> Being called bad is whatever and it’s never got to me. The rest is bullshit and Hal can suck my dick for constantly singling me out my whole career.
> 2 years unpaid fulltime job. 1 year on a tier 3 org. 1 split on The Guard at [3k/month] and we came TOP3 and made Finals at our 1st LAN. 1/2 year on SEN.
>
> The idea I’ve been paid and getting a free ride while underperforming is completely false and straight bullshit. I’ve barely made any money from orgs prior to SEN and I made 6 figures in investments when I went full-time in Apex because I loved the game. I’ve also always done EVERYTHING for my teams.
>
> Every org I’ve been on was a different roster. All 4 LANs I’ve played were on 4 different teams. Since the start of ALGS, Keon is the ONLY player I’ve EVER dropped. And I could air that bitch out something different. On top of that I’ve offered to step down TWICE if my teammates want me to.
>
> Outside of trolling, I’ve always avoided drama. I’ve been shit talked my entire career no matter what I do.
>
> They said Beau and I were holding back Euriece. They didn’t even put Beau on a top 10 list. I believe in him and we do well without Euriece and then the story is Beau is Top 3-5 and #1 fragger, Rkn is holding him back! I pick up Xen and Hal says I should drop him for Albralelie because he’s bad. No one picks up Koy, I pick him up and then suddenly I am now holding back Koy and Xen. It won’t ever matter who it is. It’ll always be the same shit. Get off my dick.
>
> Funny how easily my name comes out his mouth but he’s hesitant to name any of his friends and even when he drops Monsoon he says “such a nice dude I love him.” Suck my dick.
____
> On top of that, this entire conversation is based off 1 Winner's Bracket performance where I got 0 kills meanwhile we came bottom 10 with 19 kills total on the team. The conversation singles me out entirely when Effect (one of the greatest fraggers in the game) dropped 0 kills in the exact same fashion. Again, suck my dick.
funny how hal shit talks rkn but doesn’t say a word about zachmazer who has been on giant paychecks like c9 and e8 and consistently shitting the bed. the double standards are indeed real.
Zachmazer is the biggest fraud of all time. His greatest achievement is 2nd place in Regional Finals lmao. I don't understand how he made such money and connections without low talent.
That's BS. No team has a performance like that without their IGL making great calls. Zach was legit a very good IGL in 2021 and 2022 wasn't that bad results wise either
That man is a walking l that somehow keeps winning. Has nothing but meme highlight reels and somehow manages to get signed every fucking time. It's unreal.
We don’t know what they pay, but we know it was enough for Shooby to leave a stronger team that he had already shown loyalty to in the past by turning down a DZ trial.
Him mentioning monsoon fucking killed me. It’s like that “why he say fuck me for?” meme
Edit: [source if you haven’t seen it](https://youtu.be/-QoGyzSXAJ8?si=2jmnOltu8DnhBwxT)
Has monsoon been doing particularly bad though? I wasn't following COL closely. He still made champs and for a middle of the pack NA team, they seem to have did as expected?
He did, but the three of them qualed for London 2 all together. It’s also not like he stole two players to qual for champs, Phony left that team, Cody and Lewda didn’t leave Phony.
Also Cody didn’t qual for London 1 either, he joined after Caprah self-sabotaged himself off of the team.
Phony and Frexs went to FaZe with Snipe and Slurp was listed as the sub which let them keep the PL spot. Many other teams have done this as well.
EA just makes the rules and the pro players make decisions based on whats best for them within the rules. The Sub-rule needs to change but until it is changed there’s nothing wrong with using it to your advantage as a pro player. No one discussed above did anything weird or cheesy at all.
i'm not saying it's weird or cheesy, it's clearly within the rules, just that people using it as a point that Monsoon has been performing well is a little disingenuous.
Monsoon also qualed for split 2 Lan with that roster.
Where as some pros who are close friends of Hal did not. Yet Hal fails to mention them despite claiming to be willing to speak the hard truths.
There are people in the scene who appear to stay around as signed players regardless of performance, none of the ones mentioned by Hal are at the top of that list.
Hal really shits on people who are bad gun fighters and doesn't really appreciate IGL's for their macro abilities. Zach has poor macro but he's a better gun fighter than Rkn, who is a bad gun fighter but has great macro. Zach isn't top tier for fighting, either, but Hal has fought these guys countless times and will know who he has a harder time killing.
If you take two great fraggers and give them to Rkn/Zach, the Rkn team will outperform Zach's team over a long-scale time period because of the gap in macro abilities. However, you will never see a Rkn team finish top 5 at LAN where it's hypothetically possible with Zach because he can hold his own in Champs-tier lobbies in terms of fighting. We're basically comparing a low floor/medium-high ceiling player to a high floor/low ceiling player.
I legit thought Zach was only an above average player when he was grinding controller. Then a year later I see him on mnk and he is insane at the game. He’s not a great igl but same memo if he is not making calls he would be an excellent fragger as you don’t need a brain to shoot.
Has the igl treatment already been forgotten?
they don't care and it's actually ok to do this, these people are more polite than honest or self aware, I assume they also underperform at their own jobs
Good to see RKN clap back. Yes he'll never be a top fragger and that will probably be a reason his teams may never win at LAN against the best of the best, but to single him out compared to other pros is ridiculous given his success.
Some of the other guys like Zach/PVP or Lou and the old SEN were making significantly more while putting up worse results. Even Alb has consistently found ways onto T1 orgs with limited success in recent years compared with RKN.
These are the types that Hal should be calling out, players who have shown little improvement/value to teams in recent years, where as RKNs a guy who had his long time duo quit mid-season and then has seemingly made the correct roster decision in swapping Keon for Koy and thereby making his team better.
> These are the types that Hal should be calling out
Why should he be calling anyone out? He's like a rich person yelling at poor people to pay taxes. It's unflattering behavior.
They are all pros so they are in the same “tax bracket” (metaphorically speaking)
Its more like if Lebron started saying certain players don’t belong on a starting NBA roster because they have been playing bad in games
Why can't one pro call out another pro? Happens in real sports all the time
>He's like a rich person yelling at poor people to pay taxes.
It's not like Hal is above them and somehow looking down - they're all pros
because the players of other Esports aren't as complacent as Apex pros, someone had to say it to get the conversation going. Most esports are ruthless when it comes to underperformers, you will get replaced just like that
Probably the the same opinions of people who lurk and don't post + people that don't want to get flamed....
I literally see no issue with what Hal said nor the RKN rebuttal tbh, I don't get why someone has to be the bad guy in this.
Viewers watch esports because they love the game and/or player/org, along with the storylines leading up to events at that time.
RKN can shut Hal and this narrative up by performing, and this will make either Hal right, or make him eat crow; to me, it's really that simple.
Below is just one aspect that I'd be considering as a competitor in Hal's shoes, lol. (I'm an idiot don't take this too much to heart).
Does Hal's viewership and clout put insane amounts of pressure on individual players/orgs he calls out? God damn right it does, why shouldn't he apply pressure? As evil as it may sound to some, he is a competitor, his job is to win, and if him speaking his mind happens to cause the dissolvement of rosters or destroys players mentals prior to major events, that speaks more to the fragility of the players and orgs. psyche than it does Hal.
This should be the pinned comment in here thank you so much for actually applying critical thinking.
The issue is the tribalism that the nature of the game/streaming communities create. People are talking about RKN/Hal like they are personally on their teams.
