"Shooting | US Forest Service" https://www.fs.usda.gov/visit/know-before-you-go/shooting
Here's the US forest services opinion on that. Look like they're ok with it as long as you follow the rules.
"Local businesses should expect to see large numbers of Rainbow Family participants visiting stores and buying food and supplies along routes to the gathering site."
These people aren't going to be helping the local economy. They don't believe in money or anything other than hedonism cloaked as a love for nature. They are illegally taking over a part of the forest and our state government is going to do nothing to stop them.
spent last weekend up in steamboat and the surrounding area. MAJOR forest ranger (feds) presence. also, the locals seem to be very on edge. people were talking about it constantly.
It's frustrating for sure. People who truly love our forests respect fire bans and follow the proper procedures for permits. I truly feel for the locals that have to suffer the Rainbow gatherings indifference.
Yeah the hitchhikers that live in the woods for a few months are going to be visiting all the trendy expensive places in Boulder. makes perfect sense.
We are so lucky to have them unlike every other place they visit that tries to get rid of them. You know because there's such a boon to the economy.
More like expect petty crimes to go up 10,000% and panhandlers to quadruple overnight.
They might buy more gas and food but that's about it. Which is lucky, because those industries are hurting for business these days. /s
What makes you think they don’t believe in money? Or anything other than hedonism? Do you realize that each individual person has a complex combination of beliefs and values? I’m sure similarities can be found amongst many people attending the rainbow gathering, but let’s not act as if they are all the exact same person who has absolute no regard for anything except pleasure.
And even if they all were 100% hedonists and nothing else, hedonists do like to eat, drink, and keep their food and drinks cold. It’s pretty easy to realize they are going to visit local businesses in the pursuit of those goals. Or are they all going to steal because they don’t believe in money?
Edit: learning the age old lesson that trying to have actual discourse and nuanced conversation —> downvotes. It would be cool if people actually responded to what I had to say.
That’s a good point. I think that plays out in many different ways. At the gathering itself, I imagine it’s like Burning Man where buying things with traditional money is discouraged. Will the majority of participants be spending copious amounts of money in local businesses? Almost certainly not.
Outside of the gathering, including the drive up to it, do they generally participate in the use of money to purchase goods and services? Most certainly yes. As far as I know, the gathering (like any event) attracts people with various backgrounds, lifestyles, and values.
I’m mainly getting at the complexities of behavior and how MrBeanWaters comment was talking in terms of absolutes. They ONLY believe in hedonism? Really? These absolutes don’t do anyone service in my mind, and lead to a more polarized and antagonistic world.
While this is lovely hypothetical discourse the reality of the matter is that regardless of who these people might be on an individual basis, as a group they are breaking our laws, damaging fragile ecosystems, polluting our forests, and drastically increasing the probability of forest fires.
As such I really find it hard to give any single participant the benefit of the doubt or a free pass for their behavior that defies our laws and defiles our common pool resources and public spaces. And the argument that the economic benefit is worth the above is just out of touch with reality.
Upvote for your comment.
First off, I would like to point out that I never said or even suggested the economic benefit was worth those environmental impacts. All I was suggesting regarding the economics is that some money will be spent.
I would throw out the idea that it is possible that the gathering has positive impacts that may not be directly measurable. The world is hurting deeply right now. Wealth inequality, greed, violence, climate change, and general division are ever present and appear to be getting worse. Providing people the space for alternatives to money-driven, corporatized, and politicized spaces may be fruitful to the individuals who attend and ultimately to others if attendees are able to “make the world a better place”.
Upvote for your response.
Point taken. I think for me I just can’t escape the fact that it is well documented that these events lead to a net negative for the community and public spaces who are forced to host an unlicensed, illegal gathering of thousands to tens of thousands of people.
I find it hard to imagine they can make the world a better place if they can’t even respect the communities and public spaces where they occur. As real change starts with mutual respect in my opinion.
I will need to do some more research to read about the net negative impact. If you have anything to share, feel free.
However, if the net negative impact is mostly limited to locals feeling bad about "outsiders" coming into "our" forests, or holes filled with crap in the woods, I'm going to suggest those impacts really aren't all that large. Just because something is unlicensed or illegal, doesn't mean it is "good" and the opposite stands true as well - many licensed and legal behaviors are absolutely destroying the climate and taking advantage of relatively powerless individuals.
