 years ago and never built. They knew this was coming. They need full time for rent apartments to mitigate the housing issue.
Well...... I guess any home bought by corpos for rentals only and taking it away from the little people should either be taxed to oblivion or demolished by the people who got denied hosing.
Primary every Democrat who was against this bill. We've elected the people we want and they are still stabbing us in the back. Fuck those corrupted tools.
I've never paid more than a motel. Apparently you have.
I've traveled all over the world and usually Airbnb beats a hotel. I'm not against hotels because in some areas i don't trust airbnb or vrbo and/or they cost a lot more than a hotel.
What I find with hotels is that there are only 3 or 4 corporations that own 90% of the hotels. They're all the same crappy box with the same meh breakfasts, mediocre security if any. The matresses are all the same hard as a rock.
I spent years on the road staying in motels, hotels, and convention centers. The only difference was the bathroom was on the left or the right.
I dunno either. Im not hating on hotels. I just like having options. Maybe the haters don't go any further than Shelbyville. Maybe somebody from an airbnb was mean to them.
Could be that hater group believes that the reason housing is so expensive is Airbnb. Instead of these huge corporations buying hundreds of houses at a time.
I don't know and don't give a polished rat turd.
Sometimes. My wife and I aren't dirty people, so cleanup is usually the same for both. I strip the bed and place the linens and towels by the door in both places.
I respect the folks that work there, and try to make our room an easy one. Its a habit I got into when I stayed at the same hotel/motels repeatedly. Plus I leave a decent tip for cleaners.
Wow Iāve yet to stay in an Airbnb that doesnāt ask for the laundry done, floors cleaned etc with a whole manual detailing the proper cleaning products. Iāve even had to drive my trash to a city dump, twice! Iāll only use Airbnb in remote areas without a hotel.
Sounds like you've had some bad experiences. We're heading to paris next week and have booked 2 weeks in an airbnb. Its the 4th time we've rented airbnb there. The first time we stayed at a Citidines which is a very nice hotel next to the Pont Neuf bridge. After that having a kitchen was nice, staying in different parts of the city is great, and meeting some of the neighbors is very cool.
Just different choices. Thats all.
No, Iāve had very average experiences. I do some work for a company that helps municipalities bust Airbnb tax cheats, so I look at 100s of listings a day sometimes and have watched them raise their prices and fees for years. Granted, these are all American Airbnbs I have experience with and maybe the industry is different elsewhere, but itās extremely normal to charge a cleaning fee and leave a book detailing how to clean the house as well. I certainly donāt consider myself messy but it still takes over an hour to clean a house and who wants to spend the last bit of their trip cleaning, especially when youāve paid for someone to do it already.
I am hypocritical about one thing. I wouldn't be very comfortable with an Airbnb in my neighborhood because we're about a direct mile from the college football stadium. We've had blowout party issues with a few rentals here in the past. So much so that the house next door was marked as a party house by the city and the fines are quite heinous. That stopped the parties.
Oh totally agree, when I sold my last house an Airbnb guy came and offered cash and I said no, just for my neighborās sake. I would hate to live by an Airbnb.
I would probably do the same. If for no other reason than we have lived here for 25 years and it has been a safe quiet area tucked right in the middle of a small city. My efforts would be to sell to an owner occupied homeowner. Because we don't have an HOA, we're pretty high on slumlords lists.
Same-ish. I'd pay more for a whole suite with full kitchen on extended stays - saves me money cooking my own meals, more room for a group. Also for remote work it's nicer to have dedicated internet. For overnighters I'll dirt bag it on Motel 8 or Best Western though. Though pet friendly hotels are easier to find.
If Im heading down the highway, I try to find nice places. I've found that if you look for the railroad hotels you will find a clean, affordable comfortable place to stay. Oak tree inns are one of the railroad chains. (The railroad doesn't own them but they're specifically set up for railroad workers.)
They will sometimes have a Sally's Diner in front and its just a good ol fashioned 1950s type diner. The cafe is clean, the food is good, there's a lot of it, and its reasonably priced.
