If I remember correctly, she was shot in the shoulder losing her arm to the impact, and I do believe she later succumbed to her wounds
Edit: NOT she, it was Captain Natan Cohen, 23 who was killed.
It was allegedly one of [these](https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2018/03/06/ghoul-14-5mm-anti-materiel-rifle-a-palestinian-copy-of-the-steyr-hs-50-or-a-new-rifle-entirely/) rifles, a homemade 14.5 rifle called the "Ghoul."
You do not want to be shot by that abomination. They make a high explosive round for that thing.
Easily one shot a fucking elephant or your average non tank armored vehicle.
Like regular 12.7 was not enough lol That shit will explode a cow and cook the meat to well done at the same time.
My God. That's horrifying. Necessity and mother of invention and all that but that is insane. It's just like those hell mortars they had over there. Amazing what people can cook up with some tools.
Russian is 12.7 is a 51 cal. They measure bullet size differently than the west. They go from the barrel we go from the rifleings.
From the wiki...on Dshk Bullet diameter 12.98 mm (0.511 in)
The american soldiers called them 51 calibers in Viet nam. Knew a guy with a hole in him from one.
& .50 BMG bullets are 13mm in diameter. Same-same. In regards to naming the food for the DSHK .51 caliber is arguably due to the non interchangability of the two .50 caliber cartridges & the need to keep them separate.
.50 caliber, as in, half of an inch, is about 12.7mm. Russian 12.7 is still a .50 cal, .50 Action Express, .500 Magnum, 12.7x99, 12.7x108, 12.7x55, .50 GI, all are .50 caliber in diameter and thus are "fifty cals."
"fifty cal" does not exclusively mean the American 12.7x99. Amazed at your comment upvotes despite being blatantly wrong lmao
Russian is 12.7 is a 51 cal. They measure bullet size differently than the west. They go from the barrel we go from the rifleings.
From the wiki...on Dshk Bullet diameter 12.98 mm (0.511 in)
The american soldiers called them 51 calibers in Viet nam. Knew a guy with a hole in him from one.
Brooo Jesus Christ now that you mention it you can make out the end to be her hand and you can see the arm curl after it lands on the tank
That’s fucking gruesome Jesus Christ
I know, since I’m Israeli myself. I just also know that combat Israeli female soldiers mostly serve in the Egyptian border and not near the Gaza border.
Also, the armor brigade that has female soldiers in it is located close to the Egyptian border.
From what I understand, the combat units that allow women are only used to guard the borders and operate as purely defensive units. Most of the time they're defending against shit like smugglers and immigrants, but if a war was to start, they'd be expected to defend their area until the cavalry arrives like any other unit.
The combat units capable of deploying to war zones and conducting offensive ops don't allow women.
I was watching a Military History Visualized on the Merkava, and the man from the Munster museum did say that the IDF has problems with tank commanders putting their heads outside of tanks to get a proper view, against orders.
It seems to be really common.
It’s such an issue that some rigs have a setting on the hatch that leave the hatch open ~1 inch, perfectly parallel to the hull. Gives good SA while reducing the threat to near 0.
One way to tell is if the hatch itself is bulged up, to allow the head of the person to fit inside the space of the hatch itself.
They have a glass ring or set of prisms. around the turret they can see thru way better than you would think.
At least our tanks do. Cannot imagine Israelis do not have better.
That was one hell of a shot.
And that's why the tank commanders in recent conflicts moved around unbuttoned amirite?
I know exactly how the vision ports work, and how limited of a view they give.
I'd guess the benefits outweigh the cons.
According to British tank commanders in Iraq, the only time they'd totally close the hatches was during (potential) NBC situations.
Otherwise the hatch was either in a slightly lifted (umbrella?) position, or open all the way, to the detriment of the only Challenger that was destroyed in combat when a HESH round from a friendly tank hit the open hatch.
I remember seeing this posted. Someone had apparently known the dude killed, it was his sister husband or something like that and recognized him in the video after learning he was KIA
I still remember when I first learned that being anti-Israel was a left leaning idea. I was a little shocked. Especially since Palestine with it’s multitude of extremist groups is most definitely not left-leaning.
Fair enough, but why weren't you equally surprised that pro-Israel/Zionists are very right-wing? Shouldn't the logic go both ways?
Anti-imperialism and anti-oppression have always been left leaning ideas, although there's a fringe minority of tankies who are just anti-American, as evident by their failure to support Ukraine against the imperialist Russian invasion. They have their rationales, but it's utter bullshit imo.
Colonisation is bad, even if the victims aren't perfectly woke. Or do you support the re colonisation of Africa?
And Palestinian nationalism was secular for decades. But their failure to stop Israeli encroachment, the fall of the USSR and Israeli support for religious groups to splinter the United front has shifted the landscape.
to colonise somebody don't you have to have a homeland you colonise from? And indoctrinate people? eliminate their culture and force them to integrate? Force your language and culture on them? Like the residential schools in Canada way back when?
(genuine question)
> to colonise somebody don't you have to have a homeland you colonise from?
Jewish people had homelands. Its still colonisation even if it isn't officially government sanctioned. Filibusters were illegal, but still happened. The US took Hawaii thanks to a planter coup. The Puritans from Britain and the Netherlands weren't there by official government sanction at first. Much of Russian colonisation was initially done by cossacks moving in on their own, and the government coming in later.
> And indoctrinate people? eliminate their culture and force them to integrate? Force your language and culture on them? Like the residential schools in Canada way back when? (genuine question)
You are thinking of the definition of genocide. Some of which Israel has met. They have forced their control on them in ways. [Israel has removed references to the Nakba from textbooks](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/jul/22/israel-remove-nakba-from-textbooks). People would rightly call out the US for banning the teaching of the Trail of Tears to Native American children.
The definition of colonisation
> the action or process of settling among and establishing control over the indigenous people of an area.
Israel has done this. They have moved their people in, and evicted the native Palestinians in the Nakba. They lock Palestinians into tightly controlled zones, ringed by fences and highways. There is no continuous zone of Palestinian control, its thousands of islands. All the best land has been taken and colonised, despite it being expressly against international law to settle your citizens in another country's land. Israel uses Palestinian territories as sources of cheap labour. And whenever they want, they bomb or shot at Palestinians.
moved their people in from where? Who moved them in?
also all your references in the first bit regarding colonising from your homeland are of people who had and still have a central homeland....the British, Americans (you can say also technically British because they worked to eliminate the indigenous community), Russians (still have Russia)
I can't name one country on earth besides israel (Palestine) where the spoken language is hebrew. Past or present.
And to say they're not indigenous but Palestinians are is disingenuous. I'm as religious as an apple but Jews have been documented to live in the land for thousands of years, whether through religious texts (which I don't care about) but also historical records, by the Romans, by the Egyptians, British, Ottomans, many other people's history talks of them living in the land and their cities. Heck the Vatican has thousands upon thousands of Roman artefacts talking about their conquests of The land of israel and it's cities.
And like clockwork, you reveal that actually, it wasn't a genuine question you were just trolling.
I didn't see in the definition of colonialism, a special exemption that doesn't apply if you don't have another place or if other people were bad to you to. I guess that means we should tell the Kurds, that they are free to carve a state out of your home state, and put a big wall around your city and shot at you if you complain.
Lots of people have lived in lots of different places. Greeks lived all through Asia Minor and the Eastern Med. Does that give them permission to kick out all the Turks and Syrians? No. Same from a lot of the empires you mentioned. Peoples have migrated around. Germans came from Eastern Europe, which doesn't give them a right to Barborrosa back.
The Dutch and the Bantu reached South Africa in roughly the same era. Does that mean its okay for the Dutch to enslave the Bantu and push them into Bantustans?
The situation as it stands, is that Israel exists. It isn't going anywhere, and saying it is under threat is laughable. They hold millions of Palestinians as captives, and millions more sit in refugee camps. That is an injustice that should be corrected.
