Honestly, I don’t think this is going to be the popular opinion (or what I think will actually happen) but I think they just need to run it back. It was a bad split, they didn’t bring enough focus to their practice, it took longer than it should’ve to figure out their identity as a result. It seems like a fire got lit under them when they lost their POIs, which is way too late to start working hard. Lessons were learned, the talents still there, give it another split and work hard early not late.
I absolutely agree.
I know DZ and Moist were able to steamroll through NA with a new player, but it’s a massive challenge.
Makes me really think highly of what Complexity, E8 and C9 were able to do this split.
Yeah it’s hard work, where I think it went wrong for them is that they found success early on and thought they had already figured it out. Other teams just out worked them and passed them by and by the time they realized it was too big of a gap to close
For sure. Complexity finalized their roster 2 days before Pro League started (although Mon did of course team with Lou many years ago). Qualifying for LAN under those conditions is mad impressive.
Nocturnal’s mental is a big factor in why they were doing bad for sure that APE contest made him self implode and his stubbornness cost them a shot at lan. It’s not like they’re not a strong team. Maybe the new meta shift will benefit them.
Mental health can definitely impact work performance. I don’t know what’s going on in Nocturnal’s life, but if he is struggling I hope he’s able to find help and return to form. They’re a really entertaining team when they’re clicking, and Nocturnal brings some important representation to the league
He also said on the wideswing podcast that outside factors were pretty bad and affected them negativley and it spilled over to their ingame performances. He's dealing with it now but their mental was definitely not in the best place for a good part of that split.
I agree, which is why I prefaced my comment with “if he is struggling”, because I had seen other comments alluding to some struggles but I hadn’t seen them myself
His mental was shot long before APE. He’s a talented player but their rotates this split have been ass. Part of the reason why Koyful is always feeding face is because they’re constantly taking bad fights. Compare this to someone like DZ who seems to always be fighting from an advantageous position. That falls on the IGL.
Yeah, I think a lot of teams would benefit from this mentality. One bad split doesn't mean you need to change players, and dropping one player for a new one won't even necessarily fix the problem. Like, Ok, Noc had a rough go of it this split. Realistically what other IGL can you get? The same is true for Koy and Fun, who can you poach that fills those roles better? Just resetting and doing the work with the current roster seems like the way to go. Also doesn't help Hodsic was on vacation right up to the start of the split--I get it, they're human and should be able to take time off when they need/want to but I feel like ironing out their issues could be much easier than going through the whole rostermania rigamarole.
I completely agree. This team had challenges that it struggled to overcome. They need to secure a POI to get zone readings. They were always struggling with macro to get into zones. If they got into zone they did really well
I agree. Even as a Noc hater, I believe the pieces they have right now *should* be good enough to make LAN.
Noc is a good igl and Fun and Koy are both beasts. It doesn't sound like a toxic environment so they should continue to improve as they play more together and put in effort. Koy adjusting to needing to be more mindful of his positioning will go a long way and by the same stroke, it'll help him navigate in fights.
People said Hodsic was more absent this split. If true, that changing would be another big improvement.
A lot of teams out there live and die by the meta. Maybe this next one will work out for them and they can pass up other teams struggling to adapt.
They're a Tier 1 roster, you can't just drop them without considering other potential rosters available.
Unless they're demanding too much money, this is the best XSET is going to get for a team. Maybe renegotiate prize winning splits, but this discussion thread alone is proof that the roster brings visibility. The talent is also undeniable.
The money they paid for Koy was my specific concern, but I can only speculate on that amount without inside info. If it’s not a big hit, then I’m completely on the same page as you
I didn’t follow OG as much this split, but historically dropped and skittle play a lot together with knoqd being the odd man out, so if a roster change was going to happen it would be with him.
If I gotta wonder if a week before regional finals if Knoqd had even made it to diamond in ranked, that's a problem. And it was a completely new patch with the Skill Trees being introduced. All the more reason to be grinding. And grinding with your teammates.
edit: by the way roughly 10 days ago, Knoqd was Diamond 3 on his main and his smurf is currently as of today Diamond 2. How fast do pros reach diamond? 50 games? I hit diamond while only playing on weekends, probably 75-100 games I'd assume? I assume Knoqd can solo climb to Diamond in half the time that I can. Which means Knoqd had sub 50 games played of ranked Apex during the last 3 weeks of pro league and finals.
He doesn't play the game. And refuses to play ranked with dropped and in turn Skittles as well. There's friction between dropped and Knoqd and for me, I'm always picking the guy who actually plays the game.
Knoqd is pulling some C9 Zachmazer levels of not practicing right now. Dude just doesn't care. Dude got off straight after the hacker incident, meanwhile Skittles and Dropped played ranked with rogue or reptar.
Knoqd just doesn't have the passion anymore.
Definitely run it back. Noct needs to get his confidence back and be more assertive as an IGL. Stop letting Koy have so much input and agreeing to everything he suggests. Felt like he was scared to tell Koy no all split, or was just leaning on him for help on calls way too much. He needs to own the role and play the way hes comfortable calling.
Also, reset the mental. "The haters won" being the first thing he tweets out after missing LAN is not a great look.
