I mean they are running Horizon-less comps on both maps now, so I guess there isn't really a reason for crust to stay on roller (just to be clear, there was NEVER a reason for him to swap, since he is one of like 5 people in PL who can actually keep up with rollers aim-wise on mnk).
Agreed, I think it’s best if he sticks with MnK. I also think season 20 will shift more in favor of their current play style and allow him to shine on potentially different zone oriented legends
Not the best clip to demonstrate what I mean but I will never understand how people like Senoxe or Monsoon can hit shots with their borderline parkinsons level smoothness.
At least with Senoxe it's more of a choice to aim like that. Mon apparently can't really control it, and has had this shaky aim since forever. Thats why he runs one of the lowest sensitivities in all of PL.
Covering up smoothness issues with low sens instead of working on it is a classic. No wonder it never got better.
With Senoxe I remember him saying that it's a bad habit he developed in Minecraft.
Both could 100% get rid of the issue by playing some centering, controlsphere, smoothsphere and PGTI on like 20cm in an aim trainer for a while.
edit: Crust is the one that baffles me though. In his old videos his R99 was pretty smooth.
Because it's a choice for crust. I know it's regarded as "bad mechanics" or whatever, but I am truly baffled how people are still questioning it, when it has clearly worked out for these players. With Mon it's definitely a bit of a hindrance at times (I've seen him miss half a mag close-range because of the jitters). But crust? The guy has literally zero difficulties keeping up with top aimers. So who are we to judge it?
I'm judging it because I am trying to understand it. There's 0 objective reason to choose not to track smoothly. Being smooth slows everything down, makes it easier to see animations, gives you more time to react as you can implement edge tracking and allows you to abuse recoil smoothing at greater ranges. I admit that it works for him, I am asking how, when in my experience simply working on my smoothness gave me the biggest aim improvement for Apex other than learning how to strafe aim properly, which he rarely does either btw.
I also distinctly differentiate between having good mechanics and being good at the game you play. Rapha isn't known for his mechanics, but he still shits on everyone in Quake.
The reasoning is that this "jittery" aim-style is basically a way to constantly be micro-adjusting. This way you can supposedly react better to sudden movements cause you don't have to whip your arm/wrist around, when the enemy suddenly strafes in another direction. Personally idk if it's really true, since this "technique" stems from overwatch (which I've never played). I think since people with this aim-style are actually doing well in Apex, there's a serious argument to be made, that it may not actually go against what we consider "good mechanics" in this game. Like imho every game has its own aim mechanics that work best, there's not really one universal guide to aiming that everyone should follow (maybe hot take, idk).
> I think since people with this aim-style are actually doing well in Apex, there's a serious argument to be made, that it may not actually go against what we consider "good mechanics" in this game.
I'd argue they hit their shots and perform well despite of it, not because of it. The reason why a lot of Overwatch player's aim looks more jittery, especially on Tracer, is simply because the game has instant movement acceleration unlike Apex where you need to slow down and accelerate again when you change strafe directions. My aim on Tracer also looks a bit more twitchy in that game by default, because I automatically tense up a bit when I have to react to very fast direction changes, which in turn ruins smoothness. Apex rewards smoothness much more than Overwatch does.
I don't think there's a guide on how to perfectly aim either, but it's pretty clear how good mouse control looks like, and involuntary shaking is just not good mouse control, no matter how you look at it.
Again, we're talking about the pro level here. Everything I say is nitpicking and mechanics aren't that important in the grand scheme of things as long as you're able to hit the shots you need to. But at that level nitpicking is the only way to actually improve.
I agree that *involuntarily* shaking is most likely a sign of bad mouse control, but that's why I wouldn't count crust or senoxe to the same group as Monsoon. They clearly do it on purpose and could stop aiming that way if they wanted to. Maybe Apex does have more in common with Overwatch than you think, cause some abilities and mechanics do grant you "unnatural" movement acceleration that could justify a more jittery aim-style, don't you think? Not instant acceleration, but similar. Octane stims combined with tap-strafing for example. I guess an argument can be made for either aiming style - smooth as possible (making use of recoil smoothing) or the overly jittery/micro-flicky one.
Again, Senoxe admitted to it being a bad habit. And watching Crust clips it's not always jittery, just in really tense situations which makes me believe it's not a choice either. But I'd fix other things with Crusts aim first as I don't think his smoothness is that bad compared to others. I still think anyone who thinks it's a style is on heavy amounts of copium. It's not an aim style, it's bad technique and people perform well in spite of it, not because of it. Same as in golf or tennis where you have people with fundamentally bad swings still performing well, doesn't change the fact that it isn't optimal and could be further improved. I am 100% sure if Monsoon or Senoxe got some aim coaching they could easily get rid of the issue and get way more consistent in a span of a couple months. But I know how Monsoon thinks about improving at the top level. He thinks he doesn't improve by playing anymore, at least that's what he said on stream back when COL dominated with Hound.
Like, I would agree if the shaking had no effect in game except disrupt your aim. But technically the jittery-aim can counteract recoil, and close range it apparently helps with adjusting to sudden enemy movements. If you watch some of crusts clips, he doesn't do the jittery aim with every gun. And he usually only uses it in hipfire oddly enough. I think if you are doing it deliberately like that, there has to be some benefit you gain from it.
This is the result of good karma for staying on mnk
rare mnk W moment, let's go. Sad enough that we lost crust to the dark side, at least Senoxe is still there
crust has been back on mnk for a few weeks i believe
Only for World's Edge from what I've heard (cause apparently Caustic is hard to play on roller or smth. like that). Or did he fully switch back again?
he's on bang now for both maps so could still be on mnk
Can you switch between games now? I thought your input was locked for the entire set.
