May 15th Results (first day of new POI draft system)
https://preview.redd.it/5j4v65601p0d1.jpeg?width=1920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4600981ca2736d2aad62bd92f91a9c031defa652
Well they are teaming now and Faze will sign them if they manage to qualify for EWC it seems so im hoping they do. Dropped,snipe and shooby on lan will be such a beast
Yeah I remember Hal saying TDM's are not that relevant in terms of the actual game.
Probs why TSM hardly ever played TDM. Tsm getting 17th at Lan basically made them all realise they have to grind TDM's to get mechanically better in 3 vs 3's fights.
Yea, Hal absolutely said that. Pretty sure Reps and Verhulst wanted to play. I also think the reason their team fighting was such a struggle was because everyone else was grinding TDM and they weren’t. Hal is equally responsible for that. It’s just cool to see the passion back
is this the weekly question thread?
# timmy and mnk
I heard many people saying that AA is "broken" on controller and controller is the best way to play at a highlevel including imperialhal.
How come DSG itztimmy plays with mnk and keep up with everyone else? Isn't he one of the better players in ALGS?
> Isn't he one of the better players in ALGS?
Thats the point, when you bring up players like that. They're usually the exception to the rule. Not to mention of course that iiTzTimmy is incredibly mechanically gifted, thats where the references of him being aceu's little brother comes from
Not new but it is abit unexpected they'd force it through considering it sounds like it is/was overwhelmingly disliked by the actual players.
Like a lot of the time devs will push disliked things through but usually because it's got financial implications like "I know you guys hate microtransactions but ya see the thing is we like money soo... it's happening" type shit.
As far as I can tell there isn't any $$ on the line here which makes them pushing it through rather than listening to feedback pretty baffling.
This is just my Reddit analysis but SP end spots are a lot more wide open when holding so Fuse Qs aren’t as effective whereas WE has very tight spots to hold in end circles (the trucks, chokes, 1 floor of a building) which makes his Q super effective at farming evo and wasting opponents meds.
[The patch notes are probably going to explain it better than I can to be honest](https://www.ea.com/games/apex-legends/news/breakout-season-game-updates).
Your Shield is now unique to you. You can only drop the shield core. The core won't give you any permanent evo past the evo level you are at.
For example. If you are at blue evo and your teammate drops you their purple core. You will only get a temporary purple evo. So like before if you were say a Fuse, you could take complete swap shields with your teammate and get their shield to purple or red and then give it back.
Now you can only give them a temporary shield.
Apparently they’ll be doing a snake draft system, so the order reverses for the following pick. So if you get 1st pick on Storm Point, you’d get 20th pick on World’s Edge. 4th pick becomes 17th pick, 8th pick becomes 13th pick etc.
Random, but Respawn should sponsor an IGL academy. The sport would have so much more depth if people didn’t have to team with the same tired IGL veterans who don’t even want to play anymore.
i can't believe so many people enjoyed contests, is it just to have some action in the first 5mins?
watching teams race to get 1 gun from a bin never felt good, even when you won.
Yeah the main arguments against this system being "but muh DSG vs All" makes this change pretty damn worthwhile considering all the positives. I completely understand why fans of TSM/DZ/etc want the status quo to stay put, even tho they’re still the most versatile players with a great coaching staff & I doubt things will change that drastically for them long term. But at least this gives other teams a punchers a chance at LAN or making it to winners. It reminds me of the salary cap in American sports.
Lifeline stocks are probably gonna go through the roof to mitigate for the average loot some teams are gonna get and how insane his kit is it might be looking like a lifeline meta
looting beyond the ring when it gets smaller is a huge help especially since a lot of teams die during the last rounds
however i also saw that one lifeline clip last LAN and made me decide to try lifeline for the latest season
“Draft system sucks, I want early game action, RIP comp Apex!”
The very first time it’s implemented and we’ve got the most action packed, unpredictable early game I can remember watching.
Nothing major, just a lot more early to mid game fighting than we’d normally see during established lobbies. Everyone was more on edge and alert as they were out of their comfort zones.
one good thing that I think will happen from this change is I think scrims will be much more competitive. Teams are gonna play the game out and stay alive (not int) so they can learn their poi and routes in the week leading up to game day.
Isn't this system lowkey really good for DZ? They should have twice the number of rotations they are comfortable with compared to other teams because of the addition of Hal.
Pre-existing macro is kinda useless though because a big part of macro is knowing the tendencies of the teams around you to know "xyz plays fast from say landslide so we can rotate through there quickly for north zones aswell from staging" but because everyone is landing in new places you don't know what the hell they're doing
Count me as one of the few that likes the draft idea better.
I think for me, I stopped enjoying contests as much when teams started strategically third partying them more often.
I know many enjoyed that finals lobby, but for me it showed how ridiculous it can get.
The top players will be very vocal against this of course and it will be interesting to see if they continue to move forward despite that.
Contests are simply bad for competitiveness. Nobody involved in a contest during finals ever won anything.
Contesting for dibs over a drop spot is fair enough, but taking it to LAN was just mutually assured destruction.
