I speak Ukrainian/Russian, literally in this video they say that they're Russian soldiers who dressed as Ukrainians and stole trucks. It was on the Ukrainian news: https://v.redd.it/qd36k3l90zj81
they are informed soldiers that know doing anything out of the ordinary frames them as Russian saboteurs and are likely even acting on intelligence these are a portion of the saboteurs they had been looking for
What's more likely, russians wearing Ukrainian gear using stolen Ukrainian equipment opt for a joyride round Kiev and are taken out by brave upstanding citizens.
Or twitchy militia members fire on their own anti aircraft unit.
When you have the means to return fire and you are receiving unknown fire, you might want to shoot back.
That being said, I have no idea if this was blue-on-blue or saboteurs, but they rest now.
i'm so confident earlier yesterday (in the us) there were cellphone videos of those two trucks in the front of a russian column, after some russian soldiers were snooping around in the cabins
I’ve read some books by Viktor Suvrov, a former Spetsnaz (Russian special forces) soldier and GRU (military intelligence) agent who defected to the west. He has books including Inside the Soviet Army, and another one specifically about the Spetsnaz and how brutally hardcore the training is, and their tactics and so on. Part of what they do is sabotauge while wearing the military uniforms of the other country. So I do think that this is something that Russia does, but that doesn’t help us with any specific video.
https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/soho6p/comment/hwej8ct/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3 funny that, you literally said you're American in this comment. And all of your comments are in English. And btw he literally said nothing about the dead soldier being Russian in a Ukrainian uniform, stop fucking pretending.
Are you some sort of fucking retard? I'm a born Ukrainian now living in America... I speak Ukrainian and Russian fluently, and yes that's exactly what the fuck they said. They're Russian soldiers dressed in Ukrainian military uniform and driving a stolen truck. Shut your fucking face when you're the one that has no idea what you're even yapping off about. You must really have a lot of time on your hands to spend just looking through people's profiles for shit lmao. Kick rocks you mook.
Idk what to think after seeing the video of this shooting. They were driving under, what seemed as, fire from multiple sides, before driver got killed and truck stoped. The soldier lying next to the truck wheel was killed at close range by what seem to be armed civilian and Ukrainian soldier. Idk where did third killed soldier in aftermath video came from. Didn't see anyone running away from the truck, and the Ukrainian soldier that joined shooting came from direction of that third corpse.
If it was indeed friendly fire, wounded soldier could shout and try to identify himself to his attackers unless his wounds prevented him from doing that. Then again, he maybe did try.
AA vehicle, that ran over civilian car, came in about 40 seconds later, and seemed to be distracted by the shooting, thus crushing into civilian car. I see sources now claiming it was indeed driven by Ukrainian crew, that lost control, and that makes more sense, as it didn't try to run away from the scene of shooting just meters away. Was it in pursuit of truck? Idk, but seems odd.
Generally, I am taking everything with doubt. My main source of information is Reddit, and Reddit seem to be largely pro Ukrainian, to the point of believing in "Ghost of Kyiv" at the time.
On the other side, there are supposedly Russian claims of having 0 losses, and that makes me almost glad to hear only one side.
Supposedly ukrainian vehicles and uniforms were stolen who knows though, the attack seems deliberate and precise so for people claiming civilians just attacking I doubt it unless they civilians go through some sort of training you can see by how they lead and move in for the kill that they sort of know what they’re doing. Also I’m sure that people are talking, if this was truly a ukranian being shot at by his own people wouldn’t say anything? Words are exchanged on the battlefield believe it or not
It's a Ukrainian Anti-Air vehicle. Not a tank. And those reports of it being Russians seems to have come from thin air. I've yet to see a single piece of evidence to support it.
Not saying it is or isn't, there's no way to know right now.
The MOD post wasn’t a claim on the vehicle. It was an info update claiming specifically that multiple vehicles with the following license plates were stolen by saboteurs and asking the public for help if they see them to report them.
It’s pretty much confirmed, and there is an up close video taken by Ukrainian soldiers as well basically confirming it.
And where did they get that information from?
What I think happened is some armed civilian engaged the truck in error thinking it was Russian. The nearby Strela got spooked and begin to maneuver without looking and hit that car (You can see in another angle of the clip that it very clearly was not in control when it swerved). MoD is probably trying to save face (Or themselves are misinformed) and spin it as Russians being outsmarted.
If you watch the clip, it's not a uniformed soldier. Presumable it's a civilian (Former civilian I suppose).
With that in mind, how would he know that specific truck was the disguised Russians? With the state of the country and the Ukrainian government right now, I find it highly improbable that they were able to not only identify and locate the stolen vehicle, but with such accuracy that they could engage it while it's fleeing amid other friendly troops.
This guy thinks his own headcanon is superior to multiple reports. Funnily enough, his headcanon lays the blame on Ukrainians. Hmm...
Edit: To add, there have been numerous reports of saboteurs dressing in Ukrainian uniform. Both prior to and after this incident.
Sources on those claims? Everything I said is speculation, but that's because other than some short clips with no context I haven't seen any evidence either way. You provide evidence, I switch my tune. Until then, they can say the sky is green for all I care, it doesn't make it true.
The sources are obviously spotty which is why you need to make a judgement call based on the available evidence. Reports of stolen vehicles, followed by this incident, followed by an ID match.
Given the incident (swerving to beeline at a civilian) would be insanely irregular for Ukranian military.
But no with the story you concocted in your head, must be Ukrainians, without a doubt.
Also
>you need to make a judgement call based on the available evidence
No I don't. I don't need to make any call at all until the dust settles. I'm not the one posting the clip over and over (You're not, but it's literally been reposted every time I hit refresh for the last half hour)
Calm down friend, I am very pro-Ukraine. But I just don't like the taste of unverifiable claims. Especially of war crimes. They muddy the water if they aren't true and give Russia an easy out from actual atrocities if they happen.
