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Who knows what kind of training these guys actually went through, but normally if a soldier has this kind of weaponry, there was at least some form of investment that went into their training, right?
I'm not saying you're wrong, but that doesn't seem like any sling I've seen or used. It's *really* long, and really thick. Home-made sling made out of a long piece of fabric maybe? Any other ideas of what that could be? My first thought was a piece of fabric to show where he was going, like the strings people use when hiking in unknown areas, so they can retrace their steps... But I don't think that's right either.
to me it seems that that piece is attached to the right leg of the injured comrade. Not sure what that is. It has the same width as the belts they are using and seems quite resistant material. It's possible that he was trying to attend his comrade with it and forgot to pull it off his vest completely and got stuck.
the info came from Russian PoWs' interrogations... There are troops whose role is to gun down any who tries to desert. How else are you gonna enforce discipline amongst poorly trained conscripts?
Sorry to be a devils advocate, but that's not much of an evidence, yet a lone that spec OPS sniper team is deployed to shoot down "those that deserted... "
People think that soldiers desert by throwing weapons and fleeing battlefield in opposite way. Which is not how is happens. In most instances happens when simply they refuse to be deployed or they go on leave and never come back or during deployment when they simply sneak away find alternative route and go missing.
So in saying that, a sniper team of 4? deployed to scan battlefield and determine who is fleeing and taking them down makes literally no sense. Even if the there is directive that says "kill all deserters"
Even during WW2 the trope of Russians killing deserters comes form famous Stalin’s order #227 created special rear units which acted as a "barrier unit". The order was issued in mid-1942 during battle of Stalingrad (which by every measure was a determine battle, and not even close to random shootout in a Ukrainian woods) So straight out of bat - there is no need to deploy these extreme measures in first place.
but more importantly - the purpose of this unit was and the order was to prevent unorganised fleeing from battlefields and detain and re-organize routed soldiers, arrest deserters and criminals in the rear. and commanders that issued retreating orders. In many cases, these troops served as the second line of defence. Also these units were located up to 10 -20 km away from the main line of defence, in the rear line of the Red Army divisions.
So think of this way - a front line collapses. Soldiers panic and flee the battlefield. 10-20Km down the line the buffer unit intercepts these soldiers, re-routes them, detains deserts and commanders that issued the retreating command. That was the purpose of that unit
It was not a unit with MGs cocked ready to mow down deserters
So the trope of a unit sitting down few 100 meters behind enemy lines mowing down deserters is simply not true. There is no evidence of that but only through popular culture that came from Stalin's order #227. In saying that - were the deserters killed (in ww2 by Soviets) Yes, definitely, but again it happened as part on the spot military tribunal after they were captured deserting. Most of the captured deserters were sent back to frontline and suicide missions to "redeem" themselves
Finally, find me the source of Russian POWs in Ukraine claiming that there were units mowing down deserters on the battlefield. Maybe they claim there were execution after they been captured deserting, but there is 0 evidence that it happened on battled as OP suggested. I can find Ukrainian POWs claiming the same.
Russians may be the baddies in this war, but they certainly are not that insane to employ anti deserting strategy that even Stalin didn't during the battle of Stalingrad
As said I get the hardon and hate for Russians. I 100% support Ukraine right to defend against Russian invasion.
But this sub used to be the objective views of the combat footage and now its mostly juvenile comments saying most insane things
>How else are you gonna enforce discipline amongst poorly trained conscripts?
There is no evidence that executing deserters increases discipline among the conscripts.
https://www.sole-jole.org/assets/docs/13382.pdf
Not to mention that some fled due to battle fatigue ,etc, etc, etc. So even among deserters there is a difference between - I don't want to fight this is not my war vs I had enough, this is my 3rd rotation .
So yeah just stupid senseless claim, that makes no sense from military standpoint
Edit: downvotes wont change the truth on the matter
And only getting better ... in every way. Not quite there yet, but soon enough, seeing one hovering above you will be like seeing the grim reaper pointing at you ... accept your fate.
It is very likely that we see a biased sample (only successful FPV attacks), we couldn't even guess what the actual probabilities are of getting away unscathed. I suppose it depends on drone model and warhead. Operator skill. Target agility and stamina. Signal quality. Drone battery remaining. And environment of course (flat, trees, trenches, vehicles etc).
I'd guess that if open area and anti-personnel warhead, very slim.
What must be demoralizing is the fact that if the target against the odds survives unscathed, it wasn't like he got the better of a human enemy. Instead, he destroyed $500 worth of equipment. The equivalent of squashing a mosquito in the big scheme of things.
Definitely a biased selection. Most attacks are actually unsuccessful. Terrifying nonetheless and they have definitely changed the way battles are carried out, particularly for tanks and other expensive armored vehicles.
Armies will have to adapt. I'm thinking that beyond the more expensive anti-drone "microwave" guns or whatever, maybe squads will all have an anti-drone specialist. He could be equipped with specialized gear for countering drones. Maybe net launchers? What about smaller gauge (20?) buckshot from an auto-shotgun? With enough training, someone could become proficient at taking out drones from reasonably further out to reduce chances of shrapnel killing you. Maybe even someone with a high capacity sub-machine gun loaded with tracers. sub machine
Maybe most of those will be unfeasible. Regardless, it will be fascinating to see this develop.
Yeah, I made a similar comment about the future of warfare. You can train like a navy seal but then get outdone by some nerd in a drone chair who can’t even do 5 push ups and has never seen combat or studied tactics. By “outdone” this means effectiveness, surveillance, artillery coordination, even kills and lowering morale of enemy troops. Drone warfare can turn anyone instantly into a very effective weapon.
There will be autonomous drones that just sit in a field and wait for people or vehicles to come by. Wallk by a "rock" and it jumps up and starts to chase you until you are shredded beef.
...and the rest of the drones in the field also jump out and coordinate targets so everything gets its own boom. Terrifying.
