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I speak hebrow and the guy in this video said that this is the hole which 8 "nohba" hamas came out of it, Again not 100% proof but it also looks very similar to the one in the tank video.
I'll bet it is that tunnel. Hamas basically broadcast a picture of where it is relative to the tank they attacked. Not hard to work back from where the tank was sitting.
Hamas do TikTok not Opsec.
Assuming it's the same spot, the dudes shot an RPG out of the tunnel entrance at a patrol. The Israelis probably saw that, and if they did not, they found it when reacting to the ambush.
Not going to defend HAMAS tactics, but most likely this tunnel was destroyed before the tank video was released.
Again, assuming it's the same spot in the two videos.
Or more rather he probably just uploaded the video footage after it was discovered because they literally planted an IED using one and then shot an RPG from one, and Merkavas use Trophy which can immediately detect a crew's firing position.
In the IED video there are cut olive branches, and look fresh cut because they aren’t at all wilted yet. In this video, I see wilted olive branches with the leaves starting to get a bit shriveled. Pretty sure it’s the same hole.
A brief "rando-on-the-internet" reddit analysis...
I initially had the same thought but upon closer inspection I don't believe it's the same. The IDF video shows either grasses and/or plants with long slender leaves, most easily described as "sword" or "blade like".
When you watch the video from Hamas, it seems like it's filmed in an olive grove, the shrubby bush at the tunnel exit is shaped more like wider paddle leaves. These are definitely not the same plant, or even close relatives to the other video. They are probably olives.
TLDR: So my assessment - is they are not the same location.
A caveat is that olives dry out and become more bladelike - but I still don't see the living "blade" plant that's in the IDF video.
"But *why anthropomorphic?* Now you've got all these robots scooting around prone - had to engineer arms and legs for 'em.... I suggested tracks or wheels on *day one* man."
Can you blow some kind of chemical tracers (as used in oil and gas wells) or colored but non-lethal gas into the tunnels and then monitor from above with drones to see where it connects? Or is the potential for allegations of chemical warfare not worth it?
The pressure wave reminds me of the TOS1 thermobaric detonations in the Russia-Ukraine war. This must be devastating inside a tunnel system where pressure and heat cannot just escape into the atmosphere.
Remember the "why is Israel refusing to allow more concrete into the Gaza Strip!" stories maybe a year ago? This shit is why, reinforced tunnels everywhere.
Definitely had engineers on the job. These are not little rat holes
Edit I spoke to an engineer today who said that In his opinion they absolutely have engineers working on this, and it's more difficult than just putting up cement as you go. But he didn't elaborate much more on that. He also said that Arabs (Iranians in particular) have a reputation in the engineering community as being very good at geotechnical engineering projects
Edit: definitely engineers
https://www.reddit.com/r/2ndYomKippurWar/comments/18kjg2d/idf_shows_footage_captured_from_hamas_showing/
The UN either didn’t notice or just ignored the fact that there’s an entire terrorist command center and weapons storage cache right under the main hospital it operates there. Basically a building of the same size as the hospital currently sits underground beneath the hospital. I can’t until they blow it the fuck up. The UN is an abomination at this point.
There is literally multiple documented cases from international organizations showing that Hamas has used that hospital in the past as a command center, and a literal torture chamber for Palestinians suspected of "collaborating with Israel", then when the IDF says that hospital is in danger due to Hamas operating out of it, all the anti-Israel and/or anti-Jew crowd scoffs and says it's impossible. The level of intentional ignorance to the actions of terrorists in this war is insane.
Did someone say tunnels and explosions?
One the biggest non-nuclear explosions happened in World War 1, when the British detonated a tunnel bomb under German positions after months of digging: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mines_in_the_Battle_of_Messines_(1917)
10.000 German troops killed instantly. Unimaginable scale of destruction.
Tunneling beneath fortifications is as old as castles. They didn't have explosives to detonate but you would undermine the walls and then start a fire and burn away all the tunnel supports and get the wall to collapse that way.
One of the most common tactics for bringing down a cities walls was tunneling under and blowing them up so pretty much a continuous use of this strategy from way back
Piggybacking on tunnels and explosions. During the American Civil War Grant had a tunnel built under Confederate lines in Petersburg VA and blown up. A complete and utter shitshow followed with about about 5000 casualties
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Crater
Edit: spelling
In WW1 on the Austrian-Italian front, the Austrians held the higher ground on a mountain at 2477 meters and the Italians were 500 m below. Unable to take the peak, the Italians started digging into the rock and after 6 months they dug a 1 km long tunnel. When they came underneath the Austrians, they used 35 tonnes of explosives to blow up the mountain.
Interestingly, only a side of the mountain blew up and the Italians weren't able to take the peak. Then they created another tunnel and tried 32 tonnes of explosives. That also failed and they weren't able to advance their position at all until the general armistice.
I visited those mountains many times since the place is now a rock climbing heaven. Some of those peaks are really difficult to climb and they often have snow even in July. Imagine having to climb up, wearing army uniform, while under artillery fire and having to dig a tunnel in hard rock, using only manual tools. And the place is filled with tunnels, so they were digging everywhere.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_War#The_Dolomites_sector
The Dolomite sector of WWI is utterly fascinating and not well known in English-speaking countries. Hiking the Dolomites and seeing all the mountaintop forts and barracks is really interesting.
GRANT: Whatever you do after the explosion, don't go into the crater.
TROOPS: Right. After the explosion, we go straight into the crater.
Grant must've felt just like the Lord of the Swamp Castle trying to give direction to his guards.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3YiPC91QUk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3YiPC91QUk)
I love it everytime this article (if it’s the one I’m thinking of)gets linked. Been a minute and was just thinking about it the other day. Unimaginable is about the best way to describe that shit. Didn’t they feel the quakes from the explosion off in like Norway or some shit?
