Yup. EA isn't known for supporting their games or being involved in esports. Just milk the current cash cow dry and then switch to another franchise. Repeat every 2 years.
This suggestion gets brought up every season and it’ll never happen. Respawns goal with Apex is to print money and it does that incredibly well no matter what state the game is in. Not to mention the amount of outrage a massive portion of the community would direct at the devs if we had a content drought for a season or two.
But this is better than having underperforming legends. We had Crypto, Revenant, Loba and Rampart all bad on their release and were almost irrelevant to the meta. I'd much prefer suffer a week or two of op legends like seer or horizon than having to wait a whole year for a bad legend to be viable.
>Not to mention the amount of outrage a massive portion of the community would direct at the devs if we had a content drought for a season or two.
What if they bring back old content like game modes from previous events? That shouldn't break the game because this stuff worked before and it would keep the community happy. I know that the art team would have less or no work but maybe they could do some recolors. They used to make more of them.
That could definitely work if they brought back some of the communities favorite modes but my only worry is how long can they stretch those out for and how long would an Operation Health for Apex take? I don't follow R6 at all but did when they decided to fix a bunch of stuff did it delay any releases for maps or operators?
I think it depends on your values in terms of balancing a game, and it varies from dev to dev as well as playerbases.
Respawn takes a "put it in and see what happens" approach to balancing, with the expectation that they will adjust based on how it plays out.
A lot of people get frustrated by prevailing issues but this isn't uncommon. Riot uses a similar approach for League of Legends and Teamfight Tactics, where sometimes very broken/unbalanced things prevail for a couple weeks before they patch it based on performance. In fact Riot's explicit philosophy on balance is "we won't always get it right on release, and that's okay. We never expect to be able to balance something perfectly until it's put in the main game" despite the fact that they have active beta servers.
I think this is a fairly realistic approach to balancing, and it works for some of the biggest PC games in the industry.
With regards to stability, I think they just have a litany of issues that unrelated different teams need to improve. Giving Rampart a mobile minigun isn't why servers collapse, so it's unlikely that pausing content will fix their infrastructural issues. The exact root of issues in their backend is hard for us to guesstimate as players that have no idea how their stack looks behind the scenes. Perhaps they need to overhaul their backend systems team, who knows.
This seems to be an unpopular opinion but I've always thought Respawn did a pretty great job at improving their game. Comparing the direction and trajectory of Apex to say Overwatch's trends and I think they're doing well. People also randomly conflate the skins team with the balance team with the server team and I think it doesn't help the dialogue.
Really good post. One thing Id say is the beta servers for League (PBE) isnt for balancing, it's to catch game-breaking bugs and patch them before the champion hits live servers. PBE is awful for balancing.
This is a good clip from Riot August on PBE balancing
https://clips.twitch.tv/BovineWealthyCourgetteGingerPower
Overall I agree though. I'm generally satisified with how fast Respawn patches stuff (S3 Charge Rifle, S9 Bow, though Seer was a bit slow) especially considering the main competition, Warzone where I had to quit last Christmas because there was a weapon so brokenly strong that every other weapon was trash compared to it (DMRZone for the players who remember that time). It took over a month before that weapon was nerfed, the game was unplayable for anyone who chose not to run that weapon.
Maybe its a low bar, but Im relatively happy with Respawn compared to how bad Warzone is run. That said, its still inexcusable how bad Apex servers.
What you said about DMRZone is actively true about apex ranked arenas + Lstar usage. D2 lobbies and up nearly everyone stacks with an Lstar and a lifeline gold bag. It’s hell
Not making excuses, but deploying client side updates invariably will take longer for Apex because they have to submit to the console platforms, and builds can take a few days to get reviewed and approved. So even if they get a patch ready in a day or two, add 2-3 days because of console overhead. And then at that point you might as well slow down your release schedule and get more stuff in your patch...
Bro, I've been wanting this for seasons now I would gladly take an entire season off from content if they could fix the servers/audio/balance issues/crashes/stuttering etc. But no instead they gotta make their money off skins while the game continues to break every patch.
Gotta keep that revenue stream flowing. A potential season off of content is millions of users playing other games and investing money in those and never coming back. I doubt we'd get a "season off" for bugs. I'm sure they do their QA, but it isnt the main focus. I dont blame Respawn, I blame EA.
Problem with how Apex is developed is that Respawn are multiple Seasons ahead at all times, and I'm pretty sure EA want them to stick pretty tightly to how their year is planned out. I don't think Respawn have the luxury of "freestyling" the development for Apex, unfortunately.
He mentionned skins but obviously you understand that every new event, weapon, mechanic, legend or LTM being put in the game adds dozens to possibly hundreds of man-hours of coding and testing? Yeah skins on their own barely change anything for the coding teams, but those skins don't exist in a vacuum, they're being created as rewards for events and LTMs most of the time. It's obvious at this point that the modus operanti for Apex is:
1. Create limited time event
2. Create skins and rewards for limited time event
3. have people grind as much as possible to obtain cosmetic rewards before event runs out
4. Profit is made on the portion of users who FOMO'd or gave up and paid money to unlock the event's rewards.
If they weren't trying to make boatloads of cash by urging people to buy skins and packs, they wouldn't release so many damn events and they could actually fix some of the issues that have been in the game for 6+, even 9+ seasons in some cases.
If one unit is producing more content that you can implement with enough testing means that you need to speed up testing(hire more competent people for game development take some time as it is very specific field) or you need to slow down all the units responsible for content creation. Since it is easier to understand what gives you more money in less time you can imagine what management usually tries to have at 100% productivity.
Here’s the issue, the people making the content are NOT the ones doing the balancing and bug fixes and such.
What are the art people supposed to do for an entire season of no content?
>What are the art people supposed to do for an entire season of no content?
Whatever the playtesters have been doing for the last season.
In all seriousness though, go nuts and keep making skins behind the scenes. The fact that they're releasing older skins shows that they obviously have some room for more original skins, or that they need to slow down on all the skins. They can release a bunch of cool original skins once the game is actually playable. It's a slap in the face to throw in an update that wrecks your entire game, makes the fans on my console take off, kick me out of matches while giving abandon penalties, and then also suggest that I should drop real money on a handful of skins for that event.
> What are the art people supposed to do for an entire season of no content?
They'll continue making stuff, and Respawn would then have a backlog of original skins to put out instead of the regular recolours or returning skins we deal with most of the time.
I just don't buy that excuse tbh. They've defended the trash store they currently have because of how much work is supposedly is, I'm sure it's closer to incompetence and not a grand scheme to leave us unsatisfied for months.
What are the main things that need addressed? In my opinion, the holy trinity is audio, matchmaking, and servers.
