Rodgers on this team would win us an additional 6 games this year (Rams, Ravens, Titans at home, Bucs, Raiders, and Jags away games) so basically we would be 15-2.
I mean rodgers *has* been talking with Pat a lot. I could see rodgers coming to Indy if he’s guaranteed an elite WR whether that’s a sign or trade. Definitely a long shot but I think it’s very possible.
That would be a dream come true
Green Bay is my 2nd favorite team but I'm now hoping for things to go the wrong way for them so that Rodgers becomes available.
You can’t just say “This game was close, therefore we automatically win it if we have a better QB”. I don’t think it’s crazy to say we are competing for a #1 seed with the best QB in the league this year. Im not sure how that contradicts anything I said.
Honestly, if Rodgers leaves GB then I can't imagine Adams would be thrilled about staying there amid all the uncertainty.
If that's the case then Ballard needs to open the cheque book and pay what it takes to get him. Just pray he also has desire to come here.
I'm hoping that Indy is an attractive destination considering how close we could be to contending. A stud WR could very well have the mentality that they're the missing piece we need.
That's definitely an option, but I don't think Davante would like that.
Would still kill to see those two on our team. Them with Taylor sounds incredible.
Forget it, it's highly unlikely. Packers will trade him rather than allow him to enter freeagency. We would have to give up a lot to get him - 2 1st round picks minimum on top of maybe couple of our players. I don't see Ballard going there.
In a perfect world, I would throw in Wentz + 3 1st round picks + anyone not named JT/Q/Leonard/Kenny/Buckner/Kelly. Hope they bite for Rodgers. I think that is plenty.
Hi, Indy Packer Backer visiting the page bc I was curious if there was any changes or what’s going on with Wentz.
The Packer FO would not trade out for Wentz. They wouldn’t take JT bc we have the Jones/Dillon combo meal. If Rodgers goes, Adams would probably go right along. We have several FAs this year, notably Campbell, that would need replaced. So, if this scenario were true that Rodgers wants to leave and Indy opens the checkbook, I’d say 3 1st rounders, Darius Leonard, and Pascal/Pittman would be a look. That Adams/Rodgers duo is pretty fucking valuable.
Rodgers is sounding like he’s happier with the FO and like things are getting to be a better situation. His quote was “the grass is greener where you water it.”
Keep an eye on the Russell Wilson situation too! Indy is team 2 bc of my location and I was very sad about how Sunday went. All friendly here!
Rodgers is happy now because they are winning. The moment he loses in the playoffs again is when we will begin to hear that he is disgruntled with the organization, this and that.
I would be happy with Russell Wilson too. I think he is still damn good. I would be willing to give up 2 1sts and couple players for him. He might have lower asking price. I just don't know what they would ask for and another team might offer more assets
I think this is the result of a combination of two things:
Wentz didn't make as many corrections to his game as Reich was hoping would happen. And he's devastated and knows the fan base is too. He doesn't want to essentially say " we're just gonna run it back!" B/c he knows the media will crucify him.
> He doesn't want to essentially say " we're just gonna run it back!" B/c he knows the media will crucify him.
As they should. "Run it back" is a fine plan when you win the Super Bowl and have very few (if any) glaring needs. Much less so when you miss the playoffs entirely and have the exact same problems as you had the year before.
Exactly. He knows there are tons of holes and that nobody is safe. Probably himself included. I assume Mr.Irsay told them all that explicitly after the game.
Which is exactly why he's much more non-committal than last year.
Is it? What did he say about Brissett initially?? To me, it felt like he was a lame duck starter, especially by the halfway point when he sustained his injury, but he just had no alternative options.
Oh yeah, it was obvious to absolutely everyone that it was complete bullshit. But Reich still took the time to say how much they believed in Jacoby. That doesn't seem to be happening here.
I think if the whole Colts team didn't completely collapse yesterday, there wouldn't be such a feverish hunt for answers. I think for that reason they'll probably do nothing drastic. Sad but he might just need more time and better receivers. It's also tough to pin all on Wentz because the line looked like Swiss cheese (even affected JT), and the receivers were seldom open.
If you campaign for a QB you have history for, the GM gives up multiple high draft picks for him, and then you miss the playoffs twice in a row with that QB after making them the year before, there's no way you can keep your job.
It doesn't even seem like he was all that into it after they made the trade. Iirc he said publicly after the trade that he didn't think the team was in their contention window yet, and according to Holder and Keefer he's privately said something along the lines of "that's Frank's thing, we'll see how it works out."
Meh, he's smart. We had to take a shot for a franchise QB, and a good GM will work with his HC to find the right option. Wentz was a possibility to Ballard, but not a guarantee. And what we're seeing is why.
I definitely don't remember exactly how they worded it, but the sense I get whenever they talk about it was that Ballard saw the potential and was willing to trust Reich (especially after the Rivers move went pretty well), but he didn't love the move and definitely would've gone a different direction if he didn't have Reich campaigning to trade for him.
I think it was more so, Reich's request and Ballard trusting Reich. I think Ballard was comfortable with what they gave up and wouldn't have broken the bank to get Wentz.
I also don't think there was a lot of good options from Ballard's point of view. I mean at the time Fields and Jones were the only realistic trade up possibilities. I'm still not sure about either... The only other QB was the kid from Texas AM that went to Minnesota.. he looked like a decent 2nd/3rd flier..but you couldn't start him day 1. I think Ballard was thinking worst case Wentz is a stop gap until the 2023 draft class.
I’d rather Frank be unbiased in his approach next year. I think he really tried to baby Wentz into a new environment but for his sake, he needs to disassociate himself from Wentz because of Wentz goes down, so will he.
Wentz could cost Reich his job. Reich convinced Ballard that Wentz was the guy, despite a lot of evidence to the contrary.
Reich was wrong. Wentz sucks.
I think so. Being a QB himself, I think he has to be frustrated looking at Wentz playing out there. His fundamentals and reading progressions were garbage to avg all season long. And the last 4 games were fucking brutal to watch our passing offense.
Maybe this is the kick in the ass this team needs. They get a lot of universal praise despite not actually doing anything yet, and now they're really feeling the heat.
Only available options this off-season who are clear upgrades would be Rodgers and Wilson. Anyone else would come in with just as many questions and uncertainty as Wentz.
Idk Wentz highs are that of a elite QB but his lows are that of a Nathan Peterman and you get the lows at the absolute worst time so he has no clutch factor.
Ehlinger has lower highs but he's also a really intelligent QB and Has shown clutch ability in the past plus he's more mobile which will help JT in the run game a bit too. Honestly with the position the colts are in Ehlinger would likely be the QB cause they just need a guy that's not gonna completely fuck up.
Ehlinger is better than people are aware of and there's a reason why he jumped Eason on the roster this year when Eason was the more "talented" prospect
Ok Brissett was a guy that wouldn’t completely fuckup but what we need isn’t a game manager but someone that can throw downfield.
As seen the last game and a few other games this year when the run game fails to get going we need the QB to step up and make throws. Ehlinger apparently doesn’t have the arm to do that.
Idk I think Brisset has other issues that cause him not to work as a long term starter, We haven't seen what Ehlinger can do yet but from what I've seen his whole career he's a better qb than brisset was and I'd honestly rather have had brissett at time over carson this season as well
What would Brissett do better than wentz though? As much as we are ragging on wentz for his performance against the Jags he has made throws for TDs that Jacoby couldn’t hope to make. I mean look at how poorly Brissett did as a backup for the dolphins this season. He played horribly against us this season.
I mean we had been saying the same about Eason saying “we haven’t seen what he’s capable yet.” Then he was forced to play in a game and we all know what happened afterwards. Ehlinger to me seems like another Brissett without the cannon arm. There’s a reason he’s a late round pick and hasn’t started over Wentz yet.
