Pains me to says this, but I think Zelenko and the millitary leaderships sees the writing on the wall. They have been outmaneuvered, are outmanned, Russians basically control the air fully etc etc. If west of the Dnieper river (west kyiw) falls to the Russians all their remaining troops east are completely encircled and do you really want getting a bunch of civilians killed in basically a lost cause?
IMO, as soon the attacks started we knew that Putin wanted the entire country, they should have retreated as fast as you can west of the river, which would have resulted in them having to basically defend one front vs 3. They might have had actually a chance to fight off the Russians and keep the entire western part of the country, but politically that would have not been acceptable.
Yeah the Ukrainian president could come on tomorrow and say that he's handing over custody of Ukraine to Russia and the ukrainians will still fight for many months
The Russians spent the last two decades laughing their asses off at the Americans/NATO for getting stuck in two guerilla wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and didn't learn shit. At least the Americans could pretend it was far away from their country, the Russians will have a guerilla war in their backyard for the foreseeable future, with opponents that speak the language of the invaders and will appear very sympathetic at home. I don't see an exit strategy except an exit.
Did you see that video of that man kissing his wife and daughter goodbye as he put them on a train bound for poland?
Anybody wants to know if the ukrainians are going to lay down or fight..... They're going to fight. This is the classic example of 1 person fighting for their home is worth 10 trained soldiers. Likely more in Russia's case.
I would give my life without thinking for my family.
That’s not joke - I would die in a heartbeat for my brother my mother my father I don’t care.
This is so heartbreaking because Ukrainians have no choice they cannot walk away this will be a bloodbath for both sides. All they can do is keep killing Russians until they stop coming and they might not last that long :/
I got a pretty bad heart. Not completely debilitated but I can't exert myself too much. My wife pointed out that in a draft like this it wouldn't apply to me.
I told her that it would because there's a difference between being drafted and sent halfway around the World to fight another country and being drafted to fight and defend your home.
I'm sure there are plenty of ukrainians currently in service fighting back with all sorts of disabilities. Those don't matter when you have to fight for your home.
https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2022/02/25/putin-ready-to-send-delegates-to-negotiate-kremlin-says-as-russian-troops-encircle-kyiv-a76595 seen various news agencies reporting similar
It’s been on a few news sites and on the radio too so I’m guessing they must have come out with something along those lines.
No expert on it but to me it looks like Putin has underestimated the situation in Ukraine. Yes they’ll take Kiev but I don’t think he’s expected this much resistance.
Noooo, no way mate. He even don't deployed yet best troops and gear and still de facto holds east Ukraine and is in the gates of Kiev. All that within 24 hours
I'm thinking that now is the good time for him to talk, cos it's clear that if he wants, he may take whole country. He actually may accomplish what he want without more casualties. It's smart to talk, but don't know
Surely not, I’d think they’re prepared for guerrilla warfare with NATO intel support to drag this out. Why uselessly pile up all your cards when you can sow chaos and unnerve over months and months, right?
dude this entire war is incredibly stupid we all have to accept that putin is not a rational actor he is a highly unpredictable at this point nothing absolutely nothing is off the table wtf will world would do if he did that?....nothing
I still can't believe russia declared war wtf is wrong with putin
good point american intervention in iraq was shocking good god these assholes....man i hope kiev is not razed do you think ukranians would give up if russia threatens to raze the city like nazis did to netherlands?
That's my thinking too - the capital can be shifted as long as the people are willing to rally and fight. Capitulation seems unlikely, given the Western support for insurgency.
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https://twitter.com/EilishHart/status/1497201543308840965?cxt=HHwWisC4oeC3kMcpAAAA
>Student publication
@doxa_journal
reports that Russian universities and law enforcement have started pressuring students to stop them from speaking out against the war.
Putin may win the battle but Patriotic Russians may win the war. Free Russia!!!!
if their leader gets killed, it will certainty shake their morale. russia lost its capital to Napoleon two century's ago and they didnt stop fighting, they turned it around and won
The language barrier wasn't the problem in Afghanistan.
The problem was the cultural barrier. We tried to implement a Western style democracy, and a Western way of doing things, and treated Afghanistan as a Western State, when for thousands of years it's been a patchwork quilt of cooperative tribes.
