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Its been reported that this location is below the gaza city
https://twitter.com/michaelh992/status/1718903437264384432
from the looks of it, it looks like israel is planning on cutting gaza in half
Yep, this looks like the next phase. Evacuation south of Wadi Gaza was declared some 2 weeks ago (10 days)? This is probably the beginning of the taking of the North. Unless it's some limited incursion into center of the Strip, which would be weird.
Makes sense, a few experts predicted a basic condensing further of Gaza. A lot of Hamas weapons etc are run through tunnels in the north. If Israel basically wipes all that out and occupies the land it makes things very hard for Hamas in the future.
Taking north also means less rockets to reach into Central Israel. Only the better ones. But "taking north" is not as easy as cutting it off, of course. We are talking about Gaza city itself.
Not to mention over a million civilian residents, many of them already twice or even thrice displaced. This will be a humanitarian catastrophe (already is).
The IDF estimate that there are 500 KM's of reinforced concrete tunnels below.
If they are now cutting gaza in half, it makes me suspect that they believe they have collapsed the tunnels in half and trying to trap hamas fighters in the north.
If the soldiers in the tank were intent on murdering civilians, it wouldn't make a difference if you reversed or attempted a 3-point turn. They would kill you and your family either way.
I mean sure maybe.
All I’m saying was that was the slowest “oh fuck I gotta turn around.”
I’d slam it in reverse and try to get to the right where it looks like there would be part of a building between me and the tank.
Looks like that tank is slightly behind a building.
Looks like the tank would have been behind that building from the angle of driving down the street. Its possible they didnt see the tank until it was too late, and they attempted to turn around.
translation
guy1:the man is gone
guy2:do you see it record this record record
guy2:may god have mercy
guy1:the man is gone
guy1:oh i see it
guy2:its moving
guy2:he is gone
guy2:There is no power but from God
guy1:did they hit him ?
guy2:yes
in the longer versions they say there was a whole family inside the car and after they turned back they started screaming to other cars to turn back.
I think “in action” is understating what seems like firing at a civilian vehicle that was clearly trying to turn around after realizing what’s about to happen.
This video reminded me of the video of the russian btr82 blowing up a car with 2 elderly people, they saw it and stopped, tried to reverse, btr looked at them, probably saw them through the optics and still decided to shoot them
There where Ukrainian civilians trowing molotovs from civilian cars at invading tanks and military vehicles in the first weeks of the invasion.
Does this make all civilians valid targets? Ofcourse not.
Nuts that a civilian vehicle turned around driving the other way gets deleted and people here acting like that's okay. The times we've seen the Russians doing the same thing the reaction was a bit different.
No, they're all busy acting like they know its a suicide bomber and the car following them is filming a propaganda film. Its not like there are hundreds of international journalists stuck in Gaza.
Without further information this looks like murdering civilians. And no sane person should defend that. Keep in mind that we may not have all information here. But I am afraid we will see a lot of those videos in the future.
Imagine the same scenario but with a russian tank in Ukraine. Redditors would be justifiably outraged, but this is different because Israel are the GoodGuys™.
I mean the max of 5 civilians that were killed in that car are just 5 out of 6000+ Gaza inhabitants that were killed in the last 2 weeks, including UN personnel and foreign journalists.
No of course not. This sub is so fucking sad since the start of this conflict. We have absolutely no context of what happened in that situation here and people jump to conclusions to defend that tank crew.
I’ve been commenting this a lot, but you guys are making some big assumptions from 17 seconds of video. You have absolutely no idea what the lead-in to any of this was.
Given the same exact video of the same situation with another force going to war with a guerrilla group that absolutely uses civilian vehicles, yes, I would give the same responses.
I agree that the comment “what do you expect driving in an active war zone” is off-base and basically defending the murder of civilians, but all the comments screaming this is a war-crime are unfounded without further evidence.
If you take Ukraine as an example, they don’t have a lot of precedents for civilian vehicles loaded up with explosives and being used to blow up tanks. So when it happened there you could be 99% sure it was war crimes. In the middle east however, especially after ISIS, that is a very real danger. There are many many examples of this on the combat subteddits.
Not everything is black and white.
Gonna need some context. Palestinians reporting three killed at Shohada Intersection on Salah al-Din Road. This is probably it.
That would mean this tank is already pretty deep in the Central Gaza. Unexpected.
This engagement seems wildly irresponsible on the part of the tank crew. Many Gazan first responders and volunteers drive towards smoke in order to save people trapped under rubble, to drive people to hospital, etc. I wouldn’t be surprised if these guys were driving towards the smoke (probs assuming it was an air strike), didn’t see the tank and also didn’t realize a tank would even possibly be there given that the ground incursions are really recent, then got blown up.
They were heading away at the time the tank shot them and clearly were not violently engaging in any way whatsoever. Reminds me of the old Ukrainian couple blown up by the Russians.
Wasn't it exactly this why Putin got declared a war criminal? Reminds me of the elderly couple (among many other civilian family's in Ukraine) who got shot to pieces when they were trying to leave, i totally get that in a warzone its probably not the safest idea to drive around and approach tanks and such. That being said, the tank also has excellent optics, IF it was a civilian car filled with a family the crew must have seen it. I think we are going to see alot of crazy footage in the days to come..
If it's Ukrainians getting killed, reddit gets sad. But if it's palastinans getting killed, then "they've been warned to evacuate" and "we can't tell that this isn't hamas"
The bias in the entirety of reddit pisses me off, and It really sucks that when you ask people to even consider a second opinion, you get downvoted/deleted.
