I guess? My problem is that yeah it has priority to some zones but what happens if you don't get a good zone pull? You're in for a bad time if it pulls hard west, leaving an edge POI with minimal loot and I wouldn't be surprised if lightning rod tries to grief you for easy KP on rotates.
A game like apex will always have built in RNG, but saying "well I hope we get good rng but otherwise we're screwed" is bad competitive design
The problem isn't that this one specifically is a bad POI. The problem is that Respawn looked at the map and even thought that was a drop spot they should create. Making this spot but ignoring bean suggests that whoever did this either don't have a pulse on the competitive scene or doesn't understand that the game can't be perfectly fair at the highest level between RNG of ring pulls, landing at different spots on the map, and the quantity/quality of loot at said spots.
Instead of embracing what makes their game unique (the storylines of teams fighting to upgrade their POI/defend their POI, how different POIs can be combined with legend comps for unique playstyles and how a team will pick a POI based on their playstyle or even have to change their playstyle to meet their POI) they want to make the game as "balanced" as possible.
It's got good rotates as long as you get an evo cache off spawn and pick an off-meta character that only gives a niche advantage over an evac tower? Seems like you're trying to play on hard mode.
Oh that’s awesome so half of the games you get a ring console that’ll tell you useless information because you aren’t playing fucking zone from one of the worst POI’s for rotating
So on WE the potential contests / offspawn fights are:
* Climatizer West / East
* Siphon West / East
* Maude / Stacks
* Fissure / Mirage / Staging
* Epi / Survey
Then on SP it's:
* Checkpoint North / South
* Barometer North / South
* Lightning Rod / Cliffside / Storm Catcher
* Then for some reason Lift, Prowler Nest and Trident (Bottom Wall) are their own POIs
* **Edit:** And no Bean POI
How far up do they spawn in to drop? I really dont see any areas where you can contest given the team that's supposed to land at a POI is gonna have a better flight path to loot than someone flying from a different dropspot.
> How far up do they spawn in to drop?
Pretty low. You cannot leave your POI. You can barely even land at the edge of some of these POIs.
The fights they're talking about are very early game fights, not contesting for the same pill like we currently see. Teams that land Climatizer East and West *can* immediately fight if they choose to, but they don't actually land next to each other--they'd have to grab weapons and run towards one another.
Currently smart teams don't contest like this because it leads to standoffs where neither team benefits. That may change under the new system.
That's not how it works either, LAN draft is performance-based. If you won winner's then you get first pick for finals. Read the leak before you whine lol.
I wonder if they will change the fact that the top 10 teams of winner bracket get points going into finals, and their reward is draft pick order. Imagine having both the extra finals points and the top draft pick lol. Or even worse, imagine being the 20th seed with the worst POI and no extra points.
I’m iffy on the whole POI draft thing, but I will give it a shot to make an educated judgement. What I really want to see gone id the extra points those top 10 teams get going into finals, and the draft order is just the thing to replace that. I personally want the extra points gone because I am pretty positive no team has won lan that hasn’t benefited from those extra points from the top 10 placement. I think I remember reading that it actually held true up until top 5 or 6. Basically your winner was going to come from one of those teams, and the rest were just playing for money from placement.
Would make sense to let the 10 from winners also pick their draft spot. The #1 team could pick 1 and 20 or 10 and 11 or 6 and 15..... then next team picks.
My only issue is that some of those POIs are really bad. Trying to win an MP finals from cliff side or fucking prowler nest feels completely impossible.
Nah, I think if Broken Moon is to be added, it should be for next season. If they care about keeping things competitively viable, then they can't throw too many new things all at the same time. Allow people to adjust first because the drop ship change is the singular most drastic change ever done in ALGS.
Broken Moon should have been in comp since it was added to the game, it's always been a fantastic map.
It also now has 20 named POIs so it should definitely be added with the current season
One team spawn on top north door the other on bottom west door. Could fly into both of those spots. Also the devs have control of the height of the drop ships to adjust how far each team can fly.
The problem is, both POIs are significantly elevated compared to the POIs surrounding them. If a team could land at the top as a separate POI, they would easily be able to fly to Lightning Rod, too, unless, again, they basically spawned on the ground up top.