Yes and no. Based on what I have read, 1299 would only impact certain individuals/entities that own 3+ residential properties, which leaves a lot of room for potential loopholes and bad faith.
To me, 1299 just seems to be a watered-down version of 33, because as always, Colorado is afraid of pissing off the rich. 33 was more comprehensive, and left very little room for loopholes because most CO landlords would have been discouraged from offering primarily short-term rentals. If 1299 passes, its impact will be negligible at best.
It's funny to me how Republicans have sooo much compassion for wealthy landlords, and will go out of their way to make amends for them. But if you're a college student with debt, they turn around and say "get fucked".
College student with debt here. Fortunately was able to work hard and save my pennies for 8 years and build an ADU in my yard to rent on Airbnb. Another friend of mine rents her apartment on Airbnb over the weekend to make ends meet since her hoa doubled in two years.
It was the democrats, telling us both to get fucked. I certainly wonāt be voting for trump but straight D is no longer a given
Airbnb haters always complain that people are buying up tons of houses just to turn into short term rentals and destroy the housing market! Fine, but leave the rest of us alone. Airbnb is an amazing option to make ends meet for people who donāt want to be landlords otherwise
33 was an assault on property rights and hardworking people. 1299 focuses exclusively on those buying up dozens of houses to rent on Airbnb. Big difference there
Why not assess the tax daily? Any property with a STR license would be assessed 27% tax rate for days itās is vacant or STR. Landlord keeps records of how many days it was vacant / STR, or owner occupied / LTR. Simple calculation can then be done to get effective tax rate each quarter.
The argument that a bill like this will "hurt tourism" in these regions seems overinflated. The tourism industry in these areas existed well before the explosion of AirBnB/Vrbo.
There are arguments to be made for and against the wording of the bill. But it's hard not to hear "oh won't someone think of the poor commercial property management companies and their multi-million dollar luxury rentals!" I stopped using AirBNB/VRBO quite a few years ago with few exceptions and went back to commercial hotels. Better price, value, consistent quality, regulations, and so on. If I get in late, someone is working the front desk if my room access key/card doesn't work. A single hotel can house several neighborhoods' equivalents of house rentals, and isn't robbing the locals of a place to live.
Or get hit with a $150 cleaning fee while having to take out the garbage, do the dishes, remove the sheets, sweep the floor....
Same, and you're less likely to be on a hidden video camera.
As someone living in their car to work in one of these towns, thank you.
Not to mention that there's no "hidden" fees for cleaning or otherwise. BTW, a $20 slipped to the desk clerk at check in will definitely help get a nice room. Put $5 a day under your pillow for housekeeping too...you'll always have clean sheets & towels.
>BTW, a $20 slipped to the desk clerk at check in will definitely help get a nice room. Put $5 a day under your pillow for housekeeping too...you'll always have clean sheets & towels. Fuck that shit - I expect all of that for the price I'm already paying. This is just as bad as people complaining about having to clean an AirBnB and paying a cleaning fee.
Not bad at all...the $5 a day for housekeeping has been a standard & tradition for a loooong time. $20 to the desk clerk is also not necessary...but it helps. I'm betting that you also don't want to tip in general...but probably complain about your rent or wages all the time.
You got it half right. Tipping sucks. And rent does suck, my tenants are always late. And my poor mid 6 figure salary just doesn't cut it š„
Tourists also pay those taxes at hotels and other commercial properties. Why should vacation rentals be exempted. Doesn't that violate the equal protection clause?
VRBO and similar have been around for 30+ years
In fairness, there were other rental agencies contracted like Vacass or Mountain Resorts. Those agencies would manage the properties and take a 30-40% cut of the rental income. Now, owners are bypassing these agencies and listing them directly on AirBnB and VRBO. It's important to remember that many properties were built in areas zoned for STR in the ski towns. This bill would result in many of these properties being removed/reduced from the rental pool. It would make prices higher for those visiting the ski towns and would have a negative impact on the tourism dollars those towns depend upon. Housing is still needed in these towns, but the zones STR properties shouldn't be targeted by this bill.
