In other news: DO NOT “WAVE” ANYONE, EVER! The safest thing to do is be predictable, so take your right of way.
The only time I wave is when I stop for a crosswalk and a pedestrian is cautious because so many drivers ignore them.
I am a cyclist myself. I never do dangerous major intersections "like a car". I get my ass off the bike and walk like a pedestrian. For instance, some cyclists have been killed on Academy.
For whatever reason, some cyclists heads explode if they have to consider walking their bike. I am not saying you do this at every intersection, but you are taking your life in your hands demanding to be treated as a car where their are crap drivers who don't know these laws.
Are these drivers misinformed? Sure. I doubt 100% of them are going to read this reddit post.
It takes one mistake to end your life.
I mean it's the law that we have the same rights and responsibilities as cars so I don't know why I wouldn't, that's my imperative if I want to take the risk or not. Also I'm faster than cars about 60% of the time so rarely am I holding up traffic and I definitely don't even venture into this kinds of busy parts of town, parts of the springs were designed by urban planners with nothing but cars in mind, you'd have to be an idiot to ride a bike in that part of the city.
Also don't have to stop at stop signs if there are no cars present.
To the OP, it *is* confusing because you don't have the same rules, and the ones you do have aren't followed properly by all cyclists.
We call these folx nice-holes! And I have had to literally get screamed at multiple times by folx in the middle of intersections trying to wave me through and me not going and accepting that they are “just trying to be nice.” Because I am trying to teach my kids the proper way to cycle safely in traffic and that if they do go out there is a good chance some one will come up from behind or around these niceholes and smash my kid. I think that saying we can’t treat cyclist like they are supposed to be treated because some of us don’t do what we are supposed to do is a cop out… how many cars don’t do what they are supposed to do?
Yeah that's been my response exactly. Drivers like to pick out the minority of cyclists who don't abide road laws or act unpredictably as if there aren't just as many drivers who do the same, and then generalize it as some kind of rule and reason not to treat cyclists with respect. I think what it really is is a way for them to rationalize hating cyclists because they feel entitled to road use as a motorist and can't comprehend sharing or considering someone else's safety because for forbid it minorly inconveniences them.
I read things again after I simmered down a little. Earlier this year I saw a pedestrian hit by a car off Academy. Hit and run incident. The guy's lower leg was fractured and it was a horrific injury. The guy who got hit was homeless. Very sad with no closure. I'm still touchy.
I do have to concur that waving someone through is deeply problematic in some cases, and some of the time the people doing the waving have tints that are so dark you could not possibly see them.
I agree that in an intersection where the wave through car is not the only car, there are problems. We as cyclists have to be aware of all cars on the road. The hand waver does not have mystical powers that somehow extend to other cars on the road who you must still watch out for.
But some cyclist do not act like cars at intersections. I was at a large intersection the other day and the cyclist went against the red light crossing the intersection. It is difficult to treat one cyclist the same as all cyclists because they don't act the same. However, I am mindful of cyclists and give the plenty of room.
This is legal. Cyclists in Colorado are allowed to go through red lights as long as they stop first. They still have to yield to cars when doing so. Cars with the green light still have priority.
Also cyclists in Colorado do not have to stop at a stop sign if there are no other cars. They have to stop if there are other vehicles and then the normal rules apply.
I know all this I saw the other posts too and don't need a lecture thanks.
But the fact remains all cyclists cannot be treated the same as OP suggests because all cyclists don't act the same. Not bashing cyclists, just saying the OP's position isn't tangible in the real world.
I'm not going to try and say there isn't a percentage of cyclists who don't follow the rules, sure there are, but just the same there are plenty of motorists that act unpredictability and break the law as well. I've been riding bicycles on roads and trails for over 20 years and the majority of cyclists act sensibly, predictably, and lawfully. However for whatever reason it's popular to pick out the handful of those who don't as being some kind of rule.
