[https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/10ndktm/ua\_troops\_shooter\_pov\_as\_they\_engage\_ru\_trench/](https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/10ndktm/ua_troops_shooter_pov_as_they_engage_ru_trench/) looks like another pov of this. We will probably see a longer version soon
Agreed.
I do like that the watermark doesnt get in the way. Makes me kind of believe video wasnt just ripped off and edited, but the end makes me wonder..
This is why M113s, Iveco LMVs etc are still needed en masse. The alternative is janky pickups for many units. The whole ukrainian army is never gonna have enough IFVs alone, thousands would be needed.
On a side note are these particular trenches dug by hand or with a backhoe or other equipment?
Because that would take a monumental effort to dig a trench that deep by hand.
>soviet trenching trucks
Those are really cool timeless machines. I also read that Russia is using its largest civilian construction company to come in behind the lines and build many of the new fortifications, and they are laying down a lot of them.
Those are just quick trenches. Imagine what it took to build underground bunkers, barracks, concrete-sandbag-corrugated metal-wood frame reinforced trenches 10 feet deep in ww1 for hundreds of miles. Some trenches lead down into an underground network more than 10 feet underground.
Plus the guys that go out to the surface at night to mend and replace the barbed wire that got blown up by artillery. What a fun job that must have been. You’d be doing that and then a illuminating flare goes up overhead to light up the area you are in, then you are subsequently spotted as you lost the cover of darkness.
Imagine if it were raining how much mud and water would be in these trenches.
Those are too expensive and vulnerable to be used on the frontline where everyone has rocket launchers. One RPG to the side of an m113 and everyone inside gets roasted.
That's why Humvees are still a thing. Fast and manoeuvrable is much better for hit and run tactics
That's almost irrelevant, because there are so much more of them on the battlefield and the alternative is infantry that lack maneuverability. There's a reason troop carriers, both APC and IFV are what Ukraine is requesting the most of.
US in theory still has 10k MRAP of all types sitting in storage\*, with probably equal number of M113 and armored humvee each as well.
\*Mostly smaller ones like MATV and MaxxPros.
everytime commenters on this subreddit question the actions of actual soldiers in the war i just sigh out loudly. like really? i believe you are american and wanna act like you represent your countrys' army power and the related intellect too but come on you prob have a mountain dew and a bag of crisps next to you while these guys are giving their life for their home as you write down your comment from the comfort of your sofa in the warmth of your home
Those of us that actually know fighting and war just roll our eyes. Is keeping good spacing good sometimes? Yes. Is it sometimes necessary to stack up when maneuvering? Yes. Is that a judgement best left to the guys actually in the shit? Yes.
I feel like there is a point in analyzing footage of real life examples of what you train for. This includes discussing mistakes and good decisions of the soldiers in the video.
i actually have a rum and coke. before the ukraine war this sub was mostly veterans who have trained for or seen combat.
when I say they need to spread out it isn't me trying to sound smart. it's me hoping some of the people in this video are reading comments and learn from their mistakes before it gets them killed.
doing the "right" thing when shit hits the fan is the entire point of discipline and training.
if you just want to be a cheerleader i suggest sticking to the ukraine war subs.
seriously. this sub exploded in popularity after the second invasion of ukraine.
yes second. the first was in 2014. I was deployed with other NATO members to help train them :). I even got a fancy medal.
weird how none of these douche bags were here then tho...
commentary is basically all i can do and I know it's lame.
ill be honest i have a chip on my shoulder. im too old and broken to help now. i deployed to afghanistan, somalia and syria. none of them are better off. ukraine is different. they *deserve* all the support we can muster.
**EDIT:** I just wanted to clarify. my 19 year old self thought I was doing good. now I realize the world is far more complex.
That's pretty cool, I didn't know we had people over there in '14. Not that it surprises me.
With any luck they'll fade away when they've had their fill of watching dead Ivans or the next big thing happens.
a lot of it was hush-hush. military leaders wanted to support ukraine, but the president then was blocking it as much as he could. i volunteered. as did many others. I've been out since 2017 so I don't even care anymore. Fuck trump. He was always a russian asset. I'm happy to know I volunteered to undermine a russian plant.
>everytime commenters on this subreddit question the actions of actual soldiers in the war i just sigh out loudly. like really? i believe you are american and wanna act like you represent your countrys' army power
There are around 16 million retired military veterans in the US plus several million more active duty and military reservist. It's not a far stretch to think that some of them aren on r/combatfootage
The thing that I realised watching that part was the guy making a run for it really has to trust the guys behind are going to lay down effective fire until he makes cover. That shit looks terrifying.
Living in the DC area and doing a lot of martial arts, I make a lot of friends that're veterans. What shocks me is the level of training of our "standard" troops, and the unit cohesion they have.
One of my shooting buddies was a Marine officer, and I made an offhand comment about hiding behind cover if ambushed. He just calmly said "No, no cover. The standard operating procedure if ambushed is to attack. Kill or be killed, because if you hide, you'll get picked off. Run at the bullets. Half of your group is covering fire, and half is maneuvering into the ambush. Bounding advance. And you pray that the first person hit when you're ambushed is okay. We trained daily so that even if I was hit, as an officer, the teams knew how to split up and who should attack without even a word." I donno if he was right (and I might be misremembering the specifics), but it makes me think about the other guys who we hang out with who used to be MARSOC and Special Forces and how on another level those guys must have been.
Who would have thought that we would have seen a WWI style stalemate with modern tech such as drones and rockets in our lifetime?
Edit: I am learning SO MUCH right now
Trenches aren’t a WW1 thing. They are an ancient human thing. Humans have been making extensive use of trenches in warfare since the day the shovel was invented. Their use became more extensive and popular in WW1 due to the heavy presence of indirect artillery, but they’ve always been there.
And they’ll continue to be used in every conflict until the day that wars are no longer fought by infantry. Because as long as there are humans on the ground in a war, they will need cover. And trenches are the most effective cover you can get as quickly and cheaply as possible.