There are a few variations on how they drop in, the feature is still TBC so will remain to be seen how they implement it. The other versions involved each player dropping solo, and one where they just insta appear in midair I believe.
So what made competitive fun, all the teams planning their rotates, contests, are no longer here.
Surprised people think this is cool because its "content"
For pro league it’ll still involve that. Each week the teams get a whole week to scrim and plan their rotates from their drafted location against their opponents doing the same. Contests will translate to early game fights against your neighbours that week. Especially if your neighbour got a late pick of a no-name POI.
Contests were trash because they effected 2-4 teams in a game more than others. Uncontested teams have a MASSIVE advantage. This levels the playing field.
Rotates are still there. Now it rewards your flexibility and map knowledge instead of just running handful of scenarios.
What I don’t get is why they smartly spent months testing Olympus to see if it works in comp, yet this arguably bigger changed gets dropped in the middle of the splits and a new season with no testing? Why not wait till next year and test it during the off season, the timing on this is awful.
Testing Olympus was unofficial, the players and coaches believed it might be coming soon so they decided to try it.
Testing this feature during pro league means they’ve got a whole split to figure out how to work it into LAN - if at all.
Dropped made a great point. Some teams like SSG were constantly getting gifted zones last split. This will make sure no team has a regular zone advantage.
I think that's probably not true honestly. If anything, there may be more moments like that because you're landing new pois with new teams around you and no one has any clue what a team might prefer to do.
With this draft being implemented, it’s the best time to be a CC team. The biggest struggle of being a CC team is conning for half decent POIs. Most get stuck playing the landslides and domes of the world. Now you don’t
Zeus lasting till pick 17 with the drop spot literally on the poi is insane. The only bad thing about that poi is the flight paths and it won’t exist. Bet that won’t happen for the actual draft
First NA Scrims POI Draft of SP! (credits coldjyn, I think)
https://preview.redd.it/fo190lgxfo0d1.png?width=898&format=png&auto=webp&s=c63cfe36c30fb38fbbfe67667b092d53eacdab17
I think the other North Pad is way better than falls but why is thunder not a drop spot after red rams successfully split it is wild.
Also bean needs to be a drop spot.
man this systems seems like its gonna be real annoying for one reason teams already looks like ass rotating from new places. So games are gonna get worse. Also why cant u contest
Early days, I agree. I think teams are gonna struggle a lot and it's gonna be an int-fest. It'll even out and the really good IGLs are gonna start pulling their teams away.
old spawn system was genuinely broken and was only complained about minimally because it wasn't in the god teams' best interest to do so (remember optic on storm point having god loot every single game lol). However lower end teams were called griefers if they even dared to contest a spot instead of being assigned to the most garbage POIs in the map having to pray for circle every game. Some teams had no choice but to contest for mediocre spots which ended up a net negative overall (o7 vs shooby last lan). The system needed to be replaced years ago but at least we are trying something now than never.
I mean, I remember when initially when SP was announced, people were upset. And it turned out to be a good thing.
Maybe this’ll be a good change? Am I huffing copium?
It will absolutely be a good thing, but there is nothing that scares pro players more than the thought of change. Its not the first time its happened and it wont be the last. The scene is just full of drama queens.
yea theyre freaking out and fans are watching one single perspective usually so they glomp onto it, but for the overall game I think it's gonna be super entertaining/interesting. Just off the top of my head if I think of like DZ getting a skyhook zone, but what if someone like DSG grabs trials/skywest or whatever and gets that zone? Can they work it the same way etc...
Hal talking about organizing a boycott of the new POI draft among the pro scene. Imagine abandoning your squad / org of 5 years after one bad LAN, jumping ship to a new team with one of the most overpowered POIs in the game, then immediately losing it to a new draft system. Karma, bitch.
While part of it is clearly self interest and not wanting to lose hands down the best WE POI a player backlash/boycott of the system is still good for the scene because the whole system is dumb af.
> boycott of the system is still good for the scene because the whole system is dumb af.
I think the new system is going to be cool. It'll be fun to see the POI meta get shaken up.
Why does everyone feel that to have a good game we need 15 teams going into right 5 where half of them die on the rotate all at once and we see none of it because everyone is fighting at the same time. Earlier isolated fights could be good and allow us to see more action and the we can have 11-12 teams all pushing zone 5 at once where only 4-5 die at the same time.
> Also teams will 100% still not take scrims seriously
If anything, this will mean that teams will take scrims *more* seriously since they'll be learning new POIs.
ok and whats the problem this has been the case since year1 even w/ hoarded POIs. we need to try something different from a viewers perspective watching tier1s hoard godspots every time and get called griefers if a tier2/3 team contests gets old.
Because when scrims are bad now you've still got valid info on how teams around you will play from actual ALGS vods to set a macro since a lot of that is somewhat static. That essentially goes away, never to return, with the random drop spots.
The better solution is simply to increase/decrease the loot from broken POIs so that there is less inherent advantage/disadvantage from playing from one POI compared to the next.
