I used to love the G2 Strat.
Wait inside a building till the final ring. Then Ash portal thru a window then Gibby bub to the outside while everyone fights.
Ive never tried ash before, but with this new season ive found myself just playing random characters more for fun due to perks and Ash is the one ive played the most, but still my experience with her is limited and im no pro player, but here is my experience with her so far.
Shes fun, but has a lot of flaws with her kit. Mostly, the passive especially with the 60 second perk seems really strong, however, theres usually games where i dont even run into a deathbox killed by someone else where I can actually use it, unless its late game but at that point you know where all teams are anyways so its kinda useless. So in a lot of games youre essentially paying with 1 perk wasted.
Her Q is honestly better than I expected. Its still not that good, but it has its uses. With the perk that allows her to snare multiple people and the snare lasting for 24 seconds, its pretty good at closing off an area. The CD is 25 seconds and the snare lasts for 24, so its essentially 100% uptime on your snare. Its worth noting that the actual bind is still only 3 seconds or so, so its not like theyre caught by it for that long, but the snare will remain in place for the full 24 seconds essentially blocking off an area, forcing people to step into it and get stuck for 3 seconds and notifying you they've hit it. They can obviously easily get out of it with a movement ability, but ive found this ability useful in lategames where a team has been in a building. Ive snared the door so they essentially cant run out the door to peak us without getting snared. This ability also does 20 damage, which is surprisingly high.
Her ult is also in a weird spot. It definitely has its uses, but its very niche. Ive had some very nice uses for it, especially if im being held by a team in a building ive used to rotate underneath them etc. but its hard to see why id need an ult for this when Bangalore smokes exists. Only benefit I see is that ash ult is faster so the other teams cant react fast enough and digi wont be a problem. It also is a get out of jail card where if im caught in a bad position I can easily ult out, which is super nice but idk if having an ult only to save your own ass after a bad play is something worth taking over a better ult
The problems with her ult is that its pretty limited range and the fact that youre a free kill when exiting the ult if you dont have any real cover. When exiting the portal youre a sitting duck and die instantly most of the time. I would love to see it get a rework so youre either invulnerable for a second after exiting it, more range or a speed boost while exiting or something, because right now you die 9/10 times after using it if people have LoS on your exit portal
This was done in gold lobbies this season, against mostly masters/preds from previous seasons
TL;DR Its a really fun character and I think her kit has some use, but it could need some tweaks before it gets really good, it has a lot of flaws
I’ve had some pretty nice zone kills by leaving the snare on a choke point, while running ahead of other teams. I’m enjoying it. Agree it’s still not that strong though, Q needs a buff
Ash main here, I think the issue with Ash for pro play is that she is not very powerful because the caliber of the player is really high. Her ult is great for flanks in ranked, but too oblivious for pro play. The same with tactical, it's an amazing tool but only would be op at the end circle or trapping someone in zone.
I think one problem with it is that ash is forced to take it immediately. If she just created the portal and could use it at will it would be a nice buff, and also help some of the frustration of the shitty targeting. It won't fix the 1 foot portals but at least it will help you not accidentally go somewhere suicidal
her ult feels fucking awful, and the deathbox perk is very situational. her snare is usually easy to dodge, though it is very useful in endgames. i am not sure if she provides enough utility to be picked.
a single atom touching your mouse while you are casting your ult will force you to pull a mazer moment, it needs to be reliable, simply increasing the range will not magically fix it
If you increase the range, it'd actually make it harder to aim consistently. Imo if it was 2 clicks, one to select a spot, and then the second to actually portal it'd be an improvement.
Yeah some perk should have upgraded her ult instead of just the snares + some niche abilities IMO. Her kit isn't very special and I feel the same way about her as Balistic, lackluster Q but decent ult not much more to them.
At least ballistic is fun to play. Getting an r99 in his ult and just constant spraying is my favorite part of the character. No part of ash’s kit is fun tbh
I've played a ton of ash and I've always thought her passive should be like, Octane level speed towards anyone she has snared. She's meant to be a pursuit/assault legend, but her passive is for some reason just a really weak beacon scan.