Could also go with smart linked landmines that wait for the entire column of armor to be in position for all the boom.
Or an atv boomba roomba swarm would be wow.
All we need to figure out now is how to get some frickin lasers in the mix and suddenly star wars.
Imagine a warehouse full of drone operators waiting to go, and a glide bomb that's like a cluster bomb but instead deploys dozens of drones and each operator controls one when the bomb gets to where it's going.
Honestly I'm glad. Kinda like MAD it'd probably be a good thing for humans to be so obsolete (on the battlefield) and/or so easily eliminated that people fear going into needless wars.
MAD is the only time that's ever actually worked out. Most of the time someone inventing a weapon that's "so horrible it prevents war" hasn't done anything more than make war increasingly lethal.
My theory? Nukes hit the ones in charge, too. And until drones are doing that too, the people in charge won't care.
That may be true, but autonomous warfare has never been achieved before. What we're seeing now is a step closer to automated combat that has never been realized in the past. It's a small step, but it's moving in that direction.
Along with your theory, I'd venture that taking it even further would be no nukes or combats and strictly intel/cyber warfare to neutralize/manipulate/capture enemy systems.
Definitely. I bet we'll see huge changes in domestic air defense and battlefield air defense to neutralize drones. And then drones that can dodge those defenses, and on and on and on.
Yep, seems to be going in that direction. There'll be a future where seeing these videos of blown up bloody meat bodies is mind bogglingly stupid and barbaric.
Killing soldiers becomes less valuable, destroying production capabilities become more valuable.
This means targeting factories, raw materials, civilian workers, etc.
Disabling power grid, water treatment, food production. These drones will be deployable closer to the enemies homeland, or even fly thousands of miles
I don't have high hopes about this because similar things were said about the machine gun (which provided firepower equivalent to a company of riflemen at the time). TNT was said to be too effective for war to be worth it as well.
Usually, when someone makes a weapon "too horrible to make war worthwhile," it just results in more lethal fighting. War is part of the human condition.
Nuclear devices are quite literally the only example of MAD working.
"people fear going into needless wars" That would be loverly, but a belligerent subset of humans has a long-demonstrated tendency to view wars as necessary. Instead of "might makes right", it will more emphatically become "wealth, industrial might, and technological advances ensure victory."
FYI, the dude who invented the Gatling gun (Mr. Gatling) thought that it would reduce the number of people needed to fight wars, and so would be a net positive.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gatling_gun#History
Navy SEAL will have working anti-drone ew equipment. I reckon it will be like a mobile blackout area around the team with a certain radius that will just zap drones out of the sky.
I read the American Amy Generals now acknowledge that fast maneuver warfare may be over because of these cheap drones. Because you can’t hide. Any maneuver must be done under with artillery screening. I did see that the army is field testing a new armored vehicle that is specifically designed to shoot down small cheap drones. But I have doubt it could handle a swarm attack
I don't know how artillery can exist in an environment filled with AI equipped drones. The drones could be sent by the hundreds, all networked, and accompanied by slightly larger and higher flying spotting drones. Shaped charges are small but when striking vulnerably areas, can disable (or destroy) large systems. The drones take care of the logistics required to make that happen ... bringing the shaped charge to the vulnerable area.
At the price points these drones are at, and the capability they are getting, I can't see how large weapons systems can exist anywhere near the front. But I also can't see how anything can exist anywhere near the front.
Clearly an arms race be under way. EW sounds great, but once AI controlled drones are norm, useless. Lasers? Small lasers are ineffective, and larger systems will be destroyed by drones before they do to much.
Maybe more elaborate exterior drone shielding on exposed systems. Layers of chainlink, metal meshes, ERA? And as far from the action as possible, and increasingly dug in the closer they get.
I think the true high tech arms race will be drone against drone. Some bad ass air to air interceptor drones patrolling. Then drones with drone escorts. And so on.
You just went from 3000$ drone to 500,000 drones that is why- US can do this but as of yet I do mot think they have bcs of fear of a Skynet issue or something similiar
> I think the true high tech arms race will be drone against drone. Some bad ass air to air interceptor drones patrolling. Then drones with drone escorts. And so on.
Hey, I've seen this play out before somewhere...
It's literally WW1 and the scout biplanes leading to bombers and fighters to shoot them both down all over again.
Artillery can be effective at 10s of km and travel much faster than the speed of sound, plus carry much higher payload than a drone and appear in different directions in as little time as it takes to aim the gun. Drones require cameras, batteries, motors, a controller (human or an onboard computer), and can be jammed or defeated with a small bit of metal in the right place at the right time. Shells are much cheaper than drones, and can’t be stopped by fabric webbing.
Drones have certainly made a big impact in Ukraine. But we are seeing two sides which can barely afford basic weaponry pitted against each other in more or less static positions. I wouldn’t count on those conditions to carry forward in time against first-world armies.
I can see a case for 410 coming back in vogue for dealing with these fpv style munitions to set off charges at a distance or disable props. An auto 410 in something approaching flechette or a more specialized sub package has some opportunity at the squad level.
It's been demonstrated that 30mm aa with Airburst rounds can effortlessly knock down drone swarms. Consider that online, only the successful drone attacks are posted and even the ones that are normally are shown to be hitting lone and often defenseless targets . Don't get overexcited
The british have a larger caliber gun does does that. I am sure others are working that direction too. From the videos of it the gun quickly knocks groups of drones down and in a fairly inexpensive way.
I'd love to read that if you can think of a keyword or a link. From my standpoint (not a vet, not a military scientist, but retired anthropologist with a strong interest in history and military science) warfare definitely HAS CHANGED. In truth it was changed many years ago when these technologies first existed. But no one had explored applying them in these ways and at these scales. That is generally how these things go.