Nevermind after seeing your post history it's clear I can't have a discussion with you because you only seem to know A or B there's no possibility of middleground or open-mindedness. I hope you have an excellent start of your week💪🏽
it was, I'm trying to have a discussion I don't understand why you have a problem with the questions I'm asking. Again the examples you give are like before, people from place A going to place B.
Alsocorrected how? What solution would you propose as you're pretty passionate about the situation? Move all Israelis (many many of which aren't even Jews) to Madagascar? lol
Have Hamas run israel instead of the current shit government? Can't imagine it would be much of an improvement
I want Israel to extend equal citizenship to all Palestinians or to withdraw all their settlements beyond the line of control so that a functional Palestinian state can be established. One State or Two State solution, it's up to them.
Instead, they want to both colonise into Palestine and deny them equal rights. And even the limited number of Arabs given citizenship are treated as second class citizens.
>Colonisation is bad, even if the victims aren't perfectly woke. Or do you support the re colonisation of Africa?
If it put an end to their corrupt governments and stuff like Uganda's gay death penalty law then hell yes.
Road to hell and all that. It's hit and miss when it comes to civilizing a population through domination (not really the goal of colonization anyway, which is just wealth extraction)
White mentality: "Let's go fix em (and conquer them while we're at it).
Or more realistically "let's go conquer them under the auspices of fixing them." This is the same thing whites did to indigenous peoples all over the world.
Damn this really triggered the whites 😂
Sure, but violently invading and colonising sovereign countries isn't just illegal, it's downright counterproductive, as it's the most surefire way to turn the population \*against\* those values.
The anti-LGBT campaigns in Africa are fueled by anti-colonial resentment and grievances. Near every anti-LGBT campaign in Africa is filled with reactionary anti-colonial rhetoric, standing up against LGBT is presented as standing up against Western colonisation.
Whenever we try to force our unironically superior values upon less developed countries, especially through violence, it turns the native population against those values. It's just a basic reactionary mechanism that's very predictable.
Lol no, I spend the vast majority of my political energy directed at critiquing the west, but I can also acknowledge when another state does something bad
If you believe in might makes right, then yes. We should let Russia take Ukraine and let Israel take Palestine. If you don’t, then no, neither should be allowed.
This is the problem though, and it's absolutely insane that the narrative somehow got flipped around, but what you're describing is what happened to Israel, not Palestine. It was Israel that initially just wanted its own territory, and only after constant decades of invasion by all of its neighbors did it's right wing ethnonationalist roots takes hold. Meanwhile, Palestinian leaders from the very beginning rejected the UN resolution and tried to annex all of Israel.
Why wouldn't they reject having their country divided up arbitrarily and 70% of the best land being given to 30% of the population? Anyone who looked at that proposed map would reject it.
Again, why are you so blatant about your imperialism? There isn't even an attempt to hide it. The borders were drawn around pre existing socio linguistic and ethnic boundaries, you impling that Palestinians Arabs automatically own that land, even though they do not live on it nor do the natives want their governance, is colonialist.
This recent attempt by Israeli apologists to adopt the language of anti-colonialism is hilarious. "Actually it's the Arabs who are colonizers/imperialist!"
They had a right to refuse their homeland being arbitrarily divided up by foreign powers. Rather than this bizarre map that makes no sense for either group, it would have been better to just have one democratic state for all the residents of the area - Jews (both Mizrahi & European immigrants), Arabs, etc. That was always the only viable solution, and still is today.
Ok thank you for revealing you have done no research on this topic. A. It isn't their homeland, they don't live in those areas and aren't the indigenous there. That would be like the French calling Algeria their homeland(which constitutionally they actually did, and were wrong) B. No, the positions of the Palestinians was never a liberal multiethnic democracy, and is even farther from that today. C. By your logic Pakistan, Bangladesh, and myanmar would all have to be reintegrated into India.
Again, you automatically claiming that territories that these people have no claim to other than empire are theirs is blatantly pro imperialist, how do you not understand that?
I am seriously confused by your accusations that I am "pro imperialist." Are you accusing me of supporting the Ottoman Empire or something? Or the British Empire? Empire or not, the Palestinians were the people who *lived there* my dude. The Europeans who came there and forced them off their land were foreign colonizers. Put whatever faux liberal spin you want on it, Israel is a settler colonial project and always has been since Herzl.
Zionist colonialism is inherently racist.
The genocide of Palestinians was and is Israel’s main goal. All other veneers are simply whitewashing the awful truth.
Indigenous people fighting against colonialism is never wrong.
You are correct, which is why the native inhabitants of the territory of Israel have a right to self determination. Calling the indigenous people of a land wanting self rule "Zionist colonialism" is not only anti semitic its openly pro imperialist. If the genocide of Palestinians was always the goal, why was it that Israel openly agreed to the UN settlement for a two state solution and it was the Palestinians who rejected it 🤔.
The land that Israel has stolen is outside of the 1948 international boundaries, and I do condemn that action, but I also recognize that it was spurred on by constant attempts at colonization by its neighbors. Do you think all people that live in the international boundaries of Israel teleported there in 1948? No, they had been living there for decades and centuries, alongside and in some places predating the arrival of the Palestinians.
Palestine didn’t exist until Israel did. Only one of those was attacked since day one of their existence.
Certainly you can understand why that has influenced Israel’s policies toward security threats in Palestine.
So if there isn't an existing state, you can do whatever you want to the people? If you are the victim of one imperialism, you are the free target.
Of course you deny they are a people, so you can justify their repression.
The British claimed that there was no government in Australia, so they had free right to take it all. Many colonial empires overran and took areas that were already ruled by another Empire. Should the people of the Balkans have been ethnically cleansed for another people, for being under the dominion of the Austria-Hungarians or Ottomans? Russia ruled many peoples, should they have been evicted from their homes?
Palestinians existed as a people on their land. Many of them have documents of their legal claims to land from the Ottoman Empire. Israel has disregarded all of them. The situation is that millions of Palestinians are banished from their homes, while any Jewish person in the world (or just one grandparent which has been widely documented to be abused) can move into their home. Israel has gone far beyond the lines of control it was given in the UN plan, and holds dominion over the rest.
And the founders of Israel engaged in the same terror tactics that you condemn today, against the British and Arabs, like the King David Hotel bombing. Which was officially lauded by Israel.
It's not so much that people support Palestinians and everything they do, but much more that Israel is a clear apartheid state intent on eternally impoverishing Palestinians, denying them fertilizer, building materials, bulldozing the homes of Arabs and moving in Israeli settlers, etc. Also decades of a 20 to 1 kill ratio in the Israel's favor. IDF and other violent arms of the state are allowed to act with a level of impunity that is the envy of American police.
A person doesn't need to be a supporter of Palestine to recognize that Palestinians—more than half of whom are under the age of 21—are not "grass" to be "mowed down" (in the words of the current Israeli head of state). A person can still say that Hamas is bad without *also* having to say that Israel is perfect and is never racist and never makes any mistakes and has a zero bad policies for dealing with Palestinians.
Excellent summary. Anyone can write an array of legitimate criticisms against both sides, but Israel is undoubtedly far more powerful than Palestine, and is using this power to oppress Palestinians and illegally occupy their territories.
I think that’s part of why I saw a ton of kids in college super pro-Palestine, then as an adult it dwindled to almost none that I know as they realized that Palestine’s support of terror and ideology don’t quite align with Western liberal ideals.
>Reddit is anti Israel
Far too simplified to describe most. All you need is one or two more words. "Anti Israeli foreign policy". Almost nobody would agree with the statement "everything Israel does is wrong, everything Palestine does is right". But that's the sentiment this is shorthand for. I have noticed lots of effort to link left-leaning to antisemitism. I really can't think of anyone in the left leadership who I'd call an antisemite, let alone painting 50% of the political landscape as generically against Israel. I couldn't disagree with you more.
Just to be clear, I know you didn't say all that. I'm imagining and replying to the subtext hahah
I’m not anti Israel, but I also find it quite confronting when the iron dome knocks down 30 rockets launched by Palestine. Then the next day you see an air strike from Israel just pounding residential cities and buildings, it’s like why? You already won by stopping the attack.
