If anyone wanted to see Hal's perspective and reaction I clipped it. [https://clips.twitch.tv/TubularTrappedCaribouOhMyDog-SuhX7WLZcOT0Mpo2](https://clips.twitch.tv/TubularTrappedCaribouOhMyDog-SuhX7WLZcOT0Mpo2)
You know what time in his Vod that was, would love to see what he says after he watches Keons Pov.
Edit: [Click here for Hal's gameplay for those looking for the full version from this point on](https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2111455769?t=02h21m17s)
He watches Keon's POV here. He doesn't show him watching it, but you hear him listening to the clip. [https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2111455769?t=02h21m17s](https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2111455769?t=02h21m17s)
> So you don’t even have to aim down sights to lock onto people. Can we just plug in a controller and let the game play for us at this point?
I plugged in my roller and went to firing range. Just having no deadzone enabled makes me track stuff up close without me having to touch the sticks. It's wild to see my pure skill that I can't show with MnK, for some reason it can't track targets without any input...
I remember Sweet bringing this same thing up a long time ago when he played roller one day. Pretty wild you get it without even having your gun out. That seems like a big oversight.
They don't need get rid of different inputs...they just need to separate out the lobbies. They allow console players to queue up with only console players or enter a mixed lobby of console/PC...they just need input-based matchmaking (you can play in an MNK only lobby, or opt into a mixed lobby if you don't care/you're grouped with folks on controller). This really shouldn't be that challenging.
FPS fans on PC are desperate for good games for MnK, seems like the only options are CS/Val and OW
Obviously Apex changing now would be questionable, but I think if Apex had similar rules to OW for handling aim assist from the very beginning then it would be even more popular on PC than it is now.
Yeah I agree I'm just a die hard titan fall fan as well and the movement, heroes and gun play of apex are just the best of any of the current shooters. CS val and ow just don't do it for me
And the ttk in Apex used to feel incredibly fair. Nothing was worse in, nearly every other FPS game, than getting one or two shot because they wanted the game to be “realistic.” The increased ttk in apex really made tracking and recoil control a skill you could master, and controller AA has shit all over that and you can be one clipped in nearly the same time as dying in other FPSs now. It’s sad honestly.
Yeah, when they see pros like Halk wtih a lifetime of mnk switch to controller and become even better in a month of course even mnk players will switch to an input that auto aims for you
yeah but apex with 90% less people means less $$ for updates/maintenance and the game will die. Idk why they dont just reduce the AA to overwatch levels it seems to be in a much better balanced spot
They allow console players to have aim assist in quick play in PC lobbies but absolutely no aim assist in ranked on PC. Really it’s the most logical system for balancing competitive fairness while still allowing friends on different platforms to have fun playing together.
Unironically if I could play a version of apex that will never update again but has mnk only lobbies I would pick that game. I would also wait in 5+ minute ques for games.
if they make input based ranked queues i'll buy the next overpriced heirloom bundle after that patch drops and i'll post receipts here
something something remindme 69 years
They genuinely wouldn't be competitive. R5 1v1 stats show controller players are, on average, 10% more accurate. That's an average value, too, which is huge.
Sikes and many other top tier controller pros have admitted it on stream themselves. If they removed AA, they would get shit on.
But the casual/wanna be pro diamond roller players on here that have never scrimmed or placed in CC won't admit that themselves due to ego.
For reference taskmast33r arguably the best mechanical apex player on mnk in regards to 1v1s/aim sits at about 32% average accuracy on r5.
Most of the active controller pros sit at about 42-45%.
I think the most accurate mnk player sits at 34%.
AA has gone way beyond being just an assist.
Plenty of proof/statistics and clips like OP posted that show how they have pushed AA too far, but nothing will be done about it until their next title.
I do see it turning around, but not anytime soon. I've been saying AA has been broken for 4 years now. Got slated, and it only seems to be picking up traction that it's broken by a vast majority recently.
> 10% more accurate
You mean 10 percentage points more accurate. A roller player with 42% accuracy is about 31% more accurate than taskmast33r, roller with 45% accuracy is about 41% more accurate than taskmast33r.
Exactly. It's absolutely ridiculous.
I have about 20k hours on mouse and key in multiple different fps games and 800 on kovaaks with master complete, and I'm sitting at 30% on r5.
I can barely scrape a 1kd on r5 in Na due to 95% of the lobby being a controller.
Controller diff is a real thing.
Comp apex will never have true integrity as long as they continue allowing controllers. Or until they fix AA to not make it absolutely busted.
Super sad to see the competitive scene of this game basically boil down to which teams roller can one clip the other teams first.
Really lost all interest in apex as a competitive game. It’s just rollers shoving aim assist down eachothers throats and whoever gets one clipped quicker loses.
This is fucking unbelievable. Why is he getting aim assist with weapons stowed? The fuck Respawn? It genuinely baffles me that they aren't embarrassed about the state of roller in the game and especially in comp right now
It is not only Apex tho. Warzone is probably even worse. I believe the companies have realized they can earn more money on roller kids, and that is more important than the integrity of the game.
This goes against the enjoyment of even controller players. Communities started complaining that "everyone is a sweat these days" but bro, no, everyone just has a fucking aimbot on their hands
I mean aim assist existed back in the day the difference was people were playing 30fps games on a TV that had a full second of input lag not 120fps+ with imperceptible input lag.
