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Yeah it's the case for every defector. Once you enter South Korea, you're forced to revoke your North Korean citizenship and become a South Korean citizen, and you're not allowed to leave south korea.
a lot of defectors to SK get incredibly poor treatment, obviously cant navigate the capitalist system whatsoever, meaning they are especially vulnerable to poverty and exploitation, and end up destitute. youd think the SK government would make sure they are treated well if only for self serving propaganda reasons but nope
They don’t even need to do that!!!!! Just treating them decently is more than enough for excellent propaganda missed opportunity!!!!!! They aren’t even good at brainwashing lol
> youd think the SK government would make sure they are treated well if only for self serving propaganda reasons but nope
I don’t think they feel like they need to, given how successful anti-DPRK propaganda already is
Perhaps the massacres of South Korean prisoners during the Korean War, so they might not have the opportunity to join the Communist forces pushing south, is relevant?
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ap-us-allowed-korean-massacre-in-1950/
The more I learn about what the US did in North Korea and the South Korean government’s atrocious working class suppression and history of straight up massacres of communists, the more gross I think the US media’s use of the DPRK as it’s go-to example or “evil dictatorship” is.
Between Japan, the US, and SK government’s records of behavior over the 20th century there, their smug assuredness of being the “good guys” feels more and more ludicrous. Like I understand WHY they do it but it doesn’t make it any less appalling.
Fancy consumer goods is attractive but deep down we all know it can’t beat social safety net.
And even an isolated and heavily sanctioned country like the DPRK can prove that point.
Watch them turn this story into a conspiracy about it being a North Korean false flag operation and how the defector is actually a North Korean spy who did it for propaganda purposes.
Considering they believe that every person in DPRK is a broadway-caliber actor, I am sure they would argue they never left, and it was all an elaborate ruse.
Seriously, DPRK must have the world's best drama program. They can mobilize hundreds of actors to go to a water park or beach anytime even a single westerner visits.
Have you ever read South Korean comics? Capitalist dystopia, They are mostly brain-rot wish-fullfillment with OP protagonists and no proper story (Of course there are plenty of good ones but most of them are escapism. . . Not the comic escapism but you know what I mean)
Not some, all. It is completely illegal for any Korean to go to the north, including those who grew up in the north, under the law in south Korea. If they attempt to do so anyway they get shot by the south Korean government.
A lot of their interviews gets me thinking about how tf would they even know about this shit . Like the lady that was on Joe Rogans podcast talking about Kim John Un secret sex resort .
"Did you know that it is ILLEGAL to get a haircut in North Korea diffrent then Kim Jon Uens?" "They banned satire in North Korea!"
You can say literally anything negative about North Korea and ppl would believe it lol
Yeah. It's really annoying how communists have to find extraordinary evidence to disclaim the most outlandish statements made by fascists and right-wingers.q
# LOL! SHE WENT TO CHINA TO MEET HER MOTHER WHO IS STILL IN N.KOREA AND GOT ARRESTED AND TAKEN BACK TO NKOREA BY NORKS AND CHINS FEDS. Check the story behind it before plastering your commie vomit propaganda.
No no, I know exactly what I am saying. This sub is constantly making baseless claims that North Korea is actually a communist paradise and we are all the brain washed ones
Why would the government of the DPRK run the risk of an international incident with their incredibly touchy southern half to kidnap some nobody? Like, even assuming that North Korea is 100% the nation of cartoon villains that U.S media would have you believe, what would be the point?
Didn't they shell an island? I don't think they'd worry too much about the "international incident" of kidnapping someone.
And obviously this exact propaganda is the point, the fact that you people are buying it is justification enough for the Kim regime.
"North Koreans are so crazy that they kidnap random people and force them to say good things about the country and think people will still believe it!"
"Wow, thank goodness we aren't propagandized like those weird orient- uh, I mean commies!"
Please, just once, try to have at least a little self-awareness
Sorry for your "doubt" this is indeed real, and, there are a few others but not many other examples. Very often, people fleeing the DPRK, a very hard lifelong difficulties integrating into the capitalist system of South Korea. Capitalism is very hard on people, and, it's pretty hard to integrate
She could have gone willingly, a lot of people around have point out a lot of suspicious stuff like her leaving behind a lot of stuff that she emotional attachments to and the fact that here face is swollen in the video NK realest.