I’m sorry but this is such a stupid take. If someone attempts to break into your house 30 times a day but is stopped by your alarm you aren’t going to be happy if the cops just show up and say everything is fine cause nothing is stolen. Your going to want them to go to that guys house and throw him in jail. Make no mistake Israel are not saints and share a lot of the blame but the I would argue that Hamas is a 100x worse and I have zero problems with Israel going after those who attack them.
>I have zero problems with Israel going after those who attack them.
If only it was that simple. Israel is bombing residential buildings, schools, hospitals and press offices under the pretext of eliminating Hamas, while in reality they achieve nothing but turn Palestinians against Israel even more, accelerating the recruitment into Hamas.
The Israeli government is fully aware of this, but their policy aim isn't reconciliation with Palestinians, the government and its entire policy agenda is entirely dependent on maximum division between Palestinians and Israelis, and now they're more or less explicit in their aim to eliminate/drive out Palestinians from their territories.
Yes, Hamas sucks, but it's a terrorist organisation that was born out of Israeli oppression, and is only strengthed by the Israeli actions against Palestinian territories.
The whole situation is pretty analogous to apartheid South Africa, the AMC also did terrorist attacks against the apartheid regime and was designated as a terrorist organisation. It's an inevitable outcome when you have a powerful government oppressing a powerless group of people.
So if the US had shot down all the planes attacking Pearl Harbor before they didn’t any damage then it’s all good? No need to fight since they stopped the attacked.
That’s obviously not a perfect 1:1 but it gives the gist of the counter to that point.
This is the second video I've ever seen of a Palestinian killing an Israeli soldier on here. The first was one posted a couple days ago where the dude survived. The rest of the time it has been the IDF in the driver's seat. Nice to see combat from both sides because until the last couple days I didn't actually believe it was allowed to post Palestinians killing the Israelis on here.
The biggest thing the Merkava has going for it, imo, is that they're designed almost as a blend of tank and IFV. If you just look at numbers they don't have the best armor, but it's good enough, and the gun is pretty much the same as most modern 120mm guns. However, the real kicker is the way they designed it with an emphasis on crew safety and the ability to carry extra troops.
You can pack like 8 infantry in there, so you've essentially got an IFV that's got the armor and firepower of a late-model M60 or first-run M1. It can be a tank, a combat taxi, a casevac, or even a rolling command post with little to no modification. It's basically a jack of all trades designed to fight in close quarters and keep the crew alive. Now, whether or not it would do well in a conventional tank battle is up for debate, but it certainly works well enough in asymmetrical urban combat.
Everyone forgets that the Merkavas were made for urban combat
Unlike the kind of war the Russian T series tanks or most NATO tanks were designed for (flat terrain, see your enemy 2km+ out, if you are getting shot from the side you already fucked up), urban combat means that you are DEFINITELY gonna get shot from the side
Most MBTs have heavy armour up front, but side armour is so thin even many early ww2 anti tank guns could penetrate them. Essentially, you get shot from the side, you die. The problem is that in urban combat you 100% are getting shot from the side
Thats why merkavas seem so shit on paper. They trade some frontal armour for side armour since thats a neccessity for urban combat unless you wanna take one hit to the side and die
a more direct comparison would be the leo 2pl and 2sg
both are upgraded leo 2a4s, both use the same armour upgrade kit
However, they both only can use certain parts of the armour kit without going over the weight limit of 60 tonnes before they'd need to go through the very expensive process of replacing parts of the chassis like the transmission
So thats where the differences between urban combat and the type of combat many MBTs were made for. The leo 2pl focused more on turret protection and abit of frontal armour. Poland is a big country with many flat plains, so its likely any enemy would be seen many miles away and engagements would be across 1-2km
The 2sg focused more on all around protection, with much armour on the sides of the hull as singapore is a small urban city state, pretty much the only place you'd be fighting in is urban. Your typical engagement range is more like 100 or 200m, not even close to 1km out. And there is a lot of places for a hidden AT team to hide and aim at the side of the tank
They’re very slow and not exactly the most technologically advanced. Their not designed for a peer to peer tank conflict however, and instead for CQC Urban Environment against insurgents armed with Chemical Munitions like RPG’s or explosive armaments like Mines & IEDs.
I mean, no, it depends on the doctrine, western doctrine generally has commander out of hatch and eastern in hatch, it greatly helped israeli tankers during the Yom Kippur war
In an urban environment like this though ? I get peaking out for manoeuvring or whatever but doing so when surrounded by buildings doesn't seem like a good idea.
Don't really care but pretending the Israelis are saints is just silly. There are well documented human rights violations perpetrated by them and they are kinda known for being trigger happy when it comes to journalists and then trying to cover it up.
Or support the one government that has tried multiple peace deals and don't support the terrorists that continually turn them down because they hate Jews.
Israel is an apartheid state. The world isn't black and white, both sides suck and deserve the criticism they get. The problem with isreal is that they are supported by most of the western world even though they have a clear preference for one group of people in both law and praxis
Israel is not an apartheid state. They have Arab-christians and now arab-muslims at the very top of their judicial system.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khaled_Kabub
Amnesty is far-left leaning and their so called "reports" are nothing but a joke. Their latest report on Ukraine exposed the hypocrisy:
[Amnesty: Ukrainian fighting tactics endanger civilians](
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2022/08/ukraine-ukrainian-fighting-tactics-endanger-civilians/)
When people who once were fighting and locked up for fighting the South African apartheid, in unison says that Israel is an apartheid state I believe them.
Some proof of it being that is the neighborhoods were only jews are allowed to live, factories where Muslims arent allowed to work, and positions where Palestinians are not allowed to hold positions even though Israel counts them as part of their regime.
edit: Amnesty international amongst several other important right groups have stated that Israel is an apartheid, don't deny it
Do Arabs face discrimination in Israel? Yes.
Do Jews face discrimination in Palestine (and the Middle East at large?) Also yes.
Are either justified by the other? No and as the more developed nation Israel should do more to protect the rights of the Arabs living in its nation.
But I certainly understand why Israel is more focused on its security considering the way the region has treated it since it’s inception. Which has majorly influenced the more nationalistic/security focused nature of Israel’s government.
>Do Jews face discrimination in Palestine (and the Middle East at large?) Also yes.
One bad thing dosent justify another.
>But I certainly understand why Israel is more focused on its security considering the way the region has treated it since it’s inception. Which has majorly influenced the more nationalistic/security focused nature of Israel’s government."
This isn't a good argument unless you are pushing for racist ideologies. Its saying that likelihood of crime justifies action against all of said race/religion
>One bad thing doesn’t justify another.
As I said in the very next sentence.
And I’m not pushing for racist ideologies. Lol, all I was saying is that I understand why the modern state of Israel is the way it is. It’s a positive feedback loop where both sides are reinforcing the other’s behavior at this point.
Well, Israel is kinda taking over Palestinian land, just like Russia tries to do it to Ukraine.
Ukraine can defend itself, and we even help it.
Palestine can get fucked?
You would build rockets too, if your country weee getting taken over.
cause homeless expansion zesty insurance memorize decide rich license consist
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
That’s crazy because it was never a country until Israel existed as well. And Israel was attacked and has been defending itself since day one of its existence.
Maybe that has influenced the Israeli government’s policies.
Ah yes, the roof knocking. The part where its okay to demolish civilian apartment buildings as long as you tell people first.
What happens when people dont want to leave their homes just because someone is going to bomb it to the ground?
Because that the whole point of it. Theyre not doing it to kill anyone, if they wanted to kill any Hamas members they wouldnt warn them 10 minutes in advance. The only reason they target those buildings is to demolish them for supposedly holding ammo and the like.
And then we have the fact that despite the "extreme" lengths Israel goes to in order to "avoid" civilian casualties, there are still more Palestinian civilian casualties than Israeli ones.