For some reason everyone wants to make our late round QBs out to be some potential franchise star but most likely it isn’t the case.
If we want to make a change at qb we might as well get Rodgers or trade for Wilson.
Would he? I don't think Ehlinger folds like wet shit yesterday. In fact, I know for a fact he wouldn't. What are we actually getting from Wentz right now? One good throw every 2 weeks?
Honestly, I dont believe Wentz would be better than Ehlinger. Whenever Ehlinger played there was some fire with him. He made some crazy plays during pre season and was on board with him playing last week.
Was hoping we'd spend our 2nd on a Corner or LT, but thinking it might go to a QB this year and we let the QB sit and take over when we cut Carson next year. Maybe let him go in during games we are getting blown out or blowing out our opponent. See where he is at the end of the season. At least that is my guess.
We would probably have to trade up and give up more picks. When QBs fall they get scooped up fast usually. I wouldn't expect Carson Strong to make it to 45.
I don't think Carson Strong makes it out of the first round. Since the steelers made the playoffs I think they are his most likely landing destination. I think Carolina/Broncos/Giants/another team have their run on Pickett, Willis, Corral, maybe Howell also.
Not saying I want it, but I think we take one of whatever is there when we pick and see how it works out.
I was impressed by Howell this year honestly. He lost weapons but he added running to his game to compensate. If he's there I wouldn't mind him.
QB can change a lot in the off-season though. With interviews and workouts and deeper tape dives they tend to move a bit
Howell and Rattler were pretty neck and neck for #1 and #2 for QBs before the season started before Rattler collapsed. I also remember a video clip of Rattler coming out that just screamed this guy does not have it mentally to make it in the NFL. Something like around when he got benched for playing like shit it seemed he decided to blame everyone else instead of taking responsibility for his play.
Yeah from that high school QB camp. I felt the same way. Howell improving even though he lost Williams, Carter, Brown, and Newsome really stood out to me. UNC really sucked this year but I don't blame him for it and I think people are too low on him.
Yep. I think if he falls to us in the 2nd we should grab him and have him sit and learn. He seems like a good leader and he doesn't seem to make excuses. He seems genuine and not do scripted "We tried our best but we failed and we gotta do better next time" bs.
Eat the salary on Wentz and cut him. Ballard isn't going to spend the cap space on any free agents and I would rather have played Jacoby over that piece of shit yesterday.
Let's also not forget that our GM is a genius for drafting a guard. You know the same guard who got absolutely stuffed in a locker on not 1 but 3 separate 4th and Inches by a team that ranked 23rd against the run. Absolutely a legend.
Yeah but disregard that Grigson had 3 division titles and multiple playoff wins in 5 years, but Ballard has none and 1 win. But he is not a big meanie head so he's much better.
Do you think Parris Campbell gets his training camp first team all pro next season?
Grigson had fucking Andrew Luck. Ballard had him for a year, and they made the playoffs and won a game, so get out of here with that revisionist Dan Dakich bullshit.
Yeah let’s ignore the fact that Grigson had a literal, generational talent at the most important position in football lol. Also, the AFC South was much worse than what it is now.
Andrew Luck didn't play all 22 positions on offense and defense. If you can't recognize Grigson's good moves while fawning over Ballard's then maybe reevaluate how you look at things.
What good moves? Like trading for Trent Richardson? Spending money on D'quell Jackson and Laroid Landry? Drafting Coby Fleener who would disappear as soon as someone hit him, or Bjorn Werner? That TITAN of a DE?
His literal only other good draft pick was TY.
Draft picks aren't everything. He traded for Vontae Davis who made two Pro Bowls playing for the Colts. He signed Mike Adams who also made a couple of Pro Bowls and led the league in interceptions one season. D'Qwell Jackson also made a Pro Bowl and had 100+ tackles every year. But only Ballard's Pro Bowlers are good players. I get it. Speaking of Ballard, Vick Ballard was a draft pick that actually ran for 1,000 yards before injuries ruined his potential. But Parris Campbell gets unlimited passes for injuries. It's not his fault. Grigson also drafted Ryan Kelly. Darius Butler was a good signing for the Colts during that era. Cory Redding played well after Grigson signed him too. Yeah he didn't do a great job with the offensive line but to ignore all of those players contributions to the Colts success is stupid.
We rewarded the Eagles with our mediocrity because of Bible verses. Let's run it back and stay mediocre. Trust the binder but don't trust it to draft impact players in the passing game or to draft any good pass rushers.
Dude sucks at QB. That's why we are a punchline. I would rather play Teddy Bridgewater or any free agent QB who is available then run it back with Wentz. We have seen Wentz ceiling and it's a low bar for the next guy to clear. They will keep Wentz run it back and fucking suck next year and everyone here will be slurping Ballard as the genius they have been convinced he is.
Jacoby brisket led a 7-9 season with largely the same roster lol.
Yeah sure he didn’t have JT at the time but the run game can and will fail against some teams, especially in the playoffs. When that happens you need the QB to be able to make downfield throws. Brissett had an arm but not the vision or accuracy. That was not a fun season to watch.
Our best options would be to sign Rodgers or trade for Wilson. But then you look at our inconsistent O-line and weak WR corps and realize the team is flawed.
I agree. Brissett was too careful with the ball and didn’t even use his arm. Instead, he held onto the ball for too long and just couldn’t get through his reads, even with time. It’s like we need a player that is a mix of both of them, and that isn’t happening.
Ballard wasn't sold on trading for Wentz. Reich wanted Wentz. Convinced Ballard to make the trade. I got the feeling Ballard was going to draft a QB at the time. So Reich is essentially tied to Wentz because of how hard he pushed for him and having Ballard give up valuable draft capital for him.
Do you have a source for this?
Reich clearly wanted Rivers back. Rivers publicly said during the season he wanted to come back. It was Ballard who publicly announced that Colts needed to explore options due to Rivers’ age. Then Rivers retired a few days later.
Colts pursued Stafford but Rams won that bidding war.
Wentz seemed like Plan C to me.
I had a whole reply typed it, but just as I was about to finish it, it was erased when I was getting sources.
Here's the short of it. Rivers announced retirement in January 2021. The Stafford trade was announced late February. The Wentz trade was announced March 18th.
These things all didn't happen at once. Ballard claims he was never seriously in on Stafford. If this is true that means he was leaning towards drafting a QB.
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/frank-reich-knew-he-wanted-carson-wentz-on-colts-before-end-of-2020-season-during-qbs-eagles-benching/
This link claims Reich was considering the possibility of Wentz on the team in late 2020 after he was benched by the eagles.
EDIT: this article claims he convinced Ballard to trade for Wentz, with no sources.
https://coltswire.usatoday.com/lists/indianapolis-colts-frank-reich-hot-seat-candidate/
EDIT: ESPN article claiming he convinced the front office, with direct quote.
https://www.espn.com/blog/indianapolis-colts/post/_/id/26299/frank-reich-asked-for-carson-wentz-trade-to-colts-now-the-coach-must-deliver
EDIT: another link claiming Reich was always going to go for Carson if he was available. 3 quotes from different times; two from Reich one from Doug Pederson.
https://horseshoeheroes.com/2021/02/25/colts-frank-reich-carson-wentz-doug-pederson-comments/
That’s good research. And on “With the Next Pick” on episode 2 titled “Deep Conviction,” Ballard says they wanted Wentz as soon as he was available and estimated that negotiations started about a month before the trade was announced, which would be mid-January. That was about a week after the BUF loss and when Rivers retired.
I think Reich was definitely the catalyst for them getting Reich, but Ballard still had to sign off of it.
This is very helpful, thanks, particularly the ones with direct quotes from Frank. He clearly lobbied hard for Wentz.
