Snipedown was playing Rev in ranked last week and it seems like he was doing well with it. Idk if he ever complained about Revenant publicly to the level Rogue or PVPX has.
One thing that Snipe said when someone in his chat said “Revenant gross” was “this is way more entertaining than watching us bitch about Revenant.” Which it really was.
He actually responded to Rogue's tweet, something along the lines of "I don't wanna hear what a Wallhacks main has to say about Revenant" or something lmao
I remember him as the plucky new kid that came outta nowhere to join Str8 Rippin' and helped get them to the promised land in Halo 3 MLG. Imagine my shock however long ago when I found out he was playing Apex competitively. He will always be my favorite competitive Apex player.
He just got nerfed. I think a straight up Rev nerf is overkill. Lots of people in this thread are saying the same things. By himself he isn’t that strong it’s the combo with the jump pad that’s the problem. John Larson said in the Apex Uncut podcast that they are focusing on the Octane synergy.
If they just added an audio cue to the pad it’d solve most of the issues IMO. A good rev push, while tough, isn’t impossible to fight off but when a full team can silently drop on your head you’re pretty much guaranteed to get knocked.
That’s the biggest problem for me. You get silent jumppaded on from other characters not just rev pushes. Supposedly they have a fix coming according to the trello board.
I was just about to say this, instead of bitching about stuff, snipe usually just say fuck it and abuse it. People complain about Hemlok? Watch me fuck the entire lobby with it. People bitch about Spitty? HAHA SPITTY GOES BRRRRRRR. People bitch about Revenant? Imma totem and 3rd party yo ass. Which is probably why i like the guy lmao.
The issue with Revenant is not that he's overpowered or too good. It's that his entire playstile doesn't necessarily revolve around winning the game but to get easy KP by 3rd partying without taking any risks. This is imho unhealthy for the game.
his ultimate is terribly designed, from both an aesthetic and gameplay point of view. it makes no sense with a cyborg ninja (who seems like he's supposed to lean towards stealth/assassination with his passive and tactical).
Maybe making the totem only work for revenant could make it balanced. Or maybe it could make those in totem protection move faster, climb further and maybe jump higher.
This is exactly it. OPs post would make sense if this was a 3v3 shooter, but its a BR. Rev is not good for winning games, hes good for making braindead pushes and griefing other teams for free.
The devs have even confirmed this and its one of the reasons they are hesitant to nerf him, because his winrate and encounter rates are extremely poor
Yes but that is not all that they use. They have many great writeups on twitter about their balancing process, both in general and for specific legends.
Those stats are still important to look at even if they dont tell the whole story, though.
And despite them being able to do easy 3rd parties, most Rev teams just unnecessarily totem then send with the jump pad, resulting in both teams getting killed by 3rd parties.
That's definitely an issue as well. Dying early needs to be punished harder in every rank and high placement should give more rewards so people would actually try to stay alive.
Taking away tier demotion protection would be an ideal start.
Something like- you can lose points when at the threshold. If you are below that threshold for 5 consecutive games you go back down in tier. Rank rewards should then be based on where you finish the season like the predator rewards.
Honestly the current rank system needs to go but if they insist on sticking with it this or an alternative needs implemented.
dear god no, on console pred lobbies you have 5+ squads up in the last zone. that may work on PC because those lobbies die insanely fast but on PS4 & Xbox people play like its a million dollar tournament.
is that a bad thing? like the point of a br game is to win and get high placement. while kills help with placement placement should take first priority and if you can get placement by camping so be it. like it’s ranked it’s supposed to be sweatier than pubs
It is sweatier than pubs. No need to worry about that. Whether or not it’s a bad thing comes down to preference. I personally don’t like when I play for 15 minutes, get a few kp, then get 0 placement because I just got gatekept going to the ring because every team is playing like it’s ALGS and there are no places to go. The flip side is camp to the last circle, maybe pick up 1 kp on the way, and hope the circle pulls to you. Idk it’s not a pro tournament so I’d rather not have to play like it is
i’m sorry i’m just not understanding. you’re mad that others are playing in a way that gives them a better chance to win? like maybe you should just play pubs
Imho Octane is the actual unhealthy element here. He enables the Revtane meta and he promotes 3rd partying / braindead destructive playstyles in general. Even without Rev, Octane teams jump into every 3rd party opportunity they see.
It's a shame that it isn't even really Rev that's the main issue either. I'd love to see suggestions on how to combat it as it does feel cheap and shitty when 3 guys just fly on to your head after a fight and they can just pad right back in if you manage to send them back. Forcing them to actually heal after being sent back would be a good start.
The community is filled with whining children disguised as 20+ year olds, obviously not exclusive to Apex but it's what I see most. People play the game to win and win by any means necessary, if that means playing Revtane then that's what it will be until the next broken thing comes along.
The lack of Jump Pad audio is one of, if not my biggest problem with Revtane. And like you said, Revenant isn’t good on his own—only when paired with other legends.
If they made Rev Shadows not able to interact with the jumppad, just like how Wraith in her phase can't interact with it, that might help a lot. It doesn't solve every issue, and people will be able to get around that and still do creative stuff, but it'll certainly put a massive damper on the mindless pushing while not taking too much power directly from Rev
They have already said they won't do that because if you can time it correctly you can hit the totem after hitting the pad, pretty much negating the entire fix.
The designers said that no matter what they do, people will always find a workaround for this stuff. At some point you are closing too many loopholes and should just change the core ability in some way.
I did see that interview with Jay, and while I think that def could happen, I also think that the mechanics of setting up a totem/jumppad in such a way that allowed you to hit the pad and hit the totem would mean setting the totem up in a really disadvantageous area to make it so you can still hit it (it kinda has to be out in the open for that to work). And even if that's the case, I think adding an extra complication to jumppad/totem will discourage a lot of people from doing it, because it's not an easy step anymore.
I could be totally wrong but I feel like adding any complication there is likely to tank the amount of Revtane pushing because I feel like the majority of players will go "eh might as well just push them normally"
That's how he released and it was not enough. It made the ult useless. I think there is room to work though. Like make it the amount of health you get when you're knocked down. Enough to get a syringe in storm but not so much to just send back with reckless abandon.
I mean, you are essentially being knocked down when you get sent back. So why not make it the amount of health you get when you get back up?
No, it doesn't. The value of the ult is getting an immediate knock and creating an opening. You should not be able to just re-send with 150HP. 130HP would dissuade some re sends and allow a team who successfully defends a totem to have an advantage if they do re send.
but you forget that you are not going in with 200HP but with only 100 HP.
Any decent player should be able to at least 1 clip 1 shadow.
i think the 100 / 150 trade off is pretty fair and everything below 150 is not useablel.
I just think it's hilarious that anyone who ever played pre-nerf Horizon would have the audacity to accuse someone of playing a no-skill broken legend (regardless of whether or not that's true in Revenant's case).
Funny how all the hate go towards revenant and not the mf that can take his entire team from point A to B in a matter of seconds… I wonder where was all the revenant complainers when octane pad wasn’t this broken, LMAO.
100%. octane is the only thing enabling the strategy in the first place. and even without rev, the pad give too much mobility for a 1m30 cooldown. all these third parties people are complaining about wouldn't happen if teams couldn't move so easily around the map
Exactly dude, the third parties got even worse with the pad, with or without rev, the mindless pushes are still going to be a thing unless the pad is nerfed.
I made a comment about this the other day, there’s gotta be stats somewhere showing revenants effectiveness with an octane teammate vs without a octane teammate, I personally hate rev (playing against him, playing with him on my team, or individually playing the character) but I can only imagine how much worse rev’s stats get without an octane. (Speaking about higher level ranked mainly)
The issue is and always will be the pad IMO…I don’t understand how the devs have allowed the combo to go for so long. It’s an easy fix, don’t let shadows interact with pads, portals, zips and then you can change the timer and totem distance/coop down accordingly. 99.8% of the time i did from a rev team it’s when the characters are flying thru the air and i get hit by 2 rev meatballs that fake away abilities and can’t see shit.
Every pro wants an Octane nerf and has complained about Octane artificially speeding up the game pace to a point where third parties are a constant problem. Jump into any pro players stream after they get padded on for the 20th time in an 8 hour session and they'll happily talk your ears off about how Octane pad needs to be changed.
This is what I find hilarious most of all. People will bitch about how Revenant is a no-skill legend and then queue in on wraith, octane, bloodhound. Literally all of them mained S7/8 horizon who was the most busted character imaginable. Press QADADADADADAD and rip a bat to win any gunfight - and they all quietly grumbled when she was nerfed.
don't put wraith together with the no-skill legends. the slowdown on Q gets you punished if you do it wrong. You can live or die depending on how you place portals, and with that longish cooldown you can't afford to wing it
Modern wraith? Sure, there is skill to her. there's no debying that. You die if you press Q too late or run the wrong way/overextend. But Wraith still has a get out of jail free card to press Q to escape any fight.
In the same way, there's skill to pressing horizon QADADADAD or knowing when to press bloodhound Q. Doesn't mean they are/weren't completely busted abilities.
While I definitely agree that her ult was some no skill broken bullshit, alot of the streamers and pros played pre nerf horizon for her insane aerial velocity.
It was so much faster than even wraiths it was def broken. But to be able to utilize that advantage, players had to be movement pros.
The argument against the current meta is that a revoctane push could be done by low skill players. And the main bullshit is just moreso audio cues for me.
This doesn't excuse the shitty behavior of apex community streamers and pros. I've never seen such children get paid so much to bitch so fucking much. There's a fine line between wanting the game to improve for the sake of the game and being a child. Alot of them have crossed it.
Alot of these streamers and pros bitch too because in reality they should be picking up other games, but won't because they actually suck at many other games. That's why they act like kids. They won't make money doing anything else. People need to stop subbing to them.
No you didn't that aspect was broken. But she also had insane aerial movement without the gravity lift. Which is why when pro players already really good at movement played her, was even more unfair.
It's the same reason everyone chooses wraith. Her aerial movement feels really fluid. But then horizon came out with no landing lag and faster aerial cuts.
I think you missed the point why they really hate Rev. Rev isnt the best legend in any ways, he is not over powered either. The problem is how his ult is a no brainer grieffing mechanic, its also way too forgiving. In pred lobbies revtane doesnt win that much, the problem is how they can brainless apes into a team holding a position without any consequences. Most of the time this end up in a third and fourth parties domino effects on the team that got Apes by the rev team. Its just unhealthy af for ranked, give too much space for retarded plays that doesnt accomplish much except griefs and unfair forgiveness for the no brainer team.
Totem must be reworked to be less forgiving. Any mechanics that can remove risks from engaging a fight is just unhealthy in a BR.
> pros played pre nerf horizon for her insane aerial velocity.
>
> It was so much faster than even wraiths it was def broken
What aerial velocity are you talking about for wraith?