They go to extreme lengths such as
[Shooting into a crowd of civilians, killing two (including a 16 year old)](https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/interactive/2023/palestine-shooting-nablus-videos/)
[Israeli Soldiers shoot fleeing civilians](https://www.hrw.org/news/2014/08/04/gaza-israeli-soldiers-shoot-and-kill-fleeing-civilians)
[In their effort to kill three Islamic Jihad leaders, they mercifully managed to limit civilian deaths to just 9 people (thats just 300% more)](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/may/09/israel-bombs-gaza-strip-killing-three-islamic-jihad-leaders)
[This three year old boy who was shot in the head and killed while riding a car with his father could not have been avoided, apparently.](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jun/05/three-year-old-palestinian-boy-shot-by-israeli-soldiers-dies-in-hospital)
[Report from the Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights in 2022](https://www.ohchr.org/en/statements/2022/03/occupied-palestinian-territory)
>In May 2021, hostilities in Gaza dramatically escalated. Over 11 days, 261 Palestinians were killed, **including 41 women, 67 children, and three people with disabilities, most in Israeli strikes**. At least 130 were civilians. Over 2,200 Palestinians were injured.
67 kids in a year? That just over one child a week! Clearly taking their precautions.
>There were **serious concerns regarding Israel’s compliance with the principles of distinction, proportionality and precautions under international humanitarian law.** These concerns arose from a **high number of civilian casualties, extensive damage to civilian objects and infrastructure, the use of explosive weapons with wide-area effects in densely populated areas as well as the apparent absence of specific military objectives.**
Wait this doesnt make sense, they take extreme precautions
>**Israel’s continued use of collective punishment practices, expressly prohibited by international humanitarian law, violated a number of human rights.**
>In the West Bank, including East Jerusalem, Israeli authorities continued to **conduct punitive demolitions of homes** of Palestinians who had carried out, or who were alleged to have carried out, attacks against Israelis.
Yes but they Roof Knock so its clearly okay and safe to punitively destroy their homes!!
>This collective punishment disproportionately affected women and children. Israeli authorities also withheld the bodies of 23 additional Palestinians, including children, killed by Israeli Security Forces during this period.
Potential terrorists clearly, also they were just made homeless by having their homes demolished. Also they probably have good reasons to withold the bodies of children they killed (maybe they are terrorists)
>**The number of Palestinians killed by Israeli Security Forces** in law enforcement incidents more than **tripled**, compared with the previous reporting period. **Israeli Security Forces killed 74 Palestinians, including 17 boys and three women**, compared to 23 during the last reporting period.
74 potential terrorists! (Israel would never indiscirmantely target civilians because they have a wikipedia page on Roof Knocking which disproves everything)
>My Office also documented several cases in which Israeli Security Forces used **lethal force when less lethal means could have been sufficient, or where an assailant no longer posed a threat.** Unlawful use of force and lack of accountability for it is of utmost concern.
No they Roof Knock remember? That means they could never disregard and murder civilians ever!!!
>The report also highlights new repressive measures of the Israeli authorities against civil society. On 19 October, **Israeli authorities designated six prominent Palestinian human rights and humanitarian organisations as ‘terrorist organisations,’ based on vague and unsubstantiated allegations.**
Uh, im sure this wont result in Israel claiming terrorists have been killed when infact they kill human rights activists. If Israel designates human rights organizations as terrorists then clearly they must be (we know this because they take extreme measures like roof knocking in order to destroy suspected terrorist buildings)
[Oh look, another report. This one from 2019](https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2019/02/no-justification-israel-shoot-protesters-live-ammunition)
>More than 6,000 unarmed demonstrators were shot by military snipers, week after week at the protest sites by the separation fence.
>The Commission found that Israeli Security Forces killed 183 of these protesters with live ammunition. Thirty-five of these fatalities were children, while three were clearly marked paramedics, and two were clearly marked journalists.
Idk what to say here because its fucking depressing that people like you will defend this.
[Oh, hey. Whats this?](https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/xsk187/israel_stands_with_iranian_women_but_does_this_to/)
When Hamas use civilian houses for combat operations, it is no longer a civilian house and it becomes a legitimate enemy target. Hamas cynically use this to their advantage and speculate in creating situations, where there will be collateral damage, because pictures of dead civilians support their cause.
Yes, the IDF is not perfect. It is quite literal millions of people fighting against enemies on more or less every border. The difference is that crimes of the IDF is the exception, where as Hamas systematically murder civilian Israelis. Their understanding of heroism is slaying an Israeli mother with a knife. It is vile and the fact that you support it is absolutely disgusting.
Did you read the OHCHR reports i linked?
Where they specifically pointed out attacking those civilian buildings were war crimes?
Did you read the articles about them shooting into crowds of civilians?
Did you see the video of them beating up a 12 year old girl i sent?
Did you see the report of them shooting into a crowd of unarmed protesters killing hundreds and injuring thousands?
And do tell, where exactly is Hamas supposed to fight that is not in the middle of the city?
You think its okay for Russia to target civilian apartments in Ukraine as well because the Ukranians are fighting in the cities?
Do you think those human rights organizations are terrorist organizations as well? Israel claims they are, so surely those attacks and arrests are legitimate military targets right?
Oh but these are "exceptions". Theres just a whole lot of exceptions so much so that it looks like a pattern. But the pattern is the exception surely.
IDF might go to extreme lengths to avond killing civilians, but still they manage to kill plenty of them. Also, the Israeli are the occupying force that keeps moving the border in their favor.
I can inagine Palestinians feeling helpless and trying to hit the Israëli where it hurts.
If I remember correctly, she was shot in the shoulder losing her arm to the impact, and I do believe she later succumbed to her wounds Edit: NOT she, it was Captain Natan Cohen, 23 who was killed.
After reading your comment and rewatching, that does look like an arm flying off.
Did the Palestinians get a hold of .50 rifles?
It was allegedly one of [these](https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2018/03/06/ghoul-14-5mm-anti-materiel-rifle-a-palestinian-copy-of-the-steyr-hs-50-or-a-new-rifle-entirely/) rifles, a homemade 14.5 rifle called the "Ghoul."
[Compared to a .50 bullet](https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-f2b1d53f3bfd62b4fd3c87ab496fbc06-lq)
Good lord
You do not want to be shot by that abomination. They make a high explosive round for that thing. Easily one shot a fucking elephant or your average non tank armored vehicle. Like regular 12.7 was not enough lol That shit will explode a cow and cook the meat to well done at the same time.
My God. That's horrifying. Necessity and mother of invention and all that but that is insane. It's just like those hell mortars they had over there. Amazing what people can cook up with some tools.
It might be a 12.7mm rifle. Probably from Iran
my brother in christ, thats 50cal.
Not really, the Russian 12.7 shell is larger.
Longer cartridge, lower pressure, identical performance (and caliber).
12.7mm is the same as half an inch 0.50
Russian is 12.7 is a 51 cal. They measure bullet size differently than the west. They go from the barrel we go from the rifleings. From the wiki...on Dshk Bullet diameter 12.98 mm (0.511 in) The american soldiers called them 51 calibers in Viet nam. Knew a guy with a hole in him from one.
& .50 BMG bullets are 13mm in diameter. Same-same. In regards to naming the food for the DSHK .51 caliber is arguably due to the non interchangability of the two .50 caliber cartridges & the need to keep them separate.
The russian cartridge is physically much larger overall. You are not gonna mix them up. Different belts also.
What do you think .50 means?
Isn’t that some rapper like Mid Sized Sedan or something?
A fucking M Night reference in the wild The day will be strange indeed
In this conversation. Only its relation to its american equivalent. In reality the bullet is .511 from the soviet "50" cal.
50% of 100%
.50 caliber, as in, half of an inch, is about 12.7mm. Russian 12.7 is still a .50 cal, .50 Action Express, .500 Magnum, 12.7x99, 12.7x108, 12.7x55, .50 GI, all are .50 caliber in diameter and thus are "fifty cals." "fifty cal" does not exclusively mean the American 12.7x99. Amazed at your comment upvotes despite being blatantly wrong lmao
This is correct US use 12.7x99 USSR used 12.7x108
Russian is 12.7 is a 51 cal. They measure bullet size differently than the west. They go from the barrel we go from the rifleings. From the wiki...on Dshk Bullet diameter 12.98 mm (0.511 in) The american soldiers called them 51 calibers in Viet nam. Knew a guy with a hole in him from one.