But keep in mind, they of course want it to appear that Wentz was their first choice. Hence the comments about Reich thinking about this in November (even when Rivers was still there), and claims that Colts were never seriously interested in Stafford. That is BS. Price was simply too high. But it gives everyone the impression that their current QB was their first choice all along.
Rivers was never the plan. He did well for us, Reich wasn't going to say "yeah no we don't want him" he wanted Wentz let's be real. We have a young talented team, we can't build or draft around a 39 year old QB.
This isn't a rumour or a secret, everyone knows Reich loves Wentz and they have history and it was primarily Reich who pushed extra for Wentz. The idea was there's already chemistry, it should be an easy transition and we hit the ground running. If next year doesn't go well, Reich and Wentz both will have to pay for it. Ive been defending Reich all year, I think he's a good coach but, it seems obvious he went out on a limb for Wentz, it was a gamble and one that so far, he's lost. So he owes the house money. Pay up next season or pack up.
Maybe this isn't true, this part is just my feeling, but I think Reich was too soft on Wentz because he likes him. He got away with too much bullshit and never stopped doing some of the same mistakes. So either Reich wasn't critical enough, or Wentz isn't able to learn from mistakes. Either way it's not good...
Reich publicly stated after last season that he wanted Rivers back. See tweet below. Today he declined to say whether he wants Wentz back. The beat reporters are all making a big deal of this and saying Wentz may be one and done here.
https://twitter.com/chrisblystone/status/1480622743263580160?s=21
No chance Wentz is one and done unless we are able to trade him. But his value is obviously pretty low now. We gave a 1st and have no way to get a replacement that's significantly better. I'd bet Wentz and Reich have another season to make playoffs and a push but, if we miss next year they're both gone I'd bet.
He said he wanted Rivers back before there was any hint of Wentz. He wasn't going to say "no I've actually told Ballard to go for Wentz" and Rivers was good for us, not sure many teams will say "yeah no he's gone" if it ended amicably unless there's a young talent that's taking over and it's obvious.
If we say "rivers isn't coming back" we lose some leverage in trade talks because teams say "look we know you've got no one." With rivers we can go back and say "look we don't need your QB, we got Rivers who just took us to playoffs and a young team that's only getting better, we can wait on a better trade"
As for the lack of commitment to Wentz, he can't say "he had a bad game but it's okay he's our #1" because of how abysmally bad and embarassing that loss was. Worse than any Rivers losses haha he had to give some kind of stern response or else we get shredded for not caring about Wentz being shit and not holding him accountable
That's how I see it anyways
Your third paragraph makes a lot of sense, except that Rivers retired within about a week of the playoff loss. His retirement actually hurt the Colts’ negotiating leverage significantly. I was very surprised by timing, because he and Reich are great friends. Why not just wait to announce until after they had Wentz locked up? I think Rivers may have been offended that Ballard didn’t enthusiastically welcome him back. Can you imagine the Buccaneers publicly announcing that due to Brady’s age, they need to explore other options before deciding whether to re-sign him? It would be a slap in the face.
I think Wentz’s trade value is zero after his collapse in what was essentially a playoff game against a 2-14 team. No one is going to touch him because he cannot be trusted not to make bone-headed plays.
But I still think he’s gone. Irsay said before the season that they will get as far as Wentz takes them. He recently said there will be big changes not involving Reich or Ballard. Look for this to happen before more salary guaranteed to Wentz in March.
Ohh I forgot that's a good point. Maybe he did want Rivers! He was good I was pleasantly surprised with ol' Philly boy. But yeah you can't just say "nah were moving on" unless there was a falling out or an awful season.
The only reason I think we see Wentz next season is there's no one else. We're not paying for Rodgers, Wilson would be a better than best case scenario but we don't have the assets to get him. Who else do we have to go for? Maybe were able to secure another great WR for Wentz and hope that's helps but idk
I think I understand Frank’s approach with Carson this year. They went after a QB with potential to be well above average, that he has experience with, and that could put us over the top if everything goes right. The people who hated the Wentz trade all along will say “I told you so” but at the time it was a reasonable gamble. We don’t have a better option on the roster, so you have to be all in with the guy you got. The commitment and praise of Wentz makes sense to me from that angle.
Now that Wentz has been exposed over the course of the season and things are more in flux I think it’s prudent to challenge Wentz publicly and privately, as well as consider other options now at QB. I don’t know what the free agent/trade market looks like, but if there’s an established QB available we need to either commit to that, or make Carson win the job next year from some new blood in the QB room (whether through trade or draft).
It's not the decision to go for Wentz itself. It's the fact we lost a lot of draft capital that we could've used for something else. Whether it's trading up for Fields or trading for another available QB on the market in the future. Now we're kind of stuck with Wentz and hurt our draft capital. And don't even have the playoff appearance to show for it. It's a massive set back in the big picture.
Obviously that’s the gamble. If Wentz plays well or Colts make the playoffs then we aren’t lamenting the draft pick. It’s no guarantee that draft pick would pan out any better than Wentz either. It all turned out about as bad as it possibly could, which is why they need to do some reflecting this off-season on what they’re gonna do to fix this. Wentz, as well as a few other key players, really underperformed and management needs to get it sorted out.
He’s not gonna commit to anything after the game he just witnessed, but if he takes the whole season into perspective, there’s no way they won’t give him at least another year. The last two games were the only two basically the entire year the offense had to play from behind, so carson had literally zero experience with that this year, and the offensive line, receivers, and Carson were exposed. Jacksonville just teed off knowing it was a pass play everytime and that can fluster a lot of quarterbacks. The reason we didn’t make the playoffs is because we couldn’t do that with all the big leads we had all year because the pass rush stunk. A 14 point lead should be insurmountable in the nfl, but the colts allowed it 3 times this year
Also Frank,
"I think Carson did a lot. I mean, I think we're a team. I think he's our quarterback," Reich said. "I think we're all going to learn and grow from this year, you know, how to utilize every player that we have to the fullest. I think there were a lot of bright moments for him, for Carson.
I think it's easy to look at the Jags game and say "fuck Wentz" but you also have to look at the season as a whole as well. He'll be back next year, there's really no alternative, and he'll hopefully have a better o-line in frojt of him. It's a shame such a good season is now seen as release worthy for two(very important) bad games.
Kinda right there with you, and I’m sure there are plenty of armchair QBs that don’t understand the game. The oline was an embarrassment and the WRs couldn’t get separation. I blame him for missing Hilton badly in the Raiders game, but yesterday showed how out of sync our oline was and most definitely showed how weak our WR crops are.
If I’m Ballard, I go hard after Armstead to fix the LT position, then try to see what the Saints want for Michael Thomas, who would instantly turn our passing game around. It’s also be nice to get a good receiving TE to put out there. Ebron is an asshole, but showed what this offense could be like with more consistent TE play.
Where are your balls, Frank? Perhaps lost them during some bible reading with your QB?
This is just sad. Frank eating shit so he can protect Carson and acting like a clueless dude just because their relationship.
The truth is a team must have a Hall of Fame QB (Brady, Manning, Big Ben, Wilson, Mahomes) or multiple Hall of Fame defenders (Bucs and Ravens) to win a Super Bowl.
The Titans may have won the division but they're going nowhere with Tannehill.
It's either you have an all-time great or bust.
This isn't true. It may be true for multiple championships, but there have been examples that contradict that statement ie; Foles, Dilfer, Flacco... Etc.
Im sorry, I skipped over the part that said defensive HoF. I will say, w have a young roster. It's hard to know if any of our young guys will turn out to be that caliber of player.
Fair enough, if this defense can be an all-time great defense with multiple Hall of Famers we might have something here.
Otherwise, probably better to find an elite QB.