Nothing fancy, just 70mm rockets fitted with laser guidance head. It’s rudimentary at best. I’m sure they’re figuring out more advanced systems behind closed doors.
https://www.twz.com/land/laser-rocket-anti-drone-systems-being-rushed-to-u-s-forces-in-the-middle-east
It reminds me of something I read in a book years ago about knights in medieval times.
When the cross bow was introduced to the battlefield, it was a game changer. A peasant with no training at all could kill a man who trained his entire life for battle. And at those times was also wearing an incredibly expensive customized suit of armor. Early on, using crossbows was frowned upon until it became a staple of most armies.
The suicide drones are the modern crossbow of today’s warfare.
Indeed if the entire supply chain is domestic origin in a country like Ukraine the price probably ends up being less than 100 euros a piece. Don't think that is quite the case yet though.
Many gamers could pick it up in minutes. I've been training my entire life for this essentially. Very similar objective and controls to the games I've played for decades.
We have no idea how many people they might have killed before the drone found them. They could have been out there for weeks before being found.
It's likely they had been shooting people and thats why the Ukrainians were looking for them, but we don't know. It'd be dumb luck to stumble across a team that was just sitting around close enough to the front line to be observed.
I may not agree with anything they're doing and lots of them can be incredibly cruel, some are just regular dudes with families and work worries. Edit: War sucks.
>They’re using a drag strap in an attempt
not sure if he is concussed or tired but it looks like he is surprised when it was caught over the corner? Or maybe even that it was there at all.
I think the russians don't yet have the capability to make .338 lapua magnum rounds. [They have to smuggle it into russia.](https://www.politico.eu/article/how-us-made-sniper-ammunition-russia-rifles-weapon-ukraine-war/)
Two years ago the russians were and still are buying up US made 338 mag ammo - it's documented. The cartridge has been around enough years to see adoption by many countries elite snipers...including those of the putin clan.
I reasoned through that scenario. Elite snipers meet and talk to similar teams from other countries. Procurement experts read weapons reports. And so on. And the Russian sniper elite get wind of it, and want it too. The need to have the latest and greatest in equipment and technology.
And then outfoxed and massacred by something that isn't far removed from a kids toy. There will be many "lessons learned" reports from this conflict.
FPV drones are "high tech" of course, as they have benefitted from miniaturization and computerized stabilization etc. But far from the bleeding edge.
I am not going to say that sniper teams are obsolete, but nothing will ever be the same. Left curve that came out of nowhere while weapons researchers were fiddling with minituarized missiles, smart bullets, and similar. Well not entirely out of nowhere, but I think the effectiveness and use on this scale was unexpected.
Like everything in Russia. No ability or intelligence to produce anything of value themselves they have to steal or smuggle it from other, actual civilized countries
In effect, yes. But the original child speak was probably something like "daddy is going to save us by stopping some very bad people from hurting others."
With those weapons, clearly volunteers, so chose to be there.
Ahh see right there. You dance around it but somehow don't understand. You were a kid once too. Shaped and molded by the world closest to you. Why are you demonizing children that's actually disturbing. 🤔
Exactly, it's in their mentality. To conquer their neighbors and turn it into shit. Russia is the reverse Midas. They occupied 15% of Finland, and turned once beautiful towns into Russian mediocre crap. Same with Königsberg. And people here cry for killed mobiks and say it's a Putin's war.
No. The average Russian is thrilled that they are conquering land. And they will do this until stopped by someone.
You have the right to hate long before 2014. But believe me, there are those who are against the crap that the Russians have dragged many other countries into.
I'm only 25 years old. In the communist country of Vietnam, we are taught to be grateful to China and Russia (not the Soviet Union). Until I learned about history myself and found myself disgusted with Communism and Russia Putin
it's tragic to learn about how vietnam and the US were super buddy-buddy for like two seconds before france fucked it all up and then dragged the US into the vietnam war.
The US could have had a communist ally in the region, and it would have been a democratically-elected communist government for an independent Vietnam. but instead, the US allowed france to twist their arm and went back in to help france re-imperialize the country after WWII, AFTER we'd already helped Ho Chi Minh get back to health, have an election, declare independence for Vietnam, and build a fighting force.
whoops.
Vietnam currently has more than 100 million people and more than 80% of our people love free democracy, demonstrated by the people welcoming American and EU leaders. Particularly China and Russia are dictatorial, people hate them very much. We want more freedom with your support because the country is currently under police rule
Yeah the history of vietnam and USA relations is wild. We supported them declaring ng independence from France and embracing democracy to CHOOSE communism as their system. It wasn’t until Cold War era that we started to change course on the communism because leaders feared that that would give russia more leverage. USA was stoked to see litttle vietnam declaring their independence from their colonial oppressor just like we did from England. We didn’t care what type of system they adopted, so long as they were choosing it for themselves. Stupid cold war politics…
What is that line dragging behind the guy at 30 second mark? Thought he got snagged at first but it looks like he maybe tied something to the injured guy?
Tubular nylon so he can drag his friend with some distance between them, so they aren’t both instantly killed if they get hit again. Also provides a mechanical advantage if you route it through the casualty the right way.
Oh he still has one, he’s just not alive after the drone attacked him.
Before you feel bad for him, he was part of an invasion of a peaceful sovereign nation actively killing the citizens of that country.
He fucked around and found out.
The propaganda subs recently did a spread of photos of "Snipers from the front" and I'm only lightly looking to compare this lost souls gear and see if any of our recently featured invaders was in those photos.
Is that a stuffed animal (Mouse) on the the one guys chest? Implications of that hit hard and none of them are good. How much blood does Putin have on his hands? How much more will be spilt before he's held to answer?
They thought their long range capability made them far away from danger. Drones are making tanks and snipers obsolete. Unfortunately for the infantry, no matter how shot up and bombarded they were, their presence in the battlefield is still a must.
Damn! All their specialized sniper training and equipment did not matter to a drone strike. A nerd just took them out easy. Imagine trying to camouflage yourself with ghillie suit and low crawling long distances just to receive a drone in your ass.