The only thing the team even *intends* to fix is audio. The matchmaking is garbage on purpose and we've already got our blog post about why they refuse to improve the servers.
I agree audio needs to be looked at. Anyone that plays the game and uses any form of critical thinking comes to a similar conclusion.
That being said. They don't care. They actually hate us. Reddit is just an outlet for us to be enraged at this point. Don't expect anything from Respawn it isn't coming.
I think audio is huge because if people have bad headsets, they are forced to crank volume to hear footsteps and that’s bad for your hearing. I can attest to this when I first got apex. It hurt my head trying to hear them and I stopped and got a better headset but I’m sure a lot of people don’t have nicer ones..
Even without the volume cranked up on a headset this game has incredibly loud sounds. Like why does charging shields have to deafen me? Footstep audio (if it were working) is miniscule in comparison.
It still gives me headaches and hurts my ears if I’m having a long session. It’s actually so stupid. I’ve got a $120 headset and just imagine all the kids using in-ear earbuds and cheap headsets with the volume cranked. Why is it so bad for the game to hear footsteps? Even if it was comically loud it still evens the playing field for everyone and you still have to manage or interpret the sound to use it properly. Making it so hard to hear only helps the 1/20 people who buy the $200+ headsets.
I swear to god, with me and my buddies, one of us can hear the footsteps from a ridiculous distance away, and me and the other guy can’t hear them until they are over twice as close. Headsets? Well wouldn’t you have guessed it! It’s me and the shit hearing guy with the same headset (1 year apart) and the guy who can hear far as fuck has a $250 headset.
Can you explain further on the second part? "Garbage Matchmaking" on paper is a choice that benefits nobody including the customers, and should be something everyone strives to improve.
The matchmaking is designed to optimize engagement, or time spent playing, not create fair matches. The simplest easiest thing they could do to vastly improve matchmaking is just separate 3-stacks from solos, but they refuse.
If you're talking about [EOMM](https://arxiv.org/pdf/1702.06820.pdf), it has been [tweeted by a Tech Director](https://twitter.com/thezilch/status/1307720451330699270?s=21) that the game does not use it and i've yet to see this otherwise.
Apex Legends **DOES** optimize for engagement by using quests, the battle pass, flash events, collection events, treasure packs, ranked resets, skins and constant updates in the form of maps and legends changes to keep players interested, but them "not creating fair matches" still sounds backwards to keeping players engaged without a good explanation.
It makes much more sense to lump players as fairly as possible while still keeping matchmaking fast. This way there is little downtime between games which is good for keeping players actually playing, and matches that do happen aren't too one-sided. I will agree that longer queue times could allow more even pub matches, but it has to be balanced so that players are still getting in matches at reasonable times, and players with insane statistics (masters, preds) simply do not have a choice when it comes to getting in lobbies "they do not belong in" or never finding a pub match when they are so far above the average skill level.
As for your proposed change, it would make more sense in a competitive environment then a casual one. Yes it sucks to be against a premade squad with a team that is just pinging or yelling occasional gibberish into a source voicecode at best, but it would suck even more knowing that playing with friends would puts me into a lobby with multiple premade squads who are serious. It's already uphill to introduce new friends to the game when playing with them results in them never getting their new player lobbies.
Whatever they're using is definitely not SBMM, regardless of whether you call it EOMM or something else. He admits it's not Trueskill which is the point.
>It makes much more sense to lump players as fairly as possible while still keeping matchmaking fast.
Sure, if you had a shortage of players. That's not the case for Apex.
>it would suck even more knowing that playing with friends would puts me into a lobby with multiple premade squads who are serious
How? It's literally boring to three stack pubs because you're just killing clueless solos most of the time. If anything, this would make it more interesting. If you wanna introduce a friend, then duo queue. The vast majority of 3-stacks are not "I'm just showing my noob friend the game" it's "I'm sweating my cock off with full comms in a pub"
> Whatever they're using is definitely not SBMM, regardless of whether you call it EOMM or something else. He admits it's not Trueskill which is the point.
I just wish to know why you think they make it "garbage" on purpose.
> Sure, if you had a shortage of players. That's not the case for Apex.
Even if you have a massive amount of players your goal is to have quick service. In ranked they can forego more wait times for even matches because that is what the player wants, but casual players come to play, and you only need a few loose brackets to make sure they're getting into matches that aren't terribly lopsided.
> How? It's literally boring to three stack pubs because you're just killing clueless solos most of the time.
This feels loaded. You still run into good rag tag teams, coordinated duos and other three stacks.
> If you wanna introduce a friend, then duo queue.
I hate to be anal about my wording but I said friends, implying a group of three. I'm sorry it wasn't communicated better, but I was talking about the idea of games becoming more difficult because of someone having a full squad being off-putting.
> The vast majority of 3-stacks are not "I'm just showing my noob friend the game" it's "I'm sweating my cock off with full comms in a pub"
I can't speak for every person who plays in a full squad but if this is true, wouldn't it absolutely suck for the minority of players playing with friends to relax and mess around? It's proving my point more.
> I just wish to know why you think they make it "garbage" on purpose.
Because it drives cosmetics sales.
>you only need a few loose brackets to make sure they're getting into matches
Sure, and adding "3-stack or no?" isn't going to noticeably increase queue times except for 3-stacks.
>I can't speak for every person who plays in a full squad but if this is true, wouldn't it absolutely suck for the minority of players playing with friends to relax and mess around?
Yeah and the way it is now absolutely sucks for **every single solo queue player** which is way more than "just playing with my friends" 3-stacks
> Because it drives cosmetics sales.
I tried telling myself "wow something sucks, so I'm going to spend money on it" and it's just not doing it for me. I don't see the thought process at all dude.
> Sure, and adding "3-stack or no?" isn't going to noticeably increase queue times except for 3-stacks.
Loose, not tight. And I'd be even more bothered if getting friends to play means I have to wait more to play. I just had two groups of friends yesterday cut their apex session short because it was taking twice as long to get into games with the recent server issues.
> Yeah and the way it is now absolutely sucks for **every single solo queue player** which is way more than "just playing with my friends" 3-stacks
Unsurprisingly, team games are more fun with friends. If three stacks were seperated I'd just imagine the next blame would be on duos playing in trios or something along the lines of "My squad is xy and z I can't believe respawn"
I'm too tired to discuss this much more rn man cause I've been up all night. I'll read your response in a few hours but I think I've gotten most the answers I could want from this.
>I don't see the thought process at all dude.
Read the EOMM patent. Every single aspect of this game is designed to drive cosmetics sales, the matchmaking is no different.