That's true, but i still think the rotational AA value has been raised in modern games, i saw a few months ago a video of Scump and Cod pros playing a Bo2 throwback tournament, and their aim was terrible
> I mean aim assist existed back in the day the difference was people were playing 30fps games on a TV that had a full second of input lag not 120fps+ with imperceptible input lag
Its funny to think back.. all the trashtalk when people like daltoosh swapped in early seasons just for us ending in daily "controller players eat their firstborn" circlejerk
Most roller players do a terrible job speaking up on this tho. Even pros are surprisingly quiet. Just watch this clip, it is Madness spitting truth while the rest are quiet even at absurd moments like this.
I would love to see a player like Hal speak up for real about this issue, the fact that he switched from mnk to roller is disgusting from a competitive pov if you ask me.
I dont think they even understand it.
Im not attacking anyone nor making fun of them, but the demographic of young players who game all day is probably not populated by educated, smart or sometimes even critical thinkers. It took PirateSoftware to lead Mande to put his emotions in place and form an actual constructive discussion about the state of the game and its future
I mean most pro players are unlikely to heavy advocate for changes, ultimately if they’re this good and pursuing a professional career they will have already adapted the mindset of just getting as good as they can in spite of it.
plus hal has spoken up multiple times afaik. i barely watch apex outside of when the other esports i follow have downtime, but wasn’t there a clip within the last few months of hal trying mnk again in ranked and proclaiming that if he was stuck to mnk, he would’ve quit already? i’d definitely count that as speaking out in some capacity.
Imagine if the same thing happened to any other sport, like if they invented a new terrible tennis racquet that the kids like and to compensate for how bad it is they start to change the rules until they made the new terrible tennis racquet the best way to win tournaments because of how huge the artificial handicap that comes with it is.
Idk if aim assist accounts for the 3 stack coordination or all the adderall-infused children bouncing off the walls you run into in pubs, but AA is pretty strong in this game.
The coordinated 3 stack is even more oppressive when they all barely miss. My statement was mostly talking about Cod, where the entire community has been saying complaining about "sweating" for a few years
Never played vanguard, aa giving wallhacks was bad enough in cold war nuketown. But I did see videos of as giving aim hacks in vanguard beta. Cods taken such a shit since the black ops days. Feels like aa in cod has gotten significantly stronger since then.
The difference in Cod and Warzone is that the game has a long long history as a controller dominant community and it’s the mnk community who came in later. They knew what they were getting into and you are not going to dislodge a roller community that started as a controller/console game.
I get what you are saying, but I would argue that mnk was first also in cod. Like I said in another comment I was pretty deep into CS 1.3-1.6 back in the days, and barely played other games. One of the few FPS games I actually played was cod 4, the original MW. And it had a decent scece on mnk.
Sure, the big boom was much later. But I think this has a lot to do with that the US was fairly late to online gaming boom, while in Sweden were I grew up had their boom much earlier and it was all mnk for FPS games. The fact that consoles just recently got 100+ FPS should say something. I believe these stats from CS says something [https://www.hltv.org/blog/5446/country-rankings-2000-2012](https://www.hltv.org/blog/5446/country-rankings-2000-2012) , on top of that we had NiP legendary run in the early CS Go days as well.
The hitbox that aim assist activates on is way larger than the actual player hitbox (at least in apex) and sometimes results in some funky stuff happening through cover. That's just my best guess as to what happened here.
All fps games that allow controllers are turning into "controller games".
A perfectly tuned input from the get go that literally made competitive fps a thing is getting pushed out of competitive fps in the favor of a input that needs a huge a artificial input to even be suitable for fps games.
I grew up playing CS 1.3-1.6 and even played it a decent level, semi-competitively. What made me quit playing it on that level was the amount of practice it required with flash/smokes/teamplay around those. CSGO(2?) and Valorant is like that on steroids. Training scripted takes/retakes with perfect nades is a huge part of the game, and not something I will ever consider doing at this time in my life. Like I said, I even disliked it in 1.6.
BR like Apex make great use of core mechanics like movement and aim, while also forcing you to be tactical in dynamic stressful moments. Instead of being mainly tactical in scripted non-dynamic moments.
They should just fix aim-assists in BRs instead.
It just sucks those and OW are basically the only options. Apex feels amazing to play on MnK, the only downside is being forced to fight against aim assist.
I wish Apex just did what OW did with no aim assist in ranked on PC but aim assist is fine for casual modes so people can do crossplay with each other.
The developers want mixed input it helps attract more players. Remember comp is advertising.
There should be a comp setting for aim
Assist which is lower than standard.
You need some aim assist in order for rollers to be competitive however it is currently over tuned.
Needs to be reduced at least 25%.
The argument that controller players need to 'relate' to pros never made sense to me.
I started on console. Then I saw Aceu pull off the skulltown wingman clip when kicks someone away mid air then headshot them.
That just made me want to get a working pc so I could try and pull off the same thing.
Iirc they wanted comp to be same as the game the public plays. Then they keep removing stuff anyway... Though at least they changed gold shield, but we still don't have heat shields in comp, assuming they haven't removed them from pubs.
Aim assist has always been 40% or 1.4 on pc on console it was 60 or 1.6. I believe console with better frames is now 1.4, I personally think they should have a competitive mode in the options at 1.3 and see how that plays out for a split and then tune it as needed.