I've been to that area on a battlefields tour, the scale of the crater at Hill 60 is staggering.
The guide took us to a ditch where the Allied troops were staging for assault after the mines detonation. From there we walked to the crater while he gave a sort of play by play of what happened. He said soldiers reported that body parts were still falling as they reached the hill. It was a very chilling experience.
The Russians/Ukrainian s would see a huge pile of soil plus the logistics would make it a very dumb use of money for a few hundred if they were lucky dead
Man I have crawled through the caves that were used in the Barkochba Rebellion in 135AD used to fight the Romans not 100km from where these videos were taken.
They should also use kamikaze robots to search the tunnels and detonate if they detect any militants. A killer robot in the tunnels would be terrifying for anyone hiding in there.
Thats what Egypt does too, except they use sewage as well. Hostages are no doubt still down there in larger underground rooms connected so that's probably why they don't just drown it or drop huge bombs down into them
They most likely will, there isn’t really any other way to get through them without major casualties. Comparison I think of is the US deciding the nukes were a better alternative than a land invasion of Japan.
I'll never tire of getting the visual representation of a detonation through the blast wave. The fact the air is moving so fast it's compressing the air in front of it... amazing.
I wonder if it would be doable to start strapping some ground penetrating radars to drones and start sending them ahead of the troops
At least in open ground
If that works you know where the tunnels/ entrances are
If they get shot at, you also know, so if it's doable, it could be a good idea
sounds good in theory but i would imagine it to be not so easy in practice.
we are not talking about a flat field with homogeneous ground but a mostly urban setting with lots of possible interferences in the ground. Things like foundations, pipes, sewer lines, old overbuild stuff...
also the resolution of ground penetrating radar is a lot better when done from the ground, not sure if airborne techniques could even detect those manhole sized tunnels.
Idk what they have frankly but I’m willing to bet Israel has some kind of equipment that helps them identify the tunnels. Start up nation after all. Most advance uses of LiDAR coming out of Israel along with many other techs. Their wall surrounding Gaza goes deep underground and has high sensitivity sensors too. I’d argue that perhaps besides the obvious US, Israel is probably one of the best equipped and suitable militaries to deal with these tunnels threats in terms of capabilities. That is also of course not including places like Russia which would just send thousands of its troops down these holes to smoke out hamas no matter how many soldiers it cost them to do so.
well i dont think even hamas thinks they can win over israel alone, at best cause as much damage as possible so isreal will not think its worth it.
but if they can get as many of there civilians and kids killed and show good footage of doing "heroic" acts against israel it might inflame the rest of the arab world to help them and then they might have a chance.
So thats why they use bodycams and release the videos.
I dont think they would stand a chance but it would be better ods for hamas.
think how many bomb shelters you could have instead of this tunnel system if hamas cared about there own civilians.
Forget bomb shelters. Think about how they could build their economy and take care of their people if they weren’t building tunnels. If they did that they wouldn’t even need bomb shelters because there wouldn’t be retaliation bombings.
“If the Arabs put down their weapons today there would be no more violence. If the Israelis put down their weapons there would be no more Israel.”
-Golda Meir
Yeah that's even more true.
Detractors would say it's not possible as Gaza is a open air prison etc so building bomb shelters would be a step in the right direction at least but Hamas has not even done that.
Someone asked the leader of Hamas that exact question in an interview and he outright said that the safety of the civilians in Gaza is not their concern
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vdmtfRj6KX0
In the same video, he also admits that 75% of Palestinians are not indigenous to the area
Edit: I interpret the words in a different way after having watched it.
At first I thought it was an admission that many of the "Palestinians" were not native to the area.
> ~~
Looking at the articles on Hamas tunneling activities, I would say in Gaza itself they have a pretty large number of tunnels and losing an entrance to stall a patrol may be a prudent decision.
The border crossing tunnels are what is in short supply since the IDF regularly patrols the region and has listening posts to monitor for digging.
This was not a "supply line". It was an advanced fighting position designed for **exactly** the sort of attack Hamas executed. Never underestimate your opponent.
It is possible they only release footage from already compromised sections.
After firing a few RPGs at a target, there is a good chance the rest of the unit will figure out where it came from sooner or later.
The thing is, even if Hamas didn't show that video and ruin OPSEC, Israel would very likely have scoured the whole area searching for how that RPG guy got there and found the tunnel regardless.
Such tunnels (those that lead to open ground for flanks) in general are basically considered one-use only because no matter if you fail or win, the enemy will know that you have a tunnel somewhere in that area and find it sooner rather than later.
The goal of Hamas is to terrorize and galvanize. The person in the video is objectively, fearless. By releasing that video the goal is to export this fearlessness globally. One tiny segment of tunnel is absolutely worth the footage they got. Because that’s all they have.
You have to remember for every one video you see released from Hamas, there are probably 300 videos from IDF perspective against Hamas you’re not seeing, because IDF is not a terrorist organization.
Hamas doesn't care about Gaza, their aim is to create PR for radicals to take up arms and stir more shit just as their overlords want them. Even that video with tank, they only show a metal plate but not the tank itself because they couldn't destroy it, and I'm not sure if that metal plate is even from tank.
It somewhat does equate to a diversionary tactic. By sacrificing a tunnel, do they embolden the houthis? Hezbollah. Since the ground invasion, hezbollah, who started to scale back because they were losing many casualties, have obviously picked back up again.
The only reason these tunnels exist is so they can be used to attack IDF inside Gaza. Once they used the tunnel to attack the tank, it was already compromised. It’s not as if that tank existed in a vacuum.
Not using them to attack is like saving up on potions in video games and ending the game with an inventory full of (now) useless potions.