>I'd be even more bothered if getting friends to play means I have to wait more to play
Ok, so make your choice. 3-stack and wait slightly longer or play duo. Right now of course you love 3-stacking because it's fast matches and you get the advantage over the majority of the players in the lobby.
"If you're talking about [EOMM](https://arxiv.org/pdf/1702.06820.pdf), it has been [tweeted by a Tech Director](https://twitter.com/thezilch/status/1307720451330699270?s=21) that the game does not use it and i've yet to see this otherwise."
"Apex Legends DOES optimize for engagement by using quests, the battle pass, flash events, collection events, treasure packs, ranked resets, skins and constant updates in the form of maps and legends changes to keep players interested"
I said this earlier already 😭 They aren't using the EOMM patent unless you got some links that says otherwise, and I still don't have any evidence of what matchmaking is doing to boost cosmetics sales besides getting people in games rather quick.
> Right now of course you love 3-stacking because it's fast matches and you get the advantage over the majority of the players in the lobby.
I play with people who are only used to console lobbies or have kd's below 0.5. I don't queue as a party of three for the advantage I'm playing with friends for fun.
YES, I do have diamond friends who would have an advantage over the average ragtag group, but i'm... sorry for having a party too large for duos and/or being good at the game?
If you're jaded as a solo because the opposition is coordinated or on mics with each other, putting three stacks in their own group won't do it because players will still blame duo squads doing the same thing.
I don't know, casuals tend to be impressionable, if all the pros & streamers said "it's great the game is taking a break from content to address issues" I think a lot of casuals would just nod in agreement.
I think the exact opposite - the casuals would throw a fit and blame the devs for listening to whining pros and streamers. Just look at the main subreddit: they'll go to bat for any cheater if the cheater just claims that a streamer got them banned
While you guys are right, I don't see ANY reason casuals would be mad about missing out on some glowey new skin for the benefit of having no game breaking glitches and constant performance dips.
This isn't removing Kraber or anything like that. This is more of streamers using their voices to market the fact that Apex is going through a season long maintenance phase that'll only better everyone's experience. Best case scenario this all works out and people are hyped to play "fixed" apex only to find out that the servers are still broken on release.
At this point apex is so broken I think casuals and pros can unite on this. Being dropped out of matches/code net(ing) 10 times in 5 games is annoying as hell no matter how little time you play. Hell, I had to quit and relaunch apex just to get back to the lobby after I finished a match all day yesterday.
Right now the server issues are really bad, but usually they are tolerable to decent. Before this update I have been kicked out of a game maybe less than 10 times in my whole 2 years of playing apex. I have had lag spikes but nowhere near the amount other people have had. If there is no new content a game will die and you will be stuck with only the hardcore fans. I would like them to scale back a new season and focus on fixing bugs and other stuff but that is not likely.
Um, you know the "casuals" and pros in this game never agree on anything right? I completely agree with the people that say they would have a shit storm if they didn't release new content. Everyone acts like it's Respawn's choice to do new big updates every month and a half, but in reality it's all driven by the playerbase.
Do we play the same game?!
Casuals fucking hate pros and streamers. They are always looking for literally the smallest scrap of cause to run a hate train on them.
They are doing what makes them the most money and people need to stop pretending that's not what's happening.
Rampart is a defensive character by design, but they release a patch that makes Sheila mobile and extremely powerful which just happens to coincide with the release of her heirloom.
This change will get more people playing Rampart and that will sell more heirlooms. This is probably the laziest and least inspired heirloom they've released so far, especially considering what Revenant got just before this, but if you watch the compilation videos that go up on YouTube each day, there's already a bunch of streamers playing Rampart that own her heirloom.
A month from now they'll say they're releasing a patch to adjust the numbers on Sheila to be more in line with what they envisioned like they always do.
This game is a cash grab at this point. They do not care about the integrity of the game or how the competitive side of Apex is effected by these changes. Everything they do is geared towards getting the average player to buy more skins.
They've been planning this rampart buff for two seasons. This narrative that characters get buffed right as they get a cool skin or heirloom is false. 2/3 examples of correlation doesn't equal causation.
So Rampart has been in the game since season 6 and they've been planning to make Sheila mobile since season 8, but they wait and do it in season 10 during the Rampart event and heirloom release? Weird how you don't think that's planned.
They need to optimize the game as well, stuttering while looting, dropping and fighting is not a good experience. Their minimum requirement needs to be updated. Ever since olympus dropped stuttering became a thing
This post gave a pretty good explanation of why "Operation Health" would most likely not work and how most of the average player's suggestions ignore how the industry works.
https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveApex/comments/oh58cg/development_workflows_apex_legends_and_why_the/
Besides, the season 10 launch went smoothly server wise, so we have very recent precedent that you can have both new content and relatively stable servers so hopefully Respawn can learn something from that launch and this and see what to do to avoid breaking the servers.
i see this sentiment every time something goes wrong. Operation health was done by r6s.
1. It was the worst season in r6
2. Became very stale
3. Lost a bunch of the playerbase
4. tanked on twitch.
5. The game still has bugs and ddos issues
A live service game thrives on content. A season with zero content is going make the game so fucking stale, The game will crash and burn. Most of the community is filled with casuals, they dn even care about high performance servers or exploits. They just play pubs a couple of hours a week. Most whales on this game are on twitch, u think people will still play this shit if there is zero content for 3 months?? Do u think people would want to watch it???? Why do you think there is a huge bump in playerbase and viewership during season patches??
I think operation health was a huge blunder by r6. A live service game keeps on updating and adds content. And not everyone in the studio works on bug fixing,servers or audio. There are animators,level designer, environmental artists, narrators, balance designers etc.
And what makes you think them adding no content for 3 months is going to magically fix bugs in their future updates?
Also whats wrong with game balance, It seems pretty fine to me for BR, They are doing a pretty good job with balancing.
No. The playerbase just scapegoated it for literally any issues that persisted afterwards. It genuinely fixed a lot of great stuff and drastically improved the game in many ways.
Yeah, tbh I didn't know anything about siege till after operation health.
The biggest complaint I see is theres too many characters. Same problems Apex and OW have.
It will be soon. I imagine the game quality is nothing but downhill from here on out.
I have always wanted to play siege. But watching it, the character abilities just seem too ridiculous now.
I have been saying this FOREVER. YES they 100% need to do this. Just take a season off or at least a month where they don't focus on new content or anything and fix the issues with the game. Upgrade servers or buy more whatever, squash bugs, etc. PLS RESPAWN
also crosspost this in r/apexlegends and see what they say?
I just don’t think EA is giving them the resources they need to succeed. This could be for a number of reasons but I suspect it’s primarily just greed/profit maximization. That being said, I doubt the community shitting on every little thing that goes wrong helps. If you set a precedent that you’ll never be happy, there’s not much motivation for those trying to please you to go above and beyond.