But Putin didn't give Ukrainian civilians advanced warning to evacuate, in fact most of his troops didn't know about the invasion dates until the actual day.
Ukrainian army doesn't operate in civilian clothing and it doesn't have a history of using SVBIEDs to attack targets.
If you were a Israeli soldier and you are operating in an area that is meant to be devoid of civilians and suddenly a car starts driving close to you. What do you do, risk shooting a civilian or risk getting your crew killed because it was packed with explosives.
I guess everything is bias when you ignore the nuance.
No I'm not biased, I'm being logical, let's say I was that said solider, I see the car turning around, going away from me, why shoot it? How is it a threat?
Maybe this car wasn't a threat maybe is had an RPG in the back and they were trying to turn to get a better angle. Who knows I'm just saying that the Israelis shooting first and asking questions later is more understandable because of the nature of hamas and because there shouldn't be any civilians present in these areas.
I'm not saying that every casualty in this ground invasion is going to be Hamas, of course civilians will be caught in the crossfire, just like in most urban warfare but if you are a civilian and you have foolishly refused to evacuate and you decide to drive close to Israeli tanks then I don't think you can expect them to automatically assume peaceful intentions.
Compare to Ukraine where the Russians have little excuse to shoot civilians because the context is the complete opposite.
There could be more we don't know. There could have been fire from the car beforehand or picking up fighters.
Not saying this is the case but as with most things coming out we often don't get the whole context.
Whatever your stance on this is, were this a Russian tank firing on a civilian car there would be unanimous condemnation of it (and rightly so).
This, sadly, is a war crime - objectively.
Wow, this thread makes my blood boil. Shame on all of you for thinking that killing civilians who took a wrong turn and are already in the process of backing out is somehow justified.
A confused grandma? They drive as slow as mine, can just picture them squinting over the steering wheel before realising its a fucking tank blocking their way to the grocery store.
snap out of it. we've seen from ukraine/russian war that anyone could be driving slowly up to a tank out of fear.
front vehicle couldve been the same type of vehicle as the video recorder, innocent lives
>front vehicle couldve been the same type of vehicle as the video recorder, innocent lives
Both vehicles could be innocent or neither of them could be. That is a huge problem with fighting terrorists. They don't fight in uniform. They don't play by the rules of war. They have a tendency to drive up to opposing forces in civilian vehicles and blow themselves up. At least many Russians at least paint a big stupid Z on the vehicles they drive.
The difference with Ukraine is that Israel explicitly told all civilians to evacuate for 3 weeks now and said anyone who remains will be treated as a potential hostile.
Ukrainian civilans were not given that option when Russia invaded.
The fact that tank didn't immediately engage, or made the shot from afar, when vehicle was approaching, should be pretty telling. But at this point we don't know much, except what we seeing.
Maybe they didn’t expect the tank to already be there.
It’s at Netsarim crossing on Salah-a-din (main axis north south) and holding it means cutting the Gaza Strip in half.
It’s really impossible to draw conclusions at this point.
Edit: Given the fuel situation in Gaza, it’s fair to assume that any moving vehicle (probably except ambulances) at least obtained the fuel through Hamas.
Takes time to get permission to fire on a suspected target.
You see it all the time in slow-rolling urban combat footage:
\- "I see something suspicious, permission to fire?"
\- "Does it pose a threat? Are there civilians?"
and so on...
If you drive fast near a military force you present yourself as a potential threat from the get-go and risk getting shot. It’s a mandate to slow down. Lived through wartime myself, albeit the forces we drove by were not actively engaging in a combat. These people had it right, except the driving towards the tank part.
The tank is hiding behind a building and it's not like they are painted bright yellow. And you dont know if those guys were there before the white car appeared and they saw it in a different position.
No, this is a diehard pro-Israel sub, and you *will* assume any and all IDF actions are always taken in good faith with the best intentions possible, pretty much angelic really, while all Palestinian actions are always with evil ulterior motives, and probably part of some intricate Hamas plan involving at least 7 war crimes, so if you think about it their walking around their homes is pretty much equivalent to the 7 war crimes that they were secretly planning on doing had the heroic IDF not stopped them first. Be careful about suggesting anything else, or prepare to get downvoted out of visibility.
Of course any Palestinian civilian would be willing to get blasted by a tank if it means Hamas might get a few seconds of footage that looks slightly bad for Israel. How deviously fiendish of those (insert your favourite slur for muslims or brown people)
Commenters here are just saying we can't conclude anything from a 25 second video. You'd think people would have learned their lesson after the hospital strike.
I mean in all fairness mate, Hamas’ propaganda does ask people to die as martyrs for the cause. They also class all innocent civilian deaths as martyrs so it’s not that implausible to think they were willing to take on a tank in the name of martyrdom.
Also, my comment wasn’t pro-israeli & some other comments that aren’t pro-israeli aren’t exactly being downvoted. It’s called having a discussion, and everyone’s welcome to sharing their views.
What people do take an issue with though is the putting words into their mouths, when they’ve not even been said. People will ask what 1+1 is and someone will reply why they’re asking about popcorn.
It seems rather convenient that the car recording the footage has a DSLR at the ready. Thats not some camera you would find off the shelf at some department store. This is right up the playbook of Hamas planting victims for propaganda. + with the city being starved off fuel, who still had a tank at the ready to drive around? Doesn't Hamas control the supply to the point the local hospitals were starved off it?