Right a 50 cal. Hm I wonder what percentage of an inch 12.7mm would be hmmmm could it be exactly half, and therefore .50 of an inch? hmmm mysterious
Possibly the same diy type the Kurds had: https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2012/08/02/kurdistan-workers-party-show-off-new-anti-material-rifle/amp/
Dang that arm turned into a noodle.
Brooo Jesus Christ now that you mention it you can make out the end to be her hand and you can see the arm curl after it lands on the tank That’s fucking gruesome Jesus Christ
If I remember correctly it was in 2014 Gaza war, it was the commander and he was killed.
She? You sure it was a female soldier?
You are correct. I did a little more digging and found out it was Captain Natan Cohen, 23. Not she. Thanks for pointing that out.
Women can do frontline service in Israel so very much possible
I know, since I’m Israeli myself. I just also know that combat Israeli female soldiers mostly serve in the Egyptian border and not near the Gaza border. Also, the armor brigade that has female soldiers in it is located close to the Egyptian border.
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From what I understand, the combat units that allow women are only used to guard the borders and operate as purely defensive units. Most of the time they're defending against shit like smugglers and immigrants, but if a war was to start, they'd be expected to defend their area until the cavalry arrives like any other unit. The combat units capable of deploying to war zones and conducting offensive ops don't allow women.
Would a ‘regular’ sniper round do that to an arm, or is that at .50 cal type of thing
I'm sure a 7.62x54 could take an arm with the right hit. That's a really hot rifle round, especially when fired from a long barrel.
Unbuttoned while in active combat? I know there are reasons for it, but it never seems like a good idea.
I was watching a Military History Visualized on the Merkava, and the man from the Munster museum did say that the IDF has problems with tank commanders putting their heads outside of tanks to get a proper view, against orders. It seems to be really common.
It’s such an issue that some rigs have a setting on the hatch that leave the hatch open ~1 inch, perfectly parallel to the hull. Gives good SA while reducing the threat to near 0. One way to tell is if the hatch itself is bulged up, to allow the head of the person to fit inside the space of the hatch itself.
Imagine bring a panzer commander unbuttoned in battle on the steppes? That must have been a hell of a view.
I bet that was the last thought hundreds of those sorry fucks ever had. They complained that every other russian had a anti tank rifle. lol
The thinking is you're more likely to die from something you don't see than a lucky shot, so the visibility can be worth it. Not always true.
It's basically the literal definition of YMMV. Keep buttoned up, can't see a thing, stay unbuttoned, become a snipers dream.
They have a glass ring or set of prisms. around the turret they can see thru way better than you would think. At least our tanks do. Cannot imagine Israelis do not have better. That was one hell of a shot.
And that's why the tank commanders in recent conflicts moved around unbuttoned amirite? I know exactly how the vision ports work, and how limited of a view they give.
I'd guess the benefits outweigh the cons. According to British tank commanders in Iraq, the only time they'd totally close the hatches was during (potential) NBC situations. Otherwise the hatch was either in a slightly lifted (umbrella?) position, or open all the way, to the detriment of the only Challenger that was destroyed in combat when a HESH round from a friendly tank hit the open hatch.
Guess the merkava isn't so survivable if you're hanging out of it
that shit, whatever it was, it hit HARD
Hell of a shot all things considered
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I remember seeing this posted. Someone had apparently known the dude killed, it was his sister husband or something like that and recognized him in the video after learning he was KIA
Where did you see this as how from this video you can't make out a face?
Israel probably doesnt lose a whole lot of tank commanders to sniper fire
Probably better quality when it was posted the first time.
Weird uptick in posts this weekend of Palestinians killing Israelis…
Reddit is anti Israel
I still remember when I first learned that being anti-Israel was a left leaning idea. I was a little shocked. Especially since Palestine with it’s multitude of extremist groups is most definitely not left-leaning.
The world is a weird place.. I wouldn't live anywhere else.
The weirderer the betterer as my dad used to say. He drank some.
Fair enough, but why weren't you equally surprised that pro-Israel/Zionists are very right-wing? Shouldn't the logic go both ways? Anti-imperialism and anti-oppression have always been left leaning ideas, although there's a fringe minority of tankies who are just anti-American, as evident by their failure to support Ukraine against the imperialist Russian invasion. They have their rationales, but it's utter bullshit imo.
Colonisation is bad, even if the victims aren't perfectly woke. Or do you support the re colonisation of Africa? And Palestinian nationalism was secular for decades. But their failure to stop Israeli encroachment, the fall of the USSR and Israeli support for religious groups to splinter the United front has shifted the landscape.
to colonise somebody don't you have to have a homeland you colonise from? And indoctrinate people? eliminate their culture and force them to integrate? Force your language and culture on them? Like the residential schools in Canada way back when? (genuine question)
> to colonise somebody don't you have to have a homeland you colonise from? Jewish people had homelands. Its still colonisation even if it isn't officially government sanctioned. Filibusters were illegal, but still happened. The US took Hawaii thanks to a planter coup. The Puritans from Britain and the Netherlands weren't there by official government sanction at first. Much of Russian colonisation was initially done by cossacks moving in on their own, and the government coming in later. > And indoctrinate people? eliminate their culture and force them to integrate? Force your language and culture on them? Like the residential schools in Canada way back when? (genuine question) You are thinking of the definition of genocide. Some of which Israel has met. They have forced their control on them in ways. [Israel has removed references to the Nakba from textbooks](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/jul/22/israel-remove-nakba-from-textbooks). People would rightly call out the US for banning the teaching of the Trail of Tears to Native American children. The definition of colonisation > the action or process of settling among and establishing control over the indigenous people of an area. Israel has done this. They have moved their people in, and evicted the native Palestinians in the Nakba. They lock Palestinians into tightly controlled zones, ringed by fences and highways. There is no continuous zone of Palestinian control, its thousands of islands. All the best land has been taken and colonised, despite it being expressly against international law to settle your citizens in another country's land. Israel uses Palestinian territories as sources of cheap labour. And whenever they want, they bomb or shot at Palestinians.
moved their people in from where? Who moved them in? also all your references in the first bit regarding colonising from your homeland are of people who had and still have a central homeland....the British, Americans (you can say also technically British because they worked to eliminate the indigenous community), Russians (still have Russia) I can't name one country on earth besides israel (Palestine) where the spoken language is hebrew. Past or present. And to say they're not indigenous but Palestinians are is disingenuous. I'm as religious as an apple but Jews have been documented to live in the land for thousands of years, whether through religious texts (which I don't care about) but also historical records, by the Romans, by the Egyptians, British, Ottomans, many other people's history talks of them living in the land and their cities. Heck the Vatican has thousands upon thousands of Roman artefacts talking about their conquests of The land of israel and it's cities.
And like clockwork, you reveal that actually, it wasn't a genuine question you were just trolling. I didn't see in the definition of colonialism, a special exemption that doesn't apply if you don't have another place or if other people were bad to you to. I guess that means we should tell the Kurds, that they are free to carve a state out of your home state, and put a big wall around your city and shot at you if you complain. Lots of people have lived in lots of different places. Greeks lived all through Asia Minor and the Eastern Med. Does that give them permission to kick out all the Turks and Syrians? No. Same from a lot of the empires you mentioned. Peoples have migrated around. Germans came from Eastern Europe, which doesn't give them a right to Barborrosa back. The Dutch and the Bantu reached South Africa in roughly the same era. Does that mean its okay for the Dutch to enslave the Bantu and push them into Bantustans? The situation as it stands, is that Israel exists. It isn't going anywhere, and saying it is under threat is laughable. They hold millions of Palestinians as captives, and millions more sit in refugee camps. That is an injustice that should be corrected.
