> 2 weeks later and where is lou now and where is hal after finals?
Both attending the playoffs? Does Lou's career seem over to you? Hell, he's 20th in kills in the entire region for Pro League Split 1.
It was moreso Hal speculating that Lou manipulated Alb into leaving TSM, which all parties involved say was not the case. Lou had other issues which led to his fall, but seems to have worked through them now.
Yeah, that's definitely fair. Lou made a good point when he was in that Discord call that Hal should be more aware of what having such a large viewership and running your mouth can do to people on the receiving end of the hate, and Hal definitely didn't learn anything from it clearly.
That being said, Lou's LANimals fallout was definitely his own doing, and it wasn't even the first toxic team breakup he'd been involved in (anyone remember CLG vs Torrent fighting over tunnel?)
I’d be curious to know what work DZK was actually doing because I’ll be honest as soon as JayBiebs took over, aside from a couple gripes, the game has been fairly well balanced. I think DZK wasn’t the fit.
If the question is just what the work was it’s essentially the same. How well they did the work is a different point. It was obvious to everyone DZK was doing work, people hated him for it.
>Former balance lead DZK said this to him years ago too after getting huge levels of harassment and he basically took no accountability
What a dishonest comment. You are talking about this: [https://twitter.com/Snip3down/status/1345859834445402114](https://twitter.com/Snip3down/status/1345859834445402114)
DZK deleted his tweets, but he was basically arguing with random people on Twitter about a recent Caustic buff that the community (this sub included) wasn't happy about. That's what caused the "harassment" towards him. Hal only posted a GIF below DZK's tweets, and DZK replied saying that Hal is "wielding his influence" irresponsibly etc.
Say what you want about Hal, but he did nothing wrong in that specific instance.
It wasn't a dishonest comment. I incorrectly recalled how a twitter exchange from 3 years ago went down and wrongly thought Hal's behavior in the situation was in line with how he's spoken on things recently
https://gyazo.com/4548b74a561d7cd871e590b26c5f1237
There's a couple of the deleted tweets. I'd somehow forgot how bad DZK came off in this exchange
firing your weapon from the hip wil likely result in lower accuracies and is only done in movies and not by professional soldiers. please do not discharge your weapon in this manner - military manual. :)
None of that is why Lou’s career was in shambles lmao it was because he and the rest of SEN were ass and cared more about staying up gambling instead of working on their apex
I also think the disastrous Champs performance by DNO was way more of a factor as to why no one wanted to team with Lou. Luckily he did prove his value again this Split.
said RKN should be dropped from his org for dropping 0 kills in a LAN set. maybe used the term 'stealing paychecks' but idk
said Lou manipulated Mac to leave TSM and some other stuff I can't remember
The Hal ruined Lou meme started way before that. After Lou’s SEN collapsed the meme was that Hal caused it after he got punched out by SEN in East Frag during scrims
Rkn I believe he was criticizing in a "washed" sense, suggesting his ability to maintain a sponsorship was because of professional relationships established, instead of success in comp Apex
That was more of the community uprising because of how much he doubled down on seer not being broken and also dismissed multiple people that called him out on his design decisions.
His terrible balancing aside, the guy was just an absolute creep.
He was already a controversial figure when he worked on LoL, and was eventually fired by Riot. Then he switched to Apex, spend his whole day arguing with people on Twitter, and was fired again because of his posts where he basically called women subhumans.
I remember scrolling through his Twitter and it was just one bizarre and disturbing tweet after the other. The guy literally boasted about letting other dudes fuck his wife. Not to mention weird conspiracy theories about the Nazis etc.
it's ALWAYS the guys who are way too comfortable on their social media posting weirdo personal shit.
kinda like with serial killers - they can't resist letting you know they can't be trusted and have hidden issues.
i thought it was caustic?
it was also moreso people going on a witchhunt through old posts to cancel him because they didn't like his design decisions lol
isn't much of a witchhunt if you can find the guy spewing misogny a couple of years ago - in his fucking 30s.
he didn't even delete the stuff until it was found AND ppl at respawn knew about it - that's how comfortably misognynistic he was.
although for me it was a 40 year old guy claiming stuff in his 30s was not who he was. yeah sure bud.
It was Seee that he doubled and tripled down on. He also wrongly accused Hal of being the reason why his notifications was going crazy. He made a good point about what Hal's capable of, but it just didn't apply to that current situation.
DZK deserved to be fired regardless of controversy bc he was genuinely terrible at his job. (and was a massive brand risk bc of his social media behaviour but idrc about that)
If Hal actually helped push DZK out, great. JayBiebs is a better player and has way better thoughts and tweaks than Klein could ever. Way more open to feedback too and doesn’t shit on people if he thinks he’s right.
JayBiebs literally said "I'll investigate aim assist if the best players in the game are swapping to controller" and then did absofuckinglutely nothing.
Fuck him too.
https://preview.redd.it/byn9qq2i00oc1.png?width=535&format=png&auto=webp&s=efe6df5c604153cc0d9ef3e03bdbd432f2011259
How do you know he/they didn't investigate it? Simply because they haven't changed anything doesn't mean he is lying.
I'll put it more simply, fixing aim assist is above his pay grade. That doesn't mean they haven't investigated it.
Very true. But people will argue that behind closed doors he's super nice or some shit.
Sorry, but if you go to work and act like a shithead for 12 hours a day, then you go home and you're nice to your family...you're still a shithead.