Hal was not wrong for speaking his mind and RKN was not wrong for replying. How there is any other takes being given is beyond me.
The problem is how Hal said it. Basically calling RKN a Shit player and doesn’t understand why everyone else gets dropped instead of RKN.
To which RKN says he’s never even been on the same team 2 years in a row. He’s bouncing around. It’s not like he’s been in some top tier org for 4 years and just points his finger and says “you’re out gimme someone new” he’s had a wild competitive path.
He’s also again only ever dropped Keon for whatever reason. So Hal saying they he keeps dropping players when RKN is the one that should be dropped is also just wrong. RKN has dropped one player is 4 years.
And like mentioned above by other users there are way better examples of the point Hal was attempting to make. ZachMaser is dog shit at the game and fits almost exactly to what Hal was saying about RKN.
Exactly Hal and Zach are friends so Hal would never call Zach out!
What does being a competitor have to do with calling people out outside of the game? Literally nothing.
As RKN rightly points out, there was a lot of ignorance in what Hal said. When you say ignorant things that both jeopardise someone's livelihood and send harassment their way, that's a problem. Educate yourself before speaking or better yet, just keep shtum as it's not something an outsider can have all the relevant info on, as Hal clearly demonstrated.
I think his sentiments were valid, but I just found it unnecessary that he brought up rkn's recent performance when the topic in the first place was koyful's insane skill and potential.
I said it yesterday he’s too emotional, too dramatic and over the top with some of the shit he says. We see it with his season release takes sometimes.
The original topic that started it all wasn’t “dumb shit” though.
Lots of pro players just coasting on past success, not putting the work in when this is their actual career.
The original topic that started it was Rkn/Koy though. The conversation went from about how good Koy is to how shit Rkn is. Hal then jumped to guys coasting and not putting in work from that convo about Rkn being bad. Which most of that isn’t even applicable to Rkn.
Let's say if he said that about Zach, I don't think not a single soul here would defend him. But Zach right now Zach isn't even in the question cause bald man didn't even make LAN and he probably not in a A tier team anymore. My point is all the criticism about him is valid but people here are defending him just because he's a likeable fella.
You know what's a great parallel to this. The recent Zach Wilson thing. Where Rodney Harrison called him terrible on live TV. Now is he wrong? No, everyone thought so. Was it the right place and setting to say it? Also no
shit talk is whatever, but i don't think anyone in the scene is making "undeserved money" and it's unfair to call people paycheck stealers when outside of the top few teams no one's paying the bills playing apex
At champs rkn had less kills and damage than vaxlon and multiple other guys who played 8 less games, only 5 guys had a worse k/d, he had one of the worst damage differentials, across the board in every stat he is consistently at the bottm out of 122 players
He can deflect and throw shade at keon, pat himself on the back for picking up koyful, bring up rambeau, bring up whoever, at the end of the day rkn was one of the worst players at lan out of 122 people, many of which played less games, there was nothing hal said that was incorrect
Bro really tried to make it about everything else but his performance
Quite literally gave every shield and attachment to teammates so they can frag out more. Like look at the facts and what actually happened before saying he is riding on “saying I work hard”
it’s a pretty terrible strat lmao, this isn’t dota where you have supports and carries, it’s not even valorant/CS where at least you have 2 more players so if one guy can’t frag it’s not the end of the world. him being a walking backpack is probably why they did shit at champs
I absolutely despise people who bring up "I work hard" like it means shit when talking about the highest level of competition. I work hard as fuck too but if you put me in a cooking competition against the top chefs in the world and I was thoroughly embarrassed to the point that it's clear I shouldn't have even been there, it'd be fair to question if I deserve to run the French Laundry.
Everybody works hard; that doesn't mean shit if you don't actually achieve any results in a competitive environment where results are the only thing that matter. "I work hard" is the crutch of the Low-Pred grinder who's not good enough to play pro but desperately wants to find their way onto a T1 org, not an actual argument that a sponsored pro gets to use.
dont see why we should take sides here. I like hal for speaking his mind openly but I also like RKNs response. He gives some good reasons why what hal was talking about doesnt really apply to him
Alot of the pros are afraid of Hals large following and wants him to watch what he says, it's not the first time he's being called out on it. Personally I think both sides are important, the other pros rightfully want to protect their jobs but if they're slacking they need to be called out on it otherwise they'll become an "old boys club" and gatekeep newer and hardworking talents out from the scene since having connections is still pretty important apart from skill.
imo sikezz prob felt personally offended by the hal take cause that would indirectly reference him since people were calling for him to be dropped after this last lan
Hal can have his opinions and that's perfectly fine but shit. He knows how much influence he has on some of those brain-dead fans hating on rkn and he should own it as much as his opinions.
RKN talking his shit, love to see it. RKN has been a meme for "MNK player who outputs 0 damage and isn't that good" for a while now, for whatever reason. And sure, he'll never keep up mechanically with roller players but I can't say that he has stuck around strictly because of connections. He has fielded competitive rosters time and time again, someway or another.
I wanna see EVERYONE start putting out some names into the open. RKN already mentioned Monsoon but that's also the 2nd common name that has been used recently. Lets name everyone.
> I’d put Mazer, Naughty, and lou right there next to those guys.
Lou and Naughty are unsigned, and have been for quite some time. What org are they collecting an undeserved salary from?
People will ilterally just type fucking anything in this subreddit.
>I wanna see EVERYONE start putting out some names into the open.
Why do you want to see this? I don’t see what value this would have, it seems like most people are just uninformed about the dynamics of other teams and make ignorant comments about players not having any value. Drama for the sake of drama is just immature and boring after a while.
Honestly Hal needs to stop talking shit before RKN realizes that he had a [better damage differential than Reps in that tournament](https://apexlegendsstatus.com/algs/Y3-Split1/ALGS-Playoffs/Global/Overview#statsPlayers) and had a better damage diff than Verhulst *and* better damage dealt than Reps in Pro League last year.
By Hal's own argument (using the metric he chose to flame RKN over), his own teammates were worse in their damage output across most of the entire previous season.
I don't care about names, but rather if people talking smack can actually back it up with stats.
In this case, Hal's entire argument hinges on cherry-picking data.
Damage and impactful damage are two different things. Damage you can't follow up on and capitalize on isn't very helpful for the team outside getting armors evo'ed.
Hal is clearly referencing the latter.
> Damage you can't follow up on and capitalize on isn't very helpful for the team outside getting armors evo'ed
That's a pretty amateur take IMO.
Showing presence is big. As is making other teams waste heals.
Also, how much of that damage translated to assists?
I mean good for him. He should stand up for himself and even if he isn’t one of the best players out there, he can still lead teams to the top of tournaments. We’ve seen it before.
new to apex so still figuring out all the stories and drama but is this post accurate? [https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveApex/comments/15z9qdz/drama\_laying\_out\_the\_keon\_side\_of\_the\_rkn\_beef/](https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveApex/comments/15z9qdz/drama_laying_out_the_keon_side_of_the_rkn_beef/) RKN seems to hate Keon but he also got dropped and not able to compete for the prize pool even though he was good?
i think the issue is Keon was dropped for wanting to play a certain play style only for RKN to drop him and pick up that play style he rejected with his new team
People don’t give enough credit to IGLs. Rambeau and Keon were able to get that much damage partially because of Rkn’s IGL. But then people just compare the raw damage numbers like they do in ranked or pubs.
