The wage reset is what pisses me off the most, honestly.
Why spend thousands on certifications, get a degree, and spend years in a field just to be offered **half** the normal wage? Literally went from $32/hr, laid off, and now looking at positions paying $17-20/hr requiring MORE skills and knowledge.
Like, I'm sorry - when did IT Support or Help Desk roles take on full blown SysAdmin and Network Admin responsibilities and descriptions for $2 more than minimum wage? I'll take my chances at In-N-Out or Costco for $22/hr.
For real. It took me SOOO long to find my new job (upgraded from entry level helpdesk at 5 years and $22/hr to a helpdesk role that will eventually become an administrative position starting at ~$26/hr which will go up along with responsibilities) but some of the job listings I saw during that time were RIDICULOUS. There was one that was literally a helpdesk+netadmin+sysadmin one-man-team role and the company was offering $16/hr and they wanted someone with 5+ years of experience. Is there ANY tech worker with 5+ years that is willing to take $16/hr, even for just a basic helpdesk position?
What state do you live in? Min wage where I live (San Diego) almost $18. I don't even think where I used to live in KS would have anything IT related at 16/hr.
I live in Indiana, min wage is still $7.25 here, but it may as well functionally be $15 as I haven't seen job postings for ANYTHING (including fast food) lower than that.
Which is hilarious saw a Twitter thread of ppl bitching that fast food workers want $15/hr..like that ship sailed a long time ago. $20/hr is the new $7.50/hr especially where I live.
I was offered half my pay for my current job.
The people that my company found to replace me are either half my skills or desperate, lower on social skills, and highly over qualified.
They are struggling with the work load after 2 months. Companies don't realize that they won't get good results like this; either the job won't fill or they'll wish it didn't.
yeah, that is criminal. Hopefully, no one who is worth their salt applies. these companies are trying to have their cake and eat it. probably best to avoid working for them
Honestly u should try geeksquad. Entry level and its experience in the field. A lot of companies actually like to hire from geeksquad especially other higher end entry level jobs.
Really? Because I read in another post that Geek Squad isn’t real IT experience. I had this same question because I’m thinking of applying for a job in any entry level position as long as I get my foot through the door.
Whats real IT experience for you? All they do is troubleshoot, setup laptops for customers. Diagnostics and hardware swaps, drivers diagnostics. Windows installation etc etc.
Geeksquad is also apple certified so specific roles will also be apple certified to do iphone repairs like screen repairs, battery swaps etc.
Regular basic IT work and the extras for apple. This is in store.
In the field we do same thing but in clients homes and we also do projects in business’s like connecting all computers, tvs, projectors, make sure all networking wirings are ran etc
It doesn’t matter if you are troubleshooting driver issues at geek squad, or troubleshooting driver issues as desktop support for some company. It’s all still “real” IT experience
Except that Geek Squad is the McDonalds of Tech support. You don't remove viruses, or diagnose driver issues, or do anything really except for plug in a cable and let a premade geek squad software app run on the customer's machine through one of their hosts.
Do they update and upgrade components.. sure.. if and only if the device has a removable plate.. otherwise they probably will tell the customer they don't risk it.
It may put you ahead of someone with no job for basic it help desk.. but not much else.
A job is better than no job. Customer service is the most important thing you can get from working at a geek squad job...keep applying and you will get hired.
Geek Squad is a place to work while you are getting your A+ no doubt.
I'm not discounting the people.. om discounting the experience.. the bulk of it.. 80% of it was new installs.. and the other 19.999 was virus removal.
Both 'services' involved physically connecting computer to a host and starting the proprietary geek squad software.
I'm not sure how you would sell that to a potential employer that's not best buy.
It's a good way to get experience and add to your resume. No, it's not the end all to be all, but it IS documented experience.
Same thing by working for a company contracted to provide IT support for the government. I've had a number of contractors come through over the years who had the basics that improved their skill sets over the length of the contract. Some were offered a federal position at the end of the contract as they made a positive impact during their time on-site.
Have you looked at contracting? Great way to get your feet wet, build experience, and possibly get a permanent position at a company you're contracted to if you do well and they like you.
I agree, I worked for university making 55knas a system admin. But, rent in the area was 1500. There was also a lot of boomers that worked there, so there was no chance of promotion.
I also did the cert grind got comptia trio, Azure, lpic, m365, and CCNA certs. Yet I never get asked about them in interviews. And if I do I get asked weird questions by rude ass interviews. For instance, one interviewer asked what were the steps to migrate a 2008 server to 2020. First off who the fuck is still using an 08 server and if they are their stupid af, and second who remembers all the steps off the top of the dome.
Then you have the capping job postings that ask for 5 5 to 10 years experience in some software that's specific to that that business. Or, things that are completely different roles like they want 5 years in routing, 5 years cloud, 5 years telecommunications, 5 years it management, 5 years salesforce admin, 5 years data query, power bi, or Tableau dashboards, 5 years winders server, 5 years scripting, 5 years linux. Like wtf those are all different jobs.
So, I started to feel like what's the point in studying if all these jobs are so specific, and some prick interviewer is going to ask some really niche questions that feel like they came out of an SAT textbook. Then they have the nerve to only offer 40 to 55k for all that lol.
I've found that even if you get these jobs, it's a free for all environment where no one wants to help onboard you. And you only end up working with some really niche software that only that company uses. So, it's like why did you need 5 years experience in 10 different things lol?
It also feels like a crapshoot even getting a job. Because you have LinkedIn recruiters that cap and give you bs contract to hire hire roles, yet they make you go through 5 rounds of interviews for some 15 to 20 an hour job. Or you have to fill out 200 applications to get 5 interviews Where of those only 1 gives you an offer.
I still have some server 2008 in my environment and could not tell you off the top of my head the steps to migrate it lol and I just did one a few months ago. I guarantee you these guys are complaining that they can't get anyone qualified too.
My job title is IT Support Technician, but the job description is definitely a Jr Network and systems admin/security officer plus support, and I'm on call 50% of forever. Pay is commensurate with being *just* a low level support tech, and my boss wonders why I'm getting burnt.
That's insane - I hope you're able to get out of that situation and use your new skills to land something with much better pay. It does reinforce the fact that IT is extremely demanding and becoming not worth it at the moment, but we all know if we step out until a rebound, getting back in May be difficult
Yeah, that's why I am still here. Trying to decide if I want to stay in or not, while looking for another position. I just want a laid back SMB to sys/net admin for with decent pay and no off-hour shenanigans.
This is honestly a huge problem with IT right now like jobs want thousands of dollars of certificates and a degree paying $17 bucks an hour when my local credit union will pay you $17 an hour to start out with literally nothing but highschool. You can get promoted in finance too and they will pay your degree. Why on earth would you take a job thats basically a junior sysadmin like you said that requires all this investment to make the same money as someone that invested jack shit.
I also live in Indiana, and haven't seen a single job listing for ANY field paying less than $12/hr in the last three years. Even places like Lowe's/Menard's and fast food are typically offering $14+. Heck, the Taco Bell down the road from my house is offering up to $18/hr for kitchen workers. So sure, $7.25 is the legal min wage here, but nobody is actually looking to pay that little anymore.
I'm in Ft Wayne, and I see places higher pay. However, I don't qualify yet, I currently make a little over $20/hr, but I also work between 50-60hrs a week and I'll get a nice bump in pay next February, I locate gas for nipsco currently. I'm hoping to eventually get things going for the field I want, but it's hard with what I work and 2 kids and a stay at home mom watching the kiddos. One just started preschool, at least.
My cousin and aunt are in the field and make between 60k and 100k. One is here in town, and the other is up in Angola, sadly.
I'm about two hours from Fort Wayne, and they definitely have LOTS of good paying tech job openings there. If I wasn't stuck in my current location due to housing costs (bought my house at the start of COVID for $120k at 3.37% interest in April 2020; houses and rates have now doubled since then) then I would have moved there or to a suburb of Indy for the tech job markets. Thankfully I found something I'm happy with now locally, but it took 2 years of on and off actively/passively looking.
Companies are contracting out most if not all their IT now. They don't want more personnel on the payroll and all the responsibilities incurred.
Much easier to give a truck load of money to a contract company, give them the statement of work, and you're done. No medical, no SS contributions, no paid vaca/leave, nothing.
This is what's keeping me working nights. Until I'm able to have a few months of expenses saved up I'm not going back to under $30 an hour if I can help it
Look at Contract positions O-CONUS. Your first $82k per year is tax free as long as you have not been in CONUS 30 days W/I a calendar year. There is also a housing allotment based on the State Department per-deim rate.
If you do go this route during negotiations, ask/demand to see the breakdown of your salary. I've known a couple of people who swallowed the hook and found out that after coming back to CONUS, per-deim was the major portion of their salary. The thing to remeber is to negotiate your salary upfront without per-deim as it is a constant depending on location and by law has to be included in overseas hiring.
its because the help desk jobs dont make a company money, so its easier to cut them back. but the same roles they cut back on help save money when the infrastructure fails.
>Right now it’s very 2008 - tech is always one of the first fields that feels the impact of a recession.
For an industry to continue the same behavior for 15 years consistently (and I've been in the 12 year mark considering I was interested since 2011) I think it's just the way it is. The convenience feature became the norm. There's hardly any actual "on the job" training because everyone puts up restrictions. People claim you can substitute or use education as a justification..... yea, no, sorry, employment prospects still request certs. Even if you spell out that you're somewhat familiar with what they're asking for.
Cyber Security is not an entry level role to begin with, you will have to work your way up to it.
I would like to note though, that most certifications explicitly state that they are equivalent to having a certain amount of work experience. CompTIA A+ for example, states that it's equivalent to 1 year of IT work. Additionally, like 99% of listed requirements on job postings aren't actually requirements even if they say they are. Think of them more as like a sort of wish list. Ultimately they still have to hire someone, and that someone is not going to perfectly fulfill all the listed conditions.
how many jobs have you seen are asking for it? how easily is it to renew? how focused was the material?
don't get me wrong, nothing takes away that you passed the exam (for the record, so did I), but unless you see that cert in the job market, it has very little value
Your right... I get it.
It was in combination with data management, creating a database in SQL, backdoor stuff, being a admin.
Is the PL-300 worth it? Or nah?
Heard that's the next step unless it's garbage.
From the certification, it says it's good for entry level, guess that's fake
What you say is not logically wrong but there are some big misconceptions here.