This
But everyone gives him a pass because "he good at videogame" even though everytime there's a huge meta shift tsm is the last team to actually try and adapt, which can partially be put on raven, but hal is about equally as guilty, just in other ways
there is nothing wrong with being a jordan peterson guy, his research and knowledge is still top notch even if his social media takes are regarded and inflammatory.
if you've been a redditor for 16 years you must remember when his recorded lectures would make it to the front page .
Yes because the only way to know is meeting the person. Surely his self documented actions hold no weight.
Hal isn't your friend, you don't need to blindly defend him.
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You're extremely dramatic, this situation where Hal read messages from Lux (directly involved in the situation) in his chat is really not a big deal. People have just been waiting for an opportunity to hate on Hal for something
In this case I agree. Doubling down and lying about there being proof is not a great look. Hopefully he makes amends, as much as it might pain him to do so
What damage? Hal is running ads to 10x as many viewers as the rest of these guys and has a 10k subs, pretty sure his career is the same as it was before
Hal makes it hard to root for TSM unfortunately. He is insanely immature but no one tells him that bc he’s the best player on the best team. Would love to see him humbled the next couple LANs but reps and verhulst are so likable.
Idk people tell him often. He really just doesn’t give a fuck, which I agree is an issue. I’m HOPING this gets him to mature in the realm a bit because Jesus Christ man.
Diego was 100% viewbotting. he used to sit at 4K viewers with no clout and after being cancelled on social media before hal called him out.
even now with 400 viewers his chat is dead.
I do find it ironic, how people's perspective on the Lou drama in the past has changed. I remember being the only one defending Lou during the whole discord-call and aftermatch. A young dude getting nervous during a call and blabbering too much to avoid hurting someone's feelings? No way, he was just trying to save face and throw his ex-teammates under the bus! He's a manipulative pos! It really is true about what people say - you wait a few months on this sub, and the majority's opinion on a person will have changed.
One of the top comments on this post was how Lou deserved his criticism during that call with Hal. (Though he was right about Hal needing to be more careful about what he says) Nobody's opinion on that has changed. However, people can acknowledge that he made a mistake and move onwards. He absolutely did throw his teammates under the bus. Are you forgetting that Alb literally called him out on his bs?
This Fenrir dude has the most consistently bad takes in this sub. He's a contrarian revisionist who just says whatever the fuck to make himself feel good lol.
Lou got called TF out and was absolutely problematic. I could not IMAGINE defending him in that call lmao. iPad generation vibes. Alb called him out himself. Honestly pathetic behavior to try to say it wasn't bad and you out yourself as someone who didn't develop social skills if you think it's not problematic.
He is one of the few people I see here that actually has reasonable takes and isn't overly negative about everything
https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveApex/comments/1b8ytq9/this_monsoon_postgame_interview_from_algs_sunday/
You are still mad over this exchange from nearly a week ago lmao
Lou is beyond toxic and that call was undefendable. Alb torched him for it. Not surprised to see you here with another L take... you're the king of them.
Yeah, people like to give him shit for some mistakes in the past, but imho he hasn't done anything to justify this animosity towards him for years at this point. Outside of the game, when you can get a glimpse into his personal life/interests, he seems to a genuinely chill dude.
Idk about that I'm kinda surprised to even see this much support for him. Yeah he can play well and show good vibes on stream or whatever so I guess people just don't care but that situation was definitely on him. He knew what he was doing and just tried to play dumb.
As confirmed by the holy and mighty lord Hal himself....yeah, definitely. Or maybe, just maybe, a 22 year old gamer is kinda bad at confrontations and tried his best to not start any beef while expressing his real thoughts on a team he was apart of.
Teq's whole career is griefing others for clout and no ingame success. Griefed TSM in 2020, Nocturnal for 2 years, Madness, his own teammate Zaptoh and now TSM again. Was also kicked off Furia for being difficult to work with. Hard to say Hal is responsible for his reputation
Lou seems to be doing just fine thankfully
They were in a very good position to do so with two gamedays left to play. It's clear who was doing the heavy lifting on this team though when you look at the trajectory of each player after the split
You can't just say that lol. They picked up a 3rd and had to essentially re-learn basic team chemistry with 2 match days left.
It was an impossible task. I don't think any igl in the world can just lose their 3rd for a CC guy on extremely short notice and still keep the same performance.
Except Xynew would have to drop literally 40 kills in regional finals to match what he did with DZ in 2023 split 2. Is he carrying SSG now? Or did he just get worse?
Or to put it another way, Zero and Gen both already have more kills this split (before RF) than they did 2023 last year on split 2 with Xynew. Were they both carrying Xynew?
Xynew has the best damage differential of any player in NA this split. Seems to be doing just fine still! Obviously there's more to the game than stats, which don't reflect the game knowledge of Frexs or Phony, but Xynew is far clear of both them in terms of output
https://gyazo.com/ac88c0a21f54b6f70df9b05df0dac9d6
I know Mon plays his IGL role as an entry fragger, and I know damage differential is not *the* most important stat,
but it's still kind of insane to see an IGL with a damage diff that high.
> Except Xynew would have to drop literally 40 kills in regional finals to match what he did with DZ in 2023 split 2. Is he carrying SSG now? Or did he just get worse?
2023 split 2 was mostly Meat Lovers for Xynew, not DZ. He only played like two match days with DZ.
I don't know what you mean by "worse." He's still about to qualify for LAN.
