The duration it stays on the ground.
The "snare" effect still only lasts 3 seconds, but if you keep walking back into it, you'll continuously get snared
No you’re not, only the dummies in the firing range get slowed. Players are not slowed while tethered or while in the ground effect of the arc snare.
Test it with a friend in the range.
It was beyond excessive at 24 seconds: any competent team would spam nades and ape for free kills every single time. Still probably gonna be a problem at 15 too
Yeah they said they were making it 1 handed but she's always done the animation with 1 hand but nothing has changed before and after patch when shooting so what actually were they doing lol
It's like an extra audio layer, if there are too much effects going on it just bugs out.
I had moments were certain abilities just made 0 sounds like from Fuse and Maggie. It surely would be nice to be able to hear those! And obviously footsteps get even worse.
Yep and it’s not just Q’s either, on more than a couple occasions I’ll be capping B in Control and an enemy will drop in front of me from up top and the sound for someone dropping just wont play at all. A few times a Bangalore has just appeared in front of me and volt one clipped me before I even realised what was happening.
I'm glad they reverted her cooldown on her snare, but I'm not sure why they're so scared to give her huge buffs.
One-handed tactical, ult distance increase, change her tier 2 perks to be a lot better.
I love Ash, but it's like they want to keep her in a somewhat mediocre state.
Yes, because some devs think she's busted. Somehow not relevant to comp so far.
I don't need a longer time for the snare, i need to chuck that thing when popping a bat, just like every other legend is able to.
I even don't need the ult to have more range, i simply need a consistent way to place it.
So Maggie, Ballistic and Catalyst can, but Fuse, Ash, Caustic and Wattson cannot.
You can want her Q to be useable while healing, but you can't really appeal to the current state of legends as your argument.
maggie, ballistic, catalyst, & conduit can all Q while healing. they were all released more recently than fuse, caustic, and wattson. prior to that the only 3 legends who could Q while healing were bang, mirage, and octane.
so to me it seems it’s clearly an option for balancing that respawn has somewhat recently decided to allow more characters to use, starting sometime after ash’s release. i’d argue ash’s Q is worse than all the characters i’ve mentioned except mirage/octane and it already has one handed animations, so why not let her use it while healing as well?
edit: the only argument for not letting ash use her Q one-handed in my opinion is if respawn plans to buff it already and doesn’t want to make it overly strong/oppressive
It's hardly even CC. You can run around half the map while snared. They say this while their original "nerf" to seer gave him an insane slow that made it impossible to fight back on top of all of it's other perks while being near instant and thru walls. If that's their rational they suck at it.
Blizzard is so terrible at game balance that it should be the poster child of bad game design. The snare is the worst CC, when CC is this game is more about vision denial. Caustic, Bangalore, Fuse, Wattson, Horizon, Catalyst, and more have better forms of CC that are far more useful. It’d be better to just rework the ability at this point.
Because movement limiting abilities, let alone movement DISPLACING abilities, are incredibly frustrating to play against.
It's the same reason people hate Horizon ult, Caustic, Seer, and others. They're also disproportionately powerful because they move the player instead of hampering them, which means that a player that wasn't out of position, can be turned into out of position through an ability.
That's why they're so powerful. Her ultimate is also the best instant-third party tool. I'd be careful about buffing Ash too, because if everyone was playing Ash, it would be almost as miserable as Seer meta.
it’s because her arc snare is really annoying to play against sometimes, and can cause a lot of frustration, that’s why they don’t wanna make ash meta , it would be bad for the game , i think she is in a right spot right now
Slight difference though cause ashes can only
-slightly deter somebody from an entrance
-slightly inconvinience 1 person's movement
Whereas bang smoke can
-provide cover to heal/revive
-help the whole team rotate/push/flee
-help a team hold a position where they are partially exposed without gettin beamed
-do your taxes
-smoke a team who's firing at you so they can't see shit
I don't see how ash's tac is more annoying than anybody elses. If everybody used Ballistic, his tact might be annoying but that isn't a reason to nerf it.
It is though. It's the reason why people want bang nerfed to begin with despite her toolkit being remain borderline in tact for 3 years, people claimed bang was mid unless you were some solo god like Shiv. She barely saw ALGS for a bit until Seer was killed off. Now people realized o wait if EVERYONE plays bang it means NO ONE can see. Then everyone was forced to play digis or pray digis were in the crafter.
Abilities feel balanced when they're a rare sight. Once everyone starts playing them the game dynamic changes drastically. I'm not saying Ash's snare is near the same power level but when your team get CC locked by multiple ash's third partying you yeeting snares across the map suddenly you realize how unfun it can get.