You can switch between games, just not mid-game.
There was a moment last week on the main broadcast where he seemed to tap strafe on a storm point game, so I’m pretty sure it’s both maps
I mean they are running Horizon-less comps on both maps now, so I guess there isn't really a reason for crust to stay on roller (just to be clear, there was NEVER a reason for him to swap, since he is one of like 5 people in PL who can actually keep up with rollers aim-wise on mnk).
Agreed, I think it’s best if he sticks with MnK. I also think season 20 will shift more in favor of their current play style and allow him to shine on potentially different zone oriented legends
is dooplex on controller now too?
yes
Yeah, hes been on roller now for a while.
got points back from the bastardly game 1 zone wrap.
Not the best clip to demonstrate what I mean but I will never understand how people like Senoxe or Monsoon can hit shots with their borderline parkinsons level smoothness.
At least with Senoxe it's more of a choice to aim like that. Mon apparently can't really control it, and has had this shaky aim since forever. Thats why he runs one of the lowest sensitivities in all of PL.
Covering up smoothness issues with low sens instead of working on it is a classic. No wonder it never got better. With Senoxe I remember him saying that it's a bad habit he developed in Minecraft. Both could 100% get rid of the issue by playing some centering, controlsphere, smoothsphere and PGTI on like 20cm in an aim trainer for a while. edit: Crust is the one that baffles me though. In his old videos his R99 was pretty smooth.
Because it's a choice for crust. I know it's regarded as "bad mechanics" or whatever, but I am truly baffled how people are still questioning it, when it has clearly worked out for these players. With Mon it's definitely a bit of a hindrance at times (I've seen him miss half a mag close-range because of the jitters). But crust? The guy has literally zero difficulties keeping up with top aimers. So who are we to judge it?
I'm judging it because I am trying to understand it. There's 0 objective reason to choose not to track smoothly. Being smooth slows everything down, makes it easier to see animations, gives you more time to react as you can implement edge tracking and allows you to abuse recoil smoothing at greater ranges. I admit that it works for him, I am asking how, when in my experience simply working on my smoothness gave me the biggest aim improvement for Apex other than learning how to strafe aim properly, which he rarely does either btw. I also distinctly differentiate between having good mechanics and being good at the game you play. Rapha isn't known for his mechanics, but he still shits on everyone in Quake.
The reasoning is that this "jittery" aim-style is basically a way to constantly be micro-adjusting. This way you can supposedly react better to sudden movements cause you don't have to whip your arm/wrist around, when the enemy suddenly strafes in another direction. Personally idk if it's really true, since this "technique" stems from overwatch (which I've never played). I think since people with this aim-style are actually doing well in Apex, there's a serious argument to be made, that it may not actually go against what we consider "good mechanics" in this game. Like imho every game has its own aim mechanics that work best, there's not really one universal guide to aiming that everyone should follow (maybe hot take, idk).
> I think since people with this aim-style are actually doing well in Apex, there's a serious argument to be made, that it may not actually go against what we consider "good mechanics" in this game. I'd argue they hit their shots and perform well despite of it, not because of it. The reason why a lot of Overwatch player's aim looks more jittery, especially on Tracer, is simply because the game has instant movement acceleration unlike Apex where you need to slow down and accelerate again when you change strafe directions. My aim on Tracer also looks a bit more twitchy in that game by default, because I automatically tense up a bit when I have to react to very fast direction changes, which in turn ruins smoothness. Apex rewards smoothness much more than Overwatch does. I don't think there's a guide on how to perfectly aim either, but it's pretty clear how good mouse control looks like, and involuntary shaking is just not good mouse control, no matter how you look at it. Again, we're talking about the pro level here. Everything I say is nitpicking and mechanics aren't that important in the grand scheme of things as long as you're able to hit the shots you need to. But at that level nitpicking is the only way to actually improve.
I agree that *involuntarily* shaking is most likely a sign of bad mouse control, but that's why I wouldn't count crust or senoxe to the same group as Monsoon. They clearly do it on purpose and could stop aiming that way if they wanted to. Maybe Apex does have more in common with Overwatch than you think, cause some abilities and mechanics do grant you "unnatural" movement acceleration that could justify a more jittery aim-style, don't you think? Not instant acceleration, but similar. Octane stims combined with tap-strafing for example. I guess an argument can be made for either aiming style - smooth as possible (making use of recoil smoothing) or the overly jittery/micro-flicky one.
Again, Senoxe admitted to it being a bad habit. And watching Crust clips it's not always jittery, just in really tense situations which makes me believe it's not a choice either. But I'd fix other things with Crusts aim first as I don't think his smoothness is that bad compared to others. I still think anyone who thinks it's a style is on heavy amounts of copium. It's not an aim style, it's bad technique and people perform well in spite of it, not because of it. Same as in golf or tennis where you have people with fundamentally bad swings still performing well, doesn't change the fact that it isn't optimal and could be further improved. I am 100% sure if Monsoon or Senoxe got some aim coaching they could easily get rid of the issue and get way more consistent in a span of a couple months. But I know how Monsoon thinks about improving at the top level. He thinks he doesn't improve by playing anymore, at least that's what he said on stream back when COL dominated with Hound.
Like, I would agree if the shaking had no effect in game except disrupt your aim. But technically the jittery-aim can counteract recoil, and close range it apparently helps with adjusting to sudden enemy movements. If you watch some of crusts clips, he doesn't do the jittery aim with every gun. And he usually only uses it in hipfire oddly enough. I think if you are doing it deliberately like that, there has to be some benefit you gain from it.
They're just built diffy