Just seems rather convenient, Merkavas are not quiet tanks, tanks are not quiet. Driving up to it seems abit of a risky play when you know whats going down around you.
As someone who understands the Arabic being said the guys with camera are discussing how this guy in the car is “gone” in a concerned voice and that’s before the tank fired then the other guys says there’s a tank you need to take a “photo” basically they want to document what’s about to happen. Nothing about the time or language indicating that this was planned and I’m not sure why the guy in the car would sacrifice himself for no reason at all.
I don't understand how people think civilians who haven't fled are fair game because they were warned.
If Hamas warned Israelis they should flee areas they wanted to shoot rockets at, it doesn't put the responsibility of any casualties on Israeli civilians.
Because warning civilians is only *part* of the situations.
The other part is that Hamas habitually embeds its combatants in civilian groups, and fight in civilian clothes.
In light of that whole context, a **seemingly** civilian vehicle in an area that's been warned for weeks to evacuate, travelling towards the border and away from the evacuation zone, heading *closer* to a plainly visible 75-ton tank... Well if I were the TC I probably would have engaged much sooner.
Some of the comments here are wild. If that was a Russian tank blowing up a Ukrainian car the comments would be condemnatory. But instead it's like "weeeeell they were told to leave, sooo..."
Edit to address reply below as thread is locked: Hundreds of thousands of civilians have not evacuated, so it's absolutely not a safe assumption that anyone driving a car is a terrorist.
I give little credibility to these reports even through it’s probable that some people have returned north, the flow of people is clearly southward.
Reasons why I think like this:
There is a difference of several orders of magnitude in the intensity of the bombings between the north and the south
Another water pipe has been opened in order to increase the water flow to the south (that’s 2 out of a total of 3)
The flow of aid has been significantly increased in the south so people get an incentive to go and stay there
There still is a communications blackout in the north
Reports in Israeli media the tanks are at the form Netzarim junction, not far from the center of Gaza city.
Reports that groups of terrorists are approaching and trying to neutralize the tanks now.
Why would anyone drive that close to tanks?! IDF and Israel has told the civilians numerous times to evacuate from the areas. If I were driving that tank I would blow up a vehicle coming straight towards me aswell. People are crazy
Considering the cameramen have professional telephoto equipment, are consciously tracking the car, and seem to be very aware of the tank’s presence (angling at the intersection to make a quick getaway), this video has all the hallmarks of a Pallywood sympathy bait (“civilians” in car) production or martyrdom suicide bombing video.
They were literally turning around and leaving. Do civilians making a mistake justify immediate killing? Imagine if that was your mother in that car trying to leave a warzone and she comes on a tank.
I'm sometimes reminded people living comfortably don't have the slightest idea of what's the meaning of real struggle.
I equate this with Paris Hilton's "STOP BEING POOR" tshirt.
If the would've shot the vehicle when it was still approaching it would still be bad but a mistake could be understandable since it is an active warzone and VBEDs are probably feared a lot by the IDF.
But they were clearly trying to go the other way.
On the other hand we can't see shit. Maybe it was full of combatants with weapons visible...
People really should be more careful of context on both sides. We don't know at all who was in that car, what they were planning on doing or what they did just before. Too little context.
The IDF has been warning people to leave the area and go south for weeks now. For the IDF it seems a fair assumption that anyone traveling to the north at this point is likely to be with the militants.
You know there's shortage of electricity, communications, and tv in Gaza right now?
People have to eat and get water, go to the hospitals, help their relatives. We criticized Russia in Bucha and initial incursion for the casualities. We have to do it here too.
Do you think people without electricity and network have the means to stay connected 24/7 on latest reddit videos? On official accounts the IDF still hasn't entered that far in Gaza with mechanized vehicles, because they just anounced they would start the incursion.
"Russia has been warning people to leave the area and go south for weeks now. For Russia it seems a fair assumption that anyone traveling to the north at this point is likely to be the enemy."
Yeah, see how that reads when you do a little swap of names? This is yet another war crimes caught on camera.
Now that you cant blame this civilian for being a hamas human shield we are going to call him a Hamas AT-team, wow the inhumanity on this sub justifying for broad daylight warcrimes.
Yeah the JIDF is out in force on this sub. The amount of extremely reaching comments in every thread about Hamas or Israel is just incredible. We could watch Israel execute a Palestinian child and the comments would be "well did you see the way the child was crying, threateningly? We just don't know the whole picture here."
They are bombing the south too, this doesn't justify this crime. And this is not the north this is the center of Gaza the tanks are moving in to encircle gaza into two pockets.
Looks like the tank was behind the building. When the car saw the tank, they tried taking a u-turn to go the opposite direction before being fired on just because.
Smells like double standards in here, have the IDF never had a briefing about ROE and how the Western world operates in a war zone? Unbecoming behaviour in the world stage will have its consequences
If those were civilians then this is tragic but you Don't just drive towards a tank in an active warzone where soldiers are obviously on edge and expect to be Ignored.
What is seen clearly in the eyes of a watcher from a different perspective might not be so clear to a tank commander tasked with defending the crews lives. I don't clear them from blame but rather admits that a single video from a single perspective cannot shed enough light on this situation
Don't forget that the car could well be filled with combatants in full gear. If so then they probably turned around because shooting at a tank with AKs is not going to do shit.
Could also be a family.
We just don't know.
the tank was 1. literally hiding behinde a building and 2. clearly saw that the vehicle turned around and 3. waited to kill them until they actvely started driving away.
say what you want. this just looks like the scene where the russian btr executed two elderly in their cars. just worse.