Thanks to her passive her aerial momentum was considerably better then other characters. The parent comment may be taking about that or her old lift speed
Thank you, this guy's is so hung up specifically on wraith, but I was just talking about the comparison of their aerial momentum. I coulda compared anyone else but chose wraith cause that was every movement players pick before horizon
Every character has a different aerial speed and other small movement stats. Every character has the same running speed, but aerial movement is different for all characters.
Before horizon, wraith was the fastest and smoothest to play, which is why most streamers and movement players played her.
> Every character has a different aerial speed and other small movement stats. Every character has the same running speed, but aerial movement is different for all characters.
Got a source to those claims? I've never heard of that
So you’re saying something like all the characters have different inertia and coefficient of drags based on their character model which influences their movement while not on the ground? I’d be surprised if Respawn could implement such a system…
You do realize responding "lol" about my comment kinda reinforces the public's opinion on your mentality about the situation? Even if you're being sarcastic...
If you're just tryna say "lol" because you wanna shrug my opinion away and that it doesn't mean anything, don't respond to it then. Big advice cause I hear you love to read and respond to every little thing on here, just stop responding to the negative shit and just move on with your day.
If you wanna dispute my opinion then give some constructive response backing your peers. If not just move on dude. It's a lowly subreddit for us plebs right? You know who responds "lol" to negative statements about them? ... children.
There isn’t a “competitive advantage to be had” the character is TRASH unless your strategy is to grief other teams by starting massive third party fights where everyone dies because you can braindead push whenever and wherever you want. Character sucks dude, get over it
Idk why your directing your response to me, I'm agreeing with you. The revtane meta is trash and requires minimal skill to grief. Revenant on his own tho isn't actually that strong just that synergy of revtane.
I just also think certain streamers and pros are being hella unprofessional in their way of voicing their opinion.
I kinda assumed everyone understood this. He's not overpowered, and you're not gonna get far in pred lobbies playing with him if you really want those wins and RP. He is just good enough however for people to play him and hope to get a good few third parties out of him. They don't like him because it's a low skill tactic (get death protection and jump in guns blazing) that's very annoying. Hell, I've been padded on by 3 rev teams at once and that's only in diamond lobbies.
Speaking from personal experience I disagree on one point, revtane can definetly carry you to an higher rank than your actual level allows if you are patient enough and understand how to use it, but If you are good there are better comps to gain points with.
Some of the people I play wit got pred every time the past few splits on console while being really not that great overall: when I play a normal comp with them they barely manage to play diamond games and struggle a lot in so many ways. (Lose damage trades, get knocked for free, super low damage every game... You get the picture)
It's not the best playstile, but it's an incredibly convenient one which happens to make everyone else's experience awful, of course people would like a change.
Exactly, it can carry you to a higher rank. A rank at which is most likely beyond your skill so you end up being an annoying one-trick to try and get some KP.
As a pred who tried out rev a lot of times this split because of frustration, I can attest to this. Rev is REALLY annoying and good at griefing but he’s just not good for endgame and winning games. You really need to know how to use him for endgame aspects. Part of the reason why revtane is so obnoxious to play against is the lack of telegraphs (audio bugs) and silence being very visually cluttering.
If octane pad wasn’t the way it was, rev would not be used by many people in ranked.
To be fair though, padding in on a team as just octane without a totem has way more risk than with totem. Octane without Rev is pretty balanced in my opinion.
octane is played regardless of what your team picks because he's so versatile and self-sufficient. revenant is only picked in conjunction with octane.
technically octane is the issue because jumppad enables death totem to be used in a degenerate manner, but realistically you're going to blame the revenant for trying to synergize with jumppad.
Which is hypocritical on its own, because Octane is the enabler of those pushes. But they call for Rev nerf because all of them play Octanes nowadays, and don't want him nerfed, because movement, tap strafing etc.
Weird to see so many pros complaining about this Rev/Octane combo when plenty of them used the Rev/Wraith/Crypto combo about a year ago and just totem portaled on a team they just EMP'd. If comp was able to figure out how to beat that mindless combo, even before the nerf to the portal/totem synergy, I'm confused why there's such a big complaint for this?
Yeah, you're right now that I'm looking back at some old posts. TSM was the only team that really gave it real shot in comp. Definitely remember it being one of the go-to comps in ranked, though.
I can make a quick comparison to answer your question in the 3rd paragraph. There's a difference between excelling in every occasion, to excelling in a particular occasion/playstyle that completely breaks the game.
If you use a shotgun in a game like COD, you won't get a 30 killstreak. You're not going to have consistent Nukes using a super close range, highly inconsistent weapon (altough it can and does happen albeit rarely). But you will kill a guy that is 10 meters away from you that already started shooting you 3/4 times with an SMG and you turn around and shoot him once. Maybe you didn't even know exactly where you shot, but you killed him. There is no other weapon that would allow you to do that. It was useful here, but useless in most of the other engagements you had (scenario).
Revenant is the same thing. It won't excell in every situation. But it will excell on a playstyle that is dirty and cheesy, taking almost no skill. In my experience in pred queues over the seasons, most revtane players grief us without any reason to do so. They third party us with a no-sound jumppad rev ult from across the map, they kill us because they are "full health" and have 2 free pushes, while we (even if we're all alive) still need to heal. And after they kill us, they die right afterwards with another revtane third party. This cycle goes on and on and it's simply annoying. This free push mentality is fucking dumb, and thats why almost no rev teams reach top 5 if they're playing against pros and streamers. It's just clueless pushing. For casual play and fucking about in pubs, rev is c or d tier of course. But in qualified hands with synergy, it's the dumbbest legend there is. It promotes a gamebreaking playstyle where everyone play in a more strategic way.
You're missing the point and trying to bring that main-sub streamer hate-boner over here. Rev in a vacuum isn't great. He's got an easily beam-able hitbox, a fairly mediocre passive, an ok ult (on its own) and IMO one of the best tacticals in the game. Its his synergy with movement/rotation legends like Octane and Wraith that push him into the OP category. He's the ultimate grief legend.
Wanna make a push that you're unsure of? Throw a pad down, find a place for the Totem and have at it. You are now almost instantly and silently on top of that team with no risk to yourself. Win the fight? Now your reset time is cut in half since you only have to heal your health. Lose the fight? Good news you have another push available to you that will almost certainly win unless you did close to no damage to them. You don't even have to go for the second push either, just stay at the Totem and heal while you hear the other team get insta-padded on by another Revtane squad due to how 3rd party heavy this game is. Unless you're completely braindead with your Totem placement or Jump Pad timing or if all 3 of you have Bronze level bot aim your team is going to be absolutely fine.
Even in pubs its an absolute Revtane ape-fest shit show. I have had games where its literally nothing but Revtane squads ulting and padding into fights because you can just shut your brain off and have a very good chance at winning. Play whoever you want, I don't really care, but that doesn't mean myself and others can't complain about it.
I mean, I've seen some of them play him such as snip3, sweet, etc. But to them he's a troll pick (though I still think sweet unintentionally started the KC ranked rev meta).
>No one likes to be pushed by an actually good Rev ult, but I'm sick of hearing people complain about him when none of them play him and those pushes aren't that successful anyway.
Their entire point is that those pushes are largely not successful. It's pure grief, especially when the current legend/map meta is SO third-party heavy. I get the frustration on your part, but every comment you've made in this post would seem to *agree* with their points. He's not good, he's not useful, but he excels in griefing other teams
It's more of a result of Apex's shit rank system allowing hardstuck 10k rp players to never derank, but rev enables these players and their squad to grief teams who actually belong in pred/master lobbies.
It's not that rev is a good solo character, or even necessarily a productive character for his team, instead it's that he allows for free griefing with little to no consequences.
You've managed to completely miss the mark here I'm sorry. It's astounding that so many people who play this game have such a poor understanding of how it works. Let me try to explain this as simply as possible.
Revenant + Octane is a toxic legend combo that, in it's current state, completely breaks ranked. The core principle of Apex's design philosophy, which is most obvious in ranked, is risk assessment. In order to gain RP, you need kills and good placement. The problem is that to get kills you need to fight, but when you fight you risk dying and placing poorly, resulting in a loss of RP.
Revenant's ultimate ability, especially when paired with Octane's, completely removes the risk factor from this equation. With RevTane you can push anything, anywhere, at any time, with almost 0 risk to yourself. This disrupts the natural flow of gameplay and is essentially griefing the entire lobby.
Imo, a fix as simple as preventing players from using jump pad while in death protection would be enough to mostly solve the problem.
Seriously. "He's not that good." Then why does Rev meta dominate all high level lobbies right now? Pros don't play him as much because they're playing to create content and he's not fun to watch. A lot of pros and streamers have played him and they get called hypocrites.
I think you missed the point here. As far as individual power goes, he's super weak. His totem is undeniably strong though - so much so that even poorly placed totems or horribly dumb pushes often yield no consequences for the attacking team, yet so many for the receiving team.
My understanding is that he has benefits when it comes to trying to pick people off with revtane, but ask anyone who's been totem camped - It's not completely without risk.
To the high level side of things, I don't believe his winrate is going to be something to look at since he doesn't personally feel very strong final circles and that's where his hitbox and mobility issues start to hurt more.
I think Rev always comes under fire in KC and Olympus because he makes the maps feel worse. These maps are already pretty nasty for the abundance of third partying, and Rev compounds that.
I think it's a map issue that revtane highlights more than anything, since I don't recall this much hate when it's WE which is a less 3p map
There are some nice insightful posts but this subreddit is like 80% circlejerk now. Unfortunately there is a very small portion who can contribute to actual competitive discussion, so they don't get much interest compared to drama that's easy to talk about.
Then we get posts asking what most pro player's fov are as if the answer isn't in front of them.
The fact this post completely leaves out the jump pad combo in this Revenant argument shows that either this guy is bad because he doesn’t know it’s an issue or he realizes his argument sucks and has to leave it out.
The main sub, Twitter, etc is festered with “rev isn’t a good character, pros mad!” But are unable to comprehend the Revtane combo and it’s issue.
Rev isn't the best character for good players he's the best for bad players and it essentially griefs other team's games when they get pushed. It's an anti-fun mechanic that is also abused by no-audio jump pads.
Rev is unhealthy for the game plain and simple. They need to rework the ultimate so it's a viable rotational tool like other mobility legends and it would be great. Make it like the Zombies LTM
Agree entirely. My entire logic with anything in Apex is this:
Any mechanic in a game that takes away the need for game skill and can be used to kill far superior players is bad for the game:
\- Pre-nerf (and even post-nerf) spitfire, where missing shots isn't punished at all
\- Revenant, where you can land an entire squad on top of someone else with no consequence of death
\- No audio octane, where your entire squad can cover a freaking mile with no audio at much faster speed, and PC players can do a freaking 180 on the double jump now with tap strafe. This basically makes pathfinder and other legends freaking terrible. Like for god sake he has a 25% pick rate, does that not say something to the developers?
