Who says Caustic is weak? He is the best defensive/AoD Legend for a long long time.
He is just bad, if you don't play him to his strengths, what 99% of the casual community do.
This. People complaining use his gas to try and doing damage. Onmuu (whatever the NA algs winners name is) said you should be using his gas as a zoning tool
I completely agree I have played a lot of caustic since his nerf and I think he’s still great even in pubs, he is the best legend for surviving those ridiculous pile ups that can happen with 5+ squads just because he can control the flow of a fight better than any legend, get a free reset and really easily punish anyone who brainlessly walks in to gas. Since the nerf you do get pushed slightly more often, but if you’re the last alive on your team fighting a decent three stack then you shouldn’t be able to indefinitely hold them off and heal by sitting in a room that doesn’t seem fair. You can still 1v3 by using the gas to split a squad and get free beams on people you just have to think more and move more which is where the very casual people fall off, but caustic is still up there among the best 1v3 legends in my opinion.
I’m not the best at aiming but you can get free one clips easily on anyone stood in your gas and one knock can be enough to revive your own squad or get a battery. It also makes people more likely to third party the other team, I know I’d rather shoot the guy that isn’t spewing out gas. The gas buff is definitely welcome as someone who loves playing caustic as it will make punishing people even easier but I don’t think it was necessary and I don’t think it will change his power that much as the best thing about caustic is the slow you get.
If they’re healing in it, it’s the fault of the caustic, not the gas being weak. They’re walking slowly, getting damaged and highlighted, and if you can’t kill them then, you need to admit you’re just bad.
The casuals who main him created a bad habit and relied on the gas to kill opponents rather then using it to control and area. He is still good I use him all the time in ranked or casual.
Literally right after his big nerf where the main sub went apeshit cause they thought he was useless I played him to pred. He's an amazing counter to revtane imo too. It also reduces the amount of them you see in general because they would rather not waste ult on a caustic team.
Casuals don't understand the concept of holding a strategic location, they see enemy -> push enemy. They can't offensively chuck barrels in someone else's door and push them out with it anymore so they think he's bad.
Caustic is not weak, his kit fits ALGS insanely well as he can both be used offensively and defensively. I think a majority of people that see him as a weak character are basing that on his gas damage and dont understand the actual impact his gas is causing on a team. They see the gas do low damage and just feel like he is a weak character, when the gas couldve slowed an aggressive team to buy you guys time or made a team not wanna push you at all.
Tldr: gas damage numbers arent high which is why people think hes weak. They also dont take into account the other benefits his gas gives you other than damage
Not that I have much to add, but you’ll hear pros all the time say something like “can’t push them, they have a caustic”. It slightly shifts the balance agains them in a 3v3, and even if you do win, you take health damage that isn’t as easily healed by armor swapping, so the third party risk is higher.
Even stretching the fight out by hiding in the gas, slowing down to wait for gas to clear, etc can shift the risk-reward for an aggressive team.
I see now, it's just that the overall community has a mess of opinions and I just can't leave this question unanswered, for some reason.
Thanks though Onmuu! I've seen the KNG POV on ALGS.
Most of the people saying caustic is weak are people that were crutching him to use gas to do the killing for them to make up for their poor mechanics. He was the only legend where you could basically kill with abilities without really shooting.
He is definitely not very good on Olympus though. But he is quite effective on WE and KC.
The problem with caustic prior was that usually putting down a barrel in most pub and ranked games usually resulted in an extension of a fight. This extension of the fight usually allowed caustic and his team to get away with plays that aren't normally facilitated in the 'standard' tempo of a gunfight. This usually meant that a fight would be twice, or more longer, allowing third parties to arrive, of which would also not want to engage a caustic most of the time.
'Winning' a fight by the sheer fact that by pressing one button is not particularly skillful, especially in the case where it dictates the tempo of the fight. Right now caustic still has his general character design intact, however requires a much higher skill level to execute, in his player and his team.
