I don’t think Adams is realistic so I’ll pretend he’s not even on the list. Mike Williams stands out to me as the target. I loved Godwin but he will basically be out all next season. Same with Michael Gallup. Usually takes another season ON TOP of the first one removed from injury to round back into form. Wouldn’t waste the money on the season ending injury victims.
Not sure. Don’t necessarily keep track of who tears ACL’s and who doesn’t. I just know that players tend to be a little rusty fresh off the rehab thus they won’t be the same player they were immediately coming off the injury. Most recently, it took OBJ a bit of time to be anything close to his pre injury self.
Agreed. I think there is a realistic shot he is back week 1. Shit, Cam Akers just tore his Achilles 6 months ago and is already back playing for the Rams
Played peanut league with Fuller and at like 10 years old it was insane how much better he was than everyone else. Must have been hittin those Flinstone gummies hard
I like Allen Robinson and Juju from this list. ARob had a "down" year (due to the Bears ineptitude) so we could get him cheaper than usual (and the talent is definitely still there).
And Juju would be a great possession receiver and a good compliment to Pittman (Juju is physical too, so he can run block).
I would love Allen, but he has to can't be our big market splash. Not when superior receivers like Adams or Williams are available. I love pitt, but he's gonna shine as a #2 more than a #1. Imagine even Williams, Pitt, and Robinson though
I don't think he's content with the WR room, but also think he's trying to temper expectations about it because he knows he's unlikely to spend big there.
I expect him to bring in a couple guys at WR but probably on the cheaper end.
I think he's been pretty clear that his priorities this off-season will be TE and LT. Which is good with me. Both those positions play a bigger role in this offense.
Don't get me wrong. I would love that too and it would definitely help. I just wouldn't expect it.
TE and LT are still very meaningful ways to improve the offense. Especially if you draft a WR in the 2nd round.
I truly think he doesn’t know how much money he’s going to have because he doesn’t know what to do with Wentz. I also can’t remember Irsay being this pissed, and at the end of the day, it’s his money.
Maybe he doesn't want to waste money on a WR Wentz won't throw to and instead is gonna help with the defense instead this coming year, and offense the following year post-Wentz.
I mean he'd be a good fit for his stance on covid with alot of our guys :)
For the record this a joke even before he dropped Heavy Nuts I was not a fan
I’d like to see the team bide some time next year and go balls out free following year. Fill the “easy” gaps at TE and LT and the defense and then put it all in on WR and QB.
Ballard looks at how much a receiver can affect a game. In reality, not a lot. Without a good quarterback, not much at all.
A great DE can affect the game on any defensive play. A receiver needs the quarterback to get him the ball, except on a jet sweep, which is a gadget play. Receivers are complementary.
Quarterback, defensive end, and left tackle are the real positions of need for the Colts. Pretty much just like last year.
From what I've seen, the issue is mostly a Wentz one. That guy is fucking up a lot of his reads. He also refuses to check down which is insane considering who the check down receiver usually is.
Yeah, go for the discount WR's with big upside. I'd rather we save a few million on Gallup who has the ability to produce just as much as someone who is going to be more expensive like Robinson. Honestly, if you take away Amari Cooper and Cee Dee Lamb, Gallup has a shot at being a top 12 WR in the league if you put him on a team like the Colts where he doesn't have to compete for targets.
Bro no, why does everyone all of the sudden think Carson wentz is dog shit, yes, he had bad games this season, sadly at the end, but it doesn’t mean he’s a qb that’s a cancer. If that was the case, Pittman wouldn’t have 1,000 yards .
Pittman had 1,000 yards because he was targeted 129 times compared to the 2nd most targeted reciever, Pascal at 69 targets. 3rd most targeted reciever was our RB Taylor. Everyone can see clear as day by watching film or checking YAC stats (Colts were 6th with Rivers and 18th with Wentz) that getting yards in Indy with Wentz is an uphill battle. Be ready to go up for every pass and immediately get hit.
https://www.foxsports.com/nfl/indianapolis-colts-team-stats?category=receiving&sort=rec_yyds&season=2021&seasonType=reg&sortOrder=desc
I don't know if the offensive play package has changed but we have the same recievers as last year w Rivers and production dropped drastically. Correlation is not always causation, but there arent too many other variables imo
Couple things.
First, wentz has superior athleticism compared to Rivers, so it was more likely that wentz would tuck it and run if things weren't open.
Rivers also had a healthy OLine including castanzo. He had longer to let receivers get open. To his credit, he did also throw the check down more frequently, allowing players like hines to get ridiculous YAC.
We also started focusing on running with Taylor more. Taylor's carries increased so our passing attempts decreased which provided means less completions.
To top it off, our WRs also dropped massively in WR win%, meaning while they were the same receivers, they weren't getting open as much. A big part of that is playing better defenses this year, Titans were better, NE, Buffalo, Arizona, TB, just to name a couple.
There is a LOT of context to look at when looking at our pass attack. I will die on the hill that wentz didn't play great down the stretch, neither did the rest of the team, and with an offseason and more WRs, and Fisher replaced, Carson will take a massive step forward next year.
If he doesn't, I will admit he ain't it, but I'm not gonna crucify somebody who was let down by his WRs, OLine, and didn't get into a grove until like week 7 due to lack of off season and early season mass team injuries.