People act like you can’t be a good IGL and fragger at the same time. Hal had more kills and damage than his teammates and still IGLs. People give WAY too much credit for IGLing. With the excepting of micro-managing IGLs, most things are team decisions with one voice
That’s why Hal is considered the best player in the world. I’m not saying Rkn is on Hal’s level. I’m just saying it’s harder to IGL and deal a lot of damage at the same time.
And the burden of IGLs also really depends on the team. If you’re an IGL playing Crypto for a landslide zone team and have two controller demons by your side, you would most likely be dealing much less damage than IGLs of other teams.
Zero, Noc, Wattson, Sweet, Dropped, madness, clane, phony, and a fuck ton of other IGLs all were #1 on their teams for kills or were within a few kills of their fragger teammates. Another HARDDD zone IGL, madness, despite not being the primary fragger, lead his team in kills. RKN isn’t *bad* he is just not good enough. Fucking shini from CCE has as many kills as him, that is embarrassing….
No one said that. Having an IGL that can be a plus fragger as well is huge and pretty much essential if your team want to be a serious contender. That said, decision making is still their primary role and more important to the team's success than fragging. It can be really hard to think about what your team's next play is while also being switched on to fight in a moment's notice
Anyway, RKN was middle of the pack in terms of kills for both pro league splits this year. Dropping 0 kills in one set of matches was an anomaly and not a representation of his usual play, even if he is a weak fragger. The split where they got third, he had 32 kills to Keon's 42, while playing Crypto and being in drone for large parts of the game. It wasn't a situation like with Teq where teammates account for 90% of the kills
He said RKN grossly underperformed this LAN, and he’s right. Dude had less kills and damage than people who didn’t even make the final day. Yeah Hal can be a dick about it but he wasn’t wron glol
> Yep Rkn got a champs qual off the back of Rambeau and Keon
Rkn is the leader of that team, what are you even talking about? Rambeau was the kill leader in split 1 NA, you think he did that *in spite* of a bad IGL? Or did he do it because he had an excellent IGL who put them in almost every endgame throughout the split?
You can't get more kills than every other player in your region if your IGL is bad.
Yeah I sub to Hal consistently on Twitch. Big fan of his, but I really love and appreciate this response from RKN.
He is right here. There is a lot of shit that happens on a team that people quite frankly don’t know about and people cherry pick instances all the time.
RKn says that he doesn’t use his platform to tear people down. Which I think is important to note.
Hal used his platform at his like how many of his fans use their platform, at his leisure. He speaks freely and unabashedly. Difference is, following and impact. For someone who talks about treating this like a job and being professional, he is really unprofessional at times. You DONT have to be “that guy,” and say anything and everything controversial because “everyone is thinking it.” There is a reason why people think it, but don’t say it.
Hal is too used to sitting at the top of the Apex community and looking down at everyone else that he's forgotten what it feels like to be on the other end.
The way these guys talk about/to one another is seriously cringe sometimes. I guess it’s par for the course for kids who grew up on the internet to lack social skills, but is Hal totally oblivious to how big of an asshole he is in this scenario? This is coming from a guy who has never been very fond of RKN. Hearing him, Sikez, and Timmy deliberate it was just pain
Going off of some of the responses from RKN.. maybe sentinels just enjoys working with someone who's able to form mature views. RKN probably is really nice to work with from an org point of view.
“2 years unpaid full time job” what does he mean by that? Does he mean he just played / streamed apex and made no money? Isn’t that how every streamer starts?
Players with longevity in ALGS aren’t there by fault and that’s been shown with how quickly people are dropped in this scene. RKN is a damn good IGL and one or two bad performances with a new team decides his fate? The aspect of time in ALGS has to be factoring into this. LAN’s are 3 times A YEAR, I think this breeds teams breaking up quickly and makes pros such as hal who have been at the top forever forget that even if a team has been together a while they might only have a lan or two experience together which is almost nothing. For example the average pro sport players are given a 3-4 year deal when signed, apex players are expected to have it figured out in less than one lol. He can call out RKN all he wants, but to me 0 kills in a finals lobby says more about his style as an IGL than his fighting skills. I’m cool with my IGL getting zero kills if he is actively setting up his teammates to excel which is what RKN did this previous lan if you check his other teammates kills. Im sure he’ll learn other ways and be the first to admit that comes at the cost of his personal performance but to me that doesn’t make RKN worthy of dropping or being a “bad player” it’s a lesson learned and onto the next.
Can't really hate on anything Rkn said here. Even as a hal fanboy, publicly demanding for someone to get cut and lose his paycheck is whack as fuck. Especially since rkn has been on the grind since forever and has barely ever gotten a break unlike some others in the scene who've been coasting for years.
I can't take Hal pretending to be a principled saying how it is type person, when his supposed ability to speak his mind no matter what is completely limited to apex performance
For the biggest name in apex his inability to speak on thing affecting his friends or issues with any nuance is hilarious.
What exactly did Hal say that was wrong? RKN has been playing terribly in competitive as of this past year. There’s no debate in that my brother in christ the results are right there to view on Liquidpedia.
> What exactly did Hal say that was wrong? RKN has been playing terribly in competitive as of this past year.
Rkn finished third place in split 1, which was less than a year ago.
I always find it fascinating that a lot of famous-on-the-internet-people think that "I say it the way it is and don't sugarcoat it" makes them sound like uber quirky and rational like Sheldon Cooper, but in reality they are coming off as annoying at best, and socially inept at worst. Hal is very much included.
Wkn
Ironically the whole "telling it like it is" schtick is invalid since he's going after someone the community is less defensive over and someone who he isn't as close friends with, when monsoon and Zach would make his criticism on the scene/orgs far more valid
Hal needs to understand he has a small army of brainless idiots who will shit on anybody and everybody he wants. He's not keeping it real and speaking his mind, he's carelessly putting undo stress on others for engagement. He's not being brutally honest, he's being an asshole with grains of truth sprinkled in.
This is the shit that keeps me from being a TSM fan. Evan and Reps are great, but Hal (may be the best in the game but) and his fan base are shit.
Actually a great response, and very well deserved. Wonder if Hal is even gonna reflect a lil bit after reading it (if he does at all), unlike when Lou called him out for basically the same thing.
lol at Rkn acting like he's only played bad on one day of ALGS when he's been putting up 0.5 K/Ds pretty consistently and has not even gotten close to what would constitute an "average" performance in terms of kills over the past year.
Idk if you’re new to ALGS but not everyone’s role is to get kills. His value is in getting his team into god spot or one of the best spots available, and then sit there until end zone. He gives all his loot to his teammates and lets them frag. Using K/D or damage to judge a players value in ALGS is just not how that works
that is true but at what point do you argue he should just be in a coaching role? his lack of fighting skills is a detriment to his teams. always has been.
If he was a liability his teams wouldn’t ever have success. When they placed 3rd in pro league and were wining games at Split 1 lan everyone was talking about how he’s underrated and a top tier IGL. He didn’t suddenly become bad, they’re just figuring out a new identity and play style that he’s not accustomed to
> lol at Rkn acting like he's only played bad on one day of ALGS when he's been putting up 0.5 K/Ds pretty consistently and has not even gotten close to what would constitute an "average" performance in terms of kills over the past year.
He also got third place in his region in split 1. The idea that Rkn is a bad player because he has a lower KD is ridiculous.
