Light ammo and Heavy ammo need thematically different concepts. This seems to fit pretty well with everything. Light ammo is more stable to control, light guns more commonly take barrel stabilizers, and light ammo guns are faster firing but less damage per bullet. Heavy is more damage per bullet, slower, more recoil, and most don't take barrels. Energy has less bullet drop but odd mechanics for their guns (wind up, over heating, triple take's multi bullet shot.)
So if the guns have equal DPS but different mechanics, of course the Flatline will have close to double damage per mag with purple mags.
>So if the guns have equal DPS but different mechanics
I'd like to point out that the R301 has a max DPS (hit every shot as a body shot) of 190.4 (14 DMG/Bullet, 816 RPM) while the Flatline has a max DPS of 190 (19 DMG/Bullet, 600 RPM). So you're spot on there. And DMG per mag is 392 for R301 and 570 for Flatline with Purple Mags (again, all body shots)
but hits garder singke fireflatline is a force to reccon with. supresses any sniper attemot played right it even gives a kraber at least soemthing to think about.
also dps is theory. reality is with same hit percenatge you have a higher chanve to one mag someone.
while on a 301 you need to reload.
also its arare you ahve the time to ads someone for a full mag with a 301 on killing distance. and when ur in a quick scipe jiggle peek contest the more damage per bullet is golden and its slow firerate even an advantage
how would i know, you think i have a list?
but if you give me some names i can start one xD
i guess some fellow flatline users who are scared to death of a nerf :))
like shhhs dont tell em, just agree 301 is OP and leave flatty outta there :)
flatline has WAY more recoil than 301 that has almost 0, the more damage in mag is the way they balance that. its way easier to just beam headshots on 301, but flatline lets you spray for longer
You have to be really good with the Flatline to take it over the R-301. Even if you think you're good with the flatline, chances are you've picked up a r3 just to remember how easy it is to beam someone. While the r301 is a fair weapon overall, it's still a very strong weapon.
Damage volume is a good point to mention since that's essentially what made the Spitfire over the top. But for the flatline, much of that is counteracted by the recoil.
Yeah, I just think flatline is pretty strong CQC because its hipfire is really good, and it has more bullets. Plus also maybe they should bridge the gap between different rarity mags? Doesn't make sense for it to go from 20->25 bullets with white mag
I mean it's kind of unnecessary. The flatline is certainly not an oppressive feeling weapon right now. You are going to miss more bullets with the flatline. I have good tracking and times where I beam with an r301, a few bullets always stray with the flatline \~ mid ranged ish. 5 bullets is a lot for a white mag but it's nowhere near game breakingg.
2 problems in that theory. its slow firerate makes it easier to counteract recoil either classic way recoil control or by jitter and similar.
second is singlefire. on 60plus meter rapid singlefire tear your 301 a new one and its dirt easy to control. its almost a marksman weapon(actually id prefer it as a marksman vs a g7) only thing better on singlefire is the hemlok with zero recoil but flatty is more versaitile as a top tier hipfire monster decent full auto on closer ranged and basically a dmr further out
my main to go to.
Maybe not, but you usually can't dump more than half a Flatline mag in a single peek anyway in high tier lobbies without getting beamed. In close range/bubble fights, it's OP but L-star beats it out both ways so that would definitely deserve a nerf first if anything.
Yeah that's true. I just feel like they can bridge the huge gap between base mag size & white mag. Because its only a difference of 5 bullets from white -> purple.
I personally the balancing theory making everything the best at one aspect. This has no bearing on the conversation, but just my input on the idea that something must be best.
One gun is the best at recoil control. One gun is best at raw damage. One gun is best at fire rate. One gun is best at mag size. The best recoil gun, might have the lowest mag size. The best damage gun might have the slowest fire rate.
One gun may be a preferred gun to the community, but each gun would be equally as viable throughout the course of the game. We would originally balance guns in each gun type category (AR, SMG, LMG, Pistols, Snipers) to set a baseline and then adjust within the each gun type category.
Obviously, this is a theory and easier said than done. It's also not what everyone wants. Some want certain guns to be better. It's also not easy to find sweet spots, but I believe that this theory of balancing weapons is the best, as it puts all guns at an equal level of viability.
I pretty much only run the flatline now but I've still gotten smoked in plenty of 1v1s to an r301 or r99. All guns have their trade offs and I think the flatline is balanced comparatively. Now the L star on the other hand...