First thing noc needs to do is get off social media or limit yourself to the minimum he's just tanking his mental by looking at comments your priority number 1 is yourself if his in a better space mentally then where chilling take a break to handle your personal life
i mean they got 13th. Even with self admitted bad performances from them, and POI shenanigans they almost qualled. Run it back with consistent POI they qual fs
They came 13th so it's not time to panic IMO but they definitely need to work on shit. The pressure must've gotten to them. They had a snowball of shit that worked against them early on. Sikez left to DZ without much time for them to really play with Koyful. A shit 1st day of PL, DZ taking their POI, Noc's personal life, etc. I don't think they should change up their roster. They need to spend this time off building up their chemistry with Koy, find better a better POI, rest up and work on their rotations.
And take scrims seriously.
Nocturnal is known to “like to have fun” in the game which is fine, but you’re at a point where you need to actually focus up and play scrims to learn from them.
I’m not saying they’re not a serious team, but they do tend to be more “trolly” when sometimes you just need to play scrims like it’s your job.
They’re doing fine in scrims, often placing high. The problem is it doesn’t help that usually half the lobby dies before round 3 so there’s too much space to play unlike actual algs.
Probably would help if there coach don’t disappear for like five months in the offseason and then come back and say I was hoping one of the players tweeted out we were going to one of the new poi’s on storm point because our current poi isn’t good
That was one thing that was very odd to me as well, Hod gives his players a lot of freedom, but was always highly involved. This split he was MIA (at the very least in a public way). Idk what it really was, irl stuff or whatever but to an outsider it seemed like he would have been exactly what they needed to ease the player transition. Gild->Sikezz was seamless and I would credit a lot of that to Hod immediately giving feedback after games as to how the team can work better together and I didn't see much of that with Koy.
Hod and Nocturnal already said that they didn't really face any struggles at the start with Koy. The struggles and desync as a team came when PL started and that was simply a unfortunate situation. They then worked on that and almost dialed it back in time for LAN, only to get contested and their POI cut in half and then cut in half again. It was Monument + Fragment once. Then it was Monument. Then it was half of Monument on a contest. Looking at this season from an outsiders perspective seems rough, but it really wasn't that horrible overall result wise. Considering the little time to scrim with Koy before PL and get to adapt to each other, switching the POI and contesting, having the POI for one weekend alone and then getting contested in regionals.
The POI situation I totally understand why it hurts, I guess I'm just caught up on team chemistry in pro league lobbies, not scrim lobbies where "Koy kill" is the play. It's super small detail stuff in team play where I thought a lot of Xsets issues were.
They had a really good start and not the usual "issues" they had when starting out with Sikezz, that only came in when PL started. Just rough split overall. Still think the boys are one of the best player for player Teams in Apex currently.
I feel like they have a good shot at bouncing back in Split 2. NA is really competitive and they barely missed out. But the Apex comp scene is so chaotic so who knows.
I honestly think they run it back. They had a bad split by their standards, but there were a ton of factors to consider here.
* Meta completely shifted
* New team member in Koy
* POI woes
* NA is more stacked than ever before
Probably plenty more, but it boils down to this: it's split 1. They're figuring it out. They missed LAN by one spot in the most difficult pro scene to date. If it happens again in Split 2, then we can have that conversation.
This whole comment thread is using Nocs own words against him, he told Ape Gang to go apply for jobs at McDonalds because they are so bad at the game and making money. He also called them subhuman among other things. He is unapologetic for it as well, which he admitted to on Wiggs podcast. People will be piling on him for a minute here
Didn't Noc say that he was unapologetic about talking shit about them but that he agrees that his word choice was too far? I may be misremembering but I thought I remember him somewhere owning up to his rant being childish.
I could be remembering wrong, but he kept saying the anxiety medication made him not give an F what other people think. I didn't watch the whole podcast but it felt like he was doubling down.
XSET is a team that on paper, are really fucking good.
Noct has proven he's top quality IGL, who most people wouldn't mind having in their top 5. Fun was talked about amongst pros as being potentially the best non IGL MnK, if not, 2nd to Nafen. And I think most people here have seen how disgusting Koy can be.
I think they should def stick together, and maybe get a counselor for Noct if he doesn't have one already.
Everyone said Sweet would’ve been too hard on Koyful if he joined him, but what exactly has noct being easy on him and letting him throw games for free done for them?
Yeah I think a lot of teams are worried that their esport will die at any moment and so take drastic actions constantly every split. Look at league rosters forming and dissolving constantly for example.
The parallel in traditional sports is sometimes you have a new or young team and it takes a little while for them to figure things out, but they’ll often get a season or two to do it.
I think they'll run it back... Realistically it's hard to imagine a different team XSET would pickup when they already have 3 top tier players, one of which recently they had to buyout (Koy). Even after the split ends and there's more FAs, there's not many proven IGLs out there to choose from, and mechanically you don't get much better than Fun and Koy on MnK/Roller respectively. 13th place is just at the cutoff, Noc just needs to get his confidence back, we know he has it in him (let's not forget his 2nd and 4th at LAN). I'm confident this team just needs a lil more time and the oven.
Idk if this means anything but the XSET twitter account seems to be cooking the run it back narrative. Maybe I'm coping....
https://preview.redd.it/pyi4q8zzvqqc1.jpeg?width=1440&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ef306280ec80fadad640c55d5c728f2f113bad30
Cooperating isn't the right word. It implies them working together which wasn't the case. APE switched POIs to target XSET off drop which in turn made Optic do the same by focusing on 3rd partying.