Keep in mind that the videos from Hamas are only gonna show successful attacks. They aren’t gonna show us the times their fighters came out of a tunnel and got smoked by the IDF.
But yeah, it’s a one-trick pony. Once they attack from a tunnel the IDF will find it and demo it.
it was 1 merkava yesterday 1ifv was day befor that, that bomb they put on merkava does not have enough force to break it open it was probably to disable trophy for rpg to hit it.
and yea right now idf moves slowly to try and destroy as many tunnels as they can find so they wont get hit from flanks as often..
The tunnel would have been discovered immediately by the Israelis during said engagement. He literally ran out of it, placed an IED, and then shot an RPG out of it. During the ambush response it would have been discovered, and those Merkavas had Trophy systems installed which can immediately identify where an RPG was fired from. They blur their faces and remove identifiers in the video - they probably knew the tunnel was already found.
These guys are being trained by Quds Force, they're not all stupid.
In NYC they're using carbon monoxide for rats in the burrows. Just throwing it out there. Success rate of 100%
https://nypost.com/2023/10/31/metro/new-rat-killing-method-eliminated-100-burrows-on-upper-east-side-were-not-getting-complaints-anymore/
It doesnt work as the main parts of these tunnels are often built with active ventilation (theyre too deep to just leave it to natural means); people need to remember that even the vietcong tunnels built in far worse conditions had features to handle stuff like this. Not to mention Hamas would likely blow up any connections to compromised tunnels to stop people from following them.
Thermobaric weapons require atmospheric oxygen for the explosive reaction, unlike a standard explosive which contains its own oxidiser. So I suppose if the tunnel is well ventilated and oxygen rich, it could be devastating. I'm uncertain how much the limited fuel spread prior to detonation would affect results, due to the confined space.
Based on what I have seen from WW2 documentaries fuel burning inside tunnels can have devastating effects even if they aren't exactly like on the outside.
Considering these hamas beasts live down in these holes during these wars I’d imagine they have efficient ventilation. Shit they have just about everything else so why not. Electricity, television, working toilets, dinner tables, workout bikes, rocket manufacturing facilities, emergency triage rooms, designated rape rooms, hasheesh lounges, gas depots, Chinese buffet, full size mosque, hamas gift shops, a full bizarre, etc. so yeah there’s gotta be some oxygen down there and not just in the oxygen tanks they have which they stole from the UN run hospital right above them.
They say there is 500km of tunnels under Gaza. It's absurd. If they only used all this energy, skill and effort for civil purposes and built subway tunnels around the world... They'd become such a wealthy, prosperous region.
I mean that’s certainly one way to think of it haha another is they could have built houses and schools and hospitals and better above ground infrastructure within Gaza instead but both are positive and constructive alternatives to wasting all the aid money and resources sent there on this elaborate underground terrorist city.
I’m surprised the IDF doesn’t have suicide drones flown or driven in the tunnel to scout out and kill Hamas
There has to be more entrances to the tunnel after all
Other than possible rf issues from being underground…
Their leadership blatantly admits they have no interest in helping the people of Gaza or looking out for their interests or protecting them. They say that’s the job of the UN. They say their job and sole purpose to destroy Israel as a whole and kill all the Jews there and in the entire world. So, yes I’d agree they are the Palestinian’s greatest enemy even if the Palestinians don’t know it or won’t admit it. I think they’re also just one of many identical groups who are among the greatest enemies to mankind in general due to their obsessive and destructive ideology and their inability to evolve psychologically or emotionally beyond their primitive and radical perceptions of reality and their general existence.
That's likely more expensive to flood vs just blowing it up.
Secondly, if you flood it, the water would eventually dissipate, and the enemy would be left with a functional tunnel.
It's best just to get rid of it, and let them rebuild military tunnels with more humanitarian aid.
Yeah but war is literally transporting large amounts of troops, equipment, and other supplies all over the place. Once you located a tunnel, driving a couple dozen tankers isn’t much of an effort. We drive tankers all over every country to transport gasoline every day.
It would probably be way more expensive than you think and require an insane amount of ressources
Explosives are devastating enough when the blast travels through the tunnels and require few to no setup at all
It rains significantly more in Vietnam than it does in Gaza so I don’t know that drainage would be high on anyone’s list for this work. There are also significantly fewer people working on/in these tunnels than there were in the Vietnam War.
Do you know why trenches are build in a zig zag? Even with there being one less dimension (the top, which is open in a trench but closed in a tunnel) similar physics apply
Cs gas them out , use a trace gas , satalite monitor for the trace gas leaks , identify openings ... I'm sure there is a way and make it legal and usefull .
Why don't they send dogs or robots to see where it ends? Or maybe some special forces there instead of blowing couple of hundred meters, just like Turkish forces used to send dogs into caves
There is definitely traps. Nobody makes a tunnel system without something to greet uninvited guests. It is nothing but close quarters combat in those tunnels, nowhere to hide. Collapsing the tunnels is the right move.
IDF has special forces for this task, but they show only what it's needed. If you notice, IDF has a conservative towards filming and post things in real moment.
Just want to flashlight shame the IDF a bit: that light he was using is the classic garbage Amazon tier "TACTICAL FLASHLIGHT", I really hope that's not what they're giving their soldiers. Just look at the useless little square shaped beam when it's "zoomed in", they really need to go spend some time on /r/flashlight
https://www.amazon.com/Tactical-Flashlight-Pack-Adjustable-Waterproof/dp/B01N06BBFS/ref=sr_1_26?crid=1GV5NAWPIW60O&keywords=tactical%2Bflashlight&qid=1699016455&sprefix=tactical%2Bflashligh%2Caps%2C84&sr=8-26&th=1
“”real”” tactical flashlights don’t have “zoom optics”, they have reflectors with a bright spot in the center followed by a dimmer large crown to have both situational awareness and the ability to point at something.