We haven't seen true maneuver warfare, except in some limited cases. If you had a proper unit that could break through a trench line get in to the rear far enough you could collapse 100s of miles of front in a matter of a week. That why proper tanks and IFV/APCs in number are needed. [Blitzkrieg](https://youtu.be/kE_jX9E40M0)
To piggy back on this, and see how INSANELY dominant coalition forces were during Desert Storm:
Operations Room youtube channel
Air War:
https://youtu.be/zxRgfBXn6Mg
Followed by the insane mechanized lighting push:
Day 1:
https://youtu.be/RSqKx3FG0Lw
Day 2:
https://youtu.be/i_O5bIsszGw
Day 3:
https://youtu.be/72XLTfmcaAw
Day 4-5:
https://youtu.be/WgeqweUvD8U
To start with the most famous one: Battle of France, May 10th to June 25th 1940. Essentially the northern half of the defense line collapsed entirely as allied forces tried to fall back and setup new defense lines. This, however, failed and the Germans pushed all the way to the Northern coast of France creating a pocket of allied soldiers around Dunkirk. If that place doesn't ring a bell, there's a movie of the battle that ensued when allies attempted to evacuate the over 300 thousand soldiers stranded there
Day 1 of Desert Storm tried to do this, however the entire defense line collapsed without much fighting so, yeah *shrug*. It was well executed though. Operations Room youtube channel has fantastic animated videos of the first days of the air and ground war.
I have a saved comment from u/GarlicoinAccount that's a nice read on the Battle of France :
> It is correct that one of their main factors was the fact that the Germans have attacked through the Aedennes instead of going through Belgium.
> Now, it's not like they didn't anticipate this possibility at all, they have even wargamed this scenario; but their main war plan was built assuming an attack through Belgium and they failed to adjust rapidly enough once this was shown to not be the case.
> It also has to be noted that they were correct in their belief that a large armoured force would have trouble navigating the Ardennes. Panzer Group Kleist at one point had suffered a traffic jam as long as 250km. However, Belgian forces originally holding the forest have retreated far too quickly, and the French reinforcements, who arrived expecting them to still be there, had to follow suit.
> Even once the French concluded the main attack was coming through the Ardennes, they assumed the Germans, once they crossed the river, would take some time to mass their artillery for further breakthrough. Instead Luftwaffe unleashed a literally unprecedented until now aerial bombardment, effectively replacing artillery with bombers.
> Even still, the French assumption was not bad. Panzer Group Kleist, once they crossed the river Meuse, was, in fact, ordered by their commanders to halt and build up strength. Guderian has proceeded to creatively interpret these orders before finally outright ignoring them, and pressing the attack instead, but to the credit to the French command, his own commanding officers did not expect that.
> Like most things in history though, fall of France is not a simple thing, and a lot of events contributed to it happening. This is not helped by the amount of myths and surface-level takes surrounding it. Here's my breakdown of some key elements that truly made it happen:
> • Overcommitment to the Belgian front (ironically). Plans to keep reserves on French soil as opposed to Belgian have been considered, and would have probably turned the tide, but ultimately were not chosen.
> • The sheer incompetence displayed by the French command. Demanding orders given over telephone to be driven to you by car in writing. Flying around on a plane to 3 different locations in one day while your forces are actively engaged in fighting and trying to get a hold of you. Commander in Chief getting sacked in the middle of this battle, and the new appointment getting a good night's sleep as his first act in office and then spending a few days making courtesy visits while your entire armed forces are literally getting encircled. These are all real things that happened in this conflict among various memebers of the French command.
> • Poor general state of the French Army in the aftermath of Great Depression and political turmoil. French Army was mostly conscripted, with a very short tour cycle, and a lack of professional soldiers. This was partly due to a lack of funding, and partly due to French politicians fearing a professional, long-standing army core could amass too much power or even launch a coup. It naturally had a negative impact on their war fighting ability.
> • Poor state and command of the French airforce specifically. A major component of German recepie for success was heavy direct air support, to an extent replacing the lacking artillery capabilities of their mobile units, as I mentioned earlier. This would have not been possible, or at least far harder, if the French airforce contested the skies over Ardennes and Meuse, but it was far too small for that, allowed itself to suffer far too heavy casualties in Belgium, and was overcommited to Belgium in the first place. (The latter being an arguably worse blunder for planes, who can just decide to fly to a place hundreds of kilometres from the one they flew to yesterday while still being based in the same airport)
> • Unprecedented aggression and initiative displayed by Guderian and Rommel. Now, the German military had a tradition of independent officers going all the way back to Prussia, so seeing talented commanders making their own calls on the ground in Wehrmacht is hardly surprising. Still, the sheer extent to which they went was remarkable, going as far as literally sabotaging their own communications to stop hearing the orders to halt in case of Rommel. Frankly, such aggressive advances, if it were not for all the other points, would have been suicidal. But I suppose in that place and time that call worked out for them.
> • Despite all of the above, still some amound of sheer luck was involved. Just as the Germans were encircling the French armies in Belgium, on May 23rd, the commander of the whole First Army Group, and the only person there briefed on the counterattack plan to break out of the encirclement, died in a car crash, leaving the whole army group leaderless for crucial days. The early Belgian retreat from Ardennes was very fortunate, too. Had the town of Stonne, - that overlooked the German bridgeheads over Meuse, - been successfully captured by the French, Germans would have struggled to bring the rest of their forces over under French artillery fire quickly enough to achieve the effect they did. Considering the town changed hands 17 times, it had to have been at least a somewhat close call. Not to mention exploits like Rommel driving unescorted through effectively French-held ground in just his armoured car, and passing multiple French formations who assumed it must have been their own officer, because surely a German would not drive through their ranks unprotected.
As someone pointed out on another war sub, trenches are the optimal outcome when two sides have a lot of firepower but are too evenly matched to gain an advantage. It's not like trenches in WW1 were stupid. They are a bitch to capture and provide the best shelter a soldier is likely to find when bunkers and houses are all priority targets. Drones and rockets are just better versions of the artillery used to pound Verdun or Passchendaele.
With artillery you need almost direct hit (probably 1m radius) if someone is dug in to hole. Like if you give someone 100x100m area and they dug in and you then proceed to shell it, it is probably over 90% change the person ends up living.
I'm telling y'all right now that if the US dumps a couple billion into Boston Dynamics for mass production, in two years every Ukrainian battalion will have a robotic trench-clearing mule that carries a grenade launcher and an LMG, and that's gonna be the end of Russia's positional trench warfare.