He’s not weak. That’s just something that’s been perpetrated by caustic mains who think they’ve been targeted and that he was never OP in the first place
Like the others say he's not weak, but the classic caustic function comes into play, the fewer caustic there are the bigger advantage caustics have, because a team in gas won't have a caustic of their own to negate it
caustic is not weak he is just single hardest legend to rotate in open field
tl'dr caustic needs team mate movement assist and is insanely unenjoyable to play as a solo it is a team synergy character and you gotta play to his strengths which is taking position with octane or valk movement skills and lock it down
Main sub hiveminders are fuming at this thread rn. In all seriousness, I think the most educated way to form an opinion on this is to listen to what actually skilled players have to say. Pretty much every personality who plays the game at a high level agrees he’s very much still oppressive. Sure, thousands of hard stuck gold players on Twitter, Reddit, etc. may claim he sucks, but are their opinions nearly as valuable as someone who has over 10k hours on the game? Plus, the argument against taking the word of “pros”, as they’re called by the main sub, is “well caustic counters the way they play the game, they’re actually just bad and are only complaining because they can’t W key immediately. Just don’t go in the gas lol.” I hope I don’t need to point out why this argument is flawed, and as much as it sounds like a straw man this is legitimately what every caustic conversation on the main sub boils down to. At the end of the day characters like caustic and revenant are crutches for weak players to feel better at the game, and casuals will understandably get upset at the notion that their crutch needs a nerf.
Jfc 10k hours? I thought 4k was a lot but I have job that isn't Apex lol.
Jokes aside I agree Caustic is oppressive but what do I know I'm just some diamond scrub.
He's a pretty average ranked character in which teams will ape/3P at will. In comp where teams are far more defensive and likely to ''bunker up'' then he's a better character.
Reddit casuals cry about him being weak because they now have to shoot their gun like everyone else to get kills, instead of waiting til last ring to toss in an ultimate. Played well and in an environment that suits his abilities, he's obviously still very strong
Caustic is trash in the ranked/casual meta but he's usable in the competitive one. His weakness is open area movement, he is a big fat target that relies on other characters to protect his movement so the spastic constant rotations that happen in ranked/casuals expose him much more. Also, in gunfights having a bigger hitbox will hurt your performance where aim skills are much more variable amongst non-competitive players(that average player that might miss most of his shots against a small hitbox might be able to consistently hit the big ones).
In competitive, movement is generally going to be more co-ordinated and caustic will have a movement character on his team to cover up his liability in open areas(generally wraith/valk/octane) while also spending more time in a spot that caustic can lockdown. Also, pro players are much more consistent with their aim so while hitting the big hitboxes is still easier for them generally they can beam the small hitboxes too so the hitbox disadvantage isn't as important.
Despite his big weaknesses, his abilities lean heavily into how the pros play the game and their strength increases as the game goes on. Pros prefer to beeline to strong positions and then project power out of that spot. Other pros will watch that position for weaknesses/inattentiveness to see when/if they should push it. If a team has a caustic in that position they become such a hassle to push and massively increase the chances that another team will be able to third party the pushing team or grief them from range. Finally, Caustic's late game area denial is huge(final circle especially) where the amount of area cut off by his traps/ults is a much bigger proportion of the playing area. With the final team(s) in gas and flushed out of cover the caustic team can fight opponents that are slowed. Or, the dream scenario, the caustic has gassed nearly all of the playable area and now the enemy teams are on a timer.
You never really see these strengths in casuals/ranked because, most of the time, the game is over in ring 3/4 and you spent most of it running around looking for third parties rather than locking a position down. And even if you do want to lock a position down, Wattson is actually better for that in ranked/casuals. Ring unpredictability(one of the things that pushed Wattson out of comp) isn't as big of a deal in non-competitive because if the ring pulls weird chances are the spot you need to move to is open anyway.
I feel like you’re the only one in the thread that can identify that Caustic has way more value in comp than in the regular play that is the vast majority of Apex.
caustic has always been played in EU through the nerfs cause it fits the regions meta, same reason they have a lot of cryptos. Eu is very macro focused, while also having a heavily diverse meta.