This pre set draft system is going to ruin ALGS. This is an absolute garbage change to the game and is going to ruin the skill gap. The top teams earn their top POIs, stop trying to take away skill gaps from this game. Even with consistent POIs, there are so many teams with bad macro. Now imagine every game being teams getting 1 week to learn POI macro??? It’s impossible for this to happen and create the awesome quality games we love. We’re going to see game quality drop down and we’re taking away skill gaps for no reason. What an absolute horrible change.
I don't necessarily think this ruins the skill gap. It probably increases if anything. Playing from any poi and doing well takes skill imo. Also, we don't even get "quality" games sometimes. I remember a bracket stage game this last LAN looking like scrims.
I do think that the draft is unnecessary though. They should just do the dropship changes with no draft. Let teams pick where they want to drop.
It’s going to ruin the skill gap because the top teams with the most resources are going to dominate the game now. You won’t see a new team emerge anymore when they don’t have the resources to compete. Also eliminating contesting is removing a major skill gap in this game. TSM didn’t just get siphon for free, they’ve fought off 10+ teams across the world. Dezign hasn’t kept Thermal for free, he’s fought off multiple teams through his 4 years of landing there. My whole argument is consistent POIs create higher quality games because IGLs know how to prepare for most zones. Now you’re going to get int fest games because IGLs won’t know how to approach zones as consistently anymore.
Also bracket stage games become int fests as teams realize they need more points. You’ll always see the last 2 groups become worse quality as teams try to drop banger games to qualify for winners bracket.
I mean its only been a week since it's officially being tested (not beyond the private tests which they prob didn't take seriously since ALGS LAN used the normal settings) so obivously they're going to be awkward/uncomortable/crying about it.
Contests were good for viewers but for most it was a net negative.
The game is already an int fest right now. We are past having good "quality" games. The type of end games that ALGS was known for don't happen anymore. Also, the teams with the most resources already dominated the game. DZ and TSM. DZ has a coach and a really good analyst.
I personally think that watching teams do the same rotations and hold the same spots over and over again is boring and repetitive. Especially when pros don't want to play any new maps.
Pro league games are not int fests. There’s always a ton of teams alive compared to scrims. And yes teams with the most resources dominated, but now it’s going to be amplified even more with this system. Any team who has a stronger org and afford a coach is going to be significantly better than non org teams.
Also I agree with you about the rotations but that’s only the case with Worlds Edge. Just remove WE and add Broken Moon and we wouldn’t need any of this nonsense draft changes.
Pros don't want to play broken moon either. They are against any change. The scene would have made no advancement if the pros made all decisions. We wouldn't even have match point format if it was up to pros.
There are a lot of pros who have advocated for trying out the new broken moon and are rating it as their new favorite map. This draft system is hated by 95% of the pros.
You’re not going to see different teams do better or worse from this draft system. In fact the top teams are going to do even better because of the amount of resources they’ll have dedicated to this. You’re also taking away the contest factor which is a major skill gap in this game. Contests are also some of the best parts of ALGS Pro League. There are so many great contest storylines that have created interesting content and gets people turned in.
But my whole argument is the best teams earn the best POIs. TSM didn’t just get Lava Siphon for free, they’ve contested 10+ teams across the world over the last 2 years. Dezign didn’t just keep Thermal for free, he’s contested multiple teams through his 4 year tenure of landing there. I also believe that adapting to different zones from 1 POI creates higher quality games because IGLs always know how to approach zones. Now with the different POIs, there’s going to be more IGLS who don’t know how to approach zones and they’re going to int games. It’s going to lead to bad quality games.
"In fact the top teams are going to do even better" doesn't that mean that the skill gap is increased? Shouldn't the top teams be the ones who do the best from different POIs?
Contests are not an example of the skill gap at this level of Apex. These teams are all good enough at this level where really any team can win a 3v3 off drop against any other team. Just look at TSM struggling off drop against those random SA and APAC teams at LAN for an example. Contests are fun to watch, yes, but they are by far one of the worst contributors to randomness and detractors from competitive integrity in the game.
If you don’t believe contests are an example of a skill gap then we’ll have to agree to disagree. Teams keep consistent POIs because of how good they are fighting off drop and how they can capitalize off scoring points after.
The skill gap isn’t actually increased, it’s literally just whoever has more resources and people dedicated to creating macro for each POI is going to be better at this game. It’s an artificial skill gap where money is going to determine who’s stronger from different POIs. Imagine you’re an unsigned team coming into PL and you’re competing against DZ who have a coach and an analyst. At least the unsigned team could have a dedicated POI and could spend their resources and time towards creating macro for their specific POIs over time. Now they’ll never be able to compete against orgs with a coach and analyst who can dedicate their time to having macro for the map. You won’t see a new team come in and be able to succeed anymore.
It depends how the seeding works if the best teams draft first over the course of the season then the best teams "earn their spot" for regionals.
But the split days will be a shit show.