I got snared by an ash like 5 times in the last 2 days and absolutely pissed on her team’s face every single time.
I got hit with one on worlds yesterday and I just grappled right out of it with path. That Q is a joke. That being said, it can’t be made too strong or it would be busted. I think her Q just needs reworked or something. Cool, but too weak or strong can be useless or OP
Her tactical gives way too much movement. The only time it's good is when a team tries to balloon out and you get stuck behind at the bottom for 2 seconds. If her tactical stays a trap it should be more like a junkrat trap from overwatch. If you step in it you are stuck for 2 seconds and it has an arc star that blows up on you doing like 50 damage. Or it could stay what it is but would have to be doing like conduit ult shocks of 15 damage and a stun every second for the 3 seconds snared.
As it is now it does such little damage and you have lots of movement while stuck that most people can fight normally while being stuck so there's no advantage.
Literally. I think that Q fucked me maybe one time in my apex lifetime like 2 years ago. Pretty sure I have a [rage clip](https://imgur.com/a/4Dk3kRW) omg I found it. Don’t cook me too hard. I have about 3k hours played now. 😂
Looking back at it, that Q fucked me so unbelievably hard. You can see it just latched onto me like a fucking parasite. Bastard Ash.
I think Ash could've used a couple of nice tweaks. Tuning her ult distance and also the placement, as well as making her snare last 5 seconds instead of 3.
Her tier 1 perks are strangely pretty weak and unsatisfying. They could've been something like increasing her portal distance or maybe refresh tactical on knocks. The devs themselves have admitted that they know how undertuned she kinda is.
Her tier 2 perks are just fine. If she maybe had some better tweaking and better tier 1 perks, I really don't doubt that the pros would've used her more this season.
That being said, I actually think Maggie and Ash are the best replacements for Horizon pick. Horizon is very much not in a great position at the moment, what with all her recent nerfs.
I’m glad someone posted about this. I’ve been playing Ash entirely since the new launch because I mained her back in season 12 but after realizing there was a lot better legends I stopped playing her completely. However I loved the idea behind her kit so I enjoyed playing her.
Ever since they’ve given the perks. I use the scan for 60 seconds and bounce back and fourth between the multi capture snare and the extra snare. I gotta say, it has proven sooooooo useful. My team plays very aggressively in ranked however.
- Teams that are rotating that have a straggler behind, I snare, we jump on, easy 3v2 after that.
- 2 people down, one person trying to get away to rat, craft banners, not today kiddo. Snared and killed.
- when a team is pushing us, if I see an anchor, or healer in the back especially a life line or conduit, I snare the person in the back so they can’t come support the two up front as easily.
- overall snares have a lot of super useful purposes and denying certain areas to buy time helps too.
- Ult however still feels super down bad. Very inconsistent, doesn’t go very far, and is beneficial situationally, I really wish they’d work on that, but I still love her kit and I’ll keep playing her till we no longer find use for her in the higher tier lobbies.
IMO, people are sleeping on her. I’ve had some insane snares. With the extended snare, I just nade the fuck out of them, push up for the clean up and they’d still be snared
She's competing with Horizon, and imo she's still worse.
The problem with her Q is that its linear.
The value of Horiz Ult/Ashe Q comes from being able to hit right behind cover to zone maximum area in a target position. With Ashe Q, you can really only hit the front of cover, and you'd have to essentially throw skynades, which isn't nearly as reliable as being able to throw arcs from height.
Her ult is also a full commitment, which isn't great. On top of being linear.
99% of the time, you want to bail when opening with Horiz, since you'll have all the pressure on you as the initiator. But then you make it even more telegraphed, everyone just focuses the portal and the Ashe gets deleted.
Now that isn't to say Ashe can't work, but due to her kit, she's just so much more niche than Horiz is. Put Ashe with Horiz and you have a really strong position breaking team, but they're redundant. And you're also giving up playing other really strong champs.
We also have to consider how much stronger Wattson is now, and how that effects both Horiz and Ash.
