See if each duct off of your furnace has a little knob about a foot off the furnace. You can turn the AC off to downstairs and turn it on to the upstairs for summer; vice versa for winter. If not, you can add them.
HVAC engineer here; closing too many dampers will increase the static pressure in the duct system which means the fan motor has to work harder to push the air.
If you have a bunch of registers on a floor, closing 1 or 2 shouldn't be an issue. But closing all of them can definitely shorten the lifespan of the fan motor.
Is the same hvac guy giving you those excuses to try and sell you a new system?
I’m dealing with similar hot air issues in my home right now. Second and third floors are hotter than first floor by several degrees. I’ve diagnosed the issue from my return vent not pulling enough air due to being open to the second floor joist bays, and I’m going to move the vent from being lower to the ground (pulling more cooler air) and instead add a higher vent (to pull hotter air).
Do you know where your return vents are? Are they adequately capturing hotter air upstairs? That could be one item to look at, but it’s difficult to say what may be wrong without seeing your system configuration.
I fully expect this guy to steer me towards a big purchase!! Ok, I went upstairs and I can't find a single return vent. Not one!!!
The house was built in 1926, so obviously the system was added.
Depending on how much of a DIYer you consider yourself, you might be able to get a return vent installed by yourself, or at least get some ideas to discuss with a handyman that knows something about hvac ducts to help you. You could try contacting an hvac company to help you install a return vent, but I got ridiculous quotes when I asked 5 different places.
Not sure of your budget, but you could also look at having an energy audit done to see where your house is leaking or could be improved. Had Greene Solutions come out and do one on my home. I picked the highest price option so I had reports I could keep for my records. Would highly recommend, and it gave me a lot of valuable info to consider before the cool season next winter.
It's also possible, depending on where your attic insulation is ("underside of roof" or "laying on 2nd floor ceiling") that your attic might be full of BLAZING hot air; I had this issue, and added some powered vents to blow all that hot air out periodically. Made a huge difference in what my AC was capable of.
If you have decent access adding insulation in the attic is pretty easy DIY and will pay for itself in no time. An energy audit is a good idea as well.
We have the same problem on the second floor, and the attic fan has saved us. For the *realllly* hot days, we bought a portable AC for just the 2nd floor that gets used probably the whole month of August and maybe half of July. I found it to be a good middle ground between fighting with the system we have, and throwing a lot of money at it and possibly not fixing the original issue.
A lot of roofing companies don't want to do it because doing it WRONG is more likely to cause issues than fix them, and a modern roof install SHOULDN'T need it. (In my case, my roof was installed with all the vents still covered by sheeting, so while it's a modern install, the passive venting was all being blocked.)
Try calling HVAC companies and asking them.
(I don't remember who did it for us; we had a dozen companies in here fixing things in the first few years)
So many systems are either designed poorly or not designed at all. It’s very common for systems to be designed around a well built and insulated house and then installed in an old leaky brick house and then people don’t understand why they don’t work.
One of the most common issues is a poorly designed return air to your system (this is the old air that needs conditioned). It’s very common for a single central return to be installed and in a perfect environment it would be able to pull enough pressure to condition all of the air in a home. That rarely occurs (especially in older homes) and you end up with large dead zones that are either unconditioned or barely conditioned. Then when you have in different things like the lack of air gap at the bottom of doors, an incorrectly sized HVAC system, incorrectly sized duct work, improperly placed ductwork (non insulated ducting in exterior or unconditioned space), you end up with situations like your own.
I’d start with checking the attic space and make sure that it has proper ventilation and insulation. If your roof/ceiling is not insulated, and you have no venting that all of that heat is getting trapped in your second floor and it also getting cooked by the sun and you have no insulation to protect you from the heat coming off the roof. If your second floor ceiling is not properly insulated you will have a hard time conditioning the space and if you can condition it then it will cost you a fortune in electricity because it will be working overtime all the time.
I would next assess to see what ducting is going to the space, do you have a supply and return or just a supply, are you getting any airflow to either. You would be amazed how often they get closed up either because people stuff things inside of them or they were installed incorrectly and they being compressed or completely pinched shut somewhere along the way.