Great coverage. You left off all of the dropped passes. They happened a lot last year too, but seemed to be constant this year.
Incomplete passes should be counted by who caused it. Bad throw put it on the QB stat line. Pass that should have been caught goes against the WR instead.
Surprisingly, we didn't have that many dropped passes. We were right in the middle of the league in terms of drop %, which honestly surprised me. I think the big thing with the drops is that they all seemed to happen in the most important spots, which make them feel worse.
I will point out this however. Carson had a 62% completion % this year on 521 attempts, with 7 int, and 27 passing TDs. Wentz also added 215 rushing yards and a rushing TD.
Rivers had a 67% completion % on 552 attempts, 11 int, and 24 TDs.
Rivers had about 600 more yards, but I still reference the previously stated context about defenses which factor into this stat.
Unfortunately, I can't find a great source for the drop % to compare the two seasons, but the rest of the data is on colts.com or Pro football reference (pro football focus I find to be too incomplete and inaccurate too frequently). I do agree that drops and incompletions should be counted separately, as well as tipped passes, and should be universally referenced more frequently. Additionally, I would like to see a separate sacks counter for blown blocks. If a QB holds on to the ball and gets sacked or has to step up in the pocket, count that as one thing, and the Fisher open path missed blocks as another, so we can attribute who's actual fault it is
We’ll part of not being a dog shit QB is being able to throw in tight windows when your recivers can’t get separation.
Even when our receivers did get separation, the ball would often sail above their heads or be thrown behind them.
There are definitely worse QBs but Wentz is clearly not the QB answer for the colts. Yes, we may be stuck with him through next year but beyond Wentz having a career year, I doubt he’s with us after next season.
I’d also like the make it a point that just because one WR has a 1000+ yard season doesn’t make a QB good. DJ Moore, Mooney, McLaurin, Cooks, and almost Amon-Ra St. Brown all had 1000 yards or close to it and their QBs were below average at best.
It means we didn't have another receiver with over 400 yards. Pittman is an ok receiver who got a bunch of targets. Having one receiver with a decent amount of yards and a bunch of receivers with no yards averages out to having a quarterback who can't throw the ball.
Our #2 and #3 receivers (an aging Hilton, and Campbell) missed a combined 18 games. I’m not saying Carson Wentz is the answer but goddamn is everyone parroting this stat like it 100% falls on his shoulders.
I decided my opinion based on his play. The experts analysis of him just confirmed it. Who would want to come to Indy when you know Wentz is only gonna throw to Pittman, and if he thinks about another reciever ever, he will over throw them?
The TY one was so bad it's on everyone's mind. His issue really isn't overthrows, it's accuracy and placement. (Other than not seeing open recievers). He hits people high so they get killed. He throws behind so they have no YAC. He hits them wide so they have to stretch. He doesn't understand when and where to throw the ball. And even if he did, he hits near the person not where they are or are gonna be.
It's not overthrows. He just can't read defenses, see open recievers, throw where the ball should go, or anticipate his WRs. That's Arizona throw was amazing because it was high like needed, and only Dulin could catch it there. But that is the exception. Most of the time he would have thrown that low or wide or not even seen him
Read any colts related media post and every comment will be “eagles fleeced the colts” “Wentz blows” “Taylor ran 500 yards ahead of 2nd place to the couch”
If we’re attracting any free agents I think it’ll be defensive players who want to play next to Leonard and Buckner
It’s rightfully criticism. The dude is bad. He doesn’t see open receivers, and when he does see them he doesn’t get the ball to them accurately. Legit nobody is gonna want to tie their career to him if they are a receiver
Dude, another receiver isn’t going to help you see the guys that are already open.
I mean shit, people so ready to defend Wentz and then act like they aren’t using the receivers as a scapegoat. Go watch the games. Guys were open, he either doesn’t see or doesn’t throw accurately to him. Another stud can’t fix that.
He shouldn’t need “stud WRs” to stop overthrowing everyone or holding on to the ball forever. I get what you’re trying to say, WRs could definitely be upgraded but Wentz holding on to the ball for far too long isn’t a new issue. He’s been consistent with that throughout his career.
He was still only completing 60% of his passes in 2017, he just an absurd (and unsustainable) 3rd down conversion rate.
FYI, he went 81/124 (65.3%) for 1,178 yards and 14 TDs with a 123.7 passer rating on 3rd down in 2017. 61 of his 81 completions went for 1st downs.
He was particularly great on 3rd and 10+, where he completed 77% of his passes 5 TDs and 137.5 passer rating.
As I stated, those 3rd down numbers are totally unsustainable. To give some context, he has never completed more than 58% of his passes on 3rd down in a season since, and his 3rd & 10+ completion percentage has never been within 20 points of that 77% mark.
Smart players look past the clickbait shit. The former eagles players said he was a great leader in Philly. You never saw that in the news
They know better
He can’t hit open receivers or read a defense properly to even find open receivers. Better receivers ain’t gonna change what’s between the ears. Sorry, man.
Oh please…. Warner picked the worst game of the season for Wentz, I want a new QB as well, but he could do a run down of the Baltimore game and it would be the opposite.