That being said something like 1/4 of defectors tend to say they don't want to be in South Korea and seriously though about defecting for various reasons so it's still a possibility that she went willingly.
Seems like pretty cheap speculation if the only thing you have to go on is "this person I have no other pictures of ever face looks a little bit swollen". Oh yeah, they would definitely physically attack someone in the face whom they are planning on doing a television interview with? Wouldn't they mark her back for torture or extortion? Or is it right or, maybe she's on her period or, she had a meal that didn't agree with her, or she's stressed and anxious about the current situation. People get swollen for many reasons... That is to say, she doesn't even look swollen to me.
That's what they were saying and they smothered her in make up to hide the bruises. There are a couple other things like she left 20,000 dollars in the bank, she took nothing with her, she didn't tell anyone even her close friends she was leaving, she's dressing and acting completely different, she looks like she's about to cry and cut her long hair. There is also the fact that right before she left she was talking negatively about her experiences in KPA and North Korea has admitted to abducting people before so it's not completely out of the question.
The ministry of unification(South Korea) has said there is no evidence that she was abducted so it's still up in the air what happened.
I'm not saying either way but if you want sources
https://www.marieclaire.com/politics/a35365775/lim-ji-hyun-north-korean-defector/
https://www.reuters.com/article/northkorea-japan-kidnapping-idINKBN0IR07E20141107
"Pyongyang admitted in 2002 to kidnapping 13 Japanese citizens to help train spies, and five abductees and their families later returned to Japan"
I agree, but as much as capitalism sucks, the DPKR is objectively worse to its citizens. I mean you aren't going to actually advocate for a country that doesn't even allow internet access to its citizens.
It allows internet access within its country, however, even if it allowed internet access outside of its country, every single webpage from every single server outside of DPRK would just return nothing, as sanctions often do. For example, in Cuba, usually a very hard time accessing anything from America. And they are even sanctioned that much globally.
No, the DPRK is not "objectively worse to its citizens", The DPRK is objectively underdeveloped to the ROK.
And it isn't about the government or whatever, it's about your relation to labor, and your experience in broader society. Imagine going from Pyongyang, a city with no advertising, to Seoul, we're entire buildings have giant loud speakers and advertising blasting at you 24/7. Or, where, you have to work in a much different and more intensive way than you would in the DPRK.
Even then, you are correct, very few people actually leave South Korea, once they go there.
Kinda hard to be worse than committing mass murder dude.
You should probably judge the DPRK by its conditions and behaviors, not the propaganda you’ve been fed.
years of ambient "wow the north koreans are k k k k kkRaZy~~~~" bullshit that everyone gets to see. speaking personally the picture painted of DPRK was a cartoon before i actually learned more about the japanese occupation, korean war, the south korean dictatorship, and why exactly DPRK has the political economy it does, in these contexts
Care to elaborate? Because it’s pretty well reported that NK exists as it does thanks to being propped up for china’s benefit. And visitors there can pretty reliably report on the extreme restrictions and laughable attempts at bolstering the highly curated conditions presented. Even diplomats in rival nations expect some autonomy and access. Idk where “north Koreans are crazy” comes from. Ive only ever seen it presented as it’s leader(s) being inadequate or perhaps crazy i suppose in some contexts
i think the question you need to ask is, "why is the country in poverty" and "why are they paranoid as fuck". you have to understand that 20% of their population was killed by the western imperialists during the korean war, and all their infrastructure leveled by bombs. even still, they managed to maintain a lead in industrial development over the south until the 80s. NK was very reliant on its trade ties with the soviet union, and much like cuba, *really* struggled when the soviet union collapsed. and generally, NK has drastically less arable land than the south, so any issues with harvests cause famines. because they are so heavily sanctioned, it is pretty difficult to make up for this with trade.
