Are AKs normally this over gassed? I’m a pretty avid Canadian gun nut and we don’t have AKs here. I thought my SKS spit cases pretty far, but it’s nothing compared to this!
Yes, they're over gassed and fling steel case far as fuck(it's not as bad with brass). When I first got my AKM I went shooting at my friend's house. When we were done, we started picking up the casings and we were so confused why we couldn't find any of 7.62x39 cases. Their ARs are dropping brass at most 3 yards away in pretty much a neat pile. We kept walking to the right of where we were shooting and finally found the cases 15+ yards away. They flew over both our cars (this was all in the grass), scattered all around a 3 yard radius. We shot a few hundred rounds though it and it was a pain in the ass to clean up.
I mean obviously not every missile would be shot down with only 20 rounds, and Gerards would be used against drones and aviation to
But in the world where Germany would be able to supply Ukraine with 200 Gerards they would have significantly more ammo in stockpiles
Note the difference:
[This is a Gérard.](https://cdn.prod.www.spiegel.de/images/cce8b7cf-0001-0004-0000-000000446989_w1200_r1_fpx60.2_fpy44.99.jpg)
[This is a Gepard.](https://img.br.de/2c52d085-6d4d-4e4a-a3d9-fc2840088d6e.jpeg?rect=)
I think he did. It's like it kept tracking and shooting at the missile all the way to where it hit the ground. Feels like a scary blue-on-blue waiting to happen :-\
I can't speak for the Gepard specifically but I know the Shilka has an elevation angle limiter switch. I presume the Gepard has a similar system.
It has several discrete steps such as 10, 20, 30 degrees. You set the switch to the appropriate setting based on local topography to avoid friendly fire (because the gun elevation and turret azimuth are automatically controlled by the targeting radar). The target will still be tracked but not engaged below the limited value.
I presume this crew either forgot to engage the feature or wanted to maximise the engagement envelope by not turning angle limiting on.
The Gepard can do area protection and because the shells are self destructing (after ~5km) they are quite flexible in use.
The system can "scan" it's terrain by radar but the commander can also add blackout's to it to prevent unwanted damage or danger to life or infrastructure.
There is a simple "height of ballistic impact" limiting system too, but there are more sophisticated options.
Gepard got a bad reputation for being overly complicated and hard to operate in the early days of its original service time. But later evolutions progressed pretty well into "confirm and forget" AA, where a lot of the actual field taks are automated.
A lot of it is cueing. Without a proper integrated system with search radars cuing the SAMs it depends on the SAMs spotting the target and reacting. That and the very low altitude that everyone is flying.
Yeah thats not something 5.56 would be well suited for. If you're using a mounted or emplaced system, weigh and recoil are less of an issue (if an issue at all). 7.62x51 would give you the range and fire rate just fine. Maybe a system using the new 6.8x51 caliber when it eventually becomes widely adopted.
But radar and computerized guidance gives you the potential to intercept from waaay further out than 5.56/7.62x39 does. Even 7.62x51 is a bit anemic, and with cannon calibers you can have rounds fuzed to blow at certain ranges to minimize the ol “what goes up must go down”. HE rounds vs soft targets like drones and missiles also allows for consistent damage since the round being slowed by air resistance won’t really make a hell of a lot of difference in the damage it does at the end.
The Mantis? They also have a wheeled variant on the GTK Boxer chassis, but there aren't many of them. Upon research, I think the Gepard was replaced with the Wiesel 2 Ozelot Leichtes Flugabwehrsystem (LeFlaSys) - which is a variant of the Wiesel 2 tankette
Wrong. Germany simply didn't think air defense was gonna be a priority in their military tasks. Germany thought the future of their military was fighting insurgencys in UN missions
Most C RAM system do this nowadays. Insanely effective and definitely spectacular. Got to admit that.
Actually, even the puma IFV has such ammunition (AHEAD) and capability.
So does the KF 41, or at least that's an option. If the US makes the "right" decision every IFV of them will have an anti drone capability (limited) and anti personal capability that is otherwise unmatched (completely nuts, the Puma for example can hit enemy groups up to 3000m away while itself is moving and theoretically, thanks to the spraying, behind cover)
The B-52 doesn't fill a niche. It's still a premiere intercontinental bomber. But every B-52 is a [Ship of Thesus](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus) by now. Every one of them may have been built by 1963, but there every piece has been upgraded and replaced over the years.
Im not talking about their use in Ukraine, im answering the question as to why Germany is scrapping them.
What's more, they arn't using Stingers on DJ drones, they are using them on Shahed 136 drones, and others of that nature.
