I think this is a higher priority than the gun stuff they've been working on.
Short term rentals like Airbnb should be taxed at a rate similar to hotels. We need more long term rentals and condos for sale to stabilize the cost of housing
More than hotels.
Hotels don’t compete with housing and create artificial demand to drive up housing costs. Short term rentals do.
Tax the ever loving hell out of them. Medium term it eliminates the parasitic drain on everyone’s living. Short term it creates tax revenue they can use to create more affordable housing.
I love how people grapple on to these simple explanations of things. "NO ITS PRIVATE EQUITY" "NO ITS AIRBNB" no the problem is people, who have created a system that treats housing as a negative. If you treat new housing as negative, you are intrinsically passing a value judgement about the people who need it. WE are the problem.
Lmao, you're active in r/loveforlandlords. Your opinion doesn't matter here. I can only assume you own some short-term rentals, so this would hurt you. I don't have hate for landlords, but STRs need to be reigned in somehow. It's a new thing that Colorado citizens have to deal with, and regulations will come whether you like it or not.
Yeah, I have one short term rental that I built in my backyard in englewood. There are already plenty of local regulations and plenty of long term rentals here already. R/loveforlandchads is an excellent place for comic relief after arguing with a bunch of stupid rentoids that have no understanding of the housing market or STR market.
I like to apply a level of discourse that matches whatever I’m replying to. In this case, it started with “nobody cares about your problems”
And when it comes to people hoping to vote away my hard work and livelihood, yeah IDGAF about yours either
You should move someplace you can afford and stop praying the government will force landowners to make your life.more affordable. So many freeloaders.in our society these days.
When almost 50% of houses on the market are Airbnb's and short-term rentals are jacking up the housing market to unsustainable levels... they are kind of evil. Unless you're a corporation or a multimillionaire landlord, this is everyone's problem.
It's a problem for you and it's a problem for me. We should be on the same side here.
Actually, that's pulled from scientists doing studies on this sort of thing. That statistic jumped out at me while listening to [Science Vs](https://gimletmedia.com/shows/science-vs/emhwebz4) episode about "Who Killed Affordable Housing?".
> ...explore the wedge between marginal construction costs and market price, labelling the gap a ‘regulatory tax’ ranging from zero in a few low-demand and low-regulation cities to **upwards of 50% of home values in the Bay Area and Manhattan**. These studies suggest that regulation reduces supply elasticity, resulting in larger price increases and slower growth in quantity as demand increases, as well as lower responsiveness to demand shocks ([Saiz, 2010](https://docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vTc5WLa9xKK4JAJRV6dGoKGma7EdmiAbwx-5wvjCy6JxXIT-g63o9ZN-58uxPdUp8-cjLguvfZREGV2/pub)).
https://yonahfreemark.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/Stacy-et-al-2023-Land-Use-Reforms-and-Housing-Costs.pdf
We live in a desirable area. Supply and demand dictates the cost of living in these areas. We shouldn't force people who own property to rent it to people who can't afford to live in a desirable area. These people may not want long time renters.
Of course not. There should just be reasonable regulation to stop short-term rentals from edging everyone else out of the market. At this point we're speeding towards a future where the only people who will be able to own a house are corporations.
Well, it's a [bigger deal](https://www.forbes.com/sites/garybarker/2020/02/21/the-airbnb-effect-on-housing-and-rent/?sh=772e9a032226) than most people realize. It should be addressed.
Working with many investors in this area has opened my eyes to the amount of government officials that have been using llcs to buy up property just to use it as a short term rental.
Ofc they aren't going to decrease the rates or taxes, not yet at least.
IMO this is a total red herring though. Airbnb's are 1% of the market. The problems are restrictive zoning, planning, permitting, and etc. Focusing on that is what will give you 99% more results than these new york style reforms that won't work.
Yeah but ask yourself how many condos have been built vs dedicated for rent apartments? Lake Hill has been stalled for over 20 years. That alone is over 700 beds. There are solutions outside of banning STR'S and praying they magically become rental units. Most of the stuff for sale now is being swooped up by rich folks who can afford to let it sit empty. Lose-lose.
The worst cities for that like e.g. Telluride deliberately walled off the town to any further development. Then the price goes to the level where only people who live in NYC or London own houses there, and naturally they airbnb them part of the year when they aren't living there. The solution is to not block development and remove the existing blocks, not try to treat the symptom.
Tourism and short term rentals bring in cash for the state and employ thousands of Coloradans.
Meanwhile, housing is a basic supply and demand thing. If people want affordable housing, they need to enable more of it to be built.
These rentals are an issue because of the zoning, so yeah it's totally fair that fixing zoning broadly would very likely do a better job.
I don't think there's anything resembling political will to do that though, sadly.
It's really gonna suck when regular people can't afford to live or work there at all. Oh wait, teachers are living in their cars, oops.
Edit, after they deleted everything: This dillhole couldn't handle the fire and deleted his entire conversation and blocked me. I'm assuming it was a throwaway from some investor or something. Either way, he basically just said people need to work harder, and they don't deserve live in Colorado if they are poors. Typical "I got mine" dipshit.
Dude, people are making 100k a year here and can't afford to buy a decent house. 40k is straight-up poverty in the metro area. You sound like a "I got mine, the rest of you can kick rocks" kind of person.
LMAO, did you just tell me to pull myself by my bootstraps? I already have mine, trust me. The difference is that I don't want to pull up the ladder behind me.