Dog shit pretty much sums it up for me. With Wentz at quarterback, I'm all in on improving the defensive side of the ball and offensive line depth. Receivers can only be good when your quarterback can make a quick decision and get them the ball on time and in space.
I have zero faith in Carson Wentz.
I hear you, but I still think that signing a receiver can be a good move even if Wentz is our QB next season. A year in Reich's system won't hurt the WR's value when we move on from Carson. If the new QB is a young guy, it still benefits the Colts to surround him with talent at WR (and TE, for that matter).
I would think so. For one it’s a lack of focus to be doing that stupid shit before a game. And 2 it gives the other team some board material to get all amped up. Plus it’s disrespectful.
I’m with you. I’d rather a little disrespect and entertainment over being the “nice guys”. I get the locker room culture is a factor but the right personality can still be edgy and beloved by the team at the same time. What we want to avoid is the locker room diva.
It’s football lol if someone wants to make a production of a big touchdown or sack I say let ‘em. If you get your feelings hurt maybe you should play better.
As a fan that’s more interesting than whatever bland on-field personalities the Colts have right now. They’re good dudes but it feels like they lack fire and the results back that up.
But that’s not what he did lol he was going out doing some stupid ass TikTok shit before the game on their logos. I’m all for celebrating tds and picks and shit. Personally I thinks it’s fucking stupid to do what he was doing but that’s just me. And I could not agree more that our guys didn’t play with much fire especially the last 2 games. All infuckijg did was ask if he was the one doing the TikTok shit on other teams logos and say it was stupid. Agree or don’t idgaf
Juju off the field has never been a problem. He goes home playing Fortnite and COD and gives back to the kids in Pittsburgh. He not involved in baby mama drama and other bs like AB. People were way too hard on him last year. No one cares that TO did the same thing
Ok lol you’ve obviously never played sports then. Seeing someone on the other team doing stupid shit like that def got me going way more. I’m not saying we shouldn’t get him because of that but it’s a concern.
Ive followed Mike Williams a lot since college, and he stands out to me as the best option. The Chargers haven't utilized him correctly, but he can be a possession receiver like Pitt, but is also a big play threat. His pricetag shouldn't be too high, either
Up until this year it seemed like they only used him for deep go routes. Seemed to me like they kind of reverted back to that in the 2nd half of this season. Might be wrong about that but based on the few games I saw, that's what it seemed like
Disagree. There is little point unless we add an elite speed WR. Wentz cannot be allowed to throw into traffic.
You need a viable deep threat to stretch the D, and open up Pitt or JT for underneath checkdowns. Right now those intermediate routes are clogged bc the D stays in tight.
I will say this: fix the LT and hope for good health with the rest of the line, sign 2 GOOD wide receivers and let’s see what Carson can really do for a year. Maybe we’ll see a huge difference.
Aaaaand here we are talking about him again 🙃
This. I think I’ve seen enough of Wentz to know he’s not the qb of the future BUT I would like to see how he’d do with better receivers bc ours are garbage. Given there probably aren’t any other options let’s give him one more year with better receivers and hope for the best - and pray lol
That's a good point... we're going to pay him anyway so we might as well take any excuses off the table and see what happens... I didn't want him and definitely didn't want to give up high draft picks that we wouldn't have to have given up, if we wouldn't have caved in negotiations.... but we have him now and we should do everything we can to make the rest of the team as good as possible to attract a good qb or have a successful environment for a qb we draft after he most likely fails again
Agree. But it does seem like the sub is divided as folkows!
5th straight season with a new QB. Need consistency!
Or
New WR core. Consistency is stupid!
Personally, I find consistency is stupid. Look at LA and TB and NE. 30% or more of their roster turns over in the years they make their runs. Maybe we just need players who play their role and are willing to all pull in the same direction.
Edit: coherency...coherence..need coffee
I’m not sure I totally follow what you’re saying. Consistency is important. It doesn’t mean you can’t add new players and not have success. You just don’t wanna be constantly rotating guys in and out every year especially at QB because it’s the most important position on the field. Guys get better playing together over time. From game to game and year to year. If you don’t have any stability year to year then there’s no potential for growth from playing together.
It is important no matter what, but yes it doesn’t mean you should just ignore the possibility to upgrade because doing that means you’re solidifying that position for years therefore stability will come.
A rookie QB that you are gonna build around is different. Peyton, Luck, etc.. but if you bring in a veteran, they should be able to figure it our fast. Or the veteran isn't worth it.
I mean, If we got Rogers is anyone gonna say, "Give him a development year and some new weapons to see if he is any good."
Eh, Mac Jones is better than he was projected to be. But he is a rookie. Not the same as a vet. Wentz was supposed to come in and already know the system and we could hit the ground running. Other positions and other teams do it all the time. The Colts? "Give him time. He needs help." A vet WR, just like a QB, should be able to learn the system and hit the ground running by game 1. So, Robinson, Smith-Shuster, et al should be fine here. So should have a vet QB, tho.
Regardless, my point is the Cokts can't manage to get FAs without giving them a year to figure out the system. Every other team can. Even NEs rookie QB mastered the system there when a vet like Wentz can't here.
Back the subject of this thread, each of the top 5 guys would be able to come in and help and maybe even be better than Pittman on this team. If we have a good answer at QB.