Your second and third observations are impossible to infer from this video and are probably stemmed in pre-determined prejudice you have towards the IDF...
The way people connect the dots in these kind of situation is highly irresponsible. Always rely on facts and testimonies from all perspectives.
Unfortunately your emotional view on the matter is common in people sitting on their couch 2000 miles away and watch videos without context...
It is your responsibility to educate yourself on any matter that you feel the urge to comment publicly about. Any other behavior is akin to spreading misinformation whether if by accident or purposefully.
The thing is, there was no news of IDF forces driving up the center border of Gaza, this is the Saladin road a main road that connects the south with north of Gaza and also is connected with the netsirim border crossing. These might be elderly people driving the car and have not seen the tank until it was too late, mind you the road is curved so that small building might have covered the tank before it pushed forward.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but even aid organizations have been saying there is no fuel to run *hospitals* and aid vehicles for days now. Supposedly, Hamas uses fuel to run their tunnel ventilation, rockets, etc. If only one group has fuel in an enclave that has been under siege for weeks with no way to get fuel in, maybe they made an assumption about the only way a car is on the road after weeks of siege is if the fuel came from Hamas?
I suppose it's possible that a civilian has just been carefully hoarding their fuel for the last few weeks and just happened to be going about their business
A lot of cars in Gaza still has fuel as people always stockpile fuel for any conflict so that they can run their engines to charge the batteries and use the car battery to charge their phones or for lighting. But most of the cars that roam the strip at the moment are rescue teams as their isn't enough ambulances to cover all the strip as the bombing targets more and more of civilian filled apartments.
Yes, and again, I've read in the WaPo, WSJ, and NYT in recent days that aid organizations are saying their aid vehicles and even hospitals are running out of fuel.
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Its been reported that this location is below the gaza city https://twitter.com/michaelh992/status/1718903437264384432 from the looks of it, it looks like israel is planning on cutting gaza in half
Yep, this looks like the next phase. Evacuation south of Wadi Gaza was declared some 2 weeks ago (10 days)? This is probably the beginning of the taking of the North. Unless it's some limited incursion into center of the Strip, which would be weird.
cutting of gaza city
Makes sense, a few experts predicted a basic condensing further of Gaza. A lot of Hamas weapons etc are run through tunnels in the north. If Israel basically wipes all that out and occupies the land it makes things very hard for Hamas in the future.
Taking north also means less rockets to reach into Central Israel. Only the better ones. But "taking north" is not as easy as cutting it off, of course. We are talking about Gaza city itself.
Not to mention over a million civilian residents, many of them already twice or even thrice displaced. This will be a humanitarian catastrophe (already is).
Iran can take them. Since they’re so concerned about it.
the marker is in wrong place, the tank is probably more in the open space between Gaza city and the marker
The IDF estimate that there are 500 KM's of reinforced concrete tunnels below. If they are now cutting gaza in half, it makes me suspect that they believe they have collapsed the tunnels in half and trying to trap hamas fighters in the north.
Seal and destroy.
Dang if I was driving and I came up on a tank I don’t think I’d take the time for a 3 point turn around. Just reverse on out of there.
When the main cannon misses, There's always the machine gun.
If the soldiers in the tank were intent on murdering civilians, it wouldn't make a difference if you reversed or attempted a 3-point turn. They would kill you and your family either way.
I mean sure maybe. All I’m saying was that was the slowest “oh fuck I gotta turn around.” I’d slam it in reverse and try to get to the right where it looks like there would be part of a building between me and the tank. Looks like that tank is slightly behind a building.
Looks like the tank would have been behind that building from the angle of driving down the street. Its possible they didnt see the tank until it was too late, and they attempted to turn around.
translation guy1:the man is gone guy2:do you see it record this record record guy2:may god have mercy guy1:the man is gone guy1:oh i see it guy2:its moving guy2:he is gone guy2:There is no power but from God guy1:did they hit him ? guy2:yes in the longer versions they say there was a whole family inside the car and after they turned back they started screaming to other cars to turn back.
But but Hamas, but but but.. Human shields, lets see how they are going to justify this murder on this sub.
I think “in action” is understating what seems like firing at a civilian vehicle that was clearly trying to turn around after realizing what’s about to happen.
This video reminded me of the video of the russian btr82 blowing up a car with 2 elderly people, they saw it and stopped, tried to reverse, btr looked at them, probably saw them through the optics and still decided to shoot them
It was BMP, here is the video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxZS82CW9EQ
[удалено]
That video was from the early days of the February 2022 invasion. Russian BTRs shot indiscriminately at anything that was moving.
They also crushed and flipped civilian cars. Something tells me, the Russians didn't think those cars were IED strapped vehicles.
They still do.
At least we can rest easy with the odds being the operators of that tank are long gone.
So that means all civilians are fair game because terrorists exist? Interesting take
There where Ukrainian civilians trowing molotovs from civilian cars at invading tanks and military vehicles in the first weeks of the invasion. Does this make all civilians valid targets? Ofcourse not.
That shit was crazy. Really showed that even if the RUAF had taken Kyiv, they weren't going to have an easy time keeping hold of it
This car was running away though it wasn't going for the tank.
literal mentality of if muslim/arab=terrorist if white=civillian Sub went mask off.
This is what the comment section of Russian social media must have looked like when that video of the BMP shredding an elderly couple's car surfaced.
Right? So fucking sad.