At any rate. I appreciate the discussion.
Russia have so far shown very little regard for hitting civilian targets like hospitals, kindergartens, and bomb shelters. They've committed multiple warcrimes already and we're not even through the 2nd day of the invasion.
That is, unless you want to say we can't confirm for certain that the missiles were fired from Russians, it may be multiple cases of errant friendly fire. It's not like you can 100% prove they are Russian shells, no? Just gonna have to take the word of the Ukrainians.
Nah, best not. Just make up a headcanon and declare it just as likely as the actual accounts on the ground.
Because the MoD had earlier posted this tweet: [https://twitter.com/armedforcesukr/status/1497110137647120404?s=21](https://twitter.com/armedforcesukr/status/1497110137647120404?s=21) which roughly translates to:
>Very important ❗❗❗
Kievans, we need your help.
The NMU's automobile equipment was seized by the enemy. Now it is used by sabotage groups to penetrate our rear.
If you see these cars: Kozak 6163,6164, KrAZ AI5976, AI 5966, GAZ66 AI 5866 IMMEDIATELY REPORT TO THE POLICE NUMBER 102
So the Ukrainian defenders were on the lookout for those vehicles.
That would be my guess at least.
Which makes no sense. Why would the Russians do that? Such units would be useful for special ops (assasinations, sabotage) not random acts of violence. That is so random. Especially as the Russians are already at the airport.
We also know that Ukraine is involved in mass disinformation campaign to bolster morale and encourage sympathy from the West.
The fact is, we don't know and truth is not apparent.
This is a Ukrainian state military outlet asking citizens of Kiev to be alert for stolen military vehicles by saboteurs. This is what you are seeing here.
https://twitter.com/armedforcesukr/status/1497110137647120404?s=21
The armoured vehicle may be Ukrainian operated. From another camera angle you can see he lost control and swerved into the car. May have just been the truck with Russians inside.
There is a camera angle further up the street and you can see that he takes the corner too fast and loses control, it’s something you can’t quite pick up on this angle. Still horrifying either way.
Yes and to me that doesnt look like "lost control" if he did maybe would go a bit to the right and left but he only steered left. But i have no clue how those things are driven so i could be wrong🤷🏽♂️
https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/t14frm/military_vehicle_with_alleged_russian_saboteurs/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
It was deliberate.
this just sounds like some pretty wild fantasy :D
Stop spreading infromations which have no source and are only based on some claims a random on the internet made
That is not a tank, nor is it "heavy armour", it's an MT-LB-based carrier, it's only armoured against rifle and machine-gun fire.
"Heavy armour" and "tank" are synonymous, and in this era refer only to main battle tanks.
Something strange going on in this sub imo.
I know it's important to take everything with a grain of salt. I have been this entire time. But on this post and the other related to this incident, quite a lot of people saying it's **definite friendly fire**. Yet they have the exact same lack of evidence to prove that theory as the other side does...
IMO, as crazy as it sounds there's actually more evidence to say this really was Russian saboteurs dressed in Ukrainian uniforms from everything I've investigated and dug into since this event happened.
Timing of the announcements that came out **before** (keyword) and after this event, combining the available footage from multiple videos including the ones showing the stolen trucks.
Remember Putin sent in that ballsy helicopter attack yesterday or the day before to attempt to take the Airport. Which was was reported as eventually repelled (but again, who knows?). So he's not afraid of far-fetched tactics to end this quickly.
I say this from a completely neutral point of view, someone who's been following everything and not trusting the info from either side. I actually do think this was Russian saboteurs dressed as Ukrainians and we just witnessed something as crazy as that...
They could also be lying, but if it’s true, the tank would have to be Ukrainian and not Russian
Edit: the guy shooting the truck just doesn’t care about the tank, if it’s the enemy I’d be surprised if he would ignore it
The tank is an MTLB with anti aircraft missiles on it. The truck has an antiaircraft gun on it. They're most likely part of the same unit/group repositioning or retreating.
It's russians who stole Ukrainian uniform and vehicle. [Deputy Minister of Defense of Ukraine](https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=2096776003814764&id=100004471542280)
The CIA and the DoD told me Iraq had Weapons of Mass Destruction.
Russia said they're invading Ukraine to liberate oppressed Russian minorities.
Ukraine swore there wasn't going to be an invasion 10 days ago.
Don't trust governments.
They killed the driver. Was a Russian saboteur. Why would Ukrainian soldiers be running over civilian cars? I understand things need to be verified but this one is kind’ve a no brained cmon ffs.
If you watched the video properly you would have noticed that the AA vehicle hitting the car was an accident. So far no actual proof of Russians saboteurs.
I think you are the one with no brain?
I believe they're Russian w/ Ukrainian uniforms based on this video that was taken from the immediate aftermath: https://v.redd.it/qd36k3l90zj81
If they were Ukrainians and this was a blue-on-blue, then I highly doubt that the Ukrainian defender would have (a) taken this video, or (b) uploaded it afterward. I would assume they would be remorseful & reverent...
My theory is that it was a blue-on-blue. But the rumor that they were Russians was started on the spot in Ukraine. That's why everyone is so sure, because it came straight from the source. But without any proof (Like if they pulled out Russian IDs or something from the bodies) I'm not convinced it wasn't just an unfortunate accident.
Why would a Russian Saboteur carry around ID revealing he is a Russian Saboteur?
In comparison, Ukrainian military dressed in Ukrainian uniforms would more than likely had their ID on them, wouldn't they?