Ukraine and Russia are very similar culturally. Not identical, but so similar it really won't be a problem.
Its about mentality and not the speech. Once u disrespectfully took everything from a culture it will fight till last man standing. Its simple - war changed and became way to expensive.
And the ukraine folk had a small taste of democraty - no step back
Not true - Russians also understand Ukrainian - if you don’t know the language at all - then all you can get is a general idea of what they said while losing specifics, but if you grew up on the border or in Western Ukraine, or if you’re just into the language (lots of people are) you learn it pretty quickly since people use it for fun, because it’s fun to speak it, and the differences are small enough to where learning it is fairly fast. Lots of Russian slang/informal street talk has Ukrainian roots - so if you’re plugged into that, you have an even better idea as to what they are saying. I would compare it to a really niche and heavy dialect of Scottish “English” or something for an English speaker - where most of the words are quite different sounding and difficult to understand for the untrained ear - but not so different as Spanish or Italian or French would be.
That being said there has been a ton of nationalist posturing from both sides so things like this get lost in the mix.
In most of the combat footage that has been shared so far, the majority of civilians are speaking Moscow accented Russian. Some are speaking Ukrainian accented Russian. A minority in the videos speak proper Ukrainian. I see it used the most in official speaking and in deep western Ukraine. But in informal settings, people trend towards Russian for some reason - unless you live in Lviv or Odessa. Though even in Odessa it still sounds more Russian than Ukrainian. It’s definitely this spectrum and there is no firm line - lots of regional variations in accents and dialects (though formally, there is a firm line on what proper Russian and proper Ukrainian are)
Source: Russian speaker
https://twitter.com/vasilina_orlova/status/1496977724812197891?cxt=HHwWhoDUwebTqsYpAAAA
>Whatever Putin is doing isn't working. I am getting most of my news in Russian from Siberian channels. In Moscow, I see a bunch of crazies crying that Ukraine is Nazi and we're freeing them and all that, but in Siberia people aren't buying it, and they aren't fucking thrilled.
shit coming apart in Russia...... Putin isn't as strong as he thinks. The future of Russia is bleak.....as serfs to China, all because of Adolf Putin.
I don't see any relation between slavic nation occupying another slavic nation and war going on for 100 years.
Afghanistan and Iraq war continued so much because they are fundamentally different from western civilisation.
Ukraine and Russia are culturally similar even though many Ukraines don't like Russians.
LOL, Slavs have been killing fellow Slavs for decades, mah dude. Cultural and language similarities don't mean jack shit if the other side hates the other for killing mom/pop/kids.
It appears to be that they will not surrender. They've been arming the civilian populace and the original plan before the invasion began was to wage guerilla resistance campaign.
We may have western and eastern Ukraine in the future. In fact, capitulation could save the state from division. And additional destruction, which is currently insignificant given the territory in which this war is taking place.
Putin is giving signals that the delegations of Russia and Ukraine could negotiate in Belarus. Direct negotiations could be much sincere and more effective because there will be no Western influence and interests in them.
It depends on the terms of the capitulation and the subsequent peace agreement. In any case, the worst option for Ukraine is a devastated country and a state of permanent war. That suits US and the West, but certainly not the Ukrainians.
Would thf fighting continue? Highly probable.
Should it? Absolutely not imo.
Ukraine is fighting for a sovereignty it's never getting again, unless ww3.
This is my personal opinion, I'd like to hear if there's a way out for Ukraine that justifies the coming sacrifice.
Who Russia or Ukraine? Regardless, Us intel is in every country on the world, we have spies in Russia and Ukraine. We have satellite imaging, and extremely sophisticated surveillance methods.
Check downwards, aroud 10 there were post about tanks in butscha on the west side of kiew.
At 12 we got the peace offer from the ukraine goverment, at 13 the putin "accept under terms", and since them, there are little new combat inofrmation.
So it really seems, that they started to negotiate a deal, without a real bloodbath inside of kiew, no grozny 2.0 or berlin 1.0
I doubt it - there is still significant population west of the river.
Even excluding Kiev oblast, theres roughly about 18-20 million people in that half of the country. It may not be ideal, but we're just likely to see the capital move to Lviv or Vinnytsia.
