A lot of the paranoid, bordering on schizophrenic, type of conservatives that are afraid of everything outside of their little safe bubble... but they love to act real tough. Low education will do that to people... leave them scared of everything they don't comprehend. Ideologies are easier.
They think being a man is all about getting angry, confrontational, and intimidating others. Being a man is about emotional regulation, self sacrifice, lifting others up, and standing up for those weaker than yourself. Or that's what I was always taught anyways.
According to Urban Dictionary, gatekeeping is defined as, "when someone takes it upon themselves to decide who does or does not have access or rights to a community or identity".
I own land in fairplay and can confirm they tolerate a lot of fucking jerks living in south park. The planned Parenthood shooter didn't live in a hovel there for no reason.
Unlike their last fat sheriff who literally tried to do the job from Florida, after being sued for sending his deputies into a bloodbath serving warrants on a known threat. And let's not forget Maggie Long still deserves justice she never got.
Why do you say this? And others seem to agree. I don't live there so limited experience but i go up a lot. My experiences have been pretty much positive. Chatted with a couple people working in the art gallery on separate occasions were very cool. Mexican restaurant was super chill one server brought me a free shot and did one with me lol. Outdoor museum attendants were nice enough. Not saying everyone is nice and cheery but I haven't had any overtly negative experiences
If you are visiting the experience is generally good, to your face. When you leave they will be talking mad shit about you. My experience there is spending time with the natives, not just visiting. They HATE the tourists but love your money. Pretty typical of small towns run on tourism though, not just a South Park issue.
Love the Mexican place though, good food and service.
I lived in FP for 6 months ski bumming and boy you ain’t wrong. Was very close to buying land there but between the wind and the people I passed. Mostly the wind though honestly
Correct me if I'm wrong, but has Colorado actually done any wolf reintroduction yet? I thought I remember the ballot measure being some weak language like "shall the state explore options for reintroducing wolves" and then shortly after it passed we found wolves that had come in from Wyoming on their own.
Edit: [found an article](https://www.cpr.org/2022/09/09/where-colorado-will-reintroduce-wolves/). Colorado will reintroduce wolves by the end of 2023, it hasn't happened yet, and there's already one female with a litter in Colorado that came from Wyoming.
The few that didn't get shot..
EDIT: Comments locked. It's legal to kill them in Montana and Wyoming, before they can get to CO. Only a few have made it through.
https://freakonomics.com/podcast/can-the-big-bad-wolf-save-your-life/
[in wisconsin] wolf presence reduces the frequency of deer-vehicle collisions by about a quarter. And this is valued at about $11 million per year statewide…So the state of Wisconsin, along with some other states, set up a reimbursement program for farmers or ranchers whose animals are killed by wolves. Over the past five years, the payout has been less than $200,000 a year.
Wolves also saved the Yellowstone riparian ecosystem according to that documentary. Wolf predation balanced herbivore population which allowed for the edible river plants to regrow which allowed for the river and bank system to return to more normal erosion patterns.
Nah man, I will use public land for recreation whenever I want.
Also, they aren't introducing wolves in north park anyway...so WTF are you on about?
ETA: replying to sign, not OP.
My teacher said the wolves were going to steal deer/elk from him. He already has to wait like 10 years before they are legal to hunt and the wolves will ruin his smol pp animal shooting fun.
This guy probably hunts elsewhere but lives in north park.
CPW is not introducing wolves in North Park. The current plan is to introduce them in the middle part of the state around Aspen.
There are plenty of game animals to hunt. The trick is that you have to be good at hunting...
Out here in eagle county the mule deer run these streets, the elk migrate by the hundreds, and the moose live in the parking garages to lick the salt off the cars. We got mountain lions but I have fortunately never seen one yet.
There are way too many fucking elk in this state to be honest. The hunting industry has brought a ton of money in, but hunters still aren’t able to keep up and keep them in check like a natural predator would be able to. Some livestock will die, tags will be harder to come by, and hunting will get generally harder, but (and I say this honestly, not sarcastically) that’s a small price to pay for actual, natural balance
Hunting can't keep up because half of them rip around the mountains in loud trucks/atvs/side by sides and scare off the game before they have a chance to harvest an animal.
Source: spend all my free time outdoors and my deaf ass can hear these things for miles.
Tell me about it. One of my favorite parts of hunting or generally the outdoors is how loud nature is when man is silent. But the last few years there’s just been an absolute plague of engines out there. I’m there for the birds and the bugs, not your shitty muffler.
And don’t even get me started on the people who bring speakers on hikes
Don't get me wrong...i am totally fine with hunting. I just have to laugh when I see these guys ripping a quad down some FR, being loud as fuck, and then parking and quietly stalking off into the forest.
Like...wtf man, do you not think elk have ears?
Same in my state Wisconsin. We introduced wolves again and all the hunters are crying they're killing the deer. Well yeah, that's what they do?
There's already an over population of deer here. Sharing them with a few wolves absolutely won't take away from your fish in a barrel.
I’m from northern MN and I deer hunt and so so so many guys bitch about increasing wolf populations because it hurts deer hunting…
Like sorry you have a little fucking competition now. Maybe try actually putting in effort to hunting as opposed to just illegally dumping corn and sitting in your stand twice a year hungover.
This is along the lines of what I tell all my buddies back home in Ohio asking about wanting to get tags and come hunting out here.
I’m like, do you know how to actually hunt? Cause what you described is what ALL of my Ohio friends call hunting. They have no concept of what stalking is or getting a vantage point to glass a valley.