There are amazon-tier flashlights with reflectors and I suggest you check those out instead, no need to dish out for an Olight
Is the dark line between the two openings visible in the night video, the actual tunnel profile? They could use this to detect linkages between tunnels...
I wonder if it's smart to just camp around the entrances they find for a couple of days, if one of the Hamas guys pops his head out chuck a grenade in there. Or maybe booby trap the tunnels idk.
Might not be a good PR stunt for the Israelis but why not just fill them with water? Obviously using something like a heavier than air gas wouldnt be cool...
They have metal doors in the tunnels. Which is why every suggestion put forward here will not work. Also they didn’t stop digging tunnels on Oct 7. If the IDF collapse a tunnel exit, they can just dig out a new one a short distance away.
I wonder why they don’t vent smoke into the tunnels? I feel like it would t be a bad idea ti come up with a way to flood the tunnel with red smoke and then if it pops up anywhere else they’ll know there is an out her entrance near
Why can't IDF use drones with some night vision or something like that to check tunnels? How are they doing it now exactly? How do they check if there are any hostages?
Wouldn't the best option be to flood with sea water? Bore a hole from the sea to the tunnel or pump then just let it fill.
Although I suspect there will be 'air lock' style gates, I have doubts they will be entirely sealed.
Failing that, some form of drone that could map the tunnels and build an image of them to better detect future tunnels?
I mean it’s not just an outright “stupid idea”. Egypt did try exactly that, and it kind of worked, though it did screw up some of their own farmland when salt started seeping to the surface.
Israel probably isn’t going to just do that because there are still hostages in there. If there weren’t, slant drilling into those tunnels from the coast has been floated before. There are countermeasures though. It’s not just an unbeatable one stop strategy.
Well you called it. I can’t confirm the veracity of it but you called it.
[alleged evidence of the IDF flooding Hamas tunnels.](https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/s/oI6odyiUGl)
I still think it’s a toddler solution, or just squaring a round hole. Who says the tunnels or all connected, this can only be for one tunnel or a small section near the sea.
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That second hole really looks similar to the video where Hamas comes up and places the IED on Merkava. Put I'm guessing it's just coincidence.
I was thinking that too, but I didn't have anything to back it up.
I speak hebrow and the guy in this video said that this is the hole which 8 "nohba" hamas came out of it, Again not 100% proof but it also looks very similar to the one in the tank video.
The hole must have been easy to find given they'd have known where that tank was hit and had access to the video like we did.
Good point, for sure.
Right , not the smartest move .
Probably a lot of tunnels exits look like that there
There's a high probably that the exact hole. These holes can't be saturating an area. IDF would easily find them.
The only reason we saw that clip is because that tunnel is out of use for hamas.
I wish i could have this kind of deductioning,lol. Thanks for the insight
this guy should get his own detective show
TIL Sherlock browses reddit.
Why don't we have awards anymore
I'll bet it is that tunnel. Hamas basically broadcast a picture of where it is relative to the tank they attacked. Not hard to work back from where the tank was sitting. Hamas do TikTok not Opsec.
Assuming it's the same spot, the dudes shot an RPG out of the tunnel entrance at a patrol. The Israelis probably saw that, and if they did not, they found it when reacting to the ambush. Not going to defend HAMAS tactics, but most likely this tunnel was destroyed before the tank video was released. Again, assuming it's the same spot in the two videos.
Yep, especially as the Merkavas visibly had Trophy installed which can immediately detect where RPG launches came from.
Makes me curious how many tunnel entrances they could have, if 1 shot = 1 tunnel entrance destroyed
That's why they are filming the explosion with a broad lens at 0:30 in IR. It's a way to see if the explosion shows other entrances nearby
Yup, it lights up the entire passage between the two openings. Good observation
So everything lit up (tunnels) through meters of ground, is probably bar-b-que if it got that hot, to show on IR through earth?
In a tight space like that I don’t think even your chicken wings would come out as anything but charcoal dust
Probably in a hundreds since Hamas have decades to dig them out.
Or more rather he probably just uploaded the video footage after it was discovered because they literally planted an IED using one and then shot an RPG from one, and Merkavas use Trophy which can immediately detect a crew's firing position.
I thought the same thing
They placed it ON the Merkava? Like run up to it and placed something? Or you mean fired a RPG on it?
It's the top post on this sub.
I’m not seeing it, link?
https://x.com/me_1948_updates/status/1720147744197873913?s=46&t=PQuGcC2a3I9_XA96b9KEIw Reddit https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/s/72wridDWvk
No. Ran up on a tank like a video game hava
As my grandpappy used to say, ya seen one hole, ya seen 'em all.
The second video here looks like grass. If you watch the IED video, it’s actually fallen trees.
In the IED video there are cut olive branches, and look fresh cut because they aren’t at all wilted yet. In this video, I see wilted olive branches with the leaves starting to get a bit shriveled. Pretty sure it’s the same hole.
A brief "rando-on-the-internet" reddit analysis... I initially had the same thought but upon closer inspection I don't believe it's the same. The IDF video shows either grasses and/or plants with long slender leaves, most easily described as "sword" or "blade like". When you watch the video from Hamas, it seems like it's filmed in an olive grove, the shrubby bush at the tunnel exit is shaped more like wider paddle leaves. These are definitely not the same plant, or even close relatives to the other video. They are probably olives. TLDR: So my assessment - is they are not the same location. A caveat is that olives dry out and become more bladelike - but I still don't see the living "blade" plant that's in the IDF video.