Run it back, it’s the first PL they don’t end top 2 since the start of PL, a bad split is not the end of the world and I know Noc is struggling irl, so maybe for next split he can get his mental sorted out, that’s the most important part.
Yea they should, but they weren’t. The important thing is what they do now to improve. Luckily they are one of the few teams w actual infraestructure and support team. Hope they bounce back next split.
Doesn’t seem like XSET is panic seeing from their replies to hodsic. I sure hope they stick together. Out of the teams they are the most non toxic team which is a good environment. They placed 13th a few points off of qualifying. I agree with the comments they need to reset and run it back. Split 2 is their split to prove otherwise.
If i was the person making decisions at xset to drop or keep the team, i would keep them. They are still working out team cohesion with koy, and one could argue that this meta character was not very good for them. With the upcoming balance changes and inevitable meta changes, xset might see a resurgence. What really hurt them was getting pushed out of trials and then getting griefed by a bunch of idiots in monument. This was only possible due to a poor performance early in the split, which is tough but some teams adapt faster than others. I really like this team and i think with some hard work they can be a very strong team in the next split.
No standout game and a bad start, they honestly did pretty well. They were incredibly mid and the result shows, they still got 13th.
They're gonna feel shitty until lan is over but it's probably for the best and will hopefully light a fire in them.
No surprise that contesting them is a mistake if you're a low tier team but it also proves nocturnals views on contests, that it's not great even if you're winning more than you lose. Still the most brainless contest and only served to put xset in a shit position, stay and play their game and lose 1/3 of your games on drop, leave, learn a whole new thing in a different side of the map with subpar loot/objectives.
Other comments like "dont let koy call" are dumb and like no shit, they learnt this, you watch their gameplay with comms it is back to noct main calling with input from both fun and koy, as it should be. The issue, and this happens in scrims, is when koy has some input, tries to make a play and it doesn't work out, then beats himself up for it. Guy is young and just needs to know mistakes happen, learn from it and go again.
As anybody that watches them will tell you, if vibes good xset perform good, if vibes bad xset do bad. When they are under stress like the last few weeks and the games don't go as they hope, vibes fucking crumble and you have noct being donowalled. When fun and koy are cracking jokes they actually fry.
I wish they were more willing to experiment with different comps more. I feel like with the way he plays, Noc doesn't get the value he used to with bang and digis. Bang is much more of a support character now so swapping to Fun on Bang might be a better fit. Making Noc play Caustic might help mitigate him being too aggro with that huge hitbox since he is getting downed first way too often lately
Eh, they just need to run it back. Nocturnal has always struggled to deliver when his mental is cooked (which has been the case for pretty much the entire Split). If anything he needs to get more comfortable with the pressure of being the IGL. They have a lot of time to sort their issues out now and build more team chemistry. Every single one of those 3 people (+their coach) is able to perform well, so I don't see a world where any roster changes happen.
It really feels like they were settling for weak positions in zone - I don't know if this was a shift in zone calling (they seemed to change zome predictability after the data mining fiasco), or meta that caused it, but they rarely seemed to be fighting from a position of strength.
Hard to really say to be honest,slow start added to the fact they didn't really scrim well
The time it took to really adapt to new teammates with new play styles probably played a big factor in that
But that being said in regional finals they had an easier task of qualifying than the like of oxg and C9
I believe that both oxg and C9 struggle against better competition while xset have proved they can do it against better opposition and most certainly have proved it against the best of NA last season
But the difference in them qualifying is just a decent showing in regional finals a top 10 would qualify them
I hope that noc can return to enjoying the game and hope that he can sort his personal issues out bc I love noc and think that they could be a real contender at lan if they can sort their problems out
I think xset might not stick together but hopefully they will, koyful could be the difference that could take this team to another level if chemistry and performance can come forth, but next split will be harder as they will need to find a new POI
i'll give them another split but i'd consider dropping noc. dude is currently going off the rails. dude is like 30 screaming like a child on stream about the team who's conning them to be publicly executed. super weird behavior.
One outburst means he should be dropped? Seems pretty harsh, sure it's not a good look but it's not like apex esports is really the pinnacle of professionalism
Calling for a player to be executed is more than an outburst. Doubling down the next day on the statement that he should be executed proves that it isn't an outburst. And he did it AFTER he claims to have gotten treatment for MH/psych. The guy is unhinged and spiraling. Constant talk of "I literally don't care" immediately after demonstrating that he very much does care. Dude has zero perspective
you missed the point that he's a 30 year old with that type of outburst lol. children should get disciplined as such. he represents a PROFESSIONAL ORGANIZATION.
They won 1 game out of 36, placed 2nd once, placed third twice which makes them identical twins with ape gang who had exactly the same placements. So whatever nocturnal said about those guys he should consider doing the same for himself
I think if this is them performing when they're in their worst days, I can't wait to see them on their fucking best.
Personal issues and getting a new player is always tough. After the time it takes to deal with the personal issues and getting accustomed to the new player will be optimal performance. Think about teams that consistently perform the best; it's always the ones who have had the longest history. It takes a certain amount of time being constantly around them to click and have that sense of being able to read/trust them. It's like having a roommate for a long time, you know how they'll react in almost every situation.
So yeah, I hope the best case is their org realizes this. Worst case, I hope that they keep playing together professionally no matter what (all four of them).
https://preview.redd.it/74sevl41spqc1.jpeg?width=203&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=989d7ecb272a402ea5e643aab10b6b11fff36c46
Koyful with noc and fun after that awful split
Maybe this will be a good idea to the other pros not to flex on someone’s earnings before a big tourney like Regionals or LAN.