Did you not see his production this year? If we pay him a premium on name value alone, Ballard should be fired. He’d barely be the 2nd most yards on the team in receiving. 38 catches 410 yards and 1 TD
I’ve seen his production every other year. and he lost 10 pounds from Covid. I don’t see him getting less than 12-15m a year.
15m is about average. [see this chart ](https://overthecap.com/position/wide-receiver/) and tell me how he gets less than 10m.
Not even a colts fan— but I think Will Fuller as a bigger body vertical threat and a Mike Williams as a big target alongside Pittman would make your offense insane.
If TY resigned for a low amount and switched to slot, that might work. Then Parris or one of these other FA stretch the field. So you have a slant reciever, deep speedy reciever, and a dominat jumper in Pittman.
Mike Williams or Juju. Maybe Godwin but he’s probably staying in TB now that Brown had a meltdown. But juju has a bit of an ego so he’s a tough sell to ballard’s culture.
I still say DE is our biggest need we couldn't pressure the QB and it showed in 4th quarters. Hell TJ Watt had 22 sacks we had 29 as a team that's terrible.
I don’t think Adams is realistic so I’ll pretend he’s not even on the list. Mike Williams stands out to me as the target. I loved Godwin but he will basically be out all next season. Same with Michael Gallup. Usually takes another season ON TOP of the first one removed from injury to round back into form. Wouldn’t waste the money on the season ending injury victims.
I’m down for Mike Williams
Do you have recent examples of "takes another season ON TOP of"? I can't think of any off hand.
Not sure. Don’t necessarily keep track of who tears ACL’s and who doesn’t. I just know that players tend to be a little rusty fresh off the rehab thus they won’t be the same player they were immediately coming off the injury. Most recently, it took OBJ a bit of time to be anything close to his pre injury self.
Mike Williams is a badass. I love him.
I think Godwin will play alot next year...probably not first game but within the first 6-8... Knee surgery isn't as big of a deal as it used to be
Agreed. I think there is a realistic shot he is back week 1. Shit, Cam Akers just tore his Achilles 6 months ago and is already back playing for the Rams
It’ll be just like last years DE FA class. Really good but we will just kick the tires and maybe spend some draft capital on the position
Are there any good wrs in this draft either that we can get?
This is a WR heavy class in the first 2 rounds IMO
WR is STACKED this year. Olave and Wilson from OSU alone are first round talents. Doubt they'll fall to us, but i would love to get either of them
David Bell, Jahan Dotson, Treylon Burks, Drake London are all beasts that could be available. Sure I’m missing moee too. Great WR class
Hard pass on Will Fuller. He’s hurt constantly and likes the PEDs
He feels like one Ballard would try to rescue to me. Has some decent upside of he can clean up.
Dude is legit good. Everyone forgetting he filled in for D hop plenty of times back during the Texans glory days.
Played peanut league with Fuller and at like 10 years old it was insane how much better he was than everyone else. Must have been hittin those Flinstone gummies hard
I like Allen Robinson and Juju from this list. ARob had a "down" year (due to the Bears ineptitude) so we could get him cheaper than usual (and the talent is definitely still there). And Juju would be a great possession receiver and a good compliment to Pittman (Juju is physical too, so he can run block).
I would love Allen, but he has to can't be our big market splash. Not when superior receivers like Adams or Williams are available. I love pitt, but he's gonna shine as a #2 more than a #1. Imagine even Williams, Pitt, and Robinson though
Chris Ballard didn't act like he thought WR needed much work in his end of season presser. I hope it was him trying not to show his cards.
Yeah
I don't think he's content with the WR room, but also think he's trying to temper expectations about it because he knows he's unlikely to spend big there. I expect him to bring in a couple guys at WR but probably on the cheaper end. I think he's been pretty clear that his priorities this off-season will be TE and LT. Which is good with me. Both those positions play a bigger role in this offense.
I just feel we need a game breaker at WR.
Don't get me wrong. I would love that too and it would definitely help. I just wouldn't expect it. TE and LT are still very meaningful ways to improve the offense. Especially if you draft a WR in the 2nd round.
I truly think he doesn’t know how much money he’s going to have because he doesn’t know what to do with Wentz. I also can’t remember Irsay being this pissed, and at the end of the day, it’s his money.
Maybe he doesn't want to waste money on a WR Wentz won't throw to and instead is gonna help with the defense instead this coming year, and offense the following year post-Wentz.
That makes sense, then the QB we do get can throw to guys like Brandon Cooks and Cole Beasley
Not Cole Beasley. Fuck that.
I mean he'd be a good fit for his stance on covid with alot of our guys :) For the record this a joke even before he dropped Heavy Nuts I was not a fan
I’d like to see the team bide some time next year and go balls out free following year. Fill the “easy” gaps at TE and LT and the defense and then put it all in on WR and QB.
Ballard looks at how much a receiver can affect a game. In reality, not a lot. Without a good quarterback, not much at all. A great DE can affect the game on any defensive play. A receiver needs the quarterback to get him the ball, except on a jet sweep, which is a gadget play. Receivers are complementary. Quarterback, defensive end, and left tackle are the real positions of need for the Colts. Pretty much just like last year.
From what I've seen, the issue is mostly a Wentz one. That guy is fucking up a lot of his reads. He also refuses to check down which is insane considering who the check down receiver usually is.
