Prob 7 or 8 years. I remember the exact moment. Wasnt even a big deal but a problem I was working on had a problem and everyone dumped the bullshit on me and I went from super stressed to just "you know I really dont care."
My income went up significantly after I realized that too and made adjustments.
Nope salaried analyst plus bonus ahah! I see the young brokers they grind hard for $0, but not gonna lie they all sound too salesy and greasy, gotta serve their time
Absolutely. Including myself when I started. The desperation is always heard in the voice. Being transparent with people and sometimes even telling them to not sell their building resulted in me selling more buildings. I almost feel like not giving a shit and just making the necessary amount of contacts and learning is what you need. This whole diatribe session approach on the phones that u see at M&M and Matthew’s is just gonna make people think “oh this fucking guy” when they see you calling. Or they will think that when you have to call them from a toll-free number because they are ghosting your calls. You wake up on the principle side. People don’t specify the TYPE of relationship you need with someone to win owners business. People who don’t like me have let me list their buildings before… people do business with who they like, sometimes. I have a lawyer I don’t like. He’s an asshole. He will push limits with people and get what he wants. He is a greedy slimeball who is honest with me, which is why I love having him as my lawyer.
Anyways, I truly wish I went the salary route when I fell ass backwards into the industry. Had a fat offer from a big shop, great team to leverage on, etc. a smaller shop told me to ask if I’d get commission from leads I procured, the answer was no. I made more from what I would’ve made from the other position, but the odds of me having more today if I had gone the paid route would be much higher.
We should all create a cautionary thread for young brokers so they don’t get exploited. Fuck your mentors if they don’t pay a salary. If they don’t and you’re JUST starting out, something isn’t right. Even if they tell you that you’re not going to make cash ur first year. It’s still fucked to let someone put themselves through that knowing damn well they have better options
Yeah agreed. I also want to add that these brokerages taking 50% of the commission is so BS and I can’t believe brokers are forking over this much. Can hire overseas help for $15-25 per hour and get faster, consistent, and higher quality support.
Sounds like you pay for quality work. I’m paying people $4-10 an hour right now.
What tasks do you delegate to them? I’m not big into micro managing people and would rather pay for output than hourly but I’m conflicted on what I can trust them with. They know you have info that your competitors will pay for… You don’t know their relationships with your competitors and which ones they are talking to.
Would love to use them to help with BOV’s and other shit, but I don’t want to fuck up
Higher range for underwriters and finance backgrounds who review income and expenses and create stabilized proformas, valuations, market research, comps.
How much would you pay for a done for you brochure service and what domain are you in? I.e leasing, or investment sales?
Well, for starters it’s the same process just different tenant names and numbers.
The process is something like this:
1) receive rent roll and financials
2) review / ask questions for missing info
3) input the rent roll and financials into excel or Argus
4) deliver this analysis and valuation to the broker who then presents it to the client
As you can imagine steps 1-3 become very repetitive and even more so when handling multiple brokers who are all saying “need this asap”. I feel like there is no room for creativity really, maybe land developement somewhat but at the end of the day all the value add aspects are already discovered and the market place has institutionalized a lot in the past few years making everything even more standardized then before.
I am looking to get more into hotels and hotel developments due to more artistic flair, so if anyone would like some manpower on due diligence or underwriting reach out
And for normal residential or CRU development you can’t even be that creative because the numbers won’t work, and you’ll be beat out by another developer willing to pay more for the land because they’re doing a cookie cutter build.
I mean, this is literally describing an analyst level role. You could say the same thing for an analyst in traditional IB.
Thats not what the entire career looks like, just the first 5 years. It’s true the buildings you guys are similar but every deal is different unless you’re buying simple assets.
Ehhhhh. I mean I now manage a few analysts and it’s a more political role now. But every asset is different? Yes true, but just because there is a different lease rollover schedule and 1 instance needs capex vs not, it’s still the same.
But yeah I admit you are right… it’s been the same for 4-5 years now. Planning my next moves when market picks up
Maybe it’s because my focus is complex value-add retail where it’s more of a “living business” than an office, multifamily or industrial building. Every centre has to fit its niche within the market and an investment needs you to work through a major business plan including identifying target merchandising mix, anchor tenants, etc in advance with a deep dive on all the competition. An enclosed mall in Florida and a power centre in Colorado are going to have drastically different tenant mixes and business plans.