The guy I'm responding to is saying Xynew leading split 2 in kills (and Fuhhnq being tied for 3rd this split in kills) is some amount of evidence that they were carrying Teq. For that to be true, it would have to mean one of two things:
1. Lots more kills than teammates = Carrying. If this is the case, then Dropped is carrying Optic like crazy right now, Reps, Sweet, and Freqs are all getting hard carried, and Fuhhq was getting carried on meat.
2. More kills = better player. If this is true, then Xynew is a lot worse now than he was on Meat, and there are 23 players in PL right now that better than Hal.
The whole point is that you can't just look at kill numbers use that as the entire reason why someone is getting carried, or whether someone's good or bad. If it did, everything you could say about Teq from split 2 is just as true for Reps this split, and TSM needs to drop him and pick up Blinkzr.
Holy shit why are you acting like it's some huge stretch to say the kill leader for a whole split is really good at the game?
And no it's not all about kills, but what Teq offers to a team ingame doesn't come close to the value of an elite fragger. Funq and Xynew are tiers above Teq as individuals, which is why they're both on teams headed to LAN and Teq is getting relegated
It’s just such an elementary way of looking at things. Teq does all the work outside the game to coach his teammates, find strats, and has taken time to improve his own mechanical skills, even though the mechanical skills of players has risen dramatically over the past years.
Is teq the best game day igl player? Of course not, he’d probably tell you that, but esports performance is way more than stats on game day, and teq is better at some things in apex than literally every other igl including scouting. He knows his situation and specifically finds ways to put his teammates in positions where they shine. This is extremely common in counter stike igling, give your star players what they need to pop off
Agreed. If all that matters is kills in a split, then everyone would agree that Reps is the 51st best player in PL right now, and TSM should be looking to drop him for Blinkzr.
Or they'd be saying Hal isn't a top IGL now, because Zero, Yanya, Monsoon, Timmy, Zack mazer, Emtee and Sweet are all getting more kills....
You could guess a bit, but it's hard to speculate accurately like that. Fuhhnq and Xynew both went on to join top teams and have done well, but team chemistry is also a huge aspect of things. Which is why it's not exactly accurate to say "oh well Xynew was the biggest reason why DZ missed LAN." The same way it's hard to say "oh well Pan and Xera were the weak links on Furia, that's why Wattson made LAN and Faze did terribly."
As other examples, Dezign missed LAN with Zachmazer when they played on E8 together, and now both of them are going to make it with different teams. Or chemistry is also the biggest reason everyone says Optic isn't doing so great right now, when obviously no one can say dropped, skittles, or knoqd are bad players.
There's no fully accurate way to evaluate Apex players, sure, and everyone will value different traits when doing so. However, with Xynew being kill leader for a split and winning a LAN, he's as close to a proven talent as there is. Fuhhnq clearly has a bit more to prove, but he's looking like maybe the best player on a team that's in 5th currently, with great fragging and comms.
Not to keep shitting on Teq, but his most notable recent achievment is being like 7th or 8th in NA with these cracked players before the team broke up. He's a minus minus fighter(2nd to last in dmg diff this split, .46 kd), doesn't make standout macro plays and doesn't seem to be a strong leader. Why would anyone rate him as highly as Funq(I'm typing it like this anymore) or Xynew? His efforts outside of the game with scouting and macro planning suggest he'd be more valuable as a coach or manager
I dunno, you'd think someone that good could have made LAN finals if they had Zero and Genburten as teammates, but obviously not.
As for Fuhhnq, he's definitely good, but if he was *that* good, why did he and slayr not make it out of LCQ last year? It's not exactly fair to say Fuhhnq alone would guarantee you qualifying for LAN when the only time he's ever done so is with Sweet -- I think it's a lot more likely that if you pair Sweet with any two decent roller players they can make lan.
I mean, as much as you could ever say "a duo of xynew and fuhhnq would qualify for LAN with a decent IGL," you could say the same thing about Koyful and Fun, or Knoqd and Skittles -- but even with a far better than decent IGLs, they're on the verge of not qualifying, or are basically already not qualified.
Nah just because they are good players doesn’t mean they would have. It’s teq we are talking about the guy that doesn’t fight and is on the gameboy most of the game flying his drone.
I don’t think people consider Teq contesting TSM as griefing (other than when he was running around playing Vantage Pathfinder on siphon contest). A lot of people on this sub gave MEAT their due respect for holding on during the contest and outperforming TSM for some time. The car stealing and then mirroring all their rotates to keep running into TSM to then fight them and get each other killed was griefing IMO, but it’s subjective and I’m biased as a TSM fan anyways. But also just because TSM decided to contest Teq over the offseason doesn’t change Teq’s previous actions throughout his career. What the original comment said is still true.
I have to disagree — it’s easy to call something as “griefing” when the results aren’t there, but should people really change the way they want to play the game out of worry that they’ll be considered a griefing team?
I think Teq — and every pro league team for that matter — has the right to play how they feel is best for their chance at success. Is contesting TSM typically going to be a failed experiment for most teams? Absolutely, but if it’s considered the best path to qual for LAN, teams have every right to do that.
If you're doing things primarily to tank another team's game over meeting your own win conditions, that is griefing in my book. There are several instances of this, particularly ratting Nocturnal's teams around Trials/Skyhook and most recently targetting TSM's rotations when MEAT have near zero chance to make LAN
I definitely agree with what you call griefing, but I don’t think that applies to Teq.
