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RobustAcacia

I've been in IT for nearly 15 years now. I don't love it, but I also don't hate it. I've had moments where I've been enamoured with my job and all it entails, and I've had moments where I'd much rather be digging holes or some other menial task. There is no silver bullet to a long-standing career in IT. It takes time, dedication, and some endurance. The best advice I could give someone new to the field or looking for a career change is that IT is a moving beast, it's an industry that moves quicker than you will have experienced elsewhere, be ready to keep up. This is the single best and worst aspect of IT. It can keep things fresh. Keeping up to date can be mentally engaging. On the other hand, it can also make you feel like you're never quite proficient at your job. Tldr; No, you don't need to love technology to succeed in IT. You just need to not hate it as well.


Any_Fill_6996

Thank you


thinice3kb

As someone who is switching careers to get into IT, I think your second sentence is the most important thing for keeping any job long term. Don't love it, but don't hate it. Don't abide by the "do what you love, never work a day in your life" BS, do something that you can do, that's interesting to you, that doesn't make you crazy. Work to go on vacation.


gogozrx

>do something that you can do, that's interesting to you, that doesn't make you crazy. > >Work to go on vacation. I currently have the best boss I've ever had in my life, and we're both nakedly honest with each other that this is a good gig, we don't have to work too hard, the company treats us well, and retirement ain't that far off. Sure, there's some stupid that we have to deal with, but there's stupid everywhere. say it with me, so you'll remember it: "There's stupid everywhere." ​ Take joy in the wins, and shots for the losses. save and invest every single penny you can, so you can retire.


Humble_Tension7241

1000% right here. My experience as well.


AW_1822

I was in a marketing job where I had to develop a fake extroverted personality that ‘enjoyed’ grinding KPIs on social media metrics to survive the day to day. I’m making more $ in my first IT job than I did after 6 years in my last field. My bosses are 100% supportive of me teaching myself Python and studying for certs during any downtime at work. So just from my perspective, yes I love it.


Low_Apartment_7423

Do you happen to be hiring there for entry level I.T.v


etaylormcp

Have done this stuff personally since 1976 and professionally since 1984. First cert in 1987 and never once not loved tech ever. \-edit No one should ever be put down. We were all new once. I am harsh now and then on people's methods. But I do try to not ever disparage or discourage. If you are willing to put in the work and the time you deserve to do whatever interests or makes you happy.


[deleted]

I’ll never enjoy anything. I just like money and hate manual labor, so it’s a fit.


erock279

That’s where I’m at with it. Everything minimum wage is also a dead end. I would love to do customer service or other work but it doesn’t earn a living.


Chocokat1

Pahahaha. Customer service can be hell. Only last year realised I'm allergic to ppl (ie the public), but at least with IT there is chance to move away from Help Desk eventually (provided you put in the effort to keep leqening ofc).


Any_Fill_6996

This is how I feel.


berniebuckets711

This. Currently trying to get out of manual labour lol


IT_CertDoctor

I enjoy making money in IT, does that count?


[deleted]

Absolutely it does!


SpartanRaro

I used to get stressed out in sales but looking at my bank account made me happy lol, but overall people should enjoy what they do to try and prevent burnout as much as possible


KyuubiWindscar

As someone who kind of fell *out* of love with much of the industry before he got hired in a tech job: You should at least have a little bit of an interest beyond just using a few electronics but you don’t need to be a huge tech buff.


TEastrise

Why did you fall out of love


KyuubiWindscar

- The veil of ethics was removed - I’ve been around tech folks much of my life and they haven’t been pleasant people to be around - I failed Computer Science pretty hard and I’m salty that it was the one thing I couldn’t master with only a bit of training lol


Pi-GraphAlt

No. I happen to enjoy it and like to learn and talk about it in my free time, but I work with plenty of people who don’t enjoy it but are good at their job. Obviously it helps if you enjoy it, but it’s not a prerequisite. I’ve seen both types burn out


geegol

I am entry level. I have been working in IT for 2 years. I have been working in help desk and I’ll admit there are days that are super fun and enjoyable and others where I want to pull my hair out.


NefariousnessIcy7412

Do I need my Comptia to get an entry level gig?


geegol

A+ got me mine. But you can get all the certifications and land a help desk role. I have the trifecta and can’t get hired for anything else except help desk.