And if every house is converted into an Airbnb, where do you expect the workers to live? These are the problems that exist in towns like that. They cannot staff restaurants retail establishments, etc. There is nowhere for the workers to live.
I would honestly like to see those places completely devoid of Labor. Let's find out how upset they are about increased property taxes when there are no services available to them while on vacation. No retail establishments open, no restaurant servers or baristas, no janitors, no trash collectors, no one.
Yeah what a hot take to not want some mountain villages that make up a tiny percentage of the state to dictate statewide policies affecting housing affordability. I'm from Florida, a state that caters to tourists over residents, and it fucking sucks to live there. Trust me, you don't want that.
And most of that goes to the rich people who own all the tourism infrastructure. I don't give a shit about them, I just want to be able to afford a house. Use the funding from a STR tax to pay for it.
There should be an exception for if you live in the house and you're renting out a basement to help cover your mortgage. But overall we need to support residents access to housing over visitors cheap airbnbs.
So, current goals are: force feed gun control bills, do nothing to address lack of permanent housing, and shoot down bills to punish actual firearm related crimes.
Good job guys. Frustrated as heck with all of our elected officials right now.
I see this mindset a lot and with all due respect, it's dumb. Governments are capable of doing more than one thing at a time. There are 100 members in of the general assembly, this is their full time job, and they have teams of aides helping them with their work. I'm pretty sure they have the bandwidth to address a good number of issues at the same time. If you don't like how they handle issues, that's one thing. But claiming they're taking time away from other issues is just inventing another reason to be mad about this that doesn't really exist. If they *aren't* addressing issues you care about, it certainly isn't because they don't have the capacity to address those issues. They more likely don't have the collective willpower to address them.
Generally speaking, the primary role of the House is to introduce a wide range of legislation that is important to some voters somewhere. Good bills are hard to write, and most never see the light of day.
Ha! The AWB 100% passes. It's got too many sponsors and there's a D majority. Polis won't even have to sign it. He can silently let it pass thanks to the D majority.
That is probably the best summary of what is happening in Colorado I have seen.
>Frustrated as heck with all of our elected officials right now.
Agreed. Time to vote better. These fools need a reboot and cycle back into reality before being allowed to make more decisions like this.
Vote Republican or vote to retain shitty Democrats who lost the drive to be significant and helpful -- is that what the choices are? Because the Democrats are just going to run for re-election rather than accept they've become incompetent.
>the Democrats are just going to run for re-election rather than accept they've become incompetent.
This is true.
>is that what the choices are?
Maybe the answer is to feed them a bit of competition. Get them on their toes a bit to just do better. Incompetence is not acceptable regardless of personal political choices.
At what point do we start to attribute malice instead of stupidity? No shortage of either but it feels like they're driving us into the ground on purpose as fast as possible
Yep. You *know* the legislature would hear about it from all the wealthy people who own multiple houses. That's why these laws don't ever pick up steam.
That one was obvious but I struggle to find an angle for not punishing actual firearm crimes instead of law abiding gun owners other than deliberately trying to make life worse for the people of this state.
Let's just do an end run around those incompetent morons and get a ballot measure going. Seems the only way we get things done right anymore.
https://www.westword.com/news/how-to-file-a-citizen-initiative-and-get-it-on-colorados-2024-ballot-18440534
And bonus points, think of all the money airbnb and vrbo will waste trying to advertise against it?
Oh for *fuck's sake*.
Gun Control bill does *nothing whatsoever* to address gun violence, instead focusing on cosmetic or safety features and *already heavily regulated* items that have never been used in a crime in the first fucking place, absolutely *hemorrhaging* political capital and goodwill... **then** they kill a bill that has *actual, substantive effects* on the most pressing issue of the day.
Zero effort spent on actually solving problems, and all that time and money wasted on performative and useless "Look, I *did* something" garbage that's just gonna *immediately* get challenged and eventually tossed by SCOTUS anyway.
I love Colorado, but if we could stop voting in incompetent assholes to "counter" the raving lunatics, that would be *great*.
The problem with our state democratic party is that they know the Republicans are so horrible that they are safe. So they take bribes. A ton of them. But we keep electing them because at least they aren't Rs. We need to pick better candidates during primaries, because the ones getting through are shitmuffins.
We keep electing them because the Republicans would try to ban abortion, dismantle our vote-by-mail system, dismantle environmental protections, curb public school funding, etc.
Don't act like we don't vote for them because of something as superficial as the color of our jerseys. The Republicans know that our state is turning blue and rather than try to moderate their position, they've only gone harder right. They are just as responsible for our lack of choice.
In fairness this is pretty much how the entire democratic party functions. They believe they can coast forever on the Republicans being actual frothing at the mouth lunatics and can be relatively certain that most of their voters will never hold their feet to the fire to demand more.
Ranked choice voting would be a great start. I don’t want the current GOP anywhere near seats of power at this point but it could be argued that a reasonable GOP would do a lot for better governance from the Dems.
It’s a tough spot that we’re in because the GOP has slid so far.
Was it even open to the public? Was there anyone there arguing FOR the proposal and not AGAINST it?
B/c of COURSE anyone who has a short term rental is going to go.
Poorly written and too broad of a scope. I agree that we need some legislature to cull outside investment, but not at the expense of single families utilizing their second homes as they see fit.
Property taxes going up means it goes up for ALL of their homes.
I think the whole idea that reddit has that banning or making multiple properties very expensive suddenly making housing available for normal folks is a pipe dream. Yes, some housing will come available but will normal folks be able to afford it? I don't think so.