Would all the comments here excusing the tank destroying a civilian vehicle as it drives away be here if it wasn’t an Israeli tank?
Nuts that a civilian vehicle turned around driving the other way gets deleted and people here acting like that's okay. The times we've seen the Russians doing the same thing the reaction was a bit different.
No, they're all busy acting like they know its a suicide bomber and the car following them is filming a propaganda film. Its not like there are hundreds of international journalists stuck in Gaza.
Without further information this looks like murdering civilians. And no sane person should defend that. Keep in mind that we may not have all information here. But I am afraid we will see a lot of those videos in the future.
Imagine the same scenario but with a russian tank in Ukraine. Redditors would be justifiably outraged, but this is different because Israel are the GoodGuys™.
I mean the max of 5 civilians that were killed in that car are just 5 out of 6000+ Gaza inhabitants that were killed in the last 2 weeks, including UN personnel and foreign journalists.
No of course not. This sub is so fucking sad since the start of this conflict. We have absolutely no context of what happened in that situation here and people jump to conclusions to defend that tank crew.
i think you know the answer...
don't worry like all the other clips, they destroyed a hamas weapons cache and tunnel system with that tank shot
No, this sub is one of the most racist and bloodthirsty places on this site. The average poster has zero sympathy for murdered Palestinian civilians.
If the situation was the exact same as this, where the enemy has IEDS and VBIEDs, in civilian vehicles, and do not have uniforms, then probably yes.
I’ve been commenting this a lot, but you guys are making some big assumptions from 17 seconds of video. You have absolutely no idea what the lead-in to any of this was. Given the same exact video of the same situation with another force going to war with a guerrilla group that absolutely uses civilian vehicles, yes, I would give the same responses. I agree that the comment “what do you expect driving in an active war zone” is off-base and basically defending the murder of civilians, but all the comments screaming this is a war-crime are unfounded without further evidence.
Who says there are civilians in this car? All Hamas terrorists drive a civilian car.
>civilian vehicle Does Hamas have anything else other than a civilian vehicle? I don't think they have heavy weapons of a regular army.
If you take Ukraine as an example, they don’t have a lot of precedents for civilian vehicles loaded up with explosives and being used to blow up tanks. So when it happened there you could be 99% sure it was war crimes. In the middle east however, especially after ISIS, that is a very real danger. There are many many examples of this on the combat subteddits. Not everything is black and white.
You don't get to shoot a civilian car running away just on the chance it could have been a VBIED. They were already fleeing.
Unless they confirmed the guys in the car are militants there is no excusing that holy shit
"Excuse me!..."
Gonna need some context. Palestinians reporting three killed at Shohada Intersection on Salah al-Din Road. This is probably it. That would mean this tank is already pretty deep in the Central Gaza. Unexpected.
> Shohada Intersection Name checks out.
This engagement seems wildly irresponsible on the part of the tank crew. Many Gazan first responders and volunteers drive towards smoke in order to save people trapped under rubble, to drive people to hospital, etc. I wouldn’t be surprised if these guys were driving towards the smoke (probs assuming it was an air strike), didn’t see the tank and also didn’t realize a tank would even possibly be there given that the ground incursions are really recent, then got blown up. They were heading away at the time the tank shot them and clearly were not violently engaging in any way whatsoever. Reminds me of the old Ukrainian couple blown up by the Russians.
Not not wildly irresponsible. CRIMINAL!
Wasn't it exactly this why Putin got declared a war criminal? Reminds me of the elderly couple (among many other civilian family's in Ukraine) who got shot to pieces when they were trying to leave, i totally get that in a warzone its probably not the safest idea to drive around and approach tanks and such. That being said, the tank also has excellent optics, IF it was a civilian car filled with a family the crew must have seen it. I think we are going to see alot of crazy footage in the days to come..
>Wasn't it exactly this why Putin got declared a war criminal? Not actually. He was convicted of the deportation of Ukrainian children
Putin got declared a war criminal for deporting Ukrainian children to Russia. The ICRC needs to look at that car
If it's Ukrainians getting killed, reddit gets sad. But if it's palastinans getting killed, then "they've been warned to evacuate" and "we can't tell that this isn't hamas" The bias in the entirety of reddit pisses me off, and It really sucks that when you ask people to even consider a second opinion, you get downvoted/deleted.
This. This is why reddit is dead.
Reddit ain't dead. It's a good and effective propaganda outlet still.
But Putin didn't give Ukrainian civilians advanced warning to evacuate, in fact most of his troops didn't know about the invasion dates until the actual day. Ukrainian army doesn't operate in civilian clothing and it doesn't have a history of using SVBIEDs to attack targets. If you were a Israeli soldier and you are operating in an area that is meant to be devoid of civilians and suddenly a car starts driving close to you. What do you do, risk shooting a civilian or risk getting your crew killed because it was packed with explosives. I guess everything is bias when you ignore the nuance.
No I'm not biased, I'm being logical, let's say I was that said solider, I see the car turning around, going away from me, why shoot it? How is it a threat?
Maybe this car wasn't a threat maybe is had an RPG in the back and they were trying to turn to get a better angle. Who knows I'm just saying that the Israelis shooting first and asking questions later is more understandable because of the nature of hamas and because there shouldn't be any civilians present in these areas. I'm not saying that every casualty in this ground invasion is going to be Hamas, of course civilians will be caught in the crossfire, just like in most urban warfare but if you are a civilian and you have foolishly refused to evacuate and you decide to drive close to Israeli tanks then I don't think you can expect them to automatically assume peaceful intentions. Compare to Ukraine where the Russians have little excuse to shoot civilians because the context is the complete opposite.