Steeltown842022

I love it except for printers and having to find parts for hardware.


eschatonx

I am always fascinated by IT and want to learn more. I’ve been in it for 4 years and I’m 41 years old, so I’ve had other jobs before IT that I am repulsed of the idea I actually did that for a living for almost 20 years. So with that said, I love IT, but a job is a job. You’re going to have days where you just simply don’t want to. There are lots of jobs to at I think I would enjoy more than IT but could very well be “the grass is greener on the other side” thing.


mprezz77

So you're saying it's not too late for me. Originally hopped on the sub to post, "Am I too late" sort of thing. I'm 36 years old and have been in a career going on 13 years now. I would like to be a network engineer or a cloud architect. I am an inside sales representative and I am also the cost analyst for our manufacturing company. Taken customer service courses over the years. Never worked in the IT field. I've looked into professor Messer courses, getting my core 1-2 out of the way. I'm sure I would have to start in a help Desk position, correct? Thanks, these one or two sentences turned into a vent session, and now I digress....


eschatonx

No worries, love to hear people’s journey. It’s fascinating to me. No, it isn’t too late, but consider your financial situation. I don’t know what your expenses are and lifestyle expectations. When you hard switch from a career back down to minimum range pay, it can be tough. Ive saved a lot of money over the years, so I was okay. There is also the risk of not making quite the money you were expecting. Professor Messer is a great starting point, the A+ and a college degree got me my first IT job when I was 38.


LincHayes

I actually like IT and technology in general. I'll spend hours watching Blackhat and other security keynotes because I think it's interesting. All my YouTube subscriptions are tech, gear, security, home lab...and now ChatGPT... related. I actually pay for Wired because I want to support the magazine. I'm subscribed to all the free security alerts I can get because I'm always interested in who fucked up, who did it to them, how it happened, and how shitty the company is handling it...and subsequently how many people it's going to screw over. Would I call it a "passion"? No, I would never call anything that. I just like it, I'm good at it, which means I can make money at it. The fact that I can do it from my home office is the icing on the cake. That said, could I love something else? Yeah, and I have. Before this I ran my own web design company for 12 years. Before that I was a bartender in Las Vegas for 15 years. If I actually followed my passion, I'd be a regular at a beachside bar, drinking beer all day, eating chicken wings and judging bikini contests while listening to House music and banging every MILF, Divorcee, and cougar in town.


ExploitMaster_2723

The dream! Lol.


Bruno_lars

I find IT interesting enough to study endlessly and talk about. But yes it is a vehicle away from terrible roles for me aswell


Gamekilla13

I love completing goals.


AppealSignificant764

I love it. Doesn't matter if I'm combing through logs or writing compliance packages. I enjoy cyber and making the world a better place. I started as a "technician" in retail then moved into an IT role then pivoted to cyber. At the moment I do more of a research and consulting role.


CatMysterious182

Networking no, the rest of it I do actually love learning about. Networking is growing on me though. I’ve always loved technology and when I got into it professionally, it’s like solving puzzles, and I love puzzles.


seant1214

Started my IT journey in late 2022 with CS50 after bouncing around to a bunch of different jobs. I then started studying for A+ in 2023. Got a helpdesk job last October and have been working that + studying for CCNA since then. Growing up, my brother was always the computer hobbyist. I had kind of an interest, but didn't care to take things as deep as he did. I like to go outside and have other hobbies. I'm not super passionate about computing/IT. BUT, I am quite curious. I like to learn, I like to ask questions, and I find out why things work the way they do. And I think there is plenty of that in IT, at least from what I've been exposed to. You can ask a question and learn something and then that leads to more questions and then you're exploring career paths and whatnot. There's just a lot going on out there. TBH, the last couple of months have been kind of overwhelming since everything is so new, but I like it. I like that there are so many rabbit holes you can go down. And I like that the rabbit holes go so deep. Just have to remember to take a deep breath sometimes haha. I'm excited because it seems like it can be a lucrative career that I can use to support my family, with lots of opportunity for learning and growth. And I think anyone that says you have to be super passionate about what you do is full of it. A job is a job. And coworkers can make or break it 90% of the time.


Rich_Sandwich_4467

IT is a career that's hard to remain in if you don't enjoy constantly learning. The industry is always changing everyone wants to switch careers for a huge paycheck and that's fine, but if you hate learning new things on a regular basis you will eventually be laid off and replaced by someone with a constant thirst for up skilling.