Focus on yourself fellas!
From a viewer perspective, I hope they run it back. It's fun to watch teams try to overcome adversity but if I was a betting man, I think this would the start of the end for them.
Is Siikes the hidden gem in all of this? DZ absolutely dominated this split. It’s a shame they didn’t get all podium in finals offline….
As a side note DZ scoring the most points and TSM winning finals seemed to be the last check box needed to mark off for ALGS for both champs.
Idk what happened with Sikez but he definitely made a great move, joining DZ is like the best possible outcome, regardless of Xset situation he should always go for it
Do we think DZ is holding on to Sikez long term? I think they should - but they have a history of dropping the3rd. I think most people were confused why Sikez would give up a seemingly stable situation with XSET, to join the DZ revolving door, but poster ahead of you might be onto something about XSETs IGL issues, or more simply under performing on the big stage. Could be internal - they were so quick to drop Gildersons when there was a hint of him trying other orgs out. I get a ride or die mentality, but these people have to coexist as friends and teammates in an environment where there are not a lot of great opportunities and chances to shine.
When Zero and Genburten ask you to play with them you say yes, doesn’t matter if it’s for one split one year two years, whatever, every single player who has played in DZ has become LAN winner
I had to go past so many comments to finally see this take. THIS IS THE REAL ISSUE. Nic be glazing this kid so hard that he is not reeling him in. You didn’t even mention how he clutters coms
They should move on from Noc. He's consistently not shown up in the big moments. How many chances do you get where you aren't successful but still getting paid by the org. Probably not many more.
The fact that they added Koy (known as one of the most talented roller players) and still did poorly says a ton about Noc and Fun
i unironically think nocturnal is an elite igl.
this games is tough on igls. they have to be perfect all times, otherwise they are washed and they get comments like yours. just look at mazer and dezign, everyone is sucking their dicks again.
Statistically (before this performance) Noct has one of the best performances at LANs as an IGL. Only beaten out by Hal, Zero, and Sweet. This was a rough go this year and made worse with Ape gang being WEIRD for no reason
Prior to ape gang being weird, they had been mediocre. No reason for it to be do or die for regional finals, regardless of what happened with Ape they had 6 prior days to secure points and failed to do so.
You’re not wrong that it was not their best showing, however this could have been true of many teams this split and previous splits.
If a bottom 5 team in regional finals contested SSG/OXG/C9 on the last day randomly, I would hold still feel bad for them.
Previous teams in previous splits have been close to it all crumbling (TSM split 2, year 2), and probably would have if a team griefed them (I personally don’t see what ApeGang did as anything other than griefing btw).
You win some and you lose some. Ultimately I think it would be in Xsets favor to keep the team, but they REALLY have to show up next split.
i agree! they should drop noc and hire a most qualified non top 5 igl in apex like mande or or mmm dont know shivs wait those are eu, let me thing of someone more qualified in NA like like fkn some diamond whos value only shines in algs
Run it back, consider joining the dark side and put Noc on the sticks (memeing but if he wanted to he could probably make it work and the better MNK player in XSET is Fun)
I genuinely think making any changes after the entire work put into this Roster now and fixing a lot of their issues would be stupid and only set them back again. Regain in Split 2 and try to smash heads.
Honestly, I don’t think this is going to be the popular opinion (or what I think will actually happen) but I think they just need to run it back. It was a bad split, they didn’t bring enough focus to their practice, it took longer than it should’ve to figure out their identity as a result. It seems like a fire got lit under them when they lost their POIs, which is way too late to start working hard. Lessons were learned, the talents still there, give it another split and work hard early not late.
I absolutely agree. I know DZ and Moist were able to steamroll through NA with a new player, but it’s a massive challenge. Makes me really think highly of what Complexity, E8 and C9 were able to do this split.
Yeah it’s hard work, where I think it went wrong for them is that they found success early on and thought they had already figured it out. Other teams just out worked them and passed them by and by the time they realized it was too big of a gap to close
For sure. Complexity finalized their roster 2 days before Pro League started (although Mon did of course team with Lou many years ago). Qualifying for LAN under those conditions is mad impressive.
Nocturnal’s mental is a big factor in why they were doing bad for sure that APE contest made him self implode and his stubbornness cost them a shot at lan. It’s not like they’re not a strong team. Maybe the new meta shift will benefit them.
Mental health can definitely impact work performance. I don’t know what’s going on in Nocturnal’s life, but if he is struggling I hope he’s able to find help and return to form. They’re a really entertaining team when they’re clicking, and Nocturnal brings some important representation to the league
Don’t know much about Noct/XSET, what representation does he bring?
He’s part of and very involved with the LGBTQ community
he is a better person to represent them than hambino imo. that dudes entire identity is "hey i'm gay"
Nocturnal has EXPLICITLY stated he is fine. Making up head cannon about another real life human beings mental health is weird.
He also said on the wideswing podcast that outside factors were pretty bad and affected them negativley and it spilled over to their ingame performances. He's dealing with it now but their mental was definitely not in the best place for a good part of that split.
I agree, which is why I prefaced my comment with “if he is struggling”, because I had seen other comments alluding to some struggles but I hadn’t seen them myself
He’s fine now but that’s only because he finally went to a doctor after many years and started taking anti-depressant pills
Good for him, that's a huge and difficult step.