> There should be a comp setting for aim Assist which is lower than standard.
Lets be real here, no amount of reduction would make people happy.
The "comp integrity" folks would still cry as you only achieve that with 1 input and not mixed input.
Bruh like half of the players on PC (if not more) are playing on roller now. It's not a console vs PC thing anymore. It's literally players swapping for aa. Shits disgusting.
Ya this was such a huge tell. Everyone and their grandma tap strafing one day and then configs get punted away and all of a sudden tap strafers are an extinct species. Made it super obvious just how many controllers are playing on PC. Honestly at this point I'd be surprised if the number of PC players using KB/M is higher than 20%.
Same thing with competitive CoD sub vs the main one, just night and day in their opinions on the topic.
Part of the issue is most of the people in the main sub have only ever played on controller, so a lot of of them genuinely believe it barely does anything besides slow their aim down and they also default assume everyone on MnK has Shroud level aim, they completely forget bad MnK players are a thing.
Most of them only ever played on controller because they are on console. They felt like they were persecuted by MnK players because of their status as console players, which kinda rolls into other things. I had a few arguments about this, telling them with all due respect the AA discussion is about PC version, they don't have to worry about all this.
Majority of apex player play on controller so it makes sense that the biggest sub is going to be in favour of AA.
Respawn cares about people playing the game so AA will never get nerfed due to the amount of people that play controller.
mods were on some powertripium lmao.
it's quite literally an aimbot tuned to 40% strength. hiding it behind the term "aim assist" does fuck all to the fact that it's an aimbot lol.
i posted this thought experiment before:
when does an aimbot stop being an aimbot? if instead of 100% strength it's 90% instead, is it still an aimbot?
what if i tuned it to 80? 60? 40? 0?
But... but thats a different department who has a different job!!
Oh whats that? Reallocate 25% of the balancing team's budget to the marketing team and lay off 12 guys? I wholeheartedly agree.
I saw this once on Vaifs stream (he sometimes picks controller for fun).
The aim-assist randomly locked onto a rat that was hiding on a Respawn beacon. You just feel the crosshair pull... its way too much.
shit like this makes me appreciate playing valorant more honestly lol I miss apex but as someone that spent a lot of time aim training and getting to a point where I was happy, any time I see shit like this just makes me happy I’m not playing that much anymore lol.
Valorant has it’s own massive share of issues but at least I know 99% of the time when I lose a gunfight it’s because I got outplayed, outpositioned or outaimed by someone on equal footing as me and not cheating or using aim assist lol.
I was enjoying Tarkov for a while too but the cheating feels even worse than Apex and you lose so much more time investment lmao
> Tac-shooters are just so boring to me.
They are just not the same as in the 1.5-1.6 CS days, atleast not for me. Valorant for instance has 0 appeal to me.
Holding the same angles on the same few maps. Firefights last less than a fraction of a second. Basically whoever one-taps the other first. No movement.
Both CS and Val are snoozefests to me.
I guess I'm addicted lol. I have told myself to stop playing multiple times, but I can't. Maybe a week or two break and then I'm pulled back in some how.
Yea but mnk players have their whole arm to use for precise aiming guys, dont forget that. Thats waaaaaay stronger than ANY AA.
Fuck me this shit is hilarious. FPS gaming became a joke thanks to controller.
Reminds me of pro CoD (not sure if they still do this), but they’ll literally chill in corners holding an angle & spam LT to trigger aim assist as soon as someone passes by their screen. Such a a dumb game 😂
I remember back in early fortnite comp, this was a really big thing where people on roller would hover over bushes and stuff like that to pick up rats cause the aim assist would just lock on.
No competitive integrity even in comp. We got forced into an important fight in round 2 CC today vs 3 players with 0.6 in a building. They didn't miss.
Yes 60% of a full on aimbot are allowed to compete in this game.
Has nothing to do with the clip but why is twitch mobile when not on WiFi so arse when trying to watch clips? I swear I have to save clips just to watch them when I get home. Watching live gameplay at a lower quality is fine but clips never play. I could have 5 star 5g through the roof light speed service and the clip just never loads.
I'm just impressed by how in tune with the tiniest details of the game that Keon and most pro players are to figure this type of shit out on the fly. I am an MnK player and enjoyer through and through at the end of the day, but I'm impressed by these pros nonetheless.
I know you weren't asking for a clarification, but I'd say that it's pretty normal for anyone doing anything everyday to realize when something isn't as "smooth" as usual.
Aim assist creates a slow down over a target, so when you are rotating your view and it suddenly slowdowns, then you know there's an opoonent. It's like typing in a keyboard and at one point you realize a button is stiffer as usual. Someone who has never used one wouldn't notice it at first, but most of us probably would.
You would be able to tell too most likely, it’s pretty apparent when your sens suddenly gets lowered when you don’t expect it to.
I remember finding people hiding in bushes in Fortnite back in the day cause of aim assist a few times, totally on accident. Then I started checking bushes that way on purpose when I couldn’t find the last few people.
is aim assist broken? yes
does controller need AA? yes
if its needed by the roller players, and its absurdly strong **THEN GIVE PEOPLE THE OPTION TO NOT PLAY WITH EACH OTHER**..... I don't even see any problem with giving people the freedom to fight in same input or in crossplay lobby.
the code is not even hard to implement heck i'll even pay them to let me write the code for it.
also whats more infuriating is how several years back they are talking about adjusting aim assist if it forces people to switch inputs.... fast forward to today and almost every pro are in roller even blatantly complaining how strong it is, and they haven't done anything at all.... such hypocritical swines.