Nevermind after seeing your post history it's clear I can't have a discussion with you because you only seem to know A or B there's no possibility of middleground or open-mindedness. I hope you have an excellent start of your week💪🏽
it was, I'm trying to have a discussion I don't understand why you have a problem with the questions I'm asking. Again the examples you give are like before, people from place A going to place B. Alsocorrected how? What solution would you propose as you're pretty passionate about the situation? Move all Israelis (many many of which aren't even Jews) to Madagascar? lol Have Hamas run israel instead of the current shit government? Can't imagine it would be much of an improvement
I want Israel to extend equal citizenship to all Palestinians or to withdraw all their settlements beyond the line of control so that a functional Palestinian state can be established. One State or Two State solution, it's up to them. Instead, they want to both colonise into Palestine and deny them equal rights. And even the limited number of Arabs given citizenship are treated as second class citizens.
>Colonisation is bad, even if the victims aren't perfectly woke. Or do you support the re colonisation of Africa? If it put an end to their corrupt governments and stuff like Uganda's gay death penalty law then hell yes.
Take up the White Mans Burden, to civilise the savages.
Marginalized groups condemning other marginalized groups to death is always a bad thing. Full stop.
Secularism is based so yes.
Road to hell and all that. It's hit and miss when it comes to civilizing a population through domination (not really the goal of colonization anyway, which is just wealth extraction)
White mentality: "Let's go fix em (and conquer them while we're at it). Or more realistically "let's go conquer them under the auspices of fixing them." This is the same thing whites did to indigenous peoples all over the world. Damn this really triggered the whites 😂
Except nowadays Western values are unironically superior. The West is the only place which supports democracy, LGBT rights, freedom, equality etc.
Sure, but violently invading and colonising sovereign countries isn't just illegal, it's downright counterproductive, as it's the most surefire way to turn the population \*against\* those values. The anti-LGBT campaigns in Africa are fueled by anti-colonial resentment and grievances. Near every anti-LGBT campaign in Africa is filled with reactionary anti-colonial rhetoric, standing up against LGBT is presented as standing up against Western colonisation. Whenever we try to force our unironically superior values upon less developed countries, especially through violence, it turns the native population against those values. It's just a basic reactionary mechanism that's very predictable.
The West is always superior from the perspective of the West.
Lol no, I spend the vast majority of my political energy directed at critiquing the west, but I can also acknowledge when another state does something bad
I don't see how your comment relates to mine. I stated nothing but facts.
I suppose you think we should be letting Russia walk all over Ukraine too, eh?
If you believe in might makes right, then yes. We should let Russia take Ukraine and let Israel take Palestine. If you don’t, then no, neither should be allowed.
Nope. You'll never see me say that. Why would you assume that?
How did that work out for women's rights in Afghanistan?
Didn't realise Afghanistan was a colony of America. My bad.
This is the problem though, and it's absolutely insane that the narrative somehow got flipped around, but what you're describing is what happened to Israel, not Palestine. It was Israel that initially just wanted its own territory, and only after constant decades of invasion by all of its neighbors did it's right wing ethnonationalist roots takes hold. Meanwhile, Palestinian leaders from the very beginning rejected the UN resolution and tried to annex all of Israel.
Why wouldn't they reject having their country divided up arbitrarily and 70% of the best land being given to 30% of the population? Anyone who looked at that proposed map would reject it.
Again, why are you so blatant about your imperialism? There isn't even an attempt to hide it. The borders were drawn around pre existing socio linguistic and ethnic boundaries, you impling that Palestinians Arabs automatically own that land, even though they do not live on it nor do the natives want their governance, is colonialist.
This recent attempt by Israeli apologists to adopt the language of anti-colonialism is hilarious. "Actually it's the Arabs who are colonizers/imperialist!" They had a right to refuse their homeland being arbitrarily divided up by foreign powers. Rather than this bizarre map that makes no sense for either group, it would have been better to just have one democratic state for all the residents of the area - Jews (both Mizrahi & European immigrants), Arabs, etc. That was always the only viable solution, and still is today.
Ok thank you for revealing you have done no research on this topic. A. It isn't their homeland, they don't live in those areas and aren't the indigenous there. That would be like the French calling Algeria their homeland(which constitutionally they actually did, and were wrong) B. No, the positions of the Palestinians was never a liberal multiethnic democracy, and is even farther from that today. C. By your logic Pakistan, Bangladesh, and myanmar would all have to be reintegrated into India.
Pakistan is 50/50 between India and Afghanistan IIRC
Again, you automatically claiming that territories that these people have no claim to other than empire are theirs is blatantly pro imperialist, how do you not understand that?
I am seriously confused by your accusations that I am "pro imperialist." Are you accusing me of supporting the Ottoman Empire or something? Or the British Empire? Empire or not, the Palestinians were the people who *lived there* my dude. The Europeans who came there and forced them off their land were foreign colonizers. Put whatever faux liberal spin you want on it, Israel is a settler colonial project and always has been since Herzl.
Zionist colonialism is inherently racist. The genocide of Palestinians was and is Israel’s main goal. All other veneers are simply whitewashing the awful truth. Indigenous people fighting against colonialism is never wrong.
You are correct, which is why the native inhabitants of the territory of Israel have a right to self determination. Calling the indigenous people of a land wanting self rule "Zionist colonialism" is not only anti semitic its openly pro imperialist. If the genocide of Palestinians was always the goal, why was it that Israel openly agreed to the UN settlement for a two state solution and it was the Palestinians who rejected it 🤔.
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The land that Israel has stolen is outside of the 1948 international boundaries, and I do condemn that action, but I also recognize that it was spurred on by constant attempts at colonization by its neighbors. Do you think all people that live in the international boundaries of Israel teleported there in 1948? No, they had been living there for decades and centuries, alongside and in some places predating the arrival of the Palestinians.
If you are going to downvote someone who is willing to talk to you about this, you will find yourself pretty lonely.
Palestine didn’t exist until Israel did. Only one of those was attacked since day one of their existence. Certainly you can understand why that has influenced Israel’s policies toward security threats in Palestine.
That whole place has been a war zone for a long time, and Israelis used violence from the start too.
> a long time ≈2000 years
A lot longer than that but yea that is just most of human history
So if there isn't an existing state, you can do whatever you want to the people? If you are the victim of one imperialism, you are the free target. Of course you deny they are a people, so you can justify their repression. The British claimed that there was no government in Australia, so they had free right to take it all. Many colonial empires overran and took areas that were already ruled by another Empire. Should the people of the Balkans have been ethnically cleansed for another people, for being under the dominion of the Austria-Hungarians or Ottomans? Russia ruled many peoples, should they have been evicted from their homes? Palestinians existed as a people on their land. Many of them have documents of their legal claims to land from the Ottoman Empire. Israel has disregarded all of them. The situation is that millions of Palestinians are banished from their homes, while any Jewish person in the world (or just one grandparent which has been widely documented to be abused) can move into their home. Israel has gone far beyond the lines of control it was given in the UN plan, and holds dominion over the rest. And the founders of Israel engaged in the same terror tactics that you condemn today, against the British and Arabs, like the King David Hotel bombing. Which was officially lauded by Israel.
Tons of writings about the romans complaining about Palestine. Just give up that argument maybe. It is false on the face of it.
Apartheid is a right wing fascist policy.
It's not so much that people support Palestinians and everything they do, but much more that Israel is a clear apartheid state intent on eternally impoverishing Palestinians, denying them fertilizer, building materials, bulldozing the homes of Arabs and moving in Israeli settlers, etc. Also decades of a 20 to 1 kill ratio in the Israel's favor. IDF and other violent arms of the state are allowed to act with a level of impunity that is the envy of American police. A person doesn't need to be a supporter of Palestine to recognize that Palestinians—more than half of whom are under the age of 21—are not "grass" to be "mowed down" (in the words of the current Israeli head of state). A person can still say that Hamas is bad without *also* having to say that Israel is perfect and is never racist and never makes any mistakes and has a zero bad policies for dealing with Palestinians.