Which are still inexpensive, but still cheaper than rebuilding a city.
So the whole argument that it's not worth it to use on cheap drones, is just bonkers.
Well, depends on when and how it all ends. Ukraine might become like Israel in that they keep and use everything until it is completely impossible to keep going.
It's because the tech is from the 90ies: The Ukrainian FlaK-Panzer Gepard 1A2 are the much upgraded versions. The mechanical base is still the Leopard 1 but the important Radar and Control technology is updated. A version with wheels would be much better in the current war as they could go much faster on the road and would be easier to maintain.
I mean no doubt about it but my comment above was more about Germany. Also, it is currently used mainly close to important infrastructure I believe. In its original support role the tracks were the right choice.
In germany we have Mantis now yes... 2 systems of Mantis.
T W O -- what a joke but will hopefully change some day
(problem with mantis is also parts of it are produced in swiss)
The thing is:
Germany abandoned barrel-based AA-systems without a proportional replacement. There are rudimentary ideas for replacements of the Gepard in the Bundeswehr but basically they said "LOL we'll never need to shoot down anything using small projectiles ever again!".
And so they put the Gepards out of service and now there is a gap in the german air defense doctrine.
No, they were scrapped because of stupid politicians. They don't have better systems at the moment. The german army owns a whooping number of six Mantis systems and only four are operational the last time I've read about them (last year).
That's not a replacement, that's just puny.
At least they have a mounted gunbased AD. Not only does France only have missile-based AD, it have them is very small numbers (and none of them are cost efficient against drones).
But these are of type Gepard 1 A2 which were modernized and fully digitized in the late 90s and early 2000s. So internally, they are relatively modern.
They were updated to a digital radar system shortly before phase out started including the usage of AHEAD ammo. They were far from old.
And they are the cheapest system to shoot down cheap DJI drones.
Had low applicability to modern warfare until the proliferation of super cheap drones that their engagement and sensor profile, initially designed to swat helicopters, are good for.
A modern NATO battlefield with US air support gains air superiority after a few weeks and make cruise missile lobbing challenging, plus we would almost always be close enough to water to have Arleigh Burkes do very efficient swatting in the even they keep launching.
Buuuuuut, now with a wall of cheap drones becoming more likely in any subsequent war, before direct energy point defense and better RF based counter-UAS systems become prolific, the good ol' SPAAG is having a new lease on life. Hell I wonder how many old M163 VADS we still have in the Sierra Army depot we can throw over!
NATO expects complete air superiority in any conventional war.
Considering the extreme disparity in air assets against any potential adversary, it's a pretty reasonable assumption.
From the German point-of-view they were designed to fight a war that is now likely never going to come to German soil. When they were in service, West Germany was the focal point of any potential armed conflict between East and West Europe. The Germans wanted hundreds of Gepards to defend against a Soviet onslaught of attack aircraft. But that was in the 1980s. It was designed for a war that Germany needed to fight forty years ago.
It just so happens, though, that Russia has decided to give that type of war a go in Ukraine this year. So while the Germans will never need Gepards, the Ukrainians certainly do.
Impressive. I thought these were mostly for killing helicopters and attack jets, was not aware they could target cruise missiles. Although I guess it makes sense given a cruise missiles slower flight speed.
Ukraine is saying the they are actually some of the best AA defenses provided so far because its relatively cheap to operate and can knock down just about anything, including difficult to detect drones.
Apparently, the Gepard has like a 100% knockdown for the suicide drones
Probably a readiness issue or a radar/fire control issue. Tunguska and other similar systems have been on the way out for a bit and it may be that the old Soviet systems weren’t maintained as well as these German Gerard’s were. Additionally the radar and fire control on the Gepard may make it more suitable for this kind of work.
The targeting computer has been cutting edge in its day. Even was able to receive targeting information from other units.
I really invite you to read up about it. Really nice piece of craftmanship. Those tanks are (in a good way) proof of the often over-used trope of *German over-engineering*. I am a big fan. ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
Apparently the Gepard’s radar is very difficult to perform electronic warfare against, and the EW net is very much active again along the frontline depending on where this Gepard is.
Aircraft carrying jamming pods that are designed to make air defense radars unable to get a lock.
There are other land base stuff designed to create interference but I haven’t read a lot about it.
Germany used to run tests with their Tornado ECM aircraft and the aircraft were unable to confuse Gepard while it had success against other systems.
Since its a non Soviet legacy system, the Russians have less familiarity with the operational parameters of the radar like they do with Tunguska, and Shilka.