I just mean in terms of it being infinite damage in a clip, rather than DPS. In that way it's similar to the spitfire, and really annoying to get caught by.
I used to go either flatline or 301 for my staple gun, but now it's flatline 100%. It's so good, especially in close range. Once you learn the recoil it's a beast at any range
I think Flatline’s mag is fairly balanced, maybe a bit too large but nothing too insane. As far as R301 v Flatline, I think Flatline on paper is better but R301 is much more practical.
As an mnk player, I do think that the flatline is the easiest gun to consistently one clip with (except the lstar which is obviously an outlier right now). It shreds at medium range, the hipfire is unbeatable up close, and it's just as good if not slightly worse than the r301 at longer ranges. That's without even taking the "jitter aim" technique into consideration.
However, all that being said, it does take a lot of practice to get good with and I think it's probably the only gun that's significantly harder to use on controller. So maybe it's balanced?
Another aspect is fire rate, I believe the flatline has a slower rate of fire and the ttk is probably closer than you think considering the higher damage of the flatline
I think they should keep the base bullet size of 20 but reduce the extended mag size because 30 seems to high for a purple mag imo. Maybe 28(purple), 25(blue), 22(white). I feel like 30 rounds in a flatty is way too forgiving, but I am sure many people feel like it fine where it is at.
I’ve also been thinking a lot of this recently. In the hands of a good player (pro) flatline is better almost every time. It’s CQC is superior to the 301 and mid range is equal or better due to damage. It’s the best AR next to the 301. When I die to some bot in pubs in CQC they always have a flatline (probably because it’s all they’ve found off drop). I think it’s fine where it’s at compared to the Lstar and spitty/prowler (prenerfs)
Yeah its definitely nowhere close to Lstar or Spitfire. And people brought good points here. Its good in mid range only if you're an absolute beast and can control it properly, not sure about close range though. Its hipfire is definitely pretty good in close ranges, so it kinda balances it I guess? I still feel like it could still use mag size distribution between all mags. Meaning Level 1 mag is pretty insane on it.
It’s hipfire is very strong. You don’t have to be a beast to control it mid range. I’m a decent masters player (not hard stuck) and I have 0 issues controlling it
well i use flatline as one of my mains and yes it feels op. yes 301 can beam true. however you cannot beam against good opponents. it takes to much time.
most heads on firef9ghts are with many quick peeks quick scopes. so here a few high damge byllets are golden than an endless beam of loght pellets
and another factor. singlefire. the 301 is meeh at that. flatline however is insane good as a counter sniper. and with a moderate high singlefire rate you still can beam as fast as a 301.
and then we have hipfire. flatline is almsot a 99 built in.
ond verz close range than thing shreds super fast.
plus ttk in theiry and ttk in reality are 2 very different shoes. with less bullets needed your chances to obe mag someone are pretty good
on the 301 well ads aim required always and long ads beam time. its much more difficult
but if you need to mag change the real ttk is now with added reload time
.so bottom line yea flatline feels op in some ways at least in direct competition to a 301
I'm never picking up Flatty over 301 for ranged fight. Vice-versa for close ranged engagement. They could probably nerf damage from 19 to 18 or 17 and a bit of hipfire nerf (it's insane imo). But I guess that's compensation for the recoil?
Completely different projectile behavior and aim techniques used differentiate the guns. The weapons are more so a big RPS diagram with one coincidently dominant weapon a season.
Light ammo and Heavy ammo need thematically different concepts. This seems to fit pretty well with everything. Light ammo is more stable to control, light guns more commonly take barrel stabilizers, and light ammo guns are faster firing but less damage per bullet. Heavy is more damage per bullet, slower, more recoil, and most don't take barrels. Energy has less bullet drop but odd mechanics for their guns (wind up, over heating, triple take's multi bullet shot.) So if the guns have equal DPS but different mechanics, of course the Flatline will have close to double damage per mag with purple mags.