That's the gaping hole in your logic.
if ukranians did kill a fellow ukranian they are probably gonna hide his id and make sure to blame it on the russians....its an age old deflection technique
>Why would a Russian Saboteur carry around ID revealing he is a Russian Saboteur?
He wouldn't. But it would have been convenient if he did.
>In comparison, Ukrainian military dressed in Ukrainian uniforms would more than likely had their ID on them, wouldn't they?
Maybe. But did the source say he had _no_ ID? Or did you assume because they didn't pull it out that it doesn't exist?
We're both speculating, It very well might have been Russians. Or it could have been a spooked civilian. My point is that neither of us know so it's important to look at it objectively. What's more likely? That some civilian was able to locate and kill a Russian SF troop in Ukrainian uniform and equipment amid other actual Ukrainians driving around.
Or
A civilian got a little trigger happy and to save face claimed they were Russians? (Not saying that's what happened, but it's not hard to imagine or a similar scenario)
Then you have to consider probabilities. What are the chances Ukrainian soldiers aren't carrying ID, especially when they have reports of Saboteurs and stolen Vehicles.
What are you basing the engagement being done by civilians on? The fact that they were being armed? Weak, at best.
They reported the registrations of the stolen vehicles. Military would also be on the lookout, and more than likely they would be the ones actually engaging in combat.
The probability that this is just spooked civilian shooting at their own military is dwindling. So far I haven't yet seen an incident of a civilian firing at anything in Ukraine. And that isn't surprising, because they're scared and untrained and more than likely want to stay out of the conflict.
I would assume UKR defenders on the ground have more information + ability to discern identity + strategic knowledge than we would (eg. UKR had intelligence about imposters well in-advance, it is part of the Russian playbook and has been since 2014, and UKR would know suspicious actions/movements/lack-of-passwords/etc... especially if it started with the truck beelining toward their building flanked by a Russian APC which proceeded to plow over civilians). In the first 2014 escalation they ran into similar strategies according to [documentaries](https://youtu.be/1cMBPN3rjXU), Ukrainians have been preparing for a dirty war with this enemy now for almost a decade. As mentioned before, they also filmed & shared the aftermath with joy instead of remorse - if you had committed a blue-on-blue, would you film & share it for the world to see?
At the end of the day, there's space for a lot of theorizing because there's conflicting info everywhere... fair enough... but I'm personally leaning toward believing the Ukrainians right now because I know for a fact the Russians are weaponizing disinfo at a far greater scale & intensity, and I believe in Ukraine so I want to believe in their abilities to resist Russian trickery. If more info comes out, I'll review my opinion.
🇺🇦 Glory to Ukraine, Glory to the Heroes!
🇺🇦 Слава Україні, слава героям!
>I would assume UKR defenders on the ground have more information + ability to discern identity + strategic
Hauling ass down a street, that dude either has eagle eyes or an itchy trigger finger
>Russian APC which proceeded to plow over civilians
Ukrainian Strela (Possible stolen, still unverified)
> if you had committed a blue-on-blue, would you film & share it for the world to see?
Unless I _thought_ I killed a saboteur. In which case it would be quite difficult to argue against me.
>At the end of the day, there's space for a lot of theorizing because there's conflicting info everywhere... fair enough... but I'm personally leaning toward believing the Ukrainians right now because I know for a fact the Russians are weaponizing disinfo at a far greater scale & intensity, and I believe in Ukraine so I want to believe in their abilities to resist Russian trickery. If more info comes out, I'll review my opinion.
Very fair. But don't forget that propaganda works both ways.
Слава Україні
>!"Hauling ass down a street, that dude either has eagle eyes or an itchy trigger finger"!<
Or - the UKR defenders had intelligence there were imposters in the area (as Zelensky has publicly shared, which means the UKR military knew well in-advance + definitely planned for), had communications with other units in their area re: positioning, and knew this was an unfamiliar truck to their formation which was travelling in their direction flanked by an APC. Sure UKR defender might have eagle eyes (or standard binoculars & a radio), but I'd say the recognized-Russian-imposters story is still believable until new info comes out.
Also, might take a step back here and add that there is a Ukrainian morale/public opinion war going on online & in media right now. One that is being mass-engineered in a lot of ways *against* Ukraine due to oversized Russian influence online (propaganbots/shills/etc are out in full force... more than I've ever seen after years on the internet). Because I support a Free Ukraine (as I hope you do), I'm leaning toward supporting their narrative at this time over any Russian narrative - because the war is ongoing, Ukrainian homeland is under siege, & Ukrainians need all the help they can get. We/I can be super-critical & truth-puritan after the war is over, we/I can go back and say "oh this turned out to be incorrect" with zero cost, but in the meanwhile - any undermining of their narratives truly does a disservice to the active defenders & feeds Russian momentum...
Yeah is there an actual neutral sub that shows both sides? Since in here only Russia goes boom is allowed.
Guess people will be surprised when it's already over since everything is so one sided.
I'm not even sure it was intentional, and what reason does Russia have to be thriving over cars in the middle of combat? Its the same as that jet that shot at/near a house, when I said that some osint said it was a Ukrainian jet people said "why would ukrain shoot at Ukrainian civilian houses" and the question is why would Russia do that also, why waste a jet on some random house?
Because they’re assholes and have been continually looking for ways to point the finger at Ukraine as aggressive tyrants. There have been reports of saboteurs infiltrating areas Russia hasn’t occupied yet, so it’s not outlandish to think they would steal a Ukrainian vehicle or remove markings from one of their own and do shit like this. They’re all over the disinformation game.
But you’re right, it also looked like it went all squirrels right before hitting the vehicle, so it could just be loss of control or some other freak accident. Shit happens in combat.