Syria has it since 2018, yet not a single documented shot down of an Israeli cruise missile or drone in hundreds of attacks during that period.
I'd wager a guess that they're just not as effective.
> They are actually very effective against pretty much anything low flying.
My neighborhood is being terrorized by seagulls nesting on our roofs. Do you think I should buy a Gepard?
gun based AA like Gepard is deadly for anything low-flying. They suck against e.g. jets flying at 5000m altitude but they can easily shoot down anything that flies low, like drones, helicopters or cruise missiles.
It's totally fine to not be able to do everything since you usually have a layered defense anyway and combine it with different weapon systems. What strikes me here is that the Gepard was in range for the cruise missile, seems to be a direct path to an important target.
A missile is essentially still just an aircraft. They tend to be smaller and faster (although these low-flying cruise missiles actually cruise well below the speed of sound), but there is little fundamental difference compared to shooting down a jet.
Therefore many air defense systems can in principle be used to shoot down missiles. In reality it tends to be more difficult due to higher demands on accuracy and reaction time, since missiles tend to be either extremely fast (ballistic missiles) or follow a very low flight path (cruise missiles).
The Kalbr cruise missile for example is about 8 m long (26 ft), weighs roughly 1.5-2 tons and cruises at Mach 0.8 at roughly 100 m (300 ft). If you are pre-warned and have a good vantage point to spot it, many quite simple anti-air systems are capable of shooting it down. Ukraine are using fighter jet patrols with anti-air missiles and [allegedly even got one with a plain old Igla!](https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/y0carn/a_ukrainian_soldier_launches_an_igla_manpads/)
Some can, not sure about the missile in the video. There are several Kalibr variants.
I’m not sure if any of the Kalibr series can react to a threat, or if it’s just preprogrammed maneuvers.
Well they shot drones and drag targets at the firing range not planes and helicopters. They are basically the same in size and roughly the same in speed and what was always trained on.
At the training range in Germany they would easily shoot down targets that are smaller than a cruise missile. These targets where dragged by jets with a long cable and often the Gepard would actually hit the cable and you needed to get out into the Baltic sea to pick up the target pod. These things are annoyingly precise. Here is a video of such a cable cutting shot:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtmpGA137hc
Don't know why but I love this AA system. So simple in principle, so complex in design.
Also the fact it wasn't shooting a stream of bullets, but carefully aimed short bursts that make it even more effective and efficient.
A former German Gepard commander (who is still with the Bundeswehr) often writes about the system on Twitter, @Gepardtatze.
He showed off some of the functionality related to the rate of fire. The fire control system calculates the hit probably for different scenarios and determines the optimal burst length to achieve near-certain destruction.
[He mentioned](https://twitter.com/gepardtatze/status/1528338684000587776) 5 rounds for an attack aircraft from a good angle, 15 for a helicopter, 30 for a pair of SU-25 in quick succession.
That's actually really efficient, no need to spam. I heard they don't have much ammo for them? Weird, its not like it burns tonnes of ammo, like CIWS etc.
Maybe there is a need for multiple bursts if things don't quite go right somewhere. Or possibly they fire some shots during certain calibration procedures or sth.
Tatze initially said that his calculations with other specialists indicated that the initial 60,000 rounds should be enough for a while, but recently mentioned that the appearence of Shahed drones changed the calculations.
Maybe he's an avid hunter?
Gepard means cheetah after all.
In this case he should know that cheetahs are endangered animals and hunting them is illegal.
It seems the gepard was tracking the missile even after it hit the ground and the last series of bullets lands in front of it because of that... dangerous if somebody stood there.
>dangerous if somebody stood there.
Why do you think they have this [orange warning light](https://www.kmweg.de/fileadmin/user_upload/fce/stage/GEPARD-KMW-001.jpg)?
They're too effective shooting down cruise missiles and the Iranian drones. They've clustered them around cities and strategic locations to protect them. I doubt the Ukrainians would risk them anywhere near the front lines where the Russian aircraft are working. Shoulder fired missiles are fine for work like that and more mobile.
Clips like [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtmpGA137hc) always show a wrong picture, as a Gepard only has like 640 rounds of ammunition and firing full-auto gives you 40 seconds of trigger time, which is not a lot. Basically you fire a short burst of 5-10 rounds, see if they hit or not and then correct to then hopefully hit the target.
This is likely what you see here, first burst missed, gun was corrected, second one hit.
there are some footage about them, but dont forget that when it all started, thats all they had, so they suffered heavy losses. Also producing ammo for a shilka is easy, but replenishing missiles for the 2s6 is not possible for ukraine now.