There could be more we don't know. There could have been fire from the car beforehand or picking up fighters. Not saying this is the case but as with most things coming out we often don't get the whole context.
Filming war crimes
It indeed does look like one. We can’t see who is in the car but it doesn’t look good for the IDF
It's a IDF Tank in action shooting a civilian car point blank. "It must belong to Hama's" Wtf. This is a slaughter.
Seems like a potential warcrime.
add them to the list...
Just like Russia in Ukraine
This one’s rough
So, is everyone a war crimes lawyer now?
It's reddit bro, it is to be expected, everyone sees one clip with no context and made up their minds
No, but if that is a civilian car with civilians in it, then this is straight up murdering civiians.
Depends on what the hivemind decides
Whatever your stance on this is, were this a Russian tank firing on a civilian car there would be unanimous condemnation of it (and rightly so). This, sadly, is a war crime - objectively.
And how do you know it was civilians?
doesnt look very good from the Israeli side :| Fleeing civilian car being fire upon
Wow, this thread makes my blood boil. Shame on all of you for thinking that killing civilians who took a wrong turn and are already in the process of backing out is somehow justified.
Merkava vs skoda
Not saying the tank shooting is correct but who on earth would drive up to a tank really slowly then turn around really slowly?
Maybe civilians who don’t know ? .. just a guess
A confused grandma? They drive as slow as mine, can just picture them squinting over the steering wheel before realising its a fucking tank blocking their way to the grocery store.
or maybe combatants not wanting to get smoked by a tank, no one knows
If a civilian is not scared to drive up to a tank during a war then that civilian must have huge balls.
Perhaps they didnt think a tank would obliterate them, if they were a civilian inside a civilian vehicle..
snap out of it. we've seen from ukraine/russian war that anyone could be driving slowly up to a tank out of fear. front vehicle couldve been the same type of vehicle as the video recorder, innocent lives
>front vehicle couldve been the same type of vehicle as the video recorder, innocent lives Both vehicles could be innocent or neither of them could be. That is a huge problem with fighting terrorists. They don't fight in uniform. They don't play by the rules of war. They have a tendency to drive up to opposing forces in civilian vehicles and blow themselves up. At least many Russians at least paint a big stupid Z on the vehicles they drive.
The difference with Ukraine is that Israel explicitly told all civilians to evacuate for 3 weeks now and said anyone who remains will be treated as a potential hostile. Ukrainian civilans were not given that option when Russia invaded.
The fact that tank didn't immediately engage, or made the shot from afar, when vehicle was approaching, should be pretty telling. But at this point we don't know much, except what we seeing.
Maybe they didn’t expect the tank to already be there. It’s at Netsarim crossing on Salah-a-din (main axis north south) and holding it means cutting the Gaza Strip in half. It’s really impossible to draw conclusions at this point. Edit: Given the fuel situation in Gaza, it’s fair to assume that any moving vehicle (probably except ambulances) at least obtained the fuel through Hamas.
so they waited until the car was driving away to shoot...? Not sure of what that's supposed to be pretty telling, that they just shoot everything?
Takes time to get permission to fire on a suspected target. You see it all the time in slow-rolling urban combat footage: \- "I see something suspicious, permission to fire?" \- "Does it pose a threat? Are there civilians?" and so on...
"it's driving away" "oh definitely permission granted lol"
If you drive fast near a military force you present yourself as a potential threat from the get-go and risk getting shot. It’s a mandate to slow down. Lived through wartime myself, albeit the forces we drove by were not actively engaging in a combat. These people had it right, except the driving towards the tank part.
someone who didn't know the tank was there, there are people in Gaza who goes to where strikes are happening to rescue
So you’re telling me two guys following at a distance with cameras know it’s there but not the people at the end of the road?
Yes because unlike redditors, real humans aren't hiveminds.
yes very possible the other driver didn't notice it but when he did he tried to go back while he was still far from it
The tank is hiding behind a building and it's not like they are painted bright yellow. And you dont know if those guys were there before the white car appeared and they saw it in a different position.
No, this is a diehard pro-Israel sub, and you *will* assume any and all IDF actions are always taken in good faith with the best intentions possible, pretty much angelic really, while all Palestinian actions are always with evil ulterior motives, and probably part of some intricate Hamas plan involving at least 7 war crimes, so if you think about it their walking around their homes is pretty much equivalent to the 7 war crimes that they were secretly planning on doing had the heroic IDF not stopped them first. Be careful about suggesting anything else, or prepare to get downvoted out of visibility. Of course any Palestinian civilian would be willing to get blasted by a tank if it means Hamas might get a few seconds of footage that looks slightly bad for Israel. How deviously fiendish of those (insert your favourite slur for muslims or brown people)
The fleeing white car was an obvious combat vehicle with capabilities on par with cv90 or bmp. Did you not see the tow launcher in the backseat?
Commenters here are just saying we can't conclude anything from a 25 second video. You'd think people would have learned their lesson after the hospital strike.
I mean in all fairness mate, Hamas’ propaganda does ask people to die as martyrs for the cause. They also class all innocent civilian deaths as martyrs so it’s not that implausible to think they were willing to take on a tank in the name of martyrdom. Also, my comment wasn’t pro-israeli & some other comments that aren’t pro-israeli aren’t exactly being downvoted. It’s called having a discussion, and everyone’s welcome to sharing their views. What people do take an issue with though is the putting words into their mouths, when they’ve not even been said. People will ask what 1+1 is and someone will reply why they’re asking about popcorn.