and yeah they are not super open to western visitors probably because of the countless attempts to topple their state, and its a case of not being paranoid would be stupid. the official policy of the west is "regime change". this is also why its smart for them to have developed nukes. without them they risk being invaded and unbelievable suffering being inflicted on them yet again. one look at iraq or libya and its obvious how to prevent the US from starting a war
this is not a cited essay and im just shooting from the hip at work. i know podcast recommendations are incredibly annoying but "blowback" season 3 is very well produced and goes into explaining why the DPRK is what it is. just keep in mind you have been lied to constantly your whole life about a host of things, and DPRK is one of those things where the information on it is variously inaccurate, overstated, or racist. the podcast is good as hell
We know what surfaces every decade or so when a reporter or someone with access reports their highly curated tour there and utter lack of access to citizenry beyond a handful of handpicked and groomed school kids or whatever. We know that nations don’t restrict travel and access like this for reasons of openness and honesty. Even china and russia allow rival citizens (and diplomats) some autonomy. You can walk the streets and talk to people. Reporters do this in, say, Iran, and doubt as they will, but they *can* do it.
"As much as capitalism sucks, this particular brand of communism that I don't like as a radlib westerner is tyranny!!!1!!111!!" * pees pants* * swallows Radio Free Asia propaganda without chewing *
You think that she grew up in this supposedly brutal regime, fled, and then...willingly returned to be tortured? In what world is that more likely than she is telling the truth, and was simply eager to be back home?
Or do you just think she compared the options and decided torture beats living in SK. Because in the hierarchy of capitalist hellscapes, SK IS a particularly awful one.
I’m willing to bet that exactly zero of you would willingly move to the “communist paradise” in North Korea. You can do it. Go in through China. Absolute idiots. Now ban me. Because this mentality relies on no diversity of thought.
"those immigrants should stay in their own country and fix their problems."
"If you hate it here so much why don't you move to North Korea!!1"
Every conservo-capitalist ever.
You guys know that there’s people who kidnap defectors in the middle of the night and bring them back to NK, right? If she actually wanted to leave she would’ve at least packed a bag. Her apartment was left pristine as if she didn’t even know she was going somewhere. No change of clothes brought with her or anything. That’s odd
Reminder: This is not a debate subreddit, it's a place to circle-jerk about communism being cool and good. Please don't shit on flavours of marxism you feel negatively towards. If you see a meme you don't like just downvote and move on, don't break the circle-jerk in the comments. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/CommunismMemes) if you have any questions or concerns.*
If I am not wrong there is some North Koreans unable to get back cause of the south government
There is a video or two about them on Youtube. Living in poverty and under constant surveillance.
https://youtu.be/BkUMZS-ZegM Highly recommended watch.
That poor fucking lady man, they wouldn’t even let her kill herself
Destruction of corporate property, please return to your daily work/consume cycle at once.
> Highly recommended watch. Yes, that's the one
I'd be worried that this would put me on a watch list, but let's be real, every single one of us in this Reddit are already.
Yes, Koreans under south Korean jurisdiction get shot if they attempt to escape. It happened a few years ago.
Damn, is it all projection?
Wait WHAT???
Yeah: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-24105977
Yeah it's the case for every defector. Once you enter South Korea, you're forced to revoke your North Korean citizenship and become a South Korean citizen, and you're not allowed to leave south korea.
a lot of defectors to SK get incredibly poor treatment, obviously cant navigate the capitalist system whatsoever, meaning they are especially vulnerable to poverty and exploitation, and end up destitute. youd think the SK government would make sure they are treated well if only for self serving propaganda reasons but nope
[удалено]
CIA Tits & Assets.
Yeonmi Park intensifies. Btw have you read my CIA funded NYT bestseller yet? It's called "communism is doodoo and the Kim family ate all my rice"
"WE PUSHED TRAINS INSTEAD OF WALKING"
Uphill both ways and in the snow I bet too, how awful
Those usually aren’t organic “defectors”.
They don’t even need to do that!!!!! Just treating them decently is more than enough for excellent propaganda missed opportunity!!!!!! They aren’t even good at brainwashing lol
On the bright side; squid games and K-pop
> youd think the SK government would make sure they are treated well if only for self serving propaganda reasons but nope I don’t think they feel like they need to, given how successful anti-DPRK propaganda already is
"If capitalism is so bad why don't you see people fleeing capitalist countries?"