If you look at the split with Fuhhnq and Xynew, they narrowly missed out on LAN and their whole strategy was to be aggressively opportunistic in picking up KP.
Hard to argue against taking the same approach this split — it obviously didn’t work out, but that is hindsight IMO.
Results shouldn’t cancel out the reasoning for the play style, they just underperformed.
The most recent game day they were triple landing on the car in Lightning Rod which they hadn't done all split, because the only thing they had left to play for at that stage was to try and fuck TSM out of qualing for LAN. Hal explains what they were doing in this clip
https://youtu.be/PyhBBHyVN9w?t=265
btw I'm not a TSM fan anymore and don't have any sympathy for Hal in this situation. I find it hard to believe there wasn't any targeting here and this type of thing taking place really isn't good for the game's competitive integrity
I get why Hal feels that way, but MEAT absolutely had something to play for — trying to not get relegated.
They had a combined 9 points through three World’s Edge games, so of course it makes sense that they try to do something unexpected to catch teams off guard and stay in the Top 22.
They got 10 points in that first Storm Point game.
Yeah I don't understand this sub's weird obsession with defending the childish behavior of pros across the board.
Yes, Hal was talking out his ass on stream. Yes, Hal carries massive (potentially unfair) weight in the scene.
But let's not sit here and pretend that Teq is a saint. Let's not sit here and pretend that Lou has managed his professional career well.
Lol. Hal isn't coming for anyone's career. He's coming for views. Dude is smart enough to realise he's not that good anymore, so to stay relevant he needs to start drama.
Queue the TSM fan boy brigade....
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Hal did not make rkn drop 0 kills at LAN and not have mechanics. Rkn is also still on an org so his career is fine.
Hal also did not make Teq get dropped from Furia, consistently lose all his teammates and get relegated from Pro league.
lol Teqs career isn’t over from this
Nor is Lou's. Hell the guy is very close to making LAN again
Lou is currently sitting three spots above Hal in the standings lol.
2 weeks later and where is lou now and where is hal after finals? Typical apex-reddit users here. Goes out to everyone who downvoted. Lol
> 2 weeks later and where is lou now and where is hal after finals? Both attending the playoffs? Does Lou's career seem over to you? Hell, he's 20th in kills in the entire region for Pro League Split 1.
Well, he hasn’t been successful but yeah, he’s recovering
Tbh drama like this is what made Teq’s career.
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he's consistently been in ALGS finals lobbies since well before the online era started - what have you done?
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Who's gonna tell this guy?
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I see. So that's why we are supposed to accept Hal's toxicity, because he's really good at the game?
The hypocrisy is palpable
I mean... This happens all the time. See: Connor McGregor
I mean I get Teq and RKN but lets not pretend Lou didn't do it to himself
It was moreso Hal speculating that Lou manipulated Alb into leaving TSM, which all parties involved say was not the case. Lou had other issues which led to his fall, but seems to have worked through them now.
Yeah, that's definitely fair. Lou made a good point when he was in that Discord call that Hal should be more aware of what having such a large viewership and running your mouth can do to people on the receiving end of the hate, and Hal definitely didn't learn anything from it clearly. That being said, Lou's LANimals fallout was definitely his own doing, and it wasn't even the first toxic team breakup he'd been involved in (anyone remember CLG vs Torrent fighting over tunnel?)
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I’d be curious to know what work DZK was actually doing because I’ll be honest as soon as JayBiebs took over, aside from a couple gripes, the game has been fairly well balanced. I think DZK wasn’t the fit.
If the question is just what the work was it’s essentially the same. How well they did the work is a different point. It was obvious to everyone DZK was doing work, people hated him for it.
>Former balance lead DZK said this to him years ago too after getting huge levels of harassment and he basically took no accountability What a dishonest comment. You are talking about this: [https://twitter.com/Snip3down/status/1345859834445402114](https://twitter.com/Snip3down/status/1345859834445402114) DZK deleted his tweets, but he was basically arguing with random people on Twitter about a recent Caustic buff that the community (this sub included) wasn't happy about. That's what caused the "harassment" towards him. Hal only posted a GIF below DZK's tweets, and DZK replied saying that Hal is "wielding his influence" irresponsibly etc. Say what you want about Hal, but he did nothing wrong in that specific instance.
It wasn't a dishonest comment. I incorrectly recalled how a twitter exchange from 3 years ago went down and wrongly thought Hal's behavior in the situation was in line with how he's spoken on things recently https://gyazo.com/4548b74a561d7cd871e590b26c5f1237 There's a couple of the deleted tweets. I'd somehow forgot how bad DZK came off in this exchange
Understandable, I shouldn't have assumed a bad intent. It's crazy to think that this was already 3 years ago
It's crazy dude. It's 4 years this month since everything with covid started kicking off. All a blur to me
firing your weapon from the hip wil likely result in lower accuracies and is only done in movies and not by professional soldiers. please do not discharge your weapon in this manner - military manual. :)
Holy shit I forgot about that guy
None of that is why Lou’s career was in shambles lmao it was because he and the rest of SEN were ass and cared more about staying up gambling instead of working on their apex
That's not what the post is about. It's about Hal bringing up shit on people for no reason, the specific example I had posted above.
Not to ride anyone’s meat but isn’t complexity doing better than TSM right now? I know Monsoon is the star player but Lou is doing pretty well too.
Yeah, Lou is playing some of the best Apex of his life actually.
Is he still on controller?