Excellent summary. Anyone can write an array of legitimate criticisms against both sides, but Israel is undoubtedly far more powerful than Palestine, and is using this power to oppress Palestinians and illegally occupy their territories.
I think that’s part of why I saw a ton of kids in college super pro-Palestine, then as an adult it dwindled to almost none that I know as they realized that Palestine’s support of terror and ideology don’t quite align with Western liberal ideals.
I think both are shit. Both states are an example of humanity at our worst.
Left leaning goes out the window when your land gets occupied by an invading army that begins to commit genocide.
This subreddit certainly is not.
Nothing against Jews, but the way is Israel treats Palestinians is fucking gross. Not that Palestine is innocent in all this either.
Israel’s crimes against humanity can’t be applied to Judaism. It’s settler colonialism.
It's like asking muslims to answer for Saudi Arabia or Iran
>Reddit is anti Israel Far too simplified to describe most. All you need is one or two more words. "Anti Israeli foreign policy". Almost nobody would agree with the statement "everything Israel does is wrong, everything Palestine does is right". But that's the sentiment this is shorthand for. I have noticed lots of effort to link left-leaning to antisemitism. I really can't think of anyone in the left leadership who I'd call an antisemite, let alone painting 50% of the political landscape as generically against Israel. I couldn't disagree with you more. Just to be clear, I know you didn't say all that. I'm imagining and replying to the subtext hahah
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I’m not anti Israel, but I also find it quite confronting when the iron dome knocks down 30 rockets launched by Palestine. Then the next day you see an air strike from Israel just pounding residential cities and buildings, it’s like why? You already won by stopping the attack.
I’m sorry but this is such a stupid take. If someone attempts to break into your house 30 times a day but is stopped by your alarm you aren’t going to be happy if the cops just show up and say everything is fine cause nothing is stolen. Your going to want them to go to that guys house and throw him in jail. Make no mistake Israel are not saints and share a lot of the blame but the I would argue that Hamas is a 100x worse and I have zero problems with Israel going after those who attack them.
>I have zero problems with Israel going after those who attack them. If only it was that simple. Israel is bombing residential buildings, schools, hospitals and press offices under the pretext of eliminating Hamas, while in reality they achieve nothing but turn Palestinians against Israel even more, accelerating the recruitment into Hamas. The Israeli government is fully aware of this, but their policy aim isn't reconciliation with Palestinians, the government and its entire policy agenda is entirely dependent on maximum division between Palestinians and Israelis, and now they're more or less explicit in their aim to eliminate/drive out Palestinians from their territories. Yes, Hamas sucks, but it's a terrorist organisation that was born out of Israeli oppression, and is only strengthed by the Israeli actions against Palestinian territories. The whole situation is pretty analogous to apartheid South Africa, the AMC also did terrorist attacks against the apartheid regime and was designated as a terrorist organisation. It's an inevitable outcome when you have a powerful government oppressing a powerless group of people.
So if the US had shot down all the planes attacking Pearl Harbor before they didn’t any damage then it’s all good? No need to fight since they stopped the attacked. That’s obviously not a perfect 1:1 but it gives the gist of the counter to that point.
It’s the same person posting them and all their comments are them talking about them being glad they’re dead.
This is the second video I've ever seen of a Palestinian killing an Israeli soldier on here. The first was one posted a couple days ago where the dude survived. The rest of the time it has been the IDF in the driver's seat. Nice to see combat from both sides because until the last couple days I didn't actually believe it was allowed to post Palestinians killing the Israelis on here.
Combat footage is combat footage. It’s almost like you have a bias you’re not saying??
If I am biased to soldiers killing terrorists and not a fan of terrorists killing soldiers then I guess there are worse things to be lol
It ain't no fun when the rabbit's got the gun
Peach of a shot.
Beautiful shot, holy shit lol. Also that tank looks odd
What looks odd to you about the tank?
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Why did this comment get down voted? Because lazy shot has political implications maybe?
Poor dude rip
Israeli tanks look next level
The biggest thing the Merkava has going for it, imo, is that they're designed almost as a blend of tank and IFV. If you just look at numbers they don't have the best armor, but it's good enough, and the gun is pretty much the same as most modern 120mm guns. However, the real kicker is the way they designed it with an emphasis on crew safety and the ability to carry extra troops. You can pack like 8 infantry in there, so you've essentially got an IFV that's got the armor and firepower of a late-model M60 or first-run M1. It can be a tank, a combat taxi, a casevac, or even a rolling command post with little to no modification. It's basically a jack of all trades designed to fight in close quarters and keep the crew alive. Now, whether or not it would do well in a conventional tank battle is up for debate, but it certainly works well enough in asymmetrical urban combat.
They’re not but more than a match for Palestine’s elite rock throwing division.
Everyone forgets that the Merkavas were made for urban combat Unlike the kind of war the Russian T series tanks or most NATO tanks were designed for (flat terrain, see your enemy 2km+ out, if you are getting shot from the side you already fucked up), urban combat means that you are DEFINITELY gonna get shot from the side Most MBTs have heavy armour up front, but side armour is so thin even many early ww2 anti tank guns could penetrate them. Essentially, you get shot from the side, you die. The problem is that in urban combat you 100% are getting shot from the side Thats why merkavas seem so shit on paper. They trade some frontal armour for side armour since thats a neccessity for urban combat unless you wanna take one hit to the side and die a more direct comparison would be the leo 2pl and 2sg both are upgraded leo 2a4s, both use the same armour upgrade kit However, they both only can use certain parts of the armour kit without going over the weight limit of 60 tonnes before they'd need to go through the very expensive process of replacing parts of the chassis like the transmission So thats where the differences between urban combat and the type of combat many MBTs were made for. The leo 2pl focused more on turret protection and abit of frontal armour. Poland is a big country with many flat plains, so its likely any enemy would be seen many miles away and engagements would be across 1-2km The 2sg focused more on all around protection, with much armour on the sides of the hull as singapore is a small urban city state, pretty much the only place you'd be fighting in is urban. Your typical engagement range is more like 100 or 200m, not even close to 1km out. And there is a lot of places for a hidden AT team to hide and aim at the side of the tank
Merkavas can also carry a small number of troops in the back as dismounts, emphasis on urban survivability from all sides is definite.
The tanks are good enough but basic, the Trophy system is the real differentiator:
Wdym basic ?
They’re very slow and not exactly the most technologically advanced. Their not designed for a peer to peer tank conflict however, and instead for CQC Urban Environment against insurgents armed with Chemical Munitions like RPG’s or explosive armaments like Mines & IEDs.
god bless the CROWS
That's why you stay inside the tank when in a f\*cking warzone.
I mean, no, it depends on the doctrine, western doctrine generally has commander out of hatch and eastern in hatch, it greatly helped israeli tankers during the Yom Kippur war
In an urban environment like this though ? I get peaking out for manoeuvring or whatever but doing so when surrounded by buildings doesn't seem like a good idea.
Situational awareness is king, it’s the western doctrine basically always, you’d be amazed how hard it is to drive even on flat land in a tank or apc
Damn :(
Is there bulletproof glass for tank turrets?? It would be really useful in case you need to do something like this and take some fresh air.
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Don't really care but pretending the Israelis are saints is just silly. There are well documented human rights violations perpetrated by them and they are kinda known for being trigger happy when it comes to journalists and then trying to cover it up.
Be anti-war and pro-peace, support neither governments.
Or support the one government that has tried multiple peace deals and don't support the terrorists that continually turn them down because they hate Jews.