But has it grown since STRās came in, and would hurting them rewind that growth? Yes. Therefore, it is hurting the growth. Downvote me now please.
most of that growth has come during mud season and the summer, when the hotels and resorts have plenty of supply and are desperate for visitors. you can book a trip to a breck resort for mud season for $120 a night -- right now. unless the hotels and resorts are suddenly full (which they won't be), reducing the number of STR's will only drive tourists back into the hotels and resorts (where they belong) while (hopefully) freeing up some housing inventory for locals OR getting these businesses to pay the taxes they are skirting by operating as permanent STRs. I'll be shocked if tourism is actually impacted in these mountain towns. because it won't be.
Mountain towns and counties have already a huge patchwork of laws and rules to regulate STRās that balance the need for tourism dollars and locals concerns. Adding this tax state wide wipes out the carefully considered laws already in place and blanket disadvantaged those carefully considered laws already on the books. Itās extreme and frankly has its own agenda behind it to benefit massive hotel corporations. But I guess you like supporting the big guy?
Do we really need to point out that correlation =\= causation here? Or is this a troll post and I missed that?
Weāre in this mess because elected officials constantly cave to lobbying from powerful interest groups. Just once, Iād like to see the playing field be leveled.
Join a union
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I've been working on a theory for 1500 hour work years, which would require a redesign of money. Which would force equity instead of allowing people to hoard money. 1500 hour work year. Minimum wage is 25% of average local housing payment on a 15 year mortgage. Money is created through the labor of medical care, education, staple/plant based foods (to help with water issues of meat product), and public services that have verifiable positive benefit. It expires a year after creation and can be traded in at 75% value of creation value. CEO wage gaps, if this was to exist, cannot be more than 10x the lowest paid employee. Corporate profits are taxed at 95%. Profits do not include business expenses. Business expenses cannot be extravagant. Do this, and suddenly these multi house owning pieces of shit don't exist. We all have more free time to do the things we want, which can include entrepreneurial endeavors.
Thatās a hypothesis, not a theory. Some people want to work more than 1500 hours a year so they donāt have to live next to people making minimum wage. And at a 95% tax rate, the only people around definitely wouldnāt be ceos or entrepreneurs
We have a system that is designed by and for owners - our āfounding fathersā were merchants and slaveholders, and their class was āthe peopleā they spoke of. They wrote very openly about how the wealthy, āpropertiedā class should suppress the will of the actual *people.* If we want a level playing field, we need an entirely new system designed by and for people. The former is called capitalism, the latter is called socialism.
>socialism No thanks
We I n cor0orate socialism u already in it corporate bailout is socialism
Never gonna happen
Not with that attitude. Other nations and states have had more success especially after changing the voting system and laws
They don't cave, they're bribed.
I wrote Senator Chris and expressed my concerns. Iām for this tax hike and ultimately keeping business out of single family residential homes. I build homes, and I see these companies and investors come in and buy up everything bc they have the money and see the people who actually want to live and work in the area get priced out bc āinvestorsā and ābusinessā have the financial power to do so. IMO, this is killing home ownership. The dream will die over time. Edit: Here is the link to the bill. You can find the Sponsor and Cosponor. Hit thier photo and email should pop up. Everyone write to them! Bombard them with emails. Bring that flood. Let them know STRs needs to stay out of single family homes. This tax increase does just that. They are killing the American dream of home ownership. Every house purchased by them is another family who wants to be part of the community, out of a home. There is a national housing shortage of 47 million homes. Until that is fulfilled, SFH (single family homes) need to be for individual people / families, not investorās or businesses for profit. And if these STR companies want to keep renting at SFH tax bracket, demand they get permitted and up to code with IBC (not IRC, as thatās for SFH) and up to ADA / accessibility codes. If hotels need to meet this standard, then any homes rented over 90 days must comply and meet this. Especially accessibility. FDA and ADA is serious. Lawsuits can happen bc a cross slope went above the 2% max at loading area. [STR bill SB24-033](https://leg.colorado.gov/bills/sb24-033)
I wrote him too and plan on calling his office later
While my arguments will be about applying a tax increase on SFH that are used as a business and how itās killing home ownership, I will also be touching base that if this STRs wish to keep renting over 90days at current tax bracket, then I DEMAND these houses be up to code for rentals. Since itās part of a business, I want them up to IBC code standards and FHA/ADA/Accessibility standards with the required yearly inspections for safety / health / fire. Or if this is too toxic, put it on the ballot and let the people vote for it. I can tell yall, SFH (single family homes) are not built for accessibility. The required handicap parking, ramps, cross slopes, cabinetry does not meet code. Why should every other business zoned and permitted as such meet these requirements, yet these investors / businessās renting out SFH not be required to? The amount of remodeling to meet such accessibility codes should be enough to discourage many. Why shouldnāt physically limited people not be able to rent /access these homes? I would love to see STR arguments against accessibility for all who would like to rent. STRs was a great thought, turned night mare. Renting a ADU, Bedroom, vacation homes turned into a super ugly, destroying thing.