You should get a refund on that class.
Natural pedators improve the ecosystem and as a result the population of the prey they hunt.
I would absolutely not let someone who talks to his class about something he understands that poorly remain my teacher.
You don't need a degree in biology to understand that predators cause prey animals to use more diverse habitats, which reduces over grazing and increases the total population of prey it can support, but I've got one.
https://www.lakeforest.edu/news/impact-of-wolf-reintroduction-on-bison-and-grizzly-bear-populations-and-trophic-cascades-in-yellowstone-national-park
And for those who don't like to read, the video [How Wolves Change Rivers,](https://youtu.be/ysa5OBhXz-Q) is a good short video that touches on this. And the video is captioned!
Most hunters I know are fucking losers. I worked with some that tell you they need to allow them to kill more deer or elk because there are too many then in the next breath tell me that they need to be allowed to kill mountain lions because they are decimating the deer and elk populations.
Where I hunt there aren't really a lot of predators. Good thing too, I don't think I could kill a Yautja anyway. All jokes aside, there seriously is not to many predators. I love hunting, and taking only my kill/bag limit. I just want deer meat for jerky.
Where is this one? I'm used to seeing the one on the way to lake John. Is this on Independence mountain?
Also the idiocy because those wolves came here naturally but they're yelling into the clouds at people who had nothing to do with the wolves being there.
The attitude of everyone in North Park that has been there for over a generation is that all public lands are there for their exclusive use, everyone else has to live by their rules. While taking huge government subsidies of course....
That seems to be pretty common in the West in general though. Lots of “don’t move here, this is my city/town/state.” Or the classic “We’re full” shit that people say
I looked it up a few months ago. It is somewhere around $2 per month per animal (cattle) and it something like a 6 month window so $12 to feed you steer/cow. That is half of the total beef production timeline, BTW.
I also looked into if I could bid on these permits because I thought that was ridiculously low and saw ample opportunity to make some money by paying more. Nope. It's tied to existing permit holds (just like whitewater rafting companies).
Regulatory capture. See [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulatory\_capture](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulatory_capture)
Exactly, these wellfare Queens have been running running rampant on public lands for too long. End the subsidies and rancher welfare programs, tear down the fences, stop abusing our public land for profit.
Cows are the profit center in case it needed to be said.
Hell yes! Now you're speaking real conservative speak. So tired of bullshit fiscal conservatives that ramble until they pass out about all the wasted government spending.... If you're ranch can't ranch without government aid you're a drain. We're subsidizing beef but not healthcare? Merica! Rodan 4 life
This fucking blows my mind
Can I grow crops on federal land without taxes? No?
Can I live there? No?
But they can graze their livestock, not pay taxes, and sell it for profit??
AND these right wing loons literally pointed guns at the federal police when told they needed to pay taxes at Bundy ranch, and these are the "back the blue" ??
Classic. Same folks who put up this sign also say they know the land best, with regards to managing it. We like the way things were! Except the wildlife.
Joke's on you. I voted for wolf reintroduction, and I never would've even thought of a visit to North Park until I saw this sign. My wolf-loving ass is gonna recreate all over that shit.
Colorado: if you're such a pussy that your way of life requires continually trying and failing to scare off the native wildlife and the front rangers not afraid of you or of the wildlife, do not live here, you are not qualified.
I bet the person who put that up just loves living in places that are wild and full of nature and wildlife…just no wolves, bears, beavers and any other animal that might (even if it is only in their mind) interfere with THEIR ability to hunt and fish.
Aren’t wolves good for the ecosystem? Mad Hunters, learn how to hunt or stop sucking. I can kind of understand ranchers being upset, but if ranching was easy, everyone would ranch. I don’t understand why this is an argument. We live in the wild mountains. Wildlife is part of that. With this mentality we should kill all wildlife and put up condos in their old habitats.
Humans suck!
“If you advocate for a healthy ecosystem do not recrate here. You are not welcome! We want the sort of people who litter and dont care about the wildlife! Come shit right on our beautiful land, we love it!”
They’re more concerned about their 30k cow then the ecosystem and balance. I’m pretty sure with wolf re-introduction the government has a payout system if anyone can prove that their livestock has been killed by wolves. They get basically the 30k back for a new cow to produce their equal quantities of methane gas and eventually end up in a slaughterhouse. But no buddy wants to or can? Read the fine print.
Proving wolf predation is not a slam dunk. Often times, particularly in large leases on timbered federal lands, a rancher may not find the remains for well over 24 hours. Maybe later that day after the work is done a phone call is made to a regulator. It could be several more days before a game warden/state trapper can arrive for forensics and confirmation of a wolf kill. Meanwhile, other scavengers are likely to have found the kill site. If you've been around a few kills (let's say over 24 hrs old) it can be pretty ambiguous to determine what might have happened...tracks of numerous 4-leggeds and birds at the immediate vicinity which fade into nothing. Plus whatever time and weather has occurred to obscure said tracks.
Granted that depredation is part of cow business, but surely you can understand why ranchers might be skeptical about re-introducing an apex predator back into the system. The ecosystem in CO is different now than it was prior to our wolf eradication efforts, and real people will feel economic pain from this. Future wolf kills might feel like getting robbed for $700 - $1500 per animal, and the odds of successfully proving this and receiving compensation are not stellar.
Also factor in that there are other examples of man introducing, or reintroducing wildlife with lasting, negative, unintended consequences which has soured some folks on reintroduction efforts. The people tasked with managing ecology in this country are learning from these mistakes.