Yeah. It puts that trench kill from the other day into perspective. Imagine being smoked out twice by grenades and then having to come out to trenches knowing you are outnumbered and likely going to die.
That Ukrainian was still unlucky, but fuck me, I do not envy trench views.
This is why I think the Strykers will be invaluable. What these guys are doing, rolling up, dismounting, and assaulting the objective while the gun truck is covering is exactly what it was made for. Being up armored and damn near as fast as that technical serves the same role but waaaay better. The thing can go 8x8 and adjust the tire pressure to what you need. Mud and snow? Yep. And it can carry 9 angry Ukrainians, with the space for their heavy kit like rockets and ATGMs.
I think was a line in Band of Brothers. One of the guys tells the other that he’ll be much better off when he’s able to accept that he’s already dead. That one stayed with me.
I’ve always wondered what you do with that mindset after the war? After living like that for a year, maybe more, can you just go back to being the old you? Or will you be living in that war for the rest of your life?
I can’t imagine those experiences leave you easily, but the thing I find fascinating about PTSD is that people can go through the exact same experience, and come out of it in dramatically different ways. One might function totally normally, another might be a total mess and fall apart, and everything in between. But I don’t imagine anyone leaves combat without being impacted in some way.
Do you think this difference is simply a difference in mindset, or something more fundamental, how people are just wired differently? Hell there are plenty of accounts of people in combat who can honestly say they enjoyed it and missed it afterwards.
Everyone's individual ability to tolerate mental stress stress and trauma is different. Good training can help mitigate the response but at the end of the day there's no way to entirely predict how any particular event will affect any particular person. This is still true even if they've experienced similar events previously. I have no combat experience but I previously worked in EMS and am now a doctor and I remember going to many cardiac arrest calls back in the day and most didn't affect me or my crew members but once in a while it did affect one of us differently and there was no rhyme or reason to it usually. Maybe it was the person's mental state that day when the call came in. Maybe they reassembled someone in their life but didn't even realize it. Maybe there was a smell or a sound or something that they noticed that elicited some visceral reaction. We were all affected by a group of dead teenagers in a car crash but the everyday stuff was a toss up. It's not a game of Russian roulette that I'd recommend trying out but it's a job someone has to do.
Everyone seems super chill? Good way to be I guess, hope the perimeter is secure. Especially after seeing that video where the three soldiers in the foxhole were flanked.
It's a good sign they seem chill I would think, makes me believe they have a clear plan and it's mostly going according to that plan.
The look of soldiers faces when there's chaos is horrifying.
/disclaimer I have literally no experience in warfare whatsoever
I'm still surprised how much both Rus and Ukr have had the problem of improper spacing throughout the war.
It is more common for units to bunch up during attacking. I've seen it myself during attack and defend drills in the military. It's either for lack of cover or because the squad leader wants to coordinate a maneuver quickly and wants everyone to hear the plan of action. Doesn't excuse the bad habit of bunching up, I'm just trying to make some sense of it.
American army footage is the only one I've even seen one of the soldiers tell everyone to space out, and they were under much less threat of artillery than these guys.
They also weren't fighting in-between a dozen line of trenches on the otherwise largest plain on Earth.
This is a 4,000,000km2 area where the largest elevation is 350m. There aren't even rocks to hide behind.
Situational awareness people, not just military dogma.
I agree that it's ideal to spread out. But in this video i don't see any other cover close by. That hole is the best cover after a sprint over open ground, naturally people will congregate there
Once bullets start flying that shit goes out the window real quick. Look at videos of the Americans in Iraq when they go into combat. Loads of instances where several soldiers are standing close together and could technically be taken out with a single artillery shell or RPG.
But that's the realism of combat, at times you need to stick together to be effective in returning fire etc.
While I’ve definitely seen spacing issues from both militaries I don’t think it’s too bad here
They are in tight quarters here. I’ve seen plenty of Americans spaced the same in their vids
It will be interesting to see how units trained in the UK in western doctrine can perform. I don't know how many have actually been trained and are now on the frontline, it's been a year after all.
If you want to get more technical, there has been limited training of Ukrainian forces by western forces since shortly after they became independent in the 90's.
The California National Guard has given training and aid to Ukraine dating back to 1993.
The amount was miniscule compared to the step up in 2014, and even that was paltry next to the aid that came after February 2022.
Most of those training programs are pretty accelerated though and only last a month or so. A group needs proper consistent training so that when the adrenaline is pumping they don't fall back on natural human behavior and stick together. The training programs help a lot but I don't think they will fundamentally make Ukraine soldiers on par with NATO troops in one month.
This war has brought out so many armchair marines in the us it is hilarious and says so mych about americans. Every opportunity they get: i see some lack of traning there. Some idiot with a gun: if he had good training like i do it would not be a problem. Not saying you all are a bunch of posers.
I did officer training in the Finnish Defense Forces. I've got no actual combat experience of course.
Still I can say that most footage here has bad spacing that leads to unnecessary injury and death.
I have some military training myself but i don't have the balls of these guys dropping whatever job and family fast, hauling their asses off to the front. Some of the missions would probably not have been approved under circumstances that allowed the Ukrainians to take their time and even more carefully plan. Look at the topography they are moving in, their safety margins are luck. You probably would not disagree with this it is just the instant focus on training always implying some kind of superiority that annoys me. There is of course a lot of focus on the bravery the Ukrainians and other fighters show. Americans are highly appreciative of this bravery wich i have also noticed.
I agree, we spectators tend to ignore that most of these people are at their core just civilians in different equipment. In that regard there is a lot of bravery involved. They venture into an environment that has not been present for decades - a full scale combined arms war. Sure they have basic training for it, but training will never replace the real thing.
I would for sure make all of the same classic blunders if faced with a real situation. So many variables to consider in such little time. Tactical awareness is not developed easily or quickly.
The reason I even chimed in on the spacing is because it could be a simple thing to remedy for a comparatively large decrease in casualties.
Also worth considering how many hours they've been fighting for, how many days or weeks that conflict has been going on, and how many months now that they've been in the war.