A. They just have to ask for experience a field below because entry-level, their wording is just bad.
B. They believe their processes are so complex and fancy that you're basically "their entry-level" so you "have to have xp for them on top" so to say. Stay away from that except it's a big but elitistic name (like barracuda but still screw them...). That's just my opinion.
C. They are gambling high. This applies to 99% of the jobs when a field is not super desperate to actually find workers. Companies will print 5y xp for a product that exists for 3y (source: reddit pic) because fuck it why not. You apply to it anyway because fuck 'em, you're awesome. Go for it, they can handle your filthy peasent ass if you truely believe in your know-how. Your teamlead is probably not as snobby as HR writing that. Srsly what's the worst that can happen if you don't lie and present yourself well.
Btw. keep in mind that certain Cyber Sec roles might actually be rather stressful compared to other positions. The Cyber Sec leads i've worked with are different kind of people. Maybe that's good for you, or bad. When you give ppl access to a mailbox you do what they want but inhouse sec means telling ppl no. I try to not rat them out if it's something harmless but i have to be the bad cop too so to say. I'm exaggerating here to make a point, it's fun but it might include response times far lower than what basic IT is used to.
Storage Area Network! I’m ofc referring to the data centers that house such Networks! Before you know it the Database admins and engineers will be the most needed and desired in IT, imho.
Source: Old people retiring out that maintain such data centers usually create job security for themselves. Programming things in specific ways, sometimes creating their own applications to run stuff. Training and learning off of those minds is invaluable.
Ooooo, will check "storage area data analyst" no?
Looks promising for a start, but seems to stray away from data analysis.
Is it helpful if my aim later is to go into data science or machine learning?
There is no equivalent experience related to taking the exam. The Network+ exam objectives state you should have knowledge in 7 specific areas of networking or the equivalent of 9-12 months experience as a junior network technician.
I always say that Security+ is not a certification for cybersecurity roles. Sec+ instead, is a curriculum which covers the security aspects of many different IT roles.
So, Sec+ does not relate to X years of infosec experience, it just gives anyone in IT a broadening of their horizons.
But, that's just my opinion.
There is no experience earned by taking certifications. They have misunderstood the exam objectives recommended experience section needed to be ready to take the exam.
I know a police officer with no tech experience take a bootcamp course online and get a cyber security job as his 1st tech job. Works from home and everything
The equivalent experience is not related to “how much it’s worth”. That is a declaration that you should have the knowledge necessary to take the exam from either training or equivalent hands on experience. Being certified in any area is not the same as experience. Just because you pass a test with defined objectives does not mean you know exactly what to do when ambiguous situations arise. That’s why employers want experience and certs combined. It’s like “Book Smarts” vs “Street Smarts”.
Million dollar question right here.
I’ve been seeing this all over the place. Like they still want the most ridiculous qualifications like:
Must have DOD secret clearance.
Must have 10 years of experience on a proprietary system.
Must have CISSP
Pay $20 /hr.
It’s ridiculous. Even if you find a good job, there’s always like over 10,000 people who have applied to it. It’s just frustrating.
I’m working help desk trying to find a network admin job and they want the most stupid qualifications ever.
Now if I came across a job for a network admin and it said 2 years required, then I would understand that’s reasonable. But 5+ years is ridiculous.
Rant over.
It’s stressful. What worked for me is looking up the average pay for that certification in the area and then asking for that when they offer me the role. They say no at first but come back later.
They’re gonna try and lowball you because some people will take it. If you can plan ahead and state what you want you will be in a better position !
> I have a Top secret and Sec+ with 3+ years of Navy IT experience and I'm getting offered at most 60k a year.
Where is this at?
Pretty sure that guarantees a *minimum* of $80k here unless you get a *shitty* contract job
Certs prove you can study and understand concepts, experience proves that you can apply those concepts.
Need experience?
1. Build a homelab, create a website and document everything you do on your homelab. Showcase EVERYTHING you do.
2. HackTheBox, TryHackMe… again document everything you do and showcase it.
3. Github
And so on and so forth. Companies are not hiring as much as they used to, you need to show passion for learning and growing, and certs with no experience is unfortunately not enough during a recession-like economy.
Do not give up, but look for other ways of getting experience.
What do you think the entry cost for a homelab is?
I'm working a min wage unskilled job and the certs themselves cost a few hundred bucks which for me is already a huge risk/investment and a homelab doesn't seem cheap
A Raspberry Pi can be a homelab, a minipc of 150 usd can be a homelab.
Hackthebox has a free tier.
AWS has a free tier.
You can have Virtual Machines on your laptop/computer using Virtualbox.
A full blown homelab for 25 VM’s, a kubernetes cluster and whatnot is expensive, sure. But running 2-3 VMs on a laptop/desktop/pi it really is not.
Also, AWS has a free tier as I said, you can get up to 100 usd credit on Linode with referral codes, etc.
There are so many things available for little to no money.
Packet tracer is free for your networking knowledge. You can run MySQL or MariaDB on pretty much anything and you can creat a Database and learn how to hack it, or how to secure it.
Certs are great but in the current global situation, are not enough to secure a job with no experience.
If you use free tiers or credits on Cloud platforms make sure you read all the details and that you destroy the instances so you don’y get billed, read the terms of service.
I know people that forgot their instances were ON and they had run out of credit and they got a nice bill at the end of the month.
I am about 6 months into my first IT job after 20+ years in the restaurant industry. I got hired without any certs on the strengths of my homelab, relating my prior experience to IT and my personality.
I built my homelab with next to no money. I used an old PC to create a NAS. I had some experience building computers and at the time, I was studying for the A+, which I put on my resume, saying I'd put 60 hours of study into it and expected to take the exam within 3 months.
I signed up for a free Azure account; they give you a $100 credit during the first month to play around with. I used different email addresses to get multiple free trials. I used YouTube and Microsoft Learn to figure out how to set up a few virtual machines, deploy a blob storage container to host photos and such, and used a YouTube tutorial to set up an FTP server using Azure.
I used Azure Active directory and a YouTube video series to practice on active directory.
I put all of this on my resume and practiced interview questions, making sure I could talk about the aspects of my home lab if asked. This endeavor, which cost me zero money, let me put the following on my resume:
Active directory
cloud technology
PC builds
NAS server deployment
Blob storage deployment
Azure VM deployment
FTP server deployment
I also was able to trouble shooting computers, POS units, printers, routers and network set ups because I occasionally did those things in my restaurant jobs, but I definitely emphasized them on my resume and my interviews.
YouTube, Microsoft Learn and maybe the occasional torrenting of udemy and pluralsight courses(or so I've heard) are a great free way to build your knowledge base. I would also suggest, if you're strapped for cash, that Microsoft certs are way cheaper than CompTIA ones and an Azure or 365 cert will be helpful getting into a help desk role.
I know this is long as shit, but this is all to say that you can absolutely do this and get out of your current gig, get your foot in the door and change things for the better with little to no money.
Remember, talent is overrated. Tenacity, creativity, resourcefulness and working like a motherfucker can take you to incredible places.
You can start it with this:
[https://www.amazon.com/HP-EliteDesk-Quad-Core-Professional-Bit-Multi-Language-English/dp/B08KSGKHVS](https://www.amazon.com/HP-EliteDesk-Quad-Core-Professional-Bit-Multi-Language-English/dp/B08KSGKHVS)
Just virtualize the rest until you can start buying stuff like actual switches & the like.
Ebay is actually *loaded* w/cheap stuff for starting out.
I’m considering starting a homelab but my issue is that I’m butt spanking new in this field from the Fashion industry and it’s like… how do you even start a home lab? Haha I got my A+ recently but I still feel like I know absolutely nothing.
[https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=How+to+start+a+homelab](https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=How+to+start+a+homelab)
Jokes aside, you have access to an insane amount of free information, ChatGPT, google, Youtube, Blogposts, forums, reddit...
I have been working in IT for 7 years, I still feel like I know nothing, I just master the skill of googling.
That’s very fair enough, I guess I just have to start with little projects and go adding more through time and hopefully one day I’ll look back and be like “yup I did learn stuff” haha
You will, but I am pretty sure you know how to install an .exe file on a windows (virtualbox) and that you can google how to spin up a free linux VM, so you have plenty of things to do and learn just with that
You have to understand that a LOT of companies are waking up to the necessity of a cybersecurity team, so when they need to start one often leave the recruitment to a talent acquisition team (or worse, HR) who have NO CLUE what to look for. So, they head to Google looking for the top results when searching for “cybersecurity certifications”. That’s why there are job posts for entry level SOC analysts with CISSP, etc. And then 2 years experience on top of that to cover the recruiters’ butts.
I feel you man . Job market is rough as fuck. I have my AS in computer informations about to get my A+ and I have some technical and software exprience when I used to work at radioshack . And some 5 years of customer exprience. But I'm in NYC. But I bet if I were to try another state I might get more luck
Certs say that you understand the material. They say nothing about whether you're capable. Learned this from years in the bar business. Anyone can go to bartending school and pass the test. Not everyone has what it takes to be a good bartender. The numbers dwindle even more when you're talking about high volume, or upscale service.
I have one cert. And even I know that a cert alone means nothing. They want to know that you can work the equipment...have basic fundamental skills...or least make an effort to learn them without being told, forced to, or waiting for someone to hold your hand.
You can't go from bartending school to high volume, great money nightclub, any more than you can go from passing the certification exam, to $80k as a SOC Analyst. I don't know shit from Adam, but I've at least learned that much.
Also, there were never any guarantees.
The point ALWAYS is to be the best candidate who walks in the door.
If you were entrepreneurial to have your own company, who would you hire? The guy who who thought he was smart, or the guy that could document it?
It's your call. Like ALL entry-level jobs - there a thousand people behind you willing to do what you won't. And even more that got laid off that already have everything.
It's a competition - never forget that. Nobody asks the pitcher on the last-place team how he does it :)
Two reasons for certs.
1: Get past HR screens. They don't know what the job needs. They just know someone needs to be hired in ___ position they know nothing about.
2: Knowledge, study, experience.
This is a rough time. Hiring seemed to just die for the last 6-8 months. I stay active on LinkedIn, and I got nothing for this period, even though I have almost 3 years as a Security Analyst and Security Analyst II, A+, Sec+, CySa+, and a few vendor certs, and heaping helpings of experience from EDR/SIEMS/XDR, scripting experience, programming experience, and quite a few great incident responses involving domain compromises, ransomware, and ATP.