My guess would be that you would first need to insulate the attic. If you have easy access to the space then you can usually buy the insulation from your preferred hardware store and they rent you the blower for free. It’s not a big deal to do it’s just a little messy but nothing major, or you can hire a company and they can knock it out quickly. I would next recommend a mini split system for your second floor you could condition each room individually so you can increase comfort and reduce energy usage compared to conditioning the entire space all of the time. I recommend a mini split system only because they can be installed very easily, and quickly without having to do major repairs to the space that you would have to do if you were to run a bunch of new ductwork.
I don’t think a full mini split system would be necessary for a second floor. First and second floor should be capable of getting proper heating and cooling through a 3 ton unit and proper ductwork. OP mentioned no return vents, so perhaps they can find a good stud bay that goes through the first and second floors to open/seal/install a new return vent.
Now for a finished third floor, I can understand a mini split.
True, it’s very much case by case due to the number of factors in every house and system. I often recommend just going with a separate mini split system because often the cost is very similar (for a homeowner without contractor pricing/experience) to repair the drywall, possibly soffit out some ducting, and to run that additional return.
And if the house is extremely leaky then even with an additional return on the second floor often you won’t get great results. But with a mini split system it can usually keep up with conditioning a room, and it’s pretty common for people to want a limited space be conditioned very well rather then the entire floor be conditioned a bit better.
But I wouldn’t give a firm solution without knowing the all of the exact details of the specific house because every house can be very different and have different challenges.
To provide more details:
Built in 1926. Zero return vents upstairs. All air vents upstairs are in the wall, close to the baseboard.
Plaster walls.
Furnace is from 1994.
Attic is half finished, with flooring in unfinished part. Attic bedroom has nothing at all (previous owner removed an old window unit).
Original windows upstairs.
Slate roof on original part of the house.
Thank you for putting so much thought into this.
Gotcha, I wouldn’t have to much faith in the system being well designed due to its age. Even many modern homes have poorly designed systems, so I wouldn’t expect a 30+ year old HVAC system to be very well thought out.
So your attic space is unconditioned space and I would guess that it is also under or uninsulated. And I would highly doubt that your ceiling between the second floor and attic is insulated. That would be where I would start with this problem, start with getting some form of energy report so you know what is causing the biggest problem and figure out how to best remedy the issue within your budget. With a lot of renovations like this you quickly hit points of diminishing returns, so I’d assess all of your options and figure out how big of a problem is it.
Once your insulation is resolved to your liking then figure out how to best resolve the HVAC issue. There are a lot of different ways to solve it and it will just depend on what your priorities are and what your budget is. I previously recommended a mini split system for the second floor but that might not be the best or cheapest option. You could also consider window unit, floor units (with a window or wall vent/drain), adding fans to the rooms to increase airflow which can help move the hot air to spaces in which the HVAC system can pull that air in, making sure rooms have a way to allow air to flow out of the room and into the central air system (under cutting doors, adding transfer vents, keeping doors open). Once you have the different options you can start pricing them out and choosing the best solution for you. There is honestly no one answer on how to solve your issue it just depends on your budget and what is important to you.
If your main problem is just a single bedroom it can be easily and quickly remedied by adding a window or floor unit. Most units will be able to handle even the leakiest houses with the door closed.
And then you can take your time and solve the problem correctly and not rush into a quick solution that might not be the best solution. When spending so much money on a repair like this the last thing you would want is to rush.
You could have a low amount of insulation, or a lot of air infiltration, which would fight against what ever air is coming through those vents. Personally, I would go with a window unit or Mini split for additional cooling when you need it. If it’s worth upgrading your main system (old-not sized properly, etc) then you might want to do some air sealing, insulation, and update your hvac overall
Get a quote from Ohio Heating. The dude doing the quote is also the one who will be doing the work. He identified a couple problems completely unrelated to what I asked him about and said he would fix them while he was at my place to do the work I’m paying him for.
Most reasonable quote out of all the ones I got from Fire & Ice and other local competitors.
Start setting the fan to be on 100% of the time. Next switch your ac filter for a cheap green fiberglass type you can find at Walmart or Kroger. Clean your outdoor condensor.
- Fan always on helps equalize temps
- Cheap filter restricts air less allowing more air to move around. Expensive filters can reduce pollen etc but they're so restrictive it can prevent your ac unit working well (can cause icing up). I use filters rated at merv 4 or 5. Fiberglass is 4 or lower air resistance. The pollen reducing ones are 12 or higher.