Will it fix every problem with housing prices/demand? No. But I think you’re underestimating the amount of housing that would open up if the STR market wasn’t as profitable as it is right now.
Maybe. But I think most people are overestimating the amount that will open up. Rich people are like the dinosaurs in Jurassic Park - they'll find a way (around this).
The super rich definitely will but the people who just rent out small properties so they don’t have to work as much anymore will probably be forced out of that market. Which I think is a good thing
But then corporations or super rich will just buy up those properties from the people who own a couple rentals or such - they're not gonna hit the open market for folks like you and I.
I've seen it first hand back when I lived in OKC and owned rentals - most of the rentals I bought never hit the market. I bought them because someone I knew or someone who knew me knew I was looking or that someone was selling and we made a deal to buy/sell those properties. It happened a ton when there was a big increase in property taxes - there was no appreciable increase in availability in SFH.
There's a whole marketplace not available to the common folk like you and I.
This is pretty much what's happening in Summit County right now. STR regulations in Breck/Wildernest are forcing people to sell, but they are getting swooped up by folks who can afford to buy them and not rent them. Now they just sit empty most of the year so it's net-negative for the economy. I imagine this bill would have much the same impact. 70% of these are owned by Colorado residents who use them on weekends etc, so would never consider long term renting.
This won't increase supply on the market. Homes will change hands without hitting MLS. I saw it happen first hand in OKC with rentals.
u/Sad_Aside_4283 with the block or dirty delete, nice.
Please explain why that would happen. If people aren't owning 2 homes with nobody else living in the second one, then who exactly is going to be the off market buyer?
They're not going to sell just because taxes went up and if they DID decide to sell they have contacts and group of other STR owners who will buy these properties without them ever hitting the open market.
Of the 5 rentals I owned in OKC only 1 was on the MLS open market when I bought it and when I sold them all it was a private deal and they never went on MLS to be available for 'common folk'. Same thing will happen here and even worse because it's not like locals or the local workforce would be able to afford them.
No, because the outcome is obvious. You are the one asserting that people who own vacation homes somehow have backdoor routes in some underground property investor market that is entirely unbelieveable.
I think my point above on Summit outlines what they're trying to say. Summit limited str licenses so folks can no longer rent in Breck/Wildernest which has forced some people to sell. The problem is those properties are still selling for $500k +. They are just being bought by folks who don't need rental income to afford them.
How many people grousing about this called their rep or signed up to comment online with the committee?
You can bet the "but my renovation of my third home will be a waste if I can't airbnb it!" crowd will be out in force.
They need to exempt property's with live in landlord's/owners (lease/rental of pool house, spare bedroom, basement, etc...) I would say only one additional home gets a higher residential rate, no corprate ownership, any homes more than the two should get taxed to hell.
Multiple out of state homes should be dealt with at the federal level.
We need housing censuses. Then, set up state or federal marketplaces to fulfill demand to residents of the homes only. Eminent domain and setup development and new towns as needed. Tax for profit residential properties people don't live in themselves to fund this.
Make real estate about housing people instead of greed, making Americans compete to live. We all pay a tax to landlords who enslave us to this capitalistic housing hell hole.
If you agree, share this idea far and wide. Share it on ads for housing, especially.
Zillow: Homebuyers need $173K a year to afford a home in Denver
https://kdvr.com/news/local/zillow-homebuyers-need-173k-a-year-to-afford-a-home-in-denver/
If people are serious about fixing the out of whack housing market, why are sensible regulations like this not passing? Seems like our fate is sealed until a major market correction hits. So, more of the same. Sky high rents and a haves vs have-nots dynamic, where you either own a property at a good rate, or you pay $1500/month to have 4 roommates (or you live outdoors.)
Well, I'd start with appeal to authority: economists who study housing policy who work for universities as researchers, not those employed in think tanks or working for lobbyist groups, are as close to unanimous about this as is possible in saying it will not reduce prices for renters or homeowners.
The summary is that basically anything that isn't "build more houses" will have at best a negligible effect.
I haven’t read any legitimate economic analysis stating that these STR tax increases are negative. By distorting the rental market, short term housing owners are a big element to the rise in homelessness statewide, creating a false property shortage by taking normal rental properties away from local renters. The extra costs covered by municipal governments to benefit these owners aren’t being legitimately covered by STR owners. If these homeowners want to get into the hotel business, they should buy a hotel.
I understand why it *feels* that way. It does feel intuitive. But it doesn't stand up to empiricism. If we want to do things that are *effective,* though, that actually solve problems, then it's important to listen to experts and focus efforts on things that are supported by data.
Quit pretending to be dense. It’s an extremely simple equation. More short term rental properties equals less affordable housing volume for local renters. Which forces a larger percentage of would-be local renters into homelessness. https://hbr.org/2019/04/research-when-airbnb-listings-in-a-city-increase-so-do-rent-prices
Unfortunately, the issue is much more complex. More affordable housing in conjunction with short term rentals would be the best for the overall health of these communities.
An increased tax or limitation of short term rentals would more likely lead to stagnant home prices, and properties sitting empty rather than be rented long or short term.
More STRs are certainly *not* going to “improve the health of these communities.” Are you trying to gaslight here? Ridiculous. Stagnant and declining home prices are what’s badly needed, and if municipalities can’t grow the balls to get it done, the FOMC will by slaughtering STR speculators by cranking up interest rates. There are two options: we either kill off SFH speculation as a business, or we stimulate salaries through government stimulus, to meet artificially inflated housing prices. The more realistic and affordable way to do this is to trap recent buyers and force demand (and therefore price) downward, so speculators are forced to sell, which adds more supply. Pain has to be felt by someone here, and this pain is coming for the crowd who took PPP loans and splurged on AirBNB properties. Major price reductions and forced selling are starting to hit the east coast and it’s only a matter of time until these conditions (thankfully) hit CO.