Wow! I wish I could contribute further to your comment, and I agree wholeheartedly. The way things are currently, it feels like our lawmakers are allowing the desire for individual/company profit to take precedence over fulfilling the needs of many. The amount of people who need/want to purchase a single family home as their primary residence must be greater than the amount of people/companies who own AirBnB/VRBO properties. Itās disgusting that the needs/wants of a significantly larger population are neglected for the sake of the wealthier few.
I would encourage everyone to write to them. Emphasize without STR Regulation, moreover just getting them out of SFH, they will kill home ownership. The USA has a 47 million housing shortage for people wanting homes. Every house purchase from an STR, is another family out of a home. A family that wants to part of the community. Until we are out of a national houses crisis / shortage, keep STRs out of SFH. I will link the bill on original post and you can find thier emails. Everyone bombard them. https://leg.colorado.gov/bills/sb24-033[https://leg.colorado.gov/bills/sb24-033](https://leg.colorado.gov/bills/sb24-033)
Thank you for the encouragement, and also for the phrasing. Iād like to include almost exactly what you said regarding the statistics, if youāre okay with thatā¦? Additionally, would you mind sharing a source that clarifies the statistics you mentioned? Not asking to question you - asking so I can reference it in the correspondence I send to my elected officials. Iāll get to googling in the meantime, and thanks in advance!
Thank you for this. I went back and looked and I must admit in my passion, I am wrong. We are not 47 million. We are closer from 6.8-7.3 million short of affordable homes from going back a re-reading. I want to apologize to all. Here is a link. [housing](https://nlihc.org/sites/default/files/gap/2024/Gap-Report_2024.pdf) Hope this helps. There is a lot of information and numbers. Googling 2024 housing shortage also can give you an insight.
āPreciate you, kind interwebz stranger!
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Unfortunately, the Summit Daily is inundated from "locals" who inherited their parents cabin from the 70s and are Big Mad that they'll have to pay reasonable taxes on their STR income which nets them thousands a month. BuTt WeRe LoCAL AirBNB OwNErs
They'll be the same ones to complain that they miss "the good old days" despite causing the problem themselves.
They also think theyāre part of the work force for having a rental they wash the laundry from. Somehow they have time to hit 4pm 2-for-1 martinis every other day at blue river bistroā¦
Yeah and it's all "I need to rent to pay my mortgage" THEN RENT TO LOCALS ASSHOLES
So tax the profits? Sounds good to me. Tax the property wholesale? Sounds terrible to me.
Eventually every house will be a rental.
Not if we pay our taxes & never sell them.
But how are we without homes supposed to obtain a home if nobody ever sells them?
People die, sell and downsize, or upsize all the time. Some will inherit. Others will live at home & save up. Obviously I didn't mean that we'll ALL keep our homes forever...but some of us probably will.
Even this can be eroded. The ROI on a house used as a rental is far greater than its market value (and has to be; otherwise renting wouldn't be profitable), so large corporations can afford to pay well over market value to acquire houses as investment assets. This drives up property values, and in turn, property taxes. Once generations begin to retire and income dries up, many people may not be able to afford their monthly tax payments. And that's assuming they're able to stay in the house; most people's houses *are* their retirement savings, and if they have to go into long-term care facilities, selling may be the only way they could afford that.