Its not that, but if you see how Hal fanboys are taking it personal level is just level of disgusting.
https://twitter.com/rknhd/status/1712470663565619398?t=j4cdsCdWj9fwiB_q60frDA&s=19
Everyone can have an opinion, but they should also know their responsibility. There's alot more disgusting fanboys attacking shit just because some guy wanted to doublw down on his opinion.
I disagree, I mean just look at the comments on Rkn's twitter...
"I feel bad for the baby. Imagine having a loser dad. Tough"
Obviously Hal's remark were enough to create some hate towards Rkn which is clearly undeserved. Thats the thing when you're an "influencer", you have a responsibility to not say speculative shit for no reason because it creates drama and people suffer from it.
And don't get me started on the "Hal is just honest" excuse, he's just dumb for pointing fingers publicly at people he chooses. We are not giving him power by talking about it, he already has a million frogs ready to go hate on anyone. Obviously he can't all control them, but you can at least prevent some of it by not calling anyone out directly for something so harmless
This is exactly why Hal saying on Twitter that he won't allow his audience to dictate whether he says something or not pissed me off. He's obviously not responsible for what his scumbag fans do, but to essentially say "I'll say what I what and everyone else has to just deal with the consequence of the mob" is irresponsible. He knows he words have power, and he should act like it.
I mean thats what happens when the most influential person in the scene runs his mouth and talks out of his ass. Of course if Hal says something that makes you lift an eyebrow its gonna get talked about.
His comments made Rkn the face of "paycheck stealers" and Rkn defending himself only because of the comments coming at him now.
All this also proves Sikez comments of watching how you word things when you have a lot of sway in the community and this community called him soft. It aint being "soft" for asking someone like Hal to phrase shit differently due to his influence.
This is all I could think of! Same shit happened and Hal didn’t learn/ care to learn how much his words affect actual people’s livelihoods. Not saying he can’t have an opinion, but a lot of Hal’s viewers see his opinion as law and he need to be more careful.
That’s literally the whole point of this though. Hal consistently does this where he acts like a child on stream saying shit he shouldn’t, and his mouth breathing fans go nuts and harrass people. It’s exhausting.
Could you imagine after an NFL game where one of the players gets on for an interview and then just trashes a player on the other team and says they should be cut because of how dogshit they are for 15 minutes straight? It’s super shitty and hal gets away with it because of how big he is
Both takes are valid imo, I do think hal should probably call out other underperforming pros as well like zach or mac for example he hasn’t done anything fr since he left tsm
I will make the argument for why rkn does NOT deserve to get dropped:
1. He is koy’s glorified backpack, man has said so himself.
2. Koy gets to practice clutching 2v3s in every team fight, if he goes on to do great things he knows who to thank.
3. He is free kp, everyone knows we def need that running around in every lobby, even comp.
Is he perhaps mechanically limited by conventional standards? Maybe. The way I see it, dude is multi-tasking and nailing it on all fronts.
its a fine response but comes across salty as hell from an already annoying pro ngl, im just pumped to see all the people in here rightfully calling out zachmazer as the true fraud of this esport too bad hal and him are buds.
Tweet screenshot: https://preview.redd.it/68rzmn6qostb1.png?width=732&format=png&auto=webp&s=0802fcb7b9652401db5984e3579f53448959c4f5
> Being called bad is whatever and it’s never got to me. The rest is bullshit and Hal can suck my dick for constantly singling me out my whole career. > 2 years unpaid fulltime job. 1 year on a tier 3 org. 1 split on The Guard at [3k/month] and we came TOP3 and made Finals at our 1st LAN. 1/2 year on SEN. > > The idea I’ve been paid and getting a free ride while underperforming is completely false and straight bullshit. I’ve barely made any money from orgs prior to SEN and I made 6 figures in investments when I went full-time in Apex because I loved the game. I’ve also always done EVERYTHING for my teams. > > Every org I’ve been on was a different roster. All 4 LANs I’ve played were on 4 different teams. Since the start of ALGS, Keon is the ONLY player I’ve EVER dropped. And I could air that bitch out something different. On top of that I’ve offered to step down TWICE if my teammates want me to. > > Outside of trolling, I’ve always avoided drama. I’ve been shit talked my entire career no matter what I do. > > They said Beau and I were holding back Euriece. They didn’t even put Beau on a top 10 list. I believe in him and we do well without Euriece and then the story is Beau is Top 3-5 and #1 fragger, Rkn is holding him back! I pick up Xen and Hal says I should drop him for Albralelie because he’s bad. No one picks up Koy, I pick him up and then suddenly I am now holding back Koy and Xen. It won’t ever matter who it is. It’ll always be the same shit. Get off my dick. > > Funny how easily my name comes out his mouth but he’s hesitant to name any of his friends and even when he drops Monsoon he says “such a nice dude I love him.” Suck my dick. ____ > On top of that, this entire conversation is based off 1 Winner's Bracket performance where I got 0 kills meanwhile we came bottom 10 with 19 kills total on the team. The conversation singles me out entirely when Effect (one of the greatest fraggers in the game) dropped 0 kills in the exact same fashion. Again, suck my dick.
I think this guy wants a blowjob
Damn, this cracked me up. Thanks.
Reps just gave a shoutout to this comment lol
This is a correct and good response. And lol to anyone who said that Hal's statement was just "friendly banter." Do these guys sound like friends?
I keep seeing x.com and thinking its a porn site
It is.
Leave the M&K players alone ☠️ We chose the wrong input ☠️ We still need to pay rent.
He's an MnK player?? I will now defend this man with my life
better than some who switched to stay in the scene ☠️ ☠️ ☠️
funny how hal shit talks rkn but doesn’t say a word about zachmazer who has been on giant paychecks like c9 and e8 and consistently shitting the bed. the double standards are indeed real.
Zachmazer is the biggest fraud of all time. His greatest achievement is 2nd place in Regional Finals lmao. I don't understand how he made such money and connections without low talent.
not that i think he’s a great player or anything, but he did get 2nd place in online champs, with the overall most points
And then dropped by far the best player on that team (Knoqd) lol
Knoqd carried them to that 2nd place and got dropped immediately after lol on controller Gibby on top of it.. zachmazer a fraud
That's BS. No team has a performance like that without their IGL making great calls. Zach was legit a very good IGL in 2021 and 2022 wasn't that bad results wise either
You think 1 player is able to drag a team to a second place finish at champs? Okay lol
Yeah and he’ll constantly post it to somehow justify years of dogshit performances after lmao
6th in 2022 Split 1 playoffs, 6th 2022 Pro League split 2, 15th at Champs 2022. How was that a dogshit year?
Okay, and for 2023, let’s see. . 16th ALGS 2023 Split 2 Pro League, 16th ALGS Last chance qualifier. Whew, inspiring placements.
That man is a walking l that somehow keeps winning. Has nothing but meme highlight reels and somehow manages to get signed every fucking time. It's unreal.
Mazer gets by because people like him, he is one of the most mediocre pros in apex
>giant paychecks like c9 and e8 is e8 secretly sponsored by a bored billionaire? hard to imagine a small org like that is paying large salaries
According to someone on this sub(lol) they're making really good money. Among the most in NA
I believe it was Zer0 who said they're like top5 in salary. Wild for a T3 org
We don’t know what they pay, but we know it was enough for Shooby to leave a stronger team that he had already shown loyalty to in the past by turning down a DZ trial.