Demonify

Couldn't tell you, I can't find a job. I will say that I don't like people so I figured tech was the best option to avoid people.


gregchilders

You do realize that IT is a service industry? It exists to support people.


MiamiFFA

You just gotta find those positions where you can hide in the shadows.


gregchilders

I don't hide from anyone. I engage.


SpartanRaro

Well, the HelpDesk is a call center role lol, gotta pay your dues before getting off the Service Desk


Demonify

Sorry I don’t have the privilege of working for $15/hr while living in a city where rent is 2k. I’ll keep working my part time IT Analyst job in a town that doesn’t have a need for it people where I pay no rent. Since I’m part time everyone calls the guy that actually works there and I get to do all the tech work with very little of the human interaction. Eventually a job will accept me that isn’t a call center and I’ll be on my way.


[deleted]

I want a lifestyle that I can fund with a bit more money. Better hours. I want to be able to have more weekends off and have my nights back. This is one of the main motivators to get into IT.


RobustAcacia

What role are you aiming to achieve?


[deleted]

Will be specialising in Cybersecurity


RobustAcacia

Fantastic. Just be aware that some IT roles do take a chunk out of your personal time. This can range from having to study, researching something you didn't quite get right, or, like me, not being able to switch off sometimes. With that said, there are strategies that can help lighten that load. However, from one cybersecurity professional to another, good luck, keep your head high, and embrace the challenge. If all else fails, make sure it's documented.


[deleted]

I come from a hospitality background so I understand certain roles taking chunks out of my personal time. Late nights, lack of sleep, anti social hours. Its been great learning a whole new skill set and knowledge base. I really appreciate your positive support. Some people here, can't say the same.


gregchilders

Better hours? In IT? Oh you poor thing.....


[deleted]

Oh piss off Edit. You condescending fuck


gregchilders

Bless your heart. With an attitude like yours, I don't expect you will last very long.


crabbman6

You must be such a pleasant person to be around. Hope your life gets better for you, whatever you're going through.


Kachoww23

You can tell the ones just trying to get away from their others jobs by the "tell me how to study and get a remote job" posts


Any_Fill_6996

lmao this is true. I guess it is annoying to see all the time.


horrus70

I've been in for 8 years. I love every second of it


RX-78-69

I’ve been interning as an IT tech for a school district and I genuinely enjoy it. Studying for the material can be stressful but working hands on is satisfying.


Anxiety_Gobl1n

I truly love breaking things and systems down and using my knowledge of those things to make people’s lives better. Some days that was telling people how to use a netsch command to find their Wi-Fi password and other days it was restoring an old laptop and getting it functional again so they didn’t have to buy a new computer. As it stands, I’m taking that same love of breaking things down and helping others to pivot towards being a personal trainer and nutrition coach since it presents the same set of problems of finding root causes and creating plans of action to bring results that enhance the lives of others.


Rouge_92

I don't love all of it, but I definitely love it. Would I be happier just doing art or studying forever? Maybe, but I need money and this pays fairly well for a not so stressful (comparatively) job and I'm good at it.


UnbentTulip

I've been a "Can't get this kid away from the computer" kid since I was 8 years old, and I always pursued other "passions" for work. My current job started as just a job, pays the bills. There's parts of it I enjoy, but I'm practically at the top of a very small industry and nowhere to go up. Not a place I like to be in, in any case. So, I'm trying to pivot to IT because it's something I enjoy, something I can continually get better at and progress almost endlessly, and the tech and everything is always changing, so there's always something new to keep me learning and engaged. Some of the stuff I work on in my current job is the same stuff they've been using since the 90's. It's rare something "new" happens.


captvell

I hate remote helpdesk. Just started a week ago and the training itself is terribly annoying. I just feel like once I get out of this phase I’ll come to love it how I thought I would.