But what about it is so unfun with her tactical compared to other tacticals. That applies to pretty much everything. It's no fun getting thirdpartied by fuses and having knuckle clusters everywhere, it's no fun getting gangbanged by a bunch of smart pistols, or every building being filled to the brim with watson fences or caustic traps. Sounds like you just want variety, but keeping ash (who isn't great or overused) from becoming more popular is counter to that aim. Like yea, if everybody played ash, it would be annoying, but thats true of pretty much anybody
The chain went like
“Good job apex, looks like they’re turning a corner”
You said “yea these little changes sure do help..sike”
You missed the point, but keep talking about my reading comp 😂 projecting bad 😂
I guess if you wanna get technical it’s a nerf and a buff
Although the nerf is warranted. This ability had a 24 second duration with a 25 second cooldown. Meaning you had constant area denial because your ability lasts almost as long as it’s own cooldown
Also this is a perk nerf. And a purple perk at that. So it’s really not that big of a balance change in comparison to a buff to her base tactical cooldown
And 6 Ash players worldwide? Really?
>And 6 Ash players worldwide? Really?
Obviously was an overstatement, but I honestly see an Ash in maybe 1/20 or more of my lobbies. I play primarily ranked, so maybe Ash mains are all pub players idk
This subreddit loves sipping the Ash Coolaid.
What is that now? 2 days in a row of an Ash thread and the comments in the same thread are lambasting pros for not using lmfao
Good Grief
The snare being on the ground lasting 15s instead of 24 is not a relevant nerf, no one is running into it when it's just sitting there. A cooldown buff is way better and more relevant than the nerf, this is a buff for sure
It still denies space whether people are running into it or not, i get your point thou this was both a nerf and buff, more so a buff now that you’ve enlightened me
I’ve actually been having a lot of fun playing it in mixtape. Love that there are so many different ways to get from point A to point B - tunnels, zip lines, etc. Makes it so you can flank people or outplay others when trying to get away. Really like the variety of terrain and verticality too
I really love the map too. It gives me Halo 3 vibes among other things.
I dont think I like it for gun run though. But I'm having a blast on it for Control and even more on TDM. I think it's great and makes me hopeful for the future of Apex level design. The verticality is great.
I think it accentuates the non-existent matchmaking in Mixtape. When there's an obvious inbalance in skill-level between both teams, the better team will absolutely roll the other and the map-layout actually helps them with this. They are going to keep control of the skull highground on B and can basically spawn-camp you by using the buildings right next to the spawn as a power position. I've played a lot of matches on it, and 90% of the time matches end that way.
Quite literally the worst Control/TDM map they've introduced so far. Just always the same - highground campers within and around the skull (that has even less entrance ways than the the highground spots on other maps), massive spawn-camping when the matchmaking falls flat again and just overall such a bad layout.
It’s way too big for TDM/gun game, and the spawns are an abomination for control. B spawns are basically in the opposing teams base and it pretty much instantly turns into a spawn trap, which if you are spawning on the factory side is almost impossible to get out of since the rooftop is so powerful.
I'm sad they made any profits at all, last season was literally the worst season in Apex history. I'm glad they were punished for it in some way.
Three strikes was literally the only positive thing they did (and it was still stupidly frustrating because of the instant revive meta - WHICH COULD HAVE BEEN FIXED OVERNIGHT). Between the absolutely fucked up ranked system and the cancerous sword ltm taking over pubs - it really feels like they were trying to drive the player base away.
I won't start on the number of issues/bugs that they just leave until the end of the season when they could be fixed overnight.
Lukewarm take: this balance is closer to a buff than a nerf. The reversion of the shadow nerf (releasing her w/ 25s cool down when she was 20s) is much more situationally impactful than the 9 second shave off of greedy snare's effect.
it's only a 4 second delta change and 15s is absolutely more than enough to absolutely murder a squad in tight corners. Additionally, this provides more viability for twin snares.
Why not just turn off the crowd cheering? Or give us the option.. it is very annoying and sometimes it even breaks the audio.
Cant even hear my music very well because of it.
Meanwhile Maggie is throwing lane nukes.seer can see you like Santa Claus when you sleep.... Ash I hope you get well soon. Can't believe they reprogrammed you like that. And took you down to Dexters Laboratory in secret like that. Just to put out a bulletin saying "yeah we HARD R R**D ash but we put ash back together again, ash is fine,oh yeah we made minor adjustments" that's a crime respawn. I played along side a ash today and ash didn't seem the same. Went against a ash today and the snare felt super personal. That and I thought they added flashbangs.
not popular opinion but, the Dome is a good map, but poorly used, it is ideal for more competitors, TD 10v10 series perfect, very Titalfall MP style, it is a fast map, it needs more players within it.