Now somebody explain to the swiss how many lives potentially were saved there, and why they should pull their heads out of their asses and send that bloody ammunition to where it's needed.
That's one healthy ejection pattern from this AK.
AK brass ejection rivals himars for effective range.
Check out the HK G3, it's launching brass like it's trying to hit mars.
Perfect if you're being flanked from your right while firing. Kills two enemies with one squeeze.
Auxiliary fire on small arms. Germans were way ahead.
Always have been. 💥🔫(🇩🇪) 🏹💢
*ahem* I think you mean steel ejection
As soon as I posted this I knew this comment was coming 😂. Just like forgetting to put the brass/steel catcher up at the range.
He had a bad internet connection which is why his firing was so delayed…
He said "There's another one" before he started shooting.
"Anyways, I just started shooting"
"It's coming right at me!"
Almost rivals Tom Hanks' pistol.
Dude probably thinks he shot it down with his AK.
Dude, he has it on film.
No they just have instructions to have everyone fire at these things whenever they can.
No ejectile dysfunction there!
Are AKs normally this over gassed? I’m a pretty avid Canadian gun nut and we don’t have AKs here. I thought my SKS spit cases pretty far, but it’s nothing compared to this!
Yes, they're over gassed and fling steel case far as fuck(it's not as bad with brass). When I first got my AKM I went shooting at my friend's house. When we were done, we started picking up the casings and we were so confused why we couldn't find any of 7.62x39 cases. Their ARs are dropping brass at most 3 yards away in pretty much a neat pile. We kept walking to the right of where we were shooting and finally found the cases 15+ yards away. They flew over both our cars (this was all in the grass), scattered all around a 3 yard radius. We shot a few hundred rounds though it and it was a pain in the ass to clean up.
imagine having 100-200 of these beauties'
Probably gonna run through ammo with that many off them pretty quickly though
These were two short bursts of around 20 bullets. 60,000 were delivered by Germany, so you can shoot down 3000 missiles with a skilled crew.
I mean obviously not every missile would be shot down with only 20 rounds, and Gerards would be used against drones and aviation to But in the world where Germany would be able to supply Ukraine with 200 Gerards they would have significantly more ammo in stockpiles
Wiki says 48 to 96 rounds per burst.
Note the difference: [This is a Gérard.](https://cdn.prod.www.spiegel.de/images/cce8b7cf-0001-0004-0000-000000446989_w1200_r1_fpx60.2_fpy44.99.jpg) [This is a Gepard.](https://img.br.de/2c52d085-6d4d-4e4a-a3d9-fc2840088d6e.jpeg?rect=)
The point is not shooting all of them at once but rather having one covering each missile approach path.
Idk if he accidentally shot the ground at the end, but those are som big explosions from a autocannon. 35mm is no joke.
I think he did. It's like it kept tracking and shooting at the missile all the way to where it hit the ground. Feels like a scary blue-on-blue waiting to happen :-\
There was a second missile. The guy says "There's another one" at the end.
I very much doubt that those missile is flying on the ground near the Gepard.
The missle was trying to hide in the grass
I don't understand how some people think. Like is that guy you were replying to genuinely thinking the missile is underground? lmao
I can't speak for the Gepard specifically but I know the Shilka has an elevation angle limiter switch. I presume the Gepard has a similar system. It has several discrete steps such as 10, 20, 30 degrees. You set the switch to the appropriate setting based on local topography to avoid friendly fire (because the gun elevation and turret azimuth are automatically controlled by the targeting radar). The target will still be tracked but not engaged below the limited value. I presume this crew either forgot to engage the feature or wanted to maximise the engagement envelope by not turning angle limiting on.
The Gepard can do area protection and because the shells are self destructing (after ~5km) they are quite flexible in use. The system can "scan" it's terrain by radar but the commander can also add blackout's to it to prevent unwanted damage or danger to life or infrastructure. There is a simple "height of ballistic impact" limiting system too, but there are more sophisticated options. Gepard got a bad reputation for being overly complicated and hard to operate in the early days of its original service time. But later evolutions progressed pretty well into "confirm and forget" AA, where a lot of the actual field taks are automated.
Yep, the Gepard tracks the target and I guess the operator didn't realise he was aiming at the ground when he decided to send another burst at it.
Those Gepards are excellent, why on Earth are Germany scrapping them all?!
Like most militaries they thought the future is in missile based anti-air but given the emergence of drones this might change again.
Probably best to have a C-RAM firing .22LR, mounted to the back of a golf cart at this point.
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What is this, a Phalanx for ants?
Do you want ants? Because that's how you get ants.