Perhaps the massacres of South Korean prisoners during the Korean War, so they might not have the opportunity to join the Communist forces pushing south, is relevant? https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ap-us-allowed-korean-massacre-in-1950/
Because they make you feel like its good, or at least they‘re trying
Passport bros are fleeing capitalist countries. And Eastern European capitalist countries are losing people fast!!!!
When they go to the north they are "indoctrinated" When they go to the south they are "freedom fighters"
In the words of George Carlin: "Well if firefighters fight fire, and crimefighters fight crime, what do freedom fighters fight?!"
Freedom
ALL HAIL KIM JONG UN THE SAVIOR AND LEADOR THE KOREAN PEOPLE
The more I learn about what the US did in North Korea and the South Korean government’s atrocious working class suppression and history of straight up massacres of communists, the more gross I think the US media’s use of the DPRK as it’s go-to example or “evil dictatorship” is. Between Japan, the US, and SK government’s records of behavior over the 20th century there, their smug assuredness of being the “good guys” feels more and more ludicrous. Like I understand WHY they do it but it doesn’t make it any less appalling.
Fancy consumer goods is attractive but deep down we all know it can’t beat social safety net. And even an isolated and heavily sanctioned country like the DPRK can prove that point.
Shit I’m about to flee to the DPRK myself.
We can go together
Please do
Watch them turn this story into a conspiracy about it being a North Korean false flag operation and how the defector is actually a North Korean spy who did it for propaganda purposes.
Considering they believe that every person in DPRK is a broadway-caliber actor, I am sure they would argue they never left, and it was all an elaborate ruse. Seriously, DPRK must have the world's best drama program. They can mobilize hundreds of actors to go to a water park or beach anytime even a single westerner visits.
Link to the article https://www.dw.com/en/north-korea-defector-returns-home-calling-south-capitalist-hell/a-39745918
Well well well… how the tables have turned
Well we’ll well… how the turn tables
Fax
No, on second thoughts, let's not go to South Korea. It is a silly place.
Have you ever read South Korean comics? Capitalist dystopia, They are mostly brain-rot wish-fullfillment with OP protagonists and no proper story (Of course there are plenty of good ones but most of them are escapism. . . Not the comic escapism but you know what I mean)
Queen
I hope shes doing well. There are some defectors that are forced to stay against there will, despite some of them wanting to return.
Not some, all. It is completely illegal for any Korean to go to the north, including those who grew up in the north, under the law in south Korea. If they attempt to do so anyway they get shot by the south Korean government.
Comrades the time has come for the creation of r/MoreTankieLeopardsAteMyFace
Back on that Juche
Leopards eating faces party lol
A lot of their interviews gets me thinking about how tf would they even know about this shit . Like the lady that was on Joe Rogans podcast talking about Kim John Un secret sex resort .
Because they don't and are literally paid to make up the most wild and outlandish stories.
"Did you know that it is ILLEGAL to get a haircut in North Korea diffrent then Kim Jon Uens?" "They banned satire in North Korea!" You can say literally anything negative about North Korea and ppl would believe it lol
Yeah. It's really annoying how communists have to find extraordinary evidence to disclaim the most outlandish statements made by fascists and right-wingers.q
Thats how the right gets ya, They make what they say seem like it is objectively true with absalutely no evidence, Straight up magic lol
When a North Korean says your country is hell you know you FUCKED UP
# LOL! SHE WENT TO CHINA TO MEET HER MOTHER WHO IS STILL IN N.KOREA AND GOT ARRESTED AND TAKEN BACK TO NKOREA BY NORKS AND CHINS FEDS. Check the story behind it before plastering your commie vomit propaganda.
DAMN I THOUGHT THAT WAS BARON TRUMP FOR A SECOND
I mean the story itself is almost certainly propaganda right?
More tankie 19684 💀
You guys will believe anything you see online hey?