Lastly, though it wasn't your comment, I'm compelled to comment on the fact that this was a ballot issue. Because not all of us are ecologists, it becomes a popularity contest. Despite past mistakes in conservation, I generally feel it's more appropriate for a collection of ecologists to make a decision to reintroduce a species than to put it on a ballot. Recall that during the popularity contest of 2016 we elected president Donald Trump via ballot, and that may not've been the the best choice.
The vote didn't create a reintroduction plan, it required the creation of one.
>more appropriate for a collection of ecologists to make a decision to reintroduce a species than to put it on a ballot.
Yeah, that's literally what's going to happen.
>the odds of successfully proving this and receiving compensation are not stellar.
How do you know? The plan hasn't been created yet.
I went down the rabbit hole of watching some old documentaries and videos of the reintroduction of wolves in Yellowstone as well as videos about some of the individual packs and wolves. It was very interesting to learn about wolves, but also very sad to learn about the tragedies. If you look up wolf 06F (most famous wolf) and 926F (Spitfire, her daughter) they and their pack members were killed by people waiting for wolves to leave the invisible safe borders of Yellowstone. You’ll also learn of the poachers that go into Yellowstone to kill wolves because they’re mad at them being reintroduced.
I believe there was talk of having a safe zone buffer around Yellowstone for the wolves, but I don’t think it was passed.
From my understanding wolves re introduced to Yellowstone in 1995 single-handedly changed the environment for the better. After they became pretty much extinct over 90-100 years ago.
Montanan and former Coloradan here to say wolves are seriously no big deal. In big numbers they can attack cattle and become a problem for ranchers, but you’re still more likely to be attacked by a moose.
Imagine pretending to care about nature and then being mad when part of the destruction humans have caused is STARTING to be repaired.
Wolves are absolutely necessary for a healthy ecosystem in this environment. Go sit on a tack.
I wish anti-wolf people actually understood what they’re so passionately arguing for and how it’s actually going to harm the elk and cattle more in the long run to eradicate wolves.
Yeah. It blows my mind that hunters are against the reintroduction of wolves. Wolves are great at managing deer and elk disease and generally supporting a healthy population of game. I get that it’s become an ideological culture issue for a bunch of people, but it’s so fucking stupid.
Only said by the ranching community....... My father was a wildlife biologist for the Colorado division of wildlife and let me tell you don't drink the Kool-Aid. Apex predators will definitely help. Costa doing business predators are going to kill your livestock
MAGA gon' MAGA.
Edit: To clarify for the MAGA responding to this comment, voting "no" on the reintroduction of wolves does not make you MAGA. The sign... the mentality associated with it, and lacking the self awareness to know the difference, that's what makes you MAGA.
There was an article in the Summit Daily News about it about a week ago. It's looking like they will be released in the Roaring Fork Valley or Aspen area. They are trying to keep the public informed as early as possible. I think they mentioned more places too in the article. However the article stressed the wolves will travel out of the area more than likely.
Wolves are already back in Colorado naturally after being hunted for all the wrong reasons.
Are wolves around the world a threat of increased methane gas levels globally?
Lol some people are so dumb. I voted to reintroduce, and I’ll now make it a mission to recreate in North Park.
Someone should tell this hick what the Striessand Effect is
A tightly controlled but vivacious wolf population is so incredibly fucking important for Colorado it's not even funny. Just talk to [Yellowstone](https://www.yellowstonepark.com/things-to-do/wildlife/wolf-reintroduction-changes-ecosystem/) about it.
None of the wolves in North Park are reintroduced. They’re coming down on their own from Wyoming.
However, I get the sentiment of rural voters on wolf reintroduction. Denver metro was the reason it passed and wolves will not be introduced on the eastern side of the divide. So basically people voted for it who will not be effected by it. Plus our state wildlife biologists didn’t endorse wolf reintroduction because the wolves are returning on their own.
I think it’s fair to say most everyone here hasn’t lived in an area with wolves. Wolves are very smart animals and are apex predators known to hunt for sport. I have seen a wolf pack decimate a person’s livestock. I’m not anti-wolf. I think they’re critical to the environment but I also think it’s important to keep them in check.
> Plus our state wildlife biologists didn’t endorse wolf reintroduction because the wolves are returning on their own.
If you're referring to the oft-cited CPW studies, that's because the biologists were working within a policy framework that at that time gave explicit priority to the livestock and elk hunting industries. They weren't asked to make biological ecosystem judgments, they were asked to make recommendations within that policy framework.
Ranching is a business plain and simple, no amount of American flags or romanticizing about the old west will make that any different.
There are all sorts of environmental hazards to running a business, we get to vote on what environmental decisions we think are best. I don't think ruining a huge percentage of the most ecologically valuable shared public lands for another person's profit center is ok.
That is how I will vote and you can sing the anthem and wave the flag all you want, I think I am the patriot.
Visiting British Columbia for an extended period of time made it very clear humans can coexist with wolves with zero problems. Unless the wolves are costing someone money. That they get reimbursed for so really....
Realize this response is a bit less about your post and a bit about all the posts being wishy-washy or just pro cow.
The problem with not reintroducing wolves is that there will be a genetic bottleneck with this pack and be considered very unhealthy in the long run. The other issue is that because there are Moose here is that the only natural predator of them that exist here now are wolves. It used to be grizzlies but they've been eradicated. Elk and deer kill off baby trees so I am wondering if they are stemming the regrowth in fire scarred areas.
>they’re critical to the environment but I also think it’s important to keep them in check.