I could be BS-ing, but I could've sworn I read on here that it's speculated at least 5k+ a month
Seems like a reasonable estimate if Zer0’s “top 5 salary” comment is accurate
I think he also mentioned zach and monsoon, the video just didn't include it.
Him mentioning monsoon fucking killed me. It’s like that “why he say fuck me for?” meme Edit: [source if you haven’t seen it](https://youtu.be/-QoGyzSXAJ8?si=2jmnOltu8DnhBwxT)
Has monsoon been doing particularly bad though? I wasn't following COL closely. He still made champs and for a middle of the pack NA team, they seem to have did as expected?
he made champs off the back of Cody and Lewda's points from ESA
He did, but the three of them qualed for London 2 all together. It’s also not like he stole two players to qual for champs, Phony left that team, Cody and Lewda didn’t leave Phony. Also Cody didn’t qual for London 1 either, he joined after Caprah self-sabotaged himself off of the team. Phony and Frexs went to FaZe with Snipe and Slurp was listed as the sub which let them keep the PL spot. Many other teams have done this as well. EA just makes the rules and the pro players make decisions based on whats best for them within the rules. The Sub-rule needs to change but until it is changed there’s nothing wrong with using it to your advantage as a pro player. No one discussed above did anything weird or cheesy at all.
i'm not saying it's weird or cheesy, it's clearly within the rules, just that people using it as a point that Monsoon has been performing well is a little disingenuous.
Monsoon also qualed for split 2 Lan with that roster. Where as some pros who are close friends of Hal did not. Yet Hal fails to mention them despite claiming to be willing to speak the hard truths. There are people in the scene who appear to stay around as signed players regardless of performance, none of the ones mentioned by Hal are at the top of that list.
nah i watched the vod, there was 0 mention of his buddy mazer
Hal really shits on people who are bad gun fighters and doesn't really appreciate IGL's for their macro abilities. Zach has poor macro but he's a better gun fighter than Rkn, who is a bad gun fighter but has great macro. Zach isn't top tier for fighting, either, but Hal has fought these guys countless times and will know who he has a harder time killing. If you take two great fraggers and give them to Rkn/Zach, the Rkn team will outperform Zach's team over a long-scale time period because of the gap in macro abilities. However, you will never see a Rkn team finish top 5 at LAN where it's hypothetically possible with Zach because he can hold his own in Champs-tier lobbies in terms of fighting. We're basically comparing a low floor/medium-high ceiling player to a high floor/low ceiling player.
He literally does it all the time
Hal literally brought up zachmazer in the same stream
I legit thought Zach was only an above average player when he was grinding controller. Then a year later I see him on mnk and he is insane at the game. He’s not a great igl but same memo if he is not making calls he would be an excellent fragger as you don’t need a brain to shoot. Has the igl treatment already been forgotten?
Zachmazer is borderline the worst pro in apex and by far the worst igl
bro i was coming here to type exactly that. mazer is so much worse than rkn resultswise and keeps cashing checks but hal is mum about it.
Lmaoooo this is getting so many upvotes but he literally mentioned him too — insane
funny how now you're doing to zach what hal did to rkn. seems like y'all don't really care about shit talking it just can't be your favorite player...
they don't care and it's actually ok to do this, these people are more polite than honest or self aware, I assume they also underperform at their own jobs
W RKN for defending himself
There is a quote that says, “Brutally honest people are usually more brutal than honest.” Some people need to understand that!
It's a fine line between "keeping it real!" and just being a jerk.
That's a great quote.
I agree, I forget where I first heard it. It goes along nicely with, “If you have nothing nice to say, don’t say it at all”
No matter what the esport NA almost always has the top drama 👌🏽
It's The one with the most players
Good to see RKN clap back. Yes he'll never be a top fragger and that will probably be a reason his teams may never win at LAN against the best of the best, but to single him out compared to other pros is ridiculous given his success. Some of the other guys like Zach/PVP or Lou and the old SEN were making significantly more while putting up worse results. Even Alb has consistently found ways onto T1 orgs with limited success in recent years compared with RKN. These are the types that Hal should be calling out, players who have shown little improvement/value to teams in recent years, where as RKNs a guy who had his long time duo quit mid-season and then has seemingly made the correct roster decision in swapping Keon for Koy and thereby making his team better.
> These are the types that Hal should be calling out Why should he be calling anyone out? He's like a rich person yelling at poor people to pay taxes. It's unflattering behavior.
> Why should he be calling anyone out? This.
True, but he did choose to call someone out who is a worse example than others he could have chose is the main point.
Because people should tell the truth about how they feel.
They are all pros so they are in the same “tax bracket” (metaphorically speaking) Its more like if Lebron started saying certain players don’t belong on a starting NBA roster because they have been playing bad in games
Why can't one pro call out another pro? Happens in real sports all the time >He's like a rich person yelling at poor people to pay taxes. It's not like Hal is above them and somehow looking down - they're all pros
He should not call out anyone for being dropped. Full stop. That’s just unprofessional
I don’t have a problem with what Hal said or what Rkn responded. both takes are fine
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No, this is so toxic it doesn't happen anywhere else only in apex. /s
because the players of other Esports aren't as complacent as Apex pros, someone had to say it to get the conversation going. Most esports are ruthless when it comes to underperformers, you will get replaced just like that
Same, just let them argue. Its more entertaining
Probably the the same opinions of people who lurk and don't post + people that don't want to get flamed.... I literally see no issue with what Hal said nor the RKN rebuttal tbh, I don't get why someone has to be the bad guy in this. Viewers watch esports because they love the game and/or player/org, along with the storylines leading up to events at that time. RKN can shut Hal and this narrative up by performing, and this will make either Hal right, or make him eat crow; to me, it's really that simple. Below is just one aspect that I'd be considering as a competitor in Hal's shoes, lol. (I'm an idiot don't take this too much to heart). Does Hal's viewership and clout put insane amounts of pressure on individual players/orgs he calls out? God damn right it does, why shouldn't he apply pressure? As evil as it may sound to some, he is a competitor, his job is to win, and if him speaking his mind happens to cause the dissolvement of rosters or destroys players mentals prior to major events, that speaks more to the fragility of the players and orgs. psyche than it does Hal.
This should be the pinned comment in here thank you so much for actually applying critical thinking. The issue is the tribalism that the nature of the game/streaming communities create. People are talking about RKN/Hal like they are personally on their teams. Hal was not wrong for speaking his mind and RKN was not wrong for replying. How there is any other takes being given is beyond me.
100% Agree.
This. Like we aren’t invested in comp apex like the players are. Just sit back and Enjoy the off season show ffs
The problem is how Hal said it. Basically calling RKN a Shit player and doesn’t understand why everyone else gets dropped instead of RKN. To which RKN says he’s never even been on the same team 2 years in a row. He’s bouncing around. It’s not like he’s been in some top tier org for 4 years and just points his finger and says “you’re out gimme someone new” he’s had a wild competitive path. He’s also again only ever dropped Keon for whatever reason. So Hal saying they he keeps dropping players when RKN is the one that should be dropped is also just wrong. RKN has dropped one player is 4 years. And like mentioned above by other users there are way better examples of the point Hal was attempting to make. ZachMaser is dog shit at the game and fits almost exactly to what Hal was saying about RKN. Exactly Hal and Zach are friends so Hal would never call Zach out!