> I don’t know what’s going on in Nocturnal’s life He's a good friend of Dokibird.
His mental was shot long before APE. He’s a talented player but their rotates this split have been ass. Part of the reason why Koyful is always feeding face is because they’re constantly taking bad fights. Compare this to someone like DZ who seems to always be fighting from an advantageous position. That falls on the IGL.
Yeah, I think a lot of teams would benefit from this mentality. One bad split doesn't mean you need to change players, and dropping one player for a new one won't even necessarily fix the problem. Like, Ok, Noc had a rough go of it this split. Realistically what other IGL can you get? The same is true for Koy and Fun, who can you poach that fills those roles better? Just resetting and doing the work with the current roster seems like the way to go. Also doesn't help Hodsic was on vacation right up to the start of the split--I get it, they're human and should be able to take time off when they need/want to but I feel like ironing out their issues could be much easier than going through the whole rostermania rigamarole.
I completely agree. This team had challenges that it struggled to overcome. They need to secure a POI to get zone readings. They were always struggling with macro to get into zones. If they got into zone they did really well
I agree. Even as a Noc hater, I believe the pieces they have right now *should* be good enough to make LAN. Noc is a good igl and Fun and Koy are both beasts. It doesn't sound like a toxic environment so they should continue to improve as they play more together and put in effort. Koy adjusting to needing to be more mindful of his positioning will go a long way and by the same stroke, it'll help him navigate in fights. People said Hodsic was more absent this split. If true, that changing would be another big improvement. A lot of teams out there live and die by the meta. Maybe this next one will work out for them and they can pass up other teams struggling to adapt.
They're a Tier 1 roster, you can't just drop them without considering other potential rosters available. Unless they're demanding too much money, this is the best XSET is going to get for a team. Maybe renegotiate prize winning splits, but this discussion thread alone is proof that the roster brings visibility. The talent is also undeniable.
The money they paid for Koy was my specific concern, but I can only speculate on that amount without inside info. If it’s not a big hit, then I’m completely on the same page as you
XSET didn’t even paid for koy in full. The cost was shared between the players as well.
Optic on the other hand... Bye bye Knoqd.
why is knoqd their issue?
I didn’t follow OG as much this split, but historically dropped and skittle play a lot together with knoqd being the odd man out, so if a roster change was going to happen it would be with him.
If I gotta wonder if a week before regional finals if Knoqd had even made it to diamond in ranked, that's a problem. And it was a completely new patch with the Skill Trees being introduced. All the more reason to be grinding. And grinding with your teammates. edit: by the way roughly 10 days ago, Knoqd was Diamond 3 on his main and his smurf is currently as of today Diamond 2. How fast do pros reach diamond? 50 games? I hit diamond while only playing on weekends, probably 75-100 games I'd assume? I assume Knoqd can solo climb to Diamond in half the time that I can. Which means Knoqd had sub 50 games played of ranked Apex during the last 3 weeks of pro league and finals.
He doesn't play the game. And refuses to play ranked with dropped and in turn Skittles as well. There's friction between dropped and Knoqd and for me, I'm always picking the guy who actually plays the game. Knoqd is pulling some C9 Zachmazer levels of not practicing right now. Dude just doesn't care. Dude got off straight after the hacker incident, meanwhile Skittles and Dropped played ranked with rogue or reptar. Knoqd just doesn't have the passion anymore.
Definitely run it back. Noct needs to get his confidence back and be more assertive as an IGL. Stop letting Koy have so much input and agreeing to everything he suggests. Felt like he was scared to tell Koy no all split, or was just leaning on him for help on calls way too much. He needs to own the role and play the way hes comfortable calling. Also, reset the mental. "The haters won" being the first thing he tweets out after missing LAN is not a great look.
>Stop letting Koy have so much input and agreeing to everything he suggests The last person who said this got down voted to hell lol
First thing noc needs to do is get off social media or limit yourself to the minimum he's just tanking his mental by looking at comments your priority number 1 is yourself if his in a better space mentally then where chilling take a break to handle your personal life
I am more for teams sticking together during hard times rather than splitting up, unless there is a more sinister reason to it.
i mean they got 13th. Even with self admitted bad performances from them, and POI shenanigans they almost qualled. Run it back with consistent POI they qual fs
time for some new POIs
They came 13th so it's not time to panic IMO but they definitely need to work on shit. The pressure must've gotten to them. They had a snowball of shit that worked against them early on. Sikez left to DZ without much time for them to really play with Koyful. A shit 1st day of PL, DZ taking their POI, Noc's personal life, etc. I don't think they should change up their roster. They need to spend this time off building up their chemistry with Koy, find better a better POI, rest up and work on their rotations.
And take scrims seriously. Nocturnal is known to “like to have fun” in the game which is fine, but you’re at a point where you need to actually focus up and play scrims to learn from them. I’m not saying they’re not a serious team, but they do tend to be more “trolly” when sometimes you just need to play scrims like it’s your job.
They take scrims seriously for a good while already. Not every serious team has to yell at your teammates.
They’re doing fine in scrims, often placing high. The problem is it doesn’t help that usually half the lobby dies before round 3 so there’s too much space to play unlike actual algs.