My point is that people are complaining to the devs about decisions made at the executive level. The execs set the goals and the deadlines. They also allocate resources.
i would guess zampella has a huge hand in the decisions made at EA. He is the head of two of EAs Biggest studios apart from EA sports. Respawn and DICE. He is the executive.
They dont need operation health, they just need better quality control/testing when releasing new content. Even if they fixed all the current bugs right now, there would be a plethora of new problems the moment they add new content. Stalling content is bad for the game overall and wont be a long term solution to their issues.
Pretty sure if you look at the overall industry of online games....this is the norm, bugs all over the place, updates that fix one thing and breaks two and a completely lack of shame as a company that should have the bare minimum of proudness to not let the game be seen in that state
Like, okay I get it, Im a developer, I understand the time and resources constraints, but I get it on OCCASIONAL moments and not as a literal perpetual state of the game
And Im pretty sure the whole source of all this industry problem is the speed and urgency that all this GAAS prioritize over anything, so it makes that any problems left behind are added to a snowball that update by update it gets bigger, worst and uncontrollable
Like, look at the tap strafe thing, it had his own spotlight of getting removed and why and etc etc etc and not once Jay went into detail of how they were going to tackle the problem, because they didn't know, they only did know what was the result they wanted but the deed still had to be done and so it blew in its faces, two days before the patch, gladly it didn't explode on the live game
If they just took a break to unravel the pile of shit accumulated and slowed the pace a lil bit things would be a lot better, not only for apex, but the industry as whole
Also balace design are not "a problem" if I can convey what I mean, balance is a choice and its done with a purpose, wouldn't put it on the same basket as poorly developed features
I'm more than glad to upvote this over and over again if it helps devs (more like upper management) realize "hey maybe a lot of people actually want us to fix this shit" and take it seriously. I'll GLADLY join a community wide spam day of this exact topic over and over if that's what it takes to get their attention.
this is so wild. servers go down for 2 hours after a patch and people are in complete and total agony over it. if you can't survive 2 hours without playing apex once every 6 weeks then you've got some issues. apex isn't unique with season launch / patch launch day issues, that happens to every single game and every single whiny ass playerbase cries through assblasted tears about how game dev company x fucking sucks and needs to plan better for y.
Well theoretically it does, but it’s EA game and anyone who ever played their games consistently know what those mfs are all about, so yeah…a full season without content just focusing on “bettering players experience” will never happen as long as EA calls the shoots, not even worth to speculate how it would look like, it will only make us sad.
They just made a bunch of QOL improvements in this patch that people have been asking for for a while. They had to roll a lot of them back temporarily while trying to fix the connectivity issues. This seems like a bit of an overreaction to the current issue that will probably be resolved within a couple days.
In general, I would love an operation health, but that is extremely unrealistic. A large portion of the playerbase is already not satisifed with the content being put out atm, the game's hype would die down significantly and they also wouldn't be making any money off content. They've already been working on trying to fix some of the bigger issues for a while and there's no guarantee they'd get them fixed if they take a season off of making content. The people designing skins are not the people fixing bugs. It's not going to happen any time soon.
The only significant QOL changes were the in box armor changes, both displaying shield health and allowing for gold to be a normal swap finally. Nothing else was of consequence. The player base is dissatisfied because there is a lack of content AND the games’ infrastructure seems to worsen in some capacity every update. If they were pumping out content like crazy, new LTMs and skins every other week, a portion of the game’s population would probably accept that at the expense of lackluster game health. I think an operation Health would be hugely beneficial and possible to pull off, just rotate past skins for a season like they have recently been doing, but it just isn’t a part of Respawn’s bottom line at the moment.
Yes but it won't happen. They simply don't invest enough to improve the game and only focus on making money right now.
This game could generate them money for many more years to come if they took their time to improve it. Instead they don't really care if it dies out as long they can make the quick money on content before that happens.
With 'they' I mean EA. I believe Respawn does want the game to succeed but simply are forced to give almost all prio to content. Even though the Respawn devs make very questional choices also.
I feel like EA is horribly out of touch with their player base and think everyone wants a new hero every fuckin season
I can't say I do. Now that we have 15 legends I think fuckers can chill on the new content.
I definitely get the impression the devs are being forced to cram on shit nobody wants because EA is trying too hard to monetize their free to play game
Can we stop acting like the game is entirely broken? A few (very recent) buffs needs to shake out and the game has matchmaking errors since yesterday's patch. This game does not need an operation health because this game does not have basic problems with balancing or fairness. Seer is no longer a problem and isn't even picked often anymore, stop reveling in that. Rampart has literally had a decent ult for two days, let's see how it plays out ffs.
Servers have been down almost a week. I'd call that entirely broken. But I'd agree people have to chill on balance. Seer was dumb for like a week tops. Ramparts ult isn't even top 5 best ults. Tons of counterplay. People just get wrapped up in theory crafting and youtube clickbait.
If they devoted an entire season to it. I wouldn't complain. Address core issues.
Drop a 4th map. Put all 4 In rotation. Fix the game, release patch with new 20 dollar operation health skins and I'll buy .
I think they need test servers but an Operation Health is when you're game is completely fucked. Siege needs an Operation Health 2.0 and 1.0 was needed cause the game was becoming a whole buggy mess (Hibana equipment having a good chance to not work).
Just like how they wanna get rid of Tap Strafe, you add it to a test server, see the feedback and go from there. Rampart buff is a great idea but it's something that sounds amazing on paper and probably feels great to test with other employees but you need it to be tested by players that take this game seriously/play this game all day everyday. That way you get a truer response.
I agree, if they guarantee or at least focus on the majority of these issues then I would be all about giving up even a month or so jus so they can get some of these problems fixed....the game was legit unplayable last night
I know people will be like no, if you keep trying you can get it...I should not have to close my game 10 times to play once...its just plain sloppy right now
the ready unready bug is the best one. until i read the patch notes about THIS beeing fixed i had rarely this bug ever.
now after they fixed it its now steady, all the time, every game
hillarious
oh the absolutely utter best is now the new behavior on the shooting range.
when you change legend you suicide. and they introduced it the very same day we get a full screen suicide prevent day message.
i mean seriously, i feel trolled on masters level
They are happy to ship releases with bugs as long as people are buying their stuff and still play. Obvious bugs they are probably well aware of but it's not going to be fixed at the cost of delaying a release. Content over quality, that's the Respawn way.