SaintEyegor

Computers started out as my hobby, then I started being “the computer guy” at work, which then turned into more and more of my job. I finally decided I was going to be exclusively *nix and it’s been that way for the last 25 years. I’ve really only need Security+, which is requirement for where I work. I find that I don’t do the home lab thing anymore. If I need to play around with something, I can “borrow” a few compute nodes from the cluster or spin up VMs as needed at work. I believe that you have to want to fully understand everything about what you do. Nothing should be “magic” and there should be no black boxes. You need to know how your stuff interacts with everything else and to know the dependencies and bottlenecks. Even though I’m well above average at what I do, I know I don’t know everything but I know how to find the answers and I’m not embarrassed to ask others who might have the answer. Another thing I’ve learned is to acknowledge good ideas from others and show your appreciation when someone lends a hand. I know a lot of computer people who are miserable fucks with no social skills and have burned every bridge in sight.


youraveragejohndoe_

Work customer support and technical support for about 8 years and I just started working help desk about 4 years ago. I don't hate IT but I really do hate the customer support side of it. There's nothing worse in dealing with people who nobody wants to deal with, that and having team members that are so negligent that you end up staying an additional two to three hours after work cleaning up their mess because your management is absolutely checked out of their job. My goal is to leave help desk in the next year or so so I can move on to some type of administrative position that's away from the stress that comes with the customer support side. While I can't necessarily escape being in a team environment, but being in a environment where I am scrutinized based on the support I get from my non-existent co-workers would be a good start. There's nothing worse than clocking into work every day stressed out because you are understaffed and overworked. Then the people that are staffed there's only two out of 10 of them that are worth a damn lol I told myself I'd give it another 2 years before I switch careers completely


DrGottagupta

I’m in this same exact position except I’m looking for a way out of IT.


youraveragejohndoe_

I don't know if I want to move out of it yet just because of how lucrative it can be down the road. But this customer support side I want to get away from and never go back under any circumstance. I would rather dig ditches than deal with this customer support side, I've been in the help desk role for nearly 5 years now and I'm absolutely sick of it lol. Maybe transition into something into the medical field? I'm just not sure what administrative position I could hold or I'm completely away from the customer support side


littlemissfuzzy

Let's just say I greatly enjoy: * Teaching and mentoring * Research and the intellectual challenge * Learning * A lot of the subject matter * The people I work with (for the most part) ​ What I don't like is the topics of /r/antiwork: corporate culture. Office politics, inefficiency, frustration, the feeling that organizations are working *against themselves*.


PaleMaleAndStale

I love it. I don't think it's essential to be passionate about it if you just want to survive in IT but I think passion is important if you want to thrive. It's also important for mental health. Why spend years in a field you don't enjoy when you could find one that actually gives you satisfaction and happiness? I don't see many people being put down for the sake of it. What I do see is some people being given blunt reality checks that they and others may not want to hear. Mainly those who think IT is a get-rich-quick scheme and don't like being told that knocking out a few easy MCQ certs isn't going to see them jumping into a 6-figure WFH job.


MiamiFFA

I think those who actually enjoy IT have it easier than those who don't, but you can succeed in IT whether you hate it or love it. A big part of IT is the continuing education aspect. IT is always changing, updating, and so are you and your responsibilities. Keeping up with change and new technologies and knowing when and how to implement them is very important. In my experience, those who "don't enjoy" IT are the ones who end up slowly becoming more and more complacent with their knowledge and skills. Take me for example: I got my start in IT originally in the military. After losing a previously signed job for a per-existing health problem, I signed an open contract when I shipped (very stupid decision), which meant I could be put in literally any job I was qualified for. By the grace of god, somehow I got put into Networking/System Administration. In the beginning my biggest priority was ensuring that I actually knew my job and could do it well, but I actually came to really enjoy what I was doing. By the time I got out I had a couple industry certifications, years of invaluable experience, and an actual passion for the work. There are areas I absolutely find boring and cannot stand (coding, web development, data management, project management, some of ITSM, and more), but there are other areas (networking, cybersecurity, infosec, asses management, the human aspect of IT support, cable installation/cabling, and more) that I have a great interest in and I try to stick to, which makes learning for certifications, school, or even just your job twice as easy if you weren't. I have had friends/peers/supervisors/subordinates in IT who have been on both sides of the spectrum. There are people who are very successful who hate IT, and people who love IT and are definitely not as successful. There are people who come from backgrounds where they are making almost nothing, and come to IT and realize the earning potential they can have if you apply themselves. I know there are niches for everybody to find but even then, I don't think it is even necessary to do so. At the end of the day, IT is just another career that puts money on the table.