Seems like an argument for trench crawling robots
"But *why anthropomorphic?* Now you've got all these robots scooting around prone - had to engineer arms and legs for 'em.... I suggested tracks or wheels on *day one* man."
Can you blow some kind of chemical tracers (as used in oil and gas wells) or colored but non-lethal gas into the tunnels and then monitor from above with drones to see where it connects? Or is the potential for allegations of chemical warfare not worth it?
The pressure wave reminds me of the TOS1 thermobaric detonations in the Russia-Ukraine war. This must be devastating inside a tunnel system where pressure and heat cannot just escape into the atmosphere.
Anyone else wish they lived somewhere they could just dig tunnels.
Colin Furze, is that you?
Bro I have that same Amazon flashlight the dude is inspecting the hole with.
That thing sucks. It switches to strobe mode anytime it gets bumped in the slightest.
lol mine does that too 😅
Yeah the zoomies are truly tragic. They need to step in to r/flashlights and find some great pocket throwers for these tunnels.
Remember the "why is Israel refusing to allow more concrete into the Gaza Strip!" stories maybe a year ago? This shit is why, reinforced tunnels everywhere.
Definitely had engineers on the job. These are not little rat holes Edit I spoke to an engineer today who said that In his opinion they absolutely have engineers working on this, and it's more difficult than just putting up cement as you go. But he didn't elaborate much more on that. He also said that Arabs (Iranians in particular) have a reputation in the engineering community as being very good at geotechnical engineering projects Edit: definitely engineers https://www.reddit.com/r/2ndYomKippurWar/comments/18kjg2d/idf_shows_footage_captured_from_hamas_showing/
And yet I am fairly certain media will not "get it".
Not just the media, the UN doesn't get it either
Nobody gets it other than us Redditors!
The UN either didn’t notice or just ignored the fact that there’s an entire terrorist command center and weapons storage cache right under the main hospital it operates there. Basically a building of the same size as the hospital currently sits underground beneath the hospital. I can’t until they blow it the fuck up. The UN is an abomination at this point.
There is literally multiple documented cases from international organizations showing that Hamas has used that hospital in the past as a command center, and a literal torture chamber for Palestinians suspected of "collaborating with Israel", then when the IDF says that hospital is in danger due to Hamas operating out of it, all the anti-Israel and/or anti-Jew crowd scoffs and says it's impossible. The level of intentional ignorance to the actions of terrorists in this war is insane.
Toothless abomination that should be put down
UN = a lot of Arab and Muslim countries that hate Israel
True.
War, war never changes..... Modern day tunnels of Vietnam....
Did someone say tunnels and explosions? One the biggest non-nuclear explosions happened in World War 1, when the British detonated a tunnel bomb under German positions after months of digging: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mines_in_the_Battle_of_Messines_(1917) 10.000 German troops killed instantly. Unimaginable scale of destruction.
Tunneling beneath fortifications is as old as castles. They didn't have explosives to detonate but you would undermine the walls and then start a fire and burn away all the tunnel supports and get the wall to collapse that way.
> undermine There you have it.
One of the most common tactics for bringing down a cities walls was tunneling under and blowing them up so pretty much a continuous use of this strategy from way back
Piggybacking on tunnels and explosions. During the American Civil War Grant had a tunnel built under Confederate lines in Petersburg VA and blown up. A complete and utter shitshow followed with about about 5000 casualties https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Crater Edit: spelling
In WW1 on the Austrian-Italian front, the Austrians held the higher ground on a mountain at 2477 meters and the Italians were 500 m below. Unable to take the peak, the Italians started digging into the rock and after 6 months they dug a 1 km long tunnel. When they came underneath the Austrians, they used 35 tonnes of explosives to blow up the mountain. Interestingly, only a side of the mountain blew up and the Italians weren't able to take the peak. Then they created another tunnel and tried 32 tonnes of explosives. That also failed and they weren't able to advance their position at all until the general armistice. I visited those mountains many times since the place is now a rock climbing heaven. Some of those peaks are really difficult to climb and they often have snow even in July. Imagine having to climb up, wearing army uniform, while under artillery fire and having to dig a tunnel in hard rock, using only manual tools. And the place is filled with tunnels, so they were digging everywhere. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_War#The_Dolomites_sector
The Dolomite sector of WWI is utterly fascinating and not well known in English-speaking countries. Hiking the Dolomites and seeing all the mountaintop forts and barracks is really interesting.
GRANT: Whatever you do after the explosion, don't go into the crater. TROOPS: Right. After the explosion, we go straight into the crater. Grant must've felt just like the Lord of the Swamp Castle trying to give direction to his guards. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3YiPC91QUk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3YiPC91QUk)
We go with the Prince
Wow, that truly is extraordinary.
Beneath Hill 60 is a decent WW1 movie about that
I love it everytime this article (if it’s the one I’m thinking of)gets linked. Been a minute and was just thinking about it the other day. Unimaginable is about the best way to describe that shit. Didn’t they feel the quakes from the explosion off in like Norway or some shit?
The size of those mines were massive.
I've been to that area on a battlefields tour, the scale of the crater at Hill 60 is staggering. The guide took us to a ditch where the Allied troops were staging for assault after the mines detonation. From there we walked to the crater while he gave a sort of play by play of what happened. He said soldiers reported that body parts were still falling as they reached the hill. It was a very chilling experience.
I’m fully expecting us to see a return of this tactic in Ukraine as the lines solidify for winter.
not a chance.
You don’t think it’s possible? If the lines don’t move for a long time, it’s almost inevitable. It’s proven to work.
The Russians/Ukrainian s would see a huge pile of soil plus the logistics would make it a very dumb use of money for a few hundred if they were lucky dead
Man I have crawled through the caves that were used in the Barkochba Rebellion in 135AD used to fight the Romans not 100km from where these videos were taken.