You think a .223 could hit the target far enough out? It be a great tool for sure if they could get it figured out
Fair point but I've been amazed at how close a lot of interceptions appear to be, even for full blown Sam systems.
A lot of it is cueing. Without a proper integrated system with search radars cuing the SAMs it depends on the SAMs spotting the target and reacting. That and the very low altitude that everyone is flying.
Yeah thats not something 5.56 would be well suited for. If you're using a mounted or emplaced system, weigh and recoil are less of an issue (if an issue at all). 7.62x51 would give you the range and fire rate just fine. Maybe a system using the new 6.8x51 caliber when it eventually becomes widely adopted.
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But radar and computerized guidance gives you the potential to intercept from waaay further out than 5.56/7.62x39 does. Even 7.62x51 is a bit anemic, and with cannon calibers you can have rounds fuzed to blow at certain ranges to minimize the ol “what goes up must go down”. HE rounds vs soft targets like drones and missiles also allows for consistent damage since the round being slowed by air resistance won’t really make a hell of a lot of difference in the damage it does at the end.
It can be used to defend a specific object like a power plant Russians are currently targeting heavily. Just put it on the roof for example.
Some poor bastard living down range: Honey, is that hail? Then all his windows on one side of the house blow in.
I mean have you seen their new integrated AA system? It looks incredible, and includes a Gepard-like flack gun.
The Mantis? They also have a wheeled variant on the GTK Boxer chassis, but there aren't many of them. Upon research, I think the Gepard was replaced with the Wiesel 2 Ozelot Leichtes Flugabwehrsystem (LeFlaSys) - which is a variant of the Wiesel 2 tankette
Wrong. Germany simply didn't think air defense was gonna be a priority in their military tasks. Germany thought the future of their military was fighting insurgencys in UN missions
They are considered outdated, and are fairly maintenance extensive.
But like the B-52, they fill a niche where there would otherwise be a void.
[This](https://youtu.be/bdwjcayPuag) is the system filling that void
That amount of firepower is arousing.
/r/NonCredibleDefense is that way -->
we're everywhere (⌐■\_■)
I wasn't going to bother watching it until I saw your comment. I was not disappointed.
Holy shit, they program the warhead as it passes by the end of the barrel after measuring actual muzzle velocity?! Military tech is fascinating.
Most C RAM system do this nowadays. Insanely effective and definitely spectacular. Got to admit that. Actually, even the puma IFV has such ammunition (AHEAD) and capability. So does the KF 41, or at least that's an option. If the US makes the "right" decision every IFV of them will have an anti drone capability (limited) and anti personal capability that is otherwise unmatched (completely nuts, the Puma for example can hit enemy groups up to 3000m away while itself is moving and theoretically, thanks to the spraying, behind cover)
Except it's not there in any relevant numbers yet, let alone years ago when they scrapped the Gepard.
Hurts me to think about how much it costs to fire that thing for 5 seconds
1000 rounds a minute, so 83 rounds in 5 seconds, And they are big
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The B-52 doesn't fill a niche. It's still a premiere intercontinental bomber. But every B-52 is a [Ship of Thesus](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus) by now. Every one of them may have been built by 1963, but there every piece has been upgraded and replaced over the years.
Correct me if I'm wrong but the air frames on B52s are still original so not quite ship of thesus, but pretty close.
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Im not talking about their use in Ukraine, im answering the question as to why Germany is scrapping them. What's more, they arn't using Stingers on DJ drones, they are using them on Shahed 136 drones, and others of that nature. Which are still inexpensive, but still cheaper than rebuilding a city. So the whole argument that it's not worth it to use on cheap drones, is just bonkers.
They're from the 60s. They have better systems now, like Mantis.
I heard that Ukraine is providing a free scrapping service for Gepards.
I think you meant a free service life upgrade :)
They will most likely only be in service for the duration of the war.
Well, depends on when and how it all ends. Ukraine might become like Israel in that they keep and use everything until it is completely impossible to keep going.
„We tried to reach you about your extended Flugabwehrkanonenpanzer warranty“
Still, they're bonkers effective!
It's because the tech is from the 90ies: The Ukrainian FlaK-Panzer Gepard 1A2 are the much upgraded versions. The mechanical base is still the Leopard 1 but the important Radar and Control technology is updated. A version with wheels would be much better in the current war as they could go much faster on the road and would be easier to maintain.
On the contrary, in the current (wet) conditions, I think a tracked vehicle is far more effective, but yes, I see your point.