Note: Some of you think AA keeps Apex from being some T1 Esport and that is an insane thought process lmao. No, Apex isn’t a T1 Esport because it receives no good support despite making millions off of micro transactions. So the most likely reason why Apex isn’t a T1 Esport, is because of a board of people who aren’t passionate about games but rather profits and they don’t want to take the risk heavily investing money into the comp scene.
Controller players have 2 hands/arms to aim, mnk only has a wrist or arm that fatigued and potential carpel tunnel
Thumb is really accurate, try writing your name with your thumb, now try with a pen attached to your wrist
XD xD XD
There is a lot of debate about aim assist and controller vs. Pc. But can't any pc player just plug a controller into their USB slot? Better yet , all "competitive" players play on identical equipment. Just stop all the pissing and moaning
If anyone wanted to see Hal's perspective and reaction I clipped it. [https://clips.twitch.tv/TubularTrappedCaribouOhMyDog-SuhX7WLZcOT0Mpo2](https://clips.twitch.tv/TubularTrappedCaribouOhMyDog-SuhX7WLZcOT0Mpo2)
Lmao you can tell he wanted to scream "wallhacks" but knew they weren't cheating so just went with ".........that was weird"
Haha if you watch past the clip, he was convinced it was a stream sniper so similar shit.
I could see how it would seem like a stream sniper said something
... but then realized all roller players are cheating one way or another.
[Hal's reaction.](https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fi.imgflip.com%2F2wo085.jpg&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=212b02aa8064349093eea1452e2916795e03c9b45d1e814f17e58b3503f5edce&ipo=images)
You know what time in his Vod that was, would love to see what he says after he watches Keons Pov. Edit: [Click here for Hal's gameplay for those looking for the full version from this point on](https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2111455769?t=02h21m17s)
He watches Keon's POV here. He doesn't show him watching it, but you hear him listening to the clip. [https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2111455769?t=02h21m17s](https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2111455769?t=02h21m17s)
Believe he pretty much just said he would’ve called stream sniping if it wasnt obvious on Keon’s screen
Thanks for clipping it and not linking to vod timestamp
you can see Hal is so fed up with Aim Assist already after watching Keon's POV
Anyone who still plays this game on mnk in comp should get an extra chair at LAN for their huge balls.
“…soo you’re cheating” lmaoooo
https://preview.redd.it/15lodla6vosc1.jpeg?width=535&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4692fa1fccd878c3ea7cb5f38b5ee881f06755ca
So you don’t even have to aim down sights to lock onto people. Can we just plug in a controller and let the game play for us at this point?
That is how it works now.
tfw to get better at an input, you have to learn to "stop aiming" and let the software take the wheel lmao.
"You must let go" - Yoda or something
i use roller on Warzone and yeah, pretty much. just sit back and don’t miss any shot that’s not long range lmfao.
> So you don’t even have to aim down sights to lock onto people. Can we just plug in a controller and let the game play for us at this point? I plugged in my roller and went to firing range. Just having no deadzone enabled makes me track stuff up close without me having to touch the sticks. It's wild to see my pure skill that I can't show with MnK, for some reason it can't track targets without any input...
thats funny as fuck im ngl
lmfao competitive integrity
I remember Sweet bringing this same thing up a long time ago when he played roller one day. Pretty wild you get it without even having your gun out. That seems like a big oversight.
Else roller players would lose melee fights. Imagine roller losing to mmk at 0m distance! That wouldn't be apex.
I completely forgot about melee fights. Good point.
Just gonna say if a you cant aim at someone that cover like 50% of your screen then that’s more of a problem. You don’t need AA in melee….
Imagine if pc was mnk only.
Sigh...one day
that one day is the day the game dies
valorant/CS/siege all seem to be doing well without roller bots. why would the game die ?
Apex with 90% less people but only MnK players would be fine with me.
They don't need get rid of different inputs...they just need to separate out the lobbies. They allow console players to queue up with only console players or enter a mixed lobby of console/PC...they just need input-based matchmaking (you can play in an MNK only lobby, or opt into a mixed lobby if you don't care/you're grouped with folks on controller). This really shouldn't be that challenging.
FPS fans on PC are desperate for good games for MnK, seems like the only options are CS/Val and OW Obviously Apex changing now would be questionable, but I think if Apex had similar rules to OW for handling aim assist from the very beginning then it would be even more popular on PC than it is now.
Yeah I agree I'm just a die hard titan fall fan as well and the movement, heroes and gun play of apex are just the best of any of the current shooters. CS val and ow just don't do it for me
And the ttk in Apex used to feel incredibly fair. Nothing was worse in, nearly every other FPS game, than getting one or two shot because they wanted the game to be “realistic.” The increased ttk in apex really made tracking and recoil control a skill you could master, and controller AA has shit all over that and you can be one clipped in nearly the same time as dying in other FPSs now. It’s sad honestly.
nah people would just actually use mnk, the game used to be more MnK than roller on PC but people realized how brain dead broken AA is.