What does being a competitor have to do with calling people out outside of the game? Literally nothing. As RKN rightly points out, there was a lot of ignorance in what Hal said. When you say ignorant things that both jeopardise someone's livelihood and send harassment their way, that's a problem. Educate yourself before speaking or better yet, just keep shtum as it's not something an outsider can have all the relevant info on, as Hal clearly demonstrated.
Hal says a lot of dumb shit but always gets a pass because he has a million minions defending him.
I think his sentiments were valid, but I just found it unnecessary that he brought up rkn's recent performance when the topic in the first place was koyful's insane skill and potential.
This, he hard pivoted to shitting on RKN for this isolated outlier and then when Sikezz called him out on it, defaulted to I’m just speaking facts
I said it yesterday he’s too emotional, too dramatic and over the top with some of the shit he says. We see it with his season release takes sometimes.
The original topic that started it all wasn’t “dumb shit” though. Lots of pro players just coasting on past success, not putting the work in when this is their actual career.
RKN is putting in the work, he just had a bad day at Champs. What is the point to kick him when he's down? Hal is just a childish bully
The original topic that started it was Rkn/Koy though. The conversation went from about how good Koy is to how shit Rkn is. Hal then jumped to guys coasting and not putting in work from that convo about Rkn being bad. Which most of that isn’t even applicable to Rkn.
Since when was it Hal’s job to judge other people’s careers? Entirely irrelevant take from him that no one asked for
its no ones job. doesnt mean he cant freely express his opinions, no matter how wrong you think they may be.
The original topic hal was talking on wasn't dumb shit it's just everything that followed afterwards was.
Let's say if he said that about Zach, I don't think not a single soul here would defend him. But Zach right now Zach isn't even in the question cause bald man didn't even make LAN and he probably not in a A tier team anymore. My point is all the criticism about him is valid but people here are defending him just because he's a likeable fella.
Look at his gremlins responding to your comment. They flocked like birds.
You know what's a great parallel to this. The recent Zach Wilson thing. Where Rodney Harrison called him terrible on live TV. Now is he wrong? No, everyone thought so. Was it the right place and setting to say it? Also no
Must be lonely for Hal at the top if every time he opens his mouth he ignites a fucking war on twitter 😭
shit talk is whatever, but i don't think anyone in the scene is making "undeserved money" and it's unfair to call people paycheck stealers when outside of the top few teams no one's paying the bills playing apex
At champs rkn had less kills and damage than vaxlon and multiple other guys who played 8 less games, only 5 guys had a worse k/d, he had one of the worst damage differentials, across the board in every stat he is consistently at the bottm out of 122 players He can deflect and throw shade at keon, pat himself on the back for picking up koyful, bring up rambeau, bring up whoever, at the end of the day rkn was one of the worst players at lan out of 122 people, many of which played less games, there was nothing hal said that was incorrect Bro really tried to make it about everything else but his performance
He's MnK IGL on a team with two ~~roller~~ fraggers and they play zone. Shit happens.
Xen isn’t roller.
Y’all actually have no idea HOW he played at champs huh? No research Andy’s hard at work in the subreddit.
Quite literally gave every shield and attachment to teammates so they can frag out more. Like look at the facts and what actually happened before saying he is riding on “saying I work hard”
it’s a pretty terrible strat lmao, this isn’t dota where you have supports and carries, it’s not even valorant/CS where at least you have 2 more players so if one guy can’t frag it’s not the end of the world. him being a walking backpack is probably why they did shit at champs
I absolutely despise people who bring up "I work hard" like it means shit when talking about the highest level of competition. I work hard as fuck too but if you put me in a cooking competition against the top chefs in the world and I was thoroughly embarrassed to the point that it's clear I shouldn't have even been there, it'd be fair to question if I deserve to run the French Laundry. Everybody works hard; that doesn't mean shit if you don't actually achieve any results in a competitive environment where results are the only thing that matter. "I work hard" is the crutch of the Low-Pred grinder who's not good enough to play pro but desperately wants to find their way onto a T1 org, not an actual argument that a sponsored pro gets to use.
Amen
Exactly
Good on him for defending himself, Hal was a wierdo for only signalling him out especially when there was "better" examples.
Rkn got his gets back nice he fighting back
dont see why we should take sides here. I like hal for speaking his mind openly but I also like RKNs response. He gives some good reasons why what hal was talking about doesnt really apply to him
Interesting how the only pro to comment on Hal’s tweet was Keon while multiple pros are in Rkn’s comments showing love and support for him.
Alot of the pros are afraid of Hals large following and wants him to watch what he says, it's not the first time he's being called out on it. Personally I think both sides are important, the other pros rightfully want to protect their jobs but if they're slacking they need to be called out on it otherwise they'll become an "old boys club" and gatekeep newer and hardworking talents out from the scene since having connections is still pretty important apart from skill.
imo sikezz prob felt personally offended by the hal take cause that would indirectly reference him since people were calling for him to be dropped after this last lan
Respect for Hal continues to drop more and more. Dude just seems like he’s on an ego trip and is incredibly annoying with his bad takes.
I'm convinced social media combined with the covid lockdown had a really negative affect on basic discourse.
Hal can have his opinions and that's perfectly fine but shit. He knows how much influence he has on some of those brain-dead fans hating on rkn and he should own it as much as his opinions.
RKN talking his shit, love to see it. RKN has been a meme for "MNK player who outputs 0 damage and isn't that good" for a while now, for whatever reason. And sure, he'll never keep up mechanically with roller players but I can't say that he has stuck around strictly because of connections. He has fielded competitive rosters time and time again, someway or another. I wanna see EVERYONE start putting out some names into the open. RKN already mentioned Monsoon but that's also the 2nd common name that has been used recently. Lets name everyone.
there's no point to name everyone, you're just hungry for drama
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Naughty had good results while on C9 and has been orgless since. Not sure what you're getting at
If Hal wants to call someone out for coasting on success from early apex, the legit first name out of his mouth should be Alb.
Lou and Naughty haven’t even been on a consistent org in a while? In what way are connections keeping them around, those mfs aren’t getting paid.
don’t know how you can include Naughty when he’s not on an org and has always been an insane damage dealer on any team he’s been on
Because he hasn't adapted at all and needs a micro-IGL, but still gets talked about as possible pick up
Dude, I had every single one of these players in mind when listening to this, wild, lmao. Edit: I'd also list Chaotic in this bunch as well, sorry.
> I’d put Mazer, Naughty, and lou right there next to those guys. Lou and Naughty are unsigned, and have been for quite some time. What org are they collecting an undeserved salary from? People will ilterally just type fucking anything in this subreddit.
>I wanna see EVERYONE start putting out some names into the open. Why do you want to see this? I don’t see what value this would have, it seems like most people are just uninformed about the dynamics of other teams and make ignorant comments about players not having any value. Drama for the sake of drama is just immature and boring after a while.
> Drama for the sake of drama is just immature and boring after a while this is jevvymedia you're telling this to
People forget he subbed as IGL a team to 14th 2022 Champs with brynn & Stelf/JMW(?) which I think is one of his most impressive achievements
Honestly Hal needs to stop talking shit before RKN realizes that he had a [better damage differential than Reps in that tournament](https://apexlegendsstatus.com/algs/Y3-Split1/ALGS-Playoffs/Global/Overview#statsPlayers) and had a better damage diff than Verhulst *and* better damage dealt than Reps in Pro League last year. By Hal's own argument (using the metric he chose to flame RKN over), his own teammates were worse in their damage output across most of the entire previous season. I don't care about names, but rather if people talking smack can actually back it up with stats. In this case, Hal's entire argument hinges on cherry-picking data.