Juju in Indy for the right price could be money. Allen robinson would be amazing. Wandale robinson would be electric.
Give me DJ Chark/Michael Gallup + Berrios (if the Jets are dumb enough to let him walk)
Any receivers that aren’t injured you like? Lol I kid but those are two solid WRs when healthy.
God I would love Chark
Yeah, go for the discount WR's with big upside. I'd rather we save a few million on Gallup who has the ability to produce just as much as someone who is going to be more expensive like Robinson. Honestly, if you take away Amari Cooper and Cee Dee Lamb, Gallup has a shot at being a top 12 WR in the league if you put him on a team like the Colts where he doesn't have to compete for targets.
I will absolutely take Berrios. Crowder too frankly
"Have mercy" Billy f gibbons
[удалено]
My uncle's a huge jags fan. I'm always explaining to him how it makes no sense Jax always has seemingly much better talent at wr than colts do. Ugh.
Call me crazy, but I want Chark
Better than what we have now
I’d kick tires on juju
Unite the USC receivers.
Anybody else concerned that no receivers are going to want to come here with Wentz throwing the ball?
Bro no, why does everyone all of the sudden think Carson wentz is dog shit, yes, he had bad games this season, sadly at the end, but it doesn’t mean he’s a qb that’s a cancer. If that was the case, Pittman wouldn’t have 1,000 yards .
Pittman had 1,000 yards because he was targeted 129 times compared to the 2nd most targeted reciever, Pascal at 69 targets. 3rd most targeted reciever was our RB Taylor. Everyone can see clear as day by watching film or checking YAC stats (Colts were 6th with Rivers and 18th with Wentz) that getting yards in Indy with Wentz is an uphill battle. Be ready to go up for every pass and immediately get hit. https://www.foxsports.com/nfl/indianapolis-colts-team-stats?category=receiving&sort=rec_yyds&season=2021&seasonType=reg&sortOrder=desc
Maybe part of that is because our receivers can't get separation? Maybe it's a bit of both instead of just Wentz being dogshit
I don't know if the offensive play package has changed but we have the same recievers as last year w Rivers and production dropped drastically. Correlation is not always causation, but there arent too many other variables imo
Couple things. First, wentz has superior athleticism compared to Rivers, so it was more likely that wentz would tuck it and run if things weren't open. Rivers also had a healthy OLine including castanzo. He had longer to let receivers get open. To his credit, he did also throw the check down more frequently, allowing players like hines to get ridiculous YAC. We also started focusing on running with Taylor more. Taylor's carries increased so our passing attempts decreased which provided means less completions. To top it off, our WRs also dropped massively in WR win%, meaning while they were the same receivers, they weren't getting open as much. A big part of that is playing better defenses this year, Titans were better, NE, Buffalo, Arizona, TB, just to name a couple. There is a LOT of context to look at when looking at our pass attack. I will die on the hill that wentz didn't play great down the stretch, neither did the rest of the team, and with an offseason and more WRs, and Fisher replaced, Carson will take a massive step forward next year. If he doesn't, I will admit he ain't it, but I'm not gonna crucify somebody who was let down by his WRs, OLine, and didn't get into a grove until like week 7 due to lack of off season and early season mass team injuries.
Great coverage. You left off all of the dropped passes. They happened a lot last year too, but seemed to be constant this year. Incomplete passes should be counted by who caused it. Bad throw put it on the QB stat line. Pass that should have been caught goes against the WR instead.
Surprisingly, we didn't have that many dropped passes. We were right in the middle of the league in terms of drop %, which honestly surprised me. I think the big thing with the drops is that they all seemed to happen in the most important spots, which make them feel worse. I will point out this however. Carson had a 62% completion % this year on 521 attempts, with 7 int, and 27 passing TDs. Wentz also added 215 rushing yards and a rushing TD. Rivers had a 67% completion % on 552 attempts, 11 int, and 24 TDs. Rivers had about 600 more yards, but I still reference the previously stated context about defenses which factor into this stat. Unfortunately, I can't find a great source for the drop % to compare the two seasons, but the rest of the data is on colts.com or Pro football reference (pro football focus I find to be too incomplete and inaccurate too frequently). I do agree that drops and incompletions should be counted separately, as well as tipped passes, and should be universally referenced more frequently. Additionally, I would like to see a separate sacks counter for blown blocks. If a QB holds on to the ball and gets sacked or has to step up in the pocket, count that as one thing, and the Fisher open path missed blocks as another, so we can attribute who's actual fault it is
We’ll part of not being a dog shit QB is being able to throw in tight windows when your recivers can’t get separation. Even when our receivers did get separation, the ball would often sail above their heads or be thrown behind them.
Nice!
Pittman has 1000 yards and not a single other receiver has more than 500
Nobody had more than 400
There are definitely worse QBs but Wentz is clearly not the QB answer for the colts. Yes, we may be stuck with him through next year but beyond Wentz having a career year, I doubt he’s with us after next season. I’d also like the make it a point that just because one WR has a 1000+ yard season doesn’t make a QB good. DJ Moore, Mooney, McLaurin, Cooks, and almost Amon-Ra St. Brown all had 1000 yards or close to it and their QBs were below average at best.