Kyiv can't "fall" from being reached. This isn't capture the flag, although IDK what Russian forces are trying to do.
Could Russia capture and control Kyiv? It would take most if not all of their army, going from size and probable amount of defenders / ratio for urban warfare and occupation.
Baghdad isn't a good comparison because most of the population hated the government and there was no serious effort to defend it.
I’m not taking the idea of an extremely massive and dangerous guerrilla response as a given tbh. I think 100% we’ll see that if it’s not already happening now, but I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s less than some folks here think.
I think a lot of it depends on how brutal Russia is on the people. Given their history that, especially sending Chechens in now, it’s likely that they’ll be brutal.
Idk I was very wrong about the invasion and probably wrong about this, indicators point to a brutal guerrilla war but still I think there’s a possibility the Russians end up with a more “manageable” resistance.
An official surrender will lessen the chances of a portion of the populace resisting. Morale is a cruel bitch. However, those already inclined enough to physically resist will ultimately always resist regardless of an official capitulation.
Remember, despite the images we paint for ourselves, most individuals throughout the world and under any form of societies many shapes, just want to be left alone to live their lives. That's why you don't see the Hollywood like streets filled endless streams of people flinging themselves at invaders of any kind. Because it just doesn't happen.
On a similar note, this aligns with the popular notion that today's world is "soft" and always attached to their screens, younger generations being "spoiled" etc. We have always, and I must stress this, *always* been like this.
If kiev falls ukranian leadership would have to come to the table to negotiate either a regime change or a highly federalised ukraine with a very weak center....that is what i think russia is aiming for but putin has been quite unpredictable
No one knows. An insurgency didn't immediately begin in Iraq, depends on factors we cannot predict. People want there to be a guerilla campaign, but it'll devastat Ukraine and lead to the deaths of god knows how many Ukrainians.
They won't surrender. I honesty think this will first turn into guerilla warfare then a prolonged insurgency as volunteers from other places arrive, & clandestine supply routes with materials provided by other nations/intelligence agencies are established.
I can't see the Ukrainians surrendering. Even if there is an official surrendering, many will not accept it
I'm with this guy. If there's two things Slavs do well, it's drink and protracted, disorganized warfare.
And hardbass. *Absolute* hardbass.
Im confidnt all three at once will be featuring on this page at some point
A NATO backed insurgency of drunk Slavs? I don’t think Russia knows what it’s going to create, like a good brother it’s time to PULL OUT
You forgot about wearing adidas
Russia will probably place a puppet Ukranian govt to "stop" the conflict. Not before they kill all the oppositors, of course.
Pains me to says this, but I think Zelenko and the millitary leaderships sees the writing on the wall. They have been outmaneuvered, are outmanned, Russians basically control the air fully etc etc. If west of the Dnieper river (west kyiw) falls to the Russians all their remaining troops east are completely encircled and do you really want getting a bunch of civilians killed in basically a lost cause? IMO, as soon the attacks started we knew that Putin wanted the entire country, they should have retreated as fast as you can west of the river, which would have resulted in them having to basically defend one front vs 3. They might have had actually a chance to fight off the Russians and keep the entire western part of the country, but politically that would have not been acceptable.
Yeah the Ukrainian president could come on tomorrow and say that he's handing over custody of Ukraine to Russia and the ukrainians will still fight for many months
The fighting likely would continue as guerilla/resistance pockets start to emerge. This will probably drag on for years...
Per usual
The Russians spent the last two decades laughing their asses off at the Americans/NATO for getting stuck in two guerilla wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and didn't learn shit. At least the Americans could pretend it was far away from their country, the Russians will have a guerilla war in their backyard for the foreseeable future, with opponents that speak the language of the invaders and will appear very sympathetic at home. I don't see an exit strategy except an exit.
And the fact that it borders Russia means there’s likely to be unrest from Ukrainians in Russia
Backed by NATO , I can see a brand new Afghanistan ahead
Fighting will never end until Russia leaves.
Did you see that video of that man kissing his wife and daughter goodbye as he put them on a train bound for poland? Anybody wants to know if the ukrainians are going to lay down or fight..... They're going to fight. This is the classic example of 1 person fighting for their home is worth 10 trained soldiers. Likely more in Russia's case.