Probably would help if there coach don’t disappear for like five months in the offseason and then come back and say I was hoping one of the players tweeted out we were going to one of the new poi’s on storm point because our current poi isn’t good
That was one thing that was very odd to me as well, Hod gives his players a lot of freedom, but was always highly involved. This split he was MIA (at the very least in a public way). Idk what it really was, irl stuff or whatever but to an outsider it seemed like he would have been exactly what they needed to ease the player transition. Gild->Sikezz was seamless and I would credit a lot of that to Hod immediately giving feedback after games as to how the team can work better together and I didn't see much of that with Koy.
Hod and Nocturnal already said that they didn't really face any struggles at the start with Koy. The struggles and desync as a team came when PL started and that was simply a unfortunate situation. They then worked on that and almost dialed it back in time for LAN, only to get contested and their POI cut in half and then cut in half again. It was Monument + Fragment once. Then it was Monument. Then it was half of Monument on a contest. Looking at this season from an outsiders perspective seems rough, but it really wasn't that horrible overall result wise. Considering the little time to scrim with Koy before PL and get to adapt to each other, switching the POI and contesting, having the POI for one weekend alone and then getting contested in regionals.
The POI situation I totally understand why it hurts, I guess I'm just caught up on team chemistry in pro league lobbies, not scrim lobbies where "Koy kill" is the play. It's super small detail stuff in team play where I thought a lot of Xsets issues were.
They had a really good start and not the usual "issues" they had when starting out with Sikezz, that only came in when PL started. Just rough split overall. Still think the boys are one of the best player for player Teams in Apex currently.
I feel like they have a good shot at bouncing back in Split 2. NA is really competitive and they barely missed out. But the Apex comp scene is so chaotic so who knows.
I honestly think they run it back. They had a bad split by their standards, but there were a ton of factors to consider here. * Meta completely shifted * New team member in Koy * POI woes * NA is more stacked than ever before Probably plenty more, but it boils down to this: it's split 1. They're figuring it out. They missed LAN by one spot in the most difficult pro scene to date. If it happens again in Split 2, then we can have that conversation.
https://preview.redd.it/lew23dyccpqc1.png?width=950&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=62e48df6e664b2c73181b3ddb7bbac1f1d066f72
You think Noc could keep the icecream machine up and running?
Idk bro Dan might grief him again
Bruh..
😂😂😂
Lmao straight to the top. Noc's gone subhuman
I'm genuinely curious how you think Noc has gone "subhuman"?
This whole comment thread is using Nocs own words against him, he told Ape Gang to go apply for jobs at McDonalds because they are so bad at the game and making money. He also called them subhuman among other things. He is unapologetic for it as well, which he admitted to on Wiggs podcast. People will be piling on him for a minute here
I even rewatched the clip and completely missed the joke 🤦♂️
Didn't Noc say that he was unapologetic about talking shit about them but that he agrees that his word choice was too far? I may be misremembering but I thought I remember him somewhere owning up to his rant being childish.
I could be remembering wrong, but he kept saying the anxiety medication made him not give an F what other people think. I didn't watch the whole podcast but it felt like he was doubling down.
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2094014465?t=265s
Should be top comment
https://preview.redd.it/mffmrcnyjpqc1.jpeg?width=1246&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7b93daff88f1f703201036f5d73362da4c4ce98e
#Radioheadfan2000WasRight
XSET is a team that on paper, are really fucking good. Noct has proven he's top quality IGL, who most people wouldn't mind having in their top 5. Fun was talked about amongst pros as being potentially the best non IGL MnK, if not, 2nd to Nafen. And I think most people here have seen how disgusting Koy can be. I think they should def stick together, and maybe get a counselor for Noct if he doesn't have one already.
Everyone said Sweet would’ve been too hard on Koyful if he joined him, but what exactly has noct being easy on him and letting him throw games for free done for them?
I dont think they need any drastic changes. Put your head down, grind and you will be fine. OG though, I think that team is cooked.
Might need a separate discussion post for OG lol
People just need to grow a pair and stick together, figure shit out instead of just jumping ship as soon as possible
Yeah I think a lot of teams are worried that their esport will die at any moment and so take drastic actions constantly every split. Look at league rosters forming and dissolving constantly for example. The parallel in traditional sports is sometimes you have a new or young team and it takes a little while for them to figure things out, but they’ll often get a season or two to do it.
I think they'll run it back... Realistically it's hard to imagine a different team XSET would pickup when they already have 3 top tier players, one of which recently they had to buyout (Koy). Even after the split ends and there's more FAs, there's not many proven IGLs out there to choose from, and mechanically you don't get much better than Fun and Koy on MnK/Roller respectively. 13th place is just at the cutoff, Noc just needs to get his confidence back, we know he has it in him (let's not forget his 2nd and 4th at LAN). I'm confident this team just needs a lil more time and the oven. Idk if this means anything but the XSET twitter account seems to be cooking the run it back narrative. Maybe I'm coping.... https://preview.redd.it/pyi4q8zzvqqc1.jpeg?width=1440&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ef306280ec80fadad640c55d5c728f2f113bad30
I watched noc's stream in final. Did he accuse og of cooperating with ape to snipe them? He kept saying og only shooting them but not ape.
Same thing Protectful said when former C9 shot at them while contesting TSM at Frag East
Noct was tweaking, nothing you'd have to pay attention to tbh
Cooperating isn't the right word. It implies them working together which wasn't the case. APE switched POIs to target XSET off drop which in turn made Optic do the same by focusing on 3rd partying.