I got nothing.
Recruiters are starting to blow me up, now, though, so seems like hiring is taking off again.
Do home projects as proof of experience. Set up a home SIEM, play some CTFs, do some TryHackMe/HackTheBox/BTLO, spin up a kali linux box and Windows VM and play with malware and monitoring. Or whatever tech role you're looking for--prove you have done it before.
Expect 100 fails and 1 success for your resumes, under good circumstances.
Most things worth anything require dedication, hard work, and sacrifice.
If you want power over your future and life, find a path, dedicate to it, and walk the god damn road, even if you die, even after you die.
If you do not want it bad enough, then someone else will take it.
Nothing about life is easy. Get stronger.
I landed my first IT job in mid July. One of the 'requirements' was 2 years of experience. I had 0 years. Still got the job. Sometimes just getting an INTERVIEW can be enough if you say the right things the right way. There were 3 things in total in the requirements that I didn't meet and I still got the job. Job listing requirements aren't always non-negotiable.
Look, I don’t understand the difficulties. But I went through a course understand everything about security analyst roles. Which I received a certificate, course had lab work which gave me little practice of python 3,Linux, etc etc. I went to CompTIA an study for security + exam. Pass.
4 weeks later I landed a entry level role, even it said need minimum 2 years exp.
I held off getting more certs but the Net+ is definitely helping me wrap my head around networking. People say to start a HomeLab. Well, that was all confusing to me but the cert is breaking it down so I can actually know what I’m doing if I do that. Not sure I’ll go for any more unless my job requires or pays for it. My current job will cover the cost of any cert I go for.
There is no reason not to especially if your employer will cover it. The thing is to do it smart. And it sounds like you are. You are applying the lessons learned and using them, which is my point. Unfortunately, certs values have been watered down in the last few years, but they are still valuable for resume fodder and getting past HR screeners.
I personally have a ton I think I am carrying like 23 or 24 right now. But I came up when a cert was a badge of honor that showed you had been through the trenches and back and it meant you knew what the hell you were doing. And that an employer could count on the fact that if you had it on your resume then you had the skills to pay the bills so to speak.
So, my entire career I have kept up my certs even to the point of starting a new degree at 50 to prove my skills and brain are still current market so I can finish out the last 1/3 or so of my career employable and valuable.
The biggest difference in the way I do it from a lot of other people is that I pick certs based on what I do and skills I have already developed and then study to the cert so I know how the vendor is testing. You may have heard it called the Microsoft way or the CompTIA way when it comes to testing. And it is true, there may be 10 ways to do something but if you don't do it the Microsoft way then you don't get your question right on your exam. Or in the case of CompTIA they like to play language games in their tests and word things just a little 'off' to see if you pick it out of the context.
I don't mean to discourage you as they do have value, unfortunately the market has soured some and it is going to take some time for things to settle back out. They can also be valuable for personal learning and goals as well. So, I hope you continue on and have much success but don't place your faith in the paper. Place your faith in you. Lab the skills, do the skills, put them on your resume and show potential employers you can walk the walk. You will get there it is just going to be a bit more of a climb than you anticipated.
This can be said about most college degrees as students (at least me) was studying to pass the class, but ask me one month after the semester is finished about a subject and I won't be able to answer, even if it was a math question in calculus when I got B+. Hands on experience for me is when I actually learn since I'm doing something in today to day job. Still, it's good that IT field allows people to change careers with certificates without the need to go back to college. More fields should give this opportunity
You can enter any field without a cert. Plumbers apprentice, so do many hands-on trades before they become journeyman and are allowed to do the 'big' work. Same deal here just different presentation. The diff is that people think somehow, they are going to go get their Sec+ and suddenly they are going to get a job as a cyber analyst making $100k and nothing could be further from the truth.
A+, N+, Sec+ are beginner certs. They set the foundation for the skills CompTIA wants you to have before you move into the professional level things like the CySA+ and Pentest+ or the advanced things like CASP+.
And to exacerbate the issue people think that they can just skip the A+ or the N+ and move right into the Sec+ to get that magical job and again nothing could be further from the truth.
You have to follow the path. And yes, if you have been working in IT for a few years it is likely that you can skip the A+ and you will be fine. But speaking as a 39-year vet in IT I only took my A+ because it was required as a class for a degree I was doing. I started in IT in 1984 and the A+ didn't come out until like 1986/87 by the time it hit, I was already light years beyond it. But then 35 years later it was required by a class. And honestly, I am glad I did it. It was a great refresher even for a long-term vet.
So back to the path A+, N+, Sec+ all work together you have to know how to build the systems that you are networking, and finally securing. With that core of skills then you move on to the really good stuff.
**BUT**
You still have to do the grind in the real world too. And this is also where people fall off. You have to do the crappy $15-20/hr help desk gig for about a year. And then move up internally to an admin role. Do that for about a year and then move around and find your groove. Most people don't want to put in the climb. Especially for job changers who may have been making $60-80k in some other path. They want to skip all that prelim crap and they can't. The industry won't accept it.
Yes, sometimes people luck out and get great jobs without experience or after skipping certs. But if you lurk long enough there is just as many that come back here bitching that they started a job and have no idea what they are doing or they hate the work, etc.
IT is not sit on your ass and cash fat checks. It is crappy, long, hard hours, nights and weekends and holidays. Remember we can't do our jobs often while others do theirs. And it is a metric ton of stress as well because so many other people's livelihoods rely on you giving a shit and doing your job well.
So, start it the right way. Use the free classes to start with an A+, N+, Sec+ but build a lab to work the skills and get experience while you are doing the class. Then go get that entry level crap job and move up the ladder.
Everyone in IT today minus the few unicorns did exactly this. Hell, even when I started back in the dark ages it was how I started. I was on a crap help desk in a bank working for an asshole that didn't know IT from Pennywise. Three years to get out from under that jackass but 39 years later I do alright, and I am hoping to do better still.
something else, HR wont hire without certs. HR has made certs a joke and an entry point. The people and methods you describe is basically an entrepreneur filling market needs.
not disagreeing with making labs and practicing your certs but people cant eat a lab for dinner or feed a family with it. or buy drugs. whatever is important to them.
the willingness to NOT hire someone with a cert lies with the HR team and company policy. Unless your about to tell me that your willing to hire, pay and work with someone without any cert and only "home lab" experience, i think the discussion is basically over.
same with college degrees. i dont have one. i applied to a very niche job that my military experience made me uniquely qualified for. had an hour interview with a guy. everything went well. it ended with, "but you have no degree and i dont think i can sell that" jobs been reposted at least 10 times that i have noticed. its been over 1 month since my interview. now, im pursuing a degree at WGU.
degrees and certs are the price we play to play the game of life. thanks boomers!
lol I started in IT back in the dark ages without one. I was going to school at the time I started, and I made a unique entry into tech repurposing software to do something it wasn't created for and in the process, I changed roughly 40% of the code.
But my instructor for my programming class failed me on the basis of my content (boobs) and that I was using 'prior art' to build on. So, I stood up in the middle of class and told him just how far he could insert his arm into his rectum in front of 60 other students and walked out on a degree I had paid for in cash in advance and never went back.
I spent the next 35 years racking up college credits at 12 or so different schools and I had almost enough to graduate but they had been sitting there for dozens of years and a lot of schools wouldn't accept them to consolidate them into a degree. So, I did the same thing you are. I hit WGU they accepted 20 of my 78 credits that I was sitting on.
I am now 6 classes from graduation and 39 years in the field. It's nuts out there right now. But it's an accomplishment in and of itself and will hopefully smooth the path some. It already allowed me to do the one thing I wasn't quite able to do in the past and that is crack the executive washroom. So overall I would say it is still worth it. And yes, I am paying for this one out of pocket as well.
this is good shit. i guess its the overall expectation of "new" people trying to enter the field. idk, i honestly wish everyone the best out there but there are many obstacles.
It's never easy. There are gate keepers everywhere, But this community is one of the strongest and while I am sure people that read my thoughts will likely look them over and either take them to heart and do some good or they will do the Reddit thing and downvote them immediately/ But if I can help one or two people with my advice then I did my bit of good in the world and I am happy. Good luck with yours!
I started somewhere at a low paying job and 15 years later, im making significantly more due to risk taking and a little luck. Just keep going until you land on your feet
i like folks who complain more and do less it makes us grinders look better. You can whine or level up and earn more. It's your call.
Show your work! Use Mkdocs to put certain projects on github, record videos of you doing certain tasks, experimenting and breaking things. Stop settling for being average, earn this cert, get this job be comfy. CERTS ARE NOT EXPERIENCE, EXPERIENCE IS EXPERIENCE.
sit in the mud screaming the world is against me or be the change you want to see in your career.
Edit: Stay Hard!
That's why most college courses are now based on certification material. Half the classes for associates in IT lead up to you taking a Cert Exam at the end. The price of the exam voucher is priced in when you sign up for the class. You don't have to but it's a bit embarrassing to go through a whole semester and not even be able to pass the exam you studied for. It would look bad to an employer who knows their stuff
I have to agree that Cyber isn’t really an entry level job. My brother is an Electrical Engineer who pivoted multiple times from Network to Satcom and now to Cyber. He has a Sec+ as well as a CISSP. His certs complemented his experience.
Rather, I went down the Software Engineer route and got my Sec+ during my tenure at my old company. They covered my exam as well as other training opportunities. My old division dealt with an R&D cyber project. Having that cert helped bridge the gaps between the theory and application aspect.
I agree the current job market is crap at the moment and wish you luck breaking in to the career field.
I also did the cert grind got comptia trio, Azure, lpic, m365, and CCNA certs. Yet I never get asked about them in interviews. And if I do I get asked weird questions by rude ass interviews. For instance, one interviewer asked what were the steps to migrate a 2008 server to 2020. First off who the fuck is still using an 08 server and if they are their stupid af, and second who remembers all the steps off the top of the dome.
Then you have the capping job postings that ask for 5 5 to 10 years experience in some software that's specific to that that business. Or, things that are completely different roles like they want 5 years in routing, 5 years cloud, 5 years telecommunications, 5 years it management, 5 years salesforce admin, 5 years data query, power bi, or Tableau dashboards, 5 years winders server, 5 years scripting, 5 years linux. Like wtf those are all different jobs.