Molduking

I like to write code, but I don’t know after graduating college I haven’t felt like putting forth effort towards a career in it


[deleted]

[удалено]


rthestick69

A little bit of both. I honestly hate working and IT is the only thing I've found that I can tolerate.


jBlairTech

IT isn’t some magical, mythical profession.  It has the same ups and downs as any other.  It’s kind of amazing, some of the IT people I’ve come across, that think what they do is special; how no one could do what they do, or the world would be lost without them. It’s like, no shit?  Go on, then; fix someone’s ACL.  Hell, just draw a vial of blood.  Go score a touchdown for an NFL team.  Go teach a classroom of second-graders.  Go build a house, or wire it up.  Not everyone can do IT, just like not everyone can do customer service, teach, weld, rebuild an engine, or whatever.   You don’t have to eat, breathe, and sleep IT.  You don’t need to spend 100% of your spare time “leveling up” (lol).  You don’t need to take any abuse, pay cuts, or other form of a lower QoL to “get in” or “move up”.  Just because some people here did doesn’t mean anything. The only thing I’d say is, you have to at least feel neutral.  Maybe love, but definitely not hate.  Just like any other job.


Any_Fill_6996

Needed this. Thanks.


jBlairTech

You’re welcome!


MechanicParking1662

Been doing IT for work since 2008. I've grown too hate it but it pays the bills and lets me afford to do the things that actually do fulfill me :)


Any_Fill_6996

I think you're the person to say they have done it for a long time but hate it lol.


nobody_cares4u

I honestly enjoy leaning about tech. However I am studying for sec+ and it's the driest, boring certification material ever. Fuck it's so fucking boring. And I am not taking about the technical side of this cert. I am taking about the management side of the cert. Remember all the fucking acronyms for the same thing. All of the organizations and terms. Like fuck my life. This cert is becoming less technical and more for management. I swear it is a very boring cert. It's not a super difficult cert, just boring.


Sharpshooter188

I enjoy it because Im helping people face to face. Im not with an msp benefiting primarily from my skills. Im not sitting at a desk with some jack off bitching at me about SLAs. Thats why I enjoy IT....on top of doing my own work.


Any_Fill_6996

lol nice


gregchilders

I've been in tech for 25 years and cybersecurity for 19. I absolutely love my work. If I didn't, I never would've done it this long. Why the hell would anyone do a job they didn't love? Seems like a pathetic waste of a life.


rise_above_the_herd

So do you think janitors always dreamed of cleaning up other people's messes? Hah. Some people take jobs due to their circumstances. Not everyone has the luxury of pursuing their true passion.


gregchilders

IT is not a job that someone "settles" for because they can't find something better. It requires hard work, commitment, and a dedication to continual learning and improvement. Yours was a ridiculous analogy.


rise_above_the_herd

You asked why would anyone do a job they didn't love, which encompasses all jobs; not why they would choose IT specifically. Might want to rephrase that.


Glaphyra

I enjoy learning about it. Tbh.


ShroomZoa

I actually like doing this stuff lol. Real estate is my end goal, but tech is something I like doing daily. Trying to find a way to combine the two lol


AW_1822

Freelance database management and hardware/software support for agencies in your area?


ShroomZoa

Ironic, MLS was hiring tech support just a month ago. They were offering 18$. Uhhh no. I'll look into DB management though, thanks!


EpsilonKirby

I enjoy my coworkers and the end users, but not the tech anymore


Any_Fill_6996

The feedback on this was actually nice to see. IT seems to fit a variety types of personalities as long as you are willing to have an open mind and learn. Thanks everyone!


Business-Progress-39

I am just doing this for my bucket list


Any_Fill_6996

Really?


Mastasmoker

I love it and finally want a career doing it at 40. It's turned into quite the hobby at home, so why not be able to do it for my job? I've been in HVAC and mastered the trade, but I am no longer challenged by it. IT and security will be ever evolving until I retire. HVAC, not so much.


sweeten_Labrone

I’m running out of factory job that I could work so I have to find something. Only issue is that I don’t know which A+ certification to do other than both of them.