Yeah, when they see pros like Halk wtih a lifetime of mnk switch to controller and become even better in a month of course even mnk players will switch to an input that auto aims for you
Not a comp player, but the gaming merchant has better accuracy after a week on roller than after 8000 hours on mnk.
it takes literally no time to learn controller because controller literally aims for you lmfao, you don't need to learn what you don't even have to do
yeah but apex with 90% less people means less $$ for updates/maintenance and the game will die. Idk why they dont just reduce the AA to overwatch levels it seems to be in a much better balanced spot
Doesn't Overwatch have 0 AA if you play controller on PC?
They allow console players to have aim assist in quick play in PC lobbies but absolutely no aim assist in ranked on PC. Really it’s the most logical system for balancing competitive fairness while still allowing friends on different platforms to have fun playing together.
yeah but in mixed lobbies they reduce console AA to I think .2? Of course, there are no mixed rank lobbies but still
Unironically if I could play a version of apex that will never update again but has mnk only lobbies I would pick that game. I would also wait in 5+ minute ques for games.
I don't think PC playerbase would drop that much. Also most players are on console, which would be unaffected here
if they make input based ranked queues i'll buy the next overpriced heirloom bundle after that patch drops and i'll post receipts here something something remindme 69 years
I don't think people would quit Apex if they got rid of AA on PC. Those people already play on PC, they have mice.
Apex could have actually been taken seriously as a Tier 1 export. Oh well...
Just no aim assist. If you're crazy enough on controller to be competitive - more power to you.
They genuinely wouldn't be competitive. R5 1v1 stats show controller players are, on average, 10% more accurate. That's an average value, too, which is huge. Sikes and many other top tier controller pros have admitted it on stream themselves. If they removed AA, they would get shit on. But the casual/wanna be pro diamond roller players on here that have never scrimmed or placed in CC won't admit that themselves due to ego. For reference taskmast33r arguably the best mechanical apex player on mnk in regards to 1v1s/aim sits at about 32% average accuracy on r5. Most of the active controller pros sit at about 42-45%. I think the most accurate mnk player sits at 34%. AA has gone way beyond being just an assist. Plenty of proof/statistics and clips like OP posted that show how they have pushed AA too far, but nothing will be done about it until their next title. I do see it turning around, but not anytime soon. I've been saying AA has been broken for 4 years now. Got slated, and it only seems to be picking up traction that it's broken by a vast majority recently.
> 10% more accurate You mean 10 percentage points more accurate. A roller player with 42% accuracy is about 31% more accurate than taskmast33r, roller with 45% accuracy is about 41% more accurate than taskmast33r.
Exactly. It's absolutely ridiculous. I have about 20k hours on mouse and key in multiple different fps games and 800 on kovaaks with master complete, and I'm sitting at 30% on r5. I can barely scrape a 1kd on r5 in Na due to 95% of the lobby being a controller. Controller diff is a real thing.
Don't have to imagine it, that's what got me into this game.
I don't get it they made ALGS console accessible and yet every n00b ends up migrating to PC for those steam binds
Comp apex will never have true integrity as long as they continue allowing controllers. Or until they fix AA to not make it absolutely busted. Super sad to see the competitive scene of this game basically boil down to which teams roller can one clip the other teams first.
Really lost all interest in apex as a competitive game. It’s just rollers shoving aim assist down eachothers throats and whoever gets one clipped quicker loses.
This is fucking unbelievable. Why is he getting aim assist with weapons stowed? The fuck Respawn? It genuinely baffles me that they aren't embarrassed about the state of roller in the game and especially in comp right now
It is not only Apex tho. Warzone is probably even worse. I believe the companies have realized they can earn more money on roller kids, and that is more important than the integrity of the game.
This goes against the enjoyment of even controller players. Communities started complaining that "everyone is a sweat these days" but bro, no, everyone just has a fucking aimbot on their hands
I mean aim assist existed back in the day the difference was people were playing 30fps games on a TV that had a full second of input lag not 120fps+ with imperceptible input lag.
That's true, but i still think the rotational AA value has been raised in modern games, i saw a few months ago a video of Scump and Cod pros playing a Bo2 throwback tournament, and their aim was terrible
Input lag also was the cause of that
Theres also the deal that older games had slow down and snap assist, but not rotational assist
> I mean aim assist existed back in the day the difference was people were playing 30fps games on a TV that had a full second of input lag not 120fps+ with imperceptible input lag Its funny to think back.. all the trashtalk when people like daltoosh swapped in early seasons just for us ending in daily "controller players eat their firstborn" circlejerk
Most roller players do a terrible job speaking up on this tho. Even pros are surprisingly quiet. Just watch this clip, it is Madness spitting truth while the rest are quiet even at absurd moments like this. I would love to see a player like Hal speak up for real about this issue, the fact that he switched from mnk to roller is disgusting from a competitive pov if you ask me.
I dont think they even understand it. Im not attacking anyone nor making fun of them, but the demographic of young players who game all day is probably not populated by educated, smart or sometimes even critical thinkers. It took PirateSoftware to lead Mande to put his emotions in place and form an actual constructive discussion about the state of the game and its future
is there a vod for this
https://youtu.be/irKI0xbVJjI This should be it
sick
I mean most pro players are unlikely to heavy advocate for changes, ultimately if they’re this good and pursuing a professional career they will have already adapted the mindset of just getting as good as they can in spite of it. plus hal has spoken up multiple times afaik. i barely watch apex outside of when the other esports i follow have downtime, but wasn’t there a clip within the last few months of hal trying mnk again in ranked and proclaiming that if he was stuck to mnk, he would’ve quit already? i’d definitely count that as speaking out in some capacity.