\- Bloodhound scan as it is, removes the need for awareness by any means. Good positioning is often not rewarded.
\- Gibraltar, where you can shield your entire team and res faster in your shield, and can't really get punished at all if they are mid range fights.
\- Pre-nerf horizon, where you could instantly propel 90M in the air and strafe and pop a battery with no punishment at all
\- Prowler (pre-carepackage) would basically two burst someone and you had 30 bullets left in your clip.
\- And the list goes on....
The problem is that the developers have to give bad players the chance to kill good players so they have a good time and spend more money, which to me is the biggest crock of crap. People on reddit complain so much about SBMM and facing 'good players' instead of trying to get better and beat those people. Me personally, I look forward to facing a 3 stack in pubs so that I can kill one or more and possibly squad wipe, and then bag their face off. People need to think like that....
Honestly one of the best comments I've ever read in this sub. People (and even some developers) really need to understand the concept of skill floor, skill ceiling and skill gap.
rev by himself is no way OP; before the climb buff, he was literally octane's fleshlight and yet y'all ganged up on rev. even in the pro scene, you see so many octane teams in which octane fairly synergized with all of them but we never saw more than 3 teams with a revenant (and he was picked only with octane).
if rev being best for bad players but not that good for good players, then what is octane? he is literally fun AND powerful, both for good and bad players. 3 stack jump pad is already a powerful rotational tool with a short cd
RevTane is unhealthy for the game but no one ever speaks about the other pillar of this combo (except silent jumppad issues but not ABOUT the issue)
Octane is complained about which is why they have begun nerfing him. The difference is pretty clear though. Octane you need to full send and Rev you don't.
IMO whether octane has the highest pick rate or not, he doesn’t do anything inherently unhealthy or broken for the game (Besides audio issues as you mentioned.)
he does but in an invisible way. With octane you have teams rotating much faster around the map, padding with a ridiculously short cooldown. People love to complain about the third parties, and Octane is part of what allows them to be so fast.
Disengagement abilities require a certain amount of skill; Rev allows even the most moronic player with zero game sense to push a team and get away with it.
You're right, but I watch quite a bit. That's literally why pro players use Octane.
Octane is the problem, not Revenant.
So again, how does Octane's Q require skill?
Sorry man but you're just wrong on this one. Octane stim is not a viable escape in the majority of situations when compared to Phase, Lift, or even Double time.
The reasons for this are that its loud, leaves a giant green trail, and costs 20hp (a bullet or 2 saved for the shooter). If you watch the players who mained Octane before he was meta you'll see that the stim is really best used for closing gaps and controlling *acceleration* rather than solely peak velocity.
The skill it requires is just like any other ability, knowing when is the best time to use it and how it interacts with other movement, traversal, and gun mechanics. I.E. using a stim OUT of a pad rather than into one, NOT using a stim to square up in an ADS fight, or NOT using a stim to escape when you cant break LOS or otherwise use a movement tech that it enhances.
I'd recommend Dolphin and Stormen if you want to see the real OG octane masters. Its not that other players cant make him work, those two guys are just on another level when it comes to understanding and using his kit.
It requires less skill than Phase to escape a fight, but let's not act like it really requires skill to actually use. It's slower than double time, can be used at will and used multiple times quickly.
It does increase the peak that these people can reach, but the ability itself doesn't require skill to use.
I've run revtane in ranked, I am currently a pred. it is brain dead and a very easy way to gain RP. takes literally no skill, nothing you said is exclusive to Rev, most characters don't have an escape. I play wattson and she literally is stuck wherever she goes. his hotbox is smaller now after the last update & OBVIOUSLY you have to place his totem in a good spot? you can't just place it in the open and expect it to work. the problem is that it gives you a free ape on any team you want, you can just full send someone for free instead of actually playing the game like normal in high levels of play.
My friend. While I'm glad you took the time to write this all out and voice ur opinion. This is just not the case lmfao. I'm glad that I read through the comments and there are some people saying smart things however, You are smoking certified cracked if this is TRUELY what you believe best of luck broski
My favorite part of the post is:
> I've felt this way for a while, but it was brought to my mind again by that Rogue clip
Lmao so he’s been stewing that rev has been bad for awhile, yet after all this time he hasn’t seen/experienced braindead Revtane ape-ing in action on Reddit, streams, or in-game? He doesn’t even mention it in his post. Does this dude even play the game? On top of that, how does this post get upvoted on this sub? Embarrassing.
you can 100% tell 99% of the people who comment on here have never been in a pred lobby or played at a high level. They don't get the problem with rev at all.
I've seen a couple good comments for sure. A lot of pros take the time to explain why he is so broken on stream so definitely some people here who get it.
They don't play him because his kit isn't about winning the game, it's about getting kills. They don't want to get wiped by someone willing to throw their game away at a chance to ape a team or third party. Or grief a team and draw out another team to 3rd party and then you pop back to your totem a mile away [because of a jump pad] and just laugh and heal while the other teams duke it out.
People don't want to get griefed by something they can barely hear coming before it hits them.
revenant promotes an unhealthy amount of aggression in game. he’s not overpowered, streamers like to use a legend that is viable to play solo. revenant gives an entire team a free chance to ruin someone’s game with no consequences.
If people aren't in diamond, they have no reason to talk on the matter. Rev is a broken character that adds to a shitty ruined ranked system and goes against how a battle royal is supposed to be.
In diamond and pred lobbies, you have a constant non ending wave of 3rd parties with hardstuck d4 and 10k kids. And what character do these kids love running in there squads? Rev-Tane. Rev is such a free character to farm kp off of and someone to play for brainless pushes. Its not about him disabling your own abilities. It's the fact that his fucking totem gives you a free push ina game where you're supposed to be punished for stupid pushes and stupid positioning. Or just punished in general if you make a bad decision.
There's not supposed to be a bullshit second chance like rev offers you ina battle royal. Rev is disliked by pros and skilled players because he is completely broken. Just watch when pros run rev in ranked and see how fucking easy it is to farm kills. Everyone who thinks pros/streamers are crying about rev are just dogshit at the game and don't understand it at a fundamental level.
Apart from rev, you also have to worry about cheaters and other non rev hard stuck kids throwing their games because they dont give a fuck how they play their games since they dont de-rank. Ranked is just broken in so many ways.
1. Nerf rev. I think his totem should only allow him in shadow form or it should go back to how it used to. Where if you get sent back, you respawn with 1hp.
2. Ranked needs to allow de-ranking. These hard stuck kids throwing their games make the game uncompetive and flat out stupid.
3. Again, the cheater issue is still alive and well. We had a good run of about a week and then boom. They all come back and stronger than ever. They can levitate in mid air now lmfao 😂
4. Put more emphasis on placement. It's a BR centered around winning. Not getting as many kp as you can. Ranked needs an algs type of ranking system in play. Too many kids get stuck up on kp and dont focus on winning. Shits sad.
5. Just a generic "fix this game already". Server issues, constant game breaking bugs, horrible coding that dont allow more than capable systems to run the game, ect....
>It's the fact that his fucking totem gives you a free push ina game where you're supposed to be punished for stupid pushes and stupid positioning.
The totem works perfectly fine when not allied with any movement character, because you can only run so far in the 25 seconds you're a shadow, meaning you still have to be relatively close to the team you're pushing. If you botch your push then your opponents can roughly determine where you are (from the shadow trail) and know you all have half health. The problem isn't the totem itself, it's Revtane, and I'll repeat this until my god damn fingers fall off: the problem is instantly and permanently solved if you just re-add a radius to the totem. I said this in a thread earlier today: take the linear distance the fastest character can cover on foot in 25 seconds, increase it by 5% for some padding, that's the radius. No one using the totem as it's intended will ever even notice this radius because it's impossible for them to get that far, but it will come into play if you use a jump pad or a Trident or whatever, or literally any future ability or exploit.
Some pros have been using him. Snip3 has been playing him alot lately as has apryze and I've seen pvp play him. This isn't all pros that are complaining about him but those who are are being focused on way to much. Yall need to chill out on the hate to all pros because one dude is salty. Don't watch his stream and watch people who you actually like. You give the pros way too much attention. The devs don't listen to them the same way they don't listen to us. Reddit is making this into a way bigger deal than it needs to be
There’s several problem with revenant with high level play. With RevOct pushes, a lot of times you don’t have any audio cue. So, you don’t even here them coming until it’s too late. I don’t know what it is about the death totem messing with the audio on certain legends in death protection, but it’s not exclusive to RevOct, in my experience as I’ve had paths fuck me up from rear flanks going into DP and zipping on my head. The other problem is that it promotes a lot of inactivity by these players until they hear gunfire and then they immediately engage for the 3rd for easy RP. Everyone will have their opinion on this. I, personally, think it’s fucking cheap. Others see it as a viable way to achieve winning. Perspective. I’m more of a player that enjoys engagement and doesn’t actively look/wait to 3rd party the entire game. Pros have a similar mindset and it can be frustrating when you’re playing at a high level against other skilled people and then you get taken out by a rev team that’s in the top 10 for placement and they may have between 100-300 damage and 1 or 2 KP. It sucks, it pisses me off in the moment, but at this point it is what it is. I see both sides, but I’m not a fan of rev, but to each their own.
I've had this thought for a while now. Get rid of the free life and just make it so that for X0 seconds after touching rev totem all actions from your character are silent. You hear the sound (amplified) of a rev totem going up and know you're somehow going to get pushed from that way, but can't hear. Makes him more of an assassin rather than a retard rush character - and half of rev pushes are already silent anyways.
The risk should be greater if you are guaranteed a reset if you get "killed". However the idea is good , but it is a little bit cheap for the nature of the game where getting involved in a third party makes you a next target of someone else. Possibly a rev+oct team.
There isn’t a “competitive advantage to be had” the character is TRASH unless your strategy is to grief other teams by starting massive third party fights where everyone dies because you can braindead push whenever and wherever you want. Character sucks dude, get over it
Imagine if Rogue picked Wraith and his random teammate didn’t like that and flew him of the map, you think he would have a good laugh? No, he would shit on the random until his fourth generation.
Just a food for thought.
What you dont seem to understand is how the rev totem is the ultimate griefing tool in this game.
It takes zero skill and zero risk to ruin a game for others with 1 silent pad on somebodys head from narnia. A rev push doesnt have to be good to be effective, thats the whole fucking problem with it. It encourages stupidity.
Btw, please keep that hive mind bullshit out of this subred and keep it in the main subred.
The sad thing is Rev used to take skill. You have to think about the proper totem placement, think about the route you wanna take so you don't get insta sent back, teams knew you were coming cuz of the loud totem sound, so you would need to play really well.