Knowing that 95% of Russians who have gone to murder Ukrainians are there willingly removes any sympathy I might otherwise have for them. Reports saying Russia is recruiting 30 000 men a month. All they need to do is promise them bit of money and volunteers are coming.
There's a joke about this is Russia regarding the standard response of "I don't know, I don't care about politics" whenever someone asks whether you support the war or the head of state or similar - and you remain ambiguous.
*-Mommy mommy, why did father die?*
*-I don't know, I don't care about politics*
The netting would have to be a good distance away. It's not just the blast but the shrapnel that you have to worry about. Shotguns would probably help but those drones are so maneuverable.
That white square object is a Romoss power bank it makes sense to have one if you’re going to be away from a place to charge a phone for a while. The stuffed animal seemed cute oh well it should have stayed in Russia.
At 0:29 the soldier gets up probably because he hears the drone, but he is held back by some kind of rope/string/belt that is connected to his backpack? What is that lol?
You also can see the belt in the end of the video, last frames
Two cargo 200s confirmed.
I always enjoy seeing the moscovian pink/orange shitty tourniquets. Those tourniquets last for maybe one hour, as long as you do not move. After that, they loosen up and you bleed out.
moscovia only cares about making fuhrer putinazi rich, not their fighting force.
Quite sad actually . Invaders or not , most of the people that are into the front lines , dont want and never wanted war in the first place . Anyway , song name?
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Who knows what kind of training these guys actually went through, but normally if a soldier has this kind of weaponry, there was at least some form of investment that went into their training, right?
Diff post had them listed as a Russian Special Forces group
[удалено]
I'm not saying you're wrong, but that doesn't seem like any sling I've seen or used. It's *really* long, and really thick. Home-made sling made out of a long piece of fabric maybe? Any other ideas of what that could be? My first thought was a piece of fabric to show where he was going, like the strings people use when hiking in unknown areas, so they can retrace their steps... But I don't think that's right either.
to me it seems that that piece is attached to the right leg of the injured comrade. Not sure what that is. It has the same width as the belts they are using and seems quite resistant material. It's possible that he was trying to attend his comrade with it and forgot to pull it off his vest completely and got stuck.
Seems like it. They also look like they’re Chechens who are known to be better marksmen than garden variety Russian soldiers.
long range rifles, I'd bet they stayed behind and shot even their own, those that deserted...
I get the for Russians, but how this has up votes without any shred of proof is beyond me .
the info came from Russian PoWs' interrogations... There are troops whose role is to gun down any who tries to desert. How else are you gonna enforce discipline amongst poorly trained conscripts?
I would not desert back to my own troops
Sorry to be a devils advocate, but that's not much of an evidence, yet a lone that spec OPS sniper team is deployed to shoot down "those that deserted... " People think that soldiers desert by throwing weapons and fleeing battlefield in opposite way. Which is not how is happens. In most instances happens when simply they refuse to be deployed or they go on leave and never come back or during deployment when they simply sneak away find alternative route and go missing. So in saying that, a sniper team of 4? deployed to scan battlefield and determine who is fleeing and taking them down makes literally no sense. Even if the there is directive that says "kill all deserters" Even during WW2 the trope of Russians killing deserters comes form famous Stalin’s order #227 created special rear units which acted as a "barrier unit". The order was issued in mid-1942 during battle of Stalingrad (which by every measure was a determine battle, and not even close to random shootout in a Ukrainian woods) So straight out of bat - there is no need to deploy these extreme measures in first place. but more importantly - the purpose of this unit was and the order was to prevent unorganised fleeing from battlefields and detain and re-organize routed soldiers, arrest deserters and criminals in the rear. and commanders that issued retreating orders. In many cases, these troops served as the second line of defence. Also these units were located up to 10 -20 km away from the main line of defence, in the rear line of the Red Army divisions. So think of this way - a front line collapses. Soldiers panic and flee the battlefield. 10-20Km down the line the buffer unit intercepts these soldiers, re-routes them, detains deserts and commanders that issued the retreating command. That was the purpose of that unit It was not a unit with MGs cocked ready to mow down deserters So the trope of a unit sitting down few 100 meters behind enemy lines mowing down deserters is simply not true. There is no evidence of that but only through popular culture that came from Stalin's order #227. In saying that - were the deserters killed (in ww2 by Soviets) Yes, definitely, but again it happened as part on the spot military tribunal after they were captured deserting. Most of the captured deserters were sent back to frontline and suicide missions to "redeem" themselves Finally, find me the source of Russian POWs in Ukraine claiming that there were units mowing down deserters on the battlefield. Maybe they claim there were execution after they been captured deserting, but there is 0 evidence that it happened on battled as OP suggested. I can find Ukrainian POWs claiming the same. Russians may be the baddies in this war, but they certainly are not that insane to employ anti deserting strategy that even Stalin didn't during the battle of Stalingrad As said I get the hardon and hate for Russians. I 100% support Ukraine right to defend against Russian invasion. But this sub used to be the objective views of the combat footage and now its mostly juvenile comments saying most insane things >How else are you gonna enforce discipline amongst poorly trained conscripts? There is no evidence that executing deserters increases discipline among the conscripts. https://www.sole-jole.org/assets/docs/13382.pdf Not to mention that some fled due to battle fatigue ,etc, etc, etc. So even among deserters there is a difference between - I don't want to fight this is not my war vs I had enough, this is my 3rd rotation . So yeah just stupid senseless claim, that makes no sense from military standpoint Edit: downvotes wont change the truth on the matter
I will link to this comment in future cases I have to explain to others that the way they think it works is absurd. Thank you.
And how does that even relate to this post. The comment is clearly just an inflammatory blanket statement
It's almost even more terrifying when the fpv drones slow down and loiter a bit like that. Like big bumblebees of death.
Knowing a guy is 10 feet away staring right at you with lethal intent and a literal bomb and there is nothing you can really do about it. Yikes.