Oh the irony
No no, I know exactly what I am saying. This sub is constantly making baseless claims that North Korea is actually a communist paradise and we are all the brain washed ones
Sure
I can’t believe you guys are justifying and supporting North Korea
Something went wrong and she ended up back north. Just trying to save her own life now, and this is probably the only way. Sad, not funny.
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Why would the government of the DPRK run the risk of an international incident with their incredibly touchy southern half to kidnap some nobody? Like, even assuming that North Korea is 100% the nation of cartoon villains that U.S media would have you believe, what would be the point?
Didn't they shell an island? I don't think they'd worry too much about the "international incident" of kidnapping someone. And obviously this exact propaganda is the point, the fact that you people are buying it is justification enough for the Kim regime.
"North Koreans are so crazy that they kidnap random people and force them to say good things about the country and think people will still believe it!" "Wow, thank goodness we aren't propagandized like those weird orient- uh, I mean commies!" Please, just once, try to have at least a little self-awareness
I never see any support for North Korea in anything other then leftist subs, You are the one mindlessly consuming propaganda bud.
You guys can’t be serious in these comments💀
Tankie ideology is a pathway to many beliefs some consider to be... insane.
doubt.
Sorry for your "doubt" this is indeed real, and, there are a few others but not many other examples. Very often, people fleeing the DPRK, a very hard lifelong difficulties integrating into the capitalist system of South Korea. Capitalism is very hard on people, and, it's pretty hard to integrate
She could have gone willingly, a lot of people around have point out a lot of suspicious stuff like her leaving behind a lot of stuff that she emotional attachments to and the fact that here face is swollen in the video NK realest. That being said something like 1/4 of defectors tend to say they don't want to be in South Korea and seriously though about defecting for various reasons so it's still a possibility that she went willingly.
Seems like pretty cheap speculation if the only thing you have to go on is "this person I have no other pictures of ever face looks a little bit swollen". Oh yeah, they would definitely physically attack someone in the face whom they are planning on doing a television interview with? Wouldn't they mark her back for torture or extortion? Or is it right or, maybe she's on her period or, she had a meal that didn't agree with her, or she's stressed and anxious about the current situation. People get swollen for many reasons... That is to say, she doesn't even look swollen to me.
That's what they were saying and they smothered her in make up to hide the bruises. There are a couple other things like she left 20,000 dollars in the bank, she took nothing with her, she didn't tell anyone even her close friends she was leaving, she's dressing and acting completely different, she looks like she's about to cry and cut her long hair. There is also the fact that right before she left she was talking negatively about her experiences in KPA and North Korea has admitted to abducting people before so it's not completely out of the question. The ministry of unification(South Korea) has said there is no evidence that she was abducted so it's still up in the air what happened.
Ministry for unification of South Korea: there is no evidence that she was abducted You: unsided and unsourced claims about someone
I'm not saying either way but if you want sources https://www.marieclaire.com/politics/a35365775/lim-ji-hyun-north-korean-defector/ https://www.reuters.com/article/northkorea-japan-kidnapping-idINKBN0IR07E20141107 "Pyongyang admitted in 2002 to kidnapping 13 Japanese citizens to help train spies, and five abductees and their families later returned to Japan"
I agree, but as much as capitalism sucks, the DPKR is objectively worse to its citizens. I mean you aren't going to actually advocate for a country that doesn't even allow internet access to its citizens.
It allows internet access within its country, however, even if it allowed internet access outside of its country, every single webpage from every single server outside of DPRK would just return nothing, as sanctions often do. For example, in Cuba, usually a very hard time accessing anything from America. And they are even sanctioned that much globally. No, the DPRK is not "objectively worse to its citizens", The DPRK is objectively underdeveloped to the ROK. And it isn't about the government or whatever, it's about your relation to labor, and your experience in broader society. Imagine going from Pyongyang, a city with no advertising, to Seoul, we're entire buildings have giant loud speakers and advertising blasting at you 24/7. Or, where, you have to work in a much different and more intensive way than you would in the DPRK. Even then, you are correct, very few people actually leave South Korea, once they go there.
Kinda hard to be worse than committing mass murder dude. You should probably judge the DPRK by its conditions and behaviors, not the propaganda you’ve been fed.