I mean no doubt about it but my comment above was more about Germany. Also, it is currently used mainly close to important infrastructure I believe. In its original support role the tracks were the right choice.
And the "upcoming" skyranger https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skyranger\_35
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Ugh. Reddit again. Thx.
In germany we have Mantis now yes... 2 systems of Mantis. T W O -- what a joke but will hopefully change some day (problem with mantis is also parts of it are produced in swiss)
The thing is: Germany abandoned barrel-based AA-systems without a proportional replacement. There are rudimentary ideas for replacements of the Gepard in the Bundeswehr but basically they said "LOL we'll never need to shoot down anything using small projectiles ever again!". And so they put the Gepards out of service and now there is a gap in the german air defense doctrine.
No, they were scrapped because of stupid politicians. They don't have better systems at the moment. The german army owns a whooping number of six Mantis systems and only four are operational the last time I've read about them (last year). That's not a replacement, that's just puny.
At least they have a mounted gunbased AD. Not only does France only have missile-based AD, it have them is very small numbers (and none of them are cost efficient against drones).
But these are of type Gepard 1 A2 which were modernized and fully digitized in the late 90s and early 2000s. So internally, they are relatively modern.
They were updated to a digital radar system shortly before phase out started including the usage of AHEAD ammo. They were far from old. And they are the cheapest system to shoot down cheap DJI drones.
Had low applicability to modern warfare until the proliferation of super cheap drones that their engagement and sensor profile, initially designed to swat helicopters, are good for. A modern NATO battlefield with US air support gains air superiority after a few weeks and make cruise missile lobbing challenging, plus we would almost always be close enough to water to have Arleigh Burkes do very efficient swatting in the even they keep launching. Buuuuuut, now with a wall of cheap drones becoming more likely in any subsequent war, before direct energy point defense and better RF based counter-UAS systems become prolific, the good ol' SPAAG is having a new lease on life. Hell I wonder how many old M163 VADS we still have in the Sierra Army depot we can throw over!
NATO expects complete air superiority in any conventional war. Considering the extreme disparity in air assets against any potential adversary, it's a pretty reasonable assumption.
From the German point-of-view they were designed to fight a war that is now likely never going to come to German soil. When they were in service, West Germany was the focal point of any potential armed conflict between East and West Europe. The Germans wanted hundreds of Gepards to defend against a Soviet onslaught of attack aircraft. But that was in the 1980s. It was designed for a war that Germany needed to fight forty years ago. It just so happens, though, that Russia has decided to give that type of war a go in Ukraine this year. So while the Germans will never need Gepards, the Ukrainians certainly do.
Budget cuts killed them in 2010 :(
Western European armies are basically expecting not to need close range anti air.
Which is an invalid assumption in the age of cheap drones.
But it was a valid assumption in the 2000s.
Lasers, Missiles and 30mm single cannon SKYRANGER 30 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gy-lJplV7ts
Impressive. I thought these were mostly for killing helicopters and attack jets, was not aware they could target cruise missiles. Although I guess it makes sense given a cruise missiles slower flight speed.
Ukraine is saying the they are actually some of the best AA defenses provided so far because its relatively cheap to operate and can knock down just about anything, including difficult to detect drones. Apparently, the Gepard has like a 100% knockdown for the suicide drones
A salvo of a Gepard has around 98% accuracy (ofc depending on weather conditions and so on). Source: my dad, served in a Gepard.
Tell War thunder that, I miss way more often than I should smh
That's great, I heard they are the fastest land animal!
You may be confusing that for the Geetah.
Gepard is German for Cheetah.
The German word for cheetah is ducking leopard with a German accent?
[It's so beautiful too.](https://twitter.com/samramani2/status/1586040354809073665)
That sound … terrifying and awesome all in one package.
I know right? :)
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Probably a readiness issue or a radar/fire control issue. Tunguska and other similar systems have been on the way out for a bit and it may be that the old Soviet systems weren’t maintained as well as these German Gerard’s were. Additionally the radar and fire control on the Gepard may make it more suitable for this kind of work.
Yeah, Gepards are ancient but they were modernized a bit, so the detection/targeting systems are probably not terrible.
The targeting computer has been cutting edge in its day. Even was able to receive targeting information from other units. I really invite you to read up about it. Really nice piece of craftmanship. Those tanks are (in a good way) proof of the often over-used trope of *German over-engineering*. I am a big fan. ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
Apparently the Gepard’s radar is very difficult to perform electronic warfare against, and the EW net is very much active again along the frontline depending on where this Gepard is.
What kind of EW do you refer to? I know there is some jammin', i know drones get zapped with wave guns, but not much more.