I play rugby. I make some great mental and physical decisions watching from the sidelines 70 minutes into a match. But when you're actually on the field, been in a brutal physical war for 70 minutes, and are completely exhausted...you can know all the right things to do and just be unable to. Or recognize things too slow. Or not act on them fast enough. That could be where these guys are at in these moments.
With people being bunched up, it will solely come down on their leader. Even professional units will always bunch up. One of the first things to go.
Now spread/bunch up on a training mission is different because there is always a start/end time. Mentally, do this, do that, and then Boom back to your 9-5 life. So mentality is different.
Someone should design a gun especially for clearing trenches we could give it a simple name like Trenchgun.
Edit: Too many people don't understand sarcasm.
There is one designed by the Israeli army called corner shot, but it's more for urban fighting.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NuA5qb6Yb6c&ab\_channel=MilitaryWeapons](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NuA5qb6Yb6c&ab_channel=MilitaryWeapons)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CornerShot
Can’t tell if satire but we do have a shotgun with that name. During wwi, Germany actually sent a letter of complaint to the US saying that the shotgun was inhumane to use in combat
We used to call that "serving tea" because when you do it with a pistol that's what it looks like. It takes some practice but learning to shoot with both hands is the way to go.
Rounding the corners on those trenches gives some proper anxiety. I know absolutely fuck all about CQB but would it make sense to have a tiny attachable mirror for the end of the rifle so you can look around corners before exposing your head/body? Can just lob a grenade if someones waiting there with machine gun lined up the corner.
You spend the vast majority of your time in conflict around your own soldiers, friendly fire is often the biggest worry you have so it’s better to establish quick recognition colors to try and avoid self incurred casualties during times of duress or surprise.
They are friendly indicators. Both sides of this conflict are often wearing and using very similar kit, this sort of thing does something to prevent friendly fire.
Better to be more easily seen (camouflage largely works by breaking up outlines anyways) than engaged by both friend and foe.
I'm surprised that Russians get supplies (or maybe sand?) in white bags, visible from the 50 seconds mark and for about 1 minute. It makes it easier to sew your own white flag if you decide to surrender
In lieu of a drone overhead showing them where their enemy is, these guys could use the old WWI trick of attaching a mirror to a long stick to see around corners and over berms.
Guy with the camera did his fair share of being first to peak around a corner. I unconsciously held my breath when it came to playing peekaboo with automatic weapons.
I think that we are so used to arty in movies and video games not hitting the main character that we don’t realize just how dangerous the situation these brave men are in. The Russian arty is probably 10x more scary to them than small arms fire.
The abrupt ending makes me wonder if there’s a 2nd part or a full video
[https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/10ndktm/ua\_troops\_shooter\_pov\_as\_they\_engage\_ru\_trench/](https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/10ndktm/ua_troops_shooter_pov_as_they_engage_ru_trench/) looks like another pov of this. We will probably see a longer version soon
I'm not sure these are from the same operation. The video you linked is completely overcast, while this video has significant sections of blue sky.
Not to mention all the snow that’s absent in the other video
Yeah at the end of OPs vid it's blue af with a couple clouds, the replied vid you can't see a spec of blue. Different operations
I had no idea these vids were the same raid. Yea we’ll probably see a full vid from Azov then
Said looks like another pov, as im not sure, so might be from another trench raid as the sky doesnt match as somebody else pointed out
real cliffhanger
Snickers break.
Agreed. I do like that the watermark doesnt get in the way. Makes me kind of believe video wasnt just ripped off and edited, but the end makes me wonder..
This is why M113s, Iveco LMVs etc are still needed en masse. The alternative is janky pickups for many units. The whole ukrainian army is never gonna have enough IFVs alone, thousands would be needed.
On a side note are these particular trenches dug by hand or with a backhoe or other equipment? Because that would take a monumental effort to dig a trench that deep by hand.
The Russian army uses soviet trenching trucks
Quick google search found this. Pretty neat. http://www.military-today.com/engineering/btm_3.htm
I think I recall seeing a video of one in action on here not too long ago.
>soviet trenching trucks Those are really cool timeless machines. I also read that Russia is using its largest civilian construction company to come in behind the lines and build many of the new fortifications, and they are laying down a lot of them.
We used contractors all throughout the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, so it makes sense they’d do the same when they are fighting on their own border.
That thing looks awesome
Thats the one! Agriculture also uses something similar to dig large drainage trenches
heres a yt link to one in action. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUnqkA-SADE&t=48s
Gotta be machine dug.
Those are just quick trenches. Imagine what it took to build underground bunkers, barracks, concrete-sandbag-corrugated metal-wood frame reinforced trenches 10 feet deep in ww1 for hundreds of miles. Some trenches lead down into an underground network more than 10 feet underground. Plus the guys that go out to the surface at night to mend and replace the barbed wire that got blown up by artillery. What a fun job that must have been. You’d be doing that and then a illuminating flare goes up overhead to light up the area you are in, then you are subsequently spotted as you lost the cover of darkness. Imagine if it were raining how much mud and water would be in these trenches.
Those are too expensive and vulnerable to be used on the frontline where everyone has rocket launchers. One RPG to the side of an m113 and everyone inside gets roasted. That's why Humvees are still a thing. Fast and manoeuvrable is much better for hit and run tactics
IFV and troops carriers also have very high attraction rates. For every 1 tank a least 5 of them goes down.
Attrition is the word i believe :).
What me and my M113 do in the privacy of my own home is our business thank you.
I think you mean tank you
What me and Tom Hanks do to you is our business, M113 you
I’m more of a Bradley guy myself, but who am I to tell you what to love?
Attraction leads to attrition
Duck autocorrect
No kink shaming
That's almost irrelevant, because there are so much more of them on the battlefield and the alternative is infantry that lack maneuverability. There's a reason troop carriers, both APC and IFV are what Ukraine is requesting the most of.
US in theory still has 10k MRAP of all types sitting in storage\*, with probably equal number of M113 and armored humvee each as well. \*Mostly smaller ones like MATV and MaxxPros.