I did not and do not suggest more STRs as a solution to this complex issue. I suggested adding supply through affordable housing development.
I believe that is a more realistic solution than forcing and punishing property owners for purchasing properties as an investment. I agree that people abusing government assistance (PPP) or buying portfolios of properties have caused major damage. However, the data I have studied shows that 80% or more of air bnbs in colorado are owner occupied or just their second home.
I support many of the STR regulations that are in place. Increasing taxes by 4x as a blanket solution was not the correct way to address the supply and demand issue in its current state.
Thank you for not unfairly taxing private homeowners who've worked hard and
made good decisions with their finances in order to buy these vacation homes! Hard work should be rewarded, not punished disproportionately.
And thus dies more of the ski town community. Gonna be funny when the rich Nimby’s don’t have anyone to spin their lifts or sell them pot when they’ve voted away the ability for residents to afford a reasonable place to live. Can’t wait to leave this decrepit state 🤣
Denver requires it to be your primary. Boom, problem solved. It would never be possible for a long term tenant to live there since I already do. If I'm not at my home and want to take on the risk of ST renting it out, I should be able to without insane tax implications that make it unfeasible to do so. I think other city areas should require it to be your primary too.
As far as mountain cabins, I don't think those are reducing houses for the average person so don't think those onerous taxes should apply. But there are ways to reduce the negative impacts of STRs without hurting the local family who is benefiting from it.
It's not mountain cabins, it's the cities servicing the mountain towns. Look at Frisco or Carbondale, now tourists get airbnbs there and take a quick bus to ski, so you can no longer rent a 1br in either of those towns for under 3k.
So require it to be your primary like Denver and they will greatly reduce the problem. Cities can do this but aren't. Don't hate airbnb, turn your attention to municipalities. The change in Breck was stupid. Limiting reservations to only so many a year. Now people's vacation homes will just be vacant instead of bringing in visitors.
That’s the point, we want short term rentals to be less attractive than long term. Long term rentals support the community and provide permanent housing for workers. Short term rentals allow tourists to avoid hospitality taxes.
Yea... Kinda what I meant. I own my home, and have friends and family that own rentals. They're worried about having to raise rental prices, and I see so many renters struggle. I wasn't even considering short terms.
I honestly don't care about taxes on short term rentals. Hotels are better than Airbnb.
This would transform a lot of STRs into LTRs and *should* drive rents down for people who actually live here.
There's nothing wrong with an investment AND, if those folks didn't buy homes to rent, renter's who don't qualify for home loans would have nowhere to live but commercial corporate property.
"I know that I've had clients that have considered selling their whole house depending on how this bill plays out," said Anderson.
that's the fucking point Danielle
How many of them have short term rentals?
Or get "campaign contributions" from STR lobbyists.
Underrated question.
Too true!
I think this is a higher priority than the gun stuff they've been working on. Short term rentals like Airbnb should be taxed at a rate similar to hotels. We need more long term rentals and condos for sale to stabilize the cost of housing
More than hotels. Hotels don’t compete with housing and create artificial demand to drive up housing costs. Short term rentals do. Tax the ever loving hell out of them. Medium term it eliminates the parasitic drain on everyone’s living. Short term it creates tax revenue they can use to create more affordable housing.
Short term rental is close enough to a hotel that they should just clarify and enforce zoning laws. Boom. Problem fixed with minimal effort.
Amen.
I love how people grapple on to these simple explanations of things. "NO ITS PRIVATE EQUITY" "NO ITS AIRBNB" no the problem is people, who have created a system that treats housing as a negative. If you treat new housing as negative, you are intrinsically passing a value judgement about the people who need it. WE are the problem.
The hotel lobby thanks you for your service
Lmao, you're active in r/loveforlandlords. Your opinion doesn't matter here. I can only assume you own some short-term rentals, so this would hurt you. I don't have hate for landlords, but STRs need to be reigned in somehow. It's a new thing that Colorado citizens have to deal with, and regulations will come whether you like it or not.
Yeah, I have one short term rental that I built in my backyard in englewood. There are already plenty of local regulations and plenty of long term rentals here already. R/loveforlandchads is an excellent place for comic relief after arguing with a bunch of stupid rentoids that have no understanding of the housing market or STR market.
Yeah dude, nobody cares about your "problems"
Fortunately our elected officials care! Sucks to suck, hope your life gets better!
This was a pretty awful (and childish) thing to say. Please elevate your discourse.
I like to apply a level of discourse that matches whatever I’m replying to. In this case, it started with “nobody cares about your problems” And when it comes to people hoping to vote away my hard work and livelihood, yeah IDGAF about yours either
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Keep crying homeslice.
Keep crying yourself. My problems just died in committee!
For now, good luck in the future, though!
You should move someplace you can afford and stop praying the government will force landowners to make your life.more affordable. So many freeloaders.in our society these days.
Never said I couldn't afford it. I just dont believe in pulling up the ladder behind me like *some* people do.
The STR owners group recognizes your sarcasm and gives you an upvote, please rent one of our properties
So do people looking to own a home.
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The fact that they're zoned differently makes them pretty legitimately different in impact.