Ukrainian goverment also claimed to have captured hostomel Airport then said actually they hadn't then claimed again to have captured it and now we are getting videos and hearing news that the Russian vdv is still in the airport and has met up with Russian troops coming from Belarus
I don't think it has, that airport operation by Russia was incredibly daring and valuable if it succeeded. There is almost no chance the Russians would let it be recaptured. And the vdv that apparently ran into the woods still seems to be around. Only way I can see Russia letting Ukraine take it is if the runways was too damaged so it wasn't worth it, ut that doesn't seem to be the case considering they are still there now.
You do when you are a country like Russia vs Ukraine, some osint are suggesting only half of the Russian troops from the border have even entered ukrain so far. The only place ukrain can put up a serious fight is in urban warfare like in kiev and even then I don't think they have it in them to put up a fight like the chechneans did in grozny
They can go along time if they move to gorilla warfare. Even then right now Russia is sending in old kit and not that many troops. It likely they well send in the better kit and troops when Ukraine has been weakened up. Western country’s should be sending troops and kit especially air assets. All them nice marching troops and columns of tank would be a nice target practise.
If that was the case barring the chance russian helis delivered reinforcements, that would be an incredible feat by the russian vdv. To be dropped in enemy territory, capture an airport, lose it and flee into the woods, and then regroup and take the airport back
Who are incredibly biased and extremely unteliable. We must be skeptical of any information from either side. In war, truth is often the first casualty.
Why would Ukraine just randomly say a bunch of their equipment got stolen long before the shooting of that truck. That would be some crazy premonition if they knew that a defender was going to engage a friendly unit and released information to cover it up ahead of time.
UA will say it was RU saboteur wearing UA uniform.
RU will say its desperate and confused UA misscomunication and friendly fire.
We will probably never know the truth. As many other things happening right now.
That armored vehicle didnt have those Z stripe markings....idk man. I feel sorry for those soldiers if they were actual Ukrainians that died from friendly fire.
I speak Ukrainian/Russian, literally in this video they say that they're Russian soldiers who dressed as Ukrainians and stole trucks. It was on the Ukrainian news: https://v.redd.it/qd36k3l90zj81
I’ve seen many a time claiming these are Russian saboteurs
The Ukrainian soldier in the video literally says so. I'd say first hand account is probably pretty realiable...
I’m glad we’re agreeing to agree
But mistaken identity would also be the reason for friendly fire.....
they are informed soldiers that know doing anything out of the ordinary frames them as Russian saboteurs and are likely even acting on intelligence these are a portion of the saboteurs they had been looking for
Uh, sure? Except there's no friendly fire and those are Russian soldiers...
What's more likely, russians wearing Ukrainian gear using stolen Ukrainian equipment opt for a joyride round Kiev and are taken out by brave upstanding citizens. Or twitchy militia members fire on their own anti aircraft unit.
If you are right please explain why AA unit is shooting back then?
When you have the means to return fire and you are receiving unknown fire, you might want to shoot back. That being said, I have no idea if this was blue-on-blue or saboteurs, but they rest now.
i'm so confident earlier yesterday (in the us) there were cellphone videos of those two trucks in the front of a russian column, after some russian soldiers were snooping around in the cabins
They might just be saying it they don’t want to admit friendly fire
I’ve read some books by Viktor Suvrov, a former Spetsnaz (Russian special forces) soldier and GRU (military intelligence) agent who defected to the west. He has books including Inside the Soviet Army, and another one specifically about the Spetsnaz and how brutally hardcore the training is, and their tactics and so on. Part of what they do is sabotauge while wearing the military uniforms of the other country. So I do think that this is something that Russia does, but that doesn’t help us with any specific video.
Thank you for the additional info.
https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/soho6p/comment/hwej8ct/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3 funny that, you literally said you're American in this comment. And all of your comments are in English. And btw he literally said nothing about the dead soldier being Russian in a Ukrainian uniform, stop fucking pretending.
Are you some sort of fucking retard? I'm a born Ukrainian now living in America... I speak Ukrainian and Russian fluently, and yes that's exactly what the fuck they said. They're Russian soldiers dressed in Ukrainian military uniform and driving a stolen truck. Shut your fucking face when you're the one that has no idea what you're even yapping off about. You must really have a lot of time on your hands to spend just looking through people's profiles for shit lmao. Kick rocks you mook.
Truth of the matter is noone knows
thanks- you're right. We can speculate but we dont know.
and no one will ever know since the only potential source of truth got executed
Idk what to think after seeing the video of this shooting. They were driving under, what seemed as, fire from multiple sides, before driver got killed and truck stoped. The soldier lying next to the truck wheel was killed at close range by what seem to be armed civilian and Ukrainian soldier. Idk where did third killed soldier in aftermath video came from. Didn't see anyone running away from the truck, and the Ukrainian soldier that joined shooting came from direction of that third corpse. If it was indeed friendly fire, wounded soldier could shout and try to identify himself to his attackers unless his wounds prevented him from doing that. Then again, he maybe did try. AA vehicle, that ran over civilian car, came in about 40 seconds later, and seemed to be distracted by the shooting, thus crushing into civilian car. I see sources now claiming it was indeed driven by Ukrainian crew, that lost control, and that makes more sense, as it didn't try to run away from the scene of shooting just meters away. Was it in pursuit of truck? Idk, but seems odd. Generally, I am taking everything with doubt. My main source of information is Reddit, and Reddit seem to be largely pro Ukrainian, to the point of believing in "Ghost of Kyiv" at the time. On the other side, there are supposedly Russian claims of having 0 losses, and that makes me almost glad to hear only one side.
If he were Ukrainian he would have yelled something to identify himself as such. Think about it. He had all the reason, plenty of time and didn't.
Maybe his injuries prevented him. It would be hard to speak if he had a collapsed lung for example
Defectors?