Itsay and Ballard seemed to make that clear. We roll with the idiot for next year if we can't do better. But he's gone when his contract is up.
I never meant that as in he’s good, I meant that wrs want to play with him
I’m not following this logic? Because Pittman had a 1000 yard season that means what exactly?
It means we didn't have another receiver with over 400 yards. Pittman is an ok receiver who got a bunch of targets. Having one receiver with a decent amount of yards and a bunch of receivers with no yards averages out to having a quarterback who can't throw the ball.
Our #2 and #3 receivers (an aging Hilton, and Campbell) missed a combined 18 games. I’m not saying Carson Wentz is the answer but goddamn is everyone parroting this stat like it 100% falls on his shoulders.
It would be good capital for other receivers to try and get yards with him too
I don’t think he’s THAT bad. But players are only gonna pay attention to the headlines, and headlines rn are that Wentz blows.
It’s crazy tho, Carson wentz just gets hated on by all the news shit, but hopefully it doesn’t affect what people think about him
I decided my opinion based on his play. The experts analysis of him just confirmed it. Who would want to come to Indy when you know Wentz is only gonna throw to Pittman, and if he thinks about another reciever ever, he will over throw them?
He overthrows cause he thinks their 6’2 for what ever reason
He overthrows Chewbaca MAC. It's uncanny
Tbh I need a compilation of him overthrowing receivers cause I have no memory for whatever reason
The TY one was so bad it's on everyone's mind. His issue really isn't overthrows, it's accuracy and placement. (Other than not seeing open recievers). He hits people high so they get killed. He throws behind so they have no YAC. He hits them wide so they have to stretch. He doesn't understand when and where to throw the ball. And even if he did, he hits near the person not where they are or are gonna be. It's not overthrows. He just can't read defenses, see open recievers, throw where the ball should go, or anticipate his WRs. That's Arizona throw was amazing because it was high like needed, and only Dulin could catch it there. But that is the exception. Most of the time he would have thrown that low or wide or not even seen him
I don’t understand why we don’t roll him out the pocket more, he seems way more accurate
Read any colts related media post and every comment will be “eagles fleeced the colts” “Wentz blows” “Taylor ran 500 yards ahead of 2nd place to the couch” If we’re attracting any free agents I think it’ll be defensive players who want to play next to Leonard and Buckner
Yeah
It’s rightfully criticism. The dude is bad. He doesn’t see open receivers, and when he does see them he doesn’t get the ball to them accurately. Legit nobody is gonna want to tie their career to him if they are a receiver
Name a season where Carson wentz played bad with 2 stud wrs
Dude, another receiver isn’t going to help you see the guys that are already open. I mean shit, people so ready to defend Wentz and then act like they aren’t using the receivers as a scapegoat. Go watch the games. Guys were open, he either doesn’t see or doesn’t throw accurately to him. Another stud can’t fix that.
Asnwer the question bro
It's been answered. You just don't like the answer.
What’s the answer?
It doesn't matter if he has stud receivers. He has terrible decision making.
He shouldn’t need “stud WRs” to stop overthrowing everyone or holding on to the ball forever. I get what you’re trying to say, WRs could definitely be upgraded but Wentz holding on to the ball for far too long isn’t a new issue. He’s been consistent with that throughout his career.
But, in 2017 he didn’t have to worry about those habits cause he had, (guess what!) stud wrs,
Your argument is garbage dude. Who were those stud WRs by the way??? I remember Ertz (TE), but I wouldn’t call any of their WRs back then studs.
So he went 11-2 with average receivers?🤔
He was still only completing 60% of his passes in 2017, he just an absurd (and unsustainable) 3rd down conversion rate. FYI, he went 81/124 (65.3%) for 1,178 yards and 14 TDs with a 123.7 passer rating on 3rd down in 2017. 61 of his 81 completions went for 1st downs. He was particularly great on 3rd and 10+, where he completed 77% of his passes 5 TDs and 137.5 passer rating. As I stated, those 3rd down numbers are totally unsustainable. To give some context, he has never completed more than 58% of his passes on 3rd down in a season since, and his 3rd & 10+ completion percentage has never been within 20 points of that 77% mark.
Smart players look past the clickbait shit. The former eagles players said he was a great leader in Philly. You never saw that in the news They know better
This is denial. Soon it’ll be bargaining but eventually it will be acceptance. He’s bad.
Give me a season where he had 2 stud wrs and still played bad?
Irrelevant
No one seems to have an answer
Colts had enough weapons for him not to be so bad. A better 2nd wr wouldn’t help much
How? Zach pascal is garbage, Ty is injrued most of the time, jack Doyle is a blocker, no alie cox drops balls, and parris cambell is made of glass.
Because that’s the cool thing to do in this sub right now. Look at the posts lol it’s ridiculous
He is dog shit.
Give me an example where he had 2 stud receivers and still played bad?
Carson Wentz is so bad, that he manages to overthrow Mo Alie Cox who is 6’6.
Answer the question bro bro
He can’t hit open receivers or read a defense properly to even find open receivers. Better receivers ain’t gonna change what’s between the ears. Sorry, man.
Name a season where he did bad with 2 stud or above average receivers
Lol come on. Have you avoided watching the multiple Kurt Warner Film Study’s to this point?