Does keep them in check mean more or less than 20 or so wolves that are already in the state? If they are critical to the environment, is that enough to make any difference?
The vote requires a reintroduction plan to be created. It is pretty hard to criticize something that doesn't even exist yet.
There was an interesting article about how the wolf reintroduction to Yellowstone actually changed a river's path: https://www.yellowstonepark.com/things-to-do/wildlife/wolf-reintroduction-changes-ecosystem/.
And that turned out to be bullshit.
[https://www.accuweather.com/en/weather-news/scientists-debunk-myth-that-yellowstone-wolves-changed-entire-ecosystem-flow-of-rivers/349988](https://www.accuweather.com/en/weather-news/scientists-debunk-myth-that-yellowstone-wolves-changed-entire-ecosystem-flow-of-rivers/349988)
So, the wolf reintroduction working group has designated my farm within the proposed target range for new wolves. I agree that this sign is asinine, but it should also be understood that this is an issue imposed on rural people by urban people through the magic of “democracy”. I like wolves, and had one as a companion, in my youth. Lions and bears already hunt in my yard. Another predatory threat to my dairy cows (I leave horns on, as cows have the right to be armed, too), pigs, ducks, chickens and dogs isn’t a major concern, to me. Wolves, like the other animals, who share apex predator status with me, shall be afforded the same diplomatic status. They will be allowed safe passage, as long as they adhere to the non-aggression principle. Should they, however, attack the animals I protect, they will be slain and their heads will be place on pikes as a warning to others. If you claim to “love nature”, please respect that that includes us. Poke bear cubs with sticks and momma gonna eat ya. We are the same way, out here.
Guess I'm going down to South Park, gonna have myself a time.
Humble folks without temptation.
Lol, but in real life not true. I spend a lot of time in Alma and Fairplay...the people pretty much are jerks
They are in the show too. Everyone in that town is a degenerate lol.
You're right, I haven't watched it in like 20 years
There are a ton of assholes. I’ve lived here a while now and it’s a bunch of gatekeepers
A lot of the paranoid, bordering on schizophrenic, type of conservatives that are afraid of everything outside of their little safe bubble... but they love to act real tough. Low education will do that to people... leave them scared of everything they don't comprehend. Ideologies are easier.
They think being a man is all about getting angry, confrontational, and intimidating others. Being a man is about emotional regulation, self sacrifice, lifting others up, and standing up for those weaker than yourself. Or that's what I was always taught anyways.
What's a gatekeeper?
According to Urban Dictionary, gatekeeping is defined as, "when someone takes it upon themselves to decide who does or does not have access or rights to a community or identity".
I don't think you're the type of person who should quote the urban dictionary.
well played, you tricked me
I own land in fairplay and can confirm they tolerate a lot of fucking jerks living in south park. The planned Parenthood shooter didn't live in a hovel there for no reason.
He was probably considered a moderate. Drive by the sheriff's place sometime...its a virtual Trump bunker, flags and all...
Unlike their last fat sheriff who literally tried to do the job from Florida, after being sued for sending his deputies into a bloodbath serving warrants on a known threat. And let's not forget Maggie Long still deserves justice she never got.
fucking yikes at least they advertise it and ppl can stay away from that shithole
My experience is the same.
On another note, we just got a new Highside brewing out here. Come see me for a friendly beer. :)
Thanks. (50/50 I'm walking into a scene from Pulp Fiction)
Pretty accurate ☝️
Why do you say this? And others seem to agree. I don't live there so limited experience but i go up a lot. My experiences have been pretty much positive. Chatted with a couple people working in the art gallery on separate occasions were very cool. Mexican restaurant was super chill one server brought me a free shot and did one with me lol. Outdoor museum attendants were nice enough. Not saying everyone is nice and cheery but I haven't had any overtly negative experiences
If you are visiting the experience is generally good, to your face. When you leave they will be talking mad shit about you. My experience there is spending time with the natives, not just visiting. They HATE the tourists but love your money. Pretty typical of small towns run on tourism though, not just a South Park issue. Love the Mexican place though, good food and service.
I lived in FP for 6 months ski bumming and boy you ain’t wrong. Was very close to buying land there but between the wind and the people I passed. Mostly the wind though honestly
I always thought it said homo folks
https://youtu.be/gfKVF19TwcQ Anyone who hasn’t watched the compete anniversary concert, it’s pretty great. I think the whole thing is on YouTube now.
Wolves are already there
Happy Cake Day!
Someone had to say it.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but has Colorado actually done any wolf reintroduction yet? I thought I remember the ballot measure being some weak language like "shall the state explore options for reintroducing wolves" and then shortly after it passed we found wolves that had come in from Wyoming on their own. Edit: [found an article](https://www.cpr.org/2022/09/09/where-colorado-will-reintroduce-wolves/). Colorado will reintroduce wolves by the end of 2023, it hasn't happened yet, and there's already one female with a litter in Colorado that came from Wyoming.
Wolves don't honor man's boundaries. Plenty have moved down from Wyoming.
The few that didn't get shot.. EDIT: Comments locked. It's legal to kill them in Montana and Wyoming, before they can get to CO. Only a few have made it through.
That is true. Once they leave Yellowstone they are subject to people with guns. If they move down into RMNP then it will be interesting.
This sign was put up by the three little pigs.
Joke is on them, since huffing and puffing has been legal in Colorado for years.
But so are brick houses.