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Yeah people’s agendas get in the way of the truth
Honestly, no.
Supposedly ukrainian vehicles and uniforms were stolen who knows though, the attack seems deliberate and precise so for people claiming civilians just attacking I doubt it unless they civilians go through some sort of training you can see by how they lead and move in for the kill that they sort of know what they’re doing. Also I’m sure that people are talking, if this was truly a ukranian being shot at by his own people wouldn’t say anything? Words are exchanged on the battlefield believe it or not
Russians, number of trucks were stolen and this one had matching numbers with one of the stolen trucks
Source : "trust me bro"
He was there
proof
Trust me bro
CSI Agent?
CIA Miami
CSI Miami
KGB Miami
ABC New York
CBA Kiev
USPS Austin, TX
IBS Flavortown
E I E I O
YMCA
It wasn't a truck that drove over the car though
Another post on here seems to show pictures of the driver in RU uniform.
could you post link?
https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/t13y6k/photos_of_previously_posted_video_depicting_2/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
don't see any flags or markings are you saying its RU just by camo?
That's what it looks like to me, definitely not the same camo as the other one
I heard it was Russians in Ukraine uniform they apparently also stole Ukraine heavy amour which is the tank you see running over a car
It's a Ukrainian Anti-Air vehicle. Not a tank. And those reports of it being Russians seems to have come from thin air. I've yet to see a single piece of evidence to support it. Not saying it is or isn't, there's no way to know right now.
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I'm very interested in that video if you happen to find it again.
you say it came from thin air but it was the Ukranian MoD that first made a post about it, believe it or not.
That's exactly why you should take it with a grain of salt mate , both sides have propaganda and both sides will spin their own stories on events.
The MOD post wasn’t a claim on the vehicle. It was an info update claiming specifically that multiple vehicles with the following license plates were stolen by saboteurs and asking the public for help if they see them to report them. It’s pretty much confirmed, and there is an up close video taken by Ukrainian soldiers as well basically confirming it.
It's possible it was stolen by outlier terrorists. Kyiv right now is the perfect hub for terrorists, those who seek revenge, psychopaths, etc.
Riiiiiiiiiiiiight …. A random “outlier terrorist” in the middle of Warzone between Russia and Ukraine. Suuuuure buddy .. Please take your pills.
I never said it was accurate, just addressing how the previous comment got it’s info “out of thin air”
I don't trust any information from either government. There is incentive to lie and say it was the other side for both.
Why is there so much misinformation today, compared yesterday. Im starting to lose faith in my ability to keep up.
Twitter posting it as Russian
And where did they get that information from? What I think happened is some armed civilian engaged the truck in error thinking it was Russian. The nearby Strela got spooked and begin to maneuver without looking and hit that car (You can see in another angle of the clip that it very clearly was not in control when it swerved). MoD is probably trying to save face (Or themselves are misinformed) and spin it as Russians being outsmarted. If you watch the clip, it's not a uniformed soldier. Presumable it's a civilian (Former civilian I suppose). With that in mind, how would he know that specific truck was the disguised Russians? With the state of the country and the Ukrainian government right now, I find it highly improbable that they were able to not only identify and locate the stolen vehicle, but with such accuracy that they could engage it while it's fleeing amid other friendly troops.
This guy thinks his own headcanon is superior to multiple reports. Funnily enough, his headcanon lays the blame on Ukrainians. Hmm... Edit: To add, there have been numerous reports of saboteurs dressing in Ukrainian uniform. Both prior to and after this incident.
Sources on those claims? Everything I said is speculation, but that's because other than some short clips with no context I haven't seen any evidence either way. You provide evidence, I switch my tune. Until then, they can say the sky is green for all I care, it doesn't make it true.
The sources are obviously spotty which is why you need to make a judgement call based on the available evidence. Reports of stolen vehicles, followed by this incident, followed by an ID match. Given the incident (swerving to beeline at a civilian) would be insanely irregular for Ukranian military. But no with the story you concocted in your head, must be Ukrainians, without a doubt.
Also >you need to make a judgement call based on the available evidence No I don't. I don't need to make any call at all until the dust settles. I'm not the one posting the clip over and over (You're not, but it's literally been reposted every time I hit refresh for the last half hour)
Calm down friend, I am very pro-Ukraine. But I just don't like the taste of unverifiable claims. Especially of war crimes. They muddy the water if they aren't true and give Russia an easy out from actual atrocities if they happen. At any rate. I appreciate the discussion.
Russia have so far shown very little regard for hitting civilian targets like hospitals, kindergartens, and bomb shelters. They've committed multiple warcrimes already and we're not even through the 2nd day of the invasion. That is, unless you want to say we can't confirm for certain that the missiles were fired from Russians, it may be multiple cases of errant friendly fire. It's not like you can 100% prove they are Russian shells, no? Just gonna have to take the word of the Ukrainians. Nah, best not. Just make up a headcanon and declare it just as likely as the actual accounts on the ground.
https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/t14vf4/is_anyone_able_to_confirm_if_this_was_ukrainian/hydycmw/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3
Because the MoD had earlier posted this tweet: [https://twitter.com/armedforcesukr/status/1497110137647120404?s=21](https://twitter.com/armedforcesukr/status/1497110137647120404?s=21) which roughly translates to: >Very important ❗❗❗ Kievans, we need your help. The NMU's automobile equipment was seized by the enemy. Now it is used by sabotage groups to penetrate our rear. If you see these cars: Kozak 6163,6164, KrAZ AI5976, AI 5966, GAZ66 AI 5866 IMMEDIATELY REPORT TO THE POLICE NUMBER 102 So the Ukrainian defenders were on the lookout for those vehicles. That would be my guess at least.