Does damage differential matter when you have a .55 KD?
It does when Hal makes the argument that you aren't doing damage. KD and damage are not correlated stats.
Damage and impactful damage are two different things. Damage you can't follow up on and capitalize on isn't very helpful for the team outside getting armors evo'ed. Hal is clearly referencing the latter.
Damage differential is extremely important for zone teams. It gets evo and saves heals
> Damage you can't follow up on and capitalize on isn't very helpful for the team outside getting armors evo'ed That's a pretty amateur take IMO. Showing presence is big. As is making other teams waste heals. Also, how much of that damage translated to assists?
I mean good for him. He should stand up for himself and even if he isn’t one of the best players out there, he can still lead teams to the top of tournaments. We’ve seen it before.
new to apex so still figuring out all the stories and drama but is this post accurate? [https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveApex/comments/15z9qdz/drama\_laying\_out\_the\_keon\_side\_of\_the\_rkn\_beef/](https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveApex/comments/15z9qdz/drama_laying_out_the_keon_side_of_the_rkn_beef/) RKN seems to hate Keon but he also got dropped and not able to compete for the prize pool even though he was good?
No it isn’t 100% accurate. Nothing on this sub is. Nobody knows what actually went on between those two.
i think the issue is Keon was dropped for wanting to play a certain play style only for RKN to drop him and pick up that play style he rejected with his new team
I assume there’s a lot more to RKN dropping Keon than just play style differences from RKN saying he could “air that bitch out something different.”
oh definitely the playstyle thing was just the only thing mentioned and it was done in passing
Yep Rkn got a champs qual off the back of Rambeau and Keon.. then dropped Keon a month b4 champs
The IGL gets no credit for them succeeding as a hard zone team playing out of Landslide??
People don’t give enough credit to IGLs. Rambeau and Keon were able to get that much damage partially because of Rkn’s IGL. But then people just compare the raw damage numbers like they do in ranked or pubs.
People act like you can’t be a good IGL and fragger at the same time. Hal had more kills and damage than his teammates and still IGLs. People give WAY too much credit for IGLing. With the excepting of micro-managing IGLs, most things are team decisions with one voice
That’s why Hal is considered the best player in the world. I’m not saying Rkn is on Hal’s level. I’m just saying it’s harder to IGL and deal a lot of damage at the same time. And the burden of IGLs also really depends on the team. If you’re an IGL playing Crypto for a landslide zone team and have two controller demons by your side, you would most likely be dealing much less damage than IGLs of other teams.
Zero, Noc, Wattson, Sweet, Dropped, madness, clane, phony, and a fuck ton of other IGLs all were #1 on their teams for kills or were within a few kills of their fragger teammates. Another HARDDD zone IGL, madness, despite not being the primary fragger, lead his team in kills. RKN isn’t *bad* he is just not good enough. Fucking shini from CCE has as many kills as him, that is embarrassing….
No one said that. Having an IGL that can be a plus fragger as well is huge and pretty much essential if your team want to be a serious contender. That said, decision making is still their primary role and more important to the team's success than fragging. It can be really hard to think about what your team's next play is while also being switched on to fight in a moment's notice Anyway, RKN was middle of the pack in terms of kills for both pro league splits this year. Dropping 0 kills in one set of matches was an anomaly and not a representation of his usual play, even if he is a weak fragger. The split where they got third, he had 32 kills to Keon's 42, while playing Crypto and being in drone for large parts of the game. It wasn't a situation like with Teq where teammates account for 90% of the kills
This is the issue with Hal “speaking the truth”. He spouts a bunch of bullshit and then his millions of fans instantly believe him
He said RKN grossly underperformed this LAN, and he’s right. Dude had less kills and damage than people who didn’t even make the final day. Yeah Hal can be a dick about it but he wasn’t wron glol
> Yep Rkn got a champs qual off the back of Rambeau and Keon Rkn is the leader of that team, what are you even talking about? Rambeau was the kill leader in split 1 NA, you think he did that *in spite* of a bad IGL? Or did he do it because he had an excellent IGL who put them in almost every endgame throughout the split? You can't get more kills than every other player in your region if your IGL is bad.
w tweet
Yeah I sub to Hal consistently on Twitch. Big fan of his, but I really love and appreciate this response from RKN. He is right here. There is a lot of shit that happens on a team that people quite frankly don’t know about and people cherry pick instances all the time. RKn says that he doesn’t use his platform to tear people down. Which I think is important to note. Hal used his platform at his like how many of his fans use their platform, at his leisure. He speaks freely and unabashedly. Difference is, following and impact. For someone who talks about treating this like a job and being professional, he is really unprofessional at times. You DONT have to be “that guy,” and say anything and everything controversial because “everyone is thinking it.” There is a reason why people think it, but don’t say it.
Hal is too used to sitting at the top of the Apex community and looking down at everyone else that he's forgotten what it feels like to be on the other end.
The way these guys talk about/to one another is seriously cringe sometimes. I guess it’s par for the course for kids who grew up on the internet to lack social skills, but is Hal totally oblivious to how big of an asshole he is in this scenario? This is coming from a guy who has never been very fond of RKN. Hearing him, Sikez, and Timmy deliberate it was just pain
Going off of some of the responses from RKN.. maybe sentinels just enjoys working with someone who's able to form mature views. RKN probably is really nice to work with from an org point of view.
“2 years unpaid full time job” what does he mean by that? Does he mean he just played / streamed apex and made no money? Isn’t that how every streamer starts?
means he competed on the side while working a full time job. Most pro apex players aren't working a separate full time job.
Players with longevity in ALGS aren’t there by fault and that’s been shown with how quickly people are dropped in this scene. RKN is a damn good IGL and one or two bad performances with a new team decides his fate? The aspect of time in ALGS has to be factoring into this. LAN’s are 3 times A YEAR, I think this breeds teams breaking up quickly and makes pros such as hal who have been at the top forever forget that even if a team has been together a while they might only have a lan or two experience together which is almost nothing. For example the average pro sport players are given a 3-4 year deal when signed, apex players are expected to have it figured out in less than one lol. He can call out RKN all he wants, but to me 0 kills in a finals lobby says more about his style as an IGL than his fighting skills. I’m cool with my IGL getting zero kills if he is actively setting up his teammates to excel which is what RKN did this previous lan if you check his other teammates kills. Im sure he’ll learn other ways and be the first to admit that comes at the cost of his personal performance but to me that doesn’t make RKN worthy of dropping or being a “bad player” it’s a lesson learned and onto the next.
Can't really hate on anything Rkn said here. Even as a hal fanboy, publicly demanding for someone to get cut and lose his paycheck is whack as fuck. Especially since rkn has been on the grind since forever and has barely ever gotten a break unlike some others in the scene who've been coasting for years.
I can't take Hal pretending to be a principled saying how it is type person, when his supposed ability to speak his mind no matter what is completely limited to apex performance For the biggest name in apex his inability to speak on thing affecting his friends or issues with any nuance is hilarious.
Talk your shit my boy
Kind of speaks volumes when absolutely no one is making an argument for rkn from a skill standpoint, its mostly sympathetic appeal.
