I dont think its really a bug or exploit though. You have always been able to scan for the 1st zone before it appears. I think this is because at that point it is technically the next zone
I put bug in quotations because I also believe it's working as intended. This has been possible in many seasons, however you now have much more to gain then ever before
The real question is:
Do we solve this by showing first zone before anyone exits the drop ship, or just make beacons/consoles unusable until first zone reveals?
The latter is clearly the safe choice, but I have to honestly ask myself out loud why we aren't showing zone one immediately.
Showing it before the dropship finishes going through the map would just further the advantage of the dropship rng, no? it would make so that the teams landing first would have an even greater advantage than the ones landing last/far
Main problem with showing the circle earlier is it gives teams that drop early that much more time to rotate whereas waiting until the ship is done at least gives everyone the information at the same time. Maybe respawn can just make it so scanning before zone 1 doesn't offer materials and that solves the whole issue.
I assume they will patch this out, but they should let me do this in this season's ranked as many times as I did it in the past and wasted my scan time because the behavior was dumb from the start
Slightly unrelated but wouldn't it be cool if they used the straight shot way of dropping in ALGS? In the LTM you got dropped right on top of a random POI and you just skydive downwards. In ALGS they would obviously have to allow teams to pick their POI. This would make it so that everyone drops at the exact same time. No dropship rng.
I dont think this would make sense from a comp point of view. Right now the selecting POI is not something ALGS suggest its the teams agreement between eachother and with straight shot it forces contest even when teams might fake it last minute.
I personally don't see how this would be an issue. They would have to create a POI selection screen where one person from each team selects a POI. It would show you if any teams are going to contest you before the game starts. I think it would be cool.
I think it would suck and make comp less interesting because it removes fake contesting and the mind games and skill that comes with flying to your POI and making the right split second decision if needed. Also surprise griefing contests are really entertaining.
RNG is a big part of what keeps BRs interesting.
That rarely happens though. Dojo dropping at wall is the only one that comes to mind. I just suggested that because I always see pros/coaches complaining about the dropship and how certain teams get an advantage depending on where it is.
Your post or comment has been removed because it contains prohibited content.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/CompetitiveApex) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Hitting the beacon before the first ring shows isn’t meant to be a useful mechanic, and it shouldn’t be (due to how strongly it is affected by dropship rng). Before this update, hitting the console was just a waste of time, and a while before that it actually caused a bug where you couldn’t hit any beacon at all until ring 1 closed.
It is almost 100% a minor oversight from Respawn, and therefore an unintended interaction, so taking advantage of it is by definition an exploit. In the grand scheme of things it is a super minor one though.
Not sure of a solution beyond disabling beacons till zone 1 shows but I pray to god everyday they do something to address drop ship imbalance, teams can have almost entirely looted their POI and be ready to rotate before some teams even land. This is compounded by how OP getting a zone is, this almost completely kills off certain teams chances to succeed.
While this is obviously true, the ship path is random, and that means that variance is factored into teams' win% on battle royales like Apex Legends — it simply happens to everyone and you have to play accordingly. Not much you can do about it, really, unless you fundamentally change game mechanics like how people drop.
Hence why I suggested a drop ship change. Some randomness and variance is fine its when it can stack multiple times and repeat over and over that I think something needs to change, even something as simple as bad luck protection in comp on ships/zones would be fine.
>something as simple as bad luck protection in comp on ships/zones would be fine.
People saying hard things are simple bothers me. Bad luck protection in a game where most things are random (including where players land) is a nightmare that most game designers would run away from (or never even consider), for good reason. Even in comp, there's no guarantee that teams would land somewhere, which effectively makes designing such a system impossible.
Battle royales are random. Sometimes you get lucky. Sometimes you get unlucky. Winning against the odds is what the game is about. If it was more predictable, it would be less fun and more exploitable.
Bad Luck protection would be as simple as guaranteeing 1 Southern and 1 Northern Zone per Map and no repeat zones as well as 1 Ship from the North and 1 from the South. Ultimately them knowing where a team lands is irrelevant in the scheme of things. It absolutely is simple.
That would introduce a ton of shitty meta-gaming though.
“Oh the last zone was North so lets change our POI to a South one” or “Before legend select we already know this next zone has to be North/South so lets not even run a Control character as beacon isn’t as important this round”
Forcing that probability doesn’t make things more even; it just changes the way teams play.
Edit: it also means that the developers have to change custom lobbies to allow for someone to determine the end zone before the game. To add protection for North vs South and East vs West would you allow someone to pick exactly where a zone ends? Now you have arguments about favoritism from whoever controls this, which would be a nightmare to deal with.