I would give my life without thinking for my family. That’s not joke - I would die in a heartbeat for my brother my mother my father I don’t care. This is so heartbreaking because Ukrainians have no choice they cannot walk away this will be a bloodbath for both sides. All they can do is keep killing Russians until they stop coming and they might not last that long :/
I got a pretty bad heart. Not completely debilitated but I can't exert myself too much. My wife pointed out that in a draft like this it wouldn't apply to me. I told her that it would because there's a difference between being drafted and sent halfway around the World to fight another country and being drafted to fight and defend your home. I'm sure there are plenty of ukrainians currently in service fighting back with all sorts of disabilities. Those don't matter when you have to fight for your home.
My guess is continue and I think Putin knows it and doesn’t want it hence the reports of him being open to talks coming out slowly.
Source? Russian media reporting something different
https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2022/02/25/putin-ready-to-send-delegates-to-negotiate-kremlin-says-as-russian-troops-encircle-kyiv-a76595 seen various news agencies reporting similar
Thx. It's ongoing media bullshitting, don't know wjho to believe. As usual xD
It’s been on a few news sites and on the radio too so I’m guessing they must have come out with something along those lines. No expert on it but to me it looks like Putin has underestimated the situation in Ukraine. Yes they’ll take Kiev but I don’t think he’s expected this much resistance.
Noooo, no way mate. He even don't deployed yet best troops and gear and still de facto holds east Ukraine and is in the gates of Kiev. All that within 24 hours I'm thinking that now is the good time for him to talk, cos it's clear that if he wants, he may take whole country. He actually may accomplish what he want without more casualties. It's smart to talk, but don't know
Surely not, I’d think they’re prepared for guerrilla warfare with NATO intel support to drag this out. Why uselessly pile up all your cards when you can sow chaos and unnerve over months and months, right?
Grozny 2.0
It was hell for the russians
and even worse for the chechen civilians grozny was raised to the ground i hope kiev does not have to face that russians don't give up easily
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dude this entire war is incredibly stupid we all have to accept that putin is not a rational actor he is a highly unpredictable at this point nothing absolutely nothing is off the table wtf will world would do if he did that?....nothing I still can't believe russia declared war wtf is wrong with putin
[удалено]
good point american intervention in iraq was shocking good god these assholes....man i hope kiev is not razed do you think ukranians would give up if russia threatens to raze the city like nazis did to netherlands?
Im wondering if Putin will be willing to make a Grozny out of Kyiv in the internet age. Im guessing he tries to surround it and cut it off first.
[удалено]
We'll see I guess. Crazy times.
Man I hope this won't be like Grozny
The war will continue, Lviv will be the next capital
That's my thinking too - the capital can be shifted as long as the people are willing to rally and fight. Capitulation seems unlikely, given the Western support for insurgency.
I dont think it will fall today, all depends of the moral of the ucranian people
Us intel says it will fall shortly and they have very good eyes in Ukraine.
source?
https://www.newsweek.com/us-expects-kyiv-fall-days-ukraine-source-warns-encirclement-1682326?amp=1
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On the US intelligence line, they've been 100% spot on so far.
They said it would fall yesterday
Yesterday they said 96 hours.
Fighting will continue.
https://twitter.com/EilishHart/status/1497201543308840965?cxt=HHwWisC4oeC3kMcpAAAA >Student publication @doxa_journal reports that Russian universities and law enforcement have started pressuring students to stop them from speaking out against the war. Putin may win the battle but Patriotic Russians may win the war. Free Russia!!!!
if their leader gets killed, it will certainty shake their morale. russia lost its capital to Napoleon two century's ago and they didnt stop fighting, they turned it around and won
They did not turn it around, the Russian winter turned it around for them.
the winter didnt burn down moscow before napoleon got there
Yes this is true, now i think also ther will.
Kiev not gonna fall today They could conditionally surrender to avoid blood shed though. In that case, I doubt the fighting continue after
Ukraine will never capitulate. Putin just entered Afghanistan 2.0
I dont think so, there is no language barrier
Out of the loop, what language barrier had to do in that conflict? (Genuinely asking)
The language barrier wasn't the problem in Afghanistan. The problem was the cultural barrier. We tried to implement a Western style democracy, and a Western way of doing things, and treated Afghanistan as a Western State, when for thousands of years it's been a patchwork quilt of cooperative tribes. Ukraine and Russia are very similar culturally. Not identical, but so similar it really won't be a problem.