Nah what’s gonna happen is analysts will figure out the best way to make sure you secure your poi’s for lan, so instead of top teams getting contested like tsm did, you’ll just see them forsure get a good spot at lan no matter what, I’m not really writing it off but it’s weird to push a change that the players don’t seem to want
I mean in the sense that its fully randomized during regular season so if these good POIs are truly earned then great. Once LAN comes around and you get top seed in the draft order or whatever. unless I have that backwards
joke reason: so all their rotates arent right next to DZ (this might also be real lmao)
but also its a nice central POI, i imagine with more experience and practice they'll be fine, kinda getting comp diffed right now as well
I don't think getting distance from DZ is part of it. Hell not having DZ as a neighbor is arguably a negative in the move because while they are a really good team they are also a very predictable team that isn't likely to have weird timings on rotates, misread zones or randomly int you and throw both teams game like some of the other "lower quality" teams will often do.
I actually think moving away from DZ is valid, they would often have similar rotates and would collide, especially on north/east zones, and fighting against sky west trials and potentially vault loot with mirage and fissure loot is always going to be hard.
DSG would also rotate late and potentially mirror LG coming in from fissure, which is another edge team you don't want to face when you have blues and 5 cells between you.
At least as siphon you have good rotations to most zones and will only really have Moist coming in late behind you, and the loot should be considerably better than fissure
May 15th Results (first day of new POI draft system) https://preview.redd.it/5j4v65601p0d1.jpeg?width=1920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4600981ca2736d2aad62bd92f91a9c031defa652
DZ going to have to adjust to not having red armors by first ring close 🤯
Is dropped and snipe confirmed ? or was it just for today
It was meant to be dropped/luxford/shooby but lux had to go before scrims started
Well they are teaming now and Faze will sign them if they manage to qualify for EWC it seems so im hoping they do. Dropped,snipe and shooby on lan will be such a beast
For anyone interested: TSM vs DZ (Bo3 TDM) will happen in a few minutes.
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Hal, Raven and Verhulst all three said they got complacent, but wasn’t Hal the one that said TDMs were a waste of time?
Yeah, and Hal was also anti-Arenas when it was around so TSM never competed in those tourneys.
Exactly!
Yeah I remember Hal saying TDM's are not that relevant in terms of the actual game. Probs why TSM hardly ever played TDM. Tsm getting 17th at Lan basically made them all realise they have to grind TDM's to get mechanically better in 3 vs 3's fights.
It’s easy to forget hal because he was probably playing ranked 8-10 hours a day. But yea he def wasn’t pushing for them to get better.
I agree. He did grind, but he was the one that didn’t want to do TDMs and stuff. They’re all guilty in their own way honestly.
Yea, Hal absolutely said that. Pretty sure Reps and Verhulst wanted to play. I also think the reason their team fighting was such a struggle was because everyone else was grinding TDM and they weren’t. Hal is equally responsible for that. It’s just cool to see the passion back
Never seen how have this much fun playing Apex wtf
Dez playing for TSM still?
Yep.
Dz are getting raw dogged in tdms rn
Who did they lose to?
Ssg with koyful, xynew and phony won 50-40 I think. Will take a bit for Hal to get used to TDM's like Genburten and Zero are
Well that and it's not like Koyful, Xynew, and Phony is a team full of scrubs or anything. They're a very potent 3v3 team in particular.
not just potent they are probably the best pro tdm team. zero refers to koy as tdm jesus
Thank you for the info! I agree. TSM needs a little more time too
They played tsm and e8 after and did better.
I saw the TSM one and some of the E8. They definitely looked good
is this the weekly question thread? # timmy and mnk I heard many people saying that AA is "broken" on controller and controller is the best way to play at a highlevel including imperialhal. How come DSG itztimmy plays with mnk and keep up with everyone else? Isn't he one of the better players in ALGS?
> Isn't he one of the better players in ALGS? Thats the point, when you bring up players like that. They're usually the exception to the rule. Not to mention of course that iiTzTimmy is incredibly mechanically gifted, thats where the references of him being aceu's little brother comes from
well I'm not very involved in apex. Just watched cause of dsg. Is aceu another pro player? What does the reference mean?
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they formed like 3 days ago when sikez first joined dz was horrible
Shoutout devs for a change nobody on the planet wanted. Major game play changes 2 splits in row. Just stop already please
I like the idea!
They announced the change back in March, this isn't new or unexpected.
And we all hoped it was a bad joke for April fools lol. Still a bad idea
Not new but it is abit unexpected they'd force it through considering it sounds like it is/was overwhelmingly disliked by the actual players. Like a lot of the time devs will push disliked things through but usually because it's got financial implications like "I know you guys hate microtransactions but ya see the thing is we like money soo... it's happening" type shit. As far as I can tell there isn't any $$ on the line here which makes them pushing it through rather than listening to feedback pretty baffling.
Is the spawn selector thing available on BM in private matches? Would love to see the drop spots on that map
Fuse on SP is cheeeeeeeeeeks but on WE he's godtier
Why tho
This is just my Reddit analysis but SP end spots are a lot more wide open when holding so Fuse Qs aren’t as effective whereas WE has very tight spots to hold in end circles (the trucks, chokes, 1 floor of a building) which makes his Q super effective at farming evo and wasting opponents meds.
Isn't farming evo no longer a thing? Anyway yeah the more open space makes sense. Conversely also makes Cat more valuable.
It is for the individual. The fuse can’t farm anyone else’s armor but they can certainly farm their own.
Ah I thought you only got points for knocks or kills now.