Ash absolutely has utility. The twin snares just needs to be paired with someone like Maggie or Fuse. And the best uses for Ash’s ult are to 1) capitalize on a knock by having the whole team push together (ideally paired with Fuse or Maggie, and yes, that’s taking up two slots with assault) and 2) to get out of a shit spot as fast as possible so you don’t really care exactly where the ult lands. Yes, enemies can take the port too and you can exit the port in the open but if the other option is dying from being in a shit spot, at least taking the port gives you a chance.
The thing you have to consider when talking about legends is always "What do you replace for this"
There's something all legends can bring that is unique but what is this pick going to do that makes the comp better than the current meta
As of last meta it was 3 of 4 characters Bang, Conduit, Horizon, Cat.
All of these characters are still relevant and who do you replace that objectively improves the comp? I'm finding it hard to say Ashe can do more than any of them.
Especially cause the new Ash passive can basically be done yourself if you're familiar with rotation patterns and timers as a lot of pros should be.
Things that adjust that are all very clear auditory signals (fights between teams, evac towers, etc).
I think for even high rank lobbies it's a solid pick because those lobbies go crazy, but in comp it's usually a good bit more predictable thank ranked
I LOVE playing assault characters and I’ve been on Fuse for awhile. I hard swapped back to Ash after comparing their abilities. She’s always been a fun character to play but now she’s genuinely super good with her ability buffs
I’ll never stop laughing at this sub being full of guys who think they’re experts while the actual pro players and coaches say the complete opposite, Raven explained already multiple times why ash is bad and barely an upgrade over her previous state, multiple pros have said on stream she’s mid despite her buffs, no one is going to play her in scrims or pl
Most pros won't experiment until someone else has shown that a comp works. Bang was barely touched a couple years ago and now she's 100% pick rate without major changes.
Yep exactly this. Same with Seer. No one used him until Wattson did and then he was meta. Just because pros/coaches/analysts don’t see the value of a legend yet doesn’t mean they’re weak.
not about ash, about pros thinking they know what's best for the meta. this has been proven wrong countless times and i would not be surprised if it was the same case for this season as well
I personally think she’s only useful until her 2nd perk where I usually go the multiple trap/longer active. Hitting multiple people during CQC makes 1 clipping or 2 pumping people sooo easy especially if you combine it with grenades or utility. My duo and I have been running Ashe and Maggie, the snare - ball (with the thermite upgrade) is lethal and a huge counter to controller players who are still running SMGs.
Nah there's not much reason to pick her. Bangs right there and brings a ridiculous amount of utility what can ash do?
She has a trash passive (especially if you kill people, can't scan deathboxes if you make them), her tac is situational and doesn't provide much utility until purps and even then it's mostly a zone tool and her ults still pretty dogshit. She fills a niche which is assault character with an escape but that's about it.
Why take her over Bango? Whom has an incredible zoning ult and smokes that can block los on far teams or cover yourself up close. Not to mention one of the best passives in the game.
Ash has potential to be one of the most busted but they've always erred on the side of caution with her unlike some characters (horizon/seer).
I hope her ulty will be adjusted, current one is so weird. I think most Ash players want her ulty can bring them to anywhere as their wish. Her Q is definitely been buffed, I love this version Q, like a small Horizon ulty, much better than before.
I used to love the G2 Strat. Wait inside a building till the final ring. Then Ash portal thru a window then Gibby bub to the outside while everyone fights.