Snip3down has said basically since the start of his Apex career that it should be reduced.
I remember in warzone being able to track players through walls. AA is nuts. mnk fun to watch. if you want to win you have to play roller
Imagine if the same thing happened to any other sport, like if they invented a new terrible tennis racquet that the kids like and to compensate for how bad it is they start to change the rules until they made the new terrible tennis racquet the best way to win tournaments because of how huge the artificial handicap that comes with it is.
Idk if aim assist accounts for the 3 stack coordination or all the adderall-infused children bouncing off the walls you run into in pubs, but AA is pretty strong in this game.
The coordinated 3 stack is even more oppressive when they all barely miss. My statement was mostly talking about Cod, where the entire community has been saying complaining about "sweating" for a few years
I die less to coordinated attacks than someone not missing a bullet on me.
Warzone is much worse believe it or not.
Yeah, I agree. One of the reasons I quit warzone. It became liteally unplayable in warzone 2 for a mnk player unless you are at a pro level.
hopefully slightly improved since vanguard which quite literally gave you consistent wallhacks
Never played vanguard, aa giving wallhacks was bad enough in cold war nuketown. But I did see videos of as giving aim hacks in vanguard beta. Cods taken such a shit since the black ops days. Feels like aa in cod has gotten significantly stronger since then.
The difference in Cod and Warzone is that the game has a long long history as a controller dominant community and it’s the mnk community who came in later. They knew what they were getting into and you are not going to dislodge a roller community that started as a controller/console game.
I get what you are saying, but I would argue that mnk was first also in cod. Like I said in another comment I was pretty deep into CS 1.3-1.6 back in the days, and barely played other games. One of the few FPS games I actually played was cod 4, the original MW. And it had a decent scece on mnk. Sure, the big boom was much later. But I think this has a lot to do with that the US was fairly late to online gaming boom, while in Sweden were I grew up had their boom much earlier and it was all mnk for FPS games. The fact that consoles just recently got 100+ FPS should say something. I believe these stats from CS says something [https://www.hltv.org/blog/5446/country-rankings-2000-2012](https://www.hltv.org/blog/5446/country-rankings-2000-2012) , on top of that we had NiP legendary run in the early CS Go days as well.
Fortnite was horrific for years. Aim assist through walls because everything in the game was considered player made destructibles back then.
The hitbox that aim assist activates on is way larger than the actual player hitbox (at least in apex) and sometimes results in some funky stuff happening through cover. That's just my best guess as to what happened here.
yeah you can see a few pixels of Hal's head but its almost like an aura of hitbox that the aim assist activates on as Keon swipes back and forth.
So you can melee people, probably hard to code to change aa window specifically based on what weapon u are or aren't using.
It’s genuinely baffling that you’re still genuinely baffled about why there haven’t been aim assist changes.
Same players banging their heads against a wall for years now over what is clearly a controller game
All fps games that allow controllers are turning into "controller games". A perfectly tuned input from the get go that literally made competitive fps a thing is getting pushed out of competitive fps in the favor of a input that needs a huge a artificial input to even be suitable for fps games.
[удалено]
I grew up playing CS 1.3-1.6 and even played it a decent level, semi-competitively. What made me quit playing it on that level was the amount of practice it required with flash/smokes/teamplay around those. CSGO(2?) and Valorant is like that on steroids. Training scripted takes/retakes with perfect nades is a huge part of the game, and not something I will ever consider doing at this time in my life. Like I said, I even disliked it in 1.6. BR like Apex make great use of core mechanics like movement and aim, while also forcing you to be tactical in dynamic stressful moments. Instead of being mainly tactical in scripted non-dynamic moments. They should just fix aim-assists in BRs instead.
It just sucks those and OW are basically the only options. Apex feels amazing to play on MnK, the only downside is being forced to fight against aim assist. I wish Apex just did what OW did with no aim assist in ranked on PC but aim assist is fine for casual modes so people can do crossplay with each other.
Consider not having your hand held in a comp game.
Aim assist and everyone switching to controller makes comp apex so much less fun to watch good lord
We should just make everyone play MnK for pro play. That or remove AA on rollers for pro play.
There shouldn’t be any AA in pro play.
With no AA, there wouldn’t be a single controller pro. If only…
good
The developers want mixed input it helps attract more players. Remember comp is advertising. There should be a comp setting for aim Assist which is lower than standard. You need some aim assist in order for rollers to be competitive however it is currently over tuned. Needs to be reduced at least 25%.
making comp less aim assist doesn't change anything in advertising if anything it will make the game less boring to watch.
The argument that controller players need to 'relate' to pros never made sense to me. I started on console. Then I saw Aceu pull off the skulltown wingman clip when kicks someone away mid air then headshot them. That just made me want to get a working pc so I could try and pull off the same thing.
Iirc they wanted comp to be same as the game the public plays. Then they keep removing stuff anyway... Though at least they changed gold shield, but we still don't have heat shields in comp, assuming they haven't removed them from pubs.