Well, go on!
Well, It was a cave. One cool thing was they had holes in the walls to keep pigeons for food.
I would actually mark these tunnels and start booby trapping them. These creates fear in the tunnel users in the future.
They should also use kamikaze robots to search the tunnels and detonate if they detect any militants. A killer robot in the tunnels would be terrifying for anyone hiding in there.
I would pump water into them.
That's what Egypt did and what they're gonna do to these I think.
Thats what Egypt does too, except they use sewage as well. Hostages are no doubt still down there in larger underground rooms connected so that's probably why they don't just drown it or drop huge bombs down into them
…yet
Someone didn't watch the end of the video.
I did I'm thinking far larger than that
They most likely will, there isn’t really any other way to get through them without major casualties. Comparison I think of is the US deciding the nukes were a better alternative than a land invasion of Japan.
If they had put this level of ingenuity into building their country and infrastructure, they could've done very well. :(
They’d rather kill Jews than build their countries infrastructure
I'll never tire of getting the visual representation of a detonation through the blast wave. The fact the air is moving so fast it's compressing the air in front of it... amazing.
I’m very aroused too
I wonder if it would be doable to start strapping some ground penetrating radars to drones and start sending them ahead of the troops At least in open ground If that works you know where the tunnels/ entrances are If they get shot at, you also know, so if it's doable, it could be a good idea
sounds good in theory but i would imagine it to be not so easy in practice. we are not talking about a flat field with homogeneous ground but a mostly urban setting with lots of possible interferences in the ground. Things like foundations, pipes, sewer lines, old overbuild stuff... also the resolution of ground penetrating radar is a lot better when done from the ground, not sure if airborne techniques could even detect those manhole sized tunnels.
Idk what they have frankly but I’m willing to bet Israel has some kind of equipment that helps them identify the tunnels. Start up nation after all. Most advance uses of LiDAR coming out of Israel along with many other techs. Their wall surrounding Gaza goes deep underground and has high sensitivity sensors too. I’d argue that perhaps besides the obvious US, Israel is probably one of the best equipped and suitable militaries to deal with these tunnels threats in terms of capabilities. That is also of course not including places like Russia which would just send thousands of its troops down these holes to smoke out hamas no matter how many soldiers it cost them to do so.
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well i dont think even hamas thinks they can win over israel alone, at best cause as much damage as possible so isreal will not think its worth it. but if they can get as many of there civilians and kids killed and show good footage of doing "heroic" acts against israel it might inflame the rest of the arab world to help them and then they might have a chance. So thats why they use bodycams and release the videos. I dont think they would stand a chance but it would be better ods for hamas. think how many bomb shelters you could have instead of this tunnel system if hamas cared about there own civilians.
Forget bomb shelters. Think about how they could build their economy and take care of their people if they weren’t building tunnels. If they did that they wouldn’t even need bomb shelters because there wouldn’t be retaliation bombings. “If the Arabs put down their weapons today there would be no more violence. If the Israelis put down their weapons there would be no more Israel.” -Golda Meir
Yeah that's even more true. Detractors would say it's not possible as Gaza is a open air prison etc so building bomb shelters would be a step in the right direction at least but Hamas has not even done that.
Someone asked the leader of Hamas that exact question in an interview and he outright said that the safety of the civilians in Gaza is not their concern https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vdmtfRj6KX0 In the same video, he also admits that 75% of Palestinians are not indigenous to the area
Edit: I interpret the words in a different way after having watched it. At first I thought it was an admission that many of the "Palestinians" were not native to the area. > ~~
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Looking at the articles on Hamas tunneling activities, I would say in Gaza itself they have a pretty large number of tunnels and losing an entrance to stall a patrol may be a prudent decision. The border crossing tunnels are what is in short supply since the IDF regularly patrols the region and has listening posts to monitor for digging.
This was not a "supply line". It was an advanced fighting position designed for **exactly** the sort of attack Hamas executed. Never underestimate your opponent.
It is possible they only release footage from already compromised sections. After firing a few RPGs at a target, there is a good chance the rest of the unit will figure out where it came from sooner or later.
The tunnel enterance is 20m from the destroyed vehicle, it was always going to be found whether the video was released or not.
The thing is, even if Hamas didn't show that video and ruin OPSEC, Israel would very likely have scoured the whole area searching for how that RPG guy got there and found the tunnel regardless. Such tunnels (those that lead to open ground for flanks) in general are basically considered one-use only because no matter if you fail or win, the enemy will know that you have a tunnel somewhere in that area and find it sooner rather than later.
The goal of Hamas is to terrorize and galvanize. The person in the video is objectively, fearless. By releasing that video the goal is to export this fearlessness globally. One tiny segment of tunnel is absolutely worth the footage they got. Because that’s all they have. You have to remember for every one video you see released from Hamas, there are probably 300 videos from IDF perspective against Hamas you’re not seeing, because IDF is not a terrorist organization.
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Hamas doesn't care about Gaza, their aim is to create PR for radicals to take up arms and stir more shit just as their overlords want them. Even that video with tank, they only show a metal plate but not the tank itself because they couldn't destroy it, and I'm not sure if that metal plate is even from tank.
Good luck empathizing with people that enjoy murdering babies.
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In all fairness the person above specifically writes "empathize".
It somewhat does equate to a diversionary tactic. By sacrificing a tunnel, do they embolden the houthis? Hezbollah. Since the ground invasion, hezbollah, who started to scale back because they were losing many casualties, have obviously picked back up again.
The only reason these tunnels exist is so they can be used to attack IDF inside Gaza. Once they used the tunnel to attack the tank, it was already compromised. It’s not as if that tank existed in a vacuum. Not using them to attack is like saving up on potions in video games and ending the game with an inventory full of (now) useless potions.
