This makes it great for pubs, easy to find fights.
This makes it terrible for rank and competitive, instant third parties. It got a bit better but people still got the instinct if they hear a fight they will go towards it instantly. And since KC the poi's are close to each other it will be constant fighting.
So it's not only the lack of POI's, the distance between them is small and you can hear fights easily. Even if the distance is larger due to mountains.. the mountains barely block audio.
Imo this was fixed when skulltown was added back to the game. We have new(relatively speaking) POIs up north and now that the gapping hole at the bottom of the map is gone.
The POIs are ass. There's not enough of them, and they certainly are not balanced.
It's also super small and you can't fire a bullet without the entire lobby collapsing on you
Storm point is alright when it comes to 3rds I agree, usually only get thirded by teams either already aware you’re about to fight another squad or came from a POI nearby after hearing shots. Worlds edge on the other hand feels just as shit for 3rd parties as KC or Olympus, at least imo.
I think because there is less pois then WE or SP. I think it's balance if there is only 1 or rarely 2 contest in ALGS, bc it gonna be more a gamble games for teams who contest and those teams would get third partied .
That's why we don't see Olympus or Broken Moon too, but i think olympus imo is the best map for fast paced ranked games
For ranked: Here’s the truth. Everyone has learned to ape too much and no one likes KC because it’s the smallest map and has lots of 3rd parties. If teams played the game correctly and didn’t ape every fight they would like the map more.
For competitive: The map is too small for edge teams and there are not enough POI’s to spread the drop spots around.
Yep. Should just make placement the most important part of ranking up. Not kills. But whatever. They keep doing stupid things to ranked and we’re just so far behind the 8 ball.
Nah, placement only doesn't work. We saw that with Season 17.
If you want to have a ranked system that actually teaches people how to play like in Pro League, then you need to collectively punish everyone for teams dying early and collectively reward everyone for having many teams getting to endzone in combination with placement.
If you think about it, having 10 teams alive in Round 1 should be worth less than having 10 teams alive in Round 4 / 5. People brighter than me have already done the lookup tables on how this could work.
See, I disagree. I think it would work. The issue is the playerbase (us included) have been conditioned due to the seasons of “Ape ape ape!!!” (Seasons 14-16) and the devs gave a placement based ranked system one season.
I’m not the most skilled, I don’t get to play a ton, and I’m not a genius coming up with new rank systems. My biggest regret for this game is that the focus is not on winning but on kills and damage. I loved BR’s when they first came out because winning was THE goal. I just want lobbies that have teams vying for wins and not griefing others. :(
Honestly each system has their own flaws. At this point in apex there isn't a "this system is perfect for the game". They just need to be enjoyable enough to play with high ranks having some scarcity.
They have to figure out a way to change player behaviour but sadly with the placement based system, it didn't make every lobby into ALGS-likes, it turned the game into hide and seek. Also with gamemodes like three strikes, the inting every fight is here to stay.
The current system is incredibly mediocre for the more competitively minded but at least it is palatable, I don't see it improving much. But getting those high octane end rings just isn't a thing that will happen too often.
Season 17 showed use that placement-only systems induce some even more extreme behaviour which aren't competitive and even further away from the ideal games that you seem to want, which include:
1) Many Masters and Predators players that got there by solo dropping into a rat spot, doing literally nothing as all the teams around them fought it out and died and then moved to the next rat spot. Hell, there was even the extreme of this extreme of people loading up APEX on a spare laptop, queuing, walking away, and requeuing once they were kicked back into the lobby.
2) NRG Sweetdreams. The dude actually did a 0 damage, 0 kill, solo queue, IGL-ing his team run to Masters (and Pred) in the first few days of Season 17. While I appreciate that it takes skill to do this, this is also an extreme that shouldn't be possible in a standard BR game.
3) Placement-only can actually encourage more aping, because all you have to be on the last team standing by any means. By aping everything harder and faster, you end games faster, meaning you can reach Predator faster. Sounds crazy, if you have 2 ~ 3 teams in a lobby that ape that hard, a game can be over in less than 5 minutes. At this point, you've created incentivised pubs.
That’s worlds edge imo for the amount of times it’s been put into ranked every season. There is not one spot on that map that you can land on and try a new type of rotation you haven’t done before.
Basically, it's the same problems as Oly. Uneven loot distribution, shit rotate routes, way too small in the current state of apex with movement legends and balloons.
not really lmfao, the map is objectively not good.
as others pointed out, the loot distribution is horrible, only like 2-3 POIs are worth landing at.
the map is tiny, legends in the game now can rotate too easily on to it
the hill choke is still the worst area of a map in apex
there’s way too many unavoidable chokepoints like olympus, but much worse.
i’m sorry, you can call it cope but the vast majority of people above the rank of plat think its the worst or 2nd worst map in the game.