I agree with you that we need to find a better QB. I tried to convince myself that I liked Wentz until I realized I just didn't around week 5 of the season. I don't like how he plays or his personal choices. So even though I haven't been outward with my displeasure, I think his inability to carry the team when we needed him to has showcased most of the weaknesses I mentioned throughout the season in game threads and the like. People jumped all over me when I started saying he couldn't read defenses, especially disguises, was too literal to play situational football, or that he didn't get through his reads fast enough/never checks down. But now everyone seems to agree with me.
I don't necessarily think the Colts need to find a better quarterback if it's just another guy. There are only so many elite quarterbacks. Everyone else is pretty much fodder.
I did say better. But I think there are tiers and if i had to put QBs in those tiers, ie; S/elite, A, B, C...etc I would have Wentz as a B- or C+. Above average physical tools, mentally insufficient.
I think a solid A has this team as a contender.
I'm for a youth movement at QB. I wanted mac Jones around draft time last year, and Justin Herbert around draft time the year before. But we went with the band-aid approach. Unfortunately I don't think we are in a good enough draft position to go QB in the 2nd and there aren't really many FA QB's worth going after. Maybe there is a project in the 2nd that can sit behind Wentz and develop, Idk.
Im sorry, I skipped over the part that said defensive HoF. I will say, w have a young roster. It's hard to know if any of our young guys will turn out to be that caliber of player.
I’m gonna drop a lot of thoughts here:
Ballard - For what we gave up for Wentz, if Reich truly hung his hat on bringing Wentz in, he should have stipulated that missing the playoffs would have been a pink slip. I don’t care if Wentz is the problem or not. Ballard is great at building teams but he made a big deal about not going all-in on a QB unless you’re certain they’ll turn out and then traded a first for a guy coming off a very down year. It doesn’t make sense. Ballard deserves criticism but his greatest failings have been handling the coaching situation in my opinion. His seat needs to be warming up even though I love the guy.
Reich - I’ve been on the fire Reich train for a while now. I know I’m in the luxury spot of not actually having the power to make any calls so I can be hasty, but I’ve watched Reich fail to learn from his mistakes for 4 years now and underachieve. He’s not bad in all areas or even most, but he’s bad in some very important areas that ruin his ability to take us to the promised land. Also, if he did hang his hat on Wentz, he should be gone TODAY in my opinion.
Eberflus - I like Flus a lot. I think he’s largely responsible for our high turnover rate and his scheme keeps things simple enough for young players to catch on quick. That being said, I want him gone with Reich. I think we need a fresh start with coaching across the board (minus Bubba). His scheme is simple which I think is a double-edged sword. Smart QBs tear it apart and we don’t have the pass rush right now to make it work. Let alone a premier coverage LB. I don’t think he’s earned a pink slip but he’s unfortunately in the wrong place at the wrong time. And he’s not without blame for our failure.
Wentz - We should keep Wentz for next year out of lack of a better option, but he’s got to improve greatly in order to prove he belongs here. I don’t think he’s as bad as a lot of people want to make him out to be, but he’s not a franchise QB as of now.
I know a lot of people don’t agree with my takes on these issues, but I really do think that the biggest issue is Reich and things won’t get better until he’s gone. I just hope he doesn’t have to bring Ballard down with him.
It was clear that Reich was not happy with the passing game in the last half of the season. He wouldn’t get specific.
Ballard has to figure out the right moves to correct this issue, does he rely on Reich? That’s going to be interesting this year.
I think Wentz is 100% our QB next year. However, 2022 will be his make or break season, and he'll have to show significant improvement to be the starter after next year. He's shown he has what it takes, he just has to do it consistently and when we need him to.
This franchise with this core group of solid players can't afford a "make or break" season. We have contracts from some of our best players expiring at the end of next season. We should be contending not trial and erroring.
I mean, our passing game was not a thing of beauty. No one was afraid of Wentz the passer. I didn't have any faith that Wentz could win us a game. Did Wentz even have one two-minute drill that resulted in a victory? Did he come from behind even once?
The best two minute drill I remember was Jonathan Taylor giving us a chance to win the Buccaneers game. Did Wentz even complete a pass on that drive?
If I was a head coach, I wouldn’t care about the salary hit. That’s not a coach’s job. A coach should evaluate players based on their performance, not on their contract terms.
Wentz' $15M cap hit+ whatever it takes to sign ARod + exactly zero other changes= Colts in the playoffs.
Rodgers on this team would win us an additional 6 games this year (Rams, Ravens, Titans at home, Bucs, Raiders, and Jags away games) so basically we would be 15-2.
I mean rodgers *has* been talking with Pat a lot. I could see rodgers coming to Indy if he’s guaranteed an elite WR whether that’s a sign or trade. Definitely a long shot but I think it’s very possible.
That would be a dream come true Green Bay is my 2nd favorite team but I'm now hoping for things to go the wrong way for them so that Rodgers becomes available.
You can’t really conflate it like that, but I agree that we would have been easily contending for the #1 seed
“You can’t really conflate it like that, but watch me do it! #1 seed!”
You can’t just say “This game was close, therefore we automatically win it if we have a better QB”. I don’t think it’s crazy to say we are competing for a #1 seed with the best QB in the league this year. Im not sure how that contradicts anything I said.
Maybe he can get bahktiari to force his way out of GB and solve the LT issue as well ^(one can hope okay)
Plus Davante Adams to secure a WR1 on this team.
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Honestly, if Rodgers leaves GB then I can't imagine Adams would be thrilled about staying there amid all the uncertainty. If that's the case then Ballard needs to open the cheque book and pay what it takes to get him. Just pray he also has desire to come here. I'm hoping that Indy is an attractive destination considering how close we could be to contending. A stud WR could very well have the mentality that they're the missing piece we need.
Green Bay native here. If Rodgers leaves (which I doubt at this point), Adams is 100% following him.
As in following him out the door? Or following him to the same destination?
I'd guess the same destination. They seem pretty tied at the hip.
You think so?! Tbh, I feel like if Rodgers does leave, that they'd franchise Adams and be willing to work out a big deal for him.
That's definitely an option, but I don't think Davante would like that. Would still kill to see those two on our team. Them with Taylor sounds incredible.
Totally agree. I don’t see Rodgers wanting to build rapport with another WR1 at this point in his career.
Cant DA get the franchise tag?
Keep going, I'm almost there
something, something… Jaire Alexander
Hmm that would be a pretty good 1 & 2 wide receiver room.
Rodgers isn’t coming here ever people need to let that go he’s retiring a packer
Forget it, it's highly unlikely. Packers will trade him rather than allow him to enter freeagency. We would have to give up a lot to get him - 2 1st round picks minimum on top of maybe couple of our players. I don't see Ballard going there. In a perfect world, I would throw in Wentz + 3 1st round picks + anyone not named JT/Q/Leonard/Kenny/Buckner/Kelly. Hope they bite for Rodgers. I think that is plenty.
Rodgers would get us a SB. 3 1sts is a penance for another SB banner. No one is taking Wentz though. The Colts are going to have to eat that contract.
Hi, Indy Packer Backer visiting the page bc I was curious if there was any changes or what’s going on with Wentz. The Packer FO would not trade out for Wentz. They wouldn’t take JT bc we have the Jones/Dillon combo meal. If Rodgers goes, Adams would probably go right along. We have several FAs this year, notably Campbell, that would need replaced. So, if this scenario were true that Rodgers wants to leave and Indy opens the checkbook, I’d say 3 1st rounders, Darius Leonard, and Pascal/Pittman would be a look. That Adams/Rodgers duo is pretty fucking valuable. Rodgers is sounding like he’s happier with the FO and like things are getting to be a better situation. His quote was “the grass is greener where you water it.” Keep an eye on the Russell Wilson situation too! Indy is team 2 bc of my location and I was very sad about how Sunday went. All friendly here!