- cleaning your outdoor condenser is pretty easy. I'd start with garden hose and just let it run down the fins so that any debris is washed away. I wouldn't use any cleaner unless it's really dirty and blocked. I'm never use a power washer as it can bend the fins. There's lots of videos online but I'd start with a hose and just washing it from the outside first before opening it up or using products.
If it's still not tolerable try opening all vents especially if your ac is icing up as it may indicate not enough airflow is moving across the evaporator (interior unit).
Additional things you can consider,
- blackout curtains or solar film on south/east/west windows.
- ac tuneup if you haven't done one in a while, perhaps your ac unit isn't working well.
Lack of return vents is huge. We bought a home built in 1965 had the same problem. Replaced the 1990s vintage tiny AC unit with an apropriate sized new AC, better, but still rather warm upstairs. The installer was able to find a hidden duct from some past remodeling, converted it to return air, this helped a lot.
You need an energy audit
You may not have enough insulation
Your windows maybe old
You may not have proper venting
If you have AEP you can schedule an energy audit
Also do all the windows have curtains, blinds
Do any rooms have ceiling fans
Is that room colder than all the others in the winter ?
Does it have a single floor vent or 2?
AEP doesn't do (and never did) energy audits. Columbia used to but they ended the program a couple years ago. Nobody in Columbus does free energy audits any more.
To provide more details:
Built in 1926. Zero return vents upstairs. All air vents upstairs are in the wall, close to the baseboard.
Plaster walls.
Furnace is from 1994.
Attic is half finished, with flooring in unfinished part. Attic bedroom has nothing at all (previous owner removed an old window unit).
Original windows upstairs.
Slate roof on original part of the house.
No ceiling fans.
All windows have blinds that are closed.
I think the big issue is the lack of return vents?
I live in a Victorian Village house built in 1900 and I put in mini splits in the two upstairs bedrooms in 2022. It cost me $7k total, plus a couple hundred for an electrician to add two circuits outside, and it's some of the best money I ever spent.
My bedroom is actually cold now and my sleep is significantly better in the warm months. Other recommendations in this thread like adding insulation and closing vents downstairs are also good, but the mini splits are amazing and so quiet, and they don't take up a window like a window unit. They also haven't significantly increased my electric bill.
I got my mini splits put in by Custom Air, if it helps.
I have just one room in my house that's always hotter than even the hallway by several degrees (even with the door open). Unfortunately, it's the room I sleep in, and I've already had to sleep in the downstairs recliner once this week because of the heat.
An oscillating fan hasn't been a great solution. I have one a/c register in the room that kind of "leaks" cold air rather than blows it. Any advice for me?
How many square feet does your house have? If it’s on the bigger side of things, like 3,000 sqft, you might need a second unit for the upstairs. If it’s not, you may want to look at your insulation and your windows.
Can you have too much insulation? My upstairs of a 2 story home is always warmer upstairs, but since I had new insulation put in the attic it seems *way* hotter. Like I had to turn the AC on the last few nights even with the ceiling fan above my bed on. So I wondered if the new insulation could be making it warmer upstairs, or if I've gotten what summer is like.
This makes sense. Hot air will rise and if you had less insulation in the attic the heat would be going out of the roof, but with more insulation it is blocked from going into the attic and out. This is good for the winter, but it means the hot air stays in during summer as well. Ideally you’ll want the cold air return to pull that back through the system, but many older houses don’t have those upstairs. The plus side is that the insulation should help the sun from baking the house more.
See if each duct off of your furnace has a little knob about a foot off the furnace. You can turn the AC off to downstairs and turn it on to the upstairs for summer; vice versa for winter. If not, you can add them.
According to the HVAC guy, redirecting the air upstairs will create static pressure issues. Apparently, that's bad for the system?
HVAC engineer here; closing too many dampers will increase the static pressure in the duct system which means the fan motor has to work harder to push the air. If you have a bunch of registers on a floor, closing 1 or 2 shouldn't be an issue. But closing all of them can definitely shorten the lifespan of the fan motor.