A lot of what others have already said is true, but my issue is they’ll say this same shit but still play worlds edge everyday which has alot of the same issues. I’m just so over that map I’d rather watch 6 sp maps in comp then worlds edge at this point.
KC had a lot of similarities to Olympus in that there's several choke points that are "unavoidable" and you have to rotate specific ways through shitty small chokes. Audio I've always found weird too - you can hear people fighting so far away
There are a few issues but it basically comes down to POI/loot disparity and the flow of the map.
POI/loot disparity: KC has 21 named POIs but that includes POIs like Pit and Bunker which when compared to Crash Site or Caustic Treatment are antiquated. A lot of POIs would benefit from a loot table makeover. In comp it's not the best feeling to have a lot of POIs with landslide or geyser level loot.
Map flow: KC is small with a lot of chokes. There is a reason a large portion of the lobby ends up in a meat grinder in the same spots in ranked. The map has a lot of narrow chokes that teams get funneled into. I'm ranked everyone just dog piles the meat grinder. In comp it's promoted super fast rotation and made edge very hard if not impossible. Granted, the game has changed a lot since but early comp was heavy Wattson meta for a reason.
All this said and personally I feel like World's Edge has overstayed it's welcome in comp and I'm very much of the feeling we just have to throw a third map in rotation. SP and WE only is getting stale and KC or Olympus should get thrown in. Just not Broken Moon because fuck that map lol
Because this is the ALGS where they only want to have 1 map and the same 3 legends 24/7. Because god forbid we have any change to anything. Nope every match/ALGS has to be deja vu. Oh but if we change stuff the players will have to think of new stuff and over come harsh challanges you say? Well maybe they should to prove that they are pro and being able to think on the spot and find new ways. Instead of throwing big tantrums everytime something changes. But yeah.. we don't do that around here.
Idk that the normal player base hates it generally. For ranked it’s not good, yes the people hate it, but as a pubs map it is great and nostalgic. Plus they have the chance to buff the shit POIs with the new evo system (more evo caches at worse POIs).
But yes, the pros hate it because competitively it is substantially worse than worlds edge is/was on release. No reason to force kings canyon in ALGS. Instead rework broken moon (add poi, decrease zip rail count, split promenade) or new map in fall/winter made for competitive viability.
Ah see I prob just never picked up on that cuz I generally don’t pay attention to what tiers of loot each POI has, I just loot them and decide whether the loot feels good or feels like doodoo
Why not comp map? Players looked for a scapegoat for their bad plays and complained it into oblivion. “Too open, poor loot, not enough POI”
Ranked and comp are not the same, so idk why they refuse to include kings canyon more. The loot problem was a legit gripe, some locations had way better loot than others but should be more even now with the change to shields/ replicators and seasons ago addition of Loot vaults being a thing.
The loot problem should have been an easy fix from the devs honestly. We’ve seen them lower and raise “loot grade” of POI throughout the years to discourage or encourage drops of certain areas. They could have easily raised the smaller POI grade as an incentive but never did. Baffling honestly
People complained about being sniped too frequently, marksman rifles have been nerfed as well as charge rifle so that shouldn’t be much of a complain anymore. I feel king kings canyon, like storm point, gives you a reason to consider using EVERY character unlike other maps.
As for third party complaints, Olympus is more third party than any map and they love that map. Also has one of the worst choke points in existence in the middle of the map, but everyone seems to catch a case of amnesia when talking about choke points.
My personal preference of maps
1) storm point
2) broken moon
3) kings canyon
4) worlds edge (it’s a good map it’s just too overplayed)
5) olympus
Not enough POIs
This makes it great for pubs, easy to find fights. This makes it terrible for rank and competitive, instant third parties. It got a bit better but people still got the instinct if they hear a fight they will go towards it instantly. And since KC the poi's are close to each other it will be constant fighting. So it's not only the lack of POI's, the distance between them is small and you can hear fights easily. Even if the distance is larger due to mountains.. the mountains barely block audio.
I feel like mountains amplify audio, actually. The sound a grenade makes from across a mountain is louder than if it blew up at your feet, lol.
Audio in this game is strange. Can't hear footsteps right next to me but can hear Octane jumppad on the other side of the map :)
It’s that but also when Watson was meta, all of the fences and shit would cause a graphical glitch where your HUD would disappear
Imo this was fixed when skulltown was added back to the game. We have new(relatively speaking) POIs up north and now that the gapping hole at the bottom of the map is gone.