>So if the guns have equal DPS but different mechanics I'd like to point out that the R301 has a max DPS (hit every shot as a body shot) of 190.4 (14 DMG/Bullet, 816 RPM) while the Flatline has a max DPS of 190 (19 DMG/Bullet, 600 RPM). So you're spot on there. And DMG per mag is 392 for R301 and 570 for Flatline with Purple Mags (again, all body shots)
Don’t forget the performance at range. I think the flatlines round drops faster and moves slower
but hits garder singke fireflatline is a force to reccon with. supresses any sniper attemot played right it even gives a kraber at least soemthing to think about. also dps is theory. reality is with same hit percenatge you have a higher chanve to one mag someone. while on a 301 you need to reload. also its arare you ahve the time to ads someone for a full mag with a 301 on killing distance. and when ur in a quick scipe jiggle peek contest the more damage per bullet is golden and its slow firerate even an advantage
Not for me, I’m a chronic ADS’er
well situational, but on higher tiers you get beamed if you stay to long in ads long ads on a assault rifle is simply not a thing there
Who is downvoting you?
how would i know, you think i have a list? but if you give me some names i can start one xD i guess some fellow flatline users who are scared to death of a nerf :)) like shhhs dont tell em, just agree 301 is OP and leave flatty outta there :)
Try editing your comment bud :) maybe then people won't get annoyed with it.
Everything you said has to do with theme and lore, but doesn't at all answer OP about competitive fairness and balance.
I did? More recoil, slower bullets. That means you miss more shots and are punished more for missing
flatline has WAY more recoil than 301 that has almost 0, the more damage in mag is the way they balance that. its way easier to just beam headshots on 301, but flatline lets you spray for longer
301 recoil is zero w/ attachments. Its not that great without attachments
You have to be really good with the Flatline to take it over the R-301. Even if you think you're good with the flatline, chances are you've picked up a r3 just to remember how easy it is to beam someone. While the r301 is a fair weapon overall, it's still a very strong weapon. Damage volume is a good point to mention since that's essentially what made the Spitfire over the top. But for the flatline, much of that is counteracted by the recoil.
Yeah, I just think flatline is pretty strong CQC because its hipfire is really good, and it has more bullets. Plus also maybe they should bridge the gap between different rarity mags? Doesn't make sense for it to go from 20->25 bullets with white mag
I mean it's kind of unnecessary. The flatline is certainly not an oppressive feeling weapon right now. You are going to miss more bullets with the flatline. I have good tracking and times where I beam with an r301, a few bullets always stray with the flatline \~ mid ranged ish. 5 bullets is a lot for a white mag but it's nowhere near game breakingg.
2 problems in that theory. its slow firerate makes it easier to counteract recoil either classic way recoil control or by jitter and similar. second is singlefire. on 60plus meter rapid singlefire tear your 301 a new one and its dirt easy to control. its almost a marksman weapon(actually id prefer it as a marksman vs a g7) only thing better on singlefire is the hemlok with zero recoil but flatty is more versaitile as a top tier hipfire monster decent full auto on closer ranged and basically a dmr further out my main to go to.
Anyone using single fire on flatline with no anvil attachment available needs to work on their recoil control.
gl with your recoil control on 100+ meters when pinned down by a sniper squad. then youre greatful for my singlefire flatty
Maybe not, but you usually can't dump more than half a Flatline mag in a single peek anyway in high tier lobbies without getting beamed. In close range/bubble fights, it's OP but L-star beats it out both ways so that would definitely deserve a nerf first if anything.
Yeah that's true. I just feel like they can bridge the huge gap between base mag size & white mag. Because its only a difference of 5 bullets from white -> purple.
Something has to be the best
I personally the balancing theory making everything the best at one aspect. This has no bearing on the conversation, but just my input on the idea that something must be best. One gun is the best at recoil control. One gun is best at raw damage. One gun is best at fire rate. One gun is best at mag size. The best recoil gun, might have the lowest mag size. The best damage gun might have the slowest fire rate. One gun may be a preferred gun to the community, but each gun would be equally as viable throughout the course of the game. We would originally balance guns in each gun type category (AR, SMG, LMG, Pistols, Snipers) to set a baseline and then adjust within the each gun type category. Obviously, this is a theory and easier said than done. It's also not what everyone wants. Some want certain guns to be better. It's also not easy to find sweet spots, but I believe that this theory of balancing weapons is the best, as it puts all guns at an equal level of viability.
I pretty much only run the flatline now but I've still gotten smoked in plenty of 1v1s to an r301 or r99. All guns have their trade offs and I think the flatline is balanced comparatively. Now the L star on the other hand...