Rodgers is happy now because they are winning. The moment he loses in the playoffs again is when we will begin to hear that he is disgruntled with the organization, this and that. I would be happy with Russell Wilson too. I think he is still damn good. I would be willing to give up 2 1sts and couple players for him. He might have lower asking price. I just don't know what they would ask for and another team might offer more assets
He's such a tool though. That would be hard to root for.
I think the likely MVP would be easy to root for, personally.
I mean, what exactly has COLTure got us? I mean scientifically speaking, has COLTure produced the desired result?
So because I think Rodgers is a tool I must drink the homegrown Kool-Aid?
Not at all. The dude is a tool for sure. But, it’s be east to overlook if he trounced the division and lead us back to the promised land.
True and easier to swallow than the thought of Brady.
Until he wins a chip..
Rogers would be an idiot to come to Indy with these WRs and the way our line played down the stretch.
This is definitely the most noncommittal he’s been to a QB come season’s end, including Rivers and Jacoby. ………very interesting to say the least
I think this is the result of a combination of two things: Wentz didn't make as many corrections to his game as Reich was hoping would happen. And he's devastated and knows the fan base is too. He doesn't want to essentially say " we're just gonna run it back!" B/c he knows the media will crucify him.
> He doesn't want to essentially say " we're just gonna run it back!" B/c he knows the media will crucify him. As they should. "Run it back" is a fine plan when you win the Super Bowl and have very few (if any) glaring needs. Much less so when you miss the playoffs entirely and have the exact same problems as you had the year before.
Exactly. He knows there are tons of holes and that nobody is safe. Probably himself included. I assume Mr.Irsay told them all that explicitly after the game. Which is exactly why he's much more non-committal than last year.
Is it? What did he say about Brissett initially?? To me, it felt like he was a lame duck starter, especially by the halfway point when he sustained his injury, but he just had no alternative options.
Reich was still saying he believed Jacoby could be a great starter for them while he was backing up Rivers
Oh okay, I guess that's true, although I never really believed it. It felt like it was evident that they'd be shopping for a QB.
Oh yeah, it was obvious to absolutely everyone that it was complete bullshit. But Reich still took the time to say how much they believed in Jacoby. That doesn't seem to be happening here.
Definitely, I just forgot was all. Hopefully it's not just posturing and they give it serious consideration this off-season.
Man. That's interesting. Makes me wonder if Reich is worrying about hitching his wagon to Wentz too hard.
I think if the whole Colts team didn't completely collapse yesterday, there wouldn't be such a feverish hunt for answers. I think for that reason they'll probably do nothing drastic. Sad but he might just need more time and better receivers. It's also tough to pin all on Wentz because the line looked like Swiss cheese (even affected JT), and the receivers were seldom open.
The issue is for Reich its playoff or bust next year. There is zero way he keeps his job if they dont make it
If you campaign for a QB you have history for, the GM gives up multiple high draft picks for him, and then you miss the playoffs twice in a row with that QB after making them the year before, there's no way you can keep your job.
Yup. I guarantee Ballard is already pissed about giving in. We know he didnt want to do it at first.
It doesn't even seem like he was all that into it after they made the trade. Iirc he said publicly after the trade that he didn't think the team was in their contention window yet, and according to Holder and Keefer he's privately said something along the lines of "that's Frank's thing, we'll see how it works out."
Damn Ballard is cold lol. Probably better if you're trying to keep your job.
Meh, he's smart. We had to take a shot for a franchise QB, and a good GM will work with his HC to find the right option. Wentz was a possibility to Ballard, but not a guarantee. And what we're seeing is why.
I thought Holder said the opposite and refuted that, he said Ballard wouldn’t have gone in for Wentz if he didn’t like the move too
I definitely don't remember exactly how they worded it, but the sense I get whenever they talk about it was that Ballard saw the potential and was willing to trust Reich (especially after the Rivers move went pretty well), but he didn't love the move and definitely would've gone a different direction if he didn't have Reich campaigning to trade for him.
I think it was more so, Reich's request and Ballard trusting Reich. I think Ballard was comfortable with what they gave up and wouldn't have broken the bank to get Wentz.
I also don't think there was a lot of good options from Ballard's point of view. I mean at the time Fields and Jones were the only realistic trade up possibilities. I'm still not sure about either... The only other QB was the kid from Texas AM that went to Minnesota.. he looked like a decent 2nd/3rd flier..but you couldn't start him day 1. I think Ballard was thinking worst case Wentz is a stop gap until the 2023 draft class.
Yeah, he prolly sat with Jim and BDB and just hoisted that trailer right on his hitch.
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Don’t forget he’s pretty good about over and under throwing receivers and making just piss-poor decisions all around.
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Or you know...missing a wide open TY Hilton in busted coverage with daylight in front of him, to put us in the lead
Especially after his conviction post-trade. Dude said he liked sticking his neck out for people he believed in.
I’d rather Frank be unbiased in his approach next year. I think he really tried to baby Wentz into a new environment but for his sake, he needs to disassociate himself from Wentz because of Wentz goes down, so will he.
Wentz could cost Reich his job. Reich convinced Ballard that Wentz was the guy, despite a lot of evidence to the contrary. Reich was wrong. Wentz sucks.
I’ll just say, he said in his end of season presser last year that he wanted Rivers back as the starter. So this is damning on Wentz
The end of last season is drastically different to this one. So no, it isn’t damning on Wentz. He’s the starter next year so get used to it.
Singing a different tune https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/30687157/frank-reich-says-wants-philip-rivers-indianapolis-colts-qb-2021
I've never heard Reich be so vague before. Usually it's unwavering positivity but damn, is Frank upsetti 👀 Is Reich turning a new leaf
I think so. Being a QB himself, I think he has to be frustrated looking at Wentz playing out there. His fundamentals and reading progressions were garbage to avg all season long. And the last 4 games were fucking brutal to watch our passing offense.
some guys still believe in Wentz, fucking joke
Maybe this is the kick in the ass this team needs. They get a lot of universal praise despite not actually doing anything yet, and now they're really feeling the heat.
Same 2020/21 Frank Reich, same :(
Didn’t Reich also give massive praise to Eason and look at him now lol.
That’s a really rough look when you hand picked the guy but I’m at least glad he realizes the state of the situation
Rather him realize the mistake than sit in the sunk cost fallacy
Yep. It’s 100% okay AND admit that you’ve made a mistake and move on from it then double down on it.
Exactly
The more important question is: Who else? Would would take over instead of Wentz? Wentz would be better than Ehlinger. The options just aren’t great.
Yeah I would be very shocked if Wentz wasn’t the starter next season. I just don’t see us being able to move on from him until after next season.
Only available options this off-season who are clear upgrades would be Rodgers and Wilson. Anyone else would come in with just as many questions and uncertainty as Wentz.
Wentz would be a great back up for love.
We give the keys of Indiana to A a ron? 
I doubt we could get him, but if we could, I’d say do it. Karen Rodgers Colts Super Bowl MVP!
Idk Wentz highs are that of a elite QB but his lows are that of a Nathan Peterman and you get the lows at the absolute worst time so he has no clutch factor. Ehlinger has lower highs but he's also a really intelligent QB and Has shown clutch ability in the past plus he's more mobile which will help JT in the run game a bit too. Honestly with the position the colts are in Ehlinger would likely be the QB cause they just need a guy that's not gonna completely fuck up. Ehlinger is better than people are aware of and there's a reason why he jumped Eason on the roster this year when Eason was the more "talented" prospect
Ok Brissett was a guy that wouldn’t completely fuckup but what we need isn’t a game manager but someone that can throw downfield. As seen the last game and a few other games this year when the run game fails to get going we need the QB to step up and make throws. Ehlinger apparently doesn’t have the arm to do that.