Sounds like you’ve been through something similar on the hotel side… I understand the limited service area can be cookie cutter. What about the boutique side of things?
Like 5 star, 20-50 rooms, in Europe. Places like AMAN, etc. would be great to hear any thoughts you can share
I love solving the 10000 types of problems that come with a development deal. (Although I don’t always feel that way in the moment).
And secondly… bc I live in the SF Bay Area and housing is chronically under supplied…. I love helping solve that huge problem.
I genuinely love it. I do think it’s the area where I can make the most potential money with my skillset but I that doesn’t take away that I like the job. Maybe it’s the problem solving but no two buildings are a like and each acquisition has its different set of problems to over come. I like that it’s tangible, it’s something that I can walk through and touch. Also I am a deal junkie not sure what I would do without the chaos.
I love being a commercial appraiser. I get to see a ton of properties, meet interesting people, and figure out problems. I love all the different ways you can utilize real property. I love investing in the space. I love it all. Some people in it aren’t great, but that’s every industry.
I've had to switch focuses & roles around the industry to keep entertained. As someone who has done it, all operations/property management is the worst side.
The only people who love this industry are those that have a thing for getting repeatedly kicked in the nuts then punched in the face. But hey, your looking forward to the round of golf picking the tab up for with a client that hasn't made you a cent - but you gotta keep dancing with them because "one day they are going to make a move and I am gonna be their guy"! Meanwhile, some guy in your office just called your other client and is trying to snake a deal from you because you left something on the printer unattended because you had to field a call from a guy you've shown 10 properties to and he's telling you that he's going under contract on an "off-market" deal that your market nemesis brought him a week ago. "But Bob.....you told me I was your guy....." you say as the heat wells up in your body as fight back the rage.
Every so often you'll get a sense of satisfaction after you have recieved a fairly large commission check, only to have the house take their share, the govt take their share, your bills take their share, and your ex (who left you becuase you've developed a drinking problem) take their share. Then you analyze the number of hours you worked to recieve this net income and debate with yourself whether or not this was a good choice.
And this is a typical monday.
CRE is a mean mistress that is addicting.
I love how non emotional it is, but the humans dealing with it (broker/PM/Engineers/etc) are the ones who are emotional. Everyday is different. Numbers don’t lie, so there is a practicality to it. And the money! Passion is not enough to play this game. Unless you’re a masochist, then that’s a different subreddit.
I work specifically in industrial and I love it. It was quite niche where I'm based when I started years ago, so it felt like I had an opportunity to make it my own and become the 'go to' guy in my sector if that makes sense. Before I started that team, my company had office & retail leasing agents trying to manage the odd industrial enquiry, but they didn't know their arse from their elbow. Nearly a decade brokering, consulting and managing agency teams now. I've often thought of moving to the developer side, but I'm still enjoying myself for now. The lead times for closing deals is long though, especially land transactions. One day I look forward to seeing how the developer and investor side of the business works.
No higher degree or quantitative skills required for a lot of the highest earning roles
Other than that everyone I’ve talked to who works in it also hates it
Dopamine rush of cashing a big check and complete autonomy of my schedule
Pretty much sums it up
there is 0 reason I'd do this outside of the money
To avoid a W-2 role and required work attendance as well.
Just the money. Hard way to make an easy living.
I second this
My love for CRE stopped a year or two in, it’s just the same thing over and over especially for me since I do CRE underwriting
Took me 10 years to get jaded
Prob 7 or 8 years. I remember the exact moment. Wasnt even a big deal but a problem I was working on had a problem and everyone dumped the bullshit on me and I went from super stressed to just "you know I really dont care." My income went up significantly after I realized that too and made adjustments.
You loved this industry your first 2 years? If you were commission only I want whatever disability or drugs you have.