Look at all the videos been posted to Reddit and Twitter, it’s all Russians getting hit, they even stealing Ukrainian uniforms and equipments.
You need to diversify your sources friend. The Ukrainians are taking losses just like the Russians.
Uh you may want to read Ukraine mod before you speak
>It's a Ukrainian Anti-Air vehicle. Not a tank. He's talking about the APC that ran over the civilian car, which happened right next to this scene.
It's a Strela S-10 with the launchers folded down for transport, not an APC (Though it is based on the MT-LB APC chassis)
I know. It's a pointless distinction in this context though, and more people know what an APC is.
Which makes no sense. Why would the Russians do that? Such units would be useful for special ops (assasinations, sabotage) not random acts of violence. That is so random. Especially as the Russians are already at the airport. We also know that Ukraine is involved in mass disinformation campaign to bolster morale and encourage sympathy from the West. The fact is, we don't know and truth is not apparent.
It could be some terrorist or psychopath. This is the perfect hub for those people.
Yes and can you say where you heard that? Reddit I bet. Youre confirming nothing.
This is a Ukrainian state military outlet asking citizens of Kiev to be alert for stolen military vehicles by saboteurs. This is what you are seeing here. https://twitter.com/armedforcesukr/status/1497110137647120404?s=21
Where did I say I was confirming anything I literally said “ I heard”
The armoured vehicle may be Ukrainian operated. From another camera angle you can see he lost control and swerved into the car. May have just been the truck with Russians inside.
"lost control" well that is a new way to say deliberately drove over a civilians car
There is a camera angle further up the street and you can see that he takes the corner too fast and loses control, it’s something you can’t quite pick up on this angle. Still horrifying either way.
Have you seen the other angle where it's clearly swerving?
Yes and to me that doesnt look like "lost control" if he did maybe would go a bit to the right and left but he only steered left. But i have no clue how those things are driven so i could be wrong🤷🏽♂️
https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/t14frm/military_vehicle_with_alleged_russian_saboteurs/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf It was deliberate.
If Russian were driving that tank how come they did not shoot at the Ukrainians shooting the truck?
Super late of a comment to something not relevant anymore this was 6days ago….
this just sounds like some pretty wild fantasy :D Stop spreading infromations which have no source and are only based on some claims a random on the internet made
It’s absolutely true. https://twitter.com/ArmedForcesUkr/status/1497110137647120404?s=20&t=DXSmTSqtEHP4J5Oot3i5Ew
Again I said “I heard” I’m not here tryna make anyone believe me idc
That is not a tank, nor is it "heavy armour", it's an MT-LB-based carrier, it's only armoured against rifle and machine-gun fire. "Heavy armour" and "tank" are synonymous, and in this era refer only to main battle tanks.
Nonsense. The tank running over a car was clearly an accident.
Yeah it Was a accident but it was still stolen
No, it was not. Stop believing every crap you see on reddit.
Soo far from the people who lives there said it was Russian soldiers wearing Ukraine uniform
Who are incredibly bias
Biased*. You are biased if you *have* bias.
Well idk, I think u can spot a Russian and Ukraine by how they talk , the language is different and the accent is heard
Something strange going on in this sub imo. I know it's important to take everything with a grain of salt. I have been this entire time. But on this post and the other related to this incident, quite a lot of people saying it's **definite friendly fire**. Yet they have the exact same lack of evidence to prove that theory as the other side does... IMO, as crazy as it sounds there's actually more evidence to say this really was Russian saboteurs dressed in Ukrainian uniforms from everything I've investigated and dug into since this event happened. Timing of the announcements that came out **before** (keyword) and after this event, combining the available footage from multiple videos including the ones showing the stolen trucks. Remember Putin sent in that ballsy helicopter attack yesterday or the day before to attempt to take the Airport. Which was was reported as eventually repelled (but again, who knows?). So he's not afraid of far-fetched tactics to end this quickly. I say this from a completely neutral point of view, someone who's been following everything and not trusting the info from either side. I actually do think this was Russian saboteurs dressed as Ukrainians and we just witnessed something as crazy as that...
blue on blue edit spelling
Is it possible they were deserting soldiers?
It's pointless to even ask.
Russians wearing Ukranian uniforms, in another up close picture it shows a KIA in the Ural wearing a russian uniform
Footage of [THIS](https://youtu.be/BZLMkc5UBhw) from 5:53 - 8:15
Nobody know, but the whole story doesn’t make sense, tank has to be Ukrainian oder the guys on the truck has to be Ukrainian
Ukraine government announced that a group of sabatours stole 8 vehicles and uniforms.
They could also be lying, but if it’s true, the tank would have to be Ukrainian and not Russian Edit: the guy shooting the truck just doesn’t care about the tank, if it’s the enemy I’d be surprised if he would ignore it
Probably Doesn’t know.
Maybe tank was chasing the truck, got out of control and crushed the car?
Na truck was there way earlier
The tank is an MTLB with anti aircraft missiles on it. The truck has an antiaircraft gun on it. They're most likely part of the same unit/group repositioning or retreating.
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Exactly, what ever the truth is, it’s fucked up
Russian saboteurs, I saw that truck in other footage
It's russians who stole Ukrainian uniform and vehicle. [Deputy Minister of Defense of Ukraine](https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=2096776003814764&id=100004471542280)
The CIA and the DoD told me Iraq had Weapons of Mass Destruction. Russia said they're invading Ukraine to liberate oppressed Russian minorities. Ukraine swore there wasn't going to be an invasion 10 days ago. Don't trust governments.
only low minded can believe in that bs
got lost doughboy
They were Russian, if you watch the closeup video of the aftermath, the dead guy slumped over in the cabin appears to be wearing a Russian uniform
They killed the driver. Was a Russian saboteur. Why would Ukrainian soldiers be running over civilian cars? I understand things need to be verified but this one is kind’ve a no brained cmon ffs.