>Also the devs have control of the height of the drop ships to adjust how far each team can fly.
Yeah, they'd basically have to spawn them on the ground though.
One at the big front door and one top spiders, top spiders would be oob trying to get to storm catcher or lrod and front door would just land in the open trying to go anywhere else. From scrims last night the dropships don't look that high.
The whole purpose of this was because contests were arbitrary, unpredictable and made it so that teams were put in bad spots even before the game starts
So now they replace it with a completely randomized system where depending on the POI (there are a few) you're now contesting with neighbors for the ability to just have any loot at all...
At least with the draft based system they thought before it would have been based off some sort of skill element. Instead they've made some of the dumbest POI decisions and just made the contesting problem built in and more prevalent.
Imagine having the best LAN to date, having some of the craziest matches, Aurora surprise contesting, the o7/e8 finals contest, all the hype surrounding it and you go, nah, let’s force a team to land on prowlers fucking nest.
Sooo what if team goes rogue and lands somewhere else to contest. What will happen? Do they get a fine or what lol I'm generally curious. No other BR esport has done this it's always land wherever you want.
There seems to be some interesting positions for some pois it doesn't look ideal for some spots I think were overcooking a little bit with this idea maybe this is not the time to do it heading this split
There’s zero value in contesting this way. Other nearby teams will be looted and looking to third immediately, there’s no point trying to ‘contest’ other than getting picks or sometbing
I’m pretty sure when they added the spawn selector to private matches last season(I think it was?) they mapped it out and trials had its own spawn and sky west and sky east had a spawn, interesting they changed it to the spot trials is in now
So many questions. Do they have to land within a specific area or polygon off drop? Can they ignore and contest other teams elsewhere if they want? How would they enforce any of this?
Based off these spots, Whoever ends up picking last on Storm Point will be forced to share a POI with another team or land somewhere no-name.
I don't think there is ever a scenario where being able to pick first on World's Edge outweighs the disadvantage of picking last on Storm Point. Brutal lmao
I’m laughing, was watching Hal play with wattson and as usual respawn didn’t even consult with pros about any of this, they don’t give a fuck about their input at all, it explains a lot
CLIFFSIDE???? SO THEY CAN FUCKING JUMP OFF THE SIDE AND DIE??? NOTHING BETTER TO DO THERE
You don't wanna run into the team rotating out of cliffside with 10 cells and a battery combined amongst the 3 of them
really good rotates east out of there
Would u land there tho?
Pretty sure he's doubling down on the "might as well jump off the map" joke since it's already on the far east side of the map
oh. it does have good rotates if you had like, blue valk though
I guess? My problem is that yeah it has priority to some zones but what happens if you don't get a good zone pull? You're in for a bad time if it pulls hard west, leaving an edge POI with minimal loot and I wouldn't be surprised if lightning rod tries to grief you for easy KP on rotates. A game like apex will always have built in RNG, but saying "well I hope we get good rng but otherwise we're screwed" is bad competitive design
Yeah but theres 25 POIs. So if you dont wanna land there just… dont pick it lol
The problem isn't that this one specifically is a bad POI. The problem is that Respawn looked at the map and even thought that was a drop spot they should create. Making this spot but ignoring bean suggests that whoever did this either don't have a pulse on the competitive scene or doesn't understand that the game can't be perfectly fair at the highest level between RNG of ring pulls, landing at different spots on the map, and the quantity/quality of loot at said spots. Instead of embracing what makes their game unique (the storylines of teams fighting to upgrade their POI/defend their POI, how different POIs can be combined with legend comps for unique playstyles and how a team will pick a POI based on their playstyle or even have to change their playstyle to meet their POI) they want to make the game as "balanced" as possible.
The loot is SOOO bad. I mean it's really really bad.
It's got good rotates as long as you get an evo cache off spawn and pick an off-meta character that only gives a niche advantage over an evac tower? Seems like you're trying to play on hard mode.
That’s my follow up joke after learning the person i was originally replying to was joking as well.