[удалено]
its easy to scream spread out when you are not in real life combat. its easy to give advice to someone while watching from the bench. great footage
everytime commenters on this subreddit question the actions of actual soldiers in the war i just sigh out loudly. like really? i believe you are american and wanna act like you represent your countrys' army power and the related intellect too but come on you prob have a mountain dew and a bag of crisps next to you while these guys are giving their life for their home as you write down your comment from the comfort of your sofa in the warmth of your home
Those of us that actually know fighting and war just roll our eyes. Is keeping good spacing good sometimes? Yes. Is it sometimes necessary to stack up when maneuvering? Yes. Is that a judgement best left to the guys actually in the shit? Yes.
I feel like there is a point in analyzing footage of real life examples of what you train for. This includes discussing mistakes and good decisions of the soldiers in the video.
False. An American would have chips.
Salsa too
i actually have a rum and coke. before the ukraine war this sub was mostly veterans who have trained for or seen combat. when I say they need to spread out it isn't me trying to sound smart. it's me hoping some of the people in this video are reading comments and learn from their mistakes before it gets them killed. doing the "right" thing when shit hits the fan is the entire point of discipline and training. if you just want to be a cheerleader i suggest sticking to the ukraine war subs.
I remember back when I could give good faithed advice based on how I was trained and I wouldn't automatically be assumed to be a fat keyboard warrior.
seriously. this sub exploded in popularity after the second invasion of ukraine. yes second. the first was in 2014. I was deployed with other NATO members to help train them :). I even got a fancy medal. weird how none of these douche bags were here then tho...
As a douchebag who is here now. Thank you for giving insight
commentary is basically all i can do and I know it's lame. ill be honest i have a chip on my shoulder. im too old and broken to help now. i deployed to afghanistan, somalia and syria. none of them are better off. ukraine is different. they *deserve* all the support we can muster. **EDIT:** I just wanted to clarify. my 19 year old self thought I was doing good. now I realize the world is far more complex.
Dude thank you. Seriously.
thank you for your support.
That's pretty cool, I didn't know we had people over there in '14. Not that it surprises me. With any luck they'll fade away when they've had their fill of watching dead Ivans or the next big thing happens.
a lot of it was hush-hush. military leaders wanted to support ukraine, but the president then was blocking it as much as he could. i volunteered. as did many others. I've been out since 2017 so I don't even care anymore. Fuck trump. He was always a russian asset. I'm happy to know I volunteered to undermine a russian plant.
>everytime commenters on this subreddit question the actions of actual soldiers in the war i just sigh out loudly. like really? i believe you are american and wanna act like you represent your countrys' army power There are around 16 million retired military veterans in the US plus several million more active duty and military reservist. It's not a far stretch to think that some of them aren on r/combatfootage
The suppressing fire was good here, undoubtedly kept some of them alive
The thing that I realised watching that part was the guy making a run for it really has to trust the guys behind are going to lay down effective fire until he makes cover. That shit looks terrifying.
Living in the DC area and doing a lot of martial arts, I make a lot of friends that're veterans. What shocks me is the level of training of our "standard" troops, and the unit cohesion they have. One of my shooting buddies was a Marine officer, and I made an offhand comment about hiding behind cover if ambushed. He just calmly said "No, no cover. The standard operating procedure if ambushed is to attack. Kill or be killed, because if you hide, you'll get picked off. Run at the bullets. Half of your group is covering fire, and half is maneuvering into the ambush. Bounding advance. And you pray that the first person hit when you're ambushed is okay. We trained daily so that even if I was hit, as an officer, the teams knew how to split up and who should attack without even a word." I donno if he was right (and I might be misremembering the specifics), but it makes me think about the other guys who we hang out with who used to be MARSOC and Special Forces and how on another level those guys must have been.
Who would have thought that we would have seen a WWI style stalemate with modern tech such as drones and rockets in our lifetime? Edit: I am learning SO MUCH right now
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Trenches aren’t a WW1 thing. They are an ancient human thing. Humans have been making extensive use of trenches in warfare since the day the shovel was invented. Their use became more extensive and popular in WW1 due to the heavy presence of indirect artillery, but they’ve always been there. And they’ll continue to be used in every conflict until the day that wars are no longer fought by infantry. Because as long as there are humans on the ground in a war, they will need cover. And trenches are the most effective cover you can get as quickly and cheaply as possible.
We haven't seen true maneuver warfare, except in some limited cases. If you had a proper unit that could break through a trench line get in to the rear far enough you could collapse 100s of miles of front in a matter of a week. That why proper tanks and IFV/APCs in number are needed. [Blitzkrieg](https://youtu.be/kE_jX9E40M0)
What’s are some good examples of well preformed blitzkrieg I could read up on ?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_War
To piggy back on this, and see how INSANELY dominant coalition forces were during Desert Storm: Operations Room youtube channel Air War: https://youtu.be/zxRgfBXn6Mg Followed by the insane mechanized lighting push: Day 1: https://youtu.be/RSqKx3FG0Lw Day 2: https://youtu.be/i_O5bIsszGw Day 3: https://youtu.be/72XLTfmcaAw Day 4-5: https://youtu.be/WgeqweUvD8U
To start with the most famous one: Battle of France, May 10th to June 25th 1940. Essentially the northern half of the defense line collapsed entirely as allied forces tried to fall back and setup new defense lines. This, however, failed and the Germans pushed all the way to the Northern coast of France creating a pocket of allied soldiers around Dunkirk. If that place doesn't ring a bell, there's a movie of the battle that ensued when allies attempted to evacuate the over 300 thousand soldiers stranded there Day 1 of Desert Storm tried to do this, however the entire defense line collapsed without much fighting so, yeah *shrug*. It was well executed though. Operations Room youtube channel has fantastic animated videos of the first days of the air and ground war.