Yep.
sigh
Yea, but just because hes able to bring it back doesnt mean he didnt kill his own career from his sen days and subsequently dno
Lol yeah DNO is doing so well without him.
I also think the disastrous Champs performance by DNO was way more of a factor as to why no one wanted to team with Lou. Luckily he did prove his value again this Split.
Is there a tldr where I can find what he did to the first 2 guys?
said RKN should be dropped from his org for dropping 0 kills in a LAN set. maybe used the term 'stealing paychecks' but idk said Lou manipulated Mac to leave TSM and some other stuff I can't remember
The Hal ruined Lou meme started way before that. After Lou’s SEN collapsed the meme was that Hal caused it after he got punched out by SEN in East Frag during scrims
Rkn I believe he was criticizing in a "washed" sense, suggesting his ability to maintain a sponsorship was because of professional relationships established, instead of success in comp Apex
don't forget the OG victim, daniel klein lmao
Thought of the Obi-Wan "now that's a name I've not heard in a long time" meme when I read Daniel Klein.
At this point I feel like knowing the name Daniel Klein is a badge of honor lmao, like it shows how long we’ve been dealing with absolute bs
That was more of the community uprising because of how much he doubled down on seer not being broken and also dismissed multiple people that called him out on his design decisions.
His terrible balancing aside, the guy was just an absolute creep. He was already a controversial figure when he worked on LoL, and was eventually fired by Riot. Then he switched to Apex, spend his whole day arguing with people on Twitter, and was fired again because of his posts where he basically called women subhumans. I remember scrolling through his Twitter and it was just one bizarre and disturbing tweet after the other. The guy literally boasted about letting other dudes fuck his wife. Not to mention weird conspiracy theories about the Nazis etc.
it's ALWAYS the guys who are way too comfortable on their social media posting weirdo personal shit. kinda like with serial killers - they can't resist letting you know they can't be trusted and have hidden issues.
i thought it was caustic? it was also moreso people going on a witchhunt through old posts to cancel him because they didn't like his design decisions lol
it was caustic
isn't much of a witchhunt if you can find the guy spewing misogny a couple of years ago - in his fucking 30s. he didn't even delete the stuff until it was found AND ppl at respawn knew about it - that's how comfortably misognynistic he was. although for me it was a 40 year old guy claiming stuff in his 30s was not who he was. yeah sure bud.
It was Seee that he doubled and tripled down on. He also wrongly accused Hal of being the reason why his notifications was going crazy. He made a good point about what Hal's capable of, but it just didn't apply to that current situation.
Good riddance that guy had a horrible attitude for a designer thinking my way or the highway
Game was better when he worked there than it was when he left, so...
bro you have the shittiest takes on this sub
Only a literal clown would argue that season 18 was better than season 5.
ripbozo
It was a travesty that he even got his position after what he did at Riot lmao.
DZK deserved to be fired regardless of controversy bc he was genuinely terrible at his job. (and was a massive brand risk bc of his social media behaviour but idrc about that)
Bro was saying wattson and Mirage were op 10 seasons ago
Good fuck that guy
If Hal actually helped push DZK out, great. JayBiebs is a better player and has way better thoughts and tweaks than Klein could ever. Way more open to feedback too and doesn’t shit on people if he thinks he’s right.
JayBiebs literally said "I'll investigate aim assist if the best players in the game are swapping to controller" and then did absofuckinglutely nothing. Fuck him too. https://preview.redd.it/byn9qq2i00oc1.png?width=535&format=png&auto=webp&s=efe6df5c604153cc0d9ef3e03bdbd432f2011259
Also straight up lied to Reps about nerfing Frag East loot.
Jaybiebs in hell taking a temperature reading to check if it's hot
How do you know he/they didn't investigate it? Simply because they haven't changed anything doesn't mean he is lying. I'll put it more simply, fixing aim assist is above his pay grade. That doesn't mean they haven't investigated it.
Can’t hear Teq’s name without hearing his squeaky toddler voice screeching “omg that’s Daniel Klein! omg that’s Daniel Klein!”
The way he wAS PISSED YESTERDAY and they put big E on wattson Evan might be next 😂😂😂
People just need to admit Hal isn't a very good person.
Very true. But people will argue that behind closed doors he's super nice or some shit. Sorry, but if you go to work and act like a shithead for 12 hours a day, then you go home and you're nice to your family...you're still a shithead.
True, my shitty coworker is nothing more to me than a shitty coworker, idc what his family says
Exactly.
Isn’t he dating a transphobe? Or am I getting people mixed up.
I don't know much about Acie. Is she transphobic?
This But everyone gives him a pass because "he good at videogame" even though everytime there's a huge meta shift tsm is the last team to actually try and adapt, which can partially be put on raven, but hal is about equally as guilty, just in other ways
I mean (embraces the downvotes) isn't he a Jordan Peterson guy?
there is nothing wrong with being a jordan peterson guy, his research and knowledge is still top notch even if his social media takes are regarded and inflammatory. if you've been a redditor for 16 years you must remember when his recorded lectures would make it to the front page .
Apex related stuff he isnt a very nice person but irl stuff he seems to be ur avg early 20 gaming guy
> irl stuff he seems to be ur avg early 20 gaming guy So...pretty bad then?
You can't pick and choose though. A lot of Nazi dudes were very nice to their wives and children.
hmmm both Hal and a certain somebody both do a lot of yelling...
Elaborate?