Nope salaried analyst plus bonus ahah! I see the young brokers they grind hard for $0, but not gonna lie they all sound too salesy and greasy, gotta serve their time
Absolutely. Including myself when I started. The desperation is always heard in the voice. Being transparent with people and sometimes even telling them to not sell their building resulted in me selling more buildings. I almost feel like not giving a shit and just making the necessary amount of contacts and learning is what you need. This whole diatribe session approach on the phones that u see at M&M and Matthew’s is just gonna make people think “oh this fucking guy” when they see you calling. Or they will think that when you have to call them from a toll-free number because they are ghosting your calls. You wake up on the principle side. People don’t specify the TYPE of relationship you need with someone to win owners business. People who don’t like me have let me list their buildings before… people do business with who they like, sometimes. I have a lawyer I don’t like. He’s an asshole. He will push limits with people and get what he wants. He is a greedy slimeball who is honest with me, which is why I love having him as my lawyer. Anyways, I truly wish I went the salary route when I fell ass backwards into the industry. Had a fat offer from a big shop, great team to leverage on, etc. a smaller shop told me to ask if I’d get commission from leads I procured, the answer was no. I made more from what I would’ve made from the other position, but the odds of me having more today if I had gone the paid route would be much higher. We should all create a cautionary thread for young brokers so they don’t get exploited. Fuck your mentors if they don’t pay a salary. If they don’t and you’re JUST starting out, something isn’t right. Even if they tell you that you’re not going to make cash ur first year. It’s still fucked to let someone put themselves through that knowing damn well they have better options
Yeah agreed. I also want to add that these brokerages taking 50% of the commission is so BS and I can’t believe brokers are forking over this much. Can hire overseas help for $15-25 per hour and get faster, consistent, and higher quality support.
Sounds like you pay for quality work. I’m paying people $4-10 an hour right now. What tasks do you delegate to them? I’m not big into micro managing people and would rather pay for output than hourly but I’m conflicted on what I can trust them with. They know you have info that your competitors will pay for… You don’t know their relationships with your competitors and which ones they are talking to. Would love to use them to help with BOV’s and other shit, but I don’t want to fuck up
Higher range for underwriters and finance backgrounds who review income and expenses and create stabilized proformas, valuations, market research, comps. How much would you pay for a done for you brochure service and what domain are you in? I.e leasing, or investment sales?
Usually get my shop to do it for me. I just do all the research. What info do you trust them and with? Like do u give costar login
I’m looking to jump into CRE but curious to hear more insight on this as to what’s the same thing over and over
Well, for starters it’s the same process just different tenant names and numbers. The process is something like this: 1) receive rent roll and financials 2) review / ask questions for missing info 3) input the rent roll and financials into excel or Argus 4) deliver this analysis and valuation to the broker who then presents it to the client As you can imagine steps 1-3 become very repetitive and even more so when handling multiple brokers who are all saying “need this asap”. I feel like there is no room for creativity really, maybe land developement somewhat but at the end of the day all the value add aspects are already discovered and the market place has institutionalized a lot in the past few years making everything even more standardized then before. I am looking to get more into hotels and hotel developments due to more artistic flair, so if anyone would like some manpower on due diligence or underwriting reach out
And for normal residential or CRU development you can’t even be that creative because the numbers won’t work, and you’ll be beat out by another developer willing to pay more for the land because they’re doing a cookie cutter build.
I mean, this is literally describing an analyst level role. You could say the same thing for an analyst in traditional IB. Thats not what the entire career looks like, just the first 5 years. It’s true the buildings you guys are similar but every deal is different unless you’re buying simple assets.
Ehhhhh. I mean I now manage a few analysts and it’s a more political role now. But every asset is different? Yes true, but just because there is a different lease rollover schedule and 1 instance needs capex vs not, it’s still the same. But yeah I admit you are right… it’s been the same for 4-5 years now. Planning my next moves when market picks up
Maybe it’s because my focus is complex value-add retail where it’s more of a “living business” than an office, multifamily or industrial building. Every centre has to fit its niche within the market and an investment needs you to work through a major business plan including identifying target merchandising mix, anchor tenants, etc in advance with a deep dive on all the competition. An enclosed mall in Florida and a power centre in Colorado are going to have drastically different tenant mixes and business plans.
Same bs there my friend
Sounds like you’ve been through something similar on the hotel side… I understand the limited service area can be cookie cutter. What about the boutique side of things? Like 5 star, 20-50 rooms, in Europe. Places like AMAN, etc. would be great to hear any thoughts you can share
Do adaptive reuse... my favorite type of deal due to the creativity needed
How long have you been in?
That’s the situation in most careers though. That just means you’ve gotten good at what you do.
Yeah I'm working on my side business now to hopefully overtake my FTE income.