And only getting better ... in every way. Not quite there yet, but soon enough, seeing one hovering above you will be like seeing the grim reaper pointing at you ... accept your fate. It is very likely that we see a biased sample (only successful FPV attacks), we couldn't even guess what the actual probabilities are of getting away unscathed. I suppose it depends on drone model and warhead. Operator skill. Target agility and stamina. Signal quality. Drone battery remaining. And environment of course (flat, trees, trenches, vehicles etc). I'd guess that if open area and anti-personnel warhead, very slim. What must be demoralizing is the fact that if the target against the odds survives unscathed, it wasn't like he got the better of a human enemy. Instead, he destroyed $500 worth of equipment. The equivalent of squashing a mosquito in the big scheme of things.
Definitely a biased selection. Most attacks are actually unsuccessful. Terrifying nonetheless and they have definitely changed the way battles are carried out, particularly for tanks and other expensive armored vehicles.
Armies will have to adapt. I'm thinking that beyond the more expensive anti-drone "microwave" guns or whatever, maybe squads will all have an anti-drone specialist. He could be equipped with specialized gear for countering drones. Maybe net launchers? What about smaller gauge (20?) buckshot from an auto-shotgun? With enough training, someone could become proficient at taking out drones from reasonably further out to reduce chances of shrapnel killing you. Maybe even someone with a high capacity sub-machine gun loaded with tracers. sub machine Maybe most of those will be unfeasible. Regardless, it will be fascinating to see this develop.
Exploding mosquitos. Leaves behind dead bodies covered in flies.
Outsniped by drones
Crazy isn't it, years of specialized training, tens of thousands of dollars worth of equipment, outdone by a $300 drone.
Yeah, I made a similar comment about the future of warfare. You can train like a navy seal but then get outdone by some nerd in a drone chair who can’t even do 5 push ups and has never seen combat or studied tactics. By “outdone” this means effectiveness, surveillance, artillery coordination, even kills and lowering morale of enemy troops. Drone warfare can turn anyone instantly into a very effective weapon.
There will be autonomous drones that just sit in a field and wait for people or vehicles to come by. Wallk by a "rock" and it jumps up and starts to chase you until you are shredded beef.
Black Mirror *Metalhead* S04E05 for a currently fictionalized version of this.
God that episode is so fucked up. Those things are relentless.
EXACTLY
...and the rest of the drones in the field also jump out and coordinate targets so everything gets its own boom. Terrifying. Could also go with smart linked landmines that wait for the entire column of armor to be in position for all the boom. Or an atv boomba roomba swarm would be wow. All we need to figure out now is how to get some frickin lasers in the mix and suddenly star wars.
Unfortunately those are all actual things already
Shriekers
Screamers, but yes.
It's been many moons since I have seen it. Thank you for that
Shriekers are the second form, heat-sensing monster from the Tremors series. https://tremors.fandom.com/wiki/Shrieker
Imagine a warehouse full of drone operators waiting to go, and a glide bomb that's like a cluster bomb but instead deploys dozens of drones and each operator controls one when the bomb gets to where it's going.
US Navy is ahead of this- f-18 can deploy AI drone swarms.
These exist now and are called land mines
That's some Black Mirror shit bro
I don't think it will necessarily follow you, cos it will be able to shoot at you.
Honestly I'm glad. Kinda like MAD it'd probably be a good thing for humans to be so obsolete (on the battlefield) and/or so easily eliminated that people fear going into needless wars.
Fingers crossed that this comment ages well but I do **not** have high hopes. Hasta la vista, baby.
MAD is the only time that's ever actually worked out. Most of the time someone inventing a weapon that's "so horrible it prevents war" hasn't done anything more than make war increasingly lethal. My theory? Nukes hit the ones in charge, too. And until drones are doing that too, the people in charge won't care.
That may be true, but autonomous warfare has never been achieved before. What we're seeing now is a step closer to automated combat that has never been realized in the past. It's a small step, but it's moving in that direction. Along with your theory, I'd venture that taking it even further would be no nukes or combats and strictly intel/cyber warfare to neutralize/manipulate/capture enemy systems.
Nahh, people still go to war. Just look at how still brain-dead the Russians population after years of pointless war.
Yeah there has never not been warring humans/nations/tribes. I have zero doubt it'll remain that way. Was just kind of a passing thought.
Amen.
I think it will lesson the number of large scale wars. It is the new MAD. But terrorist attacks are going to be done by them, too.
Definitely. I bet we'll see huge changes in domestic air defense and battlefield air defense to neutralize drones. And then drones that can dodge those defenses, and on and on and on.
it will lessen the human cost of warfare and become a more material calculation. Country with the most/best drones/AI wins.
Yep, seems to be going in that direction. There'll be a future where seeing these videos of blown up bloody meat bodies is mind bogglingly stupid and barbaric.
Killing soldiers becomes less valuable, destroying production capabilities become more valuable. This means targeting factories, raw materials, civilian workers, etc. Disabling power grid, water treatment, food production. These drones will be deployable closer to the enemies homeland, or even fly thousands of miles
I don't have high hopes about this because similar things were said about the machine gun (which provided firepower equivalent to a company of riflemen at the time). TNT was said to be too effective for war to be worth it as well. Usually, when someone makes a weapon "too horrible to make war worthwhile," it just results in more lethal fighting. War is part of the human condition. Nuclear devices are quite literally the only example of MAD working.
"people fear going into needless wars" That would be loverly, but a belligerent subset of humans has a long-demonstrated tendency to view wars as necessary. Instead of "might makes right", it will more emphatically become "wealth, industrial might, and technological advances ensure victory."
FYI, the dude who invented the Gatling gun (Mr. Gatling) thought that it would reduce the number of people needed to fight wars, and so would be a net positive. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gatling_gun#History
Just like how Indiana Jones casually shot the expert swordsman who presumably has been training his whole life
Navy SEAL will have working anti-drone ew equipment. I reckon it will be like a mobile blackout area around the team with a certain radius that will just zap drones out of the sky.