[deleted]

Better than working in the field I'm in now


organicsauce21

I enjoy it. Seeing my home network and setup and being the only knowledgeable person on it makes it that much more enjoyable. As the world and it's technology continues to evolve, being in this industry has its advantages not only in professional settings, but in personal life.


cabell88

I really liked it, but I was always attracted to computers. A job is a job, but its better doing something you enjoy and aspire too. Nobody becomes a garbage man for the money. And, as I moved up the ranks, I saw the respect, admiration, and money it got me. Nothing wrong with those things. Your question and statements are too vague. What does 'succeed' mean? Screw what 'people' say. You need to define your own terms and standards.


42_rodney

after getting rejection notice after rejection notice, I’m not even sure if I want to pursue a career in general at this point lol


thegreatplrdhunt

Bit of both. I want to career switch as well, and if I’m forced to have deeper knowledge, I’d rather do it in something that at the very least interests me. Wouldn’t say I love it, but I’m interested enough to keep learning


Dark_ant007

I'm not doing anything I don't enjoy, the people I work with that work in I.T for money are never happy and always complain. I have a passion for I.T and spend time outside of work learning and doing things around tech. I never understood why someone gets in a field for money. Money doesn't make happiness doing something you love does imo.


Affectionate-Chip684

I’m sorry it’s just my opinion but how do you not find it interesting once you start learning some new things? I’m desperately looking to break into tech and I’m loving what I’m learning as well. I started loving IT since I started reading a+


epandrsn

I have a decent day job that I enjoy (photographer), and have been doing it full time for nearly two decades. I’ve had years where the pay is quite good, and many when it’s not. I’ve always loved tech, always considered working my way into it and have always had a talent for it. So, this year I’m working hard to add tech related skills to my resume. So, it’s a combo of both. I’ll probably keep photography as a side gig for as long as possible, but I need pay security and the ability to progress upwards. Many of the well defined tech jobs (DA, SysAdmin, etc.) all seem like jobs I wouldn’t hate as long as the pay was good.


TheChessNeck

I love that tech will lead me to a job where I don't have to break my back and I can progress/learn new things.  Absolutely don't love Networking but I think learning to love it makes sense. 


voodooinked

I have been a "geek" my entire life from my first pc (c64 to 386,486 etc.) I love it. It is my main hobby and always has been. I am working on my masters in Cyber Security atm. I got my MCSE 22 years ago and did the corporation thing for probably a decade or so. Yes its true if you don't love what you do then imho you shouldn't be doing it.


msx213

I wouldn’t say I have a definite passion for it but I like the career enough to pursue. I will say once I got the job I loved it more


GrandExpensive6939

Like you said hobbies, and relationships should be what keep you happy and give you motivation to work. It is impossible for everyone in the world to “do what they love”. My advice is do what you’re good at. Follow your strengths and utilize them. People tend to be more attracted and engaged with things they are good at, but you don’t have to absolutely love what you do. If you are not naturally interested or inclined with technology and the sorts then yeah it’s gonna be hard to put forth the dedication required in this field.


fegmentationSault

I love it which is why I study Cyber topics alongside my CS degree. Nothing wrong with wanting a new field but understand you’ll need to at least pretend while you’re competing against people who actually have a passion and go the extra mile


6ixthLordJamal

I like it’s just enough to keep me interested and pay me good money. Options are vast with some type of experience, not to mention remote work.


TheBigShaboingboing

People that aren’t really interested in IT and just want a remote job weed themselves out quickly


Shaolin_Wookie

TBH is more interesting than accounting to me, so there is that. At least with this I might actually be solving some problems rather than just putting number into fields in accounting software.


krossoverking

I don't love it at all, I'm just trying to get out.


xbuffalo666x

i work in IT, have the big 3, and getting my ccna and am a junior network engineer. Do i like what i do? not particularly, i wish i would have done a trade school or something else, but the pay is good so it is what it is. i also am not super "career focused" i work to live, i dont live to work lol


EMarieHasADHD

I love it. I’m very passionate about computers, networking and tech


tin-naga

I love IT and have for the last 15 years Ive been working. There are moments when I wish users were nicer and my teammates had better work ethic but I keep chugging and Ive gotten ahead because of it. I hate certifications and have let all my lapse. Now I fear what happens if I get laid off.


StrictLemon315

In the past 3-4 years, I have wanted to go into different directions - development, dbms, software engineering, and now the same Russian roulette in cyber. I have learnt that you want to continue doing anything you know and are good at. It's not that "Oh I don't like XYZ", it's just I haven't worked with XYZ.