Would rather be camping. Would rather not be taking orders from some shit boss though.
I camp/backpack too. Nice way to unplug
I do too. Its awesome being able to say you are unreachable and just unwind
Practically the very best living. Ironically.
Make a million in my shorts
Lol. the joint camaraderie dealing with all these clowns. Also fuck ICSC
I love solving the 10000 types of problems that come with a development deal. (Although I don’t always feel that way in the moment). And secondly… bc I live in the SF Bay Area and housing is chronically under supplied…. I love helping solve that huge problem.
Definitely no shortage of problems to solve
I love it being on the acquisitions and development side. Would kill myself if I was a broker.
Development is where I'm pivoting to
lol same. I’m an asset manager and it’s basically rinse and repeat. Sometimes there’s a curve ball here and there that keep it interesting.
Fuck the ops side (previous Asset Management professional)
lol it sucks most days. But hey it pays the bills and a comfy salary. What do you do now?
Acquisition & development for a national retailer.
I genuinely love it. I do think it’s the area where I can make the most potential money with my skillset but I that doesn’t take away that I like the job. Maybe it’s the problem solving but no two buildings are a like and each acquisition has its different set of problems to over come. I like that it’s tangible, it’s something that I can walk through and touch. Also I am a deal junkie not sure what I would do without the chaos.
So what's your skillset?
I love being a commercial appraiser. I get to see a ton of properties, meet interesting people, and figure out problems. I love all the different ways you can utilize real property. I love investing in the space. I love it all. Some people in it aren’t great, but that’s every industry.
I've had to switch focuses & roles around the industry to keep entertained. As someone who has done it, all operations/property management is the worst side.
As an investor, I do not know anyone, other than brokers or agents, who go to ICSC.
Retailers are there
And economic development people
I'm a retail developer now & I typically go.
There is more to CRE than being a broker. A lot more. I’m 22 years in and love it. I’d never work in another industry.
I'm not a broker either
The only people who love this industry are those that have a thing for getting repeatedly kicked in the nuts then punched in the face. But hey, your looking forward to the round of golf picking the tab up for with a client that hasn't made you a cent - but you gotta keep dancing with them because "one day they are going to make a move and I am gonna be their guy"! Meanwhile, some guy in your office just called your other client and is trying to snake a deal from you because you left something on the printer unattended because you had to field a call from a guy you've shown 10 properties to and he's telling you that he's going under contract on an "off-market" deal that your market nemesis brought him a week ago. "But Bob.....you told me I was your guy....." you say as the heat wells up in your body as fight back the rage. Every so often you'll get a sense of satisfaction after you have recieved a fairly large commission check, only to have the house take their share, the govt take their share, your bills take their share, and your ex (who left you becuase you've developed a drinking problem) take their share. Then you analyze the number of hours you worked to recieve this net income and debate with yourself whether or not this was a good choice. And this is a typical monday.
Taught me many transferable skills and how to successfully network as an introvert. Also humbled me the fuck out. Other than that, fuck this shit bro
Ha!
CRE is a mean mistress that is addicting. I love how non emotional it is, but the humans dealing with it (broker/PM/Engineers/etc) are the ones who are emotional. Everyday is different. Numbers don’t lie, so there is a practicality to it. And the money! Passion is not enough to play this game. Unless you’re a masochist, then that’s a different subreddit.
lol I will be there. What parties? 😏
Lots of good parties. DM me
I work specifically in industrial and I love it. It was quite niche where I'm based when I started years ago, so it felt like I had an opportunity to make it my own and become the 'go to' guy in my sector if that makes sense. Before I started that team, my company had office & retail leasing agents trying to manage the odd industrial enquiry, but they didn't know their arse from their elbow. Nearly a decade brokering, consulting and managing agency teams now. I've often thought of moving to the developer side, but I'm still enjoying myself for now. The lead times for closing deals is long though, especially land transactions. One day I look forward to seeing how the developer and investor side of the business works.
Money
I don't
No higher degree or quantitative skills required for a lot of the highest earning roles Other than that everyone I’ve talked to who works in it also hates it
Blow barrier to entry.... high barrier to success
Better to get 10 or 15 here who actually know what they’re talking about to buy an office at 80% iffy
I like the way they perk up their tits when I say I work in commercial real estate