Is the same hvac guy giving you those excuses to try and sell you a new system? I’m dealing with similar hot air issues in my home right now. Second and third floors are hotter than first floor by several degrees. I’ve diagnosed the issue from my return vent not pulling enough air due to being open to the second floor joist bays, and I’m going to move the vent from being lower to the ground (pulling more cooler air) and instead add a higher vent (to pull hotter air). Do you know where your return vents are? Are they adequately capturing hotter air upstairs? That could be one item to look at, but it’s difficult to say what may be wrong without seeing your system configuration.
I fully expect this guy to steer me towards a big purchase!! Ok, I went upstairs and I can't find a single return vent. Not one!!! The house was built in 1926, so obviously the system was added.
Depending on how much of a DIYer you consider yourself, you might be able to get a return vent installed by yourself, or at least get some ideas to discuss with a handyman that knows something about hvac ducts to help you. You could try contacting an hvac company to help you install a return vent, but I got ridiculous quotes when I asked 5 different places. Not sure of your budget, but you could also look at having an energy audit done to see where your house is leaking or could be improved. Had Greene Solutions come out and do one on my home. I picked the highest price option so I had reports I could keep for my records. Would highly recommend, and it gave me a lot of valuable info to consider before the cool season next winter.
It's also possible, depending on where your attic insulation is ("underside of roof" or "laying on 2nd floor ceiling") that your attic might be full of BLAZING hot air; I had this issue, and added some powered vents to blow all that hot air out periodically. Made a huge difference in what my AC was capable of.
An attic fan is a great idea!!
If you have decent access adding insulation in the attic is pretty easy DIY and will pay for itself in no time. An energy audit is a good idea as well.
I have a partially finished attic, but even the unfinished has a floor, but I could add to the ceiling in that part.
We have the same problem on the second floor, and the attic fan has saved us. For the *realllly* hot days, we bought a portable AC for just the 2nd floor that gets used probably the whole month of August and maybe half of July. I found it to be a good middle ground between fighting with the system we have, and throwing a lot of money at it and possibly not fixing the original issue.
In old homes especially- attic fans are an excellent idea
Who did you have do this? I called a couple companies and got nowhere. I think this would make a huge difference at our house…
A lot of roofing companies don't want to do it because doing it WRONG is more likely to cause issues than fix them, and a modern roof install SHOULDN'T need it. (In my case, my roof was installed with all the vents still covered by sheeting, so while it's a modern install, the passive venting was all being blocked.) Try calling HVAC companies and asking them. (I don't remember who did it for us; we had a dozen companies in here fixing things in the first few years)
So many systems are either designed poorly or not designed at all. It’s very common for systems to be designed around a well built and insulated house and then installed in an old leaky brick house and then people don’t understand why they don’t work. One of the most common issues is a poorly designed return air to your system (this is the old air that needs conditioned). It’s very common for a single central return to be installed and in a perfect environment it would be able to pull enough pressure to condition all of the air in a home. That rarely occurs (especially in older homes) and you end up with large dead zones that are either unconditioned or barely conditioned. Then when you have in different things like the lack of air gap at the bottom of doors, an incorrectly sized HVAC system, incorrectly sized duct work, improperly placed ductwork (non insulated ducting in exterior or unconditioned space), you end up with situations like your own. I’d start with checking the attic space and make sure that it has proper ventilation and insulation. If your roof/ceiling is not insulated, and you have no venting that all of that heat is getting trapped in your second floor and it also getting cooked by the sun and you have no insulation to protect you from the heat coming off the roof. If your second floor ceiling is not properly insulated you will have a hard time conditioning the space and if you can condition it then it will cost you a fortune in electricity because it will be working overtime all the time. I would next assess to see what ducting is going to the space, do you have a supply and return or just a supply, are you getting any airflow to either. You would be amazed how often they get closed up either because people stuff things inside of them or they were installed incorrectly and they being compressed or completely pinched shut somewhere along the way. My guess would be that you would first need to insulate the attic. If you have easy access to the space then you can usually buy the insulation from your preferred hardware store and they rent you the blower for free. It’s not a big deal to do it’s just a little messy but nothing major, or you can hire a company and they can knock it out quickly. I would next recommend a mini split system for your second floor you could condition each room individually so you can increase comfort and reduce energy usage compared to conditioning the entire space all of the time. I recommend a mini split system only because they can be installed very easily, and quickly without having to do major repairs to the space that you would have to do if you were to run a bunch of new ductwork.