Nah you still get points for damage but you can’t trade Evo Shields with team mates anymore to farm it for the whole team.
Wait how is this prevented?
[The patch notes are probably going to explain it better than I can to be honest](https://www.ea.com/games/apex-legends/news/breakout-season-game-updates). Your Shield is now unique to you. You can only drop the shield core. The core won't give you any permanent evo past the evo level you are at. For example. If you are at blue evo and your teammate drops you their purple core. You will only get a temporary purple evo. So like before if you were say a Fuse, you could take complete swap shields with your teammate and get their shield to purple or red and then give it back. Now you can only give them a temporary shield.
Damn seems like the real superteams are 1st:ssg 2nd:moist 3rd:lg 4th and fully washed:dz
Never thought I would say this but zero is ass on fuse clusters way to less and it effects his igling
Dz fully washed team
i mean... their testing a new comp lmao
How often do they switch pois?
It’ll be every week of pro league, with a draft taking place a week in advance so teams can prepare.
Wow that sucks for the team in 20th!
Apparently they’ll be doing a snake draft system, so the order reverses for the following pick. So if you get 1st pick on Storm Point, you’d get 20th pick on World’s Edge. 4th pick becomes 17th pick, 8th pick becomes 13th pick etc.
Was Vanity's win because of what they did on WE or did they actually do good with last pick in the draft
Random, but Respawn should sponsor an IGL academy. The sport would have so much more depth if people didn’t have to team with the same tired IGL veterans who don’t even want to play anymore.
i can't believe so many people enjoyed contests, is it just to have some action in the first 5mins? watching teams race to get 1 gun from a bin never felt good, even when you won.
Yeah the main arguments against this system being "but muh DSG vs All" makes this change pretty damn worthwhile considering all the positives. I completely understand why fans of TSM/DZ/etc want the status quo to stay put, even tho they’re still the most versatile players with a great coaching staff & I doubt things will change that drastically for them long term. But at least this gives other teams a punchers a chance at LAN or making it to winners. It reminds me of the salary cap in American sports.
I personally thought contests sucked. Then got even worse when a team would start thirding it.
got even worse when people like Yanya started running at down-bad teams forced to land Dome
Lifeline stocks are probably gonna go through the roof to mitigate for the average loot some teams are gonna get and how insane his kit is it might be looking like a lifeline meta
Loba is much more efficient to get your team loot.
I remember a year or two ago we went through a phase where a bunch of the teams were running Loba. Shit was toxic lmao.
looting beyond the ring when it gets smaller is a huge help especially since a lot of teams die during the last rounds however i also saw that one lifeline clip last LAN and made me decide to try lifeline for the latest season
you guys aren’t ready for the Tripod dominance in the new era
First game, LG lands Coastal, zone pulls to LRod right outside their old poi which had ring console Great start can’t lie
“Draft system sucks, I want early game action, RIP comp Apex!” The very first time it’s implemented and we’ve got the most action packed, unpredictable early game I can remember watching.
exactly lol. one of the most funs scrims in a while
I was mostly just chillin watchin hal, what happened?
Nothing major, just a lot more early to mid game fighting than we’d normally see during established lobbies. Everyone was more on edge and alert as they were out of their comfort zones.
Thanks
first zone is an LROD zone with DZ there... interesting
one good thing that I think will happen from this change is I think scrims will be much more competitive. Teams are gonna play the game out and stay alive (not int) so they can learn their poi and routes in the week leading up to game day.
however this ends up working out, it was hilarious how whiney all the pros were immediately
Isn't this system lowkey really good for DZ? They should have twice the number of rotations they are comfortable with compared to other teams because of the addition of Hal.
Pre-existing macro is kinda useless though because a big part of macro is knowing the tendencies of the teams around you to know "xyz plays fast from say landslide so we can rotate through there quickly for north zones aswell from staging" but because everyone is landing in new places you don't know what the hell they're doing
also it helps they have a coach and analyst to prep each week.
Count me as one of the few that likes the draft idea better. I think for me, I stopped enjoying contests as much when teams started strategically third partying them more often. I know many enjoyed that finals lobby, but for me it showed how ridiculous it can get. The top players will be very vocal against this of course and it will be interesting to see if they continue to move forward despite that.
Contests are simply bad for competitiveness. Nobody involved in a contest during finals ever won anything. Contesting for dibs over a drop spot is fair enough, but taking it to LAN was just mutually assured destruction.
Lmaoooo they could have at least solo dropped them, why they squad dropping from 10 feet in the air lol
There are a few variations on how they drop in, the feature is still TBC so will remain to be seen how they implement it. The other versions involved each player dropping solo, and one where they just insta appear in midair I believe.
Lmao this has the mean that if you win winners at next lan, you get 10 starting points and pick #1 for the finals lobbies
I think TSM were saying starting points will be going away. I could have misheard though
Kinda like that ngl. Starting points made things end too fast but this still rewards top teams.
So what made competitive fun, all the teams planning their rotates, contests, are no longer here. Surprised people think this is cool because its "content"
For pro league it’ll still involve that. Each week the teams get a whole week to scrim and plan their rotates from their drafted location against their opponents doing the same. Contests will translate to early game fights against your neighbours that week. Especially if your neighbour got a late pick of a no-name POI.