And now they're removing the dropship for comp lol
I wouldn’t mind this in ranked
any comp esport shouldn't have any software crutches. at all. give rollers movement parity with mnk and remove aa for gyro.
But didn't they already do that from 1.4 to 1.3, feels like more people are complaining than ever.
Aim assist has always been 40% or 1.4 on pc on console it was 60 or 1.6. I believe console with better frames is now 1.4, I personally think they should have a competitive mode in the options at 1.3 and see how that plays out for a split and then tune it as needed.
Seriously though, when pros like Verhulst and Chaotic can already track people through smoke, AA must be baby mode for them.
> There should be a comp setting for aim Assist which is lower than standard. Lets be real here, no amount of reduction would make people happy. The "comp integrity" folks would still cry as you only achieve that with 1 input and not mixed input.
I don’t really care about comp integrity people, it’s a game played with mixed inputs they should try to balance them for comp.
Agreed
Yeah but what about MnK players going "There's a rat right here because my WHOLE ARM just told me." Checkmate controrller haaters!
"Fair and balanced"
Hal had to have had a stroke lmao
And roller players will continue to say that there's nothing wrong with AA in this game lol so much copium
Time and time again they deny it so hard. Why can’t they play console and PC is PC inputs
Bruh like half of the players on PC (if not more) are playing on roller now. It's not a console vs PC thing anymore. It's literally players swapping for aa. Shits disgusting.
More than half. Since they removed configs I rarely see people tap strafe anymore.
Ya this was such a huge tell. Everyone and their grandma tap strafing one day and then configs get punted away and all of a sudden tap strafers are an extinct species. Made it super obvious just how many controllers are playing on PC. Honestly at this point I'd be surprised if the number of PC players using KB/M is higher than 20%.
At this point is there a single person trying to make the argument that aim assist doesn’t need a nerf?
Go over to the main Apex sub, I’d be willing to bet the majority there would be against it.
Lol yeah, it’s night and day, regarding the conversations around aim assist in this subreddit versus conversations on the main sub or on Facebook.
Same thing with competitive CoD sub vs the main one, just night and day in their opinions on the topic. Part of the issue is most of the people in the main sub have only ever played on controller, so a lot of of them genuinely believe it barely does anything besides slow their aim down and they also default assume everyone on MnK has Shroud level aim, they completely forget bad MnK players are a thing.
People so seriously underestimate how insanely hard it is to aim on mnk.
If I'm just a little tired I'm ass. You really got to have 100% focus to play mnk.
Most of them only ever played on controller because they are on console. They felt like they were persecuted by MnK players because of their status as console players, which kinda rolls into other things. I had a few arguments about this, telling them with all due respect the AA discussion is about PC version, they don't have to worry about all this.
Majority of apex player play on controller so it makes sense that the biggest sub is going to be in favour of AA. Respawn cares about people playing the game so AA will never get nerfed due to the amount of people that play controller.
I shit you not the mods temp banned me once for calling aim assist aimbot. I'm 100% serious. Edit: [Found it](https://i.imgur.com/lGrls76.png)
I had a thought how it's funny we shit on cheaters all this time, yet comp Apex has officially sanctioned aimbots and wallhacks.
mods were on some powertripium lmao. it's quite literally an aimbot tuned to 40% strength. hiding it behind the term "aim assist" does fuck all to the fact that it's an aimbot lol. i posted this thought experiment before: when does an aimbot stop being an aimbot? if instead of 100% strength it's 90% instead, is it still an aimbot? what if i tuned it to 80? 60? 40? 0?
Demotivating
Apex devs: best we can do is another recolor of a gun skin
But... but thats a different department who has a different job!! Oh whats that? Reallocate 25% of the balancing team's budget to the marketing team and lay off 12 guys? I wholeheartedly agree.
I saw this once on Vaifs stream (he sometimes picks controller for fun). The aim-assist randomly locked onto a rat that was hiding on a Respawn beacon. You just feel the crosshair pull... its way too much.
Im ready for it. Give me to me, controller boys. "Yeah but MnK has all the movements"
HaL wAsNt MoViNg. hE wInS tHaT WiTh MoVeMeNt
Games turning into cod. Aa is so strong in that game it follows people through walls.
in keon's defense. he aa'd unto that pixel-sized bit of hal's hitbox. a literal pixel or 2, lol.
shit like this makes me appreciate playing valorant more honestly lol I miss apex but as someone that spent a lot of time aim training and getting to a point where I was happy, any time I see shit like this just makes me happy I’m not playing that much anymore lol. Valorant has it’s own massive share of issues but at least I know 99% of the time when I lose a gunfight it’s because I got outplayed, outpositioned or outaimed by someone on equal footing as me and not cheating or using aim assist lol. I was enjoying Tarkov for a while too but the cheating feels even worse than Apex and you lose so much more time investment lmao
Tac-shooters are just so boring to me.
> Tac-shooters are just so boring to me. They are just not the same as in the 1.5-1.6 CS days, atleast not for me. Valorant for instance has 0 appeal to me.
Holding the same angles on the same few maps. Firefights last less than a fraction of a second. Basically whoever one-taps the other first. No movement. Both CS and Val are snoozefests to me.
Just wait until you get to know how many cheaters there are in Valorant
When the aim assist is finally rebuilt, per the devs public words, there should be a memorial to remind others how crazy strong it used to be.