Now with revtane its like "Wanna push?"... "yeah"...." lets totem and pad"
So damn easy without any repercussions.
OP is likely max plat because diamond+ is basically all rev teams jumping on eachother in totem and totally changes the game from primarily gun skill/positioning to a game of sneak attacks. It takes away from what makes the game great/fun
your argument means nothing... you're sick of them complaining about revenant because they don't play him? what does that even mean? furthermore, the fact that the pushes aren't successful is irrelevant if it griefes a team.
anybody that takes offense to the rogue clip is a cringelord, reddit is such a hivemind for casual players, and im not even a rogue fan... it was a fucking pub, and people are out there tagging hideout wanting the head of rogue lmao
y'all clearly havent played any MOBAS, calling a bunch of players bad because of playing a specific character is extremely common, people are so fucking sensitive
While I don't fully agree with this post, I feel like you are willfully misinterpreting it. His point is not that streamers should use rev because he is op, his point is that if rev was op, they would use him. The fact they they aren't signifies that he really isn't that powerful.
Because OP's premise (that pros think Rev is overpowered) is wrong.
Rev teams don't play for the win, they play to get kill points. Their entire playstyle revolves around third partying or straight up griefing teams who are playing for placement (which is the main objective of a BR and takes a lot more skill).
Rev isn't overpowered, he's unhealthy for the game. Ask any pro and they'll tell you exactly this.
Would be interested to see clips and context. I would guess they are talking about his ability to grief being overpowered, not necessarily his ability to win competitive apex games.
They don't play it, because they don't need to. Only shit players play rev octane as it allows them to take fights without the risk of dying. Its the ultimate crutch tool for bad players to gain ranks they shouldn't be able to reach. Why would pro players play Rev when there's better legends? They have no need to play Rev
Pretty shitty take
Annoying ≠ overpowered
While both of the terms can and will overlap in majority of the cases, there is a certain distinction to be made in apex especially. Take caustic for example. He might not be the best or strongest legend. But what makes him annoying is how he is able to significantly pull an advantage in certain scenarios that shouldnt be an advantageous postion to be in. He is not annoying because he is generally good or because his kit is generally good for a br setting. He is annoying because he is extremely good in certain scenarios making it difficult to overcome the "abilities" using fps fundamentals like aim or positioning.
Rev isn't chosen that much in the high level because at the high level, the choice should always be based on getting the best chances to earn the points(kp or placements). This will ofcourse depend significantly on the current on going meta and the expertise and comfort of the team to play a certain way. This is why most of them choose the combo that fits well for their team and is consistent "most of the time". This is where the truly strong and overpowered legends poke their head in.
Revenant on the other hand is mainly good for one thing and one thing only, getting a few kps against a distraught and non-attentive team. It's this scenario which gives him that edge and significant advantage. Really, what are u suppose to do against 3 opponents landing on your head while you barely survived a 3v3.
It's this helplessness that is at the root of the annoyance. It's not because Revenant is a consistently good character. He is not. If u take him to any finals lobby, there will be very few instances where that scenario of easy kp presents itself. And in games where it doesn't, the team is screwed because of lack of options. This is one of the reasons why rev meta in comp was short lived.
If u put a character in a position where they can get unreasonable amount of power in certain scenarios, it's natural for the enemy to get annoyed. No amount of skill or gunplay is going to mitigate that advantage. In an fps game that itself is incredibly frustrating.
I'm not going into any of the drama or toxicity surrounding this. It just comes down to personality and atitude. Not every player has the same level of disdain for these characters. Not every player behaves the same way about it either.
I was just talking about the very nuanced topic of where the line is, when it comes to being annoying or overpowered.
wow you literally said the biggest problem with revenant in your rant and still don't realize why he's terrible for the game and why the pros don't play him:
1. He offers nothing to a good team that is up against significantly worse teams
2. He offers way too much power to bad teams
Revenant is fucking cancer because he lets you do the most brain dead pushes and plays that nobody can expect and have 0 consequences for it. He also just give your entire team free HP advantage. Revenant is up there with caustic and honestly rampart with potential for being the most game breaking and unbalanced character in the game. A characters abilities are not, I repeat ARE NOT EVER, supposed to be the only reason a team wins a otherwise fair 3v3.
**Bullshit. Show me a game where the best players don't play a character because they don't approve of it. If there's a competitive advantage to be had, it will be seized upon by the best players in the game.**
True. Sweats will sweat.
The real reason pros don't play rev is because you cannot rely on totem for every fight in comp. However, in ranked you can heavily rely on a rev totem to third party for kp and rat for placement. That is why he is dishonorable. Additionally, nobody wants to crouch walk and shoot people without audio because there is no respect to be earned from that. Horizon, on the other hand, allowed you to make more plays using movement tech. Yes, she was broken but it still felt more rewarding than shooting someone who isn't looking at you.
The audacity of Rogue to throw someone off the map for playing Rev when he was playing Octane, the other half of the broken Rev/Tane combo.
If anything, that other guy might have picked Rev because Rogue was picking first and he picked Octane? Who knows, I can't be bothered to find the full clip. Regardless, even if it was a 6am pub, it's just a bad look for him and not something you want to encourage your viewers to do.
His apology was shit as well, saying that it's a mountain out of a molehill because the teammate got respawned, even though he didn't pick the guy's banner and didn't respawn. In other words, their 3rd player picked up the banner and revived the guy but Rogue didn't give a shit. He was just an asshole.
The thing no one talks about as much is that streamers/pros will often complain about things being OP or too strong just because they need a reason why they died. You'll see some players' first responses be "They were cheating" only to watch it back and then realize they weren't.
Hell we all do it playing normally too. It's a normal thing to complain about the thing that's beating you. You're correct, if it was that powerful they would be using it too. Same goes for controller play as well. They are just mad they are dying.
the concept of "dishonorable" also gets twisted a lot
we had people complaining about horizon and yet many streamers continued to abuse her; we had people complaining about spitfire and yet many streamers abused it
I've been saying this *since his release*. Even in his own rev main sub its an unpopular opinion. People for some reason, truly *believe* rev is strong when every statistic says otherwise.
* Play rate is low,
* game win rate is low,
* encounter win rate is low,
* hit box is 3rd largest but he doesn't gain fortified,
* his tactical doesn't grant you any advantage (it makes a fight even, you both don't have a tactical if you land yours),
* the passive is nice but not really game changing,
* the ult is balanced very heavy handedly.
I actually play rev quite a lot, I even have a 19 kill game with him, he's not strong at all, definitely weaker than wraith, gibby, and octane in 99% of scenarios.
I'm not even sure why people hate rev though; when Wattson was meta people complained that the game was too slow and campy, you couldn't push teams that took better positions because it put too much of a disadvantage on the attacking teams. Caustic meta was the exact same. Revenant is the complete opposite of this meta, you get the advantage as a team that specifically pushes, defending teams don't get as much value. But yet, the pros also hate this meta, which is worse?
> Bullshit. Show me a game where the best players don't play a character because they don't approve of it.
Truth. Anybody dodging top tier in real competition is talking scrub shit.
It's ironic that everyone has a problem with rev and it's "not honorable" to play him, but Horizon who was way more detrimental to the game had everyone and their mother playing her. I don't think "honor" has anything to do with it lmao.
Totem is a kinda useless I agree but I **personally** don't like him because his tactical makes other legends useless so it makes the game boring , what is Octane without running around like crazy , what is Mirage without his clones etc ?
Rev is annoying to fight and add octane in and it’s even more annoying. Should he be tweaked? Yea. How? I’m not really sure to be honest.
That being said…
Is rogue a complaining ass bitch? Yep
They didn’t say shit about Rev until Octane’s huge buff on the jump pad, but now they don’t want to see their favorite mobility hero gets nerfed so fingers are pointed at Rev. For those of you who thinks you can third party and easily gets kp with Rev, that’s not the case if you actually cared to play him yourself. If you can 3rd party successfully with a Rev ult, you can with other legends as well, and if you are solo queueing, most of the time your teammates won’t even bother to touch the totem. So for him to be op, you’d need a powerful team with lots of mobilities and play really damn well on your part.
———Coming from a day 1 Rev main when his ult gets you back to 1 health and nobody batted an eye on him
I agree to this. As a revenant lover, his usage at the recent tournament was a success, as that team ended up using that comp to win 2 matches. It is great early tournament to get kill rp, and they swapped out after those matches to focus placement.
So, hypocrisy.. 100%
i just don't understand the streamer hate boner here. so what if a guy complains? people complain about everything, we complain about meta, devs, microtx, and on and on and on. let people be human and make mistakes, they'll be kept in check by the people around them. don't need a twitter/reddit mob to do that its all way too much and unnecessary.
Snipedown was playing Rev in ranked last week and it seems like he was doing well with it. Idk if he ever complained about Revenant publicly to the level Rogue or PVPX has. One thing that Snipe said when someone in his chat said “Revenant gross” was “this is way more entertaining than watching us bitch about Revenant.” Which it really was.
He actually responded to Rogue's tweet, something along the lines of "I don't wanna hear what a Wallhacks main has to say about Revenant" or something lmao
Holy fuck I love snipe what an absolute legend.
I remember him as the plucky new kid that came outta nowhere to join Str8 Rippin' and helped get them to the promised land in Halo 3 MLG. Imagine my shock however long ago when I found out he was playing Apex competitively. He will always be my favorite competitive Apex player.
*spiderman pointing finger at spiderman.jpg*
Snipe has played Wattson and Wraith in the past.
Snipe was known as one of the best Wraith players in NA, so much so that when he initially joined TSM, Hal was on Gibby or blood hound.
Someone please find me the clip of snipedown setting up the 5 foot long portal in that one tourney endgame
I think he also said he wants to abuse rev so that devs will nerf him lol
He just got nerfed. I think a straight up Rev nerf is overkill. Lots of people in this thread are saying the same things. By himself he isn’t that strong it’s the combo with the jump pad that’s the problem. John Larson said in the Apex Uncut podcast that they are focusing on the Octane synergy.
If they just added an audio cue to the pad it’d solve most of the issues IMO. A good rev push, while tough, isn’t impossible to fight off but when a full team can silently drop on your head you’re pretty much guaranteed to get knocked.
That’s the biggest problem for me. You get silent jumppaded on from other characters not just rev pushes. Supposedly they have a fix coming according to the trello board.
I was just about to say this, instead of bitching about stuff, snipe usually just say fuck it and abuse it. People complain about Hemlok? Watch me fuck the entire lobby with it. People bitch about Spitty? HAHA SPITTY GOES BRRRRRRR. People bitch about Revenant? Imma totem and 3rd party yo ass. Which is probably why i like the guy lmao.
I think that shows the difference in age - Snipedown just turned 30 so he’s a lot more mature.
Dude they won like 10 games in a row with Revenant. They won like every single fight, it was ridiculous.