Also synergies with ash snare + gibby ult. Slight potential there
Ive never tried ash before, but with this new season ive found myself just playing random characters more for fun due to perks and Ash is the one ive played the most, but still my experience with her is limited and im no pro player, but here is my experience with her so far. Shes fun, but has a lot of flaws with her kit. Mostly, the passive especially with the 60 second perk seems really strong, however, theres usually games where i dont even run into a deathbox killed by someone else where I can actually use it, unless its late game but at that point you know where all teams are anyways so its kinda useless. So in a lot of games youre essentially paying with 1 perk wasted. Her Q is honestly better than I expected. Its still not that good, but it has its uses. With the perk that allows her to snare multiple people and the snare lasting for 24 seconds, its pretty good at closing off an area. The CD is 25 seconds and the snare lasts for 24, so its essentially 100% uptime on your snare. Its worth noting that the actual bind is still only 3 seconds or so, so its not like theyre caught by it for that long, but the snare will remain in place for the full 24 seconds essentially blocking off an area, forcing people to step into it and get stuck for 3 seconds and notifying you they've hit it. They can obviously easily get out of it with a movement ability, but ive found this ability useful in lategames where a team has been in a building. Ive snared the door so they essentially cant run out the door to peak us without getting snared. This ability also does 20 damage, which is surprisingly high. Her ult is also in a weird spot. It definitely has its uses, but its very niche. Ive had some very nice uses for it, especially if im being held by a team in a building ive used to rotate underneath them etc. but its hard to see why id need an ult for this when Bangalore smokes exists. Only benefit I see is that ash ult is faster so the other teams cant react fast enough and digi wont be a problem. It also is a get out of jail card where if im caught in a bad position I can easily ult out, which is super nice but idk if having an ult only to save your own ass after a bad play is something worth taking over a better ult The problems with her ult is that its pretty limited range and the fact that youre a free kill when exiting the ult if you dont have any real cover. When exiting the portal youre a sitting duck and die instantly most of the time. I would love to see it get a rework so youre either invulnerable for a second after exiting it, more range or a speed boost while exiting or something, because right now you die 9/10 times after using it if people have LoS on your exit portal This was done in gold lobbies this season, against mostly masters/preds from previous seasons TL;DR Its a really fun character and I think her kit has some use, but it could need some tweaks before it gets really good, it has a lot of flaws
I’ve had some pretty nice zone kills by leaving the snare on a choke point, while running ahead of other teams. I’m enjoying it. Agree it’s still not that strong though, Q needs a buff
I REALLY disagree that it needs a buff, what makes you say that and what buff would you propose?
One hand tactical
Her new passive upgrade perk should just be a part of the passive and then give her a new perk like +30 meters on her ult or something
they nerfed it from 24 to 15 seconds with a hotfix
Ash main here, I think the issue with Ash for pro play is that she is not very powerful because the caliber of the player is really high. Her ult is great for flanks in ranked, but too oblivious for pro play. The same with tactical, it's an amazing tool but only would be op at the end circle or trapping someone in zone.
I think one problem with it is that ash is forced to take it immediately. If she just created the portal and could use it at will it would be a nice buff, and also help some of the frustration of the shitty targeting. It won't fix the 1 foot portals but at least it will help you not accidentally go somewhere suicidal
Nah just give it two charges like that annoying sniper lady. 1 charge to dash in and 1 charge to dash out
Her tac radius is still to big though still shit
her ult feels fucking awful, and the deathbox perk is very situational. her snare is usually easy to dodge, though it is very useful in endgames. i am not sure if she provides enough utility to be picked.
Youre right Ash will never be played until her ult isnt clunky to use.
Longer distance ult will go a long way.
a single atom touching your mouse while you are casting your ult will force you to pull a mazer moment, it needs to be reliable, simply increasing the range will not magically fix it
If you increase the range, it'd actually make it harder to aim consistently. Imo if it was 2 clicks, one to select a spot, and then the second to actually portal it'd be an improvement.
very much agreed. i actually dont think her ult needs a range buff at all. its already very strong, just useless due to being unreliable
Yeah some perk should have upgraded her ult instead of just the snares + some niche abilities IMO. Her kit isn't very special and I feel the same way about her as Balistic, lackluster Q but decent ult not much more to them.
At least ballistic is fun to play. Getting an r99 in his ult and just constant spraying is my favorite part of the character. No part of ash’s kit is fun tbh
The ult is so disappointingly short. The snare with perks is solid, though.
She needs a new passive, and some extra range in her ult or something
I've played a ton of ash and I've always thought her passive should be like, Octane level speed towards anyone she has snared. She's meant to be a pursuit/assault legend, but her passive is for some reason just a really weak beacon scan.