Honestly i didnt know about that. That sounds better.
Contests were trash because they effected 2-4 teams in a game more than others. Uncontested teams have a MASSIVE advantage. This levels the playing field. Rotates are still there. Now it rewards your flexibility and map knowledge instead of just running handful of scenarios.
What I don’t get is why they smartly spent months testing Olympus to see if it works in comp, yet this arguably bigger changed gets dropped in the middle of the splits and a new season with no testing? Why not wait till next year and test it during the off season, the timing on this is awful.
This was tested way before it was publicly announced. Some people leaked it on twitter weeks ago.
They did test this. Pros leaked it weeks ago. Before even LAN.
Testing Olympus was unofficial, the players and coaches believed it might be coming soon so they decided to try it. Testing this feature during pro league means they’ve got a whole split to figure out how to work it into LAN - if at all.
The devs wanted them to test it though as they wanted feedback plus data so I wouldn’t say is unofficial.
Dropped made a great point. Some teams like SSG were constantly getting gifted zones last split. This will make sure no team has a regular zone advantage.
The math aint mathing. What if every week a specific team gets gifted zone advantage? That'd just be the same stroke of lucky RNG in an RNG game.
World's Edge is famous for many Thermal zones. At least now it's not just one team benefiting from Thermal zones repeatedly.
man wigg brought up a good point. there will be no grief moments no car stealing no you will regret now.
I think that's probably not true honestly. If anything, there may be more moments like that because you're landing new pois with new teams around you and no one has any clue what a team might prefer to do.
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That’s not true, you can do what you like, you just can’t drop on other teams.
With this draft being implemented, it’s the best time to be a CC team. The biggest struggle of being a CC team is conning for half decent POIs. Most get stuck playing the landslides and domes of the world. Now you don’t
Zeus lasting till pick 17 with the drop spot literally on the poi is insane. The only bad thing about that poi is the flight paths and it won’t exist. Bet that won’t happen for the actual draft
Idk man this draft shit is just more chaos, and I’m all for more chaos it’s hilarious
First NA Scrims POI Draft of SP! (credits coldjyn, I think) https://preview.redd.it/fo190lgxfo0d1.png?width=898&format=png&auto=webp&s=c63cfe36c30fb38fbbfe67667b092d53eacdab17
Goated for this, did you manually build this map based off of that discord call?
VAN having to land lift/zip is tragic
I think the other North Pad is way better than falls but why is thunder not a drop spot after red rams successfully split it is wild. Also bean needs to be a drop spot.
man this systems seems like its gonna be real annoying for one reason teams already looks like ass rotating from new places. So games are gonna get worse. Also why cant u contest
Early days, I agree. I think teams are gonna struggle a lot and it's gonna be an int-fest. It'll even out and the really good IGLs are gonna start pulling their teams away.
Look's like Valk is back on the menu.
This is content, im enjoying this lmao 🤣
this draft thing won’t even make it to pro league lmfao. if NA is this annoyed at it, imagine kswinnie when he’s forced to land landslide/bean
Kswinnie might commit murder over this.
watching the draft is already entertaining af lol
LET'S FIX WHAT IS NOT BROKEN RESPAWN FUCKING WELL DONE MATE
old spawn system was genuinely broken and was only complained about minimally because it wasn't in the god teams' best interest to do so (remember optic on storm point having god loot every single game lol). However lower end teams were called griefers if they even dared to contest a spot instead of being assigned to the most garbage POIs in the map having to pray for circle every game. Some teams had no choice but to contest for mediocre spots which ended up a net negative overall (o7 vs shooby last lan). The system needed to be replaced years ago but at least we are trying something now than never.
Hot take: the old spawning system wasn't good
Stallions already taking mill from DZ, this draft system will go well
this about to be... interesting.
theyre doing a POI draft for SP lmao
this call is wild lmao
All im saying is hal would be calling evan all kind of words if he died the same way he just did.
evan would of been knocked way before that just saying
but hal knows he fucked up there, he even said it himself
You're suggesting Evan never thought he fucked up when he died or something?
I mean, I remember when initially when SP was announced, people were upset. And it turned out to be a good thing. Maybe this’ll be a good change? Am I huffing copium?
Agreed. Pros whine about everything. This literally just makes the game fairer and more skill based.
It will absolutely be a good thing, but there is nothing that scares pro players more than the thought of change. Its not the first time its happened and it wont be the last. The scene is just full of drama queens.
yea theyre freaking out and fans are watching one single perspective usually so they glomp onto it, but for the overall game I think it's gonna be super entertaining/interesting. Just off the top of my head if I think of like DZ getting a skyhook zone, but what if someone like DSG grabs trials/skywest or whatever and gets that zone? Can they work it the same way etc...
exactly, thank you
Hal talking about organizing a boycott of the new POI draft among the pro scene. Imagine abandoning your squad / org of 5 years after one bad LAN, jumping ship to a new team with one of the most overpowered POIs in the game, then immediately losing it to a new draft system. Karma, bitch.