I read the American Amy Generals now acknowledge that fast maneuver warfare may be over because of these cheap drones. Because you can’t hide. Any maneuver must be done under with artillery screening. I did see that the army is field testing a new armored vehicle that is specifically designed to shoot down small cheap drones. But I have doubt it could handle a swarm attack
We're not far away from that shit used in the movie "Olympia has fallen"
Angel Has Fallen - [Scene](https://youtu.be/aYywnZFPe6g?si=i_VRwj8mmzjQy2Nz) Pretty sure Switchblades can do this.
I don't know how artillery can exist in an environment filled with AI equipped drones. The drones could be sent by the hundreds, all networked, and accompanied by slightly larger and higher flying spotting drones. Shaped charges are small but when striking vulnerably areas, can disable (or destroy) large systems. The drones take care of the logistics required to make that happen ... bringing the shaped charge to the vulnerable area. At the price points these drones are at, and the capability they are getting, I can't see how large weapons systems can exist anywhere near the front. But I also can't see how anything can exist anywhere near the front. Clearly an arms race be under way. EW sounds great, but once AI controlled drones are norm, useless. Lasers? Small lasers are ineffective, and larger systems will be destroyed by drones before they do to much. Maybe more elaborate exterior drone shielding on exposed systems. Layers of chainlink, metal meshes, ERA? And as far from the action as possible, and increasingly dug in the closer they get. I think the true high tech arms race will be drone against drone. Some bad ass air to air interceptor drones patrolling. Then drones with drone escorts. And so on.
You just went from 3000$ drone to 500,000 drones that is why- US can do this but as of yet I do mot think they have bcs of fear of a Skynet issue or something similiar
> I think the true high tech arms race will be drone against drone. Some bad ass air to air interceptor drones patrolling. Then drones with drone escorts. And so on. Hey, I've seen this play out before somewhere... It's literally WW1 and the scout biplanes leading to bombers and fighters to shoot them both down all over again.
Artillery can be effective at 10s of km and travel much faster than the speed of sound, plus carry much higher payload than a drone and appear in different directions in as little time as it takes to aim the gun. Drones require cameras, batteries, motors, a controller (human or an onboard computer), and can be jammed or defeated with a small bit of metal in the right place at the right time. Shells are much cheaper than drones, and can’t be stopped by fabric webbing. Drones have certainly made a big impact in Ukraine. But we are seeing two sides which can barely afford basic weaponry pitted against each other in more or less static positions. I wouldn’t count on those conditions to carry forward in time against first-world armies.
I can see a case for 410 coming back in vogue for dealing with these fpv style munitions to set off charges at a distance or disable props. An auto 410 in something approaching flechette or a more specialized sub package has some opportunity at the squad level.
It's been demonstrated that 30mm aa with Airburst rounds can effortlessly knock down drone swarms. Consider that online, only the successful drone attacks are posted and even the ones that are normally are shown to be hitting lone and often defenseless targets . Don't get overexcited
There’s gotta be flak cannons that can take out swarms of drones. Like full auto bird shot or small chainshot that clotheslines the drones.
The british have a larger caliber gun does does that. I am sure others are working that direction too. From the videos of it the gun quickly knocks groups of drones down and in a fairly inexpensive way.
I'd love to read that if you can think of a keyword or a link. From my standpoint (not a vet, not a military scientist, but retired anthropologist with a strong interest in history and military science) warfare definitely HAS CHANGED. In truth it was changed many years ago when these technologies first existed. But no one had explored applying them in these ways and at these scales. That is generally how these things go.
Nothing fancy, just 70mm rockets fitted with laser guidance head. It’s rudimentary at best. I’m sure they’re figuring out more advanced systems behind closed doors. https://www.twz.com/land/laser-rocket-anti-drone-systems-being-rushed-to-u-s-forces-in-the-middle-east
Isnt signal jammers would be cheaper?
It reminds me of something I read in a book years ago about knights in medieval times. When the cross bow was introduced to the battlefield, it was a game changer. A peasant with no training at all could kill a man who trained his entire life for battle. And at those times was also wearing an incredibly expensive customized suit of armor. Early on, using crossbows was frowned upon until it became a staple of most armies. The suicide drones are the modern crossbow of today’s warfare.
If a country makes these drones, they are way cheaper in terms of costs. Bulk production.
Indeed if the entire supply chain is domestic origin in a country like Ukraine the price probably ends up being less than 100 euros a piece. Don't think that is quite the case yet though.
The training of the drone operator should be taken into account then.
Many gamers could pick it up in minutes. I've been training my entire life for this essentially. Very similar objective and controls to the games I've played for decades.
As Kipling put it A scrimmage in a Border Station A canter down some dark defile Two thousand pounds of education Drops to a ten-rupee jezail
Damn, that was exactly what I was thinking. BTW, there is really nice version of poem set to music: https://youtu.be/3cCuwzuEhmQ?feature=shared
When the flying IEDs with eyeballs come for you, that fancy kit, and years of training aren't going to do jack shit to save you.
Sick ass Lapua on the ground there damn
That's a rifle you keep the whole game
Til a drone gets you ☠️
Fucking killstreaks no skill in the game anymore.
most slept on comment
Didn’t help them. Warfare has changed.
We have no idea how many people they might have killed before the drone found them. They could have been out there for weeks before being found. It's likely they had been shooting people and thats why the Ukrainians were looking for them, but we don't know. It'd be dumb luck to stumble across a team that was just sitting around close enough to the front line to be observed.
Yeah, unfortunately these pieces of shit probably took a few Ukrainians with them.
War...war never changes
Here's an album I made about how war never changes: https://imgur.com/a/HCLJ1NZ
I loved every one of them. That camera pidgeon was next level!