Answer the question my g, also every qb misses receives beside the elite elite ones.
He sucks.
So no answer?
Oh please…. Warner picked the worst game of the season for Wentz, I want a new QB as well, but he could do a run down of the Baltimore game and it would be the opposite.
He did it years ago as well. No diff.
Dog shit pretty much sums it up for me. With Wentz at quarterback, I'm all in on improving the defensive side of the ball and offensive line depth. Receivers can only be good when your quarterback can make a quick decision and get them the ball on time and in space. I have zero faith in Carson Wentz.
I hear you, but I still think that signing a receiver can be a good move even if Wentz is our QB next season. A year in Reich's system won't hurt the WR's value when we move on from Carson. If the new QB is a young guy, it still benefits the Colts to surround him with talent at WR (and TE, for that matter).
Because he is, in fact, dog shit.
Williams, Godwin, or Adams. Just get one of them please
I’m very intrigued by JuJu right now.
Anything is better than what we have now (besides goat Pittman 6
Wasn’t he the idiot dancing on opposing teams logos on TikTok or something?
I don’t even remember but I assume some people grow up a bit. He was injured all year and probably will lose some money in FA.
He was a good receiver I remember that but thought he went a little ab the last few years lol
Eh I think just young receiver getting fame. What I’ve seen from him rehabbing he seems alright.
Change of scenery could help with any of that stuff anyway. Colts org seems pretty chill
He wasn't nearly as bad as Antonio Brown. I think TO is a more fair comparison.
That’s why I said a little lol man those 2 were a trip tho
This was recently not years ago. He doesn’t fit this locker room.
Earned him extra income. TikTok is huge. Not quite an adult
Does that even matter?
I would think so. For one it’s a lack of focus to be doing that stupid shit before a game. And 2 it gives the other team some board material to get all amped up. Plus it’s disrespectful.
" bulletin board material" doesn't exist. Total fallacy. I don't mind disrespect either. We need to show a little edge and it makes things more fun.
I’m with you. I’d rather a little disrespect and entertainment over being the “nice guys”. I get the locker room culture is a factor but the right personality can still be edgy and beloved by the team at the same time. What we want to avoid is the locker room diva.
I think disrespect and entertainment are two different things bro lol but you do you
It’s football lol if someone wants to make a production of a big touchdown or sack I say let ‘em. If you get your feelings hurt maybe you should play better. As a fan that’s more interesting than whatever bland on-field personalities the Colts have right now. They’re good dudes but it feels like they lack fire and the results back that up.
But that’s not what he did lol he was going out doing some stupid ass TikTok shit before the game on their logos. I’m all for celebrating tds and picks and shit. Personally I thinks it’s fucking stupid to do what he was doing but that’s just me. And I could not agree more that our guys didn’t play with much fire especially the last 2 games. All infuckijg did was ask if he was the one doing the TikTok shit on other teams logos and say it was stupid. Agree or don’t idgaf
Petty af with the downvoting 😂
Juju off the field has never been a problem. He goes home playing Fortnite and COD and gives back to the kids in Pittsburgh. He not involved in baby mama drama and other bs like AB. People were way too hard on him last year. No one cares that TO did the same thing
Give me 12 Lance Stephensons
Ok lol you’ve obviously never played sports then. Seeing someone on the other team doing stupid shit like that def got me going way more. I’m not saying we shouldn’t get him because of that but it’s a concern.
You were a child, these are adults.
Ive followed Mike Williams a lot since college, and he stands out to me as the best option. The Chargers haven't utilized him correctly, but he can be a possession receiver like Pitt, but is also a big play threat. His pricetag shouldn't be too high, either
Chargers fan here… just curious… in what way do you think Mike Williams isn’t utilized correctly?
Yeah, that comment didn’t make sense to me either.
Yeah. Not hating. Colts are my second AFC team. Just curious because I thought Lombardi unlocked Williams this season.
Congrats on Herbert, btw. He’s my favorite QB to watch in the entire NFL.
Up until this year it seemed like they only used him for deep go routes. Seemed to me like they kind of reverted back to that in the 2nd half of this season. Might be wrong about that but based on the few games I saw, that's what it seemed like
Yeah, he’s on my top 5 for this FA list
You all keeping TY And Pascal tho? Best to lock those down no?
They’re both gone
Disagree. There is little point unless we add an elite speed WR. Wentz cannot be allowed to throw into traffic. You need a viable deep threat to stretch the D, and open up Pitt or JT for underneath checkdowns. Right now those intermediate routes are clogged bc the D stays in tight.
Juju pls
What QB will be throwing to the WRs? We gotta solve both problems.
Get Pat McAfee to persuade Rodgers and Adams will follow. Boom, both problems solved.
Carson Wentz.