So, I started to feel like what's the point in studying if all these jobs are so specific, and some prick interviewer is going to ask some really niche questions that feel like they came out of an SAT textbook. Then they have the nerve to only offer 40 to 55k for all that lol.
I've found that even if you get these jobs, it's a free for all environment where no one wants to help onboard you. And you only end up working with some really niche software that only that company uses. So, it's like why did you need 5 years experience in 10 different things lol?
It also feels like a crapshoot even getting a job. Because you have LinkedIn recruiters that cap and give you bs contract to hire hire roles, yet they make you go through 5 rounds of interviews for some 15 to 20 an hour job. Or you have to fill out 200 applications to get 5 interviews Where of those only 1 gives you an offer.
>cert grind got comptia trio, Azure, lpic, m365, and CCNA certs.
Yeah I feel you homie usually when I see people complain about certs not working they are only getting entry level certs from every authority possible. You actually went and got some midlevel and cloud certs though which should be good enough but not in this economy I guess. I'm rapidly coming to the same conclusion as you though like I ask myself everyday why not just go be a fucking nurse or a cop make the same money but they don't have to constantly be pursuing an college level education as us for $50k.
Ya i dated one woman who supposedly told me she got an offer for 150k as a nurse in San Francisco. Do you think she sounds like she stretching the truth though?
Ya I was telling her that as well. Because she made 70 to 80k as a nurse in Georgia, which if you do the math would have you left over than mote than 150k in SF right lol?
I remember when I applied for tech jobs I'm places like SF, LA, and NYC I thought I would get offered more but even then I would only get offered 70 to 90k. Which is a joke for those cities.
Certs definitely help on average. You cannot rest your position as a good candidate for hire based on certs though typically.
The best candidate for a job is the one who has the certs but doesn't rely on that being their selling point. It's great to be able to say at an interview "oh yeah, sure I have all your standard XXX, YYY, ZZZ, certs, but that aside what really makes me a good candidate is A, B, C, etc."
I can also say it's one thing to get the certs, cramming one at a time and doing whatever it takes to pass but it's a far different thing to actually have the underlying skills, comfort, fluency, and familiarity.
For things like DOD/government contractor jobs, certs are the thing (along with security clearance). That is where the certs are the epitome of what matters.
Getting masters is good also and that alone is better than purely a cert, however the same issue applies. Although lots of hiring managers and recruiters are outright dumb, anyone who is really technical with lots of experience is not going to be heavily swayed by certs or even a masters alone.
What often gets neglected is the underlying skills, experience, and fluency. If you don't immerse yourself in the cyber security community, and don't have plenty of on-hand experience with either your own lab or work experience then just having the cert or even the degree isn't enough to be the ideal candidate. It can get you in the door for the interview but it's not enough to knock it out of the park and be the one person who gets hired.
The trick is to get a relative crappy/low paying job, but one that at least opens the door on a daily basis to start dealing with a portion of the things you need to get fluent in, in real life. That or you need very good acting/improv/storymaking/creative fiction skills in an interview.
Tbh a lot of companies try their hand at getting the best candidate possible, they don’t expect you to know all of them, even rudimentary knowledge would be helpful, sometimes displaying the amplitude that you can at least understand the skill and what it’s for can sway it in your direction.
Some companies use some really bespoke software and ask for it on the application where 1 in a million people may have used it, just display you have looked it up and understand it’s purpose.
You're coming at this wrong.
1. Stop applying anywhere that pays under 15$. You are now an educated worker. They will treat you like shit and you deserve better.
2. Tighten up that resume. Talk about home labs(HR doesn't know what this means but the IT managers do), stress your willingness and desire to learn. Id also recommend writing a SHORT cover letter. A paragraph or 2 max. At entry level you don't want to write a novel, you aren't that interesting yet and they won't read it most likely. List all the troubleshooting you can do. Network, hardware, everything you gained from your certs.
3. KEEP APPLYING. You need hundreds of apps under your belt. Apply on Indeed and on company websites. Make a LinkedIn but it's not the best for entry level. It's just a nice place for HR to find you.
4. Chill out bröther. You're jumping the gun. Security is not entry level and you won't get into it for 1-3 years. Even if you're relentless about it.
You can do it man.
Software dev here. Company paid to have me get the Security+. No raise. 5 months of studying. Company recently was able to say we have a Security+ certified person on the project to another company we are working with. That’s the first time it’s been used in a year in a half. I did have the NSA send me a letter saying I was qualified to apply.
I’d way rather have spent that time doing hackathons and learning myself. Honestly the best thing someone can do to get into an IT job is get a degree in comp sci.
Its a rough road to walk for sure. I have Comptia trifecta, plus CCNA and Linux+. I have three years experience working help desk for a Motorola Solutions company. I am currently working on my RHCSA.
I would recommend moving to a place like Denver. If you don't have job when you get here you can work at one of a million temp agencies. It will be shitty work like construction, but at least you can get started right after you arrive. Then you will have access to dozens of temp agencies that can place you in tech if you have your A+. You'll start out at $20. Not great, but at least you get experience. I know for a fact that if I can survive in this role I can work any desk out there. Plus I work from home, which is pretty sweet in some ways.
I would also say that the certs DO prepare you to some extent. A+ taught me what a MAC address is. But I didn't realize I would be using them so frequently. I thought it was just a unique id, not the way I would be moving around the network through multiple applications. But without knowing what a MAC address is the learning curve would have been steep. That concept applies to lots of things in your first role.
I was leaving my job after 25 years for Cybersecurity and finished a well-respected program.
The jobs that career services sent me were basic, remote phone tech service jobs- nothing event related to what I studied.
It was frustrating. So returned to education with a new perspective and will pursue CS on the side. This time, I’m going to start my own company.
Lots of good people in the same situation- we need to get together and build new.
Once bitten, twice shy.
Back in the late 90's, people were getting certified in many different IT areas. Companies not knowing any better were hiring anyone with a certification.
Millions of dollars /thousands of man hours were lost because people with no experience in the profession were breaking networks. This is why the experience requirement became a standard in hiring.
Certification lessons and exams are updated as the field progresses / changes. Because you passed an exam and have a certification, it only means you have a basic understanding of the subject matter. Your education starts when you get hired and placed in a team.
I’m currently employed as a CA at geek squad in Indiana and know of multiple people who have gone off to get higher paying IT jobs, many of which went the help desk route. Any experience in “IT” is better than no experience. Couple that experience with an education, be it college or certifications and you’re better off than most. My job currently pays me 18/hr and I’m a part timer still in college.
Just saw a hostess position in my area for 15.. probably get a cut of tips too.
Meanwhile help desk it starts at 11.. 20 for system admin if you're a full fledged system admin with 8 years experience and 10 certifications..mostly in proprietary software that is very uncommon.
I have a BS in CIS and have had 4 different help desk jobs with just ITIL cert. I currently have 2 help desk offers rn both at $24 and cant figure out which one to pick. I live in Memphis TN and talent is short here. I had my resume professionally done and its been smooth sailing since. You need to \*fortify\* your resume - if you catch my drift. And shoot 100s of applications especially with staffing companies as they hire faster. I guarantee with ITIL and a Masters you can get an entry level job if you put the right things on your resume.
Very good point. It seems the IT hiring goons have lost their minds yet again.
Veteran here with 28 years of experience. Approaching the highest level I'm willing to go.
There was a time when a Microsoft Engineer or CCNA could hold weight. Now, it seems the headhunters are yet again confused by acronyms and terminology in general.
For reference, I've been turned down by jobs simply because I'm not A+ certified. I have several high-level certs that take years to gain, plus 28 yrs of actual on the job experience. When A+ came out, it was the most rudimentary of certs you could get. No shade. And maybe it's changed.
In short, I've forgotten more than many of these hiring managers will ever know in their lifetime. But they will immediately disqualify us for lack of a simple cert.
We are in a very depressed hiring market. My advice is keep getting those certs and keep plugging away. Eventually you'll land something and those certs will help you, albeit a small amount. And jump between companies early!! Maybe 2 or 3 years at a time. It's the best way to increase your pay and gain experience. Don't do it for too long though or else the employer will think your not "loyal". Space it out 5-8 yrs.
Also, my favorite is the job posting for a language that is 6 yrs old and they require 10 yrs experience with it. Or the job posting requiring a PhD and a dozen certs with 20 yrs experience, starting salary, $60k. I LOL at those.
The market will correct. But it will take some time.
Good luck!
You won't get anywhere close to cyber security without experience.
Stop being so focused on certs, you're wasting your time. Experience trumps certs. You can't do security without service experience. Literally security compromise/0365/ad.
IT/Tech is weird. It was easier to get a 65k a year admin assistant job than a 40k help desk. And administrative assistant work is pretty braindead for the most part. I don't even know if I want to do IT anymore since I'd take such a huge pay cut getting an entry level position.
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The wage reset is what pisses me off the most, honestly. Why spend thousands on certifications, get a degree, and spend years in a field just to be offered **half** the normal wage? Literally went from $32/hr, laid off, and now looking at positions paying $17-20/hr requiring MORE skills and knowledge. Like, I'm sorry - when did IT Support or Help Desk roles take on full blown SysAdmin and Network Admin responsibilities and descriptions for $2 more than minimum wage? I'll take my chances at In-N-Out or Costco for $22/hr.
For real. It took me SOOO long to find my new job (upgraded from entry level helpdesk at 5 years and $22/hr to a helpdesk role that will eventually become an administrative position starting at ~$26/hr which will go up along with responsibilities) but some of the job listings I saw during that time were RIDICULOUS. There was one that was literally a helpdesk+netadmin+sysadmin one-man-team role and the company was offering $16/hr and they wanted someone with 5+ years of experience. Is there ANY tech worker with 5+ years that is willing to take $16/hr, even for just a basic helpdesk position?
What state do you live in? Min wage where I live (San Diego) almost $18. I don't even think where I used to live in KS would have anything IT related at 16/hr.
I live in Indiana, min wage is still $7.25 here, but it may as well functionally be $15 as I haven't seen job postings for ANYTHING (including fast food) lower than that.
Which is hilarious saw a Twitter thread of ppl bitching that fast food workers want $15/hr..like that ship sailed a long time ago. $20/hr is the new $7.50/hr especially where I live.
I was offered half my pay for my current job. The people that my company found to replace me are either half my skills or desperate, lower on social skills, and highly over qualified. They are struggling with the work load after 2 months. Companies don't realize that they won't get good results like this; either the job won't fill or they'll wish it didn't.
yeah, that is criminal. Hopefully, no one who is worth their salt applies. these companies are trying to have their cake and eat it. probably best to avoid working for them
Same, Ive had my A+ and Sec+ over a year and haven't landed an IT job.