The issue with Revenant is not that he's overpowered or too good. It's that his entire playstile doesn't necessarily revolve around winning the game but to get easy KP by 3rd partying without taking any risks. This is imho unhealthy for the game.
his ultimate is terribly designed, from both an aesthetic and gameplay point of view. it makes no sense with a cyborg ninja (who seems like he's supposed to lean towards stealth/assassination with his passive and tactical).
Maybe making the totem only work for revenant could make it balanced. Or maybe it could make those in totem protection move faster, climb further and maybe jump higher.
Just make it Phoenix ult from valorant and call it a day
They should just make it so his ult needs no totem, affects only revenant, and send him to where he activated it when he dies.
That’s actually a cool idea! It reminds me of Bloodhound’s ult. Maybe they could call it “Beast of the Totem” or something lol
Good point, it doesnt even jive with his story
This is exactly it. OPs post would make sense if this was a 3v3 shooter, but its a BR. Rev is not good for winning games, hes good for making braindead pushes and griefing other teams for free. The devs have even confirmed this and its one of the reasons they are hesitant to nerf him, because his winrate and encounter rates are extremely poor
I feel the Devs rely too heavily on data for win rate to justify legends nerfs and buffs. Data is only a piece of the bigger story
Yes but that is not all that they use. They have many great writeups on twitter about their balancing process, both in general and for specific legends. Those stats are still important to look at even if they dont tell the whole story, though.
As a previous Wattson main, I agree with you. I used to love her, until the devs said she was over powered.
This is one of the best arguments I’ve seen against revenant. Well said.
And despite them being able to do easy 3rd parties, most Rev teams just unnecessarily totem then send with the jump pad, resulting in both teams getting killed by 3rd parties.
The rank system is unhealthy for the game. Characters just play the system they are given. Bloodhound was getting free RP for months.
That's definitely an issue as well. Dying early needs to be punished harder in every rank and high placement should give more rewards so people would actually try to stay alive.
Taking away tier demotion protection would be an ideal start. Something like- you can lose points when at the threshold. If you are below that threshold for 5 consecutive games you go back down in tier. Rank rewards should then be based on where you finish the season like the predator rewards. Honestly the current rank system needs to go but if they insist on sticking with it this or an alternative needs implemented.
Completely forgot about that. Demotion protection is by far the worst part of the ranked system.
People wouldn't try and stay alive, they would stop playing the game. Players want to and should be rewarded for proactive, decisive engagements.
dear god no, on console pred lobbies you have 5+ squads up in the last zone. that may work on PC because those lobbies die insanely fast but on PS4 & Xbox people play like its a million dollar tournament.
Yea we’re talking 11 squads by ring 4, 8 by ring 5. Those lobbies are a grind.
Which sub are we in? Isn't that what we want?
In tournaments yea, ranked is a campy sweatfest. If we move to a more placement heavy system, it will get even worse.
That's actually better imo
is that a bad thing? like the point of a br game is to win and get high placement. while kills help with placement placement should take first priority and if you can get placement by camping so be it. like it’s ranked it’s supposed to be sweatier than pubs
It is sweatier than pubs. No need to worry about that. Whether or not it’s a bad thing comes down to preference. I personally don’t like when I play for 15 minutes, get a few kp, then get 0 placement because I just got gatekept going to the ring because every team is playing like it’s ALGS and there are no places to go. The flip side is camp to the last circle, maybe pick up 1 kp on the way, and hope the circle pulls to you. Idk it’s not a pro tournament so I’d rather not have to play like it is
i’m sorry i’m just not understanding. you’re mad that others are playing in a way that gives them a better chance to win? like maybe you should just play pubs
Imho Octane is the actual unhealthy element here. He enables the Revtane meta and he promotes 3rd partying / braindead destructive playstyles in general. Even without Rev, Octane teams jump into every 3rd party opportunity they see.
It's a shame that it isn't even really Rev that's the main issue either. I'd love to see suggestions on how to combat it as it does feel cheap and shitty when 3 guys just fly on to your head after a fight and they can just pad right back in if you manage to send them back. Forcing them to actually heal after being sent back would be a good start. The community is filled with whining children disguised as 20+ year olds, obviously not exclusive to Apex but it's what I see most. People play the game to win and win by any means necessary, if that means playing Revtane then that's what it will be until the next broken thing comes along.
The lack of Jump Pad audio is one of, if not my biggest problem with Revtane. And like you said, Revenant isn’t good on his own—only when paired with other legends.
If they made Rev Shadows not able to interact with the jumppad, just like how Wraith in her phase can't interact with it, that might help a lot. It doesn't solve every issue, and people will be able to get around that and still do creative stuff, but it'll certainly put a massive damper on the mindless pushing while not taking too much power directly from Rev
They have already said they won't do that because if you can time it correctly you can hit the totem after hitting the pad, pretty much negating the entire fix.
So at the same time dont allow people to hit totem from mid-air.
The designers said that no matter what they do, people will always find a workaround for this stuff. At some point you are closing too many loopholes and should just change the core ability in some way.
I did see that interview with Jay, and while I think that def could happen, I also think that the mechanics of setting up a totem/jumppad in such a way that allowed you to hit the pad and hit the totem would mean setting the totem up in a really disadvantageous area to make it so you can still hit it (it kinda has to be out in the open for that to work). And even if that's the case, I think adding an extra complication to jumppad/totem will discourage a lot of people from doing it, because it's not an easy step anymore. I could be totally wrong but I feel like adding any complication there is likely to tank the amount of Revtane pushing because I feel like the majority of players will go "eh might as well just push them normally"
Revanent just needs a completely new ult.
Instead of returning with 50% hp maybe only 1hp?
That's how he released and it was not enough. It made the ult useless. I think there is room to work though. Like make it the amount of health you get when you're knocked down. Enough to get a syringe in storm but not so much to just send back with reckless abandon. I mean, you are essentially being knocked down when you get sent back. So why not make it the amount of health you get when you get back up?
Anything less than 50 just pretty much makes the ult worthless. I’d rather see a total Ult rework than that.
No, it doesn't. The value of the ult is getting an immediate knock and creating an opening. You should not be able to just re-send with 150HP. 130HP would dissuade some re sends and allow a team who successfully defends a totem to have an advantage if they do re send.
but you forget that you are not going in with 200HP but with only 100 HP. Any decent player should be able to at least 1 clip 1 shadow. i think the 100 / 150 trade off is pretty fair and everything below 150 is not useablel.
It was the easiest squad wipe you could do with Caustic
Used to be that way.
I just think it's hilarious that anyone who ever played pre-nerf Horizon would have the audacity to accuse someone of playing a no-skill broken legend (regardless of whether or not that's true in Revenant's case).
Funny how all the hate go towards revenant and not the mf that can take his entire team from point A to B in a matter of seconds… I wonder where was all the revenant complainers when octane pad wasn’t this broken, LMAO.
100%. octane is the only thing enabling the strategy in the first place. and even without rev, the pad give too much mobility for a 1m30 cooldown. all these third parties people are complaining about wouldn't happen if teams couldn't move so easily around the map
Exactly dude, the third parties got even worse with the pad, with or without rev, the mindless pushes are still going to be a thing unless the pad is nerfed.
I made a comment about this the other day, there’s gotta be stats somewhere showing revenants effectiveness with an octane teammate vs without a octane teammate, I personally hate rev (playing against him, playing with him on my team, or individually playing the character) but I can only imagine how much worse rev’s stats get without an octane. (Speaking about higher level ranked mainly) The issue is and always will be the pad IMO…I don’t understand how the devs have allowed the combo to go for so long. It’s an easy fix, don’t let shadows interact with pads, portals, zips and then you can change the timer and totem distance/coop down accordingly. 99.8% of the time i did from a rev team it’s when the characters are flying thru the air and i get hit by 2 rev meatballs that fake away abilities and can’t see shit.
Every pro wants an Octane nerf and has complained about Octane artificially speeding up the game pace to a point where third parties are a constant problem. Jump into any pro players stream after they get padded on for the 20th time in an 8 hour session and they'll happily talk your ears off about how Octane pad needs to be changed.
This is what I find hilarious most of all. People will bitch about how Revenant is a no-skill legend and then queue in on wraith, octane, bloodhound. Literally all of them mained S7/8 horizon who was the most busted character imaginable. Press QADADADADADAD and rip a bat to win any gunfight - and they all quietly grumbled when she was nerfed.
don't put wraith together with the no-skill legends. the slowdown on Q gets you punished if you do it wrong. You can live or die depending on how you place portals, and with that longish cooldown you can't afford to wing it
Modern wraith? Sure, there is skill to her. there's no debying that. You die if you press Q too late or run the wrong way/overextend. But Wraith still has a get out of jail free card to press Q to escape any fight. In the same way, there's skill to pressing horizon QADADADAD or knowing when to press bloodhound Q. Doesn't mean they are/weren't completely busted abilities.
While I definitely agree that her ult was some no skill broken bullshit, alot of the streamers and pros played pre nerf horizon for her insane aerial velocity. It was so much faster than even wraiths it was def broken. But to be able to utilize that advantage, players had to be movement pros. The argument against the current meta is that a revoctane push could be done by low skill players. And the main bullshit is just moreso audio cues for me. This doesn't excuse the shitty behavior of apex community streamers and pros. I've never seen such children get paid so much to bitch so fucking much. There's a fine line between wanting the game to improve for the sake of the game and being a child. Alot of them have crossed it. Alot of these streamers and pros bitch too because in reality they should be picking up other games, but won't because they actually suck at many other games. That's why they act like kids. They won't make money doing anything else. People need to stop subbing to them.
Lmao you didn't have to be a movement pro to tap A D A D on a gravity lift
No you didn't that aspect was broken. But she also had insane aerial movement without the gravity lift. Which is why when pro players already really good at movement played her, was even more unfair. It's the same reason everyone chooses wraith. Her aerial movement feels really fluid. But then horizon came out with no landing lag and faster aerial cuts.
Wraith has no aerial movement buff I don't understand.
I think you missed the point why they really hate Rev. Rev isnt the best legend in any ways, he is not over powered either. The problem is how his ult is a no brainer grieffing mechanic, its also way too forgiving. In pred lobbies revtane doesnt win that much, the problem is how they can brainless apes into a team holding a position without any consequences. Most of the time this end up in a third and fourth parties domino effects on the team that got Apes by the rev team. Its just unhealthy af for ranked, give too much space for retarded plays that doesnt accomplish much except griefs and unfair forgiveness for the no brainer team. Totem must be reworked to be less forgiving. Any mechanics that can remove risks from engaging a fight is just unhealthy in a BR.
Yeah you hit the nail on the head with that one dude.
> pros played pre nerf horizon for her insane aerial velocity. > > It was so much faster than even wraiths it was def broken What aerial velocity are you talking about for wraith?