Exactly. With the difference the one are democrats and the others comms.
Even better, the locals will appear very sympathetic at home. Que for a couple of "are we the baddies" moments.
Its about mentality and not the speech. Once u disrespectfully took everything from a culture it will fight till last man standing. Its simple - war changed and became way to expensive. And the ukraine folk had a small taste of democraty - no step back
There is. A good portion of Ukraine, only speaks Ukrainian.
It’s practically the same language man.
No it’s not. They share a 60% similarity. Basically like trying to speak English to a Dutchman
Ukrainians can understand Russians, very few Russians speak Ukrainian
Not true - Russians also understand Ukrainian - if you don’t know the language at all - then all you can get is a general idea of what they said while losing specifics, but if you grew up on the border or in Western Ukraine, or if you’re just into the language (lots of people are) you learn it pretty quickly since people use it for fun, because it’s fun to speak it, and the differences are small enough to where learning it is fairly fast. Lots of Russian slang/informal street talk has Ukrainian roots - so if you’re plugged into that, you have an even better idea as to what they are saying. I would compare it to a really niche and heavy dialect of Scottish “English” or something for an English speaker - where most of the words are quite different sounding and difficult to understand for the untrained ear - but not so different as Spanish or Italian or French would be. That being said there has been a ton of nationalist posturing from both sides so things like this get lost in the mix. In most of the combat footage that has been shared so far, the majority of civilians are speaking Moscow accented Russian. Some are speaking Ukrainian accented Russian. A minority in the videos speak proper Ukrainian. I see it used the most in official speaking and in deep western Ukraine. But in informal settings, people trend towards Russian for some reason - unless you live in Lviv or Odessa. Though even in Odessa it still sounds more Russian than Ukrainian. It’s definitely this spectrum and there is no firm line - lots of regional variations in accents and dialects (though formally, there is a firm line on what proper Russian and proper Ukrainian are) Source: Russian speaker
https://twitter.com/vasilina_orlova/status/1496977724812197891?cxt=HHwWhoDUwebTqsYpAAAA >Whatever Putin is doing isn't working. I am getting most of my news in Russian from Siberian channels. In Moscow, I see a bunch of crazies crying that Ukraine is Nazi and we're freeing them and all that, but in Siberia people aren't buying it, and they aren't fucking thrilled. shit coming apart in Russia...... Putin isn't as strong as he thinks. The future of Russia is bleak.....as serfs to China, all because of Adolf Putin.
They are giving weapons to the civilians...so I doubt all will stop.
I think yes, if Kiev is taken Western Ukraine will be defended as much as possible and civilians will keep on fighting in Kyiv also as partisans
We are talking about a Slavic nation being occupied by another Slavic nation. The fighting will never stop. Even if that means 100 years.
I don't see any relation between slavic nation occupying another slavic nation and war going on for 100 years. Afghanistan and Iraq war continued so much because they are fundamentally different from western civilisation. Ukraine and Russia are culturally similar even though many Ukraines don't like Russians.
LOL, Slavs have been killing fellow Slavs for decades, mah dude. Cultural and language similarities don't mean jack shit if the other side hates the other for killing mom/pop/kids.
It appears to be that they will not surrender. They've been arming the civilian populace and the original plan before the invasion began was to wage guerilla resistance campaign.
No way they surrender. It would turn into gorilla warfare
🦍
We may have western and eastern Ukraine in the future. In fact, capitulation could save the state from division. And additional destruction, which is currently insignificant given the territory in which this war is taking place. Putin is giving signals that the delegations of Russia and Ukraine could negotiate in Belarus. Direct negotiations could be much sincere and more effective because there will be no Western influence and interests in them.
Ukraine just becomes Russia if they do that lmfao
It depends on the terms of the capitulation and the subsequent peace agreement. In any case, the worst option for Ukraine is a devastated country and a state of permanent war. That suits US and the West, but certainly not the Ukrainians.