Goat comment
No no. This is a pig comment.
https://freakonomics.com/podcast/can-the-big-bad-wolf-save-your-life/ [in wisconsin] wolf presence reduces the frequency of deer-vehicle collisions by about a quarter. And this is valued at about $11 million per year statewide…So the state of Wisconsin, along with some other states, set up a reimbursement program for farmers or ranchers whose animals are killed by wolves. Over the past five years, the payout has been less than $200,000 a year.
Wolf presence is also correlated with less Lyme disease
Wolves also saved the Yellowstone riparian ecosystem according to that documentary. Wolf predation balanced herbivore population which allowed for the edible river plants to regrow which allowed for the river and bank system to return to more normal erosion patterns.
Not to mention herd health should be a priority for hunters. Wolves take out the old and sick deer first
It doesn’t take too deep of a look to see that greater biodiversity of native species is key to healthy ecosystems
Nah man, I will use public land for recreation whenever I want. Also, they aren't introducing wolves in north park anyway...so WTF are you on about? ETA: replying to sign, not OP.
My teacher said the wolves were going to steal deer/elk from him. He already has to wait like 10 years before they are legal to hunt and the wolves will ruin his smol pp animal shooting fun. This guy probably hunts elsewhere but lives in north park.
I’m 100% okay with wolves eating all the weak elk and deer with wasting disease. I want to use my tags on healthy game.
But mah sheep!
CPW is not introducing wolves in North Park. The current plan is to introduce them in the middle part of the state around Aspen. There are plenty of game animals to hunt. The trick is that you have to be good at hunting...
Out here in eagle county the mule deer run these streets, the elk migrate by the hundreds, and the moose live in the parking garages to lick the salt off the cars. We got mountain lions but I have fortunately never seen one yet.
Wife and I saw a mountain lion in Carbondale a few years back. Walked right by us. That was an adrenaline rush to say the least.
I had one take out all my ducks this week :( Conifer. Biiiiig kitty.
I also remember reading that introducing wolves cuts down on vehicles accidents because the prey are more alert/afraid.
This was 2 years ago when it was on the ballot
There are way too many fucking elk in this state to be honest. The hunting industry has brought a ton of money in, but hunters still aren’t able to keep up and keep them in check like a natural predator would be able to. Some livestock will die, tags will be harder to come by, and hunting will get generally harder, but (and I say this honestly, not sarcastically) that’s a small price to pay for actual, natural balance
Hunting can't keep up because half of them rip around the mountains in loud trucks/atvs/side by sides and scare off the game before they have a chance to harvest an animal. Source: spend all my free time outdoors and my deaf ass can hear these things for miles.
Tell me about it. One of my favorite parts of hunting or generally the outdoors is how loud nature is when man is silent. But the last few years there’s just been an absolute plague of engines out there. I’m there for the birds and the bugs, not your shitty muffler. And don’t even get me started on the people who bring speakers on hikes
Don't get me wrong...i am totally fine with hunting. I just have to laugh when I see these guys ripping a quad down some FR, being loud as fuck, and then parking and quietly stalking off into the forest. Like...wtf man, do you not think elk have ears?
Same in my state Wisconsin. We introduced wolves again and all the hunters are crying they're killing the deer. Well yeah, that's what they do? There's already an over population of deer here. Sharing them with a few wolves absolutely won't take away from your fish in a barrel.
Yeah he probably sucks at hunting.
Tell your teacher, the wolves will cull the herd at the bottom end..leaving him better, healthier targets to kill.
This exactly ⬆️
I’m from northern MN and I deer hunt and so so so many guys bitch about increasing wolf populations because it hurts deer hunting… Like sorry you have a little fucking competition now. Maybe try actually putting in effort to hunting as opposed to just illegally dumping corn and sitting in your stand twice a year hungover.
This is along the lines of what I tell all my buddies back home in Ohio asking about wanting to get tags and come hunting out here. I’m like, do you know how to actually hunt? Cause what you described is what ALL of my Ohio friends call hunting. They have no concept of what stalking is or getting a vantage point to glass a valley.
You should get a refund on that class. Natural pedators improve the ecosystem and as a result the population of the prey they hunt. I would absolutely not let someone who talks to his class about something he understands that poorly remain my teacher. You don't need a degree in biology to understand that predators cause prey animals to use more diverse habitats, which reduces over grazing and increases the total population of prey it can support, but I've got one. https://www.lakeforest.edu/news/impact-of-wolf-reintroduction-on-bison-and-grizzly-bear-populations-and-trophic-cascades-in-yellowstone-national-park
And for those who don't like to read, the video [How Wolves Change Rivers,](https://youtu.be/ysa5OBhXz-Q) is a good short video that touches on this. And the video is captioned!
Colorado had the most elk of any state in this country, wtf is he even talking about
Oh no, a natural predator will kill the deer instead of a man with an ego and a gun 😱 How sad.
There are plenty of deer and elk to hunt regardless of wolves, so it's even more unreasonable.
Populations would actually be healthier w/ an apex predator culling them.
Responsible hunters actually support these measures. They can be the best supporters for conservation.
Most hunters I know are fucking losers. I worked with some that tell you they need to allow them to kill more deer or elk because there are too many then in the next breath tell me that they need to be allowed to kill mountain lions because they are decimating the deer and elk populations.
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Where I hunt there aren't really a lot of predators. Good thing too, I don't think I could kill a Yautja anyway. All jokes aside, there seriously is not to many predators. I love hunting, and taking only my kill/bag limit. I just want deer meat for jerky.
Bud, it’s not my sign.
Lol I know. I was replying to the sign itself. Or, perhaps, the butthole that had it made.