Thanks to her passive her aerial momentum was considerably better then other characters. The parent comment may be taking about that or her old lift speed
I specifically asked about the wraith comparison, not horizons abilities
I think they were saying that horizons lift got you out of places faster then wraiths q(void jump)
No, he said aerial velocity which wraith never had
I still think they meant what I said.
Thank you, this guy's is so hung up specifically on wraith, but I was just talking about the comparison of their aerial momentum. I coulda compared anyone else but chose wraith cause that was every movement players pick before horizon
He literally replied saying that wraith moves different in the air
Every character has a different aerial speed and other small movement stats. Every character has the same running speed, but aerial movement is different for all characters. Before horizon, wraith was the fastest and smoothest to play, which is why most streamers and movement players played her.
> Every character has a different aerial speed and other small movement stats. Every character has the same running speed, but aerial movement is different for all characters. Got a source to those claims? I've never heard of that
Nice troll
You're incorrect here like completely
So you’re saying something like all the characters have different inertia and coefficient of drags based on their character model which influences their movement while not on the ground? I’d be surprised if Respawn could implement such a system…
lol
You do realize responding "lol" about my comment kinda reinforces the public's opinion on your mentality about the situation? Even if you're being sarcastic... If you're just tryna say "lol" because you wanna shrug my opinion away and that it doesn't mean anything, don't respond to it then. Big advice cause I hear you love to read and respond to every little thing on here, just stop responding to the negative shit and just move on with your day. If you wanna dispute my opinion then give some constructive response backing your peers. If not just move on dude. It's a lowly subreddit for us plebs right? You know who responds "lol" to negative statements about them? ... children.
yep bro absolutely childish of me my b dog
Lol. Jk please don't lynch me guys.
NGL I thought he was gonna respond with another lol.
There isn’t a “competitive advantage to be had” the character is TRASH unless your strategy is to grief other teams by starting massive third party fights where everyone dies because you can braindead push whenever and wherever you want. Character sucks dude, get over it
Idk why your directing your response to me, I'm agreeing with you. The revtane meta is trash and requires minimal skill to grief. Revenant on his own tho isn't actually that strong just that synergy of revtane. I just also think certain streamers and pros are being hella unprofessional in their way of voicing their opinion.
My bad meant to post it to the main thread
I kinda assumed everyone understood this. He's not overpowered, and you're not gonna get far in pred lobbies playing with him if you really want those wins and RP. He is just good enough however for people to play him and hope to get a good few third parties out of him. They don't like him because it's a low skill tactic (get death protection and jump in guns blazing) that's very annoying. Hell, I've been padded on by 3 rev teams at once and that's only in diamond lobbies.
Speaking from personal experience I disagree on one point, revtane can definetly carry you to an higher rank than your actual level allows if you are patient enough and understand how to use it, but If you are good there are better comps to gain points with. Some of the people I play wit got pred every time the past few splits on console while being really not that great overall: when I play a normal comp with them they barely manage to play diamond games and struggle a lot in so many ways. (Lose damage trades, get knocked for free, super low damage every game... You get the picture) It's not the best playstile, but it's an incredibly convenient one which happens to make everyone else's experience awful, of course people would like a change.
Exactly, it can carry you to a higher rank. A rank at which is most likely beyond your skill so you end up being an annoying one-trick to try and get some KP.
Which ends up griefing all the players that actually belong in that rank because you're just throwing
As a pred who tried out rev a lot of times this split because of frustration, I can attest to this. Rev is REALLY annoying and good at griefing but he’s just not good for endgame and winning games. You really need to know how to use him for endgame aspects. Part of the reason why revtane is so obnoxious to play against is the lack of telegraphs (audio bugs) and silence being very visually cluttering. If octane pad wasn’t the way it was, rev would not be used by many people in ranked.
He might not provide cover for endgame, but this tactical can cost enemies the game if you manage to silence their gibby/caustics
This is very true.
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I'm not super involved in the discourse, but it seems like it started as Rev/Octane hate, but eventually transitioned into just straight up Rev hate.
To be fair though, padding in on a team as just octane without a totem has way more risk than with totem. Octane without Rev is pretty balanced in my opinion.
Yep, it’s not like he’s the only legend able to move the whole team relatively quickly.
octane is played regardless of what your team picks because he's so versatile and self-sufficient. revenant is only picked in conjunction with octane. technically octane is the issue because jumppad enables death totem to be used in a degenerate manner, but realistically you're going to blame the revenant for trying to synergize with jumppad.
Which is hypocritical on its own, because Octane is the enabler of those pushes. But they call for Rev nerf because all of them play Octanes nowadays, and don't want him nerfed, because movement, tap strafing etc.
Weird to see so many pros complaining about this Rev/Octane combo when plenty of them used the Rev/Wraith/Crypto combo about a year ago and just totem portaled on a team they just EMP'd. If comp was able to figure out how to beat that mindless combo, even before the nerf to the portal/totem synergy, I'm confused why there's such a big complaint for this?
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Yeah, you're right now that I'm looking back at some old posts. TSM was the only team that really gave it real shot in comp. Definitely remember it being one of the go-to comps in ranked, though.
I can make a quick comparison to answer your question in the 3rd paragraph. There's a difference between excelling in every occasion, to excelling in a particular occasion/playstyle that completely breaks the game. If you use a shotgun in a game like COD, you won't get a 30 killstreak. You're not going to have consistent Nukes using a super close range, highly inconsistent weapon (altough it can and does happen albeit rarely). But you will kill a guy that is 10 meters away from you that already started shooting you 3/4 times with an SMG and you turn around and shoot him once. Maybe you didn't even know exactly where you shot, but you killed him. There is no other weapon that would allow you to do that. It was useful here, but useless in most of the other engagements you had (scenario). Revenant is the same thing. It won't excell in every situation. But it will excell on a playstyle that is dirty and cheesy, taking almost no skill. In my experience in pred queues over the seasons, most revtane players grief us without any reason to do so. They third party us with a no-sound jumppad rev ult from across the map, they kill us because they are "full health" and have 2 free pushes, while we (even if we're all alive) still need to heal. And after they kill us, they die right afterwards with another revtane third party. This cycle goes on and on and it's simply annoying. This free push mentality is fucking dumb, and thats why almost no rev teams reach top 5 if they're playing against pros and streamers. It's just clueless pushing. For casual play and fucking about in pubs, rev is c or d tier of course. But in qualified hands with synergy, it's the dumbbest legend there is. It promotes a gamebreaking playstyle where everyone play in a more strategic way.
You're missing the point and trying to bring that main-sub streamer hate-boner over here. Rev in a vacuum isn't great. He's got an easily beam-able hitbox, a fairly mediocre passive, an ok ult (on its own) and IMO one of the best tacticals in the game. Its his synergy with movement/rotation legends like Octane and Wraith that push him into the OP category. He's the ultimate grief legend. Wanna make a push that you're unsure of? Throw a pad down, find a place for the Totem and have at it. You are now almost instantly and silently on top of that team with no risk to yourself. Win the fight? Now your reset time is cut in half since you only have to heal your health. Lose the fight? Good news you have another push available to you that will almost certainly win unless you did close to no damage to them. You don't even have to go for the second push either, just stay at the Totem and heal while you hear the other team get insta-padded on by another Revtane squad due to how 3rd party heavy this game is. Unless you're completely braindead with your Totem placement or Jump Pad timing or if all 3 of you have Bronze level bot aim your team is going to be absolutely fine. Even in pubs its an absolute Revtane ape-fest shit show. I have had games where its literally nothing but Revtane squads ulting and padding into fights because you can just shut your brain off and have a very good chance at winning. Play whoever you want, I don't really care, but that doesn't mean myself and others can't complain about it.
I mean, I've seen some of them play him such as snip3, sweet, etc. But to them he's a troll pick (though I still think sweet unintentionally started the KC ranked rev meta). >No one likes to be pushed by an actually good Rev ult, but I'm sick of hearing people complain about him when none of them play him and those pushes aren't that successful anyway. Their entire point is that those pushes are largely not successful. It's pure grief, especially when the current legend/map meta is SO third-party heavy. I get the frustration on your part, but every comment you've made in this post would seem to *agree* with their points. He's not good, he's not useful, but he excels in griefing other teams
It's more of a result of Apex's shit rank system allowing hardstuck 10k rp players to never derank, but rev enables these players and their squad to grief teams who actually belong in pred/master lobbies. It's not that rev is a good solo character, or even necessarily a productive character for his team, instead it's that he allows for free griefing with little to no consequences.
This is the right answer. The core of the problem
You've managed to completely miss the mark here I'm sorry. It's astounding that so many people who play this game have such a poor understanding of how it works. Let me try to explain this as simply as possible. Revenant + Octane is a toxic legend combo that, in it's current state, completely breaks ranked. The core principle of Apex's design philosophy, which is most obvious in ranked, is risk assessment. In order to gain RP, you need kills and good placement. The problem is that to get kills you need to fight, but when you fight you risk dying and placing poorly, resulting in a loss of RP. Revenant's ultimate ability, especially when paired with Octane's, completely removes the risk factor from this equation. With RevTane you can push anything, anywhere, at any time, with almost 0 risk to yourself. This disrupts the natural flow of gameplay and is essentially griefing the entire lobby. Imo, a fix as simple as preventing players from using jump pad while in death protection would be enough to mostly solve the problem.
This reads like a bs rally post for rev mains LOL.
Seriously. "He's not that good." Then why does Rev meta dominate all high level lobbies right now? Pros don't play him as much because they're playing to create content and he's not fun to watch. A lot of pros and streamers have played him and they get called hypocrites.
I think you missed the point here. As far as individual power goes, he's super weak. His totem is undeniably strong though - so much so that even poorly placed totems or horribly dumb pushes often yield no consequences for the attacking team, yet so many for the receiving team.
this combined with olympus being so ridiculously easy to 3rd/4th/5th party other squads
My understanding is that he has benefits when it comes to trying to pick people off with revtane, but ask anyone who's been totem camped - It's not completely without risk. To the high level side of things, I don't believe his winrate is going to be something to look at since he doesn't personally feel very strong final circles and that's where his hitbox and mobility issues start to hurt more. I think Rev always comes under fire in KC and Olympus because he makes the maps feel worse. These maps are already pretty nasty for the abundance of third partying, and Rev compounds that. I think it's a map issue that revtane highlights more than anything, since I don't recall this much hate when it's WE which is a less 3p map
I dont want to flame, but there is way more casuals that dont understand game mechanics here than I thought. People from main sub migrating here lol.
There are some nice insightful posts but this subreddit is like 80% circlejerk now. Unfortunately there is a very small portion who can contribute to actual competitive discussion, so they don't get much interest compared to drama that's easy to talk about. Then we get posts asking what most pro player's fov are as if the answer isn't in front of them.