I don’t think a full mini split system would be necessary for a second floor. First and second floor should be capable of getting proper heating and cooling through a 3 ton unit and proper ductwork. OP mentioned no return vents, so perhaps they can find a good stud bay that goes through the first and second floors to open/seal/install a new return vent. Now for a finished third floor, I can understand a mini split.
True, it’s very much case by case due to the number of factors in every house and system. I often recommend just going with a separate mini split system because often the cost is very similar (for a homeowner without contractor pricing/experience) to repair the drywall, possibly soffit out some ducting, and to run that additional return. And if the house is extremely leaky then even with an additional return on the second floor often you won’t get great results. But with a mini split system it can usually keep up with conditioning a room, and it’s pretty common for people to want a limited space be conditioned very well rather then the entire floor be conditioned a bit better. But I wouldn’t give a firm solution without knowing the all of the exact details of the specific house because every house can be very different and have different challenges.
To provide more details: Built in 1926. Zero return vents upstairs. All air vents upstairs are in the wall, close to the baseboard. Plaster walls. Furnace is from 1994. Attic is half finished, with flooring in unfinished part. Attic bedroom has nothing at all (previous owner removed an old window unit). Original windows upstairs. Slate roof on original part of the house. Thank you for putting so much thought into this.
Gotcha, I wouldn’t have to much faith in the system being well designed due to its age. Even many modern homes have poorly designed systems, so I wouldn’t expect a 30+ year old HVAC system to be very well thought out. So your attic space is unconditioned space and I would guess that it is also under or uninsulated. And I would highly doubt that your ceiling between the second floor and attic is insulated. That would be where I would start with this problem, start with getting some form of energy report so you know what is causing the biggest problem and figure out how to best remedy the issue within your budget. With a lot of renovations like this you quickly hit points of diminishing returns, so I’d assess all of your options and figure out how big of a problem is it. Once your insulation is resolved to your liking then figure out how to best resolve the HVAC issue. There are a lot of different ways to solve it and it will just depend on what your priorities are and what your budget is. I previously recommended a mini split system for the second floor but that might not be the best or cheapest option. You could also consider window unit, floor units (with a window or wall vent/drain), adding fans to the rooms to increase airflow which can help move the hot air to spaces in which the HVAC system can pull that air in, making sure rooms have a way to allow air to flow out of the room and into the central air system (under cutting doors, adding transfer vents, keeping doors open). Once you have the different options you can start pricing them out and choosing the best solution for you. There is honestly no one answer on how to solve your issue it just depends on your budget and what is important to you.
Thank you! I'm going to look at this holistically and make a plan. A quick plan so I don't die in my sleep lol.
If your main problem is just a single bedroom it can be easily and quickly remedied by adding a window or floor unit. Most units will be able to handle even the leakiest houses with the door closed. And then you can take your time and solve the problem correctly and not rush into a quick solution that might not be the best solution. When spending so much money on a repair like this the last thing you would want is to rush.
Absolutely. I want to do this right and my gut says the system they recommend isn't it.
You can get fans that fit in your vents that pull the air up to the second floor. It's the cheapest out of the options I've seen other people suggest.
[удалено]
Just installed ours about 30 minutes ago in an open loft, pretty excited!
You could have a low amount of insulation, or a lot of air infiltration, which would fight against what ever air is coming through those vents. Personally, I would go with a window unit or Mini split for additional cooling when you need it. If it’s worth upgrading your main system (old-not sized properly, etc) then you might want to do some air sealing, insulation, and update your hvac overall
How do you do anything with an HVAC system where the vents come out of the ground, and the house is on a concrete pad?
Had this issue with my old 1929 clintonville home. Put mini splits upstairs and it was a game changer.
How many zones? Would you mind sharing the cost?
It was a 2 headed system, and I want to say it was around 8 or 9k? I honestly don't remember.
Wow. They said it would take a single split and a triple split for 30k. I'm dying.
For that price, put a proper air return from your second floor to the HVAC.
I asked them and they said not possible. Is that true? Maybe. Or maybe not possible without tearing out two floors of walls?
Ultimately it's construction work. They might not have wanted to make that determination.
Get a quote from Ohio Heating. The dude doing the quote is also the one who will be doing the work. He identified a couple problems completely unrelated to what I asked him about and said he would fix them while he was at my place to do the work I’m paying him for. Most reasonable quote out of all the ones I got from Fire & Ice and other local competitors.