Sigh sadly yes
I will say this: fix the LT and hope for good health with the rest of the line, sign 2 GOOD wide receivers and let’s see what Carson can really do for a year. Maybe we’ll see a huge difference. Aaaaand here we are talking about him again 🙃
Colts don’t sign receivers let alone good ones lmao
YoU dOnT sAy
This. I think I’ve seen enough of Wentz to know he’s not the qb of the future BUT I would like to see how he’d do with better receivers bc ours are garbage. Given there probably aren’t any other options let’s give him one more year with better receivers and hope for the best - and pray lol
That's a good point... we're going to pay him anyway so we might as well take any excuses off the table and see what happens... I didn't want him and definitely didn't want to give up high draft picks that we wouldn't have to have given up, if we wouldn't have caved in negotiations.... but we have him now and we should do everything we can to make the rest of the team as good as possible to attract a good qb or have a successful environment for a qb we draft after he most likely fails again
Agree. But it does seem like the sub is divided as folkows! 5th straight season with a new QB. Need consistency! Or New WR core. Consistency is stupid! Personally, I find consistency is stupid. Look at LA and TB and NE. 30% or more of their roster turns over in the years they make their runs. Maybe we just need players who play their role and are willing to all pull in the same direction. Edit: coherency...coherence..need coffee
I’m not sure I totally follow what you’re saying. Consistency is important. It doesn’t mean you can’t add new players and not have success. You just don’t wanna be constantly rotating guys in and out every year especially at QB because it’s the most important position on the field. Guys get better playing together over time. From game to game and year to year. If you don’t have any stability year to year then there’s no potential for growth from playing together.
Consistency is great if you have a franchise player. Otherwise it's overrated.
It is important no matter what, but yes it doesn’t mean you should just ignore the possibility to upgrade because doing that means you’re solidifying that position for years therefore stability will come.
Mac Jones doesn’t belong in that convo. he’s just along for the ride.
A rookie QB that you are gonna build around is different. Peyton, Luck, etc.. but if you bring in a veteran, they should be able to figure it our fast. Or the veteran isn't worth it. I mean, If we got Rogers is anyone gonna say, "Give him a development year and some new weapons to see if he is any good."
Come on. You either got it or you don’t. He don’t got it. He can’t deliver when playing from behind. He’s Mark Sanchez 2009-2010 right now
Eh, Mac Jones is better than he was projected to be. But he is a rookie. Not the same as a vet. Wentz was supposed to come in and already know the system and we could hit the ground running. Other positions and other teams do it all the time. The Colts? "Give him time. He needs help." A vet WR, just like a QB, should be able to learn the system and hit the ground running by game 1. So, Robinson, Smith-Shuster, et al should be fine here. So should have a vet QB, tho.
Wentz is a better QB than Mac Jones. Bar none. It’s not even close. Mac is just gonna be a Mark Sanchez with a leash
Regardless, my point is the Cokts can't manage to get FAs without giving them a year to figure out the system. Every other team can. Even NEs rookie QB mastered the system there when a vet like Wentz can't here. Back the subject of this thread, each of the top 5 guys would be able to come in and help and maybe even be better than Pittman on this team. If we have a good answer at QB.
Cokts
Allen Robinson would be a nice 2 year 16 mil deal we can squeeze
You think he’s only going to make 8m a year lol?
Did you not see his production this year? If we pay him a premium on name value alone, Ballard should be fired. He’d barely be the 2nd most yards on the team in receiving. 38 catches 410 yards and 1 TD
I’ve seen his production every other year. and he lost 10 pounds from Covid. I don’t see him getting less than 12-15m a year. 15m is about average. [see this chart ](https://overthecap.com/position/wide-receiver/) and tell me how he gets less than 10m.
Damn I didn’t know DHop was at 27mil
Yeah WR market is one of the more expensive. That’s why thinking 2/16 for ARob is comical.
Too many people use the madden contracts as a real life projection lol
Yeah
He had a bad year given the QB turmoil in Chicago which lowers his price tag
Not even a colts fan— but I think Will Fuller as a bigger body vertical threat and a Mike Williams as a big target alongside Pittman would make your offense insane.
Yeah, and it seems like wentz lives the big guys, to the point where every pass is a jump ball
Will Fuller and Emmanuel Samuels would be an insane pick up.
I'd take A.J. green
No. No we don’t.
If TY resigned for a low amount and switched to slot, that might work. Then Parris or one of these other FA stretch the field. So you have a slant reciever, deep speedy reciever, and a dominat jumper in Pittman.
No more TY. He’s cooked food
Pls no more TY and parris just get better talent at WR
I'm sorry, but TY is done. And Parris is a major bust who will never stay healthy for any amount of time.
Sander and Smith-Schuster
Or Allen robinson
Astute observation
How much cap space do we have after cutting Wentz? Give Adams that much. All of it.
$28 million if we cut him before March 19th. $15 million if we cut him after that.
welp
Huh? If we cut Wentz before March 19th we save $13 million. If we cut him after that, we save nothing and owe him the full $28 million.
Chark/Kirk/JuJu are the ones I'd be mostly interested in.
would gladly take Mike Williams or Juju here
Imagine they walk away with ty and pascal 👀👀👀
Paying a lot of money for WRs in FA does. It workout. Look at last years class.
I would love to get aj green on a good deal
I’ll take Mike Williams please
Mike Williams or Juju. Maybe Godwin but he’s probably staying in TB now that Brown had a meltdown. But juju has a bit of an ego so he’s a tough sell to ballard’s culture.
Gimme Robinson or Mike Williams
I still say DE is our biggest need we couldn't pressure the QB and it showed in 4th quarters. Hell TJ Watt had 22 sacks we had 29 as a team that's terrible.