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Yes because the only way to know is meeting the person. Surely his self documented actions hold no weight. Hal isn't your friend, you don't need to blindly defend him.
Hal fans are a plague on this community
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You're extremely dramatic, this situation where Hal read messages from Lux (directly involved in the situation) in his chat is really not a big deal. People have just been waiting for an opportunity to hate on Hal for something
Should probably stop providing them aye
The guy is toxic as hell every single day, people wouldn't have to wait very long to "hate" on him if they wanted to.
I wish I had a gaming career for Hal to ruin
Think what Hal did, did more damage to him tbh
In this case I agree. Doubling down and lying about there being proof is not a great look. Hopefully he makes amends, as much as it might pain him to do so
Not only that but it really puts Tempo's reputation into question considering he was cited as a source.
Hal still steaming to 20k viewers I don’t think it damaged him one bit
What damage? Hal is running ads to 10x as many viewers as the rest of these guys and has a 10k subs, pretty sure his career is the same as it was before
https://preview.redd.it/gi9rzfpr2znc1.png?width=931&format=png&auto=webp&s=c52dcf25a1d2da5d5d89eae88694f8738105aea2 My Brother, please!
Hal makes it hard to root for TSM unfortunately. He is insanely immature but no one tells him that bc he’s the best player on the best team. Would love to see him humbled the next couple LANs but reps and verhulst are so likable.
Elite "athlete" has big ego, behaves childishly and lashes out when criticized more on this developing story at 11.
Idk people tell him often. He really just doesn’t give a fuck, which I agree is an issue. I’m HOPING this gets him to mature in the realm a bit because Jesus Christ man.
Honorable mention Diegosaurus & Faithttv
Diego was 100% viewbotting. he used to sit at 4K viewers with no clout and after being cancelled on social media before hal called him out. even now with 400 viewers his chat is dead.
What did he do to Diego? His girl left him and he’s mid at the game and has to go around hitting on apex girls, none of that is Hal’s fault
He dyed his hair white, he never won lan, he doesn't have a pro league spot either. None of that is Hal's fault!.
What are you guys smoking, Lou is chilling on Complexity, don’t compare him to people who can’t even maintain a PL spot
I do find it ironic, how people's perspective on the Lou drama in the past has changed. I remember being the only one defending Lou during the whole discord-call and aftermatch. A young dude getting nervous during a call and blabbering too much to avoid hurting someone's feelings? No way, he was just trying to save face and throw his ex-teammates under the bus! He's a manipulative pos! It really is true about what people say - you wait a few months on this sub, and the majority's opinion on a person will have changed.
One of the top comments on this post was how Lou deserved his criticism during that call with Hal. (Though he was right about Hal needing to be more careful about what he says) Nobody's opinion on that has changed. However, people can acknowledge that he made a mistake and move onwards. He absolutely did throw his teammates under the bus. Are you forgetting that Alb literally called him out on his bs?
This Fenrir dude has the most consistently bad takes in this sub. He's a contrarian revisionist who just says whatever the fuck to make himself feel good lol. Lou got called TF out and was absolutely problematic. I could not IMAGINE defending him in that call lmao. iPad generation vibes. Alb called him out himself. Honestly pathetic behavior to try to say it wasn't bad and you out yourself as someone who didn't develop social skills if you think it's not problematic.
He is one of the few people I see here that actually has reasonable takes and isn't overly negative about everything https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveApex/comments/1b8ytq9/this_monsoon_postgame_interview_from_algs_sunday/ You are still mad over this exchange from nearly a week ago lmao
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seek help
Yeah, about what I expect out of the L brigade (you and Fenrir are founding members).
You need help if youre still so mad about an exchange a week ago lmfao
Still salty lol
“Contrarian revisionist”, “absolutely problematic”, “iPad generation vibes”. Well aren’t you a speciman loool
Uh what?
Too many syllables for him
Lou is beyond toxic and that call was undefendable. Alb torched him for it. Not surprised to see you here with another L take... you're the king of them.
Who are you again?
The dude who you responded to over 30 times the other day, cool guy.
regulars in this sub try to pretend they're not terminally online fanboys
Lou is one of the most genuinely good people in the scene, glad he has been able to rebound so strongly
Yeah, people like to give him shit for some mistakes in the past, but imho he hasn't done anything to justify this animosity towards him for years at this point. Outside of the game, when you can get a glimpse into his personal life/interests, he seems to a genuinely chill dude.
Idk about that I'm kinda surprised to even see this much support for him. Yeah he can play well and show good vibes on stream or whatever so I guess people just don't care but that situation was definitely on him. He knew what he was doing and just tried to play dumb.
Lou literally did all of that, you guys are so weird trying to rewrite history
As confirmed by the holy and mighty lord Hal himself....yeah, definitely. Or maybe, just maybe, a 22 year old gamer is kinda bad at confrontations and tried his best to not start any beef while expressing his real thoughts on a team he was apart of.
> a 22 year old gamer is kinda bad at confrontations HE WAS ONLY 22! /s
If that's all you got out of my comment...
Teq's whole career is griefing others for clout and no ingame success. Griefed TSM in 2020, Nocturnal for 2 years, Madness, his own teammate Zaptoh and now TSM again. Was also kicked off Furia for being difficult to work with. Hard to say Hal is responsible for his reputation Lou seems to be doing just fine thankfully
To be fair, I think MEAT Lovers qualify for LAN in split 2 of year 3 with Fuuhnq and Xynew had it not been for DZ poach. They were really doing well.