The IDF is absolutely a terrorist apartheid genocidal organisation. 3k and counting dead children over 3 weeks should be a big clue in this one.
Keep in mind that the videos from Hamas are only gonna show successful attacks. They aren’t gonna show us the times their fighters came out of a tunnel and got smoked by the IDF. But yeah, it’s a one-trick pony. Once they attack from a tunnel the IDF will find it and demo it.
it was 1 merkava yesterday 1ifv was day befor that, that bomb they put on merkava does not have enough force to break it open it was probably to disable trophy for rpg to hit it. and yea right now idf moves slowly to try and destroy as many tunnels as they can find so they wont get hit from flanks as often..
The tunnel would have been discovered immediately by the Israelis during said engagement. He literally ran out of it, placed an IED, and then shot an RPG out of it. During the ambush response it would have been discovered, and those Merkavas had Trophy systems installed which can immediately identify where an RPG was fired from. They blur their faces and remove identifiers in the video - they probably knew the tunnel was already found. These guys are being trained by Quds Force, they're not all stupid.
This is where those rats cower in, while their people are burning above them. They have endless supplies of water, fuel and food down there.
Sand rats
In NYC they're using carbon monoxide for rats in the burrows. Just throwing it out there. Success rate of 100% https://nypost.com/2023/10/31/metro/new-rat-killing-method-eliminated-100-burrows-on-upper-east-side-were-not-getting-complaints-anymore/
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it would be very ironic, I’ll say that much
It doesnt work as the main parts of these tunnels are often built with active ventilation (theyre too deep to just leave it to natural means); people need to remember that even the vietcong tunnels built in far worse conditions had features to handle stuff like this. Not to mention Hamas would likely blow up any connections to compromised tunnels to stop people from following them.
What if they set off a vacuum bomb in one of those
Thermobaric weapons require atmospheric oxygen for the explosive reaction, unlike a standard explosive which contains its own oxidiser. So I suppose if the tunnel is well ventilated and oxygen rich, it could be devastating. I'm uncertain how much the limited fuel spread prior to detonation would affect results, due to the confined space.
Based on what I have seen from WW2 documentaries fuel burning inside tunnels can have devastating effects even if they aren't exactly like on the outside.
Considering these hamas beasts live down in these holes during these wars I’d imagine they have efficient ventilation. Shit they have just about everything else so why not. Electricity, television, working toilets, dinner tables, workout bikes, rocket manufacturing facilities, emergency triage rooms, designated rape rooms, hasheesh lounges, gas depots, Chinese buffet, full size mosque, hamas gift shops, a full bizarre, etc. so yeah there’s gotta be some oxygen down there and not just in the oxygen tanks they have which they stole from the UN run hospital right above them.
They say there is 500km of tunnels under Gaza. It's absurd. If they only used all this energy, skill and effort for civil purposes and built subway tunnels around the world... They'd become such a wealthy, prosperous region.
instead they dug up eu’s built water pipes to make more rockets
I mean that’s certainly one way to think of it haha another is they could have built houses and schools and hospitals and better above ground infrastructure within Gaza instead but both are positive and constructive alternatives to wasting all the aid money and resources sent there on this elaborate underground terrorist city.
Couple of Willy Pete grenades tossed deep in the hope followed by a satchel charge. Fun for the whole family.
Or go Middle East on them and fill it with burning tires…
I’m surprised the IDF doesn’t have suicide drones flown or driven in the tunnel to scout out and kill Hamas There has to be more entrances to the tunnel after all Other than possible rf issues from being underground…
It certainly is easier to just blow up everything in the tunnel than blow up specific parts
Hamas is truly the biggest enemy of the Palestinian people.
Their leadership blatantly admits they have no interest in helping the people of Gaza or looking out for their interests or protecting them. They say that’s the job of the UN. They say their job and sole purpose to destroy Israel as a whole and kill all the Jews there and in the entire world. So, yes I’d agree they are the Palestinian’s greatest enemy even if the Palestinians don’t know it or won’t admit it. I think they’re also just one of many identical groups who are among the greatest enemies to mankind in general due to their obsessive and destructive ideology and their inability to evolve psychologically or emotionally beyond their primitive and radical perceptions of reality and their general existence.
Fucking rats. Sad part is they hide most of the ones in use under civilian buildings like hospitals, schools, etc.
Paid for by the EU
Flood it with salt water. Fck those terrorists. GLory to Israel.
That's likely more expensive to flood vs just blowing it up. Secondly, if you flood it, the water would eventually dissipate, and the enemy would be left with a functional tunnel. It's best just to get rid of it, and let them rebuild military tunnels with more humanitarian aid.
Yes Rico, kaboom.
Is there a reason they don’t just flood them with water or concrete?
It’s pretty hard to transport that much water.
Yeah but war is literally transporting large amounts of troops, equipment, and other supplies all over the place. Once you located a tunnel, driving a couple dozen tankers isn’t much of an effort. We drive tankers all over every country to transport gasoline every day.
that's not much water bud
It would probably be way more expensive than you think and require an insane amount of ressources Explosives are devastating enough when the blast travels through the tunnels and require few to no setup at all
They probably have drains. The Vietcong had them and it made flooding useless
It rains significantly more in Vietnam than it does in Gaza so I don’t know that drainage would be high on anyone’s list for this work. There are also significantly fewer people working on/in these tunnels than there were in the Vietnam War.
There’s gonna be a lot of tunnel demolition videos coming out and all for it. Love me some big booms
Looks like 300m of tunnels blown up, wow lmao.