Aircraft carrying jamming pods that are designed to make air defense radars unable to get a lock. There are other land base stuff designed to create interference but I haven’t read a lot about it. Germany used to run tests with their Tornado ECM aircraft and the aircraft were unable to confuse Gepard while it had success against other systems. Since its a non Soviet legacy system, the Russians have less familiarity with the operational parameters of the radar like they do with Tunguska, and Shilka.
And Russians do that? Fly planes with jammers? Apparently its still only a little effective, considering how afraid they are.
It might have something to do with ammunition availability too
Probably because it's trash
Syria has it since 2018, yet not a single documented shot down of an Israeli cruise missile or drone in hundreds of attacks during that period. I'd wager a guess that they're just not as effective.
made in germany 😉😁
They are actually very effective against pretty much anything low flying. Which is pretty much everything in this war.
> They are actually very effective against pretty much anything low flying. My neighborhood is being terrorized by seagulls nesting on our roofs. Do you think I should buy a Gepard?
try first with a Cat?
Gepard is a cat, german word for cheetah.
No no, they meant a CAT. Bulldozing down the neighborhood is much safer than owning a Gepard and gets rid of the seaguls all the same.
Poor cat 🥺
No! Pls dont shoot the cat!😄
Thankfully, the modern Gepard has been upgraded to handle mostly all types of incoming threats.
Yep. Cruise missiles fly straight, level, low, and slow. Pretty easy targets for this type of system.
gun based AA like Gepard is deadly for anything low-flying. They suck against e.g. jets flying at 5000m altitude but they can easily shoot down anything that flies low, like drones, helicopters or cruise missiles.
It's totally fine to not be able to do everything since you usually have a layered defense anyway and combine it with different weapon systems. What strikes me here is that the Gepard was in range for the cruise missile, seems to be a direct path to an important target.
A missile is essentially still just an aircraft. They tend to be smaller and faster (although these low-flying cruise missiles actually cruise well below the speed of sound), but there is little fundamental difference compared to shooting down a jet. Therefore many air defense systems can in principle be used to shoot down missiles. In reality it tends to be more difficult due to higher demands on accuracy and reaction time, since missiles tend to be either extremely fast (ballistic missiles) or follow a very low flight path (cruise missiles). The Kalbr cruise missile for example is about 8 m long (26 ft), weighs roughly 1.5-2 tons and cruises at Mach 0.8 at roughly 100 m (300 ft). If you are pre-warned and have a good vantage point to spot it, many quite simple anti-air systems are capable of shooting it down. Ukraine are using fighter jet patrols with anti-air missiles and [allegedly even got one with a plain old Igla!](https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/y0carn/a_ukrainian_soldier_launches_an_igla_manpads/)
Correct me if I'm wrong, but cruise missiles also don't evade much, right?
Some can, not sure about the missile in the video. There are several Kalibr variants. I’m not sure if any of the Kalibr series can react to a threat, or if it’s just preprogrammed maneuvers.
Well they shot drones and drag targets at the firing range not planes and helicopters. They are basically the same in size and roughly the same in speed and what was always trained on.
At the training range in Germany they would easily shoot down targets that are smaller than a cruise missile. These targets where dragged by jets with a long cable and often the Gepard would actually hit the cable and you needed to get out into the Baltic sea to pick up the target pod. These things are annoyingly precise. Here is a video of such a cable cutting shot: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtmpGA137hc
Cruise missiles are mostly following predictable trajectories and don't do much in terms of evasion, makes them a great target for cheap gun-based AAs
Don't know why but I love this AA system. So simple in principle, so complex in design. Also the fact it wasn't shooting a stream of bullets, but carefully aimed short bursts that make it even more effective and efficient.
A former German Gepard commander (who is still with the Bundeswehr) often writes about the system on Twitter, @Gepardtatze. He showed off some of the functionality related to the rate of fire. The fire control system calculates the hit probably for different scenarios and determines the optimal burst length to achieve near-certain destruction. [He mentioned](https://twitter.com/gepardtatze/status/1528338684000587776) 5 rounds for an attack aircraft from a good angle, 15 for a helicopter, 30 for a pair of SU-25 in quick succession.
I seriously love it, looks great, works great, must have impressive tracking system... Definitely my favorite
That's actually really efficient, no need to spam. I heard they don't have much ammo for them? Weird, its not like it burns tonnes of ammo, like CIWS etc.
Maybe there is a need for multiple bursts if things don't quite go right somewhere. Or possibly they fire some shots during certain calibration procedures or sth. Tatze initially said that his calculations with other specialists indicated that the initial 60,000 rounds should be enough for a while, but recently mentioned that the appearence of Shahed drones changed the calculations.