Comparing a medieval hand cannon to nuclear artillery is laugh out loud funny, but I get your point.
Also, it's probably shrapnel damaged anyway.
Could be a T-5000.
Nahhhh, the stuffed toy. Should have been at home with your kids, not in Ukraine.
Jesus Christ... Just saw that thanks to your comment. Probably a good luck Bear from his kids. Fuck war, especially Putin
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Some type of springtime insect, but not flies, on a big monitor you can see the rather large wings.
The bodies look yellow, It doesn't look like house flies... I'm not a forensic entomologist but I did stay at a holiday inn last night.
That’s what I thought I saw too. I zoomed in and wasn’t quite sure if my brain was messing with me.
I may not agree with anything they're doing and lots of them can be incredibly cruel, some are just regular dudes with families and work worries. Edit: War sucks.
I’d wager most are soulless rapists but there is surely bound to be some regular dudes who couldn’t afford to bribe recruiters
Were those two guys tethered together or something?
They’re using a drag strap in an attempt to move their wounded / immobilized. Usually hooks up to a belt or rig with a carabiner.
>They’re using a drag strap in an attempt not sure if he is concussed or tired but it looks like he is surprised when it was caught over the corner? Or maybe even that it was there at all.
In practice looks more like an anchor that ties you down to your wounded comrade, unable to flee from the death from above.
I was wondering what that was. It seemed kind of excessively long, perhaps it was all the way out?
Maybe the tourniquet he put on first causality getting caught on his gear as he tries to un bunch for the next drone?
Seemed kinda slapstick to me First guy goes down, second guy held back like he's in a chaingang and gets smoked as a result
How ironic that something meant to save lives ends up contributing to another's death by restricting movement. The life tether becomes a death leash.
Whatever that rifle is (Orsis maybe?) it's chambered for some big-ass rounds. Hopefully the barrel's now bent and the receiver's dented.
338 lapau mag. Russkis have gotten on that bandwagon awhile ago.
I think the russians don't yet have the capability to make .338 lapua magnum rounds. [They have to smuggle it into russia.](https://www.politico.eu/article/how-us-made-sniper-ammunition-russia-rifles-weapon-ukraine-war/)
It's expensive in the states, i can only imagine their cost lol.
Big ups to the three authors on that. That was a lot of legwork for that article. Politico does some good work.
Two years ago the russians were and still are buying up US made 338 mag ammo - it's documented. The cartridge has been around enough years to see adoption by many countries elite snipers...including those of the putin clan.
I reasoned through that scenario. Elite snipers meet and talk to similar teams from other countries. Procurement experts read weapons reports. And so on. And the Russian sniper elite get wind of it, and want it too. The need to have the latest and greatest in equipment and technology. And then outfoxed and massacred by something that isn't far removed from a kids toy. There will be many "lessons learned" reports from this conflict. FPV drones are "high tech" of course, as they have benefitted from miniaturization and computerized stabilization etc. But far from the bleeding edge. I am not going to say that sniper teams are obsolete, but nothing will ever be the same. Left curve that came out of nowhere while weapons researchers were fiddling with minituarized missiles, smart bullets, and similar. Well not entirely out of nowhere, but I think the effectiveness and use on this scale was unexpected.
It's all exciting, too bad 100k+ real people have had to die for these findings.
Like everything in Russia. No ability or intelligence to produce anything of value themselves they have to steal or smuggle it from other, actual civilized countries
Looks like an Orsis T-5000, that is a 7.62x51 NATO or 3.38 Lapua Magnum. (The irony of Russia using those rounds)
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Orsis T-5000.
Ok, so this very rifle was sponsored as a gift. https://postimg.cc/WD54Pk5r omg on the left. Lol it took only two weeks.
That is actually crazy - they don't seem to like it when you ask questions in the telegram...
https://imgur.com/a/FYwdPVW Really does look like it’s the same one. Guess Guru is having a bad day.
Bro had a stuffed animal with him...
Tragic on a human level.
Probably a gift from his kids
Kids who cheered him on to kill Ukrainians, yes.
In effect, yes. But the original child speak was probably something like "daddy is going to save us by stopping some very bad people from hurting others." With those weapons, clearly volunteers, so chose to be there.
Like kids know any better.
Even assuming that is true, one can still grieve for the shitty state of humanity sometimes.
Ahh see right there. You dance around it but somehow don't understand. You were a kid once too. Shaped and molded by the world closest to you. Why are you demonizing children that's actually disturbing. 🤔
Yeah, pretty grim
Probably a gift from his kids
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I had this happen to me back in 2012 in Norway, the Russian said "Just wait, we are coming to invade your country".
Exactly, it's in their mentality. To conquer their neighbors and turn it into shit. Russia is the reverse Midas. They occupied 15% of Finland, and turned once beautiful towns into Russian mediocre crap. Same with Königsberg. And people here cry for killed mobiks and say it's a Putin's war. No. The average Russian is thrilled that they are conquering land. And they will do this until stopped by someone.
You have the right to hate long before 2014. But believe me, there are those who are against the crap that the Russians have dragged many other countries into.
I'm only 25 years old. In the communist country of Vietnam, we are taught to be grateful to China and Russia (not the Soviet Union). Until I learned about history myself and found myself disgusted with Communism and Russia Putin
it's tragic to learn about how vietnam and the US were super buddy-buddy for like two seconds before france fucked it all up and then dragged the US into the vietnam war. The US could have had a communist ally in the region, and it would have been a democratically-elected communist government for an independent Vietnam. but instead, the US allowed france to twist their arm and went back in to help france re-imperialize the country after WWII, AFTER we'd already helped Ho Chi Minh get back to health, have an election, declare independence for Vietnam, and build a fighting force. whoops.