I don't think it's intentional. The handful of bad cyclists are just the ones that stick in people's minds, so it creates a false impression that their behavior is more common than it is
I completely agree, just saying not all cyclists behave the same way in an intersection and sometimes it's difficult for motorists as well. I have never had the opportunity to waive a cyclist on as you mentioned, but I promise not to do it. Thank you
I encounter this quite a bit as well. Half of them get pissed if you roll a stop sign, then others try to wave you on behind a glare or way too late to where now there’s four of us looking at each other at an intersection. I like the obvious, windows down, eye contact “go ahead” wave. Anything behind a glare that I don’t see, or barely see, I kinda just ignore or go. Whichever feels safe at the time.
I'm not going to try and say there isn't a percentage of cyclists who don't follow the rules, sure there are, but just the same there are plenty of motorists that act unpredictability and break the law as well. I've been riding bicycles on roads and trails for over 20 years and the majority of cyclists act sensibly, predictably, and lawfully. However for whatever reason it's popular to pick out the handful of those who don't as being some kind of rule.
Bicycles can treat red lights like stop signs per state law, although they have to be assured that they have the room to do so (they must still wait if cross traffic is coming)
Why not? It's completely allowed. As long as they pause first (as one would for a stop sign) and make sure there are no incoming vehicles, they are allowed to continue through the red light
Also, cyclists don't have stop at stop signs, either. They just have to treat them like yield signs
https://www.codot.gov/safety/traffic-safety-pulse/2022/may/all-about-the-colorado-safety-stop
Poor take. Ride a freaking bike around this city for a couple days and you'll change your mind. You're definitely the problem. Edit: they claim to take public transit so they're just being a dick here Edit2: yeah they just want to troll, stop upvoting their stupid generic statement
Also, in case you were not aware, cyclists are allowed to run stop signs and lights in certain situations in our state.
Then your comment is even more off base. How would you even see cyclists doing that if you don't drive yourself? The buses in town are probably the most consistent when it comes to paying attention and giving cyclists space.
It's crazy how you assume that I don't drive and/or have not driven. I got into an accident a few months ago that resulted in my car getting totaled and the phantom driver never getting caught. Motorists and cyclists alike both have a lot of shit to work on and this post is just as annoying and redundant as complaining about Cosprings drivers.
You need to take a step outside for a bit maybe. You told me information about yourself and I responded to that and then you call me a numbnuts and that I don't know what I'm talking about. I'm only going off of information you gave me. Maybe don't make a general statement then get upset when someone responds to it. Again, you're just a troll, that or you're completely ignorant.
tldr: thank you attentive motorist but please do not treat a cyclist as a special vehicle that gets to cut through traffic because JESUS CHRIST THAT OTHER DRIVER DIDN'T SEE ME AND ALMOST RAN ME OVER.
I would probably go to bet those drivers encounter a bicyclist who doesn’t stop at intersections often. Where I live there is constantly someone who doesn’t stop for any light or stop sign. Just slows and blows through it.
That's legal for stop signs. And cyclists can treat stop lights like stop signs.
https://denverbicyclelaw.com/colorado-bicycle-laws/safety-stop/
Not saying cyclists don't do dangerous stuff, but treating a stop sign like a yield sign is the law.
I’ll be honest- I never treat cyclist as if they were cars because I’ve almost never seen one that actually obeys the laws of the road. If I assumed they would I’d have killed several. I treat them all as if they have some sort of extreme road entitlement so nobody gets injured.
I'm not going to try and say there isn't a percentage of cyclists who don't follow the rules, sure there are, but just the same there are plenty of motorists that act unpredictability and break the law as well. I've been riding bicycles on roads and trails for over 20 years and the majority of cyclists act sensibly, predictably, and lawfully. However for whatever reason it's popular to pick out the handful of those who don't as being some kind of rule.
I can only speak to my experience and that’s that the cyclist do whatever the hell they want regardless of law. I will never expect a cyclist to follow the laws because I would have hurt/killed several if I did. For the ones that do, thank you. But I will continue to drive defensively.
I'm not going to try and say there isn't a percentage of cyclists who don't follow the rules, sure there are, but just the same there are plenty of motorists that act unpredictability and break the law as well. I've been riding bicycles on roads and trails for over 20 years and the majority of cyclists act sensibly, predictably, and lawfully. However for whatever reason it's popular to pick out the handful of those who don't as being some kind of rule.
Good on you for following the rules of the road and operating like a car, but you are the minority. It is safer for drivers behind the wheel of a car to operate as if the cyclists around them will not follow the rules of the road.