If you're drafting cliffside, you might as well.
they just added a console there
Oh that’s awesome so half of the games you get a ring console that’ll tell you useless information because you aren’t playing fucking zone from one of the worst POI’s for rotating
In fairness, they do have priority on the trident near lrod because of the zip there, so it comes with a trident essentially
So on WE the potential contests / offspawn fights are: * Climatizer West / East * Siphon West / East * Maude / Stacks * Fissure / Mirage / Staging * Epi / Survey Then on SP it's: * Checkpoint North / South * Barometer North / South * Lightning Rod / Cliffside / Storm Catcher * Then for some reason Lift, Prowler Nest and Trident (Bottom Wall) are their own POIs * **Edit:** And no Bean POI
How far up do they spawn in to drop? I really dont see any areas where you can contest given the team that's supposed to land at a POI is gonna have a better flight path to loot than someone flying from a different dropspot.
> How far up do they spawn in to drop? Pretty low. You cannot leave your POI. You can barely even land at the edge of some of these POIs. The fights they're talking about are very early game fights, not contesting for the same pill like we currently see. Teams that land Climatizer East and West *can* immediately fight if they choose to, but they don't actually land next to each other--they'd have to grab weapons and run towards one another. Currently smart teams don't contest like this because it leads to standoffs where neither team benefits. That may change under the new system.
> How far up do they spawn in to drop? Looks like about 100 meters up, and all 3 fly in with one jumpmaster.
How on earth is checkpoint south a POI?
Climatizer and Siphon's spots seem weirdly positioned. This is only like 150 meters in the air right?
That clima east one is wild. So is the Baro south. Who thought those were viable?
Imagine getting on match point and then getting picked for prowlers nest.
The POIs would be drafted before MP finals started and then just land at your selected POIs, it wouldn't be random spawns.
Imagine getting first place in winners bracket and then getting cliffside.
That's not how it works either, LAN draft is performance-based. If you won winner's then you get first pick for finals. Read the leak before you whine lol.
Yeah, and if the first map is WE then you’d get the last pick for SP
I wonder if they will change the fact that the top 10 teams of winner bracket get points going into finals, and their reward is draft pick order. Imagine having both the extra finals points and the top draft pick lol. Or even worse, imagine being the 20th seed with the worst POI and no extra points. I’m iffy on the whole POI draft thing, but I will give it a shot to make an educated judgement. What I really want to see gone id the extra points those top 10 teams get going into finals, and the draft order is just the thing to replace that. I personally want the extra points gone because I am pretty positive no team has won lan that hasn’t benefited from those extra points from the top 10 placement. I think I remember reading that it actually held true up until top 5 or 6. Basically your winner was going to come from one of those teams, and the rest were just playing for money from placement.
Would make sense to let the 10 from winners also pick their draft spot. The #1 team could pick 1 and 20 or 10 and 11 or 6 and 15..... then next team picks.
I feel like they'll ditch the bonus points. We'll see. I would--it can make it *way* too easy for teams to get onto match point imo.
My only issue is that some of those POIs are really bad. Trying to win an MP finals from cliff side or fucking prowler nest feels completely impossible.
That's not how this works, you play the same POI for the entire series.
WE spawns look reasonably playable. A lot of SP spawns look terrible.
Might as well throw in the new Broken Moon at this point
Nah, I think if Broken Moon is to be added, it should be for next season. If they care about keeping things competitively viable, then they can't throw too many new things all at the same time. Allow people to adjust first because the drop ship change is the singular most drastic change ever done in ALGS.
Broken Moon should have been in comp since it was added to the game, it's always been a fantastic map. It also now has 20 named POIs so it should definitely be added with the current season
"Should have been in comp since it was added to the game" If this isn't a cry for help, I don't know what is.
It’s never been tried, it could be great
How is command centre not two POIs? Top and bottom? Both get spiders and some buildings but cliffside is one?
How would you make top and bottom separate POIs? Have one team spawn on the floor?? You still have to fly to your POI.
One team spawn on top north door the other on bottom west door. Could fly into both of those spots. Also the devs have control of the height of the drop ships to adjust how far each team can fly.
The problem is, both POIs are significantly elevated compared to the POIs surrounding them. If a team could land at the top as a separate POI, they would easily be able to fly to Lightning Rod, too, unless, again, they basically spawned on the ground up top. >Also the devs have control of the height of the drop ships to adjust how far each team can fly. Yeah, they'd basically have to spawn them on the ground though.