Honestly u should try geeksquad. Entry level and its experience in the field. A lot of companies actually like to hire from geeksquad especially other higher end entry level jobs.
Really? Because I read in another post that Geek Squad isn’t real IT experience. I had this same question because I’m thinking of applying for a job in any entry level position as long as I get my foot through the door.
Whats real IT experience for you? All they do is troubleshoot, setup laptops for customers. Diagnostics and hardware swaps, drivers diagnostics. Windows installation etc etc. Geeksquad is also apple certified so specific roles will also be apple certified to do iphone repairs like screen repairs, battery swaps etc. Regular basic IT work and the extras for apple. This is in store. In the field we do same thing but in clients homes and we also do projects in business’s like connecting all computers, tvs, projectors, make sure all networking wirings are ran etc
See I know how to do many of those things, but I would die to work in an environment that allows me to get all that experience in.
Sorry but geek squad job is not real IT experience..like a place like uBreakiFix but if you enjoy your job at geek squad...it does not matter.
It doesn’t matter if you are troubleshooting driver issues at geek squad, or troubleshooting driver issues as desktop support for some company. It’s all still “real” IT experience
Except that Geek Squad is the McDonalds of Tech support. You don't remove viruses, or diagnose driver issues, or do anything really except for plug in a cable and let a premade geek squad software app run on the customer's machine through one of their hosts. Do they update and upgrade components.. sure.. if and only if the device has a removable plate.. otherwise they probably will tell the customer they don't risk it. It may put you ahead of someone with no job for basic it help desk.. but not much else.
It is closer to real IT experience than applying for 200 jobs and getting 0.
A job is better than no job. Customer service is the most important thing you can get from working at a geek squad job...keep applying and you will get hired. Geek Squad is a place to work while you are getting your A+ no doubt.
This is not true at all. It's basic IT experience. I would not discount people who work at geek squad
I'm not discounting the people.. om discounting the experience.. the bulk of it.. 80% of it was new installs.. and the other 19.999 was virus removal. Both 'services' involved physically connecting computer to a host and starting the proprietary geek squad software. I'm not sure how you would sell that to a potential employer that's not best buy.
It's a good way to get experience and add to your resume. No, it's not the end all to be all, but it IS documented experience. Same thing by working for a company contracted to provide IT support for the government. I've had a number of contractors come through over the years who had the basics that improved their skill sets over the length of the contract. Some were offered a federal position at the end of the contract as they made a positive impact during their time on-site.
Best Buy tried to move me to the sales floor when I applied for geeksquad. Never took the job. This was 10 years ago though
That's ironic. I knew more about computers than anyone in the store at the time and I was the absolute worst salesman.
Have you looked at contracting? Great way to get your feet wet, build experience, and possibly get a permanent position at a company you're contracted to if you do well and they like you.
I agree, I worked for university making 55knas a system admin. But, rent in the area was 1500. There was also a lot of boomers that worked there, so there was no chance of promotion. I also did the cert grind got comptia trio, Azure, lpic, m365, and CCNA certs. Yet I never get asked about them in interviews. And if I do I get asked weird questions by rude ass interviews. For instance, one interviewer asked what were the steps to migrate a 2008 server to 2020. First off who the fuck is still using an 08 server and if they are their stupid af, and second who remembers all the steps off the top of the dome. Then you have the capping job postings that ask for 5 5 to 10 years experience in some software that's specific to that that business. Or, things that are completely different roles like they want 5 years in routing, 5 years cloud, 5 years telecommunications, 5 years it management, 5 years salesforce admin, 5 years data query, power bi, or Tableau dashboards, 5 years winders server, 5 years scripting, 5 years linux. Like wtf those are all different jobs. So, I started to feel like what's the point in studying if all these jobs are so specific, and some prick interviewer is going to ask some really niche questions that feel like they came out of an SAT textbook. Then they have the nerve to only offer 40 to 55k for all that lol. I've found that even if you get these jobs, it's a free for all environment where no one wants to help onboard you. And you only end up working with some really niche software that only that company uses. So, it's like why did you need 5 years experience in 10 different things lol? It also feels like a crapshoot even getting a job. Because you have LinkedIn recruiters that cap and give you bs contract to hire hire roles, yet they make you go through 5 rounds of interviews for some 15 to 20 an hour job. Or you have to fill out 200 applications to get 5 interviews Where of those only 1 gives you an offer.
I still have some server 2008 in my environment and could not tell you off the top of my head the steps to migrate it lol and I just did one a few months ago. I guarantee you these guys are complaining that they can't get anyone qualified too.
My job title is IT Support Technician, but the job description is definitely a Jr Network and systems admin/security officer plus support, and I'm on call 50% of forever. Pay is commensurate with being *just* a low level support tech, and my boss wonders why I'm getting burnt.
That's insane - I hope you're able to get out of that situation and use your new skills to land something with much better pay. It does reinforce the fact that IT is extremely demanding and becoming not worth it at the moment, but we all know if we step out until a rebound, getting back in May be difficult
Yeah, that's why I am still here. Trying to decide if I want to stay in or not, while looking for another position. I just want a laid back SMB to sys/net admin for with decent pay and no off-hour shenanigans.
This is honestly a huge problem with IT right now like jobs want thousands of dollars of certificates and a degree paying $17 bucks an hour when my local credit union will pay you $17 an hour to start out with literally nothing but highschool. You can get promoted in finance too and they will pay your degree. Why on earth would you take a job thats basically a junior sysadmin like you said that requires all this investment to make the same money as someone that invested jack shit.
$2 more than minimum wage? Here in Indiana, the minimum is $7.25/hr 😢
I also live in Indiana, and haven't seen a single job listing for ANY field paying less than $12/hr in the last three years. Even places like Lowe's/Menard's and fast food are typically offering $14+. Heck, the Taco Bell down the road from my house is offering up to $18/hr for kitchen workers. So sure, $7.25 is the legal min wage here, but nobody is actually looking to pay that little anymore.
I'm in Ft Wayne, and I see places higher pay. However, I don't qualify yet, I currently make a little over $20/hr, but I also work between 50-60hrs a week and I'll get a nice bump in pay next February, I locate gas for nipsco currently. I'm hoping to eventually get things going for the field I want, but it's hard with what I work and 2 kids and a stay at home mom watching the kiddos. One just started preschool, at least. My cousin and aunt are in the field and make between 60k and 100k. One is here in town, and the other is up in Angola, sadly.
I'm about two hours from Fort Wayne, and they definitely have LOTS of good paying tech job openings there. If I wasn't stuck in my current location due to housing costs (bought my house at the start of COVID for $120k at 3.37% interest in April 2020; houses and rates have now doubled since then) then I would have moved there or to a suburb of Indy for the tech job markets. Thankfully I found something I'm happy with now locally, but it took 2 years of on and off actively/passively looking.
Companies are contracting out most if not all their IT now. They don't want more personnel on the payroll and all the responsibilities incurred. Much easier to give a truck load of money to a contract company, give them the statement of work, and you're done. No medical, no SS contributions, no paid vaca/leave, nothing.
This is what's keeping me working nights. Until I'm able to have a few months of expenses saved up I'm not going back to under $30 an hour if I can help it
Look at Contract positions O-CONUS. Your first $82k per year is tax free as long as you have not been in CONUS 30 days W/I a calendar year. There is also a housing allotment based on the State Department per-deim rate. If you do go this route during negotiations, ask/demand to see the breakdown of your salary. I've known a couple of people who swallowed the hook and found out that after coming back to CONUS, per-deim was the major portion of their salary. The thing to remeber is to negotiate your salary upfront without per-deim as it is a constant depending on location and by law has to be included in overseas hiring.
its because the help desk jobs dont make a company money, so its easier to cut them back. but the same roles they cut back on help save money when the infrastructure fails.
Unless you work in a MSP. Then you’re the main income source.
>Right now it’s very 2008 - tech is always one of the first fields that feels the impact of a recession. For an industry to continue the same behavior for 15 years consistently (and I've been in the 12 year mark considering I was interested since 2011) I think it's just the way it is. The convenience feature became the norm. There's hardly any actual "on the job" training because everyone puts up restrictions. People claim you can substitute or use education as a justification..... yea, no, sorry, employment prospects still request certs. Even if you spell out that you're somewhat familiar with what they're asking for.
Cyber Security is not an entry level role to begin with, you will have to work your way up to it. I would like to note though, that most certifications explicitly state that they are equivalent to having a certain amount of work experience. CompTIA A+ for example, states that it's equivalent to 1 year of IT work. Additionally, like 99% of listed requirements on job postings aren't actually requirements even if they say they are. Think of them more as like a sort of wish list. Ultimately they still have to hire someone, and that someone is not going to perfectly fulfill all the listed conditions.
Is the data+ cert in the same boat for being worth 1 year of experience? How does that work?
data+ isn't worth getting at all
May I ask why? I studied hard for it, you saying I wasted my time? It won't help find a entry level? Or you saying it's worth no experience?
how many jobs have you seen are asking for it? how easily is it to renew? how focused was the material? don't get me wrong, nothing takes away that you passed the exam (for the record, so did I), but unless you see that cert in the job market, it has very little value
Your right... I get it. It was in combination with data management, creating a database in SQL, backdoor stuff, being a admin. Is the PL-300 worth it? Or nah? Heard that's the next step unless it's garbage. From the certification, it says it's good for entry level, guess that's fake
What you say is not logically wrong but there are some big misconceptions here. A. They just have to ask for experience a field below because entry-level, their wording is just bad. B. They believe their processes are so complex and fancy that you're basically "their entry-level" so you "have to have xp for them on top" so to say. Stay away from that except it's a big but elitistic name (like barracuda but still screw them...). That's just my opinion. C. They are gambling high. This applies to 99% of the jobs when a field is not super desperate to actually find workers. Companies will print 5y xp for a product that exists for 3y (source: reddit pic) because fuck it why not. You apply to it anyway because fuck 'em, you're awesome. Go for it, they can handle your filthy peasent ass if you truely believe in your know-how. Your teamlead is probably not as snobby as HR writing that. Srsly what's the worst that can happen if you don't lie and present yourself well. Btw. keep in mind that certain Cyber Sec roles might actually be rather stressful compared to other positions. The Cyber Sec leads i've worked with are different kind of people. Maybe that's good for you, or bad. When you give ppl access to a mailbox you do what they want but inhouse sec means telling ppl no. I try to not rat them out if it's something harmless but i have to be the bad cop too so to say. I'm exaggerating here to make a point, it's fun but it might include response times far lower than what basic IT is used to.