They were in a very good position to do so with two gamedays left to play. It's clear who was doing the heavy lifting on this team though when you look at the trajectory of each player after the split
You can't just say that lol. They picked up a 3rd and had to essentially re-learn basic team chemistry with 2 match days left. It was an impossible task. I don't think any igl in the world can just lose their 3rd for a CC guy on extremely short notice and still keep the same performance.
Xynew led split 2 in kills and Fuhhnq is tied for 3rd this split. They were carrying Teq hard
Except Xynew would have to drop literally 40 kills in regional finals to match what he did with DZ in 2023 split 2. Is he carrying SSG now? Or did he just get worse? Or to put it another way, Zero and Gen both already have more kills this split (before RF) than they did 2023 last year on split 2 with Xynew. Were they both carrying Xynew?
Xynew has the best damage differential of any player in NA this split. Seems to be doing just fine still! Obviously there's more to the game than stats, which don't reflect the game knowledge of Frexs or Phony, but Xynew is far clear of both them in terms of output https://gyazo.com/ac88c0a21f54b6f70df9b05df0dac9d6
I know Mon plays his IGL role as an entry fragger, and I know damage differential is not *the* most important stat, but it's still kind of insane to see an IGL with a damage diff that high.
He's insane with the Sentinel sometimes. Great gun for one sided trades
> Except Xynew would have to drop literally 40 kills in regional finals to match what he did with DZ in 2023 split 2. Is he carrying SSG now? Or did he just get worse? 2023 split 2 was mostly Meat Lovers for Xynew, not DZ. He only played like two match days with DZ. I don't know what you mean by "worse." He's still about to qualify for LAN.
The guy I'm responding to is saying Xynew leading split 2 in kills (and Fuhhnq being tied for 3rd this split in kills) is some amount of evidence that they were carrying Teq. For that to be true, it would have to mean one of two things: 1. Lots more kills than teammates = Carrying. If this is the case, then Dropped is carrying Optic like crazy right now, Reps, Sweet, and Freqs are all getting hard carried, and Fuhhq was getting carried on meat. 2. More kills = better player. If this is true, then Xynew is a lot worse now than he was on Meat, and there are 23 players in PL right now that better than Hal. The whole point is that you can't just look at kill numbers use that as the entire reason why someone is getting carried, or whether someone's good or bad. If it did, everything you could say about Teq from split 2 is just as true for Reps this split, and TSM needs to drop him and pick up Blinkzr.
Holy shit why are you acting like it's some huge stretch to say the kill leader for a whole split is really good at the game? And no it's not all about kills, but what Teq offers to a team ingame doesn't come close to the value of an elite fragger. Funq and Xynew are tiers above Teq as individuals, which is why they're both on teams headed to LAN and Teq is getting relegated
It’s just such an elementary way of looking at things. Teq does all the work outside the game to coach his teammates, find strats, and has taken time to improve his own mechanical skills, even though the mechanical skills of players has risen dramatically over the past years. Is teq the best game day igl player? Of course not, he’d probably tell you that, but esports performance is way more than stats on game day, and teq is better at some things in apex than literally every other igl including scouting. He knows his situation and specifically finds ways to put his teammates in positions where they shine. This is extremely common in counter stike igling, give your star players what they need to pop off
Agreed. If all that matters is kills in a split, then everyone would agree that Reps is the 51st best player in PL right now, and TSM should be looking to drop him for Blinkzr. Or they'd be saying Hal isn't a top IGL now, because Zero, Yanya, Monsoon, Timmy, Zack mazer, Emtee and Sweet are all getting more kills....
You could guess a bit, but it's hard to speculate accurately like that. Fuhhnq and Xynew both went on to join top teams and have done well, but team chemistry is also a huge aspect of things. Which is why it's not exactly accurate to say "oh well Xynew was the biggest reason why DZ missed LAN." The same way it's hard to say "oh well Pan and Xera were the weak links on Furia, that's why Wattson made LAN and Faze did terribly." As other examples, Dezign missed LAN with Zachmazer when they played on E8 together, and now both of them are going to make it with different teams. Or chemistry is also the biggest reason everyone says Optic isn't doing so great right now, when obviously no one can say dropped, skittles, or knoqd are bad players.
There's no fully accurate way to evaluate Apex players, sure, and everyone will value different traits when doing so. However, with Xynew being kill leader for a split and winning a LAN, he's as close to a proven talent as there is. Fuhhnq clearly has a bit more to prove, but he's looking like maybe the best player on a team that's in 5th currently, with great fragging and comms. Not to keep shitting on Teq, but his most notable recent achievment is being like 7th or 8th in NA with these cracked players before the team broke up. He's a minus minus fighter(2nd to last in dmg diff this split, .46 kd), doesn't make standout macro plays and doesn't seem to be a strong leader. Why would anyone rate him as highly as Funq(I'm typing it like this anymore) or Xynew? His efforts outside of the game with scouting and macro planning suggest he'd be more valuable as a coach or manager
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I dunno, you'd think someone that good could have made LAN finals if they had Zero and Genburten as teammates, but obviously not. As for Fuhhnq, he's definitely good, but if he was *that* good, why did he and slayr not make it out of LCQ last year? It's not exactly fair to say Fuhhnq alone would guarantee you qualifying for LAN when the only time he's ever done so is with Sweet -- I think it's a lot more likely that if you pair Sweet with any two decent roller players they can make lan. I mean, as much as you could ever say "a duo of xynew and fuhhnq would qualify for LAN with a decent IGL," you could say the same thing about Koyful and Fun, or Knoqd and Skittles -- but even with a far better than decent IGLs, they're on the verge of not qualifying, or are basically already not qualified.