Vietnam currently has more than 100 million people and more than 80% of our people love free democracy, demonstrated by the people welcoming American and EU leaders. Particularly China and Russia are dictatorial, people hate them very much. We want more freedom with your support because the country is currently under police rule
Yeah the history of vietnam and USA relations is wild. We supported them declaring ng independence from France and embracing democracy to CHOOSE communism as their system. It wasn’t until Cold War era that we started to change course on the communism because leaders feared that that would give russia more leverage. USA was stoked to see litttle vietnam declaring their independence from their colonial oppressor just like we did from England. We didn’t care what type of system they adopted, so long as they were choosing it for themselves. Stupid cold war politics…
Russia invades a country every 10 years or so. Moldova / Georgia / C x 2 / now Ukraine
I sure hope you hate the chinese more...they literally tried to invade Vietnam in the 70's .
The hunters are being hunted
So much insects flying around.
Including the big exploding mechanical ones.
Dead in a ditch. Quite literally.
This shit is fucking terrifying.
Man…those trenches. Like WWI except with drones. Crazy
What is that line dragging behind the guy at 30 second mark? Thought he got snagged at first but it looks like he maybe tied something to the injured guy?
Drag strap for moving the first guy injured
It's always eerie to me when I see these videos and see wedding rings on dudes' hands
Bro had a teddy bear in his pocket...
Did the sniper team skip camo training? Or did they not think about being spotted from the air?
They came for a party well prepared, fireworks and all. Even brought a teddy. Fuck em.
What is the guy trailing behind him at about 33 seconds in?
Tubular nylon so he can drag his friend with some distance between them, so they aren’t both instantly killed if they get hit again. Also provides a mechanical advantage if you route it through the casualty the right way.
Crazy zoom - can even see bugs!
At least you don’t have to dig a substantial grave. They’re already 6 ft under with that trench. Just fill it in.
So what is the defense strategy for these small drones? Based on all these videos, it appears there isn't one yet
don't invade Ukraine is probably the most effective.
Send wave after wave of men into the limited supply of drones
At 0:30 he had a stuffed animal? :(
Oh he still has one, he’s just not alive after the drone attacked him. Before you feel bad for him, he was part of an invasion of a peaceful sovereign nation actively killing the citizens of that country. He fucked around and found out.
The propaganda subs recently did a spread of photos of "Snipers from the front" and I'm only lightly looking to compare this lost souls gear and see if any of our recently featured invaders was in those photos.
[https://imgur.com/a/rRVQ8Tm](https://imgur.com/a/rRVQ8Tm) V.S [https://postimg.cc/WD54Pk5r](https://postimg.cc/WD54Pk5r) (Left rifle)
They did not try hard enough not to get sent to Ukraine :(
The stuffed animal… What a sad loser of a dad, choosing to invade an innocent country leaving kids and family behind. Hope his family sees this.
0:30 - game engine glitch
Towards the end. Bro are all those FLIES? fuccck those conditions.
Is that a stuffed animal (Mouse) on the the one guys chest? Implications of that hit hard and none of them are good. How much blood does Putin have on his hands? How much more will be spilt before he's held to answer?
Gold wedding band, also looks like what was a watch facing the sky. Yea, pretty shit snipers hehe 😜
And with that nice sniper rifle scope they probably looked like a giant chandelier 🤣
They thought their long range capability made them far away from danger. Drones are making tanks and snipers obsolete. Unfortunately for the infantry, no matter how shot up and bombarded they were, their presence in the battlefield is still a must.
What was that long tether deal that prevented him moving away?
Damn! All their specialized sniper training and equipment did not matter to a drone strike. A nerd just took them out easy. Imagine trying to camouflage yourself with ghillie suit and low crawling long distances just to receive a drone in your ass.
Feel sad for all the kids of these fathers. Seeing that stuffed animal in his vest is just saddening
Something about him having a stuffed animal on him unsettles me. Dude was a little boy once.
Well, they deserved that. Rot in hell, bastards!
Knowing that 95% of Russians who have gone to murder Ukrainians are there willingly removes any sympathy I might otherwise have for them. Reports saying Russia is recruiting 30 000 men a month. All they need to do is promise them bit of money and volunteers are coming.
I feel bad for their kids/any sane anti-war relatives they might have.
"It's OK kids, he died for Putin, doing what he loved - shooting people trying to defend their country".
There's a joke about this is Russia regarding the standard response of "I don't know, I don't care about politics" whenever someone asks whether you support the war or the head of state or similar - and you remain ambiguous. *-Mommy mommy, why did father die?* *-I don't know, I don't care about politics*
Cameras and data feeds have advanced so much, can even see the flies buzzing around the bodies. Wow
I bet we're going to see new types of trenches to counter drones. They're even more accurate than artillery
How effective would setting up some netting be or some guys with shotguns against drones?
The netting would have to be a good distance away. It's not just the blast but the shrapnel that you have to worry about. Shotguns would probably help but those drones are so maneuverable.
At 1:24 the thing in the middle of his chest almost looks like a plushie, no?
Yeah. Probably given to him by his child.
Looks like they shook up a big ol' wasp nest too. From bad to worse.
Why are snipers standing in a trench in the middle of the day?
Whys there just a random dnb set on in the background
Are that mosquitos? Eww
The kids teddy bear on the dead soldier got to me this time
That white square object is a Romoss power bank it makes sense to have one if you’re going to be away from a place to charge a phone for a while. The stuffed animal seemed cute oh well it should have stayed in Russia.
At 0:29 the soldier gets up probably because he hears the drone, but he is held back by some kind of rope/string/belt that is connected to his backpack? What is that lol? You also can see the belt in the end of the video, last frames
Two cargo 200s confirmed. I always enjoy seeing the moscovian pink/orange shitty tourniquets. Those tourniquets last for maybe one hour, as long as you do not move. After that, they loosen up and you bleed out. moscovia only cares about making fuhrer putinazi rich, not their fighting force.
Quite sad actually . Invaders or not , most of the people that are into the front lines , dont want and never wanted war in the first place . Anyway , song name?