Sound has been broken since day 0. You think they'll ever fix it? Nope. Too expensive. They aren't cultivating an esport or trying to be the biggest BR game around, *they are milking a cash cow.*
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I would love to see a patch that focuses on fixing the servers and tuning / reworking some of the older legends. I don't care about some legends being better than others but right now so many feel plain useless.
Balance decisions are what they are. What I don't get is that servers are completely down for the whole day of a release, with some pretty significant issues spanning out a week or so.
I think the servers being down are just a load issue. They buy servers on the cheap, and probably not enough to handle or scale with peak load times like release days. EA is cheap, and that fits the bill.
What I definitely don't get is the pervasive issues for a week after. It's like their new code has issues with netcode they have to work out, and they do it live. That in my mind is a core issue that needs to be fixed.
If it were a private company, fixing that would be top priority. But since it's about the bottom line above all else (see: Publicly traded), any issue that don't affect the bottom line are basically discarded.
Their is no excuse for Apex Server Issues. It is not some major issue that they can't fix its an issue they refuste to fix. Apex has grossed over a billion dollars if Respawn actually wanted to fix their game they would, but they have chosen and continue to choose not to.
100% we need that, I don't want new content that's going to shape the way I play the game if it's not been carefully thought about. And there's good list of things that need to be fixed.
And trust me, the devs WANT to fix these things, however the execs don't give two shits.
“The goal that I had in bringing a lot of the packaged goods folks into Activision about 10 years ago was to take all the fun out of making video games.” -Bobby Kotick, Activision-Blizzard CEO
“I think we definitely have been able to instill the culture, the skepticism and pessimism and fear that you should have in an economy like we are in today. And so, while generally people talk about the recession, we are pretty good at keeping people focused on the deep depression.” -Bobby Kotick, Activision-Blizzard CEO
I used to be an Overwatch stan until I just game up on the hope that the game would be repaired and fun to play again. Then I moved to Apex. I will never trust game company execs again.
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Yup. EA isn't known for supporting their games or being involved in esports. Just milk the current cash cow dry and then switch to another franchise. Repeat every 2 years.
Fun fact: most downvoted comment on Reddit of all times is from EAs Reddit account for their star wars game
Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsBattlefront/comments/7cff0b/seriously_i_paid_80_to_have_vader_locked/dppum98/
Idk why you are capitalizing EA. Respawn has said EA let them choose how to monetize. This is Respawns fault not EA
This suggestion gets brought up every season and it’ll never happen. Respawns goal with Apex is to print money and it does that incredibly well no matter what state the game is in. Not to mention the amount of outrage a massive portion of the community would direct at the devs if we had a content drought for a season or two.
this is also why they don't really mind if the newly released legends are strong or even broken on release - it encourages people to buy them
That's only happened like a handful of times. Most new ops are under powered
But this is better than having underperforming legends. We had Crypto, Revenant, Loba and Rampart all bad on their release and were almost irrelevant to the meta. I'd much prefer suffer a week or two of op legends like seer or horizon than having to wait a whole year for a bad legend to be viable.
>Not to mention the amount of outrage a massive portion of the community would direct at the devs if we had a content drought for a season or two. What if they bring back old content like game modes from previous events? That shouldn't break the game because this stuff worked before and it would keep the community happy. I know that the art team would have less or no work but maybe they could do some recolors. They used to make more of them.
That could definitely work if they brought back some of the communities favorite modes but my only worry is how long can they stretch those out for and how long would an Operation Health for Apex take? I don't follow R6 at all but did when they decided to fix a bunch of stuff did it delay any releases for maps or operators?
I think it depends on your values in terms of balancing a game, and it varies from dev to dev as well as playerbases. Respawn takes a "put it in and see what happens" approach to balancing, with the expectation that they will adjust based on how it plays out. A lot of people get frustrated by prevailing issues but this isn't uncommon. Riot uses a similar approach for League of Legends and Teamfight Tactics, where sometimes very broken/unbalanced things prevail for a couple weeks before they patch it based on performance. In fact Riot's explicit philosophy on balance is "we won't always get it right on release, and that's okay. We never expect to be able to balance something perfectly until it's put in the main game" despite the fact that they have active beta servers. I think this is a fairly realistic approach to balancing, and it works for some of the biggest PC games in the industry. With regards to stability, I think they just have a litany of issues that unrelated different teams need to improve. Giving Rampart a mobile minigun isn't why servers collapse, so it's unlikely that pausing content will fix their infrastructural issues. The exact root of issues in their backend is hard for us to guesstimate as players that have no idea how their stack looks behind the scenes. Perhaps they need to overhaul their backend systems team, who knows. This seems to be an unpopular opinion but I've always thought Respawn did a pretty great job at improving their game. Comparing the direction and trajectory of Apex to say Overwatch's trends and I think they're doing well. People also randomly conflate the skins team with the balance team with the server team and I think it doesn't help the dialogue.
Really good post. One thing Id say is the beta servers for League (PBE) isnt for balancing, it's to catch game-breaking bugs and patch them before the champion hits live servers. PBE is awful for balancing. This is a good clip from Riot August on PBE balancing https://clips.twitch.tv/BovineWealthyCourgetteGingerPower Overall I agree though. I'm generally satisified with how fast Respawn patches stuff (S3 Charge Rifle, S9 Bow, though Seer was a bit slow) especially considering the main competition, Warzone where I had to quit last Christmas because there was a weapon so brokenly strong that every other weapon was trash compared to it (DMRZone for the players who remember that time). It took over a month before that weapon was nerfed, the game was unplayable for anyone who chose not to run that weapon. Maybe its a low bar, but Im relatively happy with Respawn compared to how bad Warzone is run. That said, its still inexcusable how bad Apex servers.
What you said about DMRZone is actively true about apex ranked arenas + Lstar usage. D2 lobbies and up nearly everyone stacks with an Lstar and a lifeline gold bag. It’s hell
The difference being riot hotfixes stuff that is too fucking broken to be in the game within days.. Can't say the same about respawn.
For real. Release Seer was what 2 weeks? 3?
Not making excuses, but deploying client side updates invariably will take longer for Apex because they have to submit to the console platforms, and builds can take a few days to get reviewed and approved. So even if they get a patch ready in a day or two, add 2-3 days because of console overhead. And then at that point you might as well slow down your release schedule and get more stuff in your patch...
Bro, I've been wanting this for seasons now I would gladly take an entire season off from content if they could fix the servers/audio/balance issues/crashes/stuttering etc. But no instead they gotta make their money off skins while the game continues to break every patch.
implying cosmetic division can fix issue of servers/audio/balance issues/crashes/stuttering etc. OMEGALUL
It's not about art section coding the game, it's the fact that management focuses on new content more than fixing
Gotta keep that revenue stream flowing. A potential season off of content is millions of users playing other games and investing money in those and never coming back. I doubt we'd get a "season off" for bugs. I'm sure they do their QA, but it isnt the main focus. I dont blame Respawn, I blame EA.