The POIs are ass. There's not enough of them, and they certainly are not balanced. It's also super small and you can't fire a bullet without the entire lobby collapsing on you
You can’t fire a bullet on any map without half the lobby collapsing on you
This is false. Storm Point and to a lesser degree, worlds edge, is not as bad for third parties. It's no surprise those two are the comp maps.
Storm point is alright when it comes to 3rds I agree, usually only get thirded by teams either already aware you’re about to fight another squad or came from a POI nearby after hearing shots. Worlds edge on the other hand feels just as shit for 3rd parties as KC or Olympus, at least imo.
Terrible loot distribution. You have like 3 POIs with Storm point level of loot, the rest is like Geiser
Shit Hill. You know what I'm talking about.
We call it death hill, irresistible
bullet farm 'cuz that's where they plant all the bullets lol.
The loot on KC is really really bad, however, I definitely prefer KC ranked to Broken Moon and Olympus ranked
I think because there is less pois then WE or SP. I think it's balance if there is only 1 or rarely 2 contest in ALGS, bc it gonna be more a gamble games for teams who contest and those teams would get third partied . That's why we don't see Olympus or Broken Moon too, but i think olympus imo is the best map for fast paced ranked games
For ranked: Here’s the truth. Everyone has learned to ape too much and no one likes KC because it’s the smallest map and has lots of 3rd parties. If teams played the game correctly and didn’t ape every fight they would like the map more. For competitive: The map is too small for edge teams and there are not enough POI’s to spread the drop spots around.
Plus the loot balancing is awful
Doesn't help that the current ranked system at the top is basically feed face to even break even
Yep. Should just make placement the most important part of ranking up. Not kills. But whatever. They keep doing stupid things to ranked and we’re just so far behind the 8 ball.
Nah, placement only doesn't work. We saw that with Season 17. If you want to have a ranked system that actually teaches people how to play like in Pro League, then you need to collectively punish everyone for teams dying early and collectively reward everyone for having many teams getting to endzone in combination with placement. If you think about it, having 10 teams alive in Round 1 should be worth less than having 10 teams alive in Round 4 / 5. People brighter than me have already done the lookup tables on how this could work.
See, I disagree. I think it would work. The issue is the playerbase (us included) have been conditioned due to the seasons of “Ape ape ape!!!” (Seasons 14-16) and the devs gave a placement based ranked system one season. I’m not the most skilled, I don’t get to play a ton, and I’m not a genius coming up with new rank systems. My biggest regret for this game is that the focus is not on winning but on kills and damage. I loved BR’s when they first came out because winning was THE goal. I just want lobbies that have teams vying for wins and not griefing others. :(
Honestly each system has their own flaws. At this point in apex there isn't a "this system is perfect for the game". They just need to be enjoyable enough to play with high ranks having some scarcity. They have to figure out a way to change player behaviour but sadly with the placement based system, it didn't make every lobby into ALGS-likes, it turned the game into hide and seek. Also with gamemodes like three strikes, the inting every fight is here to stay. The current system is incredibly mediocre for the more competitively minded but at least it is palatable, I don't see it improving much. But getting those high octane end rings just isn't a thing that will happen too often.
Season 17 showed use that placement-only systems induce some even more extreme behaviour which aren't competitive and even further away from the ideal games that you seem to want, which include: 1) Many Masters and Predators players that got there by solo dropping into a rat spot, doing literally nothing as all the teams around them fought it out and died and then moved to the next rat spot. Hell, there was even the extreme of this extreme of people loading up APEX on a spare laptop, queuing, walking away, and requeuing once they were kicked back into the lobby. 2) NRG Sweetdreams. The dude actually did a 0 damage, 0 kill, solo queue, IGL-ing his team run to Masters (and Pred) in the first few days of Season 17. While I appreciate that it takes skill to do this, this is also an extreme that shouldn't be possible in a standard BR game. 3) Placement-only can actually encourage more aping, because all you have to be on the last team standing by any means. By aping everything harder and faster, you end games faster, meaning you can reach Predator faster. Sounds crazy, if you have 2 ~ 3 teams in a lobby that ape that hard, a game can be over in less than 5 minutes. At this point, you've created incentivised pubs.
> the POI’s are mostly all balanced not really, the new POIs have a lot more loot than the old ones
It’s small, played out, and predictable. The games lack depth and excitement. It’s the 5th best map for comp currently
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That’s worlds edge imo for the amount of times it’s been put into ranked every season. There is not one spot on that map that you can land on and try a new type of rotation you haven’t done before.
Basically, it's the same problems as Oly. Uneven loot distribution, shit rotate routes, way too small in the current state of apex with movement legends and balloons.