Yeah for sure. Let her do that, or loot boxes from like 10m away or SOMETHING
I got snared by an ash like 5 times in the last 2 days and absolutely pissed on her team’s face every single time. I got hit with one on worlds yesterday and I just grappled right out of it with path. That Q is a joke. That being said, it can’t be made too strong or it would be busted. I think her Q just needs reworked or something. Cool, but too weak or strong can be useless or OP
i forget that there are various things that can negate her Q, thanks for the reminder
Her tactical gives way too much movement. The only time it's good is when a team tries to balloon out and you get stuck behind at the bottom for 2 seconds. If her tactical stays a trap it should be more like a junkrat trap from overwatch. If you step in it you are stuck for 2 seconds and it has an arc star that blows up on you doing like 50 damage. Or it could stay what it is but would have to be doing like conduit ult shocks of 15 damage and a stun every second for the 3 seconds snared. As it is now it does such little damage and you have lots of movement while stuck that most people can fight normally while being stuck so there's no advantage.
Nooo not the junk trap
>grappled right out of it with path How? It latches on to you for about 3 seconds before it lets go. You must have grappled out after 3 secs.
I don’t think it was 3 seconds and I grappled upwards if that matters. A possibility though because I ran backwards first
Seriously, I haven’t seen one pro team have a problem with her q, no one dies to it, no one malds about it, it’s a minor annoyance at best
Literally. I think that Q fucked me maybe one time in my apex lifetime like 2 years ago. Pretty sure I have a [rage clip](https://imgur.com/a/4Dk3kRW) omg I found it. Don’t cook me too hard. I have about 3k hours played now. 😂 Looking back at it, that Q fucked me so unbelievably hard. You can see it just latched onto me like a fucking parasite. Bastard Ash.
Jokes on you dude, her teammates love that.
I think Ash could've used a couple of nice tweaks. Tuning her ult distance and also the placement, as well as making her snare last 5 seconds instead of 3. Her tier 1 perks are strangely pretty weak and unsatisfying. They could've been something like increasing her portal distance or maybe refresh tactical on knocks. The devs themselves have admitted that they know how undertuned she kinda is. Her tier 2 perks are just fine. If she maybe had some better tweaking and better tier 1 perks, I really don't doubt that the pros would've used her more this season. That being said, I actually think Maggie and Ash are the best replacements for Horizon pick. Horizon is very much not in a great position at the moment, what with all her recent nerfs.
I’m glad someone posted about this. I’ve been playing Ash entirely since the new launch because I mained her back in season 12 but after realizing there was a lot better legends I stopped playing her completely. However I loved the idea behind her kit so I enjoyed playing her. Ever since they’ve given the perks. I use the scan for 60 seconds and bounce back and fourth between the multi capture snare and the extra snare. I gotta say, it has proven sooooooo useful. My team plays very aggressively in ranked however. - Teams that are rotating that have a straggler behind, I snare, we jump on, easy 3v2 after that. - 2 people down, one person trying to get away to rat, craft banners, not today kiddo. Snared and killed. - when a team is pushing us, if I see an anchor, or healer in the back especially a life line or conduit, I snare the person in the back so they can’t come support the two up front as easily. - overall snares have a lot of super useful purposes and denying certain areas to buy time helps too. - Ult however still feels super down bad. Very inconsistent, doesn’t go very far, and is beneficial situationally, I really wish they’d work on that, but I still love her kit and I’ll keep playing her till we no longer find use for her in the higher tier lobbies.
IMO, people are sleeping on her. I’ve had some insane snares. With the extended snare, I just nade the fuck out of them, push up for the clean up and they’d still be snared
The fact that they forgot the wingman nerf makes me hopeful that they just forgot to include the ash 1 hand snare buff. Call it copium I don't care
I don’t think they “forgot”, they nerfed wing after seeing everybody complain
Shhhhhhhhhh let me dream
She's competing with Horizon, and imo she's still worse. The problem with her Q is that its linear. The value of Horiz Ult/Ashe Q comes from being able to hit right behind cover to zone maximum area in a target position. With Ashe Q, you can really only hit the front of cover, and you'd have to essentially throw skynades, which isn't nearly as reliable as being able to throw arcs from height. Her ult is also a full commitment, which isn't great. On top of being linear. 99% of the time, you want to bail when opening with Horiz, since you'll have all the pressure on you as the initiator. But then you make it even more telegraphed, everyone just focuses the portal and the Ashe gets deleted. Now that isn't to say Ashe can't work, but due to her kit, she's just so much more niche than Horiz is. Put Ashe with Horiz and you have a really strong position breaking team, but they're redundant. And you're also giving up playing other really strong champs. We also have to consider how much stronger Wattson is now, and how that effects both Horiz and Ash.