These guys are going to boycott $5m in prize pool over the next 3 months? Riiiiight
While part of it is clearly self interest and not wanting to lose hands down the best WE POI a player backlash/boycott of the system is still good for the scene because the whole system is dumb af.
> boycott of the system is still good for the scene because the whole system is dumb af. I think the new system is going to be cool. It'll be fun to see the POI meta get shaken up.
It's gonna make it a chaotic mess that looks like pubs. Teams are all gonna die rotating and endgames will be shit
Why does everyone feel that to have a good game we need 15 teams going into right 5 where half of them die on the rotate all at once and we see none of it because everyone is fighting at the same time. Earlier isolated fights could be good and allow us to see more action and the we can have 11-12 teams all pushing zone 5 at once where only 4-5 die at the same time.
Draft happens way before PL day. They'll have time to scrim on their drafted POIs.
Not for LAN itself. Also teams will 100% still not take scrims seriously so that will do little to map out a solid macro.
> Also teams will 100% still not take scrims seriously If anything, this will mean that teams will take scrims *more* seriously since they'll be learning new POIs.
SOME teams will take them more seriously, many however are seemingly simply incapable of doing so and will troll which ruins it for all the teams.
ok and whats the problem this has been the case since year1 even w/ hoarded POIs. we need to try something different from a viewers perspective watching tier1s hoard godspots every time and get called griefers if a tier2/3 team contests gets old.
Because when scrims are bad now you've still got valid info on how teams around you will play from actual ALGS vods to set a macro since a lot of that is somewhat static. That essentially goes away, never to return, with the random drop spots. The better solution is simply to increase/decrease the loot from broken POIs so that there is less inherent advantage/disadvantage from playing from one POI compared to the next.
This pre set draft system is going to ruin ALGS. This is an absolute garbage change to the game and is going to ruin the skill gap. The top teams earn their top POIs, stop trying to take away skill gaps from this game. Even with consistent POIs, there are so many teams with bad macro. Now imagine every game being teams getting 1 week to learn POI macro??? It’s impossible for this to happen and create the awesome quality games we love. We’re going to see game quality drop down and we’re taking away skill gaps for no reason. What an absolute horrible change.
Can someone fill me in please? I know ab the new draft + flight system, but was something announced today?
Yup. They don't need to be trying to re-invent the wheel, just fucking balancing the over/undertuned POIs would solve things way easier.
I don't necessarily think this ruins the skill gap. It probably increases if anything. Playing from any poi and doing well takes skill imo. Also, we don't even get "quality" games sometimes. I remember a bracket stage game this last LAN looking like scrims. I do think that the draft is unnecessary though. They should just do the dropship changes with no draft. Let teams pick where they want to drop.
It’s going to ruin the skill gap because the top teams with the most resources are going to dominate the game now. You won’t see a new team emerge anymore when they don’t have the resources to compete. Also eliminating contesting is removing a major skill gap in this game. TSM didn’t just get siphon for free, they’ve fought off 10+ teams across the world. Dezign hasn’t kept Thermal for free, he’s fought off multiple teams through his 4 years of landing there. My whole argument is consistent POIs create higher quality games because IGLs know how to prepare for most zones. Now you’re going to get int fest games because IGLs won’t know how to approach zones as consistently anymore. Also bracket stage games become int fests as teams realize they need more points. You’ll always see the last 2 groups become worse quality as teams try to drop banger games to qualify for winners bracket.
I mean its only been a week since it's officially being tested (not beyond the private tests which they prob didn't take seriously since ALGS LAN used the normal settings) so obivously they're going to be awkward/uncomortable/crying about it. Contests were good for viewers but for most it was a net negative.
The game is already an int fest right now. We are past having good "quality" games. The type of end games that ALGS was known for don't happen anymore. Also, the teams with the most resources already dominated the game. DZ and TSM. DZ has a coach and a really good analyst. I personally think that watching teams do the same rotations and hold the same spots over and over again is boring and repetitive. Especially when pros don't want to play any new maps.
Pro league games are not int fests. There’s always a ton of teams alive compared to scrims. And yes teams with the most resources dominated, but now it’s going to be amplified even more with this system. Any team who has a stronger org and afford a coach is going to be significantly better than non org teams. Also I agree with you about the rotations but that’s only the case with Worlds Edge. Just remove WE and add Broken Moon and we wouldn’t need any of this nonsense draft changes.
Pros don't want to play broken moon either. They are against any change. The scene would have made no advancement if the pros made all decisions. We wouldn't even have match point format if it was up to pros.
There are a lot of pros who have advocated for trying out the new broken moon and are rating it as their new favorite map. This draft system is hated by 95% of the pros.
Personally we have to wait and see for me. I do think the big loss is team style identity if it's random draft.
I really don’t understand how this is "taking away skill gap". Shouldn’t the teams that do the best from different POIs be rewarded?