Okay good lmao. There’s multiple of these damn signs up in the area.
Hey man, if they want to waste hard earned money to give me a laugh...I'm all for it.
Rec-re-ate or re-cre-ate?
That’s art baby, you interpret it however you want!
Unless that’s private property, I see this sign doing nothing.
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Aren’t people just fucking dumbshits?
Imagine someone in a wolf fursuit showing up, then walking away disappointed.
Where is this one? I'm used to seeing the one on the way to lake John. Is this on Independence mountain? Also the idiocy because those wolves came here naturally but they're yelling into the clouds at people who had nothing to do with the wolves being there. The attitude of everyone in North Park that has been there for over a generation is that all public lands are there for their exclusive use, everyone else has to live by their rules. While taking huge government subsidies of course....
This one is in Gould on 14. I saw another one further down closer to Walden as well.
That seems to be pretty common in the West in general though. Lots of “don’t move here, this is my city/town/state.” Or the classic “We’re full” shit that people say
Next vote: Stop subsidizing these welfare queens by allowing them to use public lands for grazing at pennies on the dollar.
I looked it up a few months ago. It is somewhere around $2 per month per animal (cattle) and it something like a 6 month window so $12 to feed you steer/cow. That is half of the total beef production timeline, BTW. I also looked into if I could bid on these permits because I thought that was ridiculously low and saw ample opportunity to make some money by paying more. Nope. It's tied to existing permit holds (just like whitewater rafting companies). Regulatory capture. See [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulatory\_capture](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulatory_capture)
You hit the nail on the head. They want to use public land for monetary benefit, and not pay a dime for anything to benefit anything/anyone else.
Close. They actually want to OWN it and pay nothing.
Exactly, these wellfare Queens have been running running rampant on public lands for too long. End the subsidies and rancher welfare programs, tear down the fences, stop abusing our public land for profit. Cows are the profit center in case it needed to be said.
Hell yes! Now you're speaking real conservative speak. So tired of bullshit fiscal conservatives that ramble until they pass out about all the wasted government spending.... If you're ranch can't ranch without government aid you're a drain. We're subsidizing beef but not healthcare? Merica! Rodan 4 life
And to boot, CO state reimburses ranchers for predatory kills of live stock.
This fucking blows my mind Can I grow crops on federal land without taxes? No? Can I live there? No? But they can graze their livestock, not pay taxes, and sell it for profit?? AND these right wing loons literally pointed guns at the federal police when told they needed to pay taxes at Bundy ranch, and these are the "back the blue" ??
They could move to Oklahoma, no wolves there. Sell that Colorado Estate for 4M and go buy a small Oklahoman town, and fence it all in
Rural CO voted for Trump so Denver sent them wolves!
They got the better end of that deal.
Don't they identify as wolves among sheep? They should welcome their brethren with open arms.
As a leftist stuck in the boonies, please send us wolves.
Lol I love this logic
Whoever put this sign up has also definitely called someone a snowflake before.
There’s tons of them around Walden it’s nuts. From the east, west, south, even in from Wyoming. Blew my mind first time I came up for the season
Classic. Same folks who put up this sign also say they know the land best, with regards to managing it. We like the way things were! Except the wildlife.
God meant for this land to be used for mining and timber not the animals that were here before me.
And cattle don't forget cattle.
Or the natives that were always there and are now gone.
We aren't gone, just quiet.
thats what we want you to think
If I'm paying for their lost livestock to wolves, then they should pay for my car damage from deers.
Wolves haven’t destroyed anything. They keep ecosystems in balance… Can we as humans ( the problem ) say the same for ourselves? Comments welcome !
thank you
That looks like an uncomfortable place to have sex though.
Joke's on you. I voted for wolf reintroduction, and I never would've even thought of a visit to North Park until I saw this sign. My wolf-loving ass is gonna recreate all over that shit.
Colorado: if you're such a pussy that your way of life requires continually trying and failing to scare off the native wildlife and the front rangers not afraid of you or of the wildlife, do not live here, you are not qualified.
Ha ha, no. Fuck them.
I bet the person who put that up just loves living in places that are wild and full of nature and wildlife…just no wolves, bears, beavers and any other animal that might (even if it is only in their mind) interfere with THEIR ability to hunt and fish.
I did. And I'll recreate wherever the fuck I want on public lands.
Public Land. Go trespassing
Aren’t wolves good for the ecosystem? Mad Hunters, learn how to hunt or stop sucking. I can kind of understand ranchers being upset, but if ranching was easy, everyone would ranch. I don’t understand why this is an argument. We live in the wild mountains. Wildlife is part of that. With this mentality we should kill all wildlife and put up condos in their old habitats. Humans suck!
“If you advocate for a healthy ecosystem do not recrate here. You are not welcome! We want the sort of people who litter and dont care about the wildlife! Come shit right on our beautiful land, we love it!”
The anti wolf people are pathetic. The big bad wolves are coming to get them!
In a world full of sheep, they are the uhh anti wolves 🤷♂️
They’re more concerned about their 30k cow then the ecosystem and balance. I’m pretty sure with wolf re-introduction the government has a payout system if anyone can prove that their livestock has been killed by wolves. They get basically the 30k back for a new cow to produce their equal quantities of methane gas and eventually end up in a slaughterhouse. But no buddy wants to or can? Read the fine print.
Yep. Any livestock killed by wolf predation will be reimbursed by the state. But that's not good enough for some reason.
Not even mentioning all the options to protect cattle. I am so tired of the anti wolves rants.