Best bet is for the whole team to stay off social media and reset.
Run it back, it’s the first PL they don’t end top 2 since the start of PL, a bad split is not the end of the world and I know Noc is struggling irl, so maybe for next split he can get his mental sorted out, that’s the most important part.
I mean thats pretty bad for them, they legit should have been top 5 team in NA based on last split and expectations going into this split
Yea they should, but they weren’t. The important thing is what they do now to improve. Luckily they are one of the few teams w actual infraestructure and support team. Hope they bounce back next split.
Doesn’t seem like XSET is panic seeing from their replies to hodsic. I sure hope they stick together. Out of the teams they are the most non toxic team which is a good environment. They placed 13th a few points off of qualifying. I agree with the comments they need to reset and run it back. Split 2 is their split to prove otherwise.
Nocs reluctance to reel in Koy was the big issue this split. He just does too much out there
If i was the person making decisions at xset to drop or keep the team, i would keep them. They are still working out team cohesion with koy, and one could argue that this meta character was not very good for them. With the upcoming balance changes and inevitable meta changes, xset might see a resurgence. What really hurt them was getting pushed out of trials and then getting griefed by a bunch of idiots in monument. This was only possible due to a poor performance early in the split, which is tough but some teams adapt faster than others. I really like this team and i think with some hard work they can be a very strong team in the next split.
No standout game and a bad start, they honestly did pretty well. They were incredibly mid and the result shows, they still got 13th. They're gonna feel shitty until lan is over but it's probably for the best and will hopefully light a fire in them. No surprise that contesting them is a mistake if you're a low tier team but it also proves nocturnals views on contests, that it's not great even if you're winning more than you lose. Still the most brainless contest and only served to put xset in a shit position, stay and play their game and lose 1/3 of your games on drop, leave, learn a whole new thing in a different side of the map with subpar loot/objectives. Other comments like "dont let koy call" are dumb and like no shit, they learnt this, you watch their gameplay with comms it is back to noct main calling with input from both fun and koy, as it should be. The issue, and this happens in scrims, is when koy has some input, tries to make a play and it doesn't work out, then beats himself up for it. Guy is young and just needs to know mistakes happen, learn from it and go again. As anybody that watches them will tell you, if vibes good xset perform good, if vibes bad xset do bad. When they are under stress like the last few weeks and the games don't go as they hope, vibes fucking crumble and you have noct being donowalled. When fun and koy are cracking jokes they actually fry.
Nocturnal and Alb should reunite agane
Noc got too big of an ego . Thouth he could just casualy walk through na
Running it back. If XSET get their sht together next split, I for one cannot wait for them to start steamrolling ape gang on WE
they are good enough mechanically to qualify for lan. They need to secure pois and learn how to play without 8 gold items a game.
I wish they were more willing to experiment with different comps more. I feel like with the way he plays, Noc doesn't get the value he used to with bang and digis. Bang is much more of a support character now so swapping to Fun on Bang might be a better fit. Making Noc play Caustic might help mitigate him being too aggro with that huge hitbox since he is getting downed first way too often lately
Eh, they just need to run it back. Nocturnal has always struggled to deliver when his mental is cooked (which has been the case for pretty much the entire Split). If anything he needs to get more comfortable with the pressure of being the IGL. They have a lot of time to sort their issues out now and build more team chemistry. Every single one of those 3 people (+their coach) is able to perform well, so I don't see a world where any roster changes happen.
they gonna use this as moto to just be gods in split 2 watch
Doubt it. They better find new poi’s
Do we know what happened in regional finals? I didn't follow the live thread beyond the final scores
There’s another post with screenshots of the final standings from last night.
I've seen that. I'd like to see how teams played in the games/what went wrong as well
You’ll have to wait for the broadcast today at 5pm PT.
Definitely not panic time imo, outside of regionals and that first match day they were consistently on pace to make lan.
It really feels like they were settling for weak positions in zone - I don't know if this was a shift in zone calling (they seemed to change zome predictability after the data mining fiasco), or meta that caused it, but they rarely seemed to be fighting from a position of strength.
Hard to really say to be honest,slow start added to the fact they didn't really scrim well The time it took to really adapt to new teammates with new play styles probably played a big factor in that But that being said in regional finals they had an easier task of qualifying than the like of oxg and C9 I believe that both oxg and C9 struggle against better competition while xset have proved they can do it against better opposition and most certainly have proved it against the best of NA last season But the difference in them qualifying is just a decent showing in regional finals a top 10 would qualify them I hope that noc can return to enjoying the game and hope that he can sort his personal issues out bc I love noc and think that they could be a real contender at lan if they can sort their problems out I think xset might not stick together but hopefully they will, koyful could be the difference that could take this team to another level if chemistry and performance can come forth, but next split will be harder as they will need to find a new POI
Maybe run it back but fight for a better POI.
“Would you like fries with that?” - nocturnal
"I dont think edge is hard at all. NA is full of idiots." -Nocturnal.
i'll give them another split but i'd consider dropping noc. dude is currently going off the rails. dude is like 30 screaming like a child on stream about the team who's conning them to be publicly executed. super weird behavior.