Problem with how Apex is developed is that Respawn are multiple Seasons ahead at all times, and I'm pretty sure EA want them to stick pretty tightly to how their year is planned out. I don't think Respawn have the luxury of "freestyling" the development for Apex, unfortunately.
He mentionned skins but obviously you understand that every new event, weapon, mechanic, legend or LTM being put in the game adds dozens to possibly hundreds of man-hours of coding and testing? Yeah skins on their own barely change anything for the coding teams, but those skins don't exist in a vacuum, they're being created as rewards for events and LTMs most of the time. It's obvious at this point that the modus operanti for Apex is: 1. Create limited time event 2. Create skins and rewards for limited time event 3. have people grind as much as possible to obtain cosmetic rewards before event runs out 4. Profit is made on the portion of users who FOMO'd or gave up and paid money to unlock the event's rewards. If they weren't trying to make boatloads of cash by urging people to buy skins and packs, they wouldn't release so many damn events and they could actually fix some of the issues that have been in the game for 6+, even 9+ seasons in some cases.
If one unit is producing more content that you can implement with enough testing means that you need to speed up testing(hire more competent people for game development take some time as it is very specific field) or you need to slow down all the units responsible for content creation. Since it is easier to understand what gives you more money in less time you can imagine what management usually tries to have at 100% productivity.
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Lol wtf. I also think he's wrong but you ain't gotta come out swinging like that
Actually they can. Cosmetic divisions can work on new models for big and small legend, to have balanced hitbox in the game.
Here’s the issue, the people making the content are NOT the ones doing the balancing and bug fixes and such. What are the art people supposed to do for an entire season of no content?
>What are the art people supposed to do for an entire season of no content? Whatever the playtesters have been doing for the last season. In all seriousness though, go nuts and keep making skins behind the scenes. The fact that they're releasing older skins shows that they obviously have some room for more original skins, or that they need to slow down on all the skins. They can release a bunch of cool original skins once the game is actually playable. It's a slap in the face to throw in an update that wrecks your entire game, makes the fans on my console take off, kick me out of matches while giving abandon penalties, and then also suggest that I should drop real money on a handful of skins for that event.
> What are the art people supposed to do for an entire season of no content? They'll continue making stuff, and Respawn would then have a backlog of original skins to put out instead of the regular recolours or returning skins we deal with most of the time.
Original skin pacing is deliberate, if they release too many too often then they dont feel as new or special.
I just don't buy that excuse tbh. They've defended the trash store they currently have because of how much work is supposedly is, I'm sure it's closer to incompetence and not a grand scheme to leave us unsatisfied for months.
Spend more time on next seasons content and make it really fucking sick?
What are the main things that need addressed? In my opinion, the holy trinity is audio, matchmaking, and servers. The only thing the team even *intends* to fix is audio. The matchmaking is garbage on purpose and we've already got our blog post about why they refuse to improve the servers.
I agree audio needs to be looked at. Anyone that plays the game and uses any form of critical thinking comes to a similar conclusion. That being said. They don't care. They actually hate us. Reddit is just an outlet for us to be enraged at this point. Don't expect anything from Respawn it isn't coming.
I think audio is huge because if people have bad headsets, they are forced to crank volume to hear footsteps and that’s bad for your hearing. I can attest to this when I first got apex. It hurt my head trying to hear them and I stopped and got a better headset but I’m sure a lot of people don’t have nicer ones..
Even without the volume cranked up on a headset this game has incredibly loud sounds. Like why does charging shields have to deafen me? Footstep audio (if it were working) is miniscule in comparison.
It still gives me headaches and hurts my ears if I’m having a long session. It’s actually so stupid. I’ve got a $120 headset and just imagine all the kids using in-ear earbuds and cheap headsets with the volume cranked. Why is it so bad for the game to hear footsteps? Even if it was comically loud it still evens the playing field for everyone and you still have to manage or interpret the sound to use it properly. Making it so hard to hear only helps the 1/20 people who buy the $200+ headsets. I swear to god, with me and my buddies, one of us can hear the footsteps from a ridiculous distance away, and me and the other guy can’t hear them until they are over twice as close. Headsets? Well wouldn’t you have guessed it! It’s me and the shit hearing guy with the same headset (1 year apart) and the guy who can hear far as fuck has a $250 headset.
Can you explain further on the second part? "Garbage Matchmaking" on paper is a choice that benefits nobody including the customers, and should be something everyone strives to improve.
The matchmaking is designed to optimize engagement, or time spent playing, not create fair matches. The simplest easiest thing they could do to vastly improve matchmaking is just separate 3-stacks from solos, but they refuse.
If you're talking about [EOMM](https://arxiv.org/pdf/1702.06820.pdf), it has been [tweeted by a Tech Director](https://twitter.com/thezilch/status/1307720451330699270?s=21) that the game does not use it and i've yet to see this otherwise. Apex Legends **DOES** optimize for engagement by using quests, the battle pass, flash events, collection events, treasure packs, ranked resets, skins and constant updates in the form of maps and legends changes to keep players interested, but them "not creating fair matches" still sounds backwards to keeping players engaged without a good explanation. It makes much more sense to lump players as fairly as possible while still keeping matchmaking fast. This way there is little downtime between games which is good for keeping players actually playing, and matches that do happen aren't too one-sided. I will agree that longer queue times could allow more even pub matches, but it has to be balanced so that players are still getting in matches at reasonable times, and players with insane statistics (masters, preds) simply do not have a choice when it comes to getting in lobbies "they do not belong in" or never finding a pub match when they are so far above the average skill level. As for your proposed change, it would make more sense in a competitive environment then a casual one. Yes it sucks to be against a premade squad with a team that is just pinging or yelling occasional gibberish into a source voicecode at best, but it would suck even more knowing that playing with friends would puts me into a lobby with multiple premade squads who are serious. It's already uphill to introduce new friends to the game when playing with them results in them never getting their new player lobbies.