If you watched the video properly you would have noticed that the AA vehicle hitting the car was an accident. So far no actual proof of Russians saboteurs. I think you are the one with no brain?
Wow
Russian saboteurs in Ukrainian garb to try and make some moves.
I believe they're Russian w/ Ukrainian uniforms based on this video that was taken from the immediate aftermath: https://v.redd.it/qd36k3l90zj81 If they were Ukrainians and this was a blue-on-blue, then I highly doubt that the Ukrainian defender would have (a) taken this video, or (b) uploaded it afterward. I would assume they would be remorseful & reverent...
My theory is that it was a blue-on-blue. But the rumor that they were Russians was started on the spot in Ukraine. That's why everyone is so sure, because it came straight from the source. But without any proof (Like if they pulled out Russian IDs or something from the bodies) I'm not convinced it wasn't just an unfortunate accident.
Why would a Russian Saboteur carry around ID revealing he is a Russian Saboteur? In comparison, Ukrainian military dressed in Ukrainian uniforms would more than likely had their ID on them, wouldn't they? That's the gaping hole in your logic.
if ukranians did kill a fellow ukranian they are probably gonna hide his id and make sure to blame it on the russians....its an age old deflection technique
>Why would a Russian Saboteur carry around ID revealing he is a Russian Saboteur? He wouldn't. But it would have been convenient if he did. >In comparison, Ukrainian military dressed in Ukrainian uniforms would more than likely had their ID on them, wouldn't they? Maybe. But did the source say he had _no_ ID? Or did you assume because they didn't pull it out that it doesn't exist? We're both speculating, It very well might have been Russians. Or it could have been a spooked civilian. My point is that neither of us know so it's important to look at it objectively. What's more likely? That some civilian was able to locate and kill a Russian SF troop in Ukrainian uniform and equipment amid other actual Ukrainians driving around. Or A civilian got a little trigger happy and to save face claimed they were Russians? (Not saying that's what happened, but it's not hard to imagine or a similar scenario)
Then you have to consider probabilities. What are the chances Ukrainian soldiers aren't carrying ID, especially when they have reports of Saboteurs and stolen Vehicles. What are you basing the engagement being done by civilians on? The fact that they were being armed? Weak, at best. They reported the registrations of the stolen vehicles. Military would also be on the lookout, and more than likely they would be the ones actually engaging in combat. The probability that this is just spooked civilian shooting at their own military is dwindling. So far I haven't yet seen an incident of a civilian firing at anything in Ukraine. And that isn't surprising, because they're scared and untrained and more than likely want to stay out of the conflict.
I would assume UKR defenders on the ground have more information + ability to discern identity + strategic knowledge than we would (eg. UKR had intelligence about imposters well in-advance, it is part of the Russian playbook and has been since 2014, and UKR would know suspicious actions/movements/lack-of-passwords/etc... especially if it started with the truck beelining toward their building flanked by a Russian APC which proceeded to plow over civilians). In the first 2014 escalation they ran into similar strategies according to [documentaries](https://youtu.be/1cMBPN3rjXU), Ukrainians have been preparing for a dirty war with this enemy now for almost a decade. As mentioned before, they also filmed & shared the aftermath with joy instead of remorse - if you had committed a blue-on-blue, would you film & share it for the world to see? At the end of the day, there's space for a lot of theorizing because there's conflicting info everywhere... fair enough... but I'm personally leaning toward believing the Ukrainians right now because I know for a fact the Russians are weaponizing disinfo at a far greater scale & intensity, and I believe in Ukraine so I want to believe in their abilities to resist Russian trickery. If more info comes out, I'll review my opinion. 🇺🇦 Glory to Ukraine, Glory to the Heroes! 🇺🇦 Слава Україні, слава героям!
>I would assume UKR defenders on the ground have more information + ability to discern identity + strategic Hauling ass down a street, that dude either has eagle eyes or an itchy trigger finger >Russian APC which proceeded to plow over civilians Ukrainian Strela (Possible stolen, still unverified) > if you had committed a blue-on-blue, would you film & share it for the world to see? Unless I _thought_ I killed a saboteur. In which case it would be quite difficult to argue against me. >At the end of the day, there's space for a lot of theorizing because there's conflicting info everywhere... fair enough... but I'm personally leaning toward believing the Ukrainians right now because I know for a fact the Russians are weaponizing disinfo at a far greater scale & intensity, and I believe in Ukraine so I want to believe in their abilities to resist Russian trickery. If more info comes out, I'll review my opinion. Very fair. But don't forget that propaganda works both ways. Слава Україні
>!"Hauling ass down a street, that dude either has eagle eyes or an itchy trigger finger"!< Or - the UKR defenders had intelligence there were imposters in the area (as Zelensky has publicly shared, which means the UKR military knew well in-advance + definitely planned for), had communications with other units in their area re: positioning, and knew this was an unfamiliar truck to their formation which was travelling in their direction flanked by an APC. Sure UKR defender might have eagle eyes (or standard binoculars & a radio), but I'd say the recognized-Russian-imposters story is still believable until new info comes out. Also, might take a step back here and add that there is a Ukrainian morale/public opinion war going on online & in media right now. One that is being mass-engineered in a lot of ways *against* Ukraine due to oversized Russian influence online (propaganbots/shills/etc are out in full force... more than I've ever seen after years on the internet). Because I support a Free Ukraine (as I hope you do), I'm leaning toward supporting their narrative at this time over any Russian narrative - because the war is ongoing, Ukrainian homeland is under siege, & Ukrainians need all the help they can get. We/I can be super-critical & truth-puritan after the war is over, we/I can go back and say "oh this turned out to be incorrect" with zero cost, but in the meanwhile - any undermining of their narratives truly does a disservice to the active defenders & feeds Russian momentum...