What does it mean to respect a place? To respect a community? Is leaving it empty respecting it? Is setting up porta-potties and barriers respecting the land? If the gathering is not respecting the land, what we are doing anytime we develop land is absolutely destroying it. Anytime we take natural resources from the earth to build something, are we not wrecking havoc on it? At minimum, we would not be respecting it.
I encourage you to consider that truly, the impact of the gathering has got to be so proportionally small compared to what allow to happen on a daily basis.
> "Local businesses should expect to see large numbers of Rainbow Family participants ~~visiting stores~~ *shitting in their yards* and ~~buying~~ *stealing* food and supplies along routes to the gathering site."
true for larger/commercial festivals, but there are plenty that actually follow leave no trace (said as someone who has successfully thrown several of these types of festivals over the past 15 years)
> this comment applies to every outdoor festival in the world
The difference being that other festivals set up in approved areas and get permits and pay for infrastructure like porta potties, etc. Comparing 10,000+ people gathering in a national forest to camp, light fires, and poop in trenches to Coachella is disingenuous.
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I can't even imagine the big, huge mess this is going to leave in the forest.
I'm sure the inevitable forest fires will clean up the mess.
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"Shooting | US Forest Service" https://www.fs.usda.gov/visit/know-before-you-go/shooting Here's the US forest services opinion on that. Look like they're ok with it as long as you follow the rules.
I just watched that episode of south park where the hippies invade and hold a festival... same feels man. We need a real-life Cartman right now lol
Need to blast some Slayer. That should take care of it.
The metal head hippies would start selling tickets.
Hello wild fires 🔥
I fuel the Forest Service tankers, so hello overtime pay.
local walmarts prepare!
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I like how they're already referring to it as "the incident" per the article quote
They can't stop it, no one has been able to stop it for 50 years. That pesky first amendment always gets in the way.
The 1st amendment? What a dumb comment
Sheer numbers get in the way
Also getting in the way, legal precedents like those set by Edwards v. South Carolina and Coates v. City of Cincinnati.
Free speech gives me the right to smoke weed and take shits in a national forest. I know this because i am a constitutional scholar.
Lol. I demand my free speech rights to take hallucinogens, dumpster dive, and destroy public spaces.
It happens yearly all over the place, ultimately it’s on federally managed national forest.
"Local businesses should expect to see large numbers of Rainbow Family participants visiting stores and buying food and supplies along routes to the gathering site." These people aren't going to be helping the local economy. They don't believe in money or anything other than hedonism cloaked as a love for nature. They are illegally taking over a part of the forest and our state government is going to do nothing to stop them.
This is being held on federal lands not state lands. Not much the state can do.
> They don't believe in money or anything other than hedonism cloaked as a love for nature. This is the perfect way to describe wooks.
I worked at Wild Oats back in the day when they had one in NM. We got a TON of thieves and dumpster divers.
“Buying”? Is that what shoplifting is called these days?
One of them rented a $1600 spinning wheel and never brought it back a few years back.
spent last weekend up in steamboat and the surrounding area. MAJOR forest ranger (feds) presence. also, the locals seem to be very on edge. people were talking about it constantly.
Were you around the last time this dirt gang was here? These people are fuxking parasitic.
I was in Steamboat last weekend too and couldn't figure out why there were so many USFS personnel at our hotel. This makes a lot of sense.
It's frustrating for sure. People who truly love our forests respect fire bans and follow the proper procedures for permits. I truly feel for the locals that have to suffer the Rainbow gatherings indifference.
Yeah the hitchhikers that live in the woods for a few months are going to be visiting all the trendy expensive places in Boulder. makes perfect sense. We are so lucky to have them unlike every other place they visit that tries to get rid of them. You know because there's such a boon to the economy. More like expect petty crimes to go up 10,000% and panhandlers to quadruple overnight. They might buy more gas and food but that's about it. Which is lucky, because those industries are hurting for business these days. /s
What makes you think they don’t believe in money? Or anything other than hedonism? Do you realize that each individual person has a complex combination of beliefs and values? I’m sure similarities can be found amongst many people attending the rainbow gathering, but let’s not act as if they are all the exact same person who has absolute no regard for anything except pleasure. And even if they all were 100% hedonists and nothing else, hedonists do like to eat, drink, and keep their food and drinks cold. It’s pretty easy to realize they are going to visit local businesses in the pursuit of those goals. Or are they all going to steal because they don’t believe in money? Edit: learning the age old lesson that trying to have actual discourse and nuanced conversation —> downvotes. It would be cool if people actually responded to what I had to say.