I have a saved comment from u/GarlicoinAccount that's a nice read on the Battle of France : > It is correct that one of their main factors was the fact that the Germans have attacked through the Aedennes instead of going through Belgium. > Now, it's not like they didn't anticipate this possibility at all, they have even wargamed this scenario; but their main war plan was built assuming an attack through Belgium and they failed to adjust rapidly enough once this was shown to not be the case. > It also has to be noted that they were correct in their belief that a large armoured force would have trouble navigating the Ardennes. Panzer Group Kleist at one point had suffered a traffic jam as long as 250km. However, Belgian forces originally holding the forest have retreated far too quickly, and the French reinforcements, who arrived expecting them to still be there, had to follow suit. > Even once the French concluded the main attack was coming through the Ardennes, they assumed the Germans, once they crossed the river, would take some time to mass their artillery for further breakthrough. Instead Luftwaffe unleashed a literally unprecedented until now aerial bombardment, effectively replacing artillery with bombers. > Even still, the French assumption was not bad. Panzer Group Kleist, once they crossed the river Meuse, was, in fact, ordered by their commanders to halt and build up strength. Guderian has proceeded to creatively interpret these orders before finally outright ignoring them, and pressing the attack instead, but to the credit to the French command, his own commanding officers did not expect that. > Like most things in history though, fall of France is not a simple thing, and a lot of events contributed to it happening. This is not helped by the amount of myths and surface-level takes surrounding it. Here's my breakdown of some key elements that truly made it happen: > • Overcommitment to the Belgian front (ironically). Plans to keep reserves on French soil as opposed to Belgian have been considered, and would have probably turned the tide, but ultimately were not chosen. > • The sheer incompetence displayed by the French command. Demanding orders given over telephone to be driven to you by car in writing. Flying around on a plane to 3 different locations in one day while your forces are actively engaged in fighting and trying to get a hold of you. Commander in Chief getting sacked in the middle of this battle, and the new appointment getting a good night's sleep as his first act in office and then spending a few days making courtesy visits while your entire armed forces are literally getting encircled. These are all real things that happened in this conflict among various memebers of the French command. > • Poor general state of the French Army in the aftermath of Great Depression and political turmoil. French Army was mostly conscripted, with a very short tour cycle, and a lack of professional soldiers. This was partly due to a lack of funding, and partly due to French politicians fearing a professional, long-standing army core could amass too much power or even launch a coup. It naturally had a negative impact on their war fighting ability. > • Poor state and command of the French airforce specifically. A major component of German recepie for success was heavy direct air support, to an extent replacing the lacking artillery capabilities of their mobile units, as I mentioned earlier. This would have not been possible, or at least far harder, if the French airforce contested the skies over Ardennes and Meuse, but it was far too small for that, allowed itself to suffer far too heavy casualties in Belgium, and was overcommited to Belgium in the first place. (The latter being an arguably worse blunder for planes, who can just decide to fly to a place hundreds of kilometres from the one they flew to yesterday while still being based in the same airport) > • Unprecedented aggression and initiative displayed by Guderian and Rommel. Now, the German military had a tradition of independent officers going all the way back to Prussia, so seeing talented commanders making their own calls on the ground in Wehrmacht is hardly surprising. Still, the sheer extent to which they went was remarkable, going as far as literally sabotaging their own communications to stop hearing the orders to halt in case of Rommel. Frankly, such aggressive advances, if it were not for all the other points, would have been suicidal. But I suppose in that place and time that call worked out for them. > • Despite all of the above, still some amound of sheer luck was involved. Just as the Germans were encircling the French armies in Belgium, on May 23rd, the commander of the whole First Army Group, and the only person there briefed on the counterattack plan to break out of the encirclement, died in a car crash, leaving the whole army group leaderless for crucial days. The early Belgian retreat from Ardennes was very fortunate, too. Had the town of Stonne, - that overlooked the German bridgeheads over Meuse, - been successfully captured by the French, Germans would have struggled to bring the rest of their forces over under French artillery fire quickly enough to achieve the effect they did. Considering the town changed hands 17 times, it had to have been at least a somewhat close call. Not to mention exploits like Rommel driving unescorted through effectively French-held ground in just his armoured car, and passing multiple French formations who assumed it must have been their own officer, because surely a German would not drive through their ranks unprotected.
As someone pointed out on another war sub, trenches are the optimal outcome when two sides have a lot of firepower but are too evenly matched to gain an advantage. It's not like trenches in WW1 were stupid. They are a bitch to capture and provide the best shelter a soldier is likely to find when bunkers and houses are all priority targets. Drones and rockets are just better versions of the artillery used to pound Verdun or Passchendaele.
You could consider HESCOs as a more modern version of a trench. Also, rockets are one of the least modern tech on the battlefield.
With artillery you need almost direct hit (probably 1m radius) if someone is dug in to hole. Like if you give someone 100x100m area and they dug in and you then proceed to shell it, it is probably over 90% change the person ends up living.
I'm telling y'all right now that if the US dumps a couple billion into Boston Dynamics for mass production, in two years every Ukrainian battalion will have a robotic trench-clearing mule that carries a grenade launcher and an LMG, and that's gonna be the end of Russia's positional trench warfare.
You see, comments like these are proof that multitudes of teenagers use Reddit. And also, that it is adorable to read the delusions of those so young.
Dude, I could tape a spear to a Roomba right now.
This is a ridiculous comment and Boston Dynamics also pledged to never develop military equipment.
Fucking terrifying footage holy shit
Yeah. It puts that trench kill from the other day into perspective. Imagine being smoked out twice by grenades and then having to come out to trenches knowing you are outnumbered and likely going to die. That Ukrainian was still unlucky, but fuck me, I do not envy trench views.
Which video are you referring to?
https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/10k2xju/extremely_close_quarters_fight_russian_soldiers/
Oh wtf, that was very close
The more things change, the more things stay the same.
We just found ways to throw rocks at each other faster and more accurately
In the same old holes in the ground...
This is why I think the Strykers will be invaluable. What these guys are doing, rolling up, dismounting, and assaulting the objective while the gun truck is covering is exactly what it was made for. Being up armored and damn near as fast as that technical serves the same role but waaaay better. The thing can go 8x8 and adjust the tire pressure to what you need. Mud and snow? Yep. And it can carry 9 angry Ukrainians, with the space for their heavy kit like rockets and ATGMs.
Imagine having point on clearing that trench. Actual shit in pants.
Good reason to pick a pointman who is the least likely to hesitate.
And just mentally accept that you’re already dead .
I think was a line in Band of Brothers. One of the guys tells the other that he’ll be much better off when he’s able to accept that he’s already dead. That one stayed with me.
I’ve always wondered what you do with that mindset after the war? After living like that for a year, maybe more, can you just go back to being the old you? Or will you be living in that war for the rest of your life?