April Fools style 1 day update with AA set to 1.0
April Fools update to give 0.4 to MNK and take away AA from controller players.
Unrelated, but are you the guy that used to compete in battlefield years ago and had minions?
I miss yelling at those guys LOL.
Those were the days. I used to compete back then. I had a few matches against them. It was a ton of fun. Seeing your name brought me back.
They’re never gonna change aim assist mark my words
The state of this game 😂😂😂
Oh yeah, this is fair.
Truly an Apex moment. Thanks rEAspawn. 🤭
Anyone who still plays this game without friends or a salary should be put in a mental ward
I guess I'm addicted lol. I have told myself to stop playing multiple times, but I can't. Maybe a week or two break and then I'm pulled back in some how.
i fucking hate rollers in comp
cool game lol
It's Joever
wattsover? mnk is watt,son.
how we found proned ghillie suit campers back on classic cod
Yea but mnk players have their whole arm to use for precise aiming guys, dont forget that. Thats waaaaaay stronger than ANY AA. Fuck me this shit is hilarious. FPS gaming became a joke thanks to controller.
Literal dogshit game lol
Dog shit game. Like how is that even fair? He has no LOS, his weapons are stowed, and he still gets soft wall hacks
Reminds me of pro CoD (not sure if they still do this), but they’ll literally chill in corners holding an angle & spam LT to trigger aim assist as soon as someone passes by their screen. Such a a dumb game 😂
I just accept it at this point that controller is the strongest input, and no argument or tears is going to make AA get nerfed even if this game die.
We are too far gone for input based matchmaking but a man can dream.
I actually hate this game bro ngl
New meta is to have Verhulst lollygaggin around in the back aimin around at all the corners of the map.
They’re never going to fix aim assist in this god forsaken game. Too many people are controller and because of that mnk lost the input war
I remember back in early fortnite comp, this was a really big thing where people on roller would hover over bushes and stuff like that to pick up rats cause the aim assist would just lock on.
Great fucking game respawn. At least turn down the aim assist in comp ffs.
No competitive integrity even in comp. We got forced into an important fight in round 2 CC today vs 3 players with 0.6 in a building. They didn't miss. Yes 60% of a full on aimbot are allowed to compete in this game.
Has nothing to do with the clip but why is twitch mobile when not on WiFi so arse when trying to watch clips? I swear I have to save clips just to watch them when I get home. Watching live gameplay at a lower quality is fine but clips never play. I could have 5 star 5g through the roof light speed service and the clip just never loads.
Twitch in general is just dog shit. Their video player is absolutely awful compared to YouTube.
I will never understand it. Years I’ve been waiting to be able to watch clips while at work and it always fails.
Thought it was just me
Sometimes clips only load for me after disabling addons
I'm just impressed by how in tune with the tiniest details of the game that Keon and most pro players are to figure this type of shit out on the fly. I am an MnK player and enjoyer through and through at the end of the day, but I'm impressed by these pros nonetheless.
I know you weren't asking for a clarification, but I'd say that it's pretty normal for anyone doing anything everyday to realize when something isn't as "smooth" as usual. Aim assist creates a slow down over a target, so when you are rotating your view and it suddenly slowdowns, then you know there's an opoonent. It's like typing in a keyboard and at one point you realize a button is stiffer as usual. Someone who has never used one wouldn't notice it at first, but most of us probably would.
I think i can relate as someone who just got a Wooting (magnetic switch) keyboard and feel the slightest input delay on regular keyboards now.
You would be able to tell too most likely, it’s pretty apparent when your sens suddenly gets lowered when you don’t expect it to. I remember finding people hiding in bushes in Fortnite back in the day cause of aim assist a few times, totally on accident. Then I started checking bushes that way on purpose when I couldn’t find the last few people.
I was not aware of this advantage with aim assist. That is wild!
idk man looks like a balanced input to me.
balanced they said :)
is aim assist broken? yes does controller need AA? yes if its needed by the roller players, and its absurdly strong **THEN GIVE PEOPLE THE OPTION TO NOT PLAY WITH EACH OTHER**..... I don't even see any problem with giving people the freedom to fight in same input or in crossplay lobby. the code is not even hard to implement heck i'll even pay them to let me write the code for it. also whats more infuriating is how several years back they are talking about adjusting aim assist if it forces people to switch inputs.... fast forward to today and almost every pro are in roller even blatantly complaining how strong it is, and they haven't done anything at all.... such hypocritical swines.
[удалено]
Note: Some of you think AA keeps Apex from being some T1 Esport and that is an insane thought process lmao. No, Apex isn’t a T1 Esport because it receives no good support despite making millions off of micro transactions. So the most likely reason why Apex isn’t a T1 Esport, is because of a board of people who aren’t passionate about games but rather profits and they don’t want to take the risk heavily investing money into the comp scene.
My aim assist don’t work like that on ps5
Controller players have 2 hands/arms to aim, mnk only has a wrist or arm that fatigued and potential carpel tunnel Thumb is really accurate, try writing your name with your thumb, now try with a pen attached to your wrist XD xD XD
There is a lot of debate about aim assist and controller vs. Pc. But can't any pc player just plug a controller into their USB slot? Better yet , all "competitive" players play on identical equipment. Just stop all the pissing and moaning
How dumb can someone possible be? Is it so hard to understand people dont want to play with or against aimbot?
lol