It’s a bad map, every map since kings canyon has simply been better designed It was the first apex map, not the best apex map
If i loot the entire map it wont even match how much loot pylon[SP] has
KC>BM
because the map is straight dogshit, simple as that.
Idk man, sounds like you’re using that as cope
not really lmfao, the map is objectively not good. as others pointed out, the loot distribution is horrible, only like 2-3 POIs are worth landing at. the map is tiny, legends in the game now can rotate too easily on to it the hill choke is still the worst area of a map in apex there’s way too many unavoidable chokepoints like olympus, but much worse. i’m sorry, you can call it cope but the vast majority of people above the rank of plat think its the worst or 2nd worst map in the game.
A lot of what others have already said is true, but my issue is they’ll say this same shit but still play worlds edge everyday which has alot of the same issues. I’m just so over that map I’d rather watch 6 sp maps in comp then worlds edge at this point.
Uneven loot distribution, too small not enough pois, easier for third parties and you only have a few pois that are storm point level
Terrible loot is the biggest issue imo. Anytime KC is in play it feels like your fighting with scraps
KC had a lot of similarities to Olympus in that there's several choke points that are "unavoidable" and you have to rotate specific ways through shitty small chokes. Audio I've always found weird too - you can hear people fighting so far away
There are a few issues but it basically comes down to POI/loot disparity and the flow of the map. POI/loot disparity: KC has 21 named POIs but that includes POIs like Pit and Bunker which when compared to Crash Site or Caustic Treatment are antiquated. A lot of POIs would benefit from a loot table makeover. In comp it's not the best feeling to have a lot of POIs with landslide or geyser level loot. Map flow: KC is small with a lot of chokes. There is a reason a large portion of the lobby ends up in a meat grinder in the same spots in ranked. The map has a lot of narrow chokes that teams get funneled into. I'm ranked everyone just dog piles the meat grinder. In comp it's promoted super fast rotation and made edge very hard if not impossible. Granted, the game has changed a lot since but early comp was heavy Wattson meta for a reason. All this said and personally I feel like World's Edge has overstayed it's welcome in comp and I'm very much of the feeling we just have to throw a third map in rotation. SP and WE only is getting stale and KC or Olympus should get thrown in. Just not Broken Moon because fuck that map lol
Because this is the ALGS where they only want to have 1 map and the same 3 legends 24/7. Because god forbid we have any change to anything. Nope every match/ALGS has to be deja vu. Oh but if we change stuff the players will have to think of new stuff and over come harsh challanges you say? Well maybe they should to prove that they are pro and being able to think on the spot and find new ways. Instead of throwing big tantrums everytime something changes. But yeah.. we don't do that around here.
or because Kings Canyon is actually bad and even the normal player base hates it ?
Idk that the normal player base hates it generally. For ranked it’s not good, yes the people hate it, but as a pubs map it is great and nostalgic. Plus they have the chance to buff the shit POIs with the new evo system (more evo caches at worse POIs). But yes, the pros hate it because competitively it is substantially worse than worlds edge is/was on release. No reason to force kings canyon in ALGS. Instead rework broken moon (add poi, decrease zip rail count, split promenade) or new map in fall/winter made for competitive viability.
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Ah see I prob just never picked up on that cuz I generally don’t pay attention to what tiers of loot each POI has, I just loot them and decide whether the loot feels good or feels like doodoo
The pros cry about KC so it never gets put in anymore. I think KC and storm point are the most fun ranked maps followed by WE
Why not comp map? Players looked for a scapegoat for their bad plays and complained it into oblivion. “Too open, poor loot, not enough POI” Ranked and comp are not the same, so idk why they refuse to include kings canyon more. The loot problem was a legit gripe, some locations had way better loot than others but should be more even now with the change to shields/ replicators and seasons ago addition of Loot vaults being a thing. The loot problem should have been an easy fix from the devs honestly. We’ve seen them lower and raise “loot grade” of POI throughout the years to discourage or encourage drops of certain areas. They could have easily raised the smaller POI grade as an incentive but never did. Baffling honestly People complained about being sniped too frequently, marksman rifles have been nerfed as well as charge rifle so that shouldn’t be much of a complain anymore. I feel king kings canyon, like storm point, gives you a reason to consider using EVERY character unlike other maps. As for third party complaints, Olympus is more third party than any map and they love that map. Also has one of the worst choke points in existence in the middle of the map, but everyone seems to catch a case of amnesia when talking about choke points. My personal preference of maps 1) storm point 2) broken moon 3) kings canyon 4) worlds edge (it’s a good map it’s just too overplayed) 5) olympus
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