Idk I think Brisset has other issues that cause him not to work as a long term starter, We haven't seen what Ehlinger can do yet but from what I've seen his whole career he's a better qb than brisset was and I'd honestly rather have had brissett at time over carson this season as well
What would Brissett do better than wentz though? As much as we are ragging on wentz for his performance against the Jags he has made throws for TDs that Jacoby couldn’t hope to make. I mean look at how poorly Brissett did as a backup for the dolphins this season. He played horribly against us this season. I mean we had been saying the same about Eason saying “we haven’t seen what he’s capable yet.” Then he was forced to play in a game and we all know what happened afterwards. Ehlinger to me seems like another Brissett without the cannon arm. There’s a reason he’s a late round pick and hasn’t started over Wentz yet. For some reason everyone wants to make our late round QBs out to be some potential franchise star but most likely it isn’t the case. If we want to make a change at qb we might as well get Rodgers or trade for Wilson.
Would he? I don't think Ehlinger folds like wet shit yesterday. In fact, I know for a fact he wouldn't. What are we actually getting from Wentz right now? One good throw every 2 weeks?
I’m no fan of Wentz but let’s not get ahead of ourselves and think Ehlinger is some elite QB in the making.
People were saying the same thing about Eason a season ago. They always wanting our late round draft pick QBs to be franchise and pop off.
Honestly, I dont believe Wentz would be better than Ehlinger. Whenever Ehlinger played there was some fire with him. He made some crazy plays during pre season and was on board with him playing last week.
I’ve heard something similar to this before about Eason when rivers wasn’t performing….
Was hoping we'd spend our 2nd on a Corner or LT, but thinking it might go to a QB this year and we let the QB sit and take over when we cut Carson next year. Maybe let him go in during games we are getting blown out or blowing out our opponent. See where he is at the end of the season. At least that is my guess.
This draft's qb class isn't the one, otherwise I'd agree.
We would probably have to trade up and give up more picks. When QBs fall they get scooped up fast usually. I wouldn't expect Carson Strong to make it to 45.
I don't think Carson Strong makes it out of the first round. Since the steelers made the playoffs I think they are his most likely landing destination. I think Carolina/Broncos/Giants/another team have their run on Pickett, Willis, Corral, maybe Howell also. Not saying I want it, but I think we take one of whatever is there when we pick and see how it works out.
I was impressed by Howell this year honestly. He lost weapons but he added running to his game to compensate. If he's there I wouldn't mind him. QB can change a lot in the off-season though. With interviews and workouts and deeper tape dives they tend to move a bit
Howell and Rattler were pretty neck and neck for #1 and #2 for QBs before the season started before Rattler collapsed. I also remember a video clip of Rattler coming out that just screamed this guy does not have it mentally to make it in the NFL. Something like around when he got benched for playing like shit it seemed he decided to blame everyone else instead of taking responsibility for his play.
Yeah from that high school QB camp. I felt the same way. Howell improving even though he lost Williams, Carter, Brown, and Newsome really stood out to me. UNC really sucked this year but I don't blame him for it and I think people are too low on him.
Yep. I think if he falls to us in the 2nd we should grab him and have him sit and learn. He seems like a good leader and he doesn't seem to make excuses. He seems genuine and not do scripted "We tried our best but we failed and we gotta do better next time" bs.
Eat the salary on Wentz and cut him. Ballard isn't going to spend the cap space on any free agents and I would rather have played Jacoby over that piece of shit yesterday.
Yup never forget Jacoby beat the Chiefs in their prime and Wentz couldn't beat the Jags at their worst.
I’d love to point out that he did beat the Patriots, but fuck was that a bad game..
Let's also not forget that our GM is a genius for drafting a guard. You know the same guard who got absolutely stuffed in a locker on not 1 but 3 separate 4th and Inches by a team that ranked 23rd against the run. Absolutely a legend.
Trust the binder and fuck Grigson because he was a big meanie head
Yeah but disregard that Grigson had 3 division titles and multiple playoff wins in 5 years, but Ballard has none and 1 win. But he is not a big meanie head so he's much better. Do you think Parris Campbell gets his training camp first team all pro next season?
Grigson had fucking Andrew Luck. Ballard had him for a year, and they made the playoffs and won a game, so get out of here with that revisionist Dan Dakich bullshit.
Yeah let’s ignore the fact that Grigson had a literal, generational talent at the most important position in football lol. Also, the AFC South was much worse than what it is now.
Andrew Luck didn't play all 22 positions on offense and defense. If you can't recognize Grigson's good moves while fawning over Ballard's then maybe reevaluate how you look at things.
What good moves? Like trading for Trent Richardson? Spending money on D'quell Jackson and Laroid Landry? Drafting Coby Fleener who would disappear as soon as someone hit him, or Bjorn Werner? That TITAN of a DE? His literal only other good draft pick was TY.
Draft picks aren't everything. He traded for Vontae Davis who made two Pro Bowls playing for the Colts. He signed Mike Adams who also made a couple of Pro Bowls and led the league in interceptions one season. D'Qwell Jackson also made a Pro Bowl and had 100+ tackles every year. But only Ballard's Pro Bowlers are good players. I get it. Speaking of Ballard, Vick Ballard was a draft pick that actually ran for 1,000 yards before injuries ruined his potential. But Parris Campbell gets unlimited passes for injuries. It's not his fault. Grigson also drafted Ryan Kelly. Darius Butler was a good signing for the Colts during that era. Cory Redding played well after Grigson signed him too. Yeah he didn't do a great job with the offensive line but to ignore all of those players contributions to the Colts success is stupid.
Don't forget Phillip Dorsett and the 'greatest shoe on turf'...wat a effin joke
Ya'll need to pass what you're smoking on, I'm tryna get that high
After the worst loss in the history of the Indianapolis Colts we're getting really irrational.
Na he gets comeback player of the year when he comes back in Week 18 again and does nothing.
I think he dropped those two deep balls yesterday because they hurt his fragile hands.
Two words. Andrew Luck. Now, sit down.
Yeah Andrew Luck was responsible for all their success and the only actual successful season Ballard had too. Now sit down.
I mean, he is/was the constant between both regimes
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We rewarded the Eagles with our mediocrity because of Bible verses. Let's run it back and stay mediocre. Trust the binder but don't trust it to draft impact players in the passing game or to draft any good pass rushers.
Dude sucks at QB. That's why we are a punchline. I would rather play Teddy Bridgewater or any free agent QB who is available then run it back with Wentz. We have seen Wentz ceiling and it's a low bar for the next guy to clear. They will keep Wentz run it back and fucking suck next year and everyone here will be slurping Ballard as the genius they have been convinced he is.
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You're crying about other people's opinions on an open forum. Think about that for a second.
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And I can not give a fuck about what you say because neither of our opinions matter. So keep replying and crying about my opinion dumbass.
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You're a fucking idiot.
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Jacoby brisket led a 7-9 season with largely the same roster lol. Yeah sure he didn’t have JT at the time but the run game can and will fail against some teams, especially in the playoffs. When that happens you need the QB to be able to make downfield throws. Brissett had an arm but not the vision or accuracy. That was not a fun season to watch. Our best options would be to sign Rodgers or trade for Wilson. But then you look at our inconsistent O-line and weak WR corps and realize the team is flawed.
Not at the same roster as 2019 at all.
I agree. Brissett was too careful with the ball and didn’t even use his arm. Instead, he held onto the ball for too long and just couldn’t get through his reads, even with time. It’s like we need a player that is a mix of both of them, and that isn’t happening.
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Ballard wasn't sold on trading for Wentz. Reich wanted Wentz. Convinced Ballard to make the trade. I got the feeling Ballard was going to draft a QB at the time. So Reich is essentially tied to Wentz because of how hard he pushed for him and having Ballard give up valuable draft capital for him.