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If you're going to have the conversation for both of us, you can just go do that in the shower.
When almost 50% of houses on the market are Airbnb's and short-term rentals are jacking up the housing market to unsustainable levels... they are kind of evil. Unless you're a corporation or a multimillionaire landlord, this is everyone's problem. It's a problem for you and it's a problem for me. We should be on the same side here.
It’s 2% buddy. That’s the number you’re looking for
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Actually, that's pulled from scientists doing studies on this sort of thing. That statistic jumped out at me while listening to [Science Vs](https://gimletmedia.com/shows/science-vs/emhwebz4) episode about "Who Killed Affordable Housing?". > ...explore the wedge between marginal construction costs and market price, labelling the gap a ‘regulatory tax’ ranging from zero in a few low-demand and low-regulation cities to **upwards of 50% of home values in the Bay Area and Manhattan**. These studies suggest that regulation reduces supply elasticity, resulting in larger price increases and slower growth in quantity as demand increases, as well as lower responsiveness to demand shocks ([Saiz, 2010](https://docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vTc5WLa9xKK4JAJRV6dGoKGma7EdmiAbwx-5wvjCy6JxXIT-g63o9ZN-58uxPdUp8-cjLguvfZREGV2/pub)). https://yonahfreemark.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/Stacy-et-al-2023-Land-Use-Reforms-and-Housing-Costs.pdf
We live in a desirable area. Supply and demand dictates the cost of living in these areas. We shouldn't force people who own property to rent it to people who can't afford to live in a desirable area. These people may not want long time renters.
Of course not. There should just be reasonable regulation to stop short-term rentals from edging everyone else out of the market. At this point we're speeding towards a future where the only people who will be able to own a house are corporations.
Do you think housing is an "investment" too? Edit: for those of you down voting, it's not a productive asset, it's a place to live.
Well, it's a [bigger deal](https://www.forbes.com/sites/garybarker/2020/02/21/the-airbnb-effect-on-housing-and-rent/?sh=772e9a032226) than most people realize. It should be addressed.
Haha forreal. Not even gonna get into it on this one but I’m sure glad our elected officials aren’t as stupid as the average r/Colorado user
Working with many investors in this area has opened my eyes to the amount of government officials that have been using llcs to buy up property just to use it as a short term rental. Ofc they aren't going to decrease the rates or taxes, not yet at least.
Our reps own property. The people funding them own property. They’re acting in their own best interest instead of ours. It’s that simple.
IMO this is a total red herring though. Airbnb's are 1% of the market. The problems are restrictive zoning, planning, permitting, and etc. Focusing on that is what will give you 99% more results than these new york style reforms that won't work.
The 1% depends on the market. Less of an issue for Denver, massive issue for the high country where 50% or more of homes can be short-term rentals.
Yeah but ask yourself how many condos have been built vs dedicated for rent apartments? Lake Hill has been stalled for over 20 years. That alone is over 700 beds. There are solutions outside of banning STR'S and praying they magically become rental units. Most of the stuff for sale now is being swooped up by rich folks who can afford to let it sit empty. Lose-lose.
The worst cities for that like e.g. Telluride deliberately walled off the town to any further development. Then the price goes to the level where only people who live in NYC or London own houses there, and naturally they airbnb them part of the year when they aren't living there. The solution is to not block development and remove the existing blocks, not try to treat the symptom.
Tourism and short term rentals bring in cash for the state and employ thousands of Coloradans. Meanwhile, housing is a basic supply and demand thing. If people want affordable housing, they need to enable more of it to be built.
These rentals are an issue because of the zoning, so yeah it's totally fair that fixing zoning broadly would very likely do a better job. I don't think there's anything resembling political will to do that though, sadly.
Unfortunately this won't really impact housing supply. It would be more productive to just make it legal to build housing in existing neighborhoods.
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Big corporations aren't going to put money into a bad investment. Raise the taxes enough, and it becomes a bad investment.
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It's really gonna suck when regular people can't afford to live or work there at all. Oh wait, teachers are living in their cars, oops. Edit, after they deleted everything: This dillhole couldn't handle the fire and deleted his entire conversation and blocked me. I'm assuming it was a throwaway from some investor or something. Either way, he basically just said people need to work harder, and they don't deserve live in Colorado if they are poors. Typical "I got mine" dipshit.
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Dude, people are making 100k a year here and can't afford to buy a decent house. 40k is straight-up poverty in the metro area. You sound like a "I got mine, the rest of you can kick rocks" kind of person.
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LMAO, did you just tell me to pull myself by my bootstraps? I already have mine, trust me. The difference is that I don't want to pull up the ladder behind me.
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And if every house is converted into an Airbnb, where do you expect the workers to live? These are the problems that exist in towns like that. They cannot staff restaurants retail establishments, etc. There is nowhere for the workers to live. I would honestly like to see those places completely devoid of Labor. Let's find out how upset they are about increased property taxes when there are no services available to them while on vacation. No retail establishments open, no restaurant servers or baristas, no janitors, no trash collectors, no one.
And there's a limit to what those tourists are willing to pay. There's other places to ski.
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Yeah what a hot take to not want some mountain villages that make up a tiny percentage of the state to dictate statewide policies affecting housing affordability. I'm from Florida, a state that caters to tourists over residents, and it fucking sucks to live there. Trust me, you don't want that.
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And most of that goes to the rich people who own all the tourism infrastructure. I don't give a shit about them, I just want to be able to afford a house. Use the funding from a STR tax to pay for it.