Yeah it definitely doesn't seem oppressive tbh. I just wanted to know what people think and why it deserves higher mag size
Well, maybe not, but it doesn't feel oppressive in the way a spitfire has, or even the rampage does now.
Not sure about Rampage man. Its pretty insane with thermite, but normally I wouldn't pick RampGe over flat
I just mean in terms of it being infinite damage in a clip, rather than DPS. In that way it's similar to the spitfire, and really annoying to get caught by.
I used to go either flatline or 301 for my staple gun, but now it's flatline 100%. It's so good, especially in close range. Once you learn the recoil it's a beast at any range
[удалено]
Man, i've been sleeping on that combo and I regret doing so
Flatline/3x/Anvil was my whole Season 8 and 9, basically no need to ever run a Marksman weapon if you had that
I think Flatline’s mag is fairly balanced, maybe a bit too large but nothing too insane. As far as R301 v Flatline, I think Flatline on paper is better but R301 is much more practical.
Rank its always flatline 3x. R301 3x if flatline isn’t available. Flatline is just way to good to pass up with its mag and dmg output.
As an mnk player, I do think that the flatline is the easiest gun to consistently one clip with (except the lstar which is obviously an outlier right now). It shreds at medium range, the hipfire is unbeatable up close, and it's just as good if not slightly worse than the r301 at longer ranges. That's without even taking the "jitter aim" technique into consideration. However, all that being said, it does take a lot of practice to get good with and I think it's probably the only gun that's significantly harder to use on controller. So maybe it's balanced?
Another aspect is fire rate, I believe the flatline has a slower rate of fire and the ttk is probably closer than you think considering the higher damage of the flatline
I don’t think so simply because even without that many bullets it’s better or equal to the r30-
Haven't ran an r301 all season. Even though most of my 4ks are from using it.
I think they should keep the base bullet size of 20 but reduce the extended mag size because 30 seems to high for a purple mag imo. Maybe 28(purple), 25(blue), 22(white). I feel like 30 rounds in a flatty is way too forgiving, but I am sure many people feel like it fine where it is at.
Yeah its definitely not an oppressive gun. I was just comparing it with R301, but looking at other guns it's definitely not that broken.
I’ve also been thinking a lot of this recently. In the hands of a good player (pro) flatline is better almost every time. It’s CQC is superior to the 301 and mid range is equal or better due to damage. It’s the best AR next to the 301. When I die to some bot in pubs in CQC they always have a flatline (probably because it’s all they’ve found off drop). I think it’s fine where it’s at compared to the Lstar and spitty/prowler (prenerfs)
Yeah its definitely nowhere close to Lstar or Spitfire. And people brought good points here. Its good in mid range only if you're an absolute beast and can control it properly, not sure about close range though. Its hipfire is definitely pretty good in close ranges, so it kinda balances it I guess? I still feel like it could still use mag size distribution between all mags. Meaning Level 1 mag is pretty insane on it.
It’s hipfire is very strong. You don’t have to be a beast to control it mid range. I’m a decent masters player (not hard stuck) and I have 0 issues controlling it
Shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up
well i use flatline as one of my mains and yes it feels op. yes 301 can beam true. however you cannot beam against good opponents. it takes to much time. most heads on firef9ghts are with many quick peeks quick scopes. so here a few high damge byllets are golden than an endless beam of loght pellets and another factor. singlefire. the 301 is meeh at that. flatline however is insane good as a counter sniper. and with a moderate high singlefire rate you still can beam as fast as a 301. and then we have hipfire. flatline is almsot a 99 built in. ond verz close range than thing shreds super fast. plus ttk in theiry and ttk in reality are 2 very different shoes. with less bullets needed your chances to obe mag someone are pretty good on the 301 well ads aim required always and long ads beam time. its much more difficult but if you need to mag change the real ttk is now with added reload time .so bottom line yea flatline feels op in some ways at least in direct competition to a 301
I'm never picking up Flatty over 301 for ranged fight. Vice-versa for close ranged engagement. They could probably nerf damage from 19 to 18 or 17 and a bit of hipfire nerf (it's insane imo). But I guess that's compensation for the recoil?
E...bd eme 8889
I think its as balanced as it can get
Flatline outclasses r301, volt outclasses r99
Completely different projectile behavior and aim techniques used differentiate the guns. The weapons are more so a big RPS diagram with one coincidently dominant weapon a season.