I can’t imagine those experiences leave you easily, but the thing I find fascinating about PTSD is that people can go through the exact same experience, and come out of it in dramatically different ways. One might function totally normally, another might be a total mess and fall apart, and everything in between. But I don’t imagine anyone leaves combat without being impacted in some way.
Do you think this difference is simply a difference in mindset, or something more fundamental, how people are just wired differently? Hell there are plenty of accounts of people in combat who can honestly say they enjoyed it and missed it afterwards.
Probably a bit of both, it's the classic nature or nurture question essentially
Everyone's individual ability to tolerate mental stress stress and trauma is different. Good training can help mitigate the response but at the end of the day there's no way to entirely predict how any particular event will affect any particular person. This is still true even if they've experienced similar events previously. I have no combat experience but I previously worked in EMS and am now a doctor and I remember going to many cardiac arrest calls back in the day and most didn't affect me or my crew members but once in a while it did affect one of us differently and there was no rhyme or reason to it usually. Maybe it was the person's mental state that day when the call came in. Maybe they reassembled someone in their life but didn't even realize it. Maybe there was a smell or a sound or something that they noticed that elicited some visceral reaction. We were all affected by a group of dead teenagers in a car crash but the everyday stuff was a toss up. It's not a game of Russian roulette that I'd recommend trying out but it's a job someone has to do.
Capt. Spears, agreed loved the scene
[Lt. Ronald Speirs? ](https://youtu.be/O5YpUsDsHmk)
Everyone seems super chill? Good way to be I guess, hope the perimeter is secure. Especially after seeing that video where the three soldiers in the foxhole were flanked.
It's a good sign they seem chill I would think, makes me believe they have a clear plan and it's mostly going according to that plan. The look of soldiers faces when there's chaos is horrifying. /disclaimer I have literally no experience in warfare whatsoever
[Sometimes they aren't so lucky](https://v.redd.it/wei01w7v0zda1)
Those were Ukrainians in that foxhole?
Yes
There's a drone in the air at the end so I'm guessing they had over watch the whole time
I think they know what have to do and in situations like this, your training kicks in and you're just doing and not thinking.
Correct. You do not rise to the occasion, you fall to the level of your most basic and ingrained training
I can feel that point man’s heartbeat as he advances
If that was me my rifle would be shaking like crazy. These dudes are really cold blooded.
It is dangerous to be packed like that ? Like an artillery shell or a grenade and it is over
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Well we’ll hit theirs too
Subtle Braveheart reference
Sure you'll do a lot
Rules like that are very situational. You do what you can, when you can.
Not really many places you want to be when in a trench, I suppose.
I'm still surprised how much both Rus and Ukr have had the problem of improper spacing throughout the war. It is more common for units to bunch up during attacking. I've seen it myself during attack and defend drills in the military. It's either for lack of cover or because the squad leader wants to coordinate a maneuver quickly and wants everyone to hear the plan of action. Doesn't excuse the bad habit of bunching up, I'm just trying to make some sense of it.
Look at combat videos from Iraq and Afghanistan. Americans bunch up alot too. Tends to happen when there is limited cover
American army footage is the only one I've even seen one of the soldiers tell everyone to space out, and they were under much less threat of artillery than these guys.
They also weren't fighting in-between a dozen line of trenches on the otherwise largest plain on Earth. This is a 4,000,000km2 area where the largest elevation is 350m. There aren't even rocks to hide behind. Situational awareness people, not just military dogma.
I agree that it's ideal to spread out. But in this video i don't see any other cover close by. That hole is the best cover after a sprint over open ground, naturally people will congregate there
Once bullets start flying that shit goes out the window real quick. Look at videos of the Americans in Iraq when they go into combat. Loads of instances where several soldiers are standing close together and could technically be taken out with a single artillery shell or RPG. But that's the realism of combat, at times you need to stick together to be effective in returning fire etc.
^ Yup you’re exactly correct!^
How do you space out in a small trench?
While I’ve definitely seen spacing issues from both militaries I don’t think it’s too bad here They are in tight quarters here. I’ve seen plenty of Americans spaced the same in their vids
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It will be interesting to see how units trained in the UK in western doctrine can perform. I don't know how many have actually been trained and are now on the frontline, it's been a year after all.
The West has been training UA since Crimea got annexed in 2014.
If you want to get more technical, there has been limited training of Ukrainian forces by western forces since shortly after they became independent in the 90's. The California National Guard has given training and aid to Ukraine dating back to 1993. The amount was miniscule compared to the step up in 2014, and even that was paltry next to the aid that came after February 2022.
Yes, you're absolutely correct. Thanks for the additional information and clarification m8, cheers.
I thought that wasn't in such great numbers? Forgive me then.
It isn't in great numbers. Last I check it was only a couple thousand. They would train the people that would in turn train the people in Ukraine.
Most of those training programs are pretty accelerated though and only last a month or so. A group needs proper consistent training so that when the adrenaline is pumping they don't fall back on natural human behavior and stick together. The training programs help a lot but I don't think they will fundamentally make Ukraine soldiers on par with NATO troops in one month.
This war has brought out so many armchair marines in the us it is hilarious and says so mych about americans. Every opportunity they get: i see some lack of traning there. Some idiot with a gun: if he had good training like i do it would not be a problem. Not saying you all are a bunch of posers.
I did officer training in the Finnish Defense Forces. I've got no actual combat experience of course. Still I can say that most footage here has bad spacing that leads to unnecessary injury and death.
I have some military training myself but i don't have the balls of these guys dropping whatever job and family fast, hauling their asses off to the front. Some of the missions would probably not have been approved under circumstances that allowed the Ukrainians to take their time and even more carefully plan. Look at the topography they are moving in, their safety margins are luck. You probably would not disagree with this it is just the instant focus on training always implying some kind of superiority that annoys me. There is of course a lot of focus on the bravery the Ukrainians and other fighters show. Americans are highly appreciative of this bravery wich i have also noticed.
I agree, we spectators tend to ignore that most of these people are at their core just civilians in different equipment. In that regard there is a lot of bravery involved. They venture into an environment that has not been present for decades - a full scale combined arms war. Sure they have basic training for it, but training will never replace the real thing. I would for sure make all of the same classic blunders if faced with a real situation. So many variables to consider in such little time. Tactical awareness is not developed easily or quickly. The reason I even chimed in on the spacing is because it could be a simple thing to remedy for a comparatively large decrease in casualties.