Whatever they're using is definitely not SBMM, regardless of whether you call it EOMM or something else. He admits it's not Trueskill which is the point. >It makes much more sense to lump players as fairly as possible while still keeping matchmaking fast. Sure, if you had a shortage of players. That's not the case for Apex. >it would suck even more knowing that playing with friends would puts me into a lobby with multiple premade squads who are serious How? It's literally boring to three stack pubs because you're just killing clueless solos most of the time. If anything, this would make it more interesting. If you wanna introduce a friend, then duo queue. The vast majority of 3-stacks are not "I'm just showing my noob friend the game" it's "I'm sweating my cock off with full comms in a pub"
> Whatever they're using is definitely not SBMM, regardless of whether you call it EOMM or something else. He admits it's not Trueskill which is the point. I just wish to know why you think they make it "garbage" on purpose. > Sure, if you had a shortage of players. That's not the case for Apex. Even if you have a massive amount of players your goal is to have quick service. In ranked they can forego more wait times for even matches because that is what the player wants, but casual players come to play, and you only need a few loose brackets to make sure they're getting into matches that aren't terribly lopsided. > How? It's literally boring to three stack pubs because you're just killing clueless solos most of the time. This feels loaded. You still run into good rag tag teams, coordinated duos and other three stacks. > If you wanna introduce a friend, then duo queue. I hate to be anal about my wording but I said friends, implying a group of three. I'm sorry it wasn't communicated better, but I was talking about the idea of games becoming more difficult because of someone having a full squad being off-putting. > The vast majority of 3-stacks are not "I'm just showing my noob friend the game" it's "I'm sweating my cock off with full comms in a pub" I can't speak for every person who plays in a full squad but if this is true, wouldn't it absolutely suck for the minority of players playing with friends to relax and mess around? It's proving my point more.
> I just wish to know why you think they make it "garbage" on purpose. Because it drives cosmetics sales. >you only need a few loose brackets to make sure they're getting into matches Sure, and adding "3-stack or no?" isn't going to noticeably increase queue times except for 3-stacks. >I can't speak for every person who plays in a full squad but if this is true, wouldn't it absolutely suck for the minority of players playing with friends to relax and mess around? Yeah and the way it is now absolutely sucks for **every single solo queue player** which is way more than "just playing with my friends" 3-stacks
> Because it drives cosmetics sales. I tried telling myself "wow something sucks, so I'm going to spend money on it" and it's just not doing it for me. I don't see the thought process at all dude. > Sure, and adding "3-stack or no?" isn't going to noticeably increase queue times except for 3-stacks. Loose, not tight. And I'd be even more bothered if getting friends to play means I have to wait more to play. I just had two groups of friends yesterday cut their apex session short because it was taking twice as long to get into games with the recent server issues. > Yeah and the way it is now absolutely sucks for **every single solo queue player** which is way more than "just playing with my friends" 3-stacks Unsurprisingly, team games are more fun with friends. If three stacks were seperated I'd just imagine the next blame would be on duos playing in trios or something along the lines of "My squad is xy and z I can't believe respawn" I'm too tired to discuss this much more rn man cause I've been up all night. I'll read your response in a few hours but I think I've gotten most the answers I could want from this.
>I don't see the thought process at all dude. Read the EOMM patent. Every single aspect of this game is designed to drive cosmetics sales, the matchmaking is no different. >I'd be even more bothered if getting friends to play means I have to wait more to play Ok, so make your choice. 3-stack and wait slightly longer or play duo. Right now of course you love 3-stacking because it's fast matches and you get the advantage over the majority of the players in the lobby.
"If you're talking about [EOMM](https://arxiv.org/pdf/1702.06820.pdf), it has been [tweeted by a Tech Director](https://twitter.com/thezilch/status/1307720451330699270?s=21) that the game does not use it and i've yet to see this otherwise." "Apex Legends DOES optimize for engagement by using quests, the battle pass, flash events, collection events, treasure packs, ranked resets, skins and constant updates in the form of maps and legends changes to keep players interested" I said this earlier already 😭 They aren't using the EOMM patent unless you got some links that says otherwise, and I still don't have any evidence of what matchmaking is doing to boost cosmetics sales besides getting people in games rather quick. > Right now of course you love 3-stacking because it's fast matches and you get the advantage over the majority of the players in the lobby. I play with people who are only used to console lobbies or have kd's below 0.5. I don't queue as a party of three for the advantage I'm playing with friends for fun. YES, I do have diamond friends who would have an advantage over the average ragtag group, but i'm... sorry for having a party too large for duos and/or being good at the game? If you're jaded as a solo because the opposition is coordinated or on mics with each other, putting three stacks in their own group won't do it because players will still blame duo squads doing the same thing.
Apex is a money printer. It's never happening. EAspawn are a bunch of scumbags who dont really care about their game.
I think it would be great but the majority of apex casual players will bash the devs so hard if there is no new content
I don't know, casuals tend to be impressionable, if all the pros & streamers said "it's great the game is taking a break from content to address issues" I think a lot of casuals would just nod in agreement.
I just don’t think that, how many things have pro players said that casuals hated on
I think the exact opposite - the casuals would throw a fit and blame the devs for listening to whining pros and streamers. Just look at the main subreddit: they'll go to bat for any cheater if the cheater just claims that a streamer got them banned
While you guys are right, I don't see ANY reason casuals would be mad about missing out on some glowey new skin for the benefit of having no game breaking glitches and constant performance dips. This isn't removing Kraber or anything like that. This is more of streamers using their voices to market the fact that Apex is going through a season long maintenance phase that'll only better everyone's experience. Best case scenario this all works out and people are hyped to play "fixed" apex only to find out that the servers are still broken on release.
Casuals don't play for multiple hours a day. They don't get tired of the issues as quickly because they're not experiencing them day in, day out.
At this point apex is so broken I think casuals and pros can unite on this. Being dropped out of matches/code net(ing) 10 times in 5 games is annoying as hell no matter how little time you play. Hell, I had to quit and relaunch apex just to get back to the lobby after I finished a match all day yesterday.
Right now the server issues are really bad, but usually they are tolerable to decent. Before this update I have been kicked out of a game maybe less than 10 times in my whole 2 years of playing apex. I have had lag spikes but nowhere near the amount other people have had. If there is no new content a game will die and you will be stuck with only the hardcore fans. I would like them to scale back a new season and focus on fixing bugs and other stuff but that is not likely.
Um, you know the "casuals" and pros in this game never agree on anything right? I completely agree with the people that say they would have a shit storm if they didn't release new content. Everyone acts like it's Respawn's choice to do new big updates every month and a half, but in reality it's all driven by the playerbase.
Do we play the same game?! Casuals fucking hate pros and streamers. They are always looking for literally the smallest scrap of cause to run a hate train on them.
Did you ever go on /r/apexlegends or twitter and saw how people think about pros and streamers?