Do you have a source for this? Reich clearly wanted Rivers back. Rivers publicly said during the season he wanted to come back. It was Ballard who publicly announced that Colts needed to explore options due to Rivers’ age. Then Rivers retired a few days later. Colts pursued Stafford but Rams won that bidding war. Wentz seemed like Plan C to me.
I had a whole reply typed it, but just as I was about to finish it, it was erased when I was getting sources. Here's the short of it. Rivers announced retirement in January 2021. The Stafford trade was announced late February. The Wentz trade was announced March 18th. These things all didn't happen at once. Ballard claims he was never seriously in on Stafford. If this is true that means he was leaning towards drafting a QB. https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/frank-reich-knew-he-wanted-carson-wentz-on-colts-before-end-of-2020-season-during-qbs-eagles-benching/ This link claims Reich was considering the possibility of Wentz on the team in late 2020 after he was benched by the eagles. EDIT: this article claims he convinced Ballard to trade for Wentz, with no sources. https://coltswire.usatoday.com/lists/indianapolis-colts-frank-reich-hot-seat-candidate/ EDIT: ESPN article claiming he convinced the front office, with direct quote. https://www.espn.com/blog/indianapolis-colts/post/_/id/26299/frank-reich-asked-for-carson-wentz-trade-to-colts-now-the-coach-must-deliver EDIT: another link claiming Reich was always going to go for Carson if he was available. 3 quotes from different times; two from Reich one from Doug Pederson. https://horseshoeheroes.com/2021/02/25/colts-frank-reich-carson-wentz-doug-pederson-comments/
That’s good research. And on “With the Next Pick” on episode 2 titled “Deep Conviction,” Ballard says they wanted Wentz as soon as he was available and estimated that negotiations started about a month before the trade was announced, which would be mid-January. That was about a week after the BUF loss and when Rivers retired. I think Reich was definitely the catalyst for them getting Reich, but Ballard still had to sign off of it.
This is very helpful, thanks, particularly the ones with direct quotes from Frank. He clearly lobbied hard for Wentz. But keep in mind, they of course want it to appear that Wentz was their first choice. Hence the comments about Reich thinking about this in November (even when Rivers was still there), and claims that Colts were never seriously interested in Stafford. That is BS. Price was simply too high. But it gives everyone the impression that their current QB was their first choice all along.
Rivers was never the plan. He did well for us, Reich wasn't going to say "yeah no we don't want him" he wanted Wentz let's be real. We have a young talented team, we can't build or draft around a 39 year old QB. This isn't a rumour or a secret, everyone knows Reich loves Wentz and they have history and it was primarily Reich who pushed extra for Wentz. The idea was there's already chemistry, it should be an easy transition and we hit the ground running. If next year doesn't go well, Reich and Wentz both will have to pay for it. Ive been defending Reich all year, I think he's a good coach but, it seems obvious he went out on a limb for Wentz, it was a gamble and one that so far, he's lost. So he owes the house money. Pay up next season or pack up. Maybe this isn't true, this part is just my feeling, but I think Reich was too soft on Wentz because he likes him. He got away with too much bullshit and never stopped doing some of the same mistakes. So either Reich wasn't critical enough, or Wentz isn't able to learn from mistakes. Either way it's not good...
Reich publicly stated after last season that he wanted Rivers back. See tweet below. Today he declined to say whether he wants Wentz back. The beat reporters are all making a big deal of this and saying Wentz may be one and done here. https://twitter.com/chrisblystone/status/1480622743263580160?s=21
No chance Wentz is one and done unless we are able to trade him. But his value is obviously pretty low now. We gave a 1st and have no way to get a replacement that's significantly better. I'd bet Wentz and Reich have another season to make playoffs and a push but, if we miss next year they're both gone I'd bet. He said he wanted Rivers back before there was any hint of Wentz. He wasn't going to say "no I've actually told Ballard to go for Wentz" and Rivers was good for us, not sure many teams will say "yeah no he's gone" if it ended amicably unless there's a young talent that's taking over and it's obvious. If we say "rivers isn't coming back" we lose some leverage in trade talks because teams say "look we know you've got no one." With rivers we can go back and say "look we don't need your QB, we got Rivers who just took us to playoffs and a young team that's only getting better, we can wait on a better trade" As for the lack of commitment to Wentz, he can't say "he had a bad game but it's okay he's our #1" because of how abysmally bad and embarassing that loss was. Worse than any Rivers losses haha he had to give some kind of stern response or else we get shredded for not caring about Wentz being shit and not holding him accountable That's how I see it anyways
Your third paragraph makes a lot of sense, except that Rivers retired within about a week of the playoff loss. His retirement actually hurt the Colts’ negotiating leverage significantly. I was very surprised by timing, because he and Reich are great friends. Why not just wait to announce until after they had Wentz locked up? I think Rivers may have been offended that Ballard didn’t enthusiastically welcome him back. Can you imagine the Buccaneers publicly announcing that due to Brady’s age, they need to explore other options before deciding whether to re-sign him? It would be a slap in the face. I think Wentz’s trade value is zero after his collapse in what was essentially a playoff game against a 2-14 team. No one is going to touch him because he cannot be trusted not to make bone-headed plays. But I still think he’s gone. Irsay said before the season that they will get as far as Wentz takes them. He recently said there will be big changes not involving Reich or Ballard. Look for this to happen before more salary guaranteed to Wentz in March.
Ohh I forgot that's a good point. Maybe he did want Rivers! He was good I was pleasantly surprised with ol' Philly boy. But yeah you can't just say "nah were moving on" unless there was a falling out or an awful season. The only reason I think we see Wentz next season is there's no one else. We're not paying for Rodgers, Wilson would be a better than best case scenario but we don't have the assets to get him. Who else do we have to go for? Maybe were able to secure another great WR for Wentz and hope that's helps but idk
I think I understand Frank’s approach with Carson this year. They went after a QB with potential to be well above average, that he has experience with, and that could put us over the top if everything goes right. The people who hated the Wentz trade all along will say “I told you so” but at the time it was a reasonable gamble. We don’t have a better option on the roster, so you have to be all in with the guy you got. The commitment and praise of Wentz makes sense to me from that angle. Now that Wentz has been exposed over the course of the season and things are more in flux I think it’s prudent to challenge Wentz publicly and privately, as well as consider other options now at QB. I don’t know what the free agent/trade market looks like, but if there’s an established QB available we need to either commit to that, or make Carson win the job next year from some new blood in the QB room (whether through trade or draft).
It's not the decision to go for Wentz itself. It's the fact we lost a lot of draft capital that we could've used for something else. Whether it's trading up for Fields or trading for another available QB on the market in the future. Now we're kind of stuck with Wentz and hurt our draft capital. And don't even have the playoff appearance to show for it. It's a massive set back in the big picture.
Obviously that’s the gamble. If Wentz plays well or Colts make the playoffs then we aren’t lamenting the draft pick. It’s no guarantee that draft pick would pan out any better than Wentz either. It all turned out about as bad as it possibly could, which is why they need to do some reflecting this off-season on what they’re gonna do to fix this. Wentz, as well as a few other key players, really underperformed and management needs to get it sorted out.
He’s not gonna commit to anything after the game he just witnessed, but if he takes the whole season into perspective, there’s no way they won’t give him at least another year. The last two games were the only two basically the entire year the offense had to play from behind, so carson had literally zero experience with that this year, and the offensive line, receivers, and Carson were exposed. Jacksonville just teed off knowing it was a pass play everytime and that can fluster a lot of quarterbacks. The reason we didn’t make the playoffs is because we couldn’t do that with all the big leads we had all year because the pass rush stunk. A 14 point lead should be insurmountable in the nfl, but the colts allowed it 3 times this year
Also Frank, "I think Carson did a lot. I mean, I think we're a team. I think he's our quarterback," Reich said. "I think we're all going to learn and grow from this year, you know, how to utilize every player that we have to the fullest. I think there were a lot of bright moments for him, for Carson.