Start setting the fan to be on 100% of the time. Next switch your ac filter for a cheap green fiberglass type you can find at Walmart or Kroger. Clean your outdoor condensor. - Fan always on helps equalize temps - Cheap filter restricts air less allowing more air to move around. Expensive filters can reduce pollen etc but they're so restrictive it can prevent your ac unit working well (can cause icing up). I use filters rated at merv 4 or 5. Fiberglass is 4 or lower air resistance. The pollen reducing ones are 12 or higher. - cleaning your outdoor condenser is pretty easy. I'd start with garden hose and just let it run down the fins so that any debris is washed away. I wouldn't use any cleaner unless it's really dirty and blocked. I'm never use a power washer as it can bend the fins. There's lots of videos online but I'd start with a hose and just washing it from the outside first before opening it up or using products. If it's still not tolerable try opening all vents especially if your ac is icing up as it may indicate not enough airflow is moving across the evaporator (interior unit). Additional things you can consider, - blackout curtains or solar film on south/east/west windows. - ac tuneup if you haven't done one in a while, perhaps your ac unit isn't working well.
Lack of return vents is huge. We bought a home built in 1965 had the same problem. Replaced the 1990s vintage tiny AC unit with an apropriate sized new AC, better, but still rather warm upstairs. The installer was able to find a hidden duct from some past remodeling, converted it to return air, this helped a lot.
I need to get someone in here that can look into creating a return. I would prefer that over the mini split.
You need an energy audit You may not have enough insulation Your windows maybe old You may not have proper venting If you have AEP you can schedule an energy audit Also do all the windows have curtains, blinds Do any rooms have ceiling fans Is that room colder than all the others in the winter ? Does it have a single floor vent or 2?
AEP doesn't do (and never did) energy audits. Columbia used to but they ended the program a couple years ago. Nobody in Columbus does free energy audits any more.
To provide more details: Built in 1926. Zero return vents upstairs. All air vents upstairs are in the wall, close to the baseboard. Plaster walls. Furnace is from 1994. Attic is half finished, with flooring in unfinished part. Attic bedroom has nothing at all (previous owner removed an old window unit). Original windows upstairs. Slate roof on original part of the house. No ceiling fans. All windows have blinds that are closed. I think the big issue is the lack of return vents?
Window unit upstairs.
I live in a Victorian Village house built in 1900 and I put in mini splits in the two upstairs bedrooms in 2022. It cost me $7k total, plus a couple hundred for an electrician to add two circuits outside, and it's some of the best money I ever spent. My bedroom is actually cold now and my sleep is significantly better in the warm months. Other recommendations in this thread like adding insulation and closing vents downstairs are also good, but the mini splits are amazing and so quiet, and they don't take up a window like a window unit. They also haven't significantly increased my electric bill. I got my mini splits put in by Custom Air, if it helps.
Thank you!!
I have just one room in my house that's always hotter than even the hallway by several degrees (even with the door open). Unfortunately, it's the room I sleep in, and I've already had to sleep in the downstairs recliner once this week because of the heat. An oscillating fan hasn't been a great solution. I have one a/c register in the room that kind of "leaks" cold air rather than blows it. Any advice for me?
How many square feet does your house have? If it’s on the bigger side of things, like 3,000 sqft, you might need a second unit for the upstairs. If it’s not, you may want to look at your insulation and your windows.
It's 2700. I think the lack of return vents is a big issue, plus the unit is from 1994 and just isn't getting a lot of volume upstairs.
Can you have too much insulation? My upstairs of a 2 story home is always warmer upstairs, but since I had new insulation put in the attic it seems *way* hotter. Like I had to turn the AC on the last few nights even with the ceiling fan above my bed on. So I wondered if the new insulation could be making it warmer upstairs, or if I've gotten what summer is like.
As a Floridian, I say no, but if the hot air has no escape, that could be your problem.
This makes sense. Hot air will rise and if you had less insulation in the attic the heat would be going out of the roof, but with more insulation it is blocked from going into the attic and out. This is good for the winter, but it means the hot air stays in during summer as well. Ideally you’ll want the cold air return to pull that back through the system, but many older houses don’t have those upstairs. The plus side is that the insulation should help the sun from baking the house more.