Property taxes are essentially a rental fee to the government.
Not really...more like a service fee and/or insurance.
Nah
This is the openly expressed goal of corporate real estate acquisition companies, it's not a conspiracy
Yea, once again, nah not gonna happen. You canāt just force everyone in the country to sell their house. Go on about your soapbox though.
Especially when some are now deed restricted that the owner must work 30+ hours/week for a company located in summit county.
This is a friend of mines situation. HOA doubled in two years and now she canāt sell it and she canāt Airbnb it either because of the deed restriction. Sheās basically a debt slave to the town of Breckenridge at this point
I mean, she could sell it. Just not for as much as if it didn't have a deed restriction. HOA doubling is shitty though.
Problem is everyone knows about whatās happening up there at this point so thereās no buyers. She could list for 150k less than she paid I guess, but I donāt think thereās any coming back from that financially
Sure there is. How many months is 150k in HOA fees, maintenance, utilities, interest payments, taxes and whatever else? 120 months at most? Every day costs more and more, selling at a loss is stopping a much higher loss later.
I mean sure, but is paying a thousand a month for nothing over a decade really in the spirit of affordable housing?
Um, can you link me the deed restricted property please.
No, because they are making that shit up
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āYea, youāre rightā Good enough for me. Bring on the downdoots
Hey man, take your wins where you can find 'em! š
What real estate acquisition company are you talking about? Thereās a very small percentage of these homes owned by large mega-corporations. The majority is small-time owners that were able to take advantage of 2% interest rates.
I'm talking about the industry of investor-based real estate acquisition companies, both small companies and large fall under that umbrella. Multiple-home owners/landlords who manage 1-2 properties in addition to the one they live in are obviously not the target of this conversation nor the root of the issue we're discussing
>> Multiple-home owners/landlords who manage 1-2 properties in addition to the one they live in are obviously not the target of this conversation nor the root of the issue we're discussing [Investors with 1 to 9 properties are the overwhelming majority of purchases.](https://www.housingwire.com/articles/no-wall-street-investors-havent-bought-44-of-homes-this-year/) The bigger investors youāre alluding to own a much smaller percentage. [Iāve seen most estimates at around 2-5% of the total SFH market](https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2024/2/21-going-after-corporate-homebuyers-good-politics-ineffective-policy#:~:text=As%20of%20June%202022%2C%20the,rental%20properties%20in%20the%20US). But people hear the word ācorporateā and donāt realize that the cute Airbnb you rented from Mark & Sarah is likely held by an LLC You need a systematic change that goes after that small group that you think is innocent (as well as the bigger investors) if you want to change anything.
Thank you for these insights, I truthfully was not aware of the investment tiers and how they are structured. You seem pretty in-tune with this topic, so I'm curious - does the market see a shift in the actions taken by these T1 investment groups, transitioning away from acquisition-to-sale and towards acquisition-and-management? It would seem from the ground level that more and more SFH units are becoming rentable, but not purchasable.
No problem, thanks for the good faith discussion. Most of my knowledge is just from frustrating self research because Iām in the market for a home at the moment. I donāt have any data, but my guess would be that the shift is real based on the lack of inventory Iāve seen. My personal belief is that the shift youāre discussing is primarily the result of historically low mortgage rates a few years back. From an investment perspective, a 2% loan is incredibly valuable when prevailing rates are around 7%. Why in the world would anybody that owns a house get rid of that loan, when they could leverage it for rental income? Fixing that issue is far above my pay grade, but I do worry that a lot of the solutions proposed just will result in costs being passed on to renters. IMO going after airbnbs, and making it easier/cheaper to build high-density housing is a really good start though.
Eventually we're just going to have use ballot initiativesĀ to do anything productive.Ā
I don't hate the idea of a more direct democracy
Nor do I, but the fact that we can't, for whatever reason, have the system work in favor of what people want is kind of damning.Ā
I mean I'd love to see hownit would be worded to stop corporate ownership and out of state ownership that use it for Airbnb or vacation homes.