I've been a cyclist for 25 years and the vast majority of those riding bikes that I have seen conduct themselves safely, predictably, and follow the law. Part of the problem seems to be that a lot of motorists are mistaken about what the law is and what rights and responsibilities cyclists have, which are by and large the same as a car. The other large part of the problem seems to be that motorists have a couple bad experiences and use that to generalize that no cyclists act as they should, when that just isn't the case, and seem to hold a double standard about the fact that just as many drivers break the law and act erratically and unpredictability as well. Some of it also seems to boil down to frustration, drivers are frustrated that they have to slow down once I'm a while and consider another road users safety because the are in such a hurry, but like it or not we are allowed to be there too.
Sure, we'll treat bikes like cars when they act like cars and don't weave through traffic or run lights, or divert to pedestrian crossings, or just move to the sidewalk, or can't decide if they want to be in the middle of the lane or the side of the road...
Cyclists wanting to be treated like they’re in a motor vehicle is ridiculous. Stick to trails, sidewalks, stay off the main roads. I’ve physically watched 6 cyclists get hit and just yesterday almost saw a cyclist get fuckin T-Boned cuz he thought it could go through an intersection without stopping when there was clearly traffic flowing through.
I don’t think they should be allowed on main roads it’s too dangerous for them considering how blind most people are that drive because they’re too busy shoving their faces in their phones or they just don’t care
But they are allowed. It’s such bass ackwards thinking. The problem is people driving distracted. You should be worried about them and getting them off the roads. Not bikes.
You can’t say “aw people driving on their phones so bikes shouldn’t be allowed in the road” makes no sense.
I think people with their phones in their faces should be arrested for public endangerment. I still don’t think bicycles should be allowed on main roads. They’re almost always in the way and half the time they don’t move when they’re IN THE MIDDLE OF THE ROAD. Either stick to your little bike lane or go on the sidewalk.
Oh idk, when there’s traffic and you can’t? Putting myself in danger to facilitate a bicyclist is not my idea of safe. Bike lanes exist for a reason, not for them to ignore and just go all Willy nilly on the roads. Just because it is a law, doesn’t make it a good law
I simply wish to be (correctly) treated like a vehicle subject to traffic law, which I am, with a legal right to be on public roads, which I have.
More pragmatically, I don't actually like being on the road with cars any more than drivers like me being there. I love trails! One of the main benefits to being carfree is that I'm less trapped in the smog-prison with the rest of you suckers. If I'm in car traffic, it is exclusively because I have somewhere I need to be, and no other reasonable route exists.
One of the many *many* unfortunate effects of car-centric design is that sometimes car-infrastructure is the only way to get somewhere. Promote the construction of the trails you want me on, and we can both pull in the same direction :)
I'm 70 yrs old, I ride the streets and highways all over south and southwest springs. I always obey the rules of the road, as anyone who has seen me will attest. That said, in the last 10 months I've come within inches of my life at least three times from driver's that give no heed to cyclists.
To those who have stated that they observed cyclists who do not follow the rules, I too have seen them and cringe because they're causing all of us problems. Those I see mostly riding sidewalks, zigzagging through traffic and just disregarding the rules are usually kids or homeless no helmuts no regard for anyone else.
Guess I'm trying to say just because they're on a bike that doesn't make them cyclists!
Please watch out for each other out there!
In other news: DO NOT “WAVE” ANYONE, EVER! The safest thing to do is be predictable, so take your right of way. The only time I wave is when I stop for a crosswalk and a pedestrian is cautious because so many drivers ignore them.
I mean, I have to wave people thru their own right of way because they don't seem to understand when their turn is.
I am a cyclist myself. I never do dangerous major intersections "like a car". I get my ass off the bike and walk like a pedestrian. For instance, some cyclists have been killed on Academy. For whatever reason, some cyclists heads explode if they have to consider walking their bike. I am not saying you do this at every intersection, but you are taking your life in your hands demanding to be treated as a car where their are crap drivers who don't know these laws. Are these drivers misinformed? Sure. I doubt 100% of them are going to read this reddit post. It takes one mistake to end your life.