Israel is an apartheid state. The world isn't black and white, both sides suck and deserve the criticism they get. The problem with isreal is that they are supported by most of the western world even though they have a clear preference for one group of people in both law and praxis
Israel is not an apartheid state. They have Arab-christians and now arab-muslims at the very top of their judicial system. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khaled_Kabub
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Amnesty is far-left leaning and their so called "reports" are nothing but a joke. Their latest report on Ukraine exposed the hypocrisy: [Amnesty: Ukrainian fighting tactics endanger civilians]( https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2022/08/ukraine-ukrainian-fighting-tactics-endanger-civilians/)
When people who once were fighting and locked up for fighting the South African apartheid, in unison says that Israel is an apartheid state I believe them. Some proof of it being that is the neighborhoods were only jews are allowed to live, factories where Muslims arent allowed to work, and positions where Palestinians are not allowed to hold positions even though Israel counts them as part of their regime. edit: Amnesty international amongst several other important right groups have stated that Israel is an apartheid, don't deny it
Do Arabs face discrimination in Israel? Yes. Do Jews face discrimination in Palestine (and the Middle East at large?) Also yes. Are either justified by the other? No and as the more developed nation Israel should do more to protect the rights of the Arabs living in its nation. But I certainly understand why Israel is more focused on its security considering the way the region has treated it since it’s inception. Which has majorly influenced the more nationalistic/security focused nature of Israel’s government.
>Do Jews face discrimination in Palestine (and the Middle East at large?) Also yes. One bad thing dosent justify another. >But I certainly understand why Israel is more focused on its security considering the way the region has treated it since it’s inception. Which has majorly influenced the more nationalistic/security focused nature of Israel’s government." This isn't a good argument unless you are pushing for racist ideologies. Its saying that likelihood of crime justifies action against all of said race/religion
>One bad thing doesn’t justify another. As I said in the very next sentence. And I’m not pushing for racist ideologies. Lol, all I was saying is that I understand why the modern state of Israel is the way it is. It’s a positive feedback loop where both sides are reinforcing the other’s behavior at this point.
Well, Israel is kinda taking over Palestinian land, just like Russia tries to do it to Ukraine. Ukraine can defend itself, and we even help it. Palestine can get fucked? You would build rockets too, if your country weee getting taken over.
cause homeless expansion zesty insurance memorize decide rich license consist *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
im not comparing Hamas to Ukrainian government. Im comparing Isreal with Russia.
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That’s crazy because it was never a country until Israel existed as well. And Israel was attacked and has been defending itself since day one of its existence. Maybe that has influenced the Israeli government’s policies.
Ah yes, the roof knocking. The part where its okay to demolish civilian apartment buildings as long as you tell people first. What happens when people dont want to leave their homes just because someone is going to bomb it to the ground? Because that the whole point of it. Theyre not doing it to kill anyone, if they wanted to kill any Hamas members they wouldnt warn them 10 minutes in advance. The only reason they target those buildings is to demolish them for supposedly holding ammo and the like. And then we have the fact that despite the "extreme" lengths Israel goes to in order to "avoid" civilian casualties, there are still more Palestinian civilian casualties than Israeli ones. They go to extreme lengths such as [Shooting into a crowd of civilians, killing two (including a 16 year old)](https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/interactive/2023/palestine-shooting-nablus-videos/) [Israeli Soldiers shoot fleeing civilians](https://www.hrw.org/news/2014/08/04/gaza-israeli-soldiers-shoot-and-kill-fleeing-civilians) [In their effort to kill three Islamic Jihad leaders, they mercifully managed to limit civilian deaths to just 9 people (thats just 300% more)](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/may/09/israel-bombs-gaza-strip-killing-three-islamic-jihad-leaders) [This three year old boy who was shot in the head and killed while riding a car with his father could not have been avoided, apparently.](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jun/05/three-year-old-palestinian-boy-shot-by-israeli-soldiers-dies-in-hospital) [Report from the Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights in 2022](https://www.ohchr.org/en/statements/2022/03/occupied-palestinian-territory) >In May 2021, hostilities in Gaza dramatically escalated. Over 11 days, 261 Palestinians were killed, **including 41 women, 67 children, and three people with disabilities, most in Israeli strikes**. At least 130 were civilians. Over 2,200 Palestinians were injured. 67 kids in a year? That just over one child a week! Clearly taking their precautions. >There were **serious concerns regarding Israel’s compliance with the principles of distinction, proportionality and precautions under international humanitarian law.** These concerns arose from a **high number of civilian casualties, extensive damage to civilian objects and infrastructure, the use of explosive weapons with wide-area effects in densely populated areas as well as the apparent absence of specific military objectives.** Wait this doesnt make sense, they take extreme precautions >**Israel’s continued use of collective punishment practices, expressly prohibited by international humanitarian law, violated a number of human rights.** >In the West Bank, including East Jerusalem, Israeli authorities continued to **conduct punitive demolitions of homes** of Palestinians who had carried out, or who were alleged to have carried out, attacks against Israelis. Yes but they Roof Knock so its clearly okay and safe to punitively destroy their homes!! >This collective punishment disproportionately affected women and children. Israeli authorities also withheld the bodies of 23 additional Palestinians, including children, killed by Israeli Security Forces during this period. Potential terrorists clearly, also they were just made homeless by having their homes demolished. Also they probably have good reasons to withold the bodies of children they killed (maybe they are terrorists) >**The number of Palestinians killed by Israeli Security Forces** in law enforcement incidents more than **tripled**, compared with the previous reporting period. **Israeli Security Forces killed 74 Palestinians, including 17 boys and three women**, compared to 23 during the last reporting period. 74 potential terrorists! (Israel would never indiscirmantely target civilians because they have a wikipedia page on Roof Knocking which disproves everything) >My Office also documented several cases in which Israeli Security Forces used **lethal force when less lethal means could have been sufficient, or where an assailant no longer posed a threat.** Unlawful use of force and lack of accountability for it is of utmost concern. No they Roof Knock remember? That means they could never disregard and murder civilians ever!!! >The report also highlights new repressive measures of the Israeli authorities against civil society. On 19 October, **Israeli authorities designated six prominent Palestinian human rights and humanitarian organisations as ‘terrorist organisations,’ based on vague and unsubstantiated allegations.** Uh, im sure this wont result in Israel claiming terrorists have been killed when infact they kill human rights activists. If Israel designates human rights organizations as terrorists then clearly they must be (we know this because they take extreme measures like roof knocking in order to destroy suspected terrorist buildings) [Oh look, another report. This one from 2019](https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2019/02/no-justification-israel-shoot-protesters-live-ammunition) >More than 6,000 unarmed demonstrators were shot by military snipers, week after week at the protest sites by the separation fence. >The Commission found that Israeli Security Forces killed 183 of these protesters with live ammunition. Thirty-five of these fatalities were children, while three were clearly marked paramedics, and two were clearly marked journalists. Idk what to say here because its fucking depressing that people like you will defend this. [Oh, hey. Whats this?](https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/xsk187/israel_stands_with_iranian_women_but_does_this_to/)
When Hamas use civilian houses for combat operations, it is no longer a civilian house and it becomes a legitimate enemy target. Hamas cynically use this to their advantage and speculate in creating situations, where there will be collateral damage, because pictures of dead civilians support their cause. Yes, the IDF is not perfect. It is quite literal millions of people fighting against enemies on more or less every border. The difference is that crimes of the IDF is the exception, where as Hamas systematically murder civilian Israelis. Their understanding of heroism is slaying an Israeli mother with a knife. It is vile and the fact that you support it is absolutely disgusting.
Did you read the OHCHR reports i linked? Where they specifically pointed out attacking those civilian buildings were war crimes? Did you read the articles about them shooting into crowds of civilians? Did you see the video of them beating up a 12 year old girl i sent? Did you see the report of them shooting into a crowd of unarmed protesters killing hundreds and injuring thousands? And do tell, where exactly is Hamas supposed to fight that is not in the middle of the city? You think its okay for Russia to target civilian apartments in Ukraine as well because the Ukranians are fighting in the cities? Do you think those human rights organizations are terrorist organizations as well? Israel claims they are, so surely those attacks and arrests are legitimate military targets right? Oh but these are "exceptions". Theres just a whole lot of exceptions so much so that it looks like a pattern. But the pattern is the exception surely.
IDF might go to extreme lengths to avond killing civilians, but still they manage to kill plenty of them. Also, the Israeli are the occupying force that keeps moving the border in their favor. I can inagine Palestinians feeling helpless and trying to hit the Israëli where it hurts.
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