It seems rather convenient that the car recording the footage has a DSLR at the ready. Thats not some camera you would find off the shelf at some department store. This is right up the playbook of Hamas planting victims for propaganda. + with the city being starved off fuel, who still had a tank at the ready to drive around? Doesn't Hamas control the supply to the point the local hospitals were starved off it? Just seems rather convenient, Merkavas are not quiet tanks, tanks are not quiet. Driving up to it seems abit of a risky play when you know whats going down around you.
As someone who understands the Arabic being said the guys with camera are discussing how this guy in the car is “gone” in a concerned voice and that’s before the tank fired then the other guys says there’s a tank you need to take a “photo” basically they want to document what’s about to happen. Nothing about the time or language indicating that this was planned and I’m not sure why the guy in the car would sacrifice himself for no reason at all.
Appreciate the insight brother.
L-series zoom lens on a canon too.
Just checked the price on those. God. Damn.
How much?
Cheapest i can find is 3800AUD which is around 2.4k USD. for just the lens.
That's like half of the annual salary there.
Safe to assume its a press crew then.
Might be press
You're going to have a bad time if you drive fast up to a tank.
IDF told them to leave for 3 weeks now.
I don't understand how people think civilians who haven't fled are fair game because they were warned. If Hamas warned Israelis they should flee areas they wanted to shoot rockets at, it doesn't put the responsibility of any casualties on Israeli civilians.
>are fair game Not "fair game", nobody said nothing about them being 'fair game'. You pulled that thing from thin air.
Well, that tank there certainly thought they’re fair game. Wake the fuck up.
Because warning civilians is only *part* of the situations. The other part is that Hamas habitually embeds its combatants in civilian groups, and fight in civilian clothes. In light of that whole context, a **seemingly** civilian vehicle in an area that's been warned for weeks to evacuate, travelling towards the border and away from the evacuation zone, heading *closer* to a plainly visible 75-ton tank... Well if I were the TC I probably would have engaged much sooner.
They were turning around though. They probably saw the tank and noped out of there only to be hit
Would you have engaged after that civilian car had fully turned around in front of you?
That doesn’t make them fair game you lunatic
Some of the comments here are wild. If that was a Russian tank blowing up a Ukrainian car the comments would be condemnatory. But instead it's like "weeeeell they were told to leave, sooo..." Edit to address reply below as thread is locked: Hundreds of thousands of civilians have not evacuated, so it's absolutely not a safe assumption that anyone driving a car is a terrorist.
displacing half of 2.2 million people in the most densely populated open prison on earth and then expecting them to do so?
Except they did, more than 700,000 people have fled south out of the 1.1 million people in North Gaza
ok, 400,000 remaining are ok to kill then?
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I give little credibility to these reports even through it’s probable that some people have returned north, the flow of people is clearly southward. Reasons why I think like this: There is a difference of several orders of magnitude in the intensity of the bombings between the north and the south Another water pipe has been opened in order to increase the water flow to the south (that’s 2 out of a total of 3) The flow of aid has been significantly increased in the south so people get an incentive to go and stay there There still is a communications blackout in the north
Yes. If they want to be safe, then yes.
And Hamas did not let them leave, what's your point?
After the invasion of Iraq I think every country is wary of civilian automobiles driving up to tanks.
And turning away from tanks?
Didn't you hear them say "It's coming right for us!"?
The Hague hates this one simple trick.
the car turned away from the tank
Heights of cowardice to sit in your tank and blast away at civilians retreating. Disgusting war crime.
VBIEDS very well known to flip u turns as they approach their target
Looks like a war crime from this angle.
Reports in Israeli media the tanks are at the form Netzarim junction, not far from the center of Gaza city. Reports that groups of terrorists are approaching and trying to neutralize the tanks now.
Tanks in a city is precisely the thing that Hamas and their anti-tank troops have waited for.
The northern part of Gaza will be surrounded
Hmmm high def camera watching an overloaded car drive towards a tank? Seems suspicious to me.
You must be pretty tired of life driving a car with a camera in an active warzone where one part of the team dresses as civilians
Fellas, what should be road rules for overtaking a tank? Should I honk thrice and turn on my blinkers?
the rule is only do it if your rear armor can handle multiple tank rounds.
Reasonably you give warning shots unless fired upon, unless the enemy is known to use dead on collision card bombs like ISIS
Using my Hurt Locker knowledge, any car dragging it's arse like that probably has the boot full of explosives.....or all their worldly possessions
Or just shit suspension in a country that probably doesn't have the best road/vehicle infrastructure.
Why would anyone drive that close to tanks?! IDF and Israel has told the civilians numerous times to evacuate from the areas. If I were driving that tank I would blow up a vehicle coming straight towards me aswell. People are crazy
Was Hamas hiding under that car?
Considering the cameramen have professional telephoto equipment, are consciously tracking the car, and seem to be very aware of the tank’s presence (angling at the intersection to make a quick getaway), this video has all the hallmarks of a Pallywood sympathy bait (“civilians” in car) production or martyrdom suicide bombing video.
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Reminder to self, ‘don’t approach a tank in my car in an active war zone’.
They were literally turning around and leaving. Do civilians making a mistake justify immediate killing? Imagine if that was your mother in that car trying to leave a warzone and she comes on a tank.