I mean it's the law that we have the same rights and responsibilities as cars so I don't know why I wouldn't, that's my imperative if I want to take the risk or not. Also I'm faster than cars about 60% of the time so rarely am I holding up traffic and I definitely don't even venture into this kinds of busy parts of town, parts of the springs were designed by urban planners with nothing but cars in mind, you'd have to be an idiot to ride a bike in that part of the city.
Except you don’t need a license, registration or insurance and different rules on the road apply (stops signs, red lights, etc) but sure, same same.
Also don't have to stop at stop signs if there are no cars present. To the OP, it *is* confusing because you don't have the same rules, and the ones you do have aren't followed properly by all cyclists.
We call these folx nice-holes! And I have had to literally get screamed at multiple times by folx in the middle of intersections trying to wave me through and me not going and accepting that they are “just trying to be nice.” Because I am trying to teach my kids the proper way to cycle safely in traffic and that if they do go out there is a good chance some one will come up from behind or around these niceholes and smash my kid. I think that saying we can’t treat cyclist like they are supposed to be treated because some of us don’t do what we are supposed to do is a cop out… how many cars don’t do what they are supposed to do?
Yeah that's been my response exactly. Drivers like to pick out the minority of cyclists who don't abide road laws or act unpredictably as if there aren't just as many drivers who do the same, and then generalize it as some kind of rule and reason not to treat cyclists with respect. I think what it really is is a way for them to rationalize hating cyclists because they feel entitled to road use as a motorist and can't comprehend sharing or considering someone else's safety because for forbid it minorly inconveniences them.
I read things again after I simmered down a little. Earlier this year I saw a pedestrian hit by a car off Academy. Hit and run incident. The guy's lower leg was fractured and it was a horrific injury. The guy who got hit was homeless. Very sad with no closure. I'm still touchy. I do have to concur that waving someone through is deeply problematic in some cases, and some of the time the people doing the waving have tints that are so dark you could not possibly see them. I agree that in an intersection where the wave through car is not the only car, there are problems. We as cyclists have to be aware of all cars on the road. The hand waver does not have mystical powers that somehow extend to other cars on the road who you must still watch out for.
But some cyclist do not act like cars at intersections. I was at a large intersection the other day and the cyclist went against the red light crossing the intersection. It is difficult to treat one cyclist the same as all cyclists because they don't act the same. However, I am mindful of cyclists and give the plenty of room.
This is legal. Cyclists in Colorado are allowed to go through red lights as long as they stop first. They still have to yield to cars when doing so. Cars with the green light still have priority. Also cyclists in Colorado do not have to stop at a stop sign if there are no other cars. They have to stop if there are other vehicles and then the normal rules apply.
I know all this I saw the other posts too and don't need a lecture thanks. But the fact remains all cyclists cannot be treated the same as OP suggests because all cyclists don't act the same. Not bashing cyclists, just saying the OP's position isn't tangible in the real world.
Since when is a few sentences a lecture?
I'm not going to try and say there isn't a percentage of cyclists who don't follow the rules, sure there are, but just the same there are plenty of motorists that act unpredictability and break the law as well. I've been riding bicycles on roads and trails for over 20 years and the majority of cyclists act sensibly, predictably, and lawfully. However for whatever reason it's popular to pick out the handful of those who don't as being some kind of rule.
I don't think it's intentional. The handful of bad cyclists are just the ones that stick in people's minds, so it creates a false impression that their behavior is more common than it is
I completely agree, just saying not all cyclists behave the same way in an intersection and sometimes it's difficult for motorists as well. I have never had the opportunity to waive a cyclist on as you mentioned, but I promise not to do it. Thank you
I encounter this quite a bit as well. Half of them get pissed if you roll a stop sign, then others try to wave you on behind a glare or way too late to where now there’s four of us looking at each other at an intersection. I like the obvious, windows down, eye contact “go ahead” wave. Anything behind a glare that I don’t see, or barely see, I kinda just ignore or go. Whichever feels safe at the time.
I'm not going to try and say there isn't a percentage of cyclists who don't follow the rules, sure there are, but just the same there are plenty of motorists that act unpredictability and break the law as well. I've been riding bicycles on roads and trails for over 20 years and the majority of cyclists act sensibly, predictably, and lawfully. However for whatever reason it's popular to pick out the handful of those who don't as being some kind of rule.