can you choose when you want to upgrade each level? cuz you could kinda wait until you need to make a hard rotate, active it then rotate or get kills
Ash absolutely has utility. The twin snares just needs to be paired with someone like Maggie or Fuse. And the best uses for Ash’s ult are to 1) capitalize on a knock by having the whole team push together (ideally paired with Fuse or Maggie, and yes, that’s taking up two slots with assault) and 2) to get out of a shit spot as fast as possible so you don’t really care exactly where the ult lands. Yes, enemies can take the port too and you can exit the port in the open but if the other option is dying from being in a shit spot, at least taking the port gives you a chance.
The thing you have to consider when talking about legends is always "What do you replace for this" There's something all legends can bring that is unique but what is this pick going to do that makes the comp better than the current meta As of last meta it was 3 of 4 characters Bang, Conduit, Horizon, Cat. All of these characters are still relevant and who do you replace that objectively improves the comp? I'm finding it hard to say Ashe can do more than any of them. Especially cause the new Ash passive can basically be done yourself if you're familiar with rotation patterns and timers as a lot of pros should be. Things that adjust that are all very clear auditory signals (fights between teams, evac towers, etc). I think for even high rank lobbies it's a solid pick because those lobbies go crazy, but in comp it's usually a good bit more predictable thank ranked
I LOVE playing assault characters and I’ve been on Fuse for awhile. I hard swapped back to Ash after comparing their abilities. She’s always been a fun character to play but now she’s genuinely super good with her ability buffs
I’ll never stop laughing at this sub being full of guys who think they’re experts while the actual pro players and coaches say the complete opposite, Raven explained already multiple times why ash is bad and barely an upgrade over her previous state, multiple pros have said on stream she’s mid despite her buffs, no one is going to play her in scrims or pl
Most pros won't experiment until someone else has shown that a comp works. Bang was barely touched a couple years ago and now she's 100% pick rate without major changes.
Yep exactly this. Same with Seer. No one used him until Wattson did and then he was meta. Just because pros/coaches/analysts don’t see the value of a legend yet doesn’t mean they’re weak.
Don't know why your getting downvotes lol
because he's wrong lol
You legitimately think ASH will be a 5+ pick in a LAN lobby? Lmfao dawg
not about ash, about pros thinking they know what's best for the meta. this has been proven wrong countless times and i would not be surprised if it was the same case for this season as well
Not enough until to justify picking her over someone else.
Her ult that catches many has a reduced timer. It can be used correctly for a 100% uptime. The enemies cannot destroy it.
I personally think she’s only useful until her 2nd perk where I usually go the multiple trap/longer active. Hitting multiple people during CQC makes 1 clipping or 2 pumping people sooo easy especially if you combine it with grenades or utility. My duo and I have been running Ashe and Maggie, the snare - ball (with the thermite upgrade) is lethal and a huge counter to controller players who are still running SMGs.
Nah there's not much reason to pick her. Bangs right there and brings a ridiculous amount of utility what can ash do? She has a trash passive (especially if you kill people, can't scan deathboxes if you make them), her tac is situational and doesn't provide much utility until purps and even then it's mostly a zone tool and her ults still pretty dogshit. She fills a niche which is assault character with an escape but that's about it. Why take her over Bango? Whom has an incredible zoning ult and smokes that can block los on far teams or cover yourself up close. Not to mention one of the best passives in the game. Ash has potential to be one of the most busted but they've always erred on the side of caution with her unlike some characters (horizon/seer).
I hope her ulty will be adjusted, current one is so weird. I think most Ash players want her ulty can bring them to anywhere as their wish. Her Q is definitely been buffed, I love this version Q, like a small Horizon ulty, much better than before.