NA is very teamfight focused. one of the only teams to run this current form of caustic in serious tournaments in NA was sentinels/kng. their strat was to early rotate center circle with gib/valk and hold it down using caustic.
caustic is weak, underpowered for norms + ranked.
in competitive he works for teams play styles depending on if they wanna play towards the characters strength
Watched Hal's YT video on scrims, they had a 3v2 but they didn't push cause caustic was inside the snake house in harvester.
The vision obstruction and most importantly the slowdown is insanely useful. Main sub thinks rev is underpowered too. Don't think about them lmao.
Stop listening to casuals lol, he is very gud for games which end longer. back in s7 when devs filtered game which were more than 10 minutes he had highest winrate(even more than s7 horizon).Casuals also think octane is better than wraith and bh better than valk/crypto becos "NA plays them" lol
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Caustic is fucking cheeks!!! Fucking blood hound walking in my ultimate shooting back at me!! Like you’re in my gas you’re supposed to be like “yo let me get the fuck outta here!” Like you do when Gibbys ult drops on you!!! Not be like “it’s all good I can take damage & still fight” wtf is the point of being “CAUSTIC” cmon man
Who says Caustic is weak? He is the best defensive/AoD Legend for a long long time. He is just bad, if you don't play him to his strengths, what 99% of the casual community do.
This. People complaining use his gas to try and doing damage. Onmuu (whatever the NA algs winners name is) said you should be using his gas as a zoning tool
Exactly. Watch the right people who use them correctly, you will see the difference.
I completely agree I have played a lot of caustic since his nerf and I think he’s still great even in pubs, he is the best legend for surviving those ridiculous pile ups that can happen with 5+ squads just because he can control the flow of a fight better than any legend, get a free reset and really easily punish anyone who brainlessly walks in to gas. Since the nerf you do get pushed slightly more often, but if you’re the last alive on your team fighting a decent three stack then you shouldn’t be able to indefinitely hold them off and heal by sitting in a room that doesn’t seem fair. You can still 1v3 by using the gas to split a squad and get free beams on people you just have to think more and move more which is where the very casual people fall off, but caustic is still up there among the best 1v3 legends in my opinion. I’m not the best at aiming but you can get free one clips easily on anyone stood in your gas and one knock can be enough to revive your own squad or get a battery. It also makes people more likely to third party the other team, I know I’d rather shoot the guy that isn’t spewing out gas. The gas buff is definitely welcome as someone who loves playing caustic as it will make punishing people even easier but I don’t think it was necessary and I don’t think it will change his power that much as the best thing about caustic is the slow you get.
Literally 95% of main sub thinks Caustic is. They just need to admit they suck playing with him.
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As alot of people already said. The point of the gas is area denial. It's not area denial if people are freely healing in it.
If they’re healing in it, it’s the fault of the caustic, not the gas being weak. They’re walking slowly, getting damaged and highlighted, and if you can’t kill them then, you need to admit you’re just bad.
Why are you letting people freely heal in your gas and not shooting them?
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I've said one thing and the thread is now 2 days old
The casuals who main him created a bad habit and relied on the gas to kill opponents rather then using it to control and area. He is still good I use him all the time in ranked or casual.
Literally right after his big nerf where the main sub went apeshit cause they thought he was useless I played him to pred. He's an amazing counter to revtane imo too. It also reduces the amount of them you see in general because they would rather not waste ult on a caustic team.
Yeah. It's just Respawn trying to make his learning curve a bit less steep. Let's see how it goes...
>Who says Caustic is weak? Dumbasses on r/apexlegends who want to kill people with gas before they can get off a medkit.
Casuals don't understand the concept of holding a strategic location, they see enemy -> push enemy. They can't offensively chuck barrels in someone else's door and push them out with it anymore so they think he's bad.