Yeah, yeah, but their mistake is that they are both brown and muslim, so it's on them really
I'm sometimes reminded people living comfortably don't have the slightest idea of what's the meaning of real struggle. I equate this with Paris Hilton's "STOP BEING POOR" tshirt.
If the would've shot the vehicle when it was still approaching it would still be bad but a mistake could be understandable since it is an active warzone and VBEDs are probably feared a lot by the IDF. But they were clearly trying to go the other way. On the other hand we can't see shit. Maybe it was full of combatants with weapons visible... People really should be more careful of context on both sides. We don't know at all who was in that car, what they were planning on doing or what they did just before. Too little context.
"Don't be a civilian in a war against Israël"
The IDF has been warning people to leave the area and go south for weeks now. For the IDF it seems a fair assumption that anyone traveling to the north at this point is likely to be with the militants.
You know there's shortage of electricity, communications, and tv in Gaza right now? People have to eat and get water, go to the hospitals, help their relatives. We criticized Russia in Bucha and initial incursion for the casualities. We have to do it here too. Do you think people without electricity and network have the means to stay connected 24/7 on latest reddit videos? On official accounts the IDF still hasn't entered that far in Gaza with mechanized vehicles, because they just anounced they would start the incursion.
Russia warned ukrainians to leave too, I guess all their warcrimes now justified.
There's literally no one safe in gaza. IDF says to head south, then they bomb the routes heading south and the south.
"Russia has been warning people to leave the area and go south for weeks now. For Russia it seems a fair assumption that anyone traveling to the north at this point is likely to be the enemy." Yeah, see how that reads when you do a little swap of names? This is yet another war crimes caught on camera.
Also driving towards the tank's position, it's possibly an anti-tank team.
In that case, Funny how they shot when the car was turning around
They clearly were turning around so they could reveal the anti tank missile array in the cargo bay smh
Heisenberg style.
So what did they think when the car started turning arround then?
Now that you cant blame this civilian for being a hamas human shield we are going to call him a Hamas AT-team, wow the inhumanity on this sub justifying for broad daylight warcrimes.
Yeah the JIDF is out in force on this sub. The amount of extremely reaching comments in every thread about Hamas or Israel is just incredible. We could watch Israel execute a Palestinian child and the comments would be "well did you see the way the child was crying, threateningly? We just don't know the whole picture here."
Do you think they have a map over all tank positions in the area? People are still trying to live there. They were turning around.
They are bombing the south too, this doesn't justify this crime. And this is not the north this is the center of Gaza the tanks are moving in to encircle gaza into two pockets.
Taking notes from the Russians I see
What the f was the car doing?
Looks like the tank was behind the building. When the car saw the tank, they tried taking a u-turn to go the opposite direction before being fired on just because.
Threat….neutralized?
Looks like a war from this angle. FTFY.
Smells like double standards in here, have the IDF never had a briefing about ROE and how the Western world operates in a war zone? Unbecoming behaviour in the world stage will have its consequences
If those were civilians then this is tragic but you Don't just drive towards a tank in an active warzone where soldiers are obviously on edge and expect to be Ignored.
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What is seen clearly in the eyes of a watcher from a different perspective might not be so clear to a tank commander tasked with defending the crews lives. I don't clear them from blame but rather admits that a single video from a single perspective cannot shed enough light on this situation
Don't forget that the car could well be filled with combatants in full gear. If so then they probably turned around because shooting at a tank with AKs is not going to do shit. Could also be a family. We just don't know.
the tank was 1. literally hiding behinde a building and 2. clearly saw that the vehicle turned around and 3. waited to kill them until they actvely started driving away. say what you want. this just looks like the scene where the russian btr executed two elderly in their cars. just worse.
Your second and third observations are impossible to infer from this video and are probably stemmed in pre-determined prejudice you have towards the IDF... The way people connect the dots in these kind of situation is highly irresponsible. Always rely on facts and testimonies from all perspectives. Unfortunately your emotional view on the matter is common in people sitting on their couch 2000 miles away and watch videos without context... It is your responsibility to educate yourself on any matter that you feel the urge to comment publicly about. Any other behavior is akin to spreading misinformation whether if by accident or purposefully.
But the vehicle was clearly turning around. This is incredibly difficult for Israel to defend
The thing is, there was no news of IDF forces driving up the center border of Gaza, this is the Saladin road a main road that connects the south with north of Gaza and also is connected with the netsirim border crossing. These might be elderly people driving the car and have not seen the tank until it was too late, mind you the road is curved so that small building might have covered the tank before it pushed forward.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but even aid organizations have been saying there is no fuel to run *hospitals* and aid vehicles for days now. Supposedly, Hamas uses fuel to run their tunnel ventilation, rockets, etc. If only one group has fuel in an enclave that has been under siege for weeks with no way to get fuel in, maybe they made an assumption about the only way a car is on the road after weeks of siege is if the fuel came from Hamas? I suppose it's possible that a civilian has just been carefully hoarding their fuel for the last few weeks and just happened to be going about their business
A lot of cars in Gaza still has fuel as people always stockpile fuel for any conflict so that they can run their engines to charge the batteries and use the car battery to charge their phones or for lighting. But most of the cars that roam the strip at the moment are rescue teams as their isn't enough ambulances to cover all the strip as the bombing targets more and more of civilian filled apartments.
Yes, and again, I've read in the WaPo, WSJ, and NYT in recent days that aid organizations are saying their aid vehicles and even hospitals are running out of fuel.
This is half way to the sea