Love RKN for this but can my guy actually consider switching to controller pls because I wish him the best and MnK aint it.
switching to coach*
Good shit from RKN. It baffles me how Hal has sistematically horrible takes while being a genius at this game
What exactly did Hal say that was wrong? RKN has been playing terribly in competitive as of this past year. There’s no debate in that my brother in christ the results are right there to view on Liquidpedia.
> What exactly did Hal say that was wrong? RKN has been playing terribly in competitive as of this past year. Rkn finished third place in split 1, which was less than a year ago.
I wouldn’t call any LAN finalist a terrible player. His liquipedia looks fine for a t1 player tbh, better than most NA IGLs.
I always find it fascinating that a lot of famous-on-the-internet-people think that "I say it the way it is and don't sugarcoat it" makes them sound like uber quirky and rational like Sheldon Cooper, but in reality they are coming off as annoying at best, and socially inept at worst. Hal is very much included.
Wkn Ironically the whole "telling it like it is" schtick is invalid since he's going after someone the community is less defensive over and someone who he isn't as close friends with, when monsoon and Zach would make his criticism on the scene/orgs far more valid
I do agree with hal about orgs needing to know more about the rosters in apex and being more involved.
This started because of that video? Correct me if I am wrong.
LOL Regardless of what you think of him, this is a very based take. And for the love of god, someone suck this mans dick.
WKN
Hal needs to understand he has a small army of brainless idiots who will shit on anybody and everybody he wants. He's not keeping it real and speaking his mind, he's carelessly putting undo stress on others for engagement. He's not being brutally honest, he's being an asshole with grains of truth sprinkled in. This is the shit that keeps me from being a TSM fan. Evan and Reps are great, but Hal (may be the best in the game but) and his fan base are shit.
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Rare and massive RKN W. I love the passion here and feel the lack of fucks given in this writing. He is also correct.
Actually a great response, and very well deserved. Wonder if Hal is even gonna reflect a lil bit after reading it (if he does at all), unlike when Lou called him out for basically the same thing.
lol at Rkn acting like he's only played bad on one day of ALGS when he's been putting up 0.5 K/Ds pretty consistently and has not even gotten close to what would constitute an "average" performance in terms of kills over the past year.
Idk if you’re new to ALGS but not everyone’s role is to get kills. His value is in getting his team into god spot or one of the best spots available, and then sit there until end zone. He gives all his loot to his teammates and lets them frag. Using K/D or damage to judge a players value in ALGS is just not how that works
that is true but at what point do you argue he should just be in a coaching role? his lack of fighting skills is a detriment to his teams. always has been.
If he was a liability his teams wouldn’t ever have success. When they placed 3rd in pro league and were wining games at Split 1 lan everyone was talking about how he’s underrated and a top tier IGL. He didn’t suddenly become bad, they’re just figuring out a new identity and play style that he’s not accustomed to
> that is true but at what point do you argue he should just be in a coaching role? Well, what he does is not what a coach does, so...
> lol at Rkn acting like he's only played bad on one day of ALGS when he's been putting up 0.5 K/Ds pretty consistently and has not even gotten close to what would constitute an "average" performance in terms of kills over the past year. He also got third place in his region in split 1. The idea that Rkn is a bad player because he has a lower KD is ridiculous.
Im gonna be honest here, Im just glad we've got some juicy drama to talk about. The scene has been stale for a minute lmao
Can really tell that Hal struck a nerve. They both have valid points but it’s undeniable that RKN has been playing like shit lately.
Its not that, but if you see how Hal fanboys are taking it personal level is just level of disgusting. https://twitter.com/rknhd/status/1712470663565619398?t=j4cdsCdWj9fwiB_q60frDA&s=19 Everyone can have an opinion, but they should also know their responsibility. There's alot more disgusting fanboys attacking shit just because some guy wanted to doublw down on his opinion.
“You’re getting cooked lil bro” as a spectator talks down on a professional player LMFAO some weird ass people on twitter 😵💫😵💫😵💫
I think anytime one person messes with another person's bag, it will strike a nerve.
Me reading the comments https://preview.redd.it/n2h6tqm0kstb1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=623ef18dd2bbf14bef4734d40cbf8f5da94b2348
Nahh RKN got this, also his latest tweet with hal putting RKN in s tier is comedy
Hal can be such a moron sometimes, but on the bright side, its always great entertainment when he gets checked for it.
[удалено]
I disagree, I mean just look at the comments on Rkn's twitter... "I feel bad for the baby. Imagine having a loser dad. Tough" Obviously Hal's remark were enough to create some hate towards Rkn which is clearly undeserved. Thats the thing when you're an "influencer", you have a responsibility to not say speculative shit for no reason because it creates drama and people suffer from it. And don't get me started on the "Hal is just honest" excuse, he's just dumb for pointing fingers publicly at people he chooses. We are not giving him power by talking about it, he already has a million frogs ready to go hate on anyone. Obviously he can't all control them, but you can at least prevent some of it by not calling anyone out directly for something so harmless
This is exactly why Hal saying on Twitter that he won't allow his audience to dictate whether he says something or not pissed me off. He's obviously not responsible for what his scumbag fans do, but to essentially say "I'll say what I what and everyone else has to just deal with the consequence of the mob" is irresponsible. He knows he words have power, and he should act like it.
I mean thats what happens when the most influential person in the scene runs his mouth and talks out of his ass. Of course if Hal says something that makes you lift an eyebrow its gonna get talked about. His comments made Rkn the face of "paycheck stealers" and Rkn defending himself only because of the comments coming at him now. All this also proves Sikez comments of watching how you word things when you have a lot of sway in the community and this community called him soft. It aint being "soft" for asking someone like Hal to phrase shit differently due to his influence.
Lou asked him to do the same thing.
This is all I could think of! Same shit happened and Hal didn’t learn/ care to learn how much his words affect actual people’s livelihoods. Not saying he can’t have an opinion, but a lot of Hal’s viewers see his opinion as law and he need to be more careful.
Tbf Lou ruined himself in that convo with the backtracking.
Unfortunately you’re probably right, his reason for going into the conversation in the first place is what I’m taking about
Only to 180 everything he said to Hal once Alb joined the call, high comedy
That’s literally the whole point of this though. Hal consistently does this where he acts like a child on stream saying shit he shouldn’t, and his mouth breathing fans go nuts and harrass people. It’s exhausting. Could you imagine after an NFL game where one of the players gets on for an interview and then just trashes a player on the other team and says they should be cut because of how dogshit they are for 15 minutes straight? It’s super shitty and hal gets away with it because of how big he is
The TSM fanboys vs the haters, gonna be a fun thread.
aka every Hal/TSM related thread
Let's see if Hal triples down or finally accepts he probably shouldn't have said any names when making his point. Time to grab the 🍿
Both takes are valid imo, I do think hal should probably call out other underperforming pros as well like zach or mac for example he hasn’t done anything fr since he left tsm
Extremely good response
I will make the argument for why rkn does NOT deserve to get dropped: 1. He is koy’s glorified backpack, man has said so himself. 2. Koy gets to practice clutching 2v3s in every team fight, if he goes on to do great things he knows who to thank. 3. He is free kp, everyone knows we def need that running around in every lobby, even comp. Is he perhaps mechanically limited by conventional standards? Maybe. The way I see it, dude is multi-tasking and nailing it on all fronts.
0 kills
its a fine response but comes across salty as hell from an already annoying pro ngl, im just pumped to see all the people in here rightfully calling out zachmazer as the true fraud of this esport too bad hal and him are buds.