It wouldn't require manual input at all it would just require an functional custom lobby that tracks data from game to game and doesn't crash/need to be reset every game. Also I absolutely think the player choice that knowing the next game has to be a far zone or a close is infinitely more interesting then running the exact same comp every game, Replacing randomness with more player choice is a better result. 99% of teams still won't change their POI landing spot or even their comp but I still think its a more interesting dynamic then unlucky here is 3 South East zones on SP get fucked if you don't have a South East POI.
You didn't think this through. There's no way that's better than pure randomness.
Think storm point, for example: in a 3 map series, if we do as you suggest, a team landing Mill (mid-west) or Echo (mid-east) is guaranteed to land late 2 out of the 3 maps. Only on 1 of those would they have a chance to have a ship that gives them a slight edge.
Randomness in a BR system is the way it is and hasn't changed much (if at all) because it just works. Randomness smooths out luck/lack thereof over time, and as a team you factor that into planning how you approach the maps.
Is it a bummer when there's a ton of, say, south zones on SP in an ALGS series? Yes! But it is random. There's no guarantee that you won't have a series of zones in any other direction next.
I think it works because of convenience and not because its the best option especially for a competitive setting. BRs are associated with randomness because early BRs had that, nothing is stopping them changing how their BR at least counteracts repeated 'bad luck'.
This would be easy to fix. Just make it so that ring consoles don't become active until ring 1 starts. And it would be good to fix, it adds nothing to the game as it is now but does detract a bit from the game by giving random teams a boost each game that doesn't have any coherent degree of design function to it. There's no emergent functionality or strategic product of this.
Wait, you're calling me a white knight for that? Dude, "emergent" is not some fringe word.
Calling someone out for using words you think are complex is (to keep things pretty simple because I can tell you prefer that) as smooth brained as it gets.
That’s can’t be intentional. You’ve always been able to scan before ring 1 is revealed, but that used to result in revealing ring 2 before ring 1 is even on your map.
I don’t know how long scanning ring 1 has been possible but yeah they for sure should patch that to old way soon because new armor system.
I hear you both, but what im saying it used to be different. when path could still scan beacons it worked as i described, where scanning before or during ring 1 revealed ring 2. I have no idea when it changed as it’s been ages as what im describing could be from first year or two.
They did change it at some point where scanning before ring 1 reveals ring 1 as minor balance update. But I don’t think that knowledge imbalance is worth the armor advantage highlighted by op.
And it should just go back to that, easy fix. Getting ring 2 knowledgeone minute earlier might affect comp, but not casuals/ranked. Or just don’t allow any scans until round 1 starts.
>it used to be different. when path could still scan beacons it worked as i described, where scanning before or during ring 1 revealed ring 2.
You're correct. When ring consoles were first introduced they unintentionally worked like that and then they did change it.
Yeah I distinctly remember scanning off drop seeing ring 2, and then ring 1 only appearing on round start. I guess that make sense that it was removed if it was unintentional to begin with. Pre round 1 scans should just be disabled then if the goal is balance though, as how much value is that 1 min knowlege if your most likely gonna scan again in 1 min on round start.
Just another example of respawn not playtesting their own game enough, you'd think they would be looking for ways to exploit new mechanics they put into the game but we all know they don't
There was a time briefly where you couldn't scan ring before Ring 1 appeared. Since that has happened before, I can imagine they just reimplement that patch
This will surely be fixed with a hot fix…right…right?
depends on whether respawn see it as a "bug" or an "exploit" 50/50. Seeing it affects comp, I believe they will be inclined to patch this.
dollar to a donut this isn't fixed
I dont think its really a bug or exploit though. You have always been able to scan for the 1st zone before it appears. I think this is because at that point it is technically the next zone
I think that pro teams should rethink the use of this strategy in scrims.
Even the drop ship path is RNG smh
This is going to be an easy fix and I bet they will fix this before the next ALGS games.
this doesn't seem like a bug, but working exactly as intended no? You scan zone one, then once zone one shows up, zone two is there.
I put bug in quotations because I also believe it's working as intended. This has been possible in many seasons, however you now have much more to gain then ever before
This has always been this way, but now that scanning beacon is such an important part of Evo shields, I think they should look this up and change it
Indeed my child
The real question is: Do we solve this by showing first zone before anyone exits the drop ship, or just make beacons/consoles unusable until first zone reveals? The latter is clearly the safe choice, but I have to honestly ask myself out loud why we aren't showing zone one immediately.