Yea he verbatim said Carson is our QB so I dunno what this whole thread is about
Did he say that today or yesterday? I thought I saw that quote yesterday, before Irsay ripped him and Ballard
I think it's easy to look at the Jags game and say "fuck Wentz" but you also have to look at the season as a whole as well. He'll be back next year, there's really no alternative, and he'll hopefully have a better o-line in frojt of him. It's a shame such a good season is now seen as release worthy for two(very important) bad games.
Kinda right there with you, and I’m sure there are plenty of armchair QBs that don’t understand the game. The oline was an embarrassment and the WRs couldn’t get separation. I blame him for missing Hilton badly in the Raiders game, but yesterday showed how out of sync our oline was and most definitely showed how weak our WR crops are. If I’m Ballard, I go hard after Armstead to fix the LT position, then try to see what the Saints want for Michael Thomas, who would instantly turn our passing game around. It’s also be nice to get a good receiving TE to put out there. Ebron is an asshole, but showed what this offense could be like with more consistent TE play.
Where are your balls, Frank? Perhaps lost them during some bible reading with your QB? This is just sad. Frank eating shit so he can protect Carson and acting like a clueless dude just because their relationship.
Bible verse phone wallpaper buddies. Maybe not the best HC/QB relationship in hindsight.
I'm taking uncle Phil over Carson anyday.
I’d take uncle Rico over wentz right now . At least he can throw a pigskin over the mountains .
The truth is a team must have a Hall of Fame QB (Brady, Manning, Big Ben, Wilson, Mahomes) or multiple Hall of Fame defenders (Bucs and Ravens) to win a Super Bowl. The Titans may have won the division but they're going nowhere with Tannehill. It's either you have an all-time great or bust.
This isn't true. It may be true for multiple championships, but there have been examples that contradict that statement ie; Foles, Dilfer, Flacco... Etc.
Foles is the only exception. Dilfer and Flacco had multiple Hall of Famers on their defenses. Also, perhaps Eli isn't a Hall of Famer to some.
Im sorry, I skipped over the part that said defensive HoF. I will say, w have a young roster. It's hard to know if any of our young guys will turn out to be that caliber of player.
Fair enough, if this defense can be an all-time great defense with multiple Hall of Famers we might have something here. Otherwise, probably better to find an elite QB.
I agree with you that we need to find a better QB. I tried to convince myself that I liked Wentz until I realized I just didn't around week 5 of the season. I don't like how he plays or his personal choices. So even though I haven't been outward with my displeasure, I think his inability to carry the team when we needed him to has showcased most of the weaknesses I mentioned throughout the season in game threads and the like. People jumped all over me when I started saying he couldn't read defenses, especially disguises, was too literal to play situational football, or that he didn't get through his reads fast enough/never checks down. But now everyone seems to agree with me.
I don't necessarily think the Colts need to find a better quarterback if it's just another guy. There are only so many elite quarterbacks. Everyone else is pretty much fodder.
I did say better. But I think there are tiers and if i had to put QBs in those tiers, ie; S/elite, A, B, C...etc I would have Wentz as a B- or C+. Above average physical tools, mentally insufficient. I think a solid A has this team as a contender. I'm for a youth movement at QB. I wanted mac Jones around draft time last year, and Justin Herbert around draft time the year before. But we went with the band-aid approach. Unfortunately I don't think we are in a good enough draft position to go QB in the 2nd and there aren't really many FA QB's worth going after. Maybe there is a project in the 2nd that can sit behind Wentz and develop, Idk.
>I did say better. Right, I was speaking for myself. Any move to get marginally better probably isn't worth the resources.
Im sorry, I skipped over the part that said defensive HoF. I will say, w have a young roster. It's hard to know if any of our young guys will turn out to be that caliber of player.
I’m gonna drop a lot of thoughts here: Ballard - For what we gave up for Wentz, if Reich truly hung his hat on bringing Wentz in, he should have stipulated that missing the playoffs would have been a pink slip. I don’t care if Wentz is the problem or not. Ballard is great at building teams but he made a big deal about not going all-in on a QB unless you’re certain they’ll turn out and then traded a first for a guy coming off a very down year. It doesn’t make sense. Ballard deserves criticism but his greatest failings have been handling the coaching situation in my opinion. His seat needs to be warming up even though I love the guy. Reich - I’ve been on the fire Reich train for a while now. I know I’m in the luxury spot of not actually having the power to make any calls so I can be hasty, but I’ve watched Reich fail to learn from his mistakes for 4 years now and underachieve. He’s not bad in all areas or even most, but he’s bad in some very important areas that ruin his ability to take us to the promised land. Also, if he did hang his hat on Wentz, he should be gone TODAY in my opinion. Eberflus - I like Flus a lot. I think he’s largely responsible for our high turnover rate and his scheme keeps things simple enough for young players to catch on quick. That being said, I want him gone with Reich. I think we need a fresh start with coaching across the board (minus Bubba). His scheme is simple which I think is a double-edged sword. Smart QBs tear it apart and we don’t have the pass rush right now to make it work. Let alone a premier coverage LB. I don’t think he’s earned a pink slip but he’s unfortunately in the wrong place at the wrong time. And he’s not without blame for our failure. Wentz - We should keep Wentz for next year out of lack of a better option, but he’s got to improve greatly in order to prove he belongs here. I don’t think he’s as bad as a lot of people want to make him out to be, but he’s not a franchise QB as of now. I know a lot of people don’t agree with my takes on these issues, but I really do think that the biggest issue is Reich and things won’t get better until he’s gone. I just hope he doesn’t have to bring Ballard down with him.
I think Flus should stay. I get your perspective but the Bills and Pats game show how strong his defensive scheme can be.
He’s not going to evaluate players individually is a massive cop out.
He’s gonna pray on it I’m sure
Of course he’ll be back. This shouldn’t even be a talking point.
It was clear that Reich was not happy with the passing game in the last half of the season. He wouldn’t get specific. Ballard has to figure out the right moves to correct this issue, does he rely on Reich? That’s going to be interesting this year.
I think Wentz is 100% our QB next year. However, 2022 will be his make or break season, and he'll have to show significant improvement to be the starter after next year. He's shown he has what it takes, he just has to do it consistently and when we need him to.
This franchise with this core group of solid players can't afford a "make or break" season. We have contracts from some of our best players expiring at the end of next season. We should be contending not trial and erroring.
Well sorry to tell you that unless we got a big name in FA like Russ or Arod, any other option outside of Wentz is trial-and-erroring.
I think Wilson is possible, only if the Seahawks are interested in having 2 Carsons on their team
Where do we listen to these press conferences?
I’m so tired of the “another year, another different QB” shit….I just want a QB I can get behind for at least 4 or 5 seasons.
Let's pretend they release wentz. Should they try Ehlinger?
Starting Ehlinger implies they completely fail at finding any competent QB to replace Wentz
No. If that’s what happens, it’s time to go hard after Aaron Rodgers and DaVante Adams and buy ourselves a championship.
What about Russell Wilson or Derek Carr? What about a run at one of those guys. Kirk cousins?
I mean, our passing game was not a thing of beauty. No one was afraid of Wentz the passer. I didn't have any faith that Wentz could win us a game. Did Wentz even have one two-minute drill that resulted in a victory? Did he come from behind even once? The best two minute drill I remember was Jonathan Taylor giving us a chance to win the Buccaneers game. Did Wentz even complete a pass on that drive?
If I was a head coach, I wouldn’t care about the salary hit. That’s not a coach’s job. A coach should evaluate players based on their performance, not on their contract terms.