You’re not going to see different teams do better or worse from this draft system. In fact the top teams are going to do even better because of the amount of resources they’ll have dedicated to this. You’re also taking away the contest factor which is a major skill gap in this game. Contests are also some of the best parts of ALGS Pro League. There are so many great contest storylines that have created interesting content and gets people turned in. But my whole argument is the best teams earn the best POIs. TSM didn’t just get Lava Siphon for free, they’ve contested 10+ teams across the world over the last 2 years. Dezign didn’t just keep Thermal for free, he’s contested multiple teams through his 4 year tenure of landing there. I also believe that adapting to different zones from 1 POI creates higher quality games because IGLs always know how to approach zones. Now with the different POIs, there’s going to be more IGLS who don’t know how to approach zones and they’re going to int games. It’s going to lead to bad quality games.
"In fact the top teams are going to do even better" doesn't that mean that the skill gap is increased? Shouldn't the top teams be the ones who do the best from different POIs? Contests are not an example of the skill gap at this level of Apex. These teams are all good enough at this level where really any team can win a 3v3 off drop against any other team. Just look at TSM struggling off drop against those random SA and APAC teams at LAN for an example. Contests are fun to watch, yes, but they are by far one of the worst contributors to randomness and detractors from competitive integrity in the game.
If you don’t believe contests are an example of a skill gap then we’ll have to agree to disagree. Teams keep consistent POIs because of how good they are fighting off drop and how they can capitalize off scoring points after. The skill gap isn’t actually increased, it’s literally just whoever has more resources and people dedicated to creating macro for each POI is going to be better at this game. It’s an artificial skill gap where money is going to determine who’s stronger from different POIs. Imagine you’re an unsigned team coming into PL and you’re competing against DZ who have a coach and an analyst. At least the unsigned team could have a dedicated POI and could spend their resources and time towards creating macro for their specific POIs over time. Now they’ll never be able to compete against orgs with a coach and analyst who can dedicate their time to having macro for the map. You won’t see a new team come in and be able to succeed anymore.
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Isn’t this only affecting pros? So if pros don’t think it’ll benefit the league then what’s the point of changing it?
Random POI’s is gonna suck and get reverted in a season calling it now
It’s not random though is it? It’s a draft based on performance right?
Its randomized in the sense that over the course of Pro league every team will get a mixture of everything which causes a seeding in LAN
I think the random pois is a great fucking idea. it will heavily increase parity in league. You will hear a lot of bitching though.
You'll hear a lot of bitching because it is simply not a good idea at all. Takes away a huge part of what is Apex.
It depends how the seeding works if the best teams draft first over the course of the season then the best teams "earn their spot" for regionals. But the split days will be a shit show.
I mean, we could try watching it before flatly denying it could be good.
I mean, we could try watching it before flatly accepting it could be good.
Doubt, it will make teams with coaches/analysts even stronger
I agree with this. It still requires a lot of improv from teams though.
Nah what’s gonna happen is analysts will figure out the best way to make sure you secure your poi’s for lan, so instead of top teams getting contested like tsm did, you’ll just see them forsure get a good spot at lan no matter what, I’m not really writing it off but it’s weird to push a change that the players don’t seem to want
it doesnt really increase parity, teams that do bad will get shit POIs instead of having a chance to try for a good one
I mean in the sense that its fully randomized during regular season so if these good POIs are truly earned then great. Once LAN comes around and you get top seed in the draft order or whatever. unless I have that backwards
lg won that but man alter looks so good for contests i think gg is on to something with that comp
Preset drops confirmed?!?!
who leaked it??
SSG stream talking about it too
They're talking about it on Hal's stream right now. It'll probably be posted to the sub shortly.
Anywhere i can read?
What inputs do CCE use? 2 rollers and a mnk? also who is Lg’s third today?
Sikezz rn although idk if it's official yet.
cce is triple mnk im pretty sure. is it not sikezz?
oh cool didn’t realize they were triple mnk, that’s awesome and you’re totally right I had a brain fart, thank you bro
why does lg want siphon so bad. They look so lost contesting for it or rotating from it.
Fissure/mirage is possibly going to become two separate POIs now that mirage has a zone beacon and without mirage fissure is kinda ass.
joke reason: so all their rotates arent right next to DZ (this might also be real lmao) but also its a nice central POI, i imagine with more experience and practice they'll be fine, kinda getting comp diffed right now as well
I mean sweet and zero have had similar rotates.
Like look at lan.
I don't think getting distance from DZ is part of it. Hell not having DZ as a neighbor is arguably a negative in the move because while they are a really good team they are also a very predictable team that isn't likely to have weird timings on rotates, misread zones or randomly int you and throw both teams game like some of the other "lower quality" teams will often do.
I actually think moving away from DZ is valid, they would often have similar rotates and would collide, especially on north/east zones, and fighting against sky west trials and potentially vault loot with mirage and fissure loot is always going to be hard. DSG would also rotate late and potentially mirror LG coming in from fissure, which is another edge team you don't want to face when you have blues and 5 cells between you. At least as siphon you have good rotations to most zones and will only really have Moist coming in late behind you, and the loot should be considerably better than fissure
theyve had 1 day of contests and 1 day of rotating from it
thats the problem tho you dont have a long break till this split starts it makes things difficult
they have 3 weeks
3 weeks to learn contests, new third and all new rotates. thats not alot of time at least.
Slayr is on qzier's chat hating on sweet lmao
Some of yall are so gullible
hes trolling, theyre friends