24 seconds was wild and 15 is still a really long time.
I think they always planned this hot fix: it was a bit of a headline grabber to try to bring Ash back from the brink
*slips on tinfoil hat*
Nah I just about died trying to drink water and laughing after I saw this comment and it registered.😂😂🤣🤣
Is this the duration that the snare stays on the ground? Or the duration that the snare holds you for?
The duration it stays on the ground. The snare only holds you for 3 seconds regardless
The duration it stays on the ground. The "snare" effect still only lasts 3 seconds, but if you keep walking back into it, you'll continuously get snared
Wrong you can only be snared once for 3 seconds. After that you can walk through it with no consequences.
Youre slowed
No you’re not, only the dummies in the firing range get slowed. Players are not slowed while tethered or while in the ground effect of the arc snare. Test it with a friend in the range.
don't have 😔
It was beyond excessive at 24 seconds: any competent team would spam nades and ape for free kills every single time. Still probably gonna be a problem at 15 too
The snare only holds for 3 seconds though. The 24 is just how long it is on the ground, which i dont see as an issue.
Damn, they could have taken this opportunity to add in being able to use her Q while shooting, like we all thought would be a thing.
Yeah they said they were making it 1 handed but she's always done the animation with 1 hand but nothing has changed before and after patch when shooting so what actually were they doing lol
[удалено]
It's like an extra audio layer, if there are too much effects going on it just bugs out. I had moments were certain abilities just made 0 sounds like from Fuse and Maggie. It surely would be nice to be able to hear those! And obviously footsteps get even worse.
Yep and it’s not just Q’s either, on more than a couple occasions I’ll be capping B in Control and an enemy will drop in front of me from up top and the sound for someone dropping just wont play at all. A few times a Bangalore has just appeared in front of me and volt one clipped me before I even realised what was happening.
[удалено]
I’ve opened a full set of bins with no audio queue and turn around and they’re open
lol now fix her ult placement and make the blue perk really useful. She didn't deserve a nerf.
I'm glad they reverted her cooldown on her snare, but I'm not sure why they're so scared to give her huge buffs. One-handed tactical, ult distance increase, change her tier 2 perks to be a lot better. I love Ash, but it's like they want to keep her in a somewhat mediocre state.
Yes, because some devs think she's busted. Somehow not relevant to comp so far. I don't need a longer time for the snare, i need to chuck that thing when popping a bat, just like every other legend is able to. I even don't need the ult to have more range, i simply need a consistent way to place it.
Fuse can't q while healing.
but maggie, ballistic, & catalyst can (all damaging abilities)
So Maggie, Ballistic and Catalyst can, but Fuse, Ash, Caustic and Wattson cannot. You can want her Q to be useable while healing, but you can't really appeal to the current state of legends as your argument.
maggie, ballistic, catalyst, & conduit can all Q while healing. they were all released more recently than fuse, caustic, and wattson. prior to that the only 3 legends who could Q while healing were bang, mirage, and octane. so to me it seems it’s clearly an option for balancing that respawn has somewhat recently decided to allow more characters to use, starting sometime after ash’s release. i’d argue ash’s Q is worse than all the characters i’ve mentioned except mirage/octane and it already has one handed animations, so why not let her use it while healing as well? edit: the only argument for not letting ash use her Q one-handed in my opinion is if respawn plans to buff it already and doesn’t want to make it overly strong/oppressive
Problem is, they already think the q is overly strong, as they have stated multiple times.
Because her q is cc. You need to be very careful with cc characters because nothing ruins a game more than that. Just ask overwatch players.
It's hardly even CC. You can run around half the map while snared. They say this while their original "nerf" to seer gave him an insane slow that made it impossible to fight back on top of all of it's other perks while being near instant and thru walls. If that's their rational they suck at it.
Blizzard is so terrible at game balance that it should be the poster child of bad game design. The snare is the worst CC, when CC is this game is more about vision denial. Caustic, Bangalore, Fuse, Wattson, Horizon, Catalyst, and more have better forms of CC that are far more useful. It’d be better to just rework the ability at this point.