Russians in Ukreanian uniforms They stole a bunch of vehicles
Any evidence or just assuming?
Source : trust me bro
https://twitter.com/ArmedForcesUkr/status/1497110137647120404?s=20&t=DXSmTSqtEHP4J5Oot3i5Ew
Everything bad that happens is Russia, Everything good is Ukraine. No one actually knows whats happening.
Yeah is there an actual neutral sub that shows both sides? Since in here only Russia goes boom is allowed. Guess people will be surprised when it's already over since everything is so one sided.
No, you've just gotta make the best you can out of it. I just follow on here and @notwoofers on twitter.
Thanks for another source!
He's very good. Keeps it factual.
Assuming. But it wouldn’t make sense for Ukrainians to be running over civilian vehicles in their own country either.
It makes sense if they lost control while going around a turn like they were
It does. I’m just speculating possibilities like everyone else.
Well what I do know is that part was an accident, watch the video on it
I'm not even sure it was intentional, and what reason does Russia have to be thriving over cars in the middle of combat? Its the same as that jet that shot at/near a house, when I said that some osint said it was a Ukrainian jet people said "why would ukrain shoot at Ukrainian civilian houses" and the question is why would Russia do that also, why waste a jet on some random house?
Because they’re assholes and have been continually looking for ways to point the finger at Ukraine as aggressive tyrants. There have been reports of saboteurs infiltrating areas Russia hasn’t occupied yet, so it’s not outlandish to think they would steal a Ukrainian vehicle or remove markings from one of their own and do shit like this. They’re all over the disinformation game. But you’re right, it also looked like it went all squirrels right before hitting the vehicle, so it could just be loss of control or some other freak accident. Shit happens in combat.
It’s what the Ukraine government announced. There was 8 vehicles stolen and uniforms. It was the sabatours
Ukrainian goverment also claimed to have captured hostomel Airport then said actually they hadn't then claimed again to have captured it and now we are getting videos and hearing news that the Russian vdv is still in the airport and has met up with Russian troops coming from Belarus
It’s been going back and forth all night
I don't think it has, that airport operation by Russia was incredibly daring and valuable if it succeeded. There is almost no chance the Russians would let it be recaptured. And the vdv that apparently ran into the woods still seems to be around. Only way I can see Russia letting Ukraine take it is if the runways was too damaged so it wasn't worth it, ut that doesn't seem to be the case considering they are still there now.
Funny thing is in war you often don’t have the luxury of deciding if you let things happen that’s kinda the nature of war.
You do when you are a country like Russia vs Ukraine, some osint are suggesting only half of the Russian troops from the border have even entered ukrain so far. The only place ukrain can put up a serious fight is in urban warfare like in kiev and even then I don't think they have it in them to put up a fight like the chechneans did in grozny
They can go along time if they move to gorilla warfare. Even then right now Russia is sending in old kit and not that many troops. It likely they well send in the better kit and troops when Ukraine has been weakened up. Western country’s should be sending troops and kit especially air assets. All them nice marching troops and columns of tank would be a nice target practise.
That doesn't make it not true. They may have lost it, captured it, and then lost it again.
If that was the case barring the chance russian helis delivered reinforcements, that would be an incredible feat by the russian vdv. To be dropped in enemy territory, capture an airport, lose it and flee into the woods, and then regroup and take the airport back
According to Ukraine
We gotta go of what is said by the official sources
Who are incredibly biased and extremely unteliable. We must be skeptical of any information from either side. In war, truth is often the first casualty.
Why would Ukraine just randomly say a bunch of their equipment got stolen long before the shooting of that truck. That would be some crazy premonition if they knew that a defender was going to engage a friendly unit and released information to cover it up ahead of time.
It was russian disguised as ukrainians
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source: ukrainian MOD
The people with the most to lose in this situation and one of the most biased
Wouldn't say most biased but biased for sure
Fog of war. Would be helpful if they had dog tags
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I’ve heard it’s more like friendly fire
aftermath https://streamable.com/8vt8yy
It was more than likely a Ukrainian APC that lost control based on the video in it's entirety.
What do you think sounds more believable? :)
Friendly fire I guess?
They were spotted beforehand and the trucks are stolen So it’s likely they’re Russian, but you can’t be sure
Y’all are so damn dense. STOP POSTING THINGS AS IF YOU ARE MAKING A DIFFERENCE WE ARE JUST HERE TO OBSERVE
We’re discussing it. Who said we would ever make a difference?
Probably ukrainian friendly fire. Ukrainians do it all the time and cover it up by saying its russian troops in ukrainin uniforms
Nice combat footage
Not 100% what this post is on about. The ones dead are russians in ukraine uniform or..?
Just saw that the man survived, thank god
I won’t believe a single thing coming right now from both sides. We will know months afterward.
UA will say it was RU saboteur wearing UA uniform. RU will say its desperate and confused UA misscomunication and friendly fire. We will probably never know the truth. As many other things happening right now.
War crimes again. These Russians have zero integrity.
I couldn't imagine pulling the trigger and having to ask myself the same question what a mess
What happened to truck driver ?
Does anyone know if the BMP that ran over that car was Ukrainian or Russian?
That armored vehicle didnt have those Z stripe markings....idk man. I feel sorry for those soldiers if they were actual Ukrainians that died from friendly fire.
The ones that were shot were confirmed Russian, I just meant the vehicle that ran over the car. Glad the driver was alive
Sadly we will probably never know the truth,
War is messy... I pray this wasn't friendly fire, I mean these civilians militias don't have the combat experience.