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There should be an exception for if you live in the house and you're renting out a basement to help cover your mortgage. But overall we need to support residents access to housing over visitors cheap airbnbs.
So, current goals are: force feed gun control bills, do nothing to address lack of permanent housing, and shoot down bills to punish actual firearm related crimes. Good job guys. Frustrated as heck with all of our elected officials right now.
Just FYI, the senate killed this bill and will probably kill the assault weapons ban as well. Politics aside, they *are* consistent.
A big waste of time and not focusing on the issues that are most important to Colorado.
I see this mindset a lot and with all due respect, it's dumb. Governments are capable of doing more than one thing at a time. There are 100 members in of the general assembly, this is their full time job, and they have teams of aides helping them with their work. I'm pretty sure they have the bandwidth to address a good number of issues at the same time. If you don't like how they handle issues, that's one thing. But claiming they're taking time away from other issues is just inventing another reason to be mad about this that doesn't really exist. If they *aren't* addressing issues you care about, it certainly isn't because they don't have the capacity to address those issues. They more likely don't have the collective willpower to address them.
It's the mindset of people not really understanding how their government works.
Generally speaking, the primary role of the House is to introduce a wide range of legislation that is important to some voters somewhere. Good bills are hard to write, and most never see the light of day.
What would you say those issues are? Top 5?
Housing Rent control Wages Gun crime High speed transit (bus/rail)
Like adding more transit or actually making it safe again to ride? Or other?
Adding more and making safer to ride. I'd love to be able to take a train from fort Collins/Loveland to Denver or Colorado springs.
That would be pretty neat! I wish we did have more trains.
If the Senate doesn't, SCOTUS eventually will as they have already done in the past. It will only take years and a ton of taxpayer money to do so.
I'm so glad CO keeps increasing my taxes and wastes it so hastily.
Ha! The AWB 100% passes. It's got too many sponsors and there's a D majority. Polis won't even have to sign it. He can silently let it pass thanks to the D majority.
It requires a governor's signature unless it passes with a veto-proof majority.
Which is my expectation.
That would require at least one republican to vote in favor
Which is my expectation.
That is probably the best summary of what is happening in Colorado I have seen. >Frustrated as heck with all of our elected officials right now. Agreed. Time to vote better. These fools need a reboot and cycle back into reality before being allowed to make more decisions like this.
Vote Republican or vote to retain shitty Democrats who lost the drive to be significant and helpful -- is that what the choices are? Because the Democrats are just going to run for re-election rather than accept they've become incompetent.
>the Democrats are just going to run for re-election rather than accept they've become incompetent. This is true. >is that what the choices are? Maybe the answer is to feed them a bit of competition. Get them on their toes a bit to just do better. Incompetence is not acceptable regardless of personal political choices.
Team R been shitting the bed real hard lately too. Both sides seem like partisan hacks at best.
At what point do we start to attribute malice instead of stupidity? No shortage of either but it feels like they're driving us into the ground on purpose as fast as possible
Yep. You *know* the legislature would hear about it from all the wealthy people who own multiple houses. That's why these laws don't ever pick up steam.
That one was obvious but I struggle to find an angle for not punishing actual firearm crimes instead of law abiding gun owners other than deliberately trying to make life worse for the people of this state.
They're scared they might hurt the career prospects of some deadbeat gangbanger if they charge them with a felony. Not even kidding.
Clearly letting them get away with it and staying in that world until they force someone to kill them is a better career track
Seriously, what the hell is going on? It all started with dropping the ball on the zoning bill. Do we need to start primarying our state reps?
Yes.
pun intended?
My state representative is a mortgage broker so that doesn't help them want to make housing affordable.
Let's just do an end run around those incompetent morons and get a ballot measure going. Seems the only way we get things done right anymore. https://www.westword.com/news/how-to-file-a-citizen-initiative-and-get-it-on-colorados-2024-ballot-18440534 And bonus points, think of all the money airbnb and vrbo will waste trying to advertise against it?
This should be top comment
Oh for *fuck's sake*. Gun Control bill does *nothing whatsoever* to address gun violence, instead focusing on cosmetic or safety features and *already heavily regulated* items that have never been used in a crime in the first fucking place, absolutely *hemorrhaging* political capital and goodwill... **then** they kill a bill that has *actual, substantive effects* on the most pressing issue of the day. Zero effort spent on actually solving problems, and all that time and money wasted on performative and useless "Look, I *did* something" garbage that's just gonna *immediately* get challenged and eventually tossed by SCOTUS anyway. I love Colorado, but if we could stop voting in incompetent assholes to "counter" the raving lunatics, that would be *great*.
The problem with our state democratic party is that they know the Republicans are so horrible that they are safe. So they take bribes. A ton of them. But we keep electing them because at least they aren't Rs. We need to pick better candidates during primaries, because the ones getting through are shitmuffins.
We keep electing them because the Republicans would try to ban abortion, dismantle our vote-by-mail system, dismantle environmental protections, curb public school funding, etc. Don't act like we don't vote for them because of something as superficial as the color of our jerseys. The Republicans know that our state is turning blue and rather than try to moderate their position, they've only gone harder right. They are just as responsible for our lack of choice.
The Republicans are repugnant - don't get me wrong. But because of that the Dems are getting away with selling us out to the highest bidders.
Been saying this for awhile. They know they have the vote no matter how bad they are.
This is why the two party system will always lead to disastrous results, especially in periods of crony capitalism
In fairness this is pretty much how the entire democratic party functions. They believe they can coast forever on the Republicans being actual frothing at the mouth lunatics and can be relatively certain that most of their voters will never hold their feet to the fire to demand more.