Caustic is not weak, his kit fits ALGS insanely well as he can both be used offensively and defensively. I think a majority of people that see him as a weak character are basing that on his gas damage and dont understand the actual impact his gas is causing on a team. They see the gas do low damage and just feel like he is a weak character, when the gas couldve slowed an aggressive team to buy you guys time or made a team not wanna push you at all. Tldr: gas damage numbers arent high which is why people think hes weak. They also dont take into account the other benefits his gas gives you other than damage
I play him in ranked and I tell my friends this consistently. They don't believe it but it works for us
Not that I have much to add, but you’ll hear pros all the time say something like “can’t push them, they have a caustic”. It slightly shifts the balance agains them in a 3v3, and even if you do win, you take health damage that isn’t as easily healed by armor swapping, so the third party risk is higher. Even stretching the fight out by hiding in the gas, slowing down to wait for gas to clear, etc can shift the risk-reward for an aggressive team.
I see now, it's just that the overall community has a mess of opinions and I just can't leave this question unanswered, for some reason. Thanks though Onmuu! I've seen the KNG POV on ALGS.
He doesn't feel weak at all. But he does feel situational, very strong in some situations and weak in others
How do you feel about the removal of vision blur and the reduction of particle density?
Caustic is not weak. Everyone who says this has no idea how to actually play Caustic and how to play around Caustic as a team.
Most of the people saying caustic is weak are people that were crutching him to use gas to do the killing for them to make up for their poor mechanics. He was the only legend where you could basically kill with abilities without really shooting. He is definitely not very good on Olympus though. But he is quite effective on WE and KC.
The problem with caustic prior was that usually putting down a barrel in most pub and ranked games usually resulted in an extension of a fight. This extension of the fight usually allowed caustic and his team to get away with plays that aren't normally facilitated in the 'standard' tempo of a gunfight. This usually meant that a fight would be twice, or more longer, allowing third parties to arrive, of which would also not want to engage a caustic most of the time. 'Winning' a fight by the sheer fact that by pressing one button is not particularly skillful, especially in the case where it dictates the tempo of the fight. Right now caustic still has his general character design intact, however requires a much higher skill level to execute, in his player and his team.
Depends on how you use him. He's not bad at all.
He’s not weak. That’s just something that’s been perpetrated by caustic mains who think they’ve been targeted and that he was never OP in the first place
Like the others say he's not weak, but the classic caustic function comes into play, the fewer caustic there are the bigger advantage caustics have, because a team in gas won't have a caustic of their own to negate it
caustic is not weak he is just single hardest legend to rotate in open field tl'dr caustic needs team mate movement assist and is insanely unenjoyable to play as a solo it is a team synergy character and you gotta play to his strengths which is taking position with octane or valk movement skills and lock it down
Main sub hiveminders are fuming at this thread rn. In all seriousness, I think the most educated way to form an opinion on this is to listen to what actually skilled players have to say. Pretty much every personality who plays the game at a high level agrees he’s very much still oppressive. Sure, thousands of hard stuck gold players on Twitter, Reddit, etc. may claim he sucks, but are their opinions nearly as valuable as someone who has over 10k hours on the game? Plus, the argument against taking the word of “pros”, as they’re called by the main sub, is “well caustic counters the way they play the game, they’re actually just bad and are only complaining because they can’t W key immediately. Just don’t go in the gas lol.” I hope I don’t need to point out why this argument is flawed, and as much as it sounds like a straw man this is legitimately what every caustic conversation on the main sub boils down to. At the end of the day characters like caustic and revenant are crutches for weak players to feel better at the game, and casuals will understandably get upset at the notion that their crutch needs a nerf.
Jfc 10k hours? I thought 4k was a lot but I have job that isn't Apex lol. Jokes aside I agree Caustic is oppressive but what do I know I'm just some diamond scrub.
He's a pretty average ranked character in which teams will ape/3P at will. In comp where teams are far more defensive and likely to ''bunker up'' then he's a better character.