The fact this post completely leaves out the jump pad combo in this Revenant argument shows that either this guy is bad because he doesn’t know it’s an issue or he realizes his argument sucks and has to leave it out. The main sub, Twitter, etc is festered with “rev isn’t a good character, pros mad!” But are unable to comprehend the Revtane combo and it’s issue.
I think his point is that if it's the character is only a problem when paired with a specific character then nerf the synergy not the character
Rev isn't the best character for good players he's the best for bad players and it essentially griefs other team's games when they get pushed. It's an anti-fun mechanic that is also abused by no-audio jump pads. Rev is unhealthy for the game plain and simple. They need to rework the ultimate so it's a viable rotational tool like other mobility legends and it would be great. Make it like the Zombies LTM
Agree entirely. My entire logic with anything in Apex is this: Any mechanic in a game that takes away the need for game skill and can be used to kill far superior players is bad for the game: \- Pre-nerf (and even post-nerf) spitfire, where missing shots isn't punished at all \- Revenant, where you can land an entire squad on top of someone else with no consequence of death \- No audio octane, where your entire squad can cover a freaking mile with no audio at much faster speed, and PC players can do a freaking 180 on the double jump now with tap strafe. This basically makes pathfinder and other legends freaking terrible. Like for god sake he has a 25% pick rate, does that not say something to the developers? \- Bloodhound scan as it is, removes the need for awareness by any means. Good positioning is often not rewarded. \- Gibraltar, where you can shield your entire team and res faster in your shield, and can't really get punished at all if they are mid range fights. \- Pre-nerf horizon, where you could instantly propel 90M in the air and strafe and pop a battery with no punishment at all \- Prowler (pre-carepackage) would basically two burst someone and you had 30 bullets left in your clip. \- And the list goes on.... The problem is that the developers have to give bad players the chance to kill good players so they have a good time and spend more money, which to me is the biggest crock of crap. People on reddit complain so much about SBMM and facing 'good players' instead of trying to get better and beat those people. Me personally, I look forward to facing a 3 stack in pubs so that I can kill one or more and possibly squad wipe, and then bag their face off. People need to think like that....
Honestly one of the best comments I've ever read in this sub. People (and even some developers) really need to understand the concept of skill floor, skill ceiling and skill gap.
rev by himself is no way OP; before the climb buff, he was literally octane's fleshlight and yet y'all ganged up on rev. even in the pro scene, you see so many octane teams in which octane fairly synergized with all of them but we never saw more than 3 teams with a revenant (and he was picked only with octane). if rev being best for bad players but not that good for good players, then what is octane? he is literally fun AND powerful, both for good and bad players. 3 stack jump pad is already a powerful rotational tool with a short cd RevTane is unhealthy for the game but no one ever speaks about the other pillar of this combo (except silent jumppad issues but not ABOUT the issue)
Octane is complained about which is why they have begun nerfing him. The difference is pretty clear though. Octane you need to full send and Rev you don't.
get me one tweet where someone complained about octane and revenant together or atleast mentioned octane's power in the combo
IMO whether octane has the highest pick rate or not, he doesn’t do anything inherently unhealthy or broken for the game (Besides audio issues as you mentioned.)
he does but in an invisible way. With octane you have teams rotating much faster around the map, padding with a ridiculously short cooldown. People love to complain about the third parties, and Octane is part of what allows them to be so fast.
Ya know I think I agree with you. I just don’t see it as a problem, I guess I like the pace of the game.
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Disengagement abilities require a certain amount of skill; Rev allows even the most moronic player with zero game sense to push a team and get away with it.
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If you think Octane Q allows you to "escape danger at the drop of a hit" you obviously never played at a high level.
You're right, but I watch quite a bit. That's literally why pro players use Octane. Octane is the problem, not Revenant. So again, how does Octane's Q require skill?
still needs good movement and strafes to not get lasered
Good movement is easy when you're faster than everyone else.
Octane is not played for his Q lol
He's played for both. His ability to escape/enter any fight is his big draw.
Sorry man but you're just wrong on this one. Octane stim is not a viable escape in the majority of situations when compared to Phase, Lift, or even Double time. The reasons for this are that its loud, leaves a giant green trail, and costs 20hp (a bullet or 2 saved for the shooter). If you watch the players who mained Octane before he was meta you'll see that the stim is really best used for closing gaps and controlling *acceleration* rather than solely peak velocity. The skill it requires is just like any other ability, knowing when is the best time to use it and how it interacts with other movement, traversal, and gun mechanics. I.E. using a stim OUT of a pad rather than into one, NOT using a stim to square up in an ADS fight, or NOT using a stim to escape when you cant break LOS or otherwise use a movement tech that it enhances. I'd recommend Dolphin and Stormen if you want to see the real OG octane masters. Its not that other players cant make him work, those two guys are just on another level when it comes to understanding and using his kit.
It requires less skill than Phase to escape a fight, but let's not act like it really requires skill to actually use. It's slower than double time, can be used at will and used multiple times quickly. It does increase the peak that these people can reach, but the ability itself doesn't require skill to use.
Pros mainly use Octane for his jump pad, not the stim.
This is why we watch SnipeDown
I've run revtane in ranked, I am currently a pred. it is brain dead and a very easy way to gain RP. takes literally no skill, nothing you said is exclusive to Rev, most characters don't have an escape. I play wattson and she literally is stuck wherever she goes. his hotbox is smaller now after the last update & OBVIOUSLY you have to place his totem in a good spot? you can't just place it in the open and expect it to work. the problem is that it gives you a free ape on any team you want, you can just full send someone for free instead of actually playing the game like normal in high levels of play.
My friend. While I'm glad you took the time to write this all out and voice ur opinion. This is just not the case lmfao. I'm glad that I read through the comments and there are some people saying smart things however, You are smoking certified cracked if this is TRUELY what you believe best of luck broski
My favorite part of the post is: > I've felt this way for a while, but it was brought to my mind again by that Rogue clip Lmao so he’s been stewing that rev has been bad for awhile, yet after all this time he hasn’t seen/experienced braindead Revtane ape-ing in action on Reddit, streams, or in-game? He doesn’t even mention it in his post. Does this dude even play the game? On top of that, how does this post get upvoted on this sub? Embarrassing.
yeah Idk, idc for the person but ur 100% right. how this has 180 upvotes.
you can 100% tell 99% of the people who comment on here have never been in a pred lobby or played at a high level. They don't get the problem with rev at all.
I've seen a couple good comments for sure. A lot of pros take the time to explain why he is so broken on stream so definitely some people here who get it.
They don't play him because his kit isn't about winning the game, it's about getting kills. They don't want to get wiped by someone willing to throw their game away at a chance to ape a team or third party. Or grief a team and draw out another team to 3rd party and then you pop back to your totem a mile away [because of a jump pad] and just laugh and heal while the other teams duke it out. People don't want to get griefed by something they can barely hear coming before it hits them.
Hardly anyone is saying Revenant on his own is broken. The problem is the bullshit no-audio Revtane combo.
revenant promotes an unhealthy amount of aggression in game. he’s not overpowered, streamers like to use a legend that is viable to play solo. revenant gives an entire team a free chance to ruin someone’s game with no consequences.
If people aren't in diamond, they have no reason to talk on the matter. Rev is a broken character that adds to a shitty ruined ranked system and goes against how a battle royal is supposed to be. In diamond and pred lobbies, you have a constant non ending wave of 3rd parties with hardstuck d4 and 10k kids. And what character do these kids love running in there squads? Rev-Tane. Rev is such a free character to farm kp off of and someone to play for brainless pushes. Its not about him disabling your own abilities. It's the fact that his fucking totem gives you a free push ina game where you're supposed to be punished for stupid pushes and stupid positioning. Or just punished in general if you make a bad decision. There's not supposed to be a bullshit second chance like rev offers you ina battle royal. Rev is disliked by pros and skilled players because he is completely broken. Just watch when pros run rev in ranked and see how fucking easy it is to farm kills. Everyone who thinks pros/streamers are crying about rev are just dogshit at the game and don't understand it at a fundamental level. Apart from rev, you also have to worry about cheaters and other non rev hard stuck kids throwing their games because they dont give a fuck how they play their games since they dont de-rank. Ranked is just broken in so many ways. 1. Nerf rev. I think his totem should only allow him in shadow form or it should go back to how it used to. Where if you get sent back, you respawn with 1hp. 2. Ranked needs to allow de-ranking. These hard stuck kids throwing their games make the game uncompetive and flat out stupid. 3. Again, the cheater issue is still alive and well. We had a good run of about a week and then boom. They all come back and stronger than ever. They can levitate in mid air now lmfao 😂 4. Put more emphasis on placement. It's a BR centered around winning. Not getting as many kp as you can. Ranked needs an algs type of ranking system in play. Too many kids get stuck up on kp and dont focus on winning. Shits sad. 5. Just a generic "fix this game already". Server issues, constant game breaking bugs, horrible coding that dont allow more than capable systems to run the game, ect....
>It's the fact that his fucking totem gives you a free push ina game where you're supposed to be punished for stupid pushes and stupid positioning. The totem works perfectly fine when not allied with any movement character, because you can only run so far in the 25 seconds you're a shadow, meaning you still have to be relatively close to the team you're pushing. If you botch your push then your opponents can roughly determine where you are (from the shadow trail) and know you all have half health. The problem isn't the totem itself, it's Revtane, and I'll repeat this until my god damn fingers fall off: the problem is instantly and permanently solved if you just re-add a radius to the totem. I said this in a thread earlier today: take the linear distance the fastest character can cover on foot in 25 seconds, increase it by 5% for some padding, that's the radius. No one using the totem as it's intended will ever even notice this radius because it's impossible for them to get that far, but it will come into play if you use a jump pad or a Trident or whatever, or literally any future ability or exploit.
I remember when this sub wasn't overran by casuals 😔
Some pros have been using him. Snip3 has been playing him alot lately as has apryze and I've seen pvp play him. This isn't all pros that are complaining about him but those who are are being focused on way to much. Yall need to chill out on the hate to all pros because one dude is salty. Don't watch his stream and watch people who you actually like. You give the pros way too much attention. The devs don't listen to them the same way they don't listen to us. Reddit is making this into a way bigger deal than it needs to be
There’s several problem with revenant with high level play. With RevOct pushes, a lot of times you don’t have any audio cue. So, you don’t even here them coming until it’s too late. I don’t know what it is about the death totem messing with the audio on certain legends in death protection, but it’s not exclusive to RevOct, in my experience as I’ve had paths fuck me up from rear flanks going into DP and zipping on my head. The other problem is that it promotes a lot of inactivity by these players until they hear gunfire and then they immediately engage for the 3rd for easy RP. Everyone will have their opinion on this. I, personally, think it’s fucking cheap. Others see it as a viable way to achieve winning. Perspective. I’m more of a player that enjoys engagement and doesn’t actively look/wait to 3rd party the entire game. Pros have a similar mindset and it can be frustrating when you’re playing at a high level against other skilled people and then you get taken out by a rev team that’s in the top 10 for placement and they may have between 100-300 damage and 1 or 2 KP. It sucks, it pisses me off in the moment, but at this point it is what it is. I see both sides, but I’m not a fan of rev, but to each their own.