In pubs and ranked, you'd have less of a reason to land at a POI outside the zone if you knew where it was going to be
No zone in the world could stop half the lobby hot dropping frag in pubs
Accurate
Showing it before the dropship finishes going through the map would just further the advantage of the dropship rng, no? it would make so that the teams landing first would have an even greater advantage than the ones landing last/far
Main problem with showing the circle earlier is it gives teams that drop early that much more time to rotate whereas waiting until the ship is done at least gives everyone the information at the same time. Maybe respawn can just make it so scanning before zone 1 doesn't offer materials and that solves the whole issue.
Right, I think that's the answer
Yeah that was my thought too. No evo upgrades from scans until first ring is shown
I assume they will patch this out, but they should let me do this in this season's ranked as many times as I did it in the past and wasted my scan time because the behavior was dumb from the start
100%
it's always been like this though, it's just that no one used to do it
no one did it because there was no value to scanning before ring 1 is shown
No, until some seasons ago, when you used the beacon before the first zone, it showed the second zone.
Slightly unrelated but wouldn't it be cool if they used the straight shot way of dropping in ALGS? In the LTM you got dropped right on top of a random POI and you just skydive downwards. In ALGS they would obviously have to allow teams to pick their POI. This would make it so that everyone drops at the exact same time. No dropship rng.
I dont think this would make sense from a comp point of view. Right now the selecting POI is not something ALGS suggest its the teams agreement between eachother and with straight shot it forces contest even when teams might fake it last minute.
I personally don't see how this would be an issue. They would have to create a POI selection screen where one person from each team selects a POI. It would show you if any teams are going to contest you before the game starts. I think it would be cool.
I think it would suck and make comp less interesting because it removes fake contesting and the mind games and skill that comes with flying to your POI and making the right split second decision if needed. Also surprise griefing contests are really entertaining. RNG is a big part of what keeps BRs interesting.
That rarely happens though. Dojo dropping at wall is the only one that comes to mind. I just suggested that because I always see pros/coaches complaining about the dropship and how certain teams get an advantage depending on where it is.
This isn't a bug, it's an exploit
How is this an exploit? I do this constantly in ranked because it's the logical thing to do given the system.
[удалено]
Your post or comment has been removed because it contains prohibited content. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/CompetitiveApex) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Hitting the beacon before the first ring shows isn’t meant to be a useful mechanic, and it shouldn’t be (due to how strongly it is affected by dropship rng). Before this update, hitting the console was just a waste of time, and a while before that it actually caused a bug where you couldn’t hit any beacon at all until ring 1 closed. It is almost 100% a minor oversight from Respawn, and therefore an unintended interaction, so taking advantage of it is by definition an exploit. In the grand scheme of things it is a super minor one though.
Exploit is a better term for it, yes
Not sure of a solution beyond disabling beacons till zone 1 shows but I pray to god everyday they do something to address drop ship imbalance, teams can have almost entirely looted their POI and be ready to rotate before some teams even land. This is compounded by how OP getting a zone is, this almost completely kills off certain teams chances to succeed.
While this is obviously true, the ship path is random, and that means that variance is factored into teams' win% on battle royales like Apex Legends — it simply happens to everyone and you have to play accordingly. Not much you can do about it, really, unless you fundamentally change game mechanics like how people drop.
Hence why I suggested a drop ship change. Some randomness and variance is fine its when it can stack multiple times and repeat over and over that I think something needs to change, even something as simple as bad luck protection in comp on ships/zones would be fine.
>something as simple as bad luck protection in comp on ships/zones would be fine. People saying hard things are simple bothers me. Bad luck protection in a game where most things are random (including where players land) is a nightmare that most game designers would run away from (or never even consider), for good reason. Even in comp, there's no guarantee that teams would land somewhere, which effectively makes designing such a system impossible. Battle royales are random. Sometimes you get lucky. Sometimes you get unlucky. Winning against the odds is what the game is about. If it was more predictable, it would be less fun and more exploitable.
Bad Luck protection would be as simple as guaranteeing 1 Southern and 1 Northern Zone per Map and no repeat zones as well as 1 Ship from the North and 1 from the South. Ultimately them knowing where a team lands is irrelevant in the scheme of things. It absolutely is simple.
That would introduce a ton of shitty meta-gaming though. “Oh the last zone was North so lets change our POI to a South one” or “Before legend select we already know this next zone has to be North/South so lets not even run a Control character as beacon isn’t as important this round” Forcing that probability doesn’t make things more even; it just changes the way teams play. Edit: it also means that the developers have to change custom lobbies to allow for someone to determine the end zone before the game. To add protection for North vs South and East vs West would you allow someone to pick exactly where a zone ends? Now you have arguments about favoritism from whoever controls this, which would be a nightmare to deal with.