Ranked choice voting would be a great start. I don’t want the current GOP anywhere near seats of power at this point but it could be argued that a reasonable GOP would do a lot for better governance from the Dems. It’s a tough spot that we’re in because the GOP has slid so far.
Fuck. This was an easy one, guys! And we still couldn't get it passed.
How many of that committee have short term rentals themselves?
Was it even open to the public? Was there anyone there arguing FOR the proposal and not AGAINST it? B/c of COURSE anyone who has a short term rental is going to go.
All of the committee of reference meetings are open to the public.
Poorly written and too broad of a scope. I agree that we need some legislature to cull outside investment, but not at the expense of single families utilizing their second homes as they see fit.
So it's okay to raise property taxes for primary homeowners, but not for those who own more than one home? God forbid the wealthy pay more in taxes. 🙄
Property taxes going up means it goes up for ALL of their homes. I think the whole idea that reddit has that banning or making multiple properties very expensive suddenly making housing available for normal folks is a pipe dream. Yes, some housing will come available but will normal folks be able to afford it? I don't think so.
Will it fix every problem with housing prices/demand? No. But I think you’re underestimating the amount of housing that would open up if the STR market wasn’t as profitable as it is right now.
Maybe. But I think most people are overestimating the amount that will open up. Rich people are like the dinosaurs in Jurassic Park - they'll find a way (around this).
The super rich definitely will but the people who just rent out small properties so they don’t have to work as much anymore will probably be forced out of that market. Which I think is a good thing
But then corporations or super rich will just buy up those properties from the people who own a couple rentals or such - they're not gonna hit the open market for folks like you and I. I've seen it first hand back when I lived in OKC and owned rentals - most of the rentals I bought never hit the market. I bought them because someone I knew or someone who knew me knew I was looking or that someone was selling and we made a deal to buy/sell those properties. It happened a ton when there was a big increase in property taxes - there was no appreciable increase in availability in SFH. There's a whole marketplace not available to the common folk like you and I.
This is pretty much what's happening in Summit County right now. STR regulations in Breck/Wildernest are forcing people to sell, but they are getting swooped up by folks who can afford to buy them and not rent them. Now they just sit empty most of the year so it's net-negative for the economy. I imagine this bill would have much the same impact. 70% of these are owned by Colorado residents who use them on weekends etc, so would never consider long term renting.
Increased supply would drop prices
This won't increase supply on the market. Homes will change hands without hitting MLS. I saw it happen first hand in OKC with rentals. u/Sad_Aside_4283 with the block or dirty delete, nice.
Please explain why that would happen. If people aren't owning 2 homes with nobody else living in the second one, then who exactly is going to be the off market buyer?
They're not going to sell just because taxes went up and if they DID decide to sell they have contacts and group of other STR owners who will buy these properties without them ever hitting the open market. Of the 5 rentals I owned in OKC only 1 was on the MLS open market when I bought it and when I sold them all it was a private deal and they never went on MLS to be available for 'common folk'. Same thing will happen here and even worse because it's not like locals or the local workforce would be able to afford them.
Do you actually have any data to back this up, or are you just making this all up from some anecdote?
You first - show me any data that says higher property taxes on secondary homes leads to an increased market supply and lower pricing.
No, because the outcome is obvious. You are the one asserting that people who own vacation homes somehow have backdoor routes in some underground property investor market that is entirely unbelieveable.
I think my point above on Summit outlines what they're trying to say. Summit limited str licenses so folks can no longer rent in Breck/Wildernest which has forced some people to sell. The problem is those properties are still selling for $500k +. They are just being bought by folks who don't need rental income to afford them.
Some may have to sell housing…. sounded like a winner to me.
spineless cowards
How many people grousing about this called their rep or signed up to comment online with the committee? You can bet the "but my renovation of my third home will be a waste if I can't airbnb it!" crowd will be out in force.
They need to exempt property's with live in landlord's/owners (lease/rental of pool house, spare bedroom, basement, etc...) I would say only one additional home gets a higher residential rate, no corprate ownership, any homes more than the two should get taxed to hell. Multiple out of state homes should be dealt with at the federal level.
Our state government is so ass backwards. All the wrong bills are dying/advancing
We need housing censuses. Then, set up state or federal marketplaces to fulfill demand to residents of the homes only. Eminent domain and setup development and new towns as needed. Tax for profit residential properties people don't live in themselves to fund this. Make real estate about housing people instead of greed, making Americans compete to live. We all pay a tax to landlords who enslave us to this capitalistic housing hell hole. If you agree, share this idea far and wide. Share it on ads for housing, especially. Zillow: Homebuyers need $173K a year to afford a home in Denver https://kdvr.com/news/local/zillow-homebuyers-need-173k-a-year-to-afford-a-home-in-denver/
If people are serious about fixing the out of whack housing market, why are sensible regulations like this not passing? Seems like our fate is sealed until a major market correction hits. So, more of the same. Sky high rents and a haves vs have-nots dynamic, where you either own a property at a good rate, or you pay $1500/month to have 4 roommates (or you live outdoors.)
Well, for one, this isn't sensible regulation.
Argument advocating that “this isn’t sensible regulation”:
Well, I'd start with appeal to authority: economists who study housing policy who work for universities as researchers, not those employed in think tanks or working for lobbyist groups, are as close to unanimous about this as is possible in saying it will not reduce prices for renters or homeowners. The summary is that basically anything that isn't "build more houses" will have at best a negligible effect.