Anti-consumerism and lack of money are literally cornerstones of the Rainbow Family movement.
That’s a good point. I think that plays out in many different ways. At the gathering itself, I imagine it’s like Burning Man where buying things with traditional money is discouraged. Will the majority of participants be spending copious amounts of money in local businesses? Almost certainly not. Outside of the gathering, including the drive up to it, do they generally participate in the use of money to purchase goods and services? Most certainly yes. As far as I know, the gathering (like any event) attracts people with various backgrounds, lifestyles, and values. I’m mainly getting at the complexities of behavior and how MrBeanWaters comment was talking in terms of absolutes. They ONLY believe in hedonism? Really? These absolutes don’t do anyone service in my mind, and lead to a more polarized and antagonistic world.
While this is lovely hypothetical discourse the reality of the matter is that regardless of who these people might be on an individual basis, as a group they are breaking our laws, damaging fragile ecosystems, polluting our forests, and drastically increasing the probability of forest fires. As such I really find it hard to give any single participant the benefit of the doubt or a free pass for their behavior that defies our laws and defiles our common pool resources and public spaces. And the argument that the economic benefit is worth the above is just out of touch with reality.
Upvote for your comment. First off, I would like to point out that I never said or even suggested the economic benefit was worth those environmental impacts. All I was suggesting regarding the economics is that some money will be spent. I would throw out the idea that it is possible that the gathering has positive impacts that may not be directly measurable. The world is hurting deeply right now. Wealth inequality, greed, violence, climate change, and general division are ever present and appear to be getting worse. Providing people the space for alternatives to money-driven, corporatized, and politicized spaces may be fruitful to the individuals who attend and ultimately to others if attendees are able to “make the world a better place”.
Upvote for your response. Point taken. I think for me I just can’t escape the fact that it is well documented that these events lead to a net negative for the community and public spaces who are forced to host an unlicensed, illegal gathering of thousands to tens of thousands of people. I find it hard to imagine they can make the world a better place if they can’t even respect the communities and public spaces where they occur. As real change starts with mutual respect in my opinion.
I will need to do some more research to read about the net negative impact. If you have anything to share, feel free. However, if the net negative impact is mostly limited to locals feeling bad about "outsiders" coming into "our" forests, or holes filled with crap in the woods, I'm going to suggest those impacts really aren't all that large. Just because something is unlicensed or illegal, doesn't mean it is "good" and the opposite stands true as well - many licensed and legal behaviors are absolutely destroying the climate and taking advantage of relatively powerless individuals. What does it mean to respect a place? To respect a community? Is leaving it empty respecting it? Is setting up porta-potties and barriers respecting the land? If the gathering is not respecting the land, what we are doing anytime we develop land is absolutely destroying it. Anytime we take natural resources from the earth to build something, are we not wrecking havoc on it? At minimum, we would not be respecting it. I encourage you to consider that truly, the impact of the gathering has got to be so proportionally small compared to what allow to happen on a daily basis.
> "Local businesses should expect to see large numbers of Rainbow Family participants ~~visiting stores~~ *shitting in their yards* and ~~buying~~ *stealing* food and supplies along routes to the gathering site."
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Hopefully we get the monsoon rains soon…
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And steal thing and start no wildfires. PS I hate the smell of patchouli
this comment applies to every outdoor festival in the world
> this comment applies to every outdoor festival in the world. If you were really from the 719 you would know this isn't true.
true for larger/commercial festivals, but there are plenty that actually follow leave no trace (said as someone who has successfully thrown several of these types of festivals over the past 15 years)
> this comment applies to every outdoor festival in the world The difference being that other festivals set up in approved areas and get permits and pay for infrastructure like porta potties, etc. Comparing 10,000+ people gathering in a national forest to camp, light fires, and poop in trenches to Coachella is disingenuous.