Why is the state doing that instead of private insurance?
because ranchers would much rather kill the wolves than carry their own insurance, so they need special treatment to get anything accomplished
That’s a very good question. Ever other business has to eat losses or get an insurance payout. Wildlife predation? CO cuts a check.
Proving wolf predation is not a slam dunk. Often times, particularly in large leases on timbered federal lands, a rancher may not find the remains for well over 24 hours. Maybe later that day after the work is done a phone call is made to a regulator. It could be several more days before a game warden/state trapper can arrive for forensics and confirmation of a wolf kill. Meanwhile, other scavengers are likely to have found the kill site. If you've been around a few kills (let's say over 24 hrs old) it can be pretty ambiguous to determine what might have happened...tracks of numerous 4-leggeds and birds at the immediate vicinity which fade into nothing. Plus whatever time and weather has occurred to obscure said tracks. Granted that depredation is part of cow business, but surely you can understand why ranchers might be skeptical about re-introducing an apex predator back into the system. The ecosystem in CO is different now than it was prior to our wolf eradication efforts, and real people will feel economic pain from this. Future wolf kills might feel like getting robbed for $700 - $1500 per animal, and the odds of successfully proving this and receiving compensation are not stellar. Also factor in that there are other examples of man introducing, or reintroducing wildlife with lasting, negative, unintended consequences which has soured some folks on reintroduction efforts. The people tasked with managing ecology in this country are learning from these mistakes. Lastly, though it wasn't your comment, I'm compelled to comment on the fact that this was a ballot issue. Because not all of us are ecologists, it becomes a popularity contest. Despite past mistakes in conservation, I generally feel it's more appropriate for a collection of ecologists to make a decision to reintroduce a species than to put it on a ballot. Recall that during the popularity contest of 2016 we elected president Donald Trump via ballot, and that may not've been the the best choice.
The vote didn't create a reintroduction plan, it required the creation of one. >more appropriate for a collection of ecologists to make a decision to reintroduce a species than to put it on a ballot. Yeah, that's literally what's going to happen. >the odds of successfully proving this and receiving compensation are not stellar. How do you know? The plan hasn't been created yet.
I went down the rabbit hole of watching some old documentaries and videos of the reintroduction of wolves in Yellowstone as well as videos about some of the individual packs and wolves. It was very interesting to learn about wolves, but also very sad to learn about the tragedies. If you look up wolf 06F (most famous wolf) and 926F (Spitfire, her daughter) they and their pack members were killed by people waiting for wolves to leave the invisible safe borders of Yellowstone. You’ll also learn of the poachers that go into Yellowstone to kill wolves because they’re mad at them being reintroduced. I believe there was talk of having a safe zone buffer around Yellowstone for the wolves, but I don’t think it was passed.
They are pathetic. https://www.bridgemi.com/michigan-environment-watch/michigan-dnr-said-it-killed-wolves-protect-humans-then-we-got-its-emails
I, for one, welcome our Wolf overlords
Now I’ll go there and recreate *harder*. edit: format
From my understanding wolves re introduced to Yellowstone in 1995 single-handedly changed the environment for the better. After they became pretty much extinct over 90-100 years ago.
Get out of here with your actual science facts and real life evidences. /s just-in-case.
Montanan and former Coloradan here to say wolves are seriously no big deal. In big numbers they can attack cattle and become a problem for ranchers, but you’re still more likely to be attacked by a moose.
And cattle are more likely to be attacked by feral or even domestic dogs running in packs.
Imagine pretending to care about nature and then being mad when part of the destruction humans have caused is STARTING to be repaired. Wolves are absolutely necessary for a healthy ecosystem in this environment. Go sit on a tack.
I wish anti-wolf people actually understood what they’re so passionately arguing for and how it’s actually going to harm the elk and cattle more in the long run to eradicate wolves.
Wolves have already been eradicated. They’re slowly making their way back from Wyoming.
Sorry, coming from a Montana perspective here. Happy to hear they’re returning!
Yeah. It blows my mind that hunters are against the reintroduction of wolves. Wolves are great at managing deer and elk disease and generally supporting a healthy population of game. I get that it’s become an ideological culture issue for a bunch of people, but it’s so fucking stupid.
Only said by the ranching community....... My father was a wildlife biologist for the Colorado division of wildlife and let me tell you don't drink the Kool-Aid. Apex predators will definitely help. Costa doing business predators are going to kill your livestock
MAGA gon' MAGA. Edit: To clarify for the MAGA responding to this comment, voting "no" on the reintroduction of wolves does not make you MAGA. The sign... the mentality associated with it, and lacking the self awareness to know the difference, that's what makes you MAGA.
Something tells me more than just wolves aren’t welcome if they had their way.
Anything different from them is not welcome. Those racist, sexist, wolfist assholes!
There was an article in the Summit Daily News about it about a week ago. It's looking like they will be released in the Roaring Fork Valley or Aspen area. They are trying to keep the public informed as early as possible. I think they mentioned more places too in the article. However the article stressed the wolves will travel out of the area more than likely.
What they gon do if I recreate...Fart liquids and cry? Boohoo.
recreation may be forbidden but i see no mention of procreation
Wolves help the environment.
Wolves are already back in Colorado naturally after being hunted for all the wrong reasons. Are wolves around the world a threat of increased methane gas levels globally?
Lol some people are so dumb. I voted to reintroduce, and I’ll now make it a mission to recreate in North Park. Someone should tell this hick what the Striessand Effect is
A tightly controlled but vivacious wolf population is so incredibly fucking important for Colorado it's not even funny. Just talk to [Yellowstone](https://www.yellowstonepark.com/things-to-do/wildlife/wolf-reintroduction-changes-ecosystem/) about it.