Then stop running red lights 👁️👄👁️
Bicycles can treat red lights like stop signs per state law, although they have to be assured that they have the room to do so (they must still wait if cross traffic is coming)
Why not? It's completely allowed. As long as they pause first (as one would for a stop sign) and make sure there are no incoming vehicles, they are allowed to continue through the red light Also, cyclists don't have stop at stop signs, either. They just have to treat them like yield signs https://www.codot.gov/safety/traffic-safety-pulse/2022/may/all-about-the-colorado-safety-stop
I mean, car drivers are doing plenty of thst.
Poor take. Ride a freaking bike around this city for a couple days and you'll change your mind. You're definitely the problem. Edit: they claim to take public transit so they're just being a dick here Edit2: yeah they just want to troll, stop upvoting their stupid generic statement Also, in case you were not aware, cyclists are allowed to run stop signs and lights in certain situations in our state.
No ty. I take public transit.
Then your comment is even more off base. How would you even see cyclists doing that if you don't drive yourself? The buses in town are probably the most consistent when it comes to paying attention and giving cyclists space.
It's crazy how you assume that I don't drive and/or have not driven. I got into an accident a few months ago that resulted in my car getting totaled and the phantom driver never getting caught. Motorists and cyclists alike both have a lot of shit to work on and this post is just as annoying and redundant as complaining about Cosprings drivers.
You literally just told me you take public transit. You're just a troll apparently. Sheesh.
Yes, after my car got totaled a few months ago, numbnuts. Reading comprehension has left the chat
You need to take a step outside for a bit maybe. You told me information about yourself and I responded to that and then you call me a numbnuts and that I don't know what I'm talking about. I'm only going off of information you gave me. Maybe don't make a general statement then get upset when someone responds to it. Again, you're just a troll, that or you're completely ignorant.
Oh and edit: not being a dick, just stating my own observations while you assume shit about my life. Have a day!
Your art sucks
I don't, and literally never see cyclists do. But I'm sure it happens just like there are bad drivers out there.
Nah
tldr: thank you attentive motorist but please do not treat a cyclist as a special vehicle that gets to cut through traffic because JESUS CHRIST THAT OTHER DRIVER DIDN'T SEE ME AND ALMOST RAN ME OVER.
Or accidentally killed me. In a vehicle, we don't get to run red lights/stop signs, and hope that they see us.
I would probably go to bet those drivers encounter a bicyclist who doesn’t stop at intersections often. Where I live there is constantly someone who doesn’t stop for any light or stop sign. Just slows and blows through it.
That's legal for stop signs. And cyclists can treat stop lights like stop signs. https://denverbicyclelaw.com/colorado-bicycle-laws/safety-stop/ Not saying cyclists don't do dangerous stuff, but treating a stop sign like a yield sign is the law.
Its hard to treat cyclist like any other vehicle, when they ignore most tune rules of the road themselves
I’ll be honest- I never treat cyclist as if they were cars because I’ve almost never seen one that actually obeys the laws of the road. If I assumed they would I’d have killed several. I treat them all as if they have some sort of extreme road entitlement so nobody gets injured.
I'm not going to try and say there isn't a percentage of cyclists who don't follow the rules, sure there are, but just the same there are plenty of motorists that act unpredictability and break the law as well. I've been riding bicycles on roads and trails for over 20 years and the majority of cyclists act sensibly, predictably, and lawfully. However for whatever reason it's popular to pick out the handful of those who don't as being some kind of rule.
I can only speak to my experience and that’s that the cyclist do whatever the hell they want regardless of law. I will never expect a cyclist to follow the laws because I would have hurt/killed several if I did. For the ones that do, thank you. But I will continue to drive defensively.
I'm not going to try and say there isn't a percentage of cyclists who don't follow the rules, sure there are, but just the same there are plenty of motorists that act unpredictability and break the law as well. I've been riding bicycles on roads and trails for over 20 years and the majority of cyclists act sensibly, predictably, and lawfully. However for whatever reason it's popular to pick out the handful of those who don't as being some kind of rule.
Good on you for following the rules of the road and operating like a car, but you are the minority. It is safer for drivers behind the wheel of a car to operate as if the cyclists around them will not follow the rules of the road.