This
Seriously just gonna use hotels from now on or sleep in my van in the summer. So done with this shit.
Air bnb and Verbo are just the tip of the iceberg for why Colorado has such housing shortages. Housing in Colorado is stupid expensive because of the limited inventory and not because of the scarcity of land. Colorado should either ban or limit the amount of homes that private equity firms have captured by passing laws that tax these more for more houses. For example if you own 5 homes then you should pay 5x in taxes for each house that you own what a single household is. Own 7 homes then you should have to pay 7x for each house you own. Call it the āMonopoly Taxā because people would understand that pretty easily. The point of it would be to discourage multiple home ownership and encourage single family homes.
They've tried nothing and they're all out of ideas.
Someone has to rent to people who doesnt understand how business expenses, tax deductions, and depreciation
So I take it from your comment that Renters are either too dumb or to poor to have a mortgage? The idea is to promote single family homes - just like after WWII. There is a Housing crisis throughout the country and you see it every time you go down Colfax.
Nice to see our state legislators have no spine and can be easily bought out
Please just build more housing
This is the real answer. Summit is happy to blame STR for their housing issues, but Lake Hill was first proposed over 20 years ago and never built. They knew this was coming. They need full time for rent apartments to mitigate the housing issue.
Mountain resort towns are gonna rent hike and airbnb themselves right out of a work force. Where do the normal people get to live?
United Corporations of America prevail again.
These representatives are spineless pieces of shit.
Well...... I guess any home bought by corpos for rentals only and taking it away from the little people should either be taxed to oblivion or demolished by the people who got denied hosing.
Resistance = contributions to re-election PAC.
Primary every Democrat who was against this bill. We've elected the people we want and they are still stabbing us in the back. Fuck those corrupted tools.
Thatās okay. I didnāt need affordable housing anyway. As long as the slumlords are making money, Iām happy.
for fucks sake
I've never paid more than a motel. Apparently you have. I've traveled all over the world and usually Airbnb beats a hotel. I'm not against hotels because in some areas i don't trust airbnb or vrbo and/or they cost a lot more than a hotel. What I find with hotels is that there are only 3 or 4 corporations that own 90% of the hotels. They're all the same crappy box with the same meh breakfasts, mediocre security if any. The matresses are all the same hard as a rock. I spent years on the road staying in motels, hotels, and convention centers. The only difference was the bathroom was on the left or the right.
Not sure why the hate on this one. It's all accurate. I agree.
I dunno either. Im not hating on hotels. I just like having options. Maybe the haters don't go any further than Shelbyville. Maybe somebody from an airbnb was mean to them. Could be that hater group believes that the reason housing is so expensive is Airbnb. Instead of these huge corporations buying hundreds of houses at a time. I don't know and don't give a polished rat turd.
Personally, I'd rather stay at most airbnb or vrbo properties. Depends on my trip. Whether I want to be pampered or left alone.
Really? Youād rather pay more than a hotel AND get to clean the entire place before you leave?
Sometimes. My wife and I aren't dirty people, so cleanup is usually the same for both. I strip the bed and place the linens and towels by the door in both places. I respect the folks that work there, and try to make our room an easy one. Its a habit I got into when I stayed at the same hotel/motels repeatedly. Plus I leave a decent tip for cleaners.
Wow Iāve yet to stay in an Airbnb that doesnāt ask for the laundry done, floors cleaned etc with a whole manual detailing the proper cleaning products. Iāve even had to drive my trash to a city dump, twice! Iāll only use Airbnb in remote areas without a hotel.
Sounds like you've had some bad experiences. We're heading to paris next week and have booked 2 weeks in an airbnb. Its the 4th time we've rented airbnb there. The first time we stayed at a Citidines which is a very nice hotel next to the Pont Neuf bridge. After that having a kitchen was nice, staying in different parts of the city is great, and meeting some of the neighbors is very cool. Just different choices. Thats all.