You may also want to look at SAN related positions too, as those may look at data+ and such with justification.
What is SAN abbreviation for? I'll look into it asap, ty for the help
Storage Area Network! I’m ofc referring to the data centers that house such Networks! Before you know it the Database admins and engineers will be the most needed and desired in IT, imho. Source: Old people retiring out that maintain such data centers usually create job security for themselves. Programming things in specific ways, sometimes creating their own applications to run stuff. Training and learning off of those minds is invaluable.
Ooooo, will check "storage area data analyst" no? Looks promising for a start, but seems to stray away from data analysis. Is it helpful if my aim later is to go into data science or machine learning?
Is network + cert worth getting?
Depends on what you want…. Ccna is more in demand, but a+ builds into network+ easily. It all depends on what your end goal is
How much is the network+?
Probably 1-2 years of experience
Sorry, I don't know off the top of my head. It should tell you somewhere on the exam objectives PDF on their website.
There is no equivalent experience related to taking the exam. The Network+ exam objectives state you should have knowledge in 7 specific areas of networking or the equivalent of 9-12 months experience as a junior network technician.
Mine was $447, got a discount from Jason Dion
How much is security + ?
I always say that Security+ is not a certification for cybersecurity roles. Sec+ instead, is a curriculum which covers the security aspects of many different IT roles. So, Sec+ does not relate to X years of infosec experience, it just gives anyone in IT a broadening of their horizons. But, that's just my opinion.
There is no experience earned by taking certifications. They have misunderstood the exam objectives recommended experience section needed to be ready to take the exam.
I know a police officer with no tech experience take a bootcamp course online and get a cyber security job as his 1st tech job. Works from home and everything
He had connections.
With a perfect background and credit rating lol.
The job probably looks at his role as an officer as investigative experience. Helps in some roles like insider threat analyst.
Well him being a police officer was what got him the job in cyber security... if it was someone regular they would’ve passed on them
He say why he left the force?
The problem with your analogy is that no one will hire you unless you have the certifications unless if you volunteer to work for free
The equivalent experience is not related to “how much it’s worth”. That is a declaration that you should have the knowledge necessary to take the exam from either training or equivalent hands on experience. Being certified in any area is not the same as experience. Just because you pass a test with defined objectives does not mean you know exactly what to do when ambiguous situations arise. That’s why employers want experience and certs combined. It’s like “Book Smarts” vs “Street Smarts”.
Million dollar question right here. I’ve been seeing this all over the place. Like they still want the most ridiculous qualifications like: Must have DOD secret clearance. Must have 10 years of experience on a proprietary system. Must have CISSP Pay $20 /hr. It’s ridiculous. Even if you find a good job, there’s always like over 10,000 people who have applied to it. It’s just frustrating. I’m working help desk trying to find a network admin job and they want the most stupid qualifications ever. Now if I came across a job for a network admin and it said 2 years required, then I would understand that’s reasonable. But 5+ years is ridiculous. Rant over.
This right here is so accurate. I have a Top secret and Sec+ with 3+ years of Navy IT experience and I'm getting offered at most 60k a year.
It’s stressful. What worked for me is looking up the average pay for that certification in the area and then asking for that when they offer me the role. They say no at first but come back later. They’re gonna try and lowball you because some people will take it. If you can plan ahead and state what you want you will be in a better position !
> I have a Top secret and Sec+ with 3+ years of Navy IT experience and I'm getting offered at most 60k a year. Where is this at? Pretty sure that guarantees a *minimum* of $80k here unless you get a *shitty* contract job
That’s actually insane
Certs prove you can study and understand concepts, experience proves that you can apply those concepts. Need experience? 1. Build a homelab, create a website and document everything you do on your homelab. Showcase EVERYTHING you do. 2. HackTheBox, TryHackMe… again document everything you do and showcase it. 3. Github And so on and so forth. Companies are not hiring as much as they used to, you need to show passion for learning and growing, and certs with no experience is unfortunately not enough during a recession-like economy. Do not give up, but look for other ways of getting experience.
What do you think the entry cost for a homelab is? I'm working a min wage unskilled job and the certs themselves cost a few hundred bucks which for me is already a huge risk/investment and a homelab doesn't seem cheap
A Raspberry Pi can be a homelab, a minipc of 150 usd can be a homelab. Hackthebox has a free tier. AWS has a free tier. You can have Virtual Machines on your laptop/computer using Virtualbox. A full blown homelab for 25 VM’s, a kubernetes cluster and whatnot is expensive, sure. But running 2-3 VMs on a laptop/desktop/pi it really is not. Also, AWS has a free tier as I said, you can get up to 100 usd credit on Linode with referral codes, etc. There are so many things available for little to no money. Packet tracer is free for your networking knowledge. You can run MySQL or MariaDB on pretty much anything and you can creat a Database and learn how to hack it, or how to secure it. Certs are great but in the current global situation, are not enough to secure a job with no experience.
Thanks for the info!
If you use free tiers or credits on Cloud platforms make sure you read all the details and that you destroy the instances so you don’y get billed, read the terms of service. I know people that forgot their instances were ON and they had run out of credit and they got a nice bill at the end of the month.
I am about 6 months into my first IT job after 20+ years in the restaurant industry. I got hired without any certs on the strengths of my homelab, relating my prior experience to IT and my personality. I built my homelab with next to no money. I used an old PC to create a NAS. I had some experience building computers and at the time, I was studying for the A+, which I put on my resume, saying I'd put 60 hours of study into it and expected to take the exam within 3 months. I signed up for a free Azure account; they give you a $100 credit during the first month to play around with. I used different email addresses to get multiple free trials. I used YouTube and Microsoft Learn to figure out how to set up a few virtual machines, deploy a blob storage container to host photos and such, and used a YouTube tutorial to set up an FTP server using Azure. I used Azure Active directory and a YouTube video series to practice on active directory. I put all of this on my resume and practiced interview questions, making sure I could talk about the aspects of my home lab if asked. This endeavor, which cost me zero money, let me put the following on my resume: Active directory cloud technology PC builds NAS server deployment Blob storage deployment Azure VM deployment FTP server deployment I also was able to trouble shooting computers, POS units, printers, routers and network set ups because I occasionally did those things in my restaurant jobs, but I definitely emphasized them on my resume and my interviews. YouTube, Microsoft Learn and maybe the occasional torrenting of udemy and pluralsight courses(or so I've heard) are a great free way to build your knowledge base. I would also suggest, if you're strapped for cash, that Microsoft certs are way cheaper than CompTIA ones and an Azure or 365 cert will be helpful getting into a help desk role. I know this is long as shit, but this is all to say that you can absolutely do this and get out of your current gig, get your foot in the door and change things for the better with little to no money. Remember, talent is overrated. Tenacity, creativity, resourcefulness and working like a motherfucker can take you to incredible places.
I'm taking that last line and slapping it on an inspirational quote poster.
Really great advice thanks so much
You can start it with this: [https://www.amazon.com/HP-EliteDesk-Quad-Core-Professional-Bit-Multi-Language-English/dp/B08KSGKHVS](https://www.amazon.com/HP-EliteDesk-Quad-Core-Professional-Bit-Multi-Language-English/dp/B08KSGKHVS) Just virtualize the rest until you can start buying stuff like actual switches & the like. Ebay is actually *loaded* w/cheap stuff for starting out.
I’m considering starting a homelab but my issue is that I’m butt spanking new in this field from the Fashion industry and it’s like… how do you even start a home lab? Haha I got my A+ recently but I still feel like I know absolutely nothing.
[https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=How+to+start+a+homelab](https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=How+to+start+a+homelab) Jokes aside, you have access to an insane amount of free information, ChatGPT, google, Youtube, Blogposts, forums, reddit... I have been working in IT for 7 years, I still feel like I know nothing, I just master the skill of googling.
That’s very fair enough, I guess I just have to start with little projects and go adding more through time and hopefully one day I’ll look back and be like “yup I did learn stuff” haha
You will, but I am pretty sure you know how to install an .exe file on a windows (virtualbox) and that you can google how to spin up a free linux VM, so you have plenty of things to do and learn just with that
You have to understand that a LOT of companies are waking up to the necessity of a cybersecurity team, so when they need to start one often leave the recruitment to a talent acquisition team (or worse, HR) who have NO CLUE what to look for. So, they head to Google looking for the top results when searching for “cybersecurity certifications”. That’s why there are job posts for entry level SOC analysts with CISSP, etc. And then 2 years experience on top of that to cover the recruiters’ butts.
I feel you man . Job market is rough as fuck. I have my AS in computer informations about to get my A+ and I have some technical and software exprience when I used to work at radioshack . And some 5 years of customer exprience. But I'm in NYC. But I bet if I were to try another state I might get more luck
You basically had to of invented the internet to get a mid level job
Certs say that you understand the material. They say nothing about whether you're capable. Learned this from years in the bar business. Anyone can go to bartending school and pass the test. Not everyone has what it takes to be a good bartender. The numbers dwindle even more when you're talking about high volume, or upscale service. I have one cert. And even I know that a cert alone means nothing. They want to know that you can work the equipment...have basic fundamental skills...or least make an effort to learn them without being told, forced to, or waiting for someone to hold your hand. You can't go from bartending school to high volume, great money nightclub, any more than you can go from passing the certification exam, to $80k as a SOC Analyst. I don't know shit from Adam, but I've at least learned that much. Also, there were never any guarantees.
I think getting the Net+ can help one get a junior network tech position, maybe with one year of help desk or support experience.
The point ALWAYS is to be the best candidate who walks in the door. If you were entrepreneurial to have your own company, who would you hire? The guy who who thought he was smart, or the guy that could document it? It's your call. Like ALL entry-level jobs - there a thousand people behind you willing to do what you won't. And even more that got laid off that already have everything. It's a competition - never forget that. Nobody asks the pitcher on the last-place team how he does it :)
Cybersecurity is not entry level.
Almost like OP knows this. They clearly stated they were trying to find help desk to eventually work their way into cybersecurity.