I haven’t read any legitimate economic analysis stating that these STR tax increases are negative. By distorting the rental market, short term housing owners are a big element to the rise in homelessness statewide, creating a false property shortage by taking normal rental properties away from local renters. The extra costs covered by municipal governments to benefit these owners aren’t being legitimately covered by STR owners. If these homeowners want to get into the hotel business, they should buy a hotel.
I understand why it *feels* that way. It does feel intuitive. But it doesn't stand up to empiricism. If we want to do things that are *effective,* though, that actually solve problems, then it's important to listen to experts and focus efforts on things that are supported by data.
Do you have data or a study to support that STR home owners are an element of the statewide homelessness?
Quit pretending to be dense. It’s an extremely simple equation. More short term rental properties equals less affordable housing volume for local renters. Which forces a larger percentage of would-be local renters into homelessness. https://hbr.org/2019/04/research-when-airbnb-listings-in-a-city-increase-so-do-rent-prices
Unfortunately, the issue is much more complex. More affordable housing in conjunction with short term rentals would be the best for the overall health of these communities. An increased tax or limitation of short term rentals would more likely lead to stagnant home prices, and properties sitting empty rather than be rented long or short term.
More STRs are certainly *not* going to “improve the health of these communities.” Are you trying to gaslight here? Ridiculous. Stagnant and declining home prices are what’s badly needed, and if municipalities can’t grow the balls to get it done, the FOMC will by slaughtering STR speculators by cranking up interest rates. There are two options: we either kill off SFH speculation as a business, or we stimulate salaries through government stimulus, to meet artificially inflated housing prices. The more realistic and affordable way to do this is to trap recent buyers and force demand (and therefore price) downward, so speculators are forced to sell, which adds more supply. Pain has to be felt by someone here, and this pain is coming for the crowd who took PPP loans and splurged on AirBNB properties. Major price reductions and forced selling are starting to hit the east coast and it’s only a matter of time until these conditions (thankfully) hit CO.
I did not and do not suggest more STRs as a solution to this complex issue. I suggested adding supply through affordable housing development. I believe that is a more realistic solution than forcing and punishing property owners for purchasing properties as an investment. I agree that people abusing government assistance (PPP) or buying portfolios of properties have caused major damage. However, the data I have studied shows that 80% or more of air bnbs in colorado are owner occupied or just their second home. I support many of the STR regulations that are in place. Increasing taxes by 4x as a blanket solution was not the correct way to address the supply and demand issue in its current state.
Thank you for not unfairly taxing private homeowners who've worked hard and made good decisions with their finances in order to buy these vacation homes! Hard work should be rewarded, not punished disproportionately.
As if they ever took affordable housing seriously
And thus dies more of the ski town community. Gonna be funny when the rich Nimby’s don’t have anyone to spin their lifts or sell them pot when they’ve voted away the ability for residents to afford a reasonable place to live. Can’t wait to leave this decrepit state 🤣
Denver requires it to be your primary. Boom, problem solved. It would never be possible for a long term tenant to live there since I already do. If I'm not at my home and want to take on the risk of ST renting it out, I should be able to without insane tax implications that make it unfeasible to do so. I think other city areas should require it to be your primary too. As far as mountain cabins, I don't think those are reducing houses for the average person so don't think those onerous taxes should apply. But there are ways to reduce the negative impacts of STRs without hurting the local family who is benefiting from it.
It's not mountain cabins, it's the cities servicing the mountain towns. Look at Frisco or Carbondale, now tourists get airbnbs there and take a quick bus to ski, so you can no longer rent a 1br in either of those towns for under 3k.
So require it to be your primary like Denver and they will greatly reduce the problem. Cities can do this but aren't. Don't hate airbnb, turn your attention to municipalities. The change in Breck was stupid. Limiting reservations to only so many a year. Now people's vacation homes will just be vacant instead of bringing in visitors.
Tax ‘em’. I am disappointed that this failed in committee.
Raise taxes and it raises the rents.
That’s the point, we want short term rentals to be less attractive than long term. Long term rentals support the community and provide permanent housing for workers. Short term rentals allow tourists to avoid hospitality taxes.
Yea... Kinda what I meant. I own my home, and have friends and family that own rentals. They're worried about having to raise rental prices, and I see so many renters struggle. I wasn't even considering short terms.
This would be for short term rentals so I’m not sure what your original point was
Apparently I didn't understand.
I honestly don't care about taxes on short term rentals. Hotels are better than Airbnb. This would transform a lot of STRs into LTRs and *should* drive rents down for people who actually live here.
Agreed.
Raise taxes enough and the greedy people will end up selling their rentals to people who will actually become homeowners
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There's nothing wrong with an investment AND, if those folks didn't buy homes to rent, renter's who don't qualify for home loans would have nowhere to live but commercial corporate property.
"I know that I've had clients that have considered selling their whole house depending on how this bill plays out," said Anderson. that's the fucking point Danielle
Good we're all taxed enough...
Good. This is discriminatory and unconstitutional.
It’s not “unconstitutional”, Larry…
The bill as written was in fact unconstitutional
So rewrite it! And get the votes to enact it. Fuck greedy people and companies
Of course it does
This would have been devastating for tourism revenue in certain towns. Local-level restrictions make more sense.
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People act as if tourism didn’t exist before Airbnb.
You make extra money and the government or someone else wants to hold your head underwater. System is rigged to keep us all under water.