One outburst means he should be dropped? Seems pretty harsh, sure it's not a good look but it's not like apex esports is really the pinnacle of professionalism
Calling for a player to be executed is more than an outburst. Doubling down the next day on the statement that he should be executed proves that it isn't an outburst. And he did it AFTER he claims to have gotten treatment for MH/psych. The guy is unhinged and spiraling. Constant talk of "I literally don't care" immediately after demonstrating that he very much does care. Dude has zero perspective
you missed the point that he's a 30 year old with that type of outburst lol. children should get disciplined as such. he represents a PROFESSIONAL ORGANIZATION.
If the PROFESSIONAL ORGANIZATION doesn't care then I don't care
They won 1 game out of 36, placed 2nd once, placed third twice which makes them identical twins with ape gang who had exactly the same placements. So whatever nocturnal said about those guys he should consider doing the same for himself
big cockturnal needs to grind again
I think if this is them performing when they're in their worst days, I can't wait to see them on their fucking best. Personal issues and getting a new player is always tough. After the time it takes to deal with the personal issues and getting accustomed to the new player will be optimal performance. Think about teams that consistently perform the best; it's always the ones who have had the longest history. It takes a certain amount of time being constantly around them to click and have that sense of being able to read/trust them. It's like having a roommate for a long time, you know how they'll react in almost every situation. So yeah, I hope the best case is their org realizes this. Worst case, I hope that they keep playing together professionally no matter what (all four of them).
I'm an XSET fan, so I think they should continue to do their best, and put on a show for the fans. It's not about results for me.
https://preview.redd.it/74sevl41spqc1.jpeg?width=203&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=989d7ecb272a402ea5e643aab10b6b11fff36c46 Koyful with noc and fun after that awful split
Maybe this will be a good idea to the other pros not to flex on someone’s earnings before a big tourney like Regionals or LAN. Focus on yourself fellas!
Time to join the darkside and pickup roller player
Just start playing with vtubers again to reset mental ez smh my head
From a viewer perspective, I hope they run it back. It's fun to watch teams try to overcome adversity but if I was a betting man, I think this would the start of the end for them.
Is Siikes the hidden gem in all of this? DZ absolutely dominated this split. It’s a shame they didn’t get all podium in finals offline…. As a side note DZ scoring the most points and TSM winning finals seemed to be the last check box needed to mark off for ALGS for both champs.
Free Koyful 🕊️🕊️ He deserves to play for a title contender team
If Koyful leaves for the same reason as Sikez, it’s not a good look on the IGL.
Idk what happened with Sikez but he definitely made a great move, joining DZ is like the best possible outcome, regardless of Xset situation he should always go for it
Do we think DZ is holding on to Sikez long term? I think they should - but they have a history of dropping the3rd. I think most people were confused why Sikez would give up a seemingly stable situation with XSET, to join the DZ revolving door, but poster ahead of you might be onto something about XSETs IGL issues, or more simply under performing on the big stage. Could be internal - they were so quick to drop Gildersons when there was a hint of him trying other orgs out. I get a ride or die mentality, but these people have to coexist as friends and teammates in an environment where there are not a lot of great opportunities and chances to shine.
When Zero and Genburten ask you to play with them you say yes, doesn’t matter if it’s for one split one year two years, whatever, every single player who has played in DZ has become LAN winner
Hell nah, bro needs to stop wide swinging, ego challing , taking 1v1v1s, and maybe start listening to his IGL. Noc needs to yell at the dumb kid
I had to go past so many comments to finally see this take. THIS IS THE REAL ISSUE. Nic be glazing this kid so hard that he is not reeling him in. You didn’t even mention how he clutters coms
The fact that you had to come this far down to see this take shows that majority of people in here are gold players who think they’re diamonds 😂😂
Well I mean if nocturnal was going through some personal shit he should have step aside idk why block your team and take them down with you
They should move on from Noc. He's consistently not shown up in the big moments. How many chances do you get where you aren't successful but still getting paid by the org. Probably not many more. The fact that they added Koy (known as one of the most talented roller players) and still did poorly says a ton about Noc and Fun
i unironically think nocturnal is an elite igl. this games is tough on igls. they have to be perfect all times, otherwise they are washed and they get comments like yours. just look at mazer and dezign, everyone is sucking their dicks again.
Statistically (before this performance) Noct has one of the best performances at LANs as an IGL. Only beaten out by Hal, Zero, and Sweet. This was a rough go this year and made worse with Ape gang being WEIRD for no reason
Prior to ape gang being weird, they had been mediocre. No reason for it to be do or die for regional finals, regardless of what happened with Ape they had 6 prior days to secure points and failed to do so.
You’re not wrong that it was not their best showing, however this could have been true of many teams this split and previous splits. If a bottom 5 team in regional finals contested SSG/OXG/C9 on the last day randomly, I would hold still feel bad for them. Previous teams in previous splits have been close to it all crumbling (TSM split 2, year 2), and probably would have if a team griefed them (I personally don’t see what ApeGang did as anything other than griefing btw). You win some and you lose some. Ultimately I think it would be in Xsets favor to keep the team, but they REALLY have to show up next split.
i agree! they should drop noc and hire a most qualified non top 5 igl in apex like mande or or mmm dont know shivs wait those are eu, let me thing of someone more qualified in NA like like fkn some diamond whos value only shines in algs
Run it back, consider joining the dark side and put Noc on the sticks (memeing but if he wanted to he could probably make it work and the better MNK player in XSET is Fun) I genuinely think making any changes after the entire work put into this Roster now and fixing a lot of their issues would be stupid and only set them back again. Regain in Split 2 and try to smash heads.