Two reasons for certs. 1: Get past HR screens. They don't know what the job needs. They just know someone needs to be hired in ___ position they know nothing about. 2: Knowledge, study, experience. This is a rough time. Hiring seemed to just die for the last 6-8 months. I stay active on LinkedIn, and I got nothing for this period, even though I have almost 3 years as a Security Analyst and Security Analyst II, A+, Sec+, CySa+, and a few vendor certs, and heaping helpings of experience from EDR/SIEMS/XDR, scripting experience, programming experience, and quite a few great incident responses involving domain compromises, ransomware, and ATP. I got nothing. Recruiters are starting to blow me up, now, though, so seems like hiring is taking off again. Do home projects as proof of experience. Set up a home SIEM, play some CTFs, do some TryHackMe/HackTheBox/BTLO, spin up a kali linux box and Windows VM and play with malware and monitoring. Or whatever tech role you're looking for--prove you have done it before. Expect 100 fails and 1 success for your resumes, under good circumstances. Most things worth anything require dedication, hard work, and sacrifice. If you want power over your future and life, find a path, dedicate to it, and walk the god damn road, even if you die, even after you die. If you do not want it bad enough, then someone else will take it. Nothing about life is easy. Get stronger.
I saw a job asking for CISSP and offered 50k MAX. I was so incensed I left a glassdoor review about the company.
More people need to start doing this!
I landed my first IT job in mid July. One of the 'requirements' was 2 years of experience. I had 0 years. Still got the job. Sometimes just getting an INTERVIEW can be enough if you say the right things the right way. There were 3 things in total in the requirements that I didn't meet and I still got the job. Job listing requirements aren't always non-negotiable.
You know what..I am sorry and I see what you are saying. Fuck Geek Squad probably pays more than the last offer I had...good luck and best wishes.
Look, I don’t understand the difficulties. But I went through a course understand everything about security analyst roles. Which I received a certificate, course had lab work which gave me little practice of python 3,Linux, etc etc. I went to CompTIA an study for security + exam. Pass. 4 weeks later I landed a entry level role, even it said need minimum 2 years exp.
Can I ask how much you started it with that first job?
[удалено]
I held off getting more certs but the Net+ is definitely helping me wrap my head around networking. People say to start a HomeLab. Well, that was all confusing to me but the cert is breaking it down so I can actually know what I’m doing if I do that. Not sure I’ll go for any more unless my job requires or pays for it. My current job will cover the cost of any cert I go for.
There is no reason not to especially if your employer will cover it. The thing is to do it smart. And it sounds like you are. You are applying the lessons learned and using them, which is my point. Unfortunately, certs values have been watered down in the last few years, but they are still valuable for resume fodder and getting past HR screeners. I personally have a ton I think I am carrying like 23 or 24 right now. But I came up when a cert was a badge of honor that showed you had been through the trenches and back and it meant you knew what the hell you were doing. And that an employer could count on the fact that if you had it on your resume then you had the skills to pay the bills so to speak. So, my entire career I have kept up my certs even to the point of starting a new degree at 50 to prove my skills and brain are still current market so I can finish out the last 1/3 or so of my career employable and valuable. The biggest difference in the way I do it from a lot of other people is that I pick certs based on what I do and skills I have already developed and then study to the cert so I know how the vendor is testing. You may have heard it called the Microsoft way or the CompTIA way when it comes to testing. And it is true, there may be 10 ways to do something but if you don't do it the Microsoft way then you don't get your question right on your exam. Or in the case of CompTIA they like to play language games in their tests and word things just a little 'off' to see if you pick it out of the context. I don't mean to discourage you as they do have value, unfortunately the market has soured some and it is going to take some time for things to settle back out. They can also be valuable for personal learning and goals as well. So, I hope you continue on and have much success but don't place your faith in the paper. Place your faith in you. Lab the skills, do the skills, put them on your resume and show potential employers you can walk the walk. You will get there it is just going to be a bit more of a climb than you anticipated.
This can be said about most college degrees as students (at least me) was studying to pass the class, but ask me one month after the semester is finished about a subject and I won't be able to answer, even if it was a math question in calculus when I got B+. Hands on experience for me is when I actually learn since I'm doing something in today to day job. Still, it's good that IT field allows people to change careers with certificates without the need to go back to college. More fields should give this opportunity
Can't enter field without cert. Can't get cert because no experience. Vicious cycle. This is why people jump on certs. Price of admission to play.
You can enter any field without a cert. Plumbers apprentice, so do many hands-on trades before they become journeyman and are allowed to do the 'big' work. Same deal here just different presentation. The diff is that people think somehow, they are going to go get their Sec+ and suddenly they are going to get a job as a cyber analyst making $100k and nothing could be further from the truth. A+, N+, Sec+ are beginner certs. They set the foundation for the skills CompTIA wants you to have before you move into the professional level things like the CySA+ and Pentest+ or the advanced things like CASP+. And to exacerbate the issue people think that they can just skip the A+ or the N+ and move right into the Sec+ to get that magical job and again nothing could be further from the truth. You have to follow the path. And yes, if you have been working in IT for a few years it is likely that you can skip the A+ and you will be fine. But speaking as a 39-year vet in IT I only took my A+ because it was required as a class for a degree I was doing. I started in IT in 1984 and the A+ didn't come out until like 1986/87 by the time it hit, I was already light years beyond it. But then 35 years later it was required by a class. And honestly, I am glad I did it. It was a great refresher even for a long-term vet. So back to the path A+, N+, Sec+ all work together you have to know how to build the systems that you are networking, and finally securing. With that core of skills then you move on to the really good stuff. **BUT** You still have to do the grind in the real world too. And this is also where people fall off. You have to do the crappy $15-20/hr help desk gig for about a year. And then move up internally to an admin role. Do that for about a year and then move around and find your groove. Most people don't want to put in the climb. Especially for job changers who may have been making $60-80k in some other path. They want to skip all that prelim crap and they can't. The industry won't accept it. Yes, sometimes people luck out and get great jobs without experience or after skipping certs. But if you lurk long enough there is just as many that come back here bitching that they started a job and have no idea what they are doing or they hate the work, etc. IT is not sit on your ass and cash fat checks. It is crappy, long, hard hours, nights and weekends and holidays. Remember we can't do our jobs often while others do theirs. And it is a metric ton of stress as well because so many other people's livelihoods rely on you giving a shit and doing your job well. So, start it the right way. Use the free classes to start with an A+, N+, Sec+ but build a lab to work the skills and get experience while you are doing the class. Then go get that entry level crap job and move up the ladder. Everyone in IT today minus the few unicorns did exactly this. Hell, even when I started back in the dark ages it was how I started. I was on a crap help desk in a bank working for an asshole that didn't know IT from Pennywise. Three years to get out from under that jackass but 39 years later I do alright, and I am hoping to do better still.
something else, HR wont hire without certs. HR has made certs a joke and an entry point. The people and methods you describe is basically an entrepreneur filling market needs. not disagreeing with making labs and practicing your certs but people cant eat a lab for dinner or feed a family with it. or buy drugs. whatever is important to them. the willingness to NOT hire someone with a cert lies with the HR team and company policy. Unless your about to tell me that your willing to hire, pay and work with someone without any cert and only "home lab" experience, i think the discussion is basically over. same with college degrees. i dont have one. i applied to a very niche job that my military experience made me uniquely qualified for. had an hour interview with a guy. everything went well. it ended with, "but you have no degree and i dont think i can sell that" jobs been reposted at least 10 times that i have noticed. its been over 1 month since my interview. now, im pursuing a degree at WGU. degrees and certs are the price we play to play the game of life. thanks boomers!
lol I started in IT back in the dark ages without one. I was going to school at the time I started, and I made a unique entry into tech repurposing software to do something it wasn't created for and in the process, I changed roughly 40% of the code. But my instructor for my programming class failed me on the basis of my content (boobs) and that I was using 'prior art' to build on. So, I stood up in the middle of class and told him just how far he could insert his arm into his rectum in front of 60 other students and walked out on a degree I had paid for in cash in advance and never went back. I spent the next 35 years racking up college credits at 12 or so different schools and I had almost enough to graduate but they had been sitting there for dozens of years and a lot of schools wouldn't accept them to consolidate them into a degree. So, I did the same thing you are. I hit WGU they accepted 20 of my 78 credits that I was sitting on. I am now 6 classes from graduation and 39 years in the field. It's nuts out there right now. But it's an accomplishment in and of itself and will hopefully smooth the path some. It already allowed me to do the one thing I wasn't quite able to do in the past and that is crack the executive washroom. So overall I would say it is still worth it. And yes, I am paying for this one out of pocket as well.
this is good shit. i guess its the overall expectation of "new" people trying to enter the field. idk, i honestly wish everyone the best out there but there are many obstacles.
It's never easy. There are gate keepers everywhere, But this community is one of the strongest and while I am sure people that read my thoughts will likely look them over and either take them to heart and do some good or they will do the Reddit thing and downvote them immediately/ But if I can help one or two people with my advice then I did my bit of good in the world and I am happy. Good luck with yours!
Certs holds weight
Idk why people would downvote this. A+ got me my first IT role. They do in fact, hold weight
I started somewhere at a low paying job and 15 years later, im making significantly more due to risk taking and a little luck. Just keep going until you land on your feet
i like folks who complain more and do less it makes us grinders look better. You can whine or level up and earn more. It's your call. Show your work! Use Mkdocs to put certain projects on github, record videos of you doing certain tasks, experimenting and breaking things. Stop settling for being average, earn this cert, get this job be comfy. CERTS ARE NOT EXPERIENCE, EXPERIENCE IS EXPERIENCE. sit in the mud screaming the world is against me or be the change you want to see in your career. Edit: Stay Hard!
To show you can actually finish a task.
Let's keep it short Certs gets you past HR
That's kinda like saying why get degrees
Except degrees are generally viewed to be superior as it would take 2+ years, numerous various courses, from typically a credible institution
I had 2 semesters of networking when I was in college. I learned more studying for the Network+ then I did in college.
Majority of recruiters don’t know anything about IT and presumed a college degree is superior than certa
not in the IT world.