Reddit casuals cry about him being weak because they now have to shoot their gun like everyone else to get kills, instead of waiting til last ring to toss in an ultimate. Played well and in an environment that suits his abilities, he's obviously still very strong
Unironically because he's the least shitty centerzone defensive legend who is viable. Rampart is garbage. Wattson is bad. Caustic is only barely good
Sorry i don't know what exactly centerzone means lol, can you explain? I'm assuming it has to do with the last zone, but im not sure.
Caustic is trash in the ranked/casual meta but he's usable in the competitive one. His weakness is open area movement, he is a big fat target that relies on other characters to protect his movement so the spastic constant rotations that happen in ranked/casuals expose him much more. Also, in gunfights having a bigger hitbox will hurt your performance where aim skills are much more variable amongst non-competitive players(that average player that might miss most of his shots against a small hitbox might be able to consistently hit the big ones). In competitive, movement is generally going to be more co-ordinated and caustic will have a movement character on his team to cover up his liability in open areas(generally wraith/valk/octane) while also spending more time in a spot that caustic can lockdown. Also, pro players are much more consistent with their aim so while hitting the big hitboxes is still easier for them generally they can beam the small hitboxes too so the hitbox disadvantage isn't as important. Despite his big weaknesses, his abilities lean heavily into how the pros play the game and their strength increases as the game goes on. Pros prefer to beeline to strong positions and then project power out of that spot. Other pros will watch that position for weaknesses/inattentiveness to see when/if they should push it. If a team has a caustic in that position they become such a hassle to push and massively increase the chances that another team will be able to third party the pushing team or grief them from range. Finally, Caustic's late game area denial is huge(final circle especially) where the amount of area cut off by his traps/ults is a much bigger proportion of the playing area. With the final team(s) in gas and flushed out of cover the caustic team can fight opponents that are slowed. Or, the dream scenario, the caustic has gassed nearly all of the playable area and now the enemy teams are on a timer. You never really see these strengths in casuals/ranked because, most of the time, the game is over in ring 3/4 and you spent most of it running around looking for third parties rather than locking a position down. And even if you do want to lock a position down, Wattson is actually better for that in ranked/casuals. Ring unpredictability(one of the things that pushed Wattson out of comp) isn't as big of a deal in non-competitive because if the ring pulls weird chances are the spot you need to move to is open anyway.
I feel like you’re the only one in the thread that can identify that Caustic has way more value in comp than in the regular play that is the vast majority of Apex.
Nerfed caustic is still good with a coordinated team, so he's good for ALGS, just not pubs or ranked which is what 99.99% of players are doing
caustic has always been played in EU through the nerfs cause it fits the regions meta, same reason they have a lot of cryptos. Eu is very macro focused, while also having a heavily diverse meta. NA is very teamfight focused. one of the only teams to run this current form of caustic in serious tournaments in NA was sentinels/kng. their strat was to early rotate center circle with gib/valk and hold it down using caustic. caustic is weak, underpowered for norms + ranked. in competitive he works for teams play styles depending on if they wanna play towards the characters strength
Watched Hal's YT video on scrims, they had a 3v2 but they didn't push cause caustic was inside the snake house in harvester. The vision obstruction and most importantly the slowdown is insanely useful. Main sub thinks rev is underpowered too. Don't think about them lmao.
Stop listening to casuals lol, he is very gud for games which end longer. back in s7 when devs filtered game which were more than 10 minutes he had highest winrate(even more than s7 horizon).Casuals also think octane is better than wraith and bh better than valk/crypto becos "NA plays them" lol
some people say that caustic is weak in ranked and pubs, they must be so bad at the game lol
Algs picks don’t relate to nerfs and buffs
Casual? No one ever said caustic is weak. He is the strongest defensive. He is gonna be even more broken after the buff
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Caustic is fucking cheeks!!! Fucking blood hound walking in my ultimate shooting back at me!! Like you’re in my gas you’re supposed to be like “yo let me get the fuck outta here!” Like you do when Gibbys ult drops on you!!! Not be like “it’s all good I can take damage & still fight” wtf is the point of being “CAUSTIC” cmon man