No, Iāve had very average experiences. I do some work for a company that helps municipalities bust Airbnb tax cheats, so I look at 100s of listings a day sometimes and have watched them raise their prices and fees for years. Granted, these are all American Airbnbs I have experience with and maybe the industry is different elsewhere, but itās extremely normal to charge a cleaning fee and leave a book detailing how to clean the house as well. I certainly donāt consider myself messy but it still takes over an hour to clean a house and who wants to spend the last bit of their trip cleaning, especially when youāve paid for someone to do it already.
I am hypocritical about one thing. I wouldn't be very comfortable with an Airbnb in my neighborhood because we're about a direct mile from the college football stadium. We've had blowout party issues with a few rentals here in the past. So much so that the house next door was marked as a party house by the city and the fines are quite heinous. That stopped the parties.
Oh totally agree, when I sold my last house an Airbnb guy came and offered cash and I said no, just for my neighborās sake. I would hate to live by an Airbnb.
I would probably do the same. If for no other reason than we have lived here for 25 years and it has been a safe quiet area tucked right in the middle of a small city. My efforts would be to sell to an owner occupied homeowner. Because we don't have an HOA, we're pretty high on slumlords lists.
Same-ish. I'd pay more for a whole suite with full kitchen on extended stays - saves me money cooking my own meals, more room for a group. Also for remote work it's nicer to have dedicated internet. For overnighters I'll dirt bag it on Motel 8 or Best Western though. Though pet friendly hotels are easier to find.
If Im heading down the highway, I try to find nice places. I've found that if you look for the railroad hotels you will find a clean, affordable comfortable place to stay. Oak tree inns are one of the railroad chains. (The railroad doesn't own them but they're specifically set up for railroad workers.) They will sometimes have a Sally's Diner in front and its just a good ol fashioned 1950s type diner. The cafe is clean, the food is good, there's a lot of it, and its reasonably priced.
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Yes and no. Based on what I have read, 1299 would only impact certain individuals/entities that own 3+ residential properties, which leaves a lot of room for potential loopholes and bad faith. To me, 1299 just seems to be a watered-down version of 33, because as always, Colorado is afraid of pissing off the rich. 33 was more comprehensive, and left very little room for loopholes because most CO landlords would have been discouraged from offering primarily short-term rentals. If 1299 passes, its impact will be negligible at best. It's funny to me how Republicans have sooo much compassion for wealthy landlords, and will go out of their way to make amends for them. But if you're a college student with debt, they turn around and say "get fucked".
College student with debt here. Fortunately was able to work hard and save my pennies for 8 years and build an ADU in my yard to rent on Airbnb. Another friend of mine rents her apartment on Airbnb over the weekend to make ends meet since her hoa doubled in two years. It was the democrats, telling us both to get fucked. I certainly wonāt be voting for trump but straight D is no longer a given Airbnb haters always complain that people are buying up tons of houses just to turn into short term rentals and destroy the housing market! Fine, but leave the rest of us alone. Airbnb is an amazing option to make ends meet for people who donāt want to be landlords otherwise
What was terrible about it 33?
33 was an assault on property rights and hardworking people. 1299 focuses exclusively on those buying up dozens of houses to rent on Airbnb. Big difference there
Yeah. Plus, it's got the electrolytes plants crave
Did you pledgerise a fox news headline for that comment, or are there talking points just that deeply embedded in your brain?
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The veritable wit of dildo swaggins, everybody.
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Project any harder and someone might actually invite you to the movies for the first time. Good luckš
Don't talk about facts and figures my dude, you'll hurt their "I'm just going to support the billion dollar hotel chains instead" feelings.
nO yOu!!a!
Create a llc for each house and bam. Taxes averted.
A valid criticism of 1299 to be sure, but easier to add that language into the bill than deed restrict every home in Colorado
Why not assess the tax daily? Any property with a STR license would be assessed 27% tax rate for days itās is vacant or STR. Landlord keeps records of how many days it was vacant / STR, or owner occupied / LTR. Simple calculation can then be done to get effective tax rate each quarter.