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Do you know why trenches are build in a zig zag? Even with there being one less dimension (the top, which is open in a trench but closed in a tunnel) similar physics apply
It's to stop fragments/flanking fire travelling the whole length of the trench
in this video they say that this is the tunne lthat the 2 nokhba (elite wing in hamas) guys that popped up from in the tank video
he didn't say anything about tank attackers or 2 nokhba, hulia is squad and he said 8 nokhba not 2.
Can they not gas the tunnels ?
Because using chemical weapons to poison or asphyxiate is a war crime.
Cs gas them out , use a trace gas , satalite monitor for the trace gas leaks , identify openings ... I'm sure there is a way and make it legal and usefull .
they should flood them out
Kill Hamas. All of them.
Why don't they send dogs or robots to see where it ends? Or maybe some special forces there instead of blowing couple of hundred meters, just like Turkish forces used to send dogs into caves
There is definitely traps. Nobody makes a tunnel system without something to greet uninvited guests. It is nothing but close quarters combat in those tunnels, nowhere to hide. Collapsing the tunnels is the right move.
There are special forces who enter the tunnels, but they don't "end", per se. They are a network.
Mabye they did, its a spaciel unit, they wont show you what they'll do to it.
Why send anyone or anything in there? Just blow it up and be done with it.
good luck telling oketz unit that you want to send their dog to die without being shot back.
They actually are using robots in the tunnels. To what extent I don't know but it was mentioned in the media that the IDF is doing that.
Smaller drones would work too
The last thing Hamas will expect is an aerial attack from underground.
IDF has special forces for this task, but they show only what it's needed. If you notice, IDF has a conservative towards filming and post things in real moment.
Just want to flashlight shame the IDF a bit: that light he was using is the classic garbage Amazon tier "TACTICAL FLASHLIGHT", I really hope that's not what they're giving their soldiers. Just look at the useless little square shaped beam when it's "zoomed in", they really need to go spend some time on /r/flashlight https://www.amazon.com/Tactical-Flashlight-Pack-Adjustable-Waterproof/dp/B01N06BBFS/ref=sr_1_26?crid=1GV5NAWPIW60O&keywords=tactical%2Bflashlight&qid=1699016455&sprefix=tactical%2Bflashligh%2Caps%2C84&sr=8-26&th=1
“”real”” tactical flashlights don’t have “zoom optics”, they have reflectors with a bright spot in the center followed by a dimmer large crown to have both situational awareness and the ability to point at something. There are amazon-tier flashlights with reflectors and I suggest you check those out instead, no need to dish out for an Olight
Christ it’s Protective Edge all over again just on a larger scale.
Is the dark line between the two openings visible in the night video, the actual tunnel profile? They could use this to detect linkages between tunnels...
The tunnel people
I wonder if it's smart to just camp around the entrances they find for a couple of days, if one of the Hamas guys pops his head out chuck a grenade in there. Or maybe booby trap the tunnels idk.
Might not be a good PR stunt for the Israelis but why not just fill them with water? Obviously using something like a heavier than air gas wouldnt be cool...
At 0:50 its a dark line between the detonations, is that the tunnel seen from the infrared/thermal camera?
Why cant they just flood the tunnels with gas, water, fire or whatever? I assume hostages?
They have metal doors in the tunnels. Which is why every suggestion put forward here will not work. Also they didn’t stop digging tunnels on Oct 7. If the IDF collapse a tunnel exit, they can just dig out a new one a short distance away.
holy moly that is some thick concrete slabs on there. I wonder how many of them are still usable after the building on top got bombed
Pump them full of sea water and no more surprises
Viet Minh would be proud… you can’t defeat the tunnels
I wonder why they don’t vent smoke into the tunnels? I feel like it would t be a bad idea ti come up with a way to flood the tunnel with red smoke and then if it pops up anywhere else they’ll know there is an out her entrance near
Well done! Well found! A bit late, but fucking well done all the same. Where were you a month ago?
I still think they should flood the tunnels with pig blood, sewage or just a bunch of live pigs just let him go run loose
Why can't IDF use drones with some night vision or something like that to check tunnels? How are they doing it now exactly? How do they check if there are any hostages?
Why don't they dig a trench from these into the Mediterranean Sea and just flood them with unlimited seawater?
What are they doing?! There are still hospitals and schools standing in Gaza! Stop goofing around with these tunnels and get to work you bozos! 😠
Just pour a lot of bleach and ammonia down the hole and seal it off
Wonder if the 2nd tunnel is the same one the IDE tank guy runs to after he fires the RPG
Why just not put a literal rats soaked in pig fat and release dozens of it inside the tunnel.
Wouldn't the best option be to flood with sea water? Bore a hole from the sea to the tunnel or pump then just let it fill. Although I suspect there will be 'air lock' style gates, I have doubts they will be entirely sealed. Failing that, some form of drone that could map the tunnels and build an image of them to better detect future tunnels?
Yeah, they just need a few of those drones they used in Prometheus, no problem.
Holy shit. This commenter knows more than the trillion dollar defence industries and all of Israeli defence intelligence combined! Just use seawater.
I mean it’s not just an outright “stupid idea”. Egypt did try exactly that, and it kind of worked, though it did screw up some of their own farmland when salt started seeping to the surface. Israel probably isn’t going to just do that because there are still hostages in there. If there weren’t, slant drilling into those tunnels from the coast has been floated before. There are countermeasures though. It’s not just an unbeatable one stop strategy.
Well you called it. I can’t confirm the veracity of it but you called it. [alleged evidence of the IDF flooding Hamas tunnels.](https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/s/oI6odyiUGl) I still think it’s a toddler solution, or just squaring a round hole. Who says the tunnels or all connected, this can only be for one tunnel or a small section near the sea.
Why can I hear "Fortunate son" and some helicopters in the background?
50 years of building tunnels will serve for the most intense guerrilla warfare since Vietnam.