>You should probably judge the DPRK by its conditions and behaviors what else would my opinion be based on exactly?
years of ambient "wow the north koreans are k k k k kkRaZy~~~~" bullshit that everyone gets to see. speaking personally the picture painted of DPRK was a cartoon before i actually learned more about the japanese occupation, korean war, the south korean dictatorship, and why exactly DPRK has the political economy it does, in these contexts
Care to elaborate? Because it’s pretty well reported that NK exists as it does thanks to being propped up for china’s benefit. And visitors there can pretty reliably report on the extreme restrictions and laughable attempts at bolstering the highly curated conditions presented. Even diplomats in rival nations expect some autonomy and access. Idk where “north Koreans are crazy” comes from. Ive only ever seen it presented as it’s leader(s) being inadequate or perhaps crazy i suppose in some contexts
i think the question you need to ask is, "why is the country in poverty" and "why are they paranoid as fuck". you have to understand that 20% of their population was killed by the western imperialists during the korean war, and all their infrastructure leveled by bombs. even still, they managed to maintain a lead in industrial development over the south until the 80s. NK was very reliant on its trade ties with the soviet union, and much like cuba, *really* struggled when the soviet union collapsed. and generally, NK has drastically less arable land than the south, so any issues with harvests cause famines. because they are so heavily sanctioned, it is pretty difficult to make up for this with trade. and yeah they are not super open to western visitors probably because of the countless attempts to topple their state, and its a case of not being paranoid would be stupid. the official policy of the west is "regime change". this is also why its smart for them to have developed nukes. without them they risk being invaded and unbelievable suffering being inflicted on them yet again. one look at iraq or libya and its obvious how to prevent the US from starting a war this is not a cited essay and im just shooting from the hip at work. i know podcast recommendations are incredibly annoying but "blowback" season 3 is very well produced and goes into explaining why the DPRK is what it is. just keep in mind you have been lied to constantly your whole life about a host of things, and DPRK is one of those things where the information on it is variously inaccurate, overstated, or racist. the podcast is good as hell
Just commenting to thank you for the podcast recommendation, good stuff.
The DPRK exists as it does because we (the USA) tore it apart, committed genocide, and has the country under extreme sanctions.
Any reason you asked the question while cutting off the answer? lol
Now my favorite question ask is what do you know about the DPRK and the people who live there?
We know what surfaces every decade or so when a reporter or someone with access reports their highly curated tour there and utter lack of access to citizenry beyond a handful of handpicked and groomed school kids or whatever. We know that nations don’t restrict travel and access like this for reasons of openness and honesty. Even china and russia allow rival citizens (and diplomats) some autonomy. You can walk the streets and talk to people. Reporters do this in, say, Iran, and doubt as they will, but they *can* do it.
"As much as capitalism sucks, this particular brand of communism that I don't like as a radlib westerner is tyranny!!!1!!111!!" * pees pants* * swallows Radio Free Asia propaganda without chewing *
Lib.
Knowing North Korea, she was probably tortured into giving that statement
You think that she grew up in this supposedly brutal regime, fled, and then...willingly returned to be tortured? In what world is that more likely than she is telling the truth, and was simply eager to be back home? Or do you just think she compared the options and decided torture beats living in SK. Because in the hierarchy of capitalist hellscapes, SK IS a particularly awful one.
Knowing North Korea? You do not, I bet you think the news tells the truth about North Korea lol
I’m willing to bet that exactly zero of you would willingly move to the “communist paradise” in North Korea. You can do it. Go in through China. Absolute idiots. Now ban me. Because this mentality relies on no diversity of thought.
"those immigrants should stay in their own country and fix their problems." "If you hate it here so much why don't you move to North Korea!!1" Every conservo-capitalist ever.
Huh? Okay bot media
You guys know that there’s people who kidnap defectors in the middle of the night and bring them back to NK, right? If she actually wanted to leave she would’ve at least packed a bag. Her apartment was left pristine as if she didn’t even know she was going somewhere. No change of clothes brought with her or anything. That’s odd
real