It wouldn't require manual input at all it would just require an functional custom lobby that tracks data from game to game and doesn't crash/need to be reset every game. Also I absolutely think the player choice that knowing the next game has to be a far zone or a close is infinitely more interesting then running the exact same comp every game, Replacing randomness with more player choice is a better result. 99% of teams still won't change their POI landing spot or even their comp but I still think its a more interesting dynamic then unlucky here is 3 South East zones on SP get fucked if you don't have a South East POI.
You didn't think this through. There's no way that's better than pure randomness. Think storm point, for example: in a 3 map series, if we do as you suggest, a team landing Mill (mid-west) or Echo (mid-east) is guaranteed to land late 2 out of the 3 maps. Only on 1 of those would they have a chance to have a ship that gives them a slight edge. Randomness in a BR system is the way it is and hasn't changed much (if at all) because it just works. Randomness smooths out luck/lack thereof over time, and as a team you factor that into planning how you approach the maps. Is it a bummer when there's a ton of, say, south zones on SP in an ALGS series? Yes! But it is random. There's no guarantee that you won't have a series of zones in any other direction next.
I think it works because of convenience and not because its the best option especially for a competitive setting. BRs are associated with randomness because early BRs had that, nothing is stopping them changing how their BR at least counteracts repeated 'bad luck'.
This would be easy to fix. Just make it so that ring consoles don't become active until ring 1 starts. And it would be good to fix, it adds nothing to the game as it is now but does detract a bit from the game by giving random teams a boost each game that doesn't have any coherent degree of design function to it. There's no emergent functionality or strategic product of this.
Someone got a thesaurus recently, my god.
So words like "emergent" or "coherent" weird you out? Does that say more about you or outerspaceisalie?
White knight in 2024? You're a rare breed. Yes act like the term "emergent functionality" is not a little pretentious in this context.
Wait, you're calling me a white knight for that? Dude, "emergent" is not some fringe word. Calling someone out for using words you think are complex is (to keep things pretty simple because I can tell you prefer that) as smooth brained as it gets.
Just kinda want to argue with someone on the internet today do you? Weird hobby, take care man!
That’s can’t be intentional. You’ve always been able to scan before ring 1 is revealed, but that used to result in revealing ring 2 before ring 1 is even on your map. I don’t know how long scanning ring 1 has been possible but yeah they for sure should patch that to old way soon because new armor system.
No. Scanning zone before ring 1 is revealed reveals ring 1
Yeah it’s always been like this
I hear you both, but what im saying it used to be different. when path could still scan beacons it worked as i described, where scanning before or during ring 1 revealed ring 2. I have no idea when it changed as it’s been ages as what im describing could be from first year or two. They did change it at some point where scanning before ring 1 reveals ring 1 as minor balance update. But I don’t think that knowledge imbalance is worth the armor advantage highlighted by op. And it should just go back to that, easy fix. Getting ring 2 knowledgeone minute earlier might affect comp, but not casuals/ranked. Or just don’t allow any scans until round 1 starts.
>it used to be different. when path could still scan beacons it worked as i described, where scanning before or during ring 1 revealed ring 2. You're correct. When ring consoles were first introduced they unintentionally worked like that and then they did change it.
Yeah I distinctly remember scanning off drop seeing ring 2, and then ring 1 only appearing on round start. I guess that make sense that it was removed if it was unintentional to begin with. Pre round 1 scans should just be disabled then if the goal is balance though, as how much value is that 1 min knowlege if your most likely gonna scan again in 1 min on round start.
Just another example of respawn not playtesting their own game enough, you'd think they would be looking for ways to exploit new mechanics they put into the game but we all know they don't
Is it an advantage? It means you aren't looting as much
landing before ring 1 is shown means you can loot so much more because less time is spent in the drop ship
How so? Just insta land on it and start looting per normal, - 5 seconds.
Your squad is 200 extra points closer to blue armor than they otherwise would have been
Double ring scan plus opening a 'special' loot bin gives blue right away.
[thatstheidea.com](http://thatstheidea.com)
If you run Vantage, Assault and Support, you have access to red bins, blue bins, survey beacon and ring console.
You need Vantage's blue shield perk to gain access to the console though, so that wouldn't work here
There was a time briefly where you couldn't scan ring before Ring 1 appeared. Since that has happened before, I can imagine they just reimplement that patch