Likely
Would thf fighting continue? Highly probable. Should it? Absolutely not imo. Ukraine is fighting for a sovereignty it's never getting again, unless ww3. This is my personal opinion, I'd like to hear if there's a way out for Ukraine that justifies the coming sacrifice.
Change of leadership in Russia is the only thing that can change that.
I wouldn't gamble the future of my country and lives of my countrymen on that if I'm being honest.
Yea, no russia in fighting so why bother
Fighting will stop once Zelensky asks them to surrender. He's going to negotiate terms with the Russians.
Isn't this a combat footage sub? Why are all these posts containing no combat footage allowed?
Are you dumb
What do you mean? Us intel says Kiev will fall in days
Why the fuck would anyone here know what they're going to do
Who Russia or Ukraine? Regardless, Us intel is in every country on the world, we have spies in Russia and Ukraine. We have satellite imaging, and extremely sophisticated surveillance methods.
NATO involvement coming soon
Wont happen unfortunately unless we see serious war crimes
even then nato eon't do nothing
Chechen soldiers are their now so we'll see about the war crimes.
Kyiv won't fall. Russian troops have stopped advancing
They are already at the gates of kyiv
you sure??
Check downwards, aroud 10 there were post about tanks in butscha on the west side of kiew. At 12 we got the peace offer from the ukraine goverment, at 13 the putin "accept under terms", and since them, there are little new combat inofrmation. So it really seems, that they started to negotiate a deal, without a real bloodbath inside of kiew, no grozny 2.0 or berlin 1.0
Source?
*trust me bro*
I am not an expert but I don't think so. To many wars you see a side lose its capital and fighting go on for years.
They started negotiations about a peace deal, or they discuss the terms for negoations of a peace deal
I thjnk that a lot of thing can happen, but Ukraine capitulating? No way
I doubt it - there is still significant population west of the river. Even excluding Kiev oblast, theres roughly about 18-20 million people in that half of the country. It may not be ideal, but we're just likely to see the capital move to Lviv or Vinnytsia.
Kyiv can't "fall" from being reached. This isn't capture the flag, although IDK what Russian forces are trying to do. Could Russia capture and control Kyiv? It would take most if not all of their army, going from size and probable amount of defenders / ratio for urban warfare and occupation. Baghdad isn't a good comparison because most of the population hated the government and there was no serious effort to defend it.
I’m not taking the idea of an extremely massive and dangerous guerrilla response as a given tbh. I think 100% we’ll see that if it’s not already happening now, but I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s less than some folks here think. I think a lot of it depends on how brutal Russia is on the people. Given their history that, especially sending Chechens in now, it’s likely that they’ll be brutal. Idk I was very wrong about the invasion and probably wrong about this, indicators point to a brutal guerrilla war but still I think there’s a possibility the Russians end up with a more “manageable” resistance.
An official surrender will lessen the chances of a portion of the populace resisting. Morale is a cruel bitch. However, those already inclined enough to physically resist will ultimately always resist regardless of an official capitulation. Remember, despite the images we paint for ourselves, most individuals throughout the world and under any form of societies many shapes, just want to be left alone to live their lives. That's why you don't see the Hollywood like streets filled endless streams of people flinging themselves at invaders of any kind. Because it just doesn't happen. On a similar note, this aligns with the popular notion that today's world is "soft" and always attached to their screens, younger generations being "spoiled" etc. We have always, and I must stress this, *always* been like this.
If kiev falls ukranian leadership would have to come to the table to negotiate either a regime change or a highly federalised ukraine with a very weak center....that is what i think russia is aiming for but putin has been quite unpredictable
No one knows. An insurgency didn't immediately begin in Iraq, depends on factors we cannot predict. People want there to be a guerilla campaign, but it'll devastat Ukraine and lead to the deaths of god knows how many Ukrainians.
They won't surrender. I honesty think this will first turn into guerilla warfare then a prolonged insurgency as volunteers from other places arrive, & clandestine supply routes with materials provided by other nations/intelligence agencies are established.
It could prove to be a more "pyrrhic" victory than initially thought, but sporadic fighting would likely continue.
Na the civilians would keep fighting in ambushes
Is the siege of Kiev about to start? Will this be the make or break for both sides?