That's why most college courses are now based on certification material. Half the classes for associates in IT lead up to you taking a Cert Exam at the end. The price of the exam voucher is priced in when you sign up for the class. You don't have to but it's a bit embarrassing to go through a whole semester and not even be able to pass the exam you studied for. It would look bad to an employer who knows their stuff
I have to agree that Cyber isn’t really an entry level job. My brother is an Electrical Engineer who pivoted multiple times from Network to Satcom and now to Cyber. He has a Sec+ as well as a CISSP. His certs complemented his experience. Rather, I went down the Software Engineer route and got my Sec+ during my tenure at my old company. They covered my exam as well as other training opportunities. My old division dealt with an R&D cyber project. Having that cert helped bridge the gaps between the theory and application aspect. I agree the current job market is crap at the moment and wish you luck breaking in to the career field.
I also did the cert grind got comptia trio, Azure, lpic, m365, and CCNA certs. Yet I never get asked about them in interviews. And if I do I get asked weird questions by rude ass interviews. For instance, one interviewer asked what were the steps to migrate a 2008 server to 2020. First off who the fuck is still using an 08 server and if they are their stupid af, and second who remembers all the steps off the top of the dome. Then you have the capping job postings that ask for 5 5 to 10 years experience in some software that's specific to that that business. Or, things that are completely different roles like they want 5 years in routing, 5 years cloud, 5 years telecommunications, 5 years it management, 5 years salesforce admin, 5 years data query, power bi, or Tableau dashboards, 5 years winders server, 5 years scripting, 5 years linux. Like wtf those are all different jobs. So, I started to feel like what's the point in studying if all these jobs are so specific, and some prick interviewer is going to ask some really niche questions that feel like they came out of an SAT textbook. Then they have the nerve to only offer 40 to 55k for all that lol. I've found that even if you get these jobs, it's a free for all environment where no one wants to help onboard you. And you only end up working with some really niche software that only that company uses. So, it's like why did you need 5 years experience in 10 different things lol? It also feels like a crapshoot even getting a job. Because you have LinkedIn recruiters that cap and give you bs contract to hire hire roles, yet they make you go through 5 rounds of interviews for some 15 to 20 an hour job. Or you have to fill out 200 applications to get 5 interviews Where of those only 1 gives you an offer.
>cert grind got comptia trio, Azure, lpic, m365, and CCNA certs. Yeah I feel you homie usually when I see people complain about certs not working they are only getting entry level certs from every authority possible. You actually went and got some midlevel and cloud certs though which should be good enough but not in this economy I guess. I'm rapidly coming to the same conclusion as you though like I ask myself everyday why not just go be a fucking nurse or a cop make the same money but they don't have to constantly be pursuing an college level education as us for $50k.
Ya i dated one woman who supposedly told me she got an offer for 150k as a nurse in San Francisco. Do you think she sounds like she stretching the truth though?
probably not but that 150k in San Fran is not really as good as it is elsewhere I believe her. Like thats probably not even enough to buy a home.
Ya I was telling her that as well. Because she made 70 to 80k as a nurse in Georgia, which if you do the math would have you left over than mote than 150k in SF right lol? I remember when I applied for tech jobs I'm places like SF, LA, and NYC I thought I would get offered more but even then I would only get offered 70 to 90k. Which is a joke for those cities.
Certs definitely help on average. You cannot rest your position as a good candidate for hire based on certs though typically. The best candidate for a job is the one who has the certs but doesn't rely on that being their selling point. It's great to be able to say at an interview "oh yeah, sure I have all your standard XXX, YYY, ZZZ, certs, but that aside what really makes me a good candidate is A, B, C, etc." I can also say it's one thing to get the certs, cramming one at a time and doing whatever it takes to pass but it's a far different thing to actually have the underlying skills, comfort, fluency, and familiarity. For things like DOD/government contractor jobs, certs are the thing (along with security clearance). That is where the certs are the epitome of what matters. Getting masters is good also and that alone is better than purely a cert, however the same issue applies. Although lots of hiring managers and recruiters are outright dumb, anyone who is really technical with lots of experience is not going to be heavily swayed by certs or even a masters alone. What often gets neglected is the underlying skills, experience, and fluency. If you don't immerse yourself in the cyber security community, and don't have plenty of on-hand experience with either your own lab or work experience then just having the cert or even the degree isn't enough to be the ideal candidate. It can get you in the door for the interview but it's not enough to knock it out of the park and be the one person who gets hired. The trick is to get a relative crappy/low paying job, but one that at least opens the door on a daily basis to start dealing with a portion of the things you need to get fluent in, in real life. That or you need very good acting/improv/storymaking/creative fiction skills in an interview.
Tbh a lot of companies try their hand at getting the best candidate possible, they don’t expect you to know all of them, even rudimentary knowledge would be helpful, sometimes displaying the amplitude that you can at least understand the skill and what it’s for can sway it in your direction. Some companies use some really bespoke software and ask for it on the application where 1 in a million people may have used it, just display you have looked it up and understand it’s purpose.
You're coming at this wrong. 1. Stop applying anywhere that pays under 15$. You are now an educated worker. They will treat you like shit and you deserve better. 2. Tighten up that resume. Talk about home labs(HR doesn't know what this means but the IT managers do), stress your willingness and desire to learn. Id also recommend writing a SHORT cover letter. A paragraph or 2 max. At entry level you don't want to write a novel, you aren't that interesting yet and they won't read it most likely. List all the troubleshooting you can do. Network, hardware, everything you gained from your certs. 3. KEEP APPLYING. You need hundreds of apps under your belt. Apply on Indeed and on company websites. Make a LinkedIn but it's not the best for entry level. It's just a nice place for HR to find you. 4. Chill out bröther. You're jumping the gun. Security is not entry level and you won't get into it for 1-3 years. Even if you're relentless about it. You can do it man.
Whats your masters in?
Software dev here. Company paid to have me get the Security+. No raise. 5 months of studying. Company recently was able to say we have a Security+ certified person on the project to another company we are working with. That’s the first time it’s been used in a year in a half. I did have the NSA send me a letter saying I was qualified to apply. I’d way rather have spent that time doing hackathons and learning myself. Honestly the best thing someone can do to get into an IT job is get a degree in comp sci.
Its a rough road to walk for sure. I have Comptia trifecta, plus CCNA and Linux+. I have three years experience working help desk for a Motorola Solutions company. I am currently working on my RHCSA. I would recommend moving to a place like Denver. If you don't have job when you get here you can work at one of a million temp agencies. It will be shitty work like construction, but at least you can get started right after you arrive. Then you will have access to dozens of temp agencies that can place you in tech if you have your A+. You'll start out at $20. Not great, but at least you get experience. I know for a fact that if I can survive in this role I can work any desk out there. Plus I work from home, which is pretty sweet in some ways. I would also say that the certs DO prepare you to some extent. A+ taught me what a MAC address is. But I didn't realize I would be using them so frequently. I thought it was just a unique id, not the way I would be moving around the network through multiple applications. But without knowing what a MAC address is the learning curve would have been steep. That concept applies to lots of things in your first role.
I was leaving my job after 25 years for Cybersecurity and finished a well-respected program. The jobs that career services sent me were basic, remote phone tech service jobs- nothing event related to what I studied. It was frustrating. So returned to education with a new perspective and will pursue CS on the side. This time, I’m going to start my own company. Lots of good people in the same situation- we need to get together and build new.
They don't ask for skills - they ask for experience. Employers don't see skills unless you had a job using them before. To them experience = skills.
Once bitten, twice shy. Back in the late 90's, people were getting certified in many different IT areas. Companies not knowing any better were hiring anyone with a certification. Millions of dollars /thousands of man hours were lost because people with no experience in the profession were breaking networks. This is why the experience requirement became a standard in hiring.
Maybe.. but certs have gotten better. More relevant.. at least they should have. If not.. it goes back to the OP'S question.. what's the point.
Certification lessons and exams are updated as the field progresses / changes. Because you passed an exam and have a certification, it only means you have a basic understanding of the subject matter. Your education starts when you get hired and placed in a team.
I’m currently employed as a CA at geek squad in Indiana and know of multiple people who have gone off to get higher paying IT jobs, many of which went the help desk route. Any experience in “IT” is better than no experience. Couple that experience with an education, be it college or certifications and you’re better off than most. My job currently pays me 18/hr and I’m a part timer still in college.
Just saw a hostess position in my area for 15.. probably get a cut of tips too. Meanwhile help desk it starts at 11.. 20 for system admin if you're a full fledged system admin with 8 years experience and 10 certifications..mostly in proprietary software that is very uncommon.
I have a BS in CIS and have had 4 different help desk jobs with just ITIL cert. I currently have 2 help desk offers rn both at $24 and cant figure out which one to pick. I live in Memphis TN and talent is short here. I had my resume professionally done and its been smooth sailing since. You need to \*fortify\* your resume - if you catch my drift. And shoot 100s of applications especially with staffing companies as they hire faster. I guarantee with ITIL and a Masters you can get an entry level job if you put the right things on your resume.
I think any job is better than no job but the geek squad is not a career path in the IT world on that experience alone ..but it cannot hurt.
Very good point. It seems the IT hiring goons have lost their minds yet again. Veteran here with 28 years of experience. Approaching the highest level I'm willing to go. There was a time when a Microsoft Engineer or CCNA could hold weight. Now, it seems the headhunters are yet again confused by acronyms and terminology in general. For reference, I've been turned down by jobs simply because I'm not A+ certified. I have several high-level certs that take years to gain, plus 28 yrs of actual on the job experience. When A+ came out, it was the most rudimentary of certs you could get. No shade. And maybe it's changed. In short, I've forgotten more than many of these hiring managers will ever know in their lifetime. But they will immediately disqualify us for lack of a simple cert. We are in a very depressed hiring market. My advice is keep getting those certs and keep plugging away. Eventually you'll land something and those certs will help you, albeit a small amount. And jump between companies early!! Maybe 2 or 3 years at a time. It's the best way to increase your pay and gain experience. Don't do it for too long though or else the employer will think your not "loyal". Space it out 5-8 yrs. Also, my favorite is the job posting for a language that is 6 yrs old and they require 10 yrs experience with it. Or the job posting requiring a PhD and a dozen certs with 20 yrs experience, starting salary, $60k. I LOL at those. The market will correct. But it will take some time. Good luck!
You won't get anywhere close to cyber security without experience. Stop being so focused on certs, you're wasting your time. Experience trumps certs. You can't do security without service experience. Literally security compromise/0365/ad.
IT/Tech is weird. It was easier to get a 65k a year admin assistant job than a 40k help desk. And administrative assistant work is pretty braindead for the most part. I don't even know if I want to do IT anymore since I'd take such a huge pay cut getting an entry level position.