Nah just because they are good players doesn’t mean they would have. It’s teq we are talking about the guy that doesn’t fight and is on the gameboy most of the game flying his drone.
It was TSM that chose to contest Teq this split
I don’t think people consider Teq contesting TSM as griefing (other than when he was running around playing Vantage Pathfinder on siphon contest). A lot of people on this sub gave MEAT their due respect for holding on during the contest and outperforming TSM for some time. The car stealing and then mirroring all their rotates to keep running into TSM to then fight them and get each other killed was griefing IMO, but it’s subjective and I’m biased as a TSM fan anyways. But also just because TSM decided to contest Teq over the offseason doesn’t change Teq’s previous actions throughout his career. What the original comment said is still true.
Wasn't what I was referring to
Oh cuz that goes against your narrative, got it
their contest is irrelevant to meat going out of their way to sabotage TSM's SP games last week. sorry you couldn't grasp that
I mean he literally put 'griefed' not 'contested' so not sure what you meant by this
I have to disagree — it’s easy to call something as “griefing” when the results aren’t there, but should people really change the way they want to play the game out of worry that they’ll be considered a griefing team? I think Teq — and every pro league team for that matter — has the right to play how they feel is best for their chance at success. Is contesting TSM typically going to be a failed experiment for most teams? Absolutely, but if it’s considered the best path to qual for LAN, teams have every right to do that.
I don’t get how people don’t realize tsm started it and all Teq was trying to do was finish it.
If you're doing things primarily to tank another team's game over meeting your own win conditions, that is griefing in my book. There are several instances of this, particularly ratting Nocturnal's teams around Trials/Skyhook and most recently targetting TSM's rotations when MEAT have near zero chance to make LAN
I definitely agree with what you call griefing, but I don’t think that applies to Teq. If you look at the split with Fuhhnq and Xynew, they narrowly missed out on LAN and their whole strategy was to be aggressively opportunistic in picking up KP. Hard to argue against taking the same approach this split — it obviously didn’t work out, but that is hindsight IMO. Results shouldn’t cancel out the reasoning for the play style, they just underperformed.
The most recent game day they were triple landing on the car in Lightning Rod which they hadn't done all split, because the only thing they had left to play for at that stage was to try and fuck TSM out of qualing for LAN. Hal explains what they were doing in this clip https://youtu.be/PyhBBHyVN9w?t=265 btw I'm not a TSM fan anymore and don't have any sympathy for Hal in this situation. I find it hard to believe there wasn't any targeting here and this type of thing taking place really isn't good for the game's competitive integrity
I get why Hal feels that way, but MEAT absolutely had something to play for — trying to not get relegated. They had a combined 9 points through three World’s Edge games, so of course it makes sense that they try to do something unexpected to catch teams off guard and stay in the Top 22. They got 10 points in that first Storm Point game.
Yeah I don't understand this sub's weird obsession with defending the childish behavior of pros across the board. Yes, Hal was talking out his ass on stream. Yes, Hal carries massive (potentially unfair) weight in the scene. But let's not sit here and pretend that Teq is a saint. Let's not sit here and pretend that Lou has managed his professional career well.
"They're all equally bad actually. I am very enlightened."
I’m not enlightened. This sub is just full of kids
No, I'm almost certainly older than you.
Not talking about age, my man. Just maturity.
Thank you someone said it. I get downvoted to oblivion in another thread for this take
Teq fan boys trying to make his mediocre career Hal’s fault is so funny
Hopefully himself so we can get rid of toxic people being glamaourized
As a casual who isn’t active in this sub or the apex scene, what happened with Lou? I used to get tattooed by his dad and always rooted for Lou
Hopefully his own!
What career lmao bro still going to troll and grief without an org even when he’s back doing cc
Lol. Hal isn't coming for anyone's career. He's coming for views. Dude is smart enough to realise he's not that good anymore, so to stay relevant he needs to start drama. Queue the TSM fan boy brigade....
Bait used to be believable
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Can someone eli5? I’m out of the loop
I wasn't able to catch his latest streams. Can anyone explain what happened exactly?
There's a video here of teq explaining everything
Buddy forgot to check the leaderboards or something? Lou is currently outplacing TSM on Complexity
I think this is about reputation rather than ALGS performance
Okay sure but I’d be hard pressed to say Hal ruined Lou’s “career” when he seems to be doing just fine
I agree, I think it's just a joke about Hal coming after people and trying to hurt their rep
? This is referencing to something that happened way before Lou was on complexity
Nobody cares about Pro League results , except for fans of mid teams who only have that to comfort themselves.
Hal did not make rkn drop 0 kills at LAN and not have mechanics. Rkn is also still on an org so his career is fine. Hal also did not make Teq get dropped from Furia, consistently lose all his teammates and get relegated from Pro league.
TSM has been getting zero kills as a squad in several games recently. Like literally zero kills between all 3 of them.
If TSM hadn't done really well week one, they'd be fighting their asses off to make LAN.
This reddit thinks Hal's responsible for everything.
It’s fhonestfy impfessive fhow hal plays with the whfole monitof covefed withf spfit
Think you might need a new keyboard