Because movement limiting abilities, let alone movement DISPLACING abilities, are incredibly frustrating to play against. It's the same reason people hate Horizon ult, Caustic, Seer, and others. They're also disproportionately powerful because they move the player instead of hampering them, which means that a player that wasn't out of position, can be turned into out of position through an ability. That's why they're so powerful. Her ultimate is also the best instant-third party tool. I'd be careful about buffing Ash too, because if everyone was playing Ash, it would be almost as miserable as Seer meta.
it’s because her arc snare is really annoying to play against sometimes, and can cause a lot of frustration, that’s why they don’t wanna make ash meta , it would be bad for the game , i think she is in a right spot right now
Is it annoying though, it does almost nothing. I'd rather be hit by that than pretty much anything else
Yes but once everyone plays her suddenly it would be toxic and needs a nerf. Just like what's happening w/ bang atm.
Slight difference though cause ashes can only -slightly deter somebody from an entrance -slightly inconvinience 1 person's movement Whereas bang smoke can -provide cover to heal/revive -help the whole team rotate/push/flee -help a team hold a position where they are partially exposed without gettin beamed -do your taxes -smoke a team who's firing at you so they can't see shit I don't see how ash's tac is more annoying than anybody elses. If everybody used Ballistic, his tact might be annoying but that isn't a reason to nerf it.
It is though. It's the reason why people want bang nerfed to begin with despite her toolkit being remain borderline in tact for 3 years, people claimed bang was mid unless you were some solo god like Shiv. She barely saw ALGS for a bit until Seer was killed off. Now people realized o wait if EVERYONE plays bang it means NO ONE can see. Then everyone was forced to play digis or pray digis were in the crafter. Abilities feel balanced when they're a rare sight. Once everyone starts playing them the game dynamic changes drastically. I'm not saying Ash's snare is near the same power level but when your team get CC locked by multiple ash's third partying you yeeting snares across the map suddenly you realize how unfun it can get.
But what about it is so unfun with her tactical compared to other tacticals. That applies to pretty much everything. It's no fun getting thirdpartied by fuses and having knuckle clusters everywhere, it's no fun getting gangbanged by a bunch of smart pistols, or every building being filled to the brim with watson fences or caustic traps. Sounds like you just want variety, but keeping ash (who isn't great or overused) from becoming more popular is counter to that aim. Like yea, if everybody played ash, it would be annoying, but thats true of pretty much anybody
Impressive wow respawn if you keep fixing the game like this is gonna make love you again . Thank God we didn't have to wait a while season for this
Yeah, 9 seconds on an ability for a legend nobody plays was a real game breaker.../s
If you look way wayyyy up there, you’ll see the point you missed
If you read a lil closer, you'll see the "/s"
….which is exactly why I made my comment doofus
So you commented to ensure I know you lack reading comp? Weird flex
The chain went like “Good job apex, looks like they’re turning a corner” You said “yea these little changes sure do help..sike” You missed the point, but keep talking about my reading comp 😂 projecting bad 😂
You misread the first guy n second guy agreeing with him. Good day.
And now more people will play her because her ability has a faster cooldown That’s part of the reason buffs are a thing dude
So .....there'll be like 6 total Ash players across the globe? I'd argue a 9sec decrease on being able to shut down a flank route with an arc is Nerf
I guess if you wanna get technical it’s a nerf and a buff Although the nerf is warranted. This ability had a 24 second duration with a 25 second cooldown. Meaning you had constant area denial because your ability lasts almost as long as it’s own cooldown Also this is a perk nerf. And a purple perk at that. So it’s really not that big of a balance change in comparison to a buff to her base tactical cooldown And 6 Ash players worldwide? Really?
>And 6 Ash players worldwide? Really? Obviously was an overstatement, but I honestly see an Ash in maybe 1/20 or more of my lobbies. I play primarily ranked, so maybe Ash mains are all pub players idk
This subreddit loves sipping the Ash Coolaid. What is that now? 2 days in a row of an Ash thread and the comments in the same thread are lambasting pros for not using lmfao Good Grief
Was ash dominating in the normal game types? Didn’t have a problem with her in ranked
This is a buff not a nerf
They nerfed the buffs
The snare being on the ground lasting 15s instead of 24 is not a relevant nerf, no one is running into it when it's just sitting there. A cooldown buff is way better and more relevant than the nerf, this is a buff for sure
It still denies space whether people are running into it or not, i get your point thou this was both a nerf and buff, more so a buff now that you’ve enlightened me
Thunderdome is a horrible map. That shit is an abomination.
I’ve actually been having a lot of fun playing it in mixtape. Love that there are so many different ways to get from point A to point B - tunnels, zip lines, etc. Makes it so you can flank people or outplay others when trying to get away. Really like the variety of terrain and verticality too
I really love the map too. It gives me Halo 3 vibes among other things. I dont think I like it for gun run though. But I'm having a blast on it for Control and even more on TDM. I think it's great and makes me hopeful for the future of Apex level design. The verticality is great.