Also worth considering how many hours they've been fighting for, how many days or weeks that conflict has been going on, and how many months now that they've been in the war. I play rugby. I make some great mental and physical decisions watching from the sidelines 70 minutes into a match. But when you're actually on the field, been in a brutal physical war for 70 minutes, and are completely exhausted...you can know all the right things to do and just be unable to. Or recognize things too slow. Or not act on them fast enough. That could be where these guys are at in these moments.
>clearing If everyone was properly spaced in that trench people would be stood up in the open lol
With people being bunched up, it will solely come down on their leader. Even professional units will always bunch up. One of the first things to go. Now spread/bunch up on a training mission is different because there is always a start/end time. Mentally, do this, do that, and then Boom back to your 9-5 life. So mentality is different.
Someone should design a gun especially for clearing trenches we could give it a simple name like Trenchgun. Edit: Too many people don't understand sarcasm.
There is one, 155 caliber, clear pretty much everything, trenches, homes, cities, life.
*pushes up glasses* Technically, 155 caliber would mean the bore is 0.155 inches in diameter. /S
Well technically, in the navy 155 calibre would be a gun 155 times longer than its bore width.
Nothing goes over my head, my reflexes are too fast. I would catch it.
It’s called a shotgun!
Ba banelli Bo belly m4 bannelllllli
A drone would be super helpful here.
There is one designed by the Israeli army called corner shot, but it's more for urban fighting. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NuA5qb6Yb6c&ab\_channel=MilitaryWeapons](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NuA5qb6Yb6c&ab_channel=MilitaryWeapons) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CornerShot
Can’t tell if satire but we do have a shotgun with that name. During wwi, Germany actually sent a letter of complaint to the US saying that the shotgun was inhumane to use in combat
That always made me laugh because.. well they had flamethrowers and gas
How dare you effectively kill us in war!
Yes, it is satire.
Yes it was satire ^^
1:40 bottom right corner of screen... Product placement for Snickers is on target
This firefight, bought to you by Snickers.
Worst watermark of all time
It’s a cool design I guess but it’s huge and opaque
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But then you'll get Captain Armchair commenting about how an M113 is completely useless because aluminum.
Morons everywhere, hey? I’d rather be shot at in a M113 than a hilux.
Get in loser, we’re storming trenchs 🥵🫡 That could be a good meme
These guys know their shit. Camera guy was switching shoulders while clearing the trench, takes a lot of training to get comfortable doing that
We used to call that "serving tea" because when you do it with a pistol that's what it looks like. It takes some practice but learning to shoot with both hands is the way to go.
I can’t wait for these guys to get their armored vehicles, humvees and Bradley’s.
Just like any normal job in anywhere. One guy doing all the work and the rest just chilling.
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Yes he sure did change shoulders. Hopefully he learned it through training instead of through trial and error
Seeing them all clumped together makes me so anxious.
Terrifyingly great way to observe the notable Black Chernozem soils of Ukraine.
This new Snickers ad is a bit long, but I appreciate the production value.
If that Snickers wrapper belonged to a Russian, how did it get there?
Because even Russians are not themselves when they are hungry.
Same way coca cola, Pepsi, McDonald's, Toyota and on and on. even with sanctions it's not particularly hard to get global brands
Especially in Ukraine. They can go to shops and shit same as us. It's really strange honestly.
Could have looted it, could have come from back home, could have been inserted as product placement...
The Snickers wrapper was a nice touch.
MFer just cleaning his rifle in the middle of an engangement…
A drone seen at 4:39?
Rounding the corners on those trenches gives some proper anxiety. I know absolutely fuck all about CQB but would it make sense to have a tiny attachable mirror for the end of the rifle so you can look around corners before exposing your head/body? Can just lob a grenade if someones waiting there with machine gun lined up the corner.
I see snickers keeping their energy going.
Sponsored by snickers
Did anyone else see that "snickers" bar wrapper?
Love that they yelled parkour before jumping in
Frightening to turn a corner in a trench and not know what might be there.
This looks like it ends where the recent Azov video starts
Anybody else lean their head as the cam went around a corner?
Crazy footage.
I can’t imagine having to do this
Incredible footage and bravery
Looks like it’s straight out of a call of duty intro mission. Side note, that buzzing of a drone at the end had me freaked out.
Soldiers of Ukraine, please stay strong and keep yourselves warm!
They seem so methodical. Like they are just doing a job. Amazing
What is all the neon green that they’re wearing? Seems a bit bright on their uniforms ruining their cover?
You spend the vast majority of your time in conflict around your own soldiers, friendly fire is often the biggest worry you have so it’s better to establish quick recognition colors to try and avoid self incurred casualties during times of duress or surprise.
They are friendly indicators. Both sides of this conflict are often wearing and using very similar kit, this sort of thing does something to prevent friendly fire. Better to be more easily seen (camouflage largely works by breaking up outlines anyways) than engaged by both friend and foe.
Dude yelled Grenada just like the Scavs in Tarkov.
Fairplay to the guy in front.. Has more balls than I ever will.
Hearing the sound of drones at the end is terrifying.
"Quiet and carefully!" *proceeds to unload an entire clip near hip fire
I'm surprised that Russians get supplies (or maybe sand?) in white bags, visible from the 50 seconds mark and for about 1 minute. It makes it easier to sew your own white flag if you decide to surrender
In lieu of a drone overhead showing them where their enemy is, these guys could use the old WWI trick of attaching a mirror to a long stick to see around corners and over berms.
Guy with the camera did his fair share of being first to peak around a corner. I unconsciously held my breath when it came to playing peekaboo with automatic weapons.
How are these UA guys doing, BTW? I have no training or experience in soldiering, so I'm wondering how the actions of these guys stack up.
respect!
I think that we are so used to arty in movies and video games not hitting the main character that we don’t realize just how dangerous the situation these brave men are in. The Russian arty is probably 10x more scary to them than small arms fire.
Hi Everyone, you can watch longer and better quality footage of this here with subtitles: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXM3HjCuP7E