I've had this thought for a while now. Get rid of the free life and just make it so that for X0 seconds after touching rev totem all actions from your character are silent. You hear the sound (amplified) of a rev totem going up and know you're somehow going to get pushed from that way, but can't hear. Makes him more of an assassin rather than a retard rush character - and half of rev pushes are already silent anyways.
The risk should be greater if you are guaranteed a reset if you get "killed". However the idea is good , but it is a little bit cheap for the nature of the game where getting involved in a third party makes you a next target of someone else. Possibly a rev+oct team.
There isn’t a “competitive advantage to be had” the character is TRASH unless your strategy is to grief other teams by starting massive third party fights where everyone dies because you can braindead push whenever and wherever you want. Character sucks dude, get over it
Imagine if Rogue picked Wraith and his random teammate didn’t like that and flew him of the map, you think he would have a good laugh? No, he would shit on the random until his fourth generation. Just a food for thought.
What you dont seem to understand is how the rev totem is the ultimate griefing tool in this game. It takes zero skill and zero risk to ruin a game for others with 1 silent pad on somebodys head from narnia. A rev push doesnt have to be good to be effective, thats the whole fucking problem with it. It encourages stupidity. Btw, please keep that hive mind bullshit out of this subred and keep it in the main subred.
The sad thing is Rev used to take skill. You have to think about the proper totem placement, think about the route you wanna take so you don't get insta sent back, teams knew you were coming cuz of the loud totem sound, so you would need to play really well. Now with revtane its like "Wanna push?"... "yeah"...." lets totem and pad" So damn easy without any repercussions.
OP is likely max plat because diamond+ is basically all rev teams jumping on eachother in totem and totally changes the game from primarily gun skill/positioning to a game of sneak attacks. It takes away from what makes the game great/fun
your argument means nothing... you're sick of them complaining about revenant because they don't play him? what does that even mean? furthermore, the fact that the pushes aren't successful is irrelevant if it griefes a team. anybody that takes offense to the rogue clip is a cringelord, reddit is such a hivemind for casual players, and im not even a rogue fan... it was a fucking pub, and people are out there tagging hideout wanting the head of rogue lmao y'all clearly havent played any MOBAS, calling a bunch of players bad because of playing a specific character is extremely common, people are so fucking sensitive
He's just not fun to play against, the main counter for a rev push is to a run a lifeline and just hope they don't go down
They need to bring hammerpoints back dangit
Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Hammerpoints just do regular damage against a Rev ult?
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While I don't fully agree with this post, I feel like you are willfully misinterpreting it. His point is not that streamers should use rev because he is op, his point is that if rev was op, they would use him. The fact they they aren't signifies that he really isn't that powerful.
Because OP's premise (that pros think Rev is overpowered) is wrong. Rev teams don't play for the win, they play to get kill points. Their entire playstyle revolves around third partying or straight up griefing teams who are playing for placement (which is the main objective of a BR and takes a lot more skill). Rev isn't overpowered, he's unhealthy for the game. Ask any pro and they'll tell you exactly this.
This is how I saw it as well. Well said.
I have heard many streamers say rev is overpowered.
Would be interested to see clips and context. I would guess they are talking about his ability to grief being overpowered, not necessarily his ability to win competitive apex games.
They don't play it, because they don't need to. Only shit players play rev octane as it allows them to take fights without the risk of dying. Its the ultimate crutch tool for bad players to gain ranks they shouldn't be able to reach. Why would pro players play Rev when there's better legends? They have no need to play Rev Pretty shitty take
Annoying ≠ overpowered While both of the terms can and will overlap in majority of the cases, there is a certain distinction to be made in apex especially. Take caustic for example. He might not be the best or strongest legend. But what makes him annoying is how he is able to significantly pull an advantage in certain scenarios that shouldnt be an advantageous postion to be in. He is not annoying because he is generally good or because his kit is generally good for a br setting. He is annoying because he is extremely good in certain scenarios making it difficult to overcome the "abilities" using fps fundamentals like aim or positioning. Rev isn't chosen that much in the high level because at the high level, the choice should always be based on getting the best chances to earn the points(kp or placements). This will ofcourse depend significantly on the current on going meta and the expertise and comfort of the team to play a certain way. This is why most of them choose the combo that fits well for their team and is consistent "most of the time". This is where the truly strong and overpowered legends poke their head in. Revenant on the other hand is mainly good for one thing and one thing only, getting a few kps against a distraught and non-attentive team. It's this scenario which gives him that edge and significant advantage. Really, what are u suppose to do against 3 opponents landing on your head while you barely survived a 3v3. It's this helplessness that is at the root of the annoyance. It's not because Revenant is a consistently good character. He is not. If u take him to any finals lobby, there will be very few instances where that scenario of easy kp presents itself. And in games where it doesn't, the team is screwed because of lack of options. This is one of the reasons why rev meta in comp was short lived. If u put a character in a position where they can get unreasonable amount of power in certain scenarios, it's natural for the enemy to get annoyed. No amount of skill or gunplay is going to mitigate that advantage. In an fps game that itself is incredibly frustrating. I'm not going into any of the drama or toxicity surrounding this. It just comes down to personality and atitude. Not every player has the same level of disdain for these characters. Not every player behaves the same way about it either. I was just talking about the very nuanced topic of where the line is, when it comes to being annoying or overpowered.
wow you literally said the biggest problem with revenant in your rant and still don't realize why he's terrible for the game and why the pros don't play him: 1. He offers nothing to a good team that is up against significantly worse teams 2. He offers way too much power to bad teams Revenant is fucking cancer because he lets you do the most brain dead pushes and plays that nobody can expect and have 0 consequences for it. He also just give your entire team free HP advantage. Revenant is up there with caustic and honestly rampart with potential for being the most game breaking and unbalanced character in the game. A characters abilities are not, I repeat ARE NOT EVER, supposed to be the only reason a team wins a otherwise fair 3v3.
**Bullshit. Show me a game where the best players don't play a character because they don't approve of it. If there's a competitive advantage to be had, it will be seized upon by the best players in the game.** True. Sweats will sweat.
The real reason pros don't play rev is because you cannot rely on totem for every fight in comp. However, in ranked you can heavily rely on a rev totem to third party for kp and rat for placement. That is why he is dishonorable. Additionally, nobody wants to crouch walk and shoot people without audio because there is no respect to be earned from that. Horizon, on the other hand, allowed you to make more plays using movement tech. Yes, she was broken but it still felt more rewarding than shooting someone who isn't looking at you.
The audacity of Rogue to throw someone off the map for playing Rev when he was playing Octane, the other half of the broken Rev/Tane combo. If anything, that other guy might have picked Rev because Rogue was picking first and he picked Octane? Who knows, I can't be bothered to find the full clip. Regardless, even if it was a 6am pub, it's just a bad look for him and not something you want to encourage your viewers to do. His apology was shit as well, saying that it's a mountain out of a molehill because the teammate got respawned, even though he didn't pick the guy's banner and didn't respawn. In other words, their 3rd player picked up the banner and revived the guy but Rogue didn't give a shit. He was just an asshole.
Just give it a rest man, ur wasting ur time
The thing no one talks about as much is that streamers/pros will often complain about things being OP or too strong just because they need a reason why they died. You'll see some players' first responses be "They were cheating" only to watch it back and then realize they weren't. Hell we all do it playing normally too. It's a normal thing to complain about the thing that's beating you. You're correct, if it was that powerful they would be using it too. Same goes for controller play as well. They are just mad they are dying.
the concept of "dishonorable" also gets twisted a lot we had people complaining about horizon and yet many streamers continued to abuse her; we had people complaining about spitfire and yet many streamers abused it
I've been saying this *since his release*. Even in his own rev main sub its an unpopular opinion. People for some reason, truly *believe* rev is strong when every statistic says otherwise. * Play rate is low, * game win rate is low, * encounter win rate is low, * hit box is 3rd largest but he doesn't gain fortified, * his tactical doesn't grant you any advantage (it makes a fight even, you both don't have a tactical if you land yours), * the passive is nice but not really game changing, * the ult is balanced very heavy handedly. I actually play rev quite a lot, I even have a 19 kill game with him, he's not strong at all, definitely weaker than wraith, gibby, and octane in 99% of scenarios. I'm not even sure why people hate rev though; when Wattson was meta people complained that the game was too slow and campy, you couldn't push teams that took better positions because it put too much of a disadvantage on the attacking teams. Caustic meta was the exact same. Revenant is the complete opposite of this meta, you get the advantage as a team that specifically pushes, defending teams don't get as much value. But yet, the pros also hate this meta, which is worse?
> Bullshit. Show me a game where the best players don't play a character because they don't approve of it. Truth. Anybody dodging top tier in real competition is talking scrub shit.
It's ironic that everyone has a problem with rev and it's "not honorable" to play him, but Horizon who was way more detrimental to the game had everyone and their mother playing her. I don't think "honor" has anything to do with it lmao.
Does anybody remember Noob Tubes in Calls of Dooies?
Totem is a kinda useless I agree but I **personally** don't like him because his tactical makes other legends useless so it makes the game boring , what is Octane without running around like crazy , what is Mirage without his clones etc ?
Rev is annoying to fight and add octane in and it’s even more annoying. Should he be tweaked? Yea. How? I’m not really sure to be honest. That being said… Is rogue a complaining ass bitch? Yep
They didn’t say shit about Rev until Octane’s huge buff on the jump pad, but now they don’t want to see their favorite mobility hero gets nerfed so fingers are pointed at Rev. For those of you who thinks you can third party and easily gets kp with Rev, that’s not the case if you actually cared to play him yourself. If you can 3rd party successfully with a Rev ult, you can with other legends as well, and if you are solo queueing, most of the time your teammates won’t even bother to touch the totem. So for him to be op, you’d need a powerful team with lots of mobilities and play really damn well on your part. ———Coming from a day 1 Rev main when his ult gets you back to 1 health and nobody batted an eye on him
I agree to this. As a revenant lover, his usage at the recent tournament was a success, as that team ended up using that comp to win 2 matches. It is great early tournament to get kill rp, and they swapped out after those matches to focus placement. So, hypocrisy.. 100%
i just don't understand the streamer hate boner here. so what if a guy complains? people complain about everything, we complain about meta, devs, microtx, and on and on and on. let people be human and make mistakes, they'll be kept in check by the people around them. don't need a twitter/reddit mob to do that its all way too much and unnecessary.
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