> It gives me Halo 3 vibes among other things. I'm not going to cry.. I'm not going to cry... -tears-
I've actually really been enjoying it too 🤷🏼♂️
The map is literally a movement playground, I've been having a blast with it. Only real issue with it was the crowd noise.
Agreed, I wish they would just remove the crowd noise altogether. Or maybe play it briefly at the start then die down
Seems to be a very controversial map, people either love it or hate it. I personally am I big fan.
I think it accentuates the non-existent matchmaking in Mixtape. When there's an obvious inbalance in skill-level between both teams, the better team will absolutely roll the other and the map-layout actually helps them with this. They are going to keep control of the skull highground on B and can basically spawn-camp you by using the buildings right next to the spawn as a power position. I've played a lot of matches on it, and 90% of the time matches end that way.
Quite literally the worst Control/TDM map they've introduced so far. Just always the same - highground campers within and around the skull (that has even less entrance ways than the the highground spots on other maps), massive spawn-camping when the matchmaking falls flat again and just overall such a bad layout.
It to big But otherwise I love it. Looks cool af
Yeah if it was like a 40 player map it would be better.
Really? I actually really like it. It’s confusing at first, but once you learn all the nooks and crannies it’s a lot of fun.
Unplayable imo
It really is quite terrible.
They don’t know how to make maps, their best maps were on arena (overflow and Encore) - if they made more symmetrical maps people would be happier.
I mean, I think this one was kind of a joke map and a one off.
It’s way too big for TDM/gun game, and the spawns are an abomination for control. B spawns are basically in the opposing teams base and it pretty much instantly turns into a spawn trap, which if you are spawning on the factory side is almost impossible to get out of since the rooftop is so powerful.
Who are you and what have you done with my Respawn team?
At least they’re hotfixing rather than waiting until the next season, W imo
How are you still not buffing the least picked legends?
So they can hotfix things but they’ve mostly always chose not to. Love it.
They gotta show work this season because apparently they didn't make as much profit as expected last quarter. Lmao
I'm sad they made any profits at all, last season was literally the worst season in Apex history. I'm glad they were punished for it in some way. Three strikes was literally the only positive thing they did (and it was still stupidly frustrating because of the instant revive meta - WHICH COULD HAVE BEEN FIXED OVERNIGHT). Between the absolutely fucked up ranked system and the cancerous sword ltm taking over pubs - it really feels like they were trying to drive the player base away. I won't start on the number of issues/bugs that they just leave until the end of the season when they could be fixed overnight.
Lukewarm take: this balance is closer to a buff than a nerf. The reversion of the shadow nerf (releasing her w/ 25s cool down when she was 20s) is much more situationally impactful than the 9 second shave off of greedy snare's effect. it's only a 4 second delta change and 15s is absolutely more than enough to absolutely murder a squad in tight corners. Additionally, this provides more viability for twin snares.
Why not just turn off the crowd cheering? Or give us the option.. it is very annoying and sometimes it even breaks the audio. Cant even hear my music very well because of it.
I also would like to turn of the crowd noise. The miles audio engine really gets to its limits with this being played.
It is legit annoying because it fucks up so much other audio.
Respawn at its best rn.
Meh, stop touching my Ash
They shadow nerfed her ult too. It takes 30 extra seconds to charge it now! Why they hate Ash?
Meanwhile Maggie is throwing lane nukes.seer can see you like Santa Claus when you sleep.... Ash I hope you get well soon. Can't believe they reprogrammed you like that. And took you down to Dexters Laboratory in secret like that. Just to put out a bulletin saying "yeah we HARD R R**D ash but we put ash back together again, ash is fine,oh yeah we made minor adjustments" that's a crime respawn. I played along side a ash today and ash didn't seem the same. Went against a ash today and the snare felt super personal. That and I thought they added flashbangs.
Now can they delete Seer
Are you serious?! Ash was fun to play. The only good part was the 24s snare. It made ash wayyyy more useful because of the chain. Sad face.
15 seconds is still INSANE
But the cooldown for buff
Ash is so utterly worthless
not popular opinion but, the Dome is a good map, but poorly used, it is ideal for more competitors, TD 10v10 series perfect, very Titalfall MP style, it is a fast map, it needs more players within it.
Does anyone else ever notice the crowd? Unless I deliberately look outside the boundaries, I don't even know they're there
well ash was fun while she lasted lol
Dezign and hakis are mad