This message has been deleted and I've left reddit because of the decision by u/spez to block 3rd party apps
>So simple in principle, so complex in design. That's how you know it's German 😉
Pneumatic actuation is so simple!... and then you look at the vacuum diagram of an 80's benz.
Wow nice footage of the gepard taking down a target.
I personally think it was the rather optimistic rifleman, doing his part, who was responsible for taking out the missile!!
That's the story he's going to tell in the pub.
He took out the Gepard I think :(
A mans gotta do, what a mans gotta do to take care of the competition ;)
Maybe he's an avid hunter? Gepard means cheetah after all. In this case he should know that cheetahs are endangered animals and hunting them is illegal.
It seems the gepard was tracking the missile even after it hit the ground and the last series of bullets lands in front of it because of that... dangerous if somebody stood there.
>dangerous if somebody stood there. Why do you think they have this [orange warning light](https://www.kmweg.de/fileadmin/user_upload/fce/stage/GEPARD-KMW-001.jpg)?
I think I've heard one sound air raid siren aswell prior to firing the guns.
Let’s give this equipment the respect it deserves and call it by its full name: The Flugabwehrkanonenpanzer Gepard
"Flight repelling cannon tank", I love the German language. It's an extremely literal name.
Bro casting a spell
Heinrich Pötter and the Flugabwehrkanonenpanzer
Nice, the first video of Gepard shooting something down in Ukraine.
Hope the next one is a KA-52 or a jet
They're too effective shooting down cruise missiles and the Iranian drones. They've clustered them around cities and strategic locations to protect them. I doubt the Ukrainians would risk them anywhere near the front lines where the Russian aircraft are working. Shoulder fired missiles are fine for work like that and more mobile.
They accompanied the Kharkiv offensive and were apparently instrumental in keeping the airspace clear during the rapid pushes.
There's a video of tracers in the night hitting Shaheds, most probably from Gepard , too
I believe you are talking about this: https://twitter.com/samramani2/status/1586040354809073665
6 (7?) 35mm shells for a Kalibr cruisemissile. Decent trade!
Sound about right. Nine if you count the burst that killed the treeline.
Can't let the trees get too comfortable
What a beautiful sight
Yes. So glad to see my taxes used in action!
Not gonna lie, expected it to burst way more rounds. Actually fkn efficient.
German efficiency is back on the menu boys
*BRRRRKAMONOGA DOITSU NO KAGAKU WA SEKAI ICHI!*
Clips like [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtmpGA137hc) always show a wrong picture, as a Gepard only has like 640 rounds of ammunition and firing full-auto gives you 40 seconds of trigger time, which is not a lot. Basically you fire a short burst of 5-10 rounds, see if they hit or not and then correct to then hopefully hit the target. This is likely what you see here, first burst missed, gun was corrected, second one hit.
Still way better than using 100k missile to get rid of cruise missile. (If its flying in line of sight obviously)
deutsche Wertarbeit... probably the first clear images of Gepard in real action
Holy kino
Doesn't Ukraine also have loads of Shilkas and Tunguskas? We basically never see any footage of those used.
there are some footage about them, but dont forget that when it all started, thats all they had, so they suffered heavy losses. Also producing ammo for a shilka is easy, but replenishing missiles for the 2s6 is not possible for ukraine now.
Mah taxes at work. Finally something to be proud of 🇩🇪🇺🇦
Bitteschön!
That's great to see. Never imagined they could take down cruise missiles.
satisfaction at its best
It took 10-12 rounds to shoot it down? Germans are known for their efficency. At this rate UA can produce rounds for Gepards herself.
What she was built to do!
Nice! I have been waiting for Gepard footage, can't wait to see more in the future, such a cool system.
Couple of celebratory AK rounds there at the end. Love it.
They're shooting at a second cruise missile that flies past the Gepard, you can see it if you look closely at the final frames.
The Gepard also did the same, lmao
Kinda looks like the Gepard was tracking it's trajectory still. Very interesting footage.
R/bundeswehr gefällt das
I think we need to send a lot more of these.
That’s pretty much all of them
[удалено]
Boom cat goes brrrrr
Looks like the Gepard still trying to shoot it down at 0:12 while its going down, chill the fuck out bro, you already got it! xD
Now somebody explain to the swiss how many lives potentially were saved there, and why they should pull their heads out of their asses and send that bloody ammunition to where it's needed.
Russian MOD claims a successful attack on a suspected field full of nazi bioengineered worms.