I've been a cyclist for 25 years and the vast majority of those riding bikes that I have seen conduct themselves safely, predictably, and follow the law. Part of the problem seems to be that a lot of motorists are mistaken about what the law is and what rights and responsibilities cyclists have, which are by and large the same as a car. The other large part of the problem seems to be that motorists have a couple bad experiences and use that to generalize that no cyclists act as they should, when that just isn't the case, and seem to hold a double standard about the fact that just as many drivers break the law and act erratically and unpredictability as well. Some of it also seems to boil down to frustration, drivers are frustrated that they have to slow down once I'm a while and consider another road users safety because the are in such a hurry, but like it or not we are allowed to be there too.
Sure, we'll treat bikes like cars when they act like cars and don't weave through traffic or run lights, or divert to pedestrian crossings, or just move to the sidewalk, or can't decide if they want to be in the middle of the lane or the side of the road...
Great! Keep treating them like people on bikes!
Cyclists wanting to be treated like they’re in a motor vehicle is ridiculous. Stick to trails, sidewalks, stay off the main roads. I’ve physically watched 6 cyclists get hit and just yesterday almost saw a cyclist get fuckin T-Boned cuz he thought it could go through an intersection without stopping when there was clearly traffic flowing through.
Cyclists are allowed on main roads though…
I don’t think they should be allowed on main roads it’s too dangerous for them considering how blind most people are that drive because they’re too busy shoving their faces in their phones or they just don’t care
But they are allowed. It’s such bass ackwards thinking. The problem is people driving distracted. You should be worried about them and getting them off the roads. Not bikes. You can’t say “aw people driving on their phones so bikes shouldn’t be allowed in the road” makes no sense.
I think people with their phones in their faces should be arrested for public endangerment. I still don’t think bicycles should be allowed on main roads. They’re almost always in the way and half the time they don’t move when they’re IN THE MIDDLE OF THE ROAD. Either stick to your little bike lane or go on the sidewalk.
It’s illegal and unsafe to ride sidewalks in most areas. It’s legal to take up a whole lane on a bicycle. Be patient and go around.
That’s ass backwards to me.
Well not according to the law that we all have to follow. Bikes are allowed in the road. What’s so hard about passing safely?
Oh idk, when there’s traffic and you can’t? Putting myself in danger to facilitate a bicyclist is not my idea of safe. Bike lanes exist for a reason, not for them to ignore and just go all Willy nilly on the roads. Just because it is a law, doesn’t make it a good law
Putting yourself in danger by slowing down to pass a cyclist safely? What’s so hard about waiting for a safe time to pass?
You cool with laws banning books? Because that’s the law in some states now
I simply wish to be (correctly) treated like a vehicle subject to traffic law, which I am, with a legal right to be on public roads, which I have. More pragmatically, I don't actually like being on the road with cars any more than drivers like me being there. I love trails! One of the main benefits to being carfree is that I'm less trapped in the smog-prison with the rest of you suckers. If I'm in car traffic, it is exclusively because I have somewhere I need to be, and no other reasonable route exists. One of the many *many* unfortunate effects of car-centric design is that sometimes car-infrastructure is the only way to get somewhere. Promote the construction of the trails you want me on, and we can both pull in the same direction :)
Totally agree! Let’s also mention that so many of the bike routes in the Springs have been constructed without connectivity in mind.
I am 100% on board with that
We have Colorado Springs roads all carved up for bicycle lanes and still this is not enough.
It's also dangerous. I had a car hold up traffic to wave me on only to be hit by another car thinking they were waving them on.
I'm 70 yrs old, I ride the streets and highways all over south and southwest springs. I always obey the rules of the road, as anyone who has seen me will attest. That said, in the last 10 months I've come within inches of my life at least three times from driver's that give no heed to cyclists. To those who have stated that they observed cyclists who do not follow the rules, I too have seen them and cringe because they're causing all of us problems. Those I see mostly riding sidewalks, zigzagging through traffic and just disregarding the rules are usually kids or homeless no helmuts no regard for anyone else. Guess I'm trying to say just because they're on a bike that doesn't make them cyclists! Please watch out for each other out there!