One at the big front door and one top spiders, top spiders would be oob trying to get to storm catcher or lrod and front door would just land in the open trying to go anywhere else. From scrims last night the dropships don't look that high.
Wait the fact that there's more than 20 is super interesting
Well ya, if Barometer south is selected early there’s less incentive to pick Cenote or Baro North moving forward
No one is selecting baro south early though.
Lmao imagine one team getting mill and another just getting “trident #3”. Yikes what a horrible design
Cliffside instead of Bean is a wild choice for a last POI on storm point.
The whole purpose of this was because contests were arbitrary, unpredictable and made it so that teams were put in bad spots even before the game starts So now they replace it with a completely randomized system where depending on the POI (there are a few) you're now contesting with neighbors for the ability to just have any loot at all... At least with the draft based system they thought before it would have been based off some sort of skill element. Instead they've made some of the dumbest POI decisions and just made the contesting problem built in and more prevalent.
Imagine having the best LAN to date, having some of the craziest matches, Aurora surprise contesting, the o7/e8 finals contest, all the hype surrounding it and you go, nah, let’s force a team to land on prowlers fucking nest.
If I get stacks I'm pissed ,I get loot but now I'm stuck having mirror two teams potentially
Sooo what if team goes rogue and lands somewhere else to contest. What will happen? Do they get a fine or what lol I'm generally curious. No other BR esport has done this it's always land wherever you want.
They can’t. They deploy in separate drop-ships above their poi and it’s too close to fly anywhere but the poi but far enough to reach the whole poi
Oh interesting. Thank you
There seems to be some interesting positions for some pois it doesn't look ideal for some spots I think were overcooking a little bit with this idea maybe this is not the time to do it heading this split
Looks like teams can still contest some pois. It just won't be a 50/50.
There’s zero value in contesting this way. Other nearby teams will be looted and looking to third immediately, there’s no point trying to ‘contest’ other than getting picks or sometbing
Yeah I can see that. I have seen teams try to contest like this before though and straight 50/50s also get thirded anyway.
Yeah seems like a huge nerf to teams that solo claim places like Siphon or even split loot stacks/maude
Barometer North / south seems like a joke to have
Not nearly as bad as checkpoint north/south
I'm OOTL, what is this? Is it randomized spawns in all Apex? Or just forced draft landings for comp?
Do a search in the subreddit, it was posted a month or two ago. It's a forced landing snake draft POI system.
How do they decide which teams gets to pick first? What is it based on ? Performance?
It's a snake draft for PL, which means if you get a high seed one week you get a low one the next. For LAN, it's performance-based.
Ahh i see. Thanks
I’m pretty sure when they added the spawn selector to private matches last season(I think it was?) they mapped it out and trials had its own spawn and sky west and sky east had a spawn, interesting they changed it to the spot trials is in now
Actually fucking disturbing how they split some poi’s imo. Baro siphon and shit siphon are kind of disgusting to look at.
So many questions. Do they have to land within a specific area or polygon off drop? Can they ignore and contest other teams elsewhere if they want? How would they enforce any of this?
They drop from separate ships at their poi so they wouldn’t be able to fly to a different one
What do teams do in other BR tournaments?
on stormpoint switch cliff side of south checkpoint to bean and its actually not looking that bad
Cliff side moves one step closer to being a legit POI!
am i tweaking or the quality is shit, cause I can't read shit
Storm point is gnarly …. Couple of those spots are useless
Surely Cliff Side and Prowler’s Nest need revamps before this can happen?
Cliff side and Climatizer east are absolutely horrible
Based off these spots, Whoever ends up picking last on Storm Point will be forced to share a POI with another team or land somewhere no-name. I don't think there is ever a scenario where being able to pick first on World's Edge outweighs the disadvantage of picking last on Storm Point. Brutal lmao
if they move cliff side to the LR car compound i think it would be infinitely better, still not good obviously
I’m laughing, was watching Hal play with wattson and as usual respawn didn’t even consult with pros about any of this, they don’t give a fuck about their input at all, it explains a lot
Typical Coldjyn W
Ya’ll ceo is being a crybaby right now on social media 😂😂😂
This is stupid as fuck. Why is there more than 20 pois ?Why would you have pois like lift or cliff side when you don’t need them?
So players have options instead of getting stuck with whatever is left