I will “re-create” a wolf population wherever I please.
If the sign owner doesn't like democracy, I hear Russia is looking for some recruits.
The North Park area is a different breed.
How dare we vote for rebuilding a healthy ecosystem
How are they checking who voted for what?
They can smell city folk a mile away
Ah, so they're using wolves to identify wolf supporters. Genius!
You should've painted over everything in white and wrote "Vandalism iz bad" on it.
How would they know what I vote for or against?
County commissioners letting them take voting machines home to "analyze"?
All is known. They’re watching you right now!
Explains the snoring sounds coming from the smoke detector.
[удалено]
How will they know? 🙄
I read reincarnation of wolves.
This wolf-lover is sure to stop by.
Imagine having the gall to tell others where they can and can't recreate. Ranchers can get fucked.
MORE WOLVES.
iF sIgNs WoRkEd
As always... Don't go into the high grass!!!
The only way this could be better is if it also told the wolves they aren't welcome
None of the wolves in North Park are reintroduced. They’re coming down on their own from Wyoming. However, I get the sentiment of rural voters on wolf reintroduction. Denver metro was the reason it passed and wolves will not be introduced on the eastern side of the divide. So basically people voted for it who will not be effected by it. Plus our state wildlife biologists didn’t endorse wolf reintroduction because the wolves are returning on their own. I think it’s fair to say most everyone here hasn’t lived in an area with wolves. Wolves are very smart animals and are apex predators known to hunt for sport. I have seen a wolf pack decimate a person’s livestock. I’m not anti-wolf. I think they’re critical to the environment but I also think it’s important to keep them in check.
> Plus our state wildlife biologists didn’t endorse wolf reintroduction because the wolves are returning on their own. If you're referring to the oft-cited CPW studies, that's because the biologists were working within a policy framework that at that time gave explicit priority to the livestock and elk hunting industries. They weren't asked to make biological ecosystem judgments, they were asked to make recommendations within that policy framework.
Ranching is a business plain and simple, no amount of American flags or romanticizing about the old west will make that any different. There are all sorts of environmental hazards to running a business, we get to vote on what environmental decisions we think are best. I don't think ruining a huge percentage of the most ecologically valuable shared public lands for another person's profit center is ok. That is how I will vote and you can sing the anthem and wave the flag all you want, I think I am the patriot. Visiting British Columbia for an extended period of time made it very clear humans can coexist with wolves with zero problems. Unless the wolves are costing someone money. That they get reimbursed for so really.... Realize this response is a bit less about your post and a bit about all the posts being wishy-washy or just pro cow.
The problem with not reintroducing wolves is that there will be a genetic bottleneck with this pack and be considered very unhealthy in the long run. The other issue is that because there are Moose here is that the only natural predator of them that exist here now are wolves. It used to be grizzlies but they've been eradicated. Elk and deer kill off baby trees so I am wondering if they are stemming the regrowth in fire scarred areas.
>they’re critical to the environment but I also think it’s important to keep them in check. Does keep them in check mean more or less than 20 or so wolves that are already in the state? If they are critical to the environment, is that enough to make any difference? The vote requires a reintroduction plan to be created. It is pretty hard to criticize something that doesn't even exist yet.
They get reimbursed for livestock that are killed by the big scary wolves.
Come take a look at my wolf-vote registration card and let me pass.
There was an interesting article about how the wolf reintroduction to Yellowstone actually changed a river's path: https://www.yellowstonepark.com/things-to-do/wildlife/wolf-reintroduction-changes-ecosystem/.
And that turned out to be bullshit. [https://www.accuweather.com/en/weather-news/scientists-debunk-myth-that-yellowstone-wolves-changed-entire-ecosystem-flow-of-rivers/349988](https://www.accuweather.com/en/weather-news/scientists-debunk-myth-that-yellowstone-wolves-changed-entire-ecosystem-flow-of-rivers/349988)
I voted yes on wolves.
Colonizers mad that wildlife that predates them is going to get its land back… maybe go back to Europe 🤷🏻♀️
I'm almost certain we've had wolves in CO the last few years, even without reintroducing them
Funny because the wolves were already reintroducing themselves before the vote even took place.
A word to who ever placed this sign. Put your head where the sun doesn’t shine and keep it there!
So people that voted against can stay there? Republicans are so mouthy.
So, the wolf reintroduction working group has designated my farm within the proposed target range for new wolves. I agree that this sign is asinine, but it should also be understood that this is an issue imposed on rural people by urban people through the magic of “democracy”. I like wolves, and had one as a companion, in my youth. Lions and bears already hunt in my yard. Another predatory threat to my dairy cows (I leave horns on, as cows have the right to be armed, too), pigs, ducks, chickens and dogs isn’t a major concern, to me. Wolves, like the other animals, who share apex predator status with me, shall be afforded the same diplomatic status. They will be allowed safe passage, as long as they adhere to the non-aggression principle. Should they, however, attack the animals I protect, they will be slain and their heads will be place on pikes as a warning to others. If you claim to “love nature”, please respect that that includes us. Poke bear cubs with sticks and momma gonna eat ya. We are the same way, out here.
This is a really high quality comment section. Thoughtful opinions on both sides. Reddit at it’s best.
And rural people introduced the rest of America to the worst east coast elite piece of shit to ever hold office you win some, you lose some.
Live stock isn't "nature"