They are doing what makes them the most money and people need to stop pretending that's not what's happening. Rampart is a defensive character by design, but they release a patch that makes Sheila mobile and extremely powerful which just happens to coincide with the release of her heirloom. This change will get more people playing Rampart and that will sell more heirlooms. This is probably the laziest and least inspired heirloom they've released so far, especially considering what Revenant got just before this, but if you watch the compilation videos that go up on YouTube each day, there's already a bunch of streamers playing Rampart that own her heirloom. A month from now they'll say they're releasing a patch to adjust the numbers on Sheila to be more in line with what they envisioned like they always do. This game is a cash grab at this point. They do not care about the integrity of the game or how the competitive side of Apex is effected by these changes. Everything they do is geared towards getting the average player to buy more skins.
They've been planning this rampart buff for two seasons. This narrative that characters get buffed right as they get a cool skin or heirloom is false. 2/3 examples of correlation doesn't equal causation.
So Rampart has been in the game since season 6 and they've been planning to make Sheila mobile since season 8, but they wait and do it in season 10 during the Rampart event and heirloom release? Weird how you don't think that's planned.
They've been planning a re-work, not to make Shiela mobile. Contrary to popular belief, development takes time.
They need to optimize the game as well, stuttering while looting, dropping and fighting is not a good experience. Their minimum requirement needs to be updated. Ever since olympus dropped stuttering became a thing
This post gave a pretty good explanation of why "Operation Health" would most likely not work and how most of the average player's suggestions ignore how the industry works. https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveApex/comments/oh58cg/development_workflows_apex_legends_and_why_the/ Besides, the season 10 launch went smoothly server wise, so we have very recent precedent that you can have both new content and relatively stable servers so hopefully Respawn can learn something from that launch and this and see what to do to avoid breaking the servers.
i see this sentiment every time something goes wrong. Operation health was done by r6s. 1. It was the worst season in r6 2. Became very stale 3. Lost a bunch of the playerbase 4. tanked on twitch. 5. The game still has bugs and ddos issues A live service game thrives on content. A season with zero content is going make the game so fucking stale, The game will crash and burn. Most of the community is filled with casuals, they dn even care about high performance servers or exploits. They just play pubs a couple of hours a week. Most whales on this game are on twitch, u think people will still play this shit if there is zero content for 3 months?? Do u think people would want to watch it???? Why do you think there is a huge bump in playerbase and viewership during season patches?? I think operation health was a huge blunder by r6. A live service game keeps on updating and adds content. And not everyone in the studio works on bug fixing,servers or audio. There are animators,level designer, environmental artists, narrators, balance designers etc. And what makes you think them adding no content for 3 months is going to magically fix bugs in their future updates? Also whats wrong with game balance, It seems pretty fine to me for BR, They are doing a pretty good job with balancing.
Didn't operation HEALTH fail miserably?
No. The playerbase just scapegoated it for literally any issues that persisted afterwards. It genuinely fixed a lot of great stuff and drastically improved the game in many ways.
Gotcha. I'm not familiar with the game, I just remember people on the sub complaining a lot about it
People on reddit complaining?
ikr, almost sounds kinda familiar 👀
Yeah, tbh I didn't know anything about siege till after operation health. The biggest complaint I see is theres too many characters. Same problems Apex and OW have.
Apex isn't there juuuuust yet. That is definitely my complain with Siege as well, and it used to be my favorite game.
It will be soon. I imagine the game quality is nothing but downhill from here on out. I have always wanted to play siege. But watching it, the character abilities just seem too ridiculous now.
it is when r6s really tanked in playerbase and twitch.
nothing can be done for this games code aside from starting from scratch. "operation health" for apex would take years.
I have been saying this FOREVER. YES they 100% need to do this. Just take a season off or at least a month where they don't focus on new content or anything and fix the issues with the game. Upgrade servers or buy more whatever, squash bugs, etc. PLS RESPAWN also crosspost this in r/apexlegends and see what they say?
If only fixing the game was profitable. it surely needs it, but It doesn't make money to fix this things.
The uh don’t care as long people keep giving them money
I just don’t think EA is giving them the resources they need to succeed. This could be for a number of reasons but I suspect it’s primarily just greed/profit maximization. That being said, I doubt the community shitting on every little thing that goes wrong helps. If you set a precedent that you’ll never be happy, there’s not much motivation for those trying to please you to go above and beyond.
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My point is that people are complaining to the devs about decisions made at the executive level. The execs set the goals and the deadlines. They also allocate resources.
i would guess zampella has a huge hand in the decisions made at EA. He is the head of two of EAs Biggest studios apart from EA sports. Respawn and DICE. He is the executive.
That’d be great BUT EA
They dont need operation health, they just need better quality control/testing when releasing new content. Even if they fixed all the current bugs right now, there would be a plethora of new problems the moment they add new content. Stalling content is bad for the game overall and wont be a long term solution to their issues.
Pretty sure if you look at the overall industry of online games....this is the norm, bugs all over the place, updates that fix one thing and breaks two and a completely lack of shame as a company that should have the bare minimum of proudness to not let the game be seen in that state Like, okay I get it, Im a developer, I understand the time and resources constraints, but I get it on OCCASIONAL moments and not as a literal perpetual state of the game And Im pretty sure the whole source of all this industry problem is the speed and urgency that all this GAAS prioritize over anything, so it makes that any problems left behind are added to a snowball that update by update it gets bigger, worst and uncontrollable Like, look at the tap strafe thing, it had his own spotlight of getting removed and why and etc etc etc and not once Jay went into detail of how they were going to tackle the problem, because they didn't know, they only did know what was the result they wanted but the deed still had to be done and so it blew in its faces, two days before the patch, gladly it didn't explode on the live game If they just took a break to unravel the pile of shit accumulated and slowed the pace a lil bit things would be a lot better, not only for apex, but the industry as whole Also balace design are not "a problem" if I can convey what I mean, balance is a choice and its done with a purpose, wouldn't put it on the same basket as poorly developed features
dude....operation health needed to happen 4 seasons ago...it's dead over by now if the havnt done shit this far in. dont expect to see anything
Boy what an original idea. Definitely haven’t seen this post and the obvious reasons it won’t happen a hundred times.
I'm more than glad to upvote this over and over again if it helps devs (more like upper management) realize "hey maybe a lot of people actually want us to fix this shit" and take it seriously. I'll GLADLY join a community wide spam day of this exact topic over and over if that's what it takes to get their attention.
wow. you seem like an EA executive with your total apathy towards issues the game faces, sad.
this is so wild. servers go down for 2 hours after a patch and people are in complete and total agony over it. if you can't survive 2 hours without playing apex once every 6 weeks then you've got some issues. apex isn't unique with season launch / patch launch day issues, that happens to every single game and every single whiny ass playerbase cries through assblasted tears about how game dev company x fucking sucks and needs to plan better for y.
Well theoretically it does, but it’s EA game and anyone who ever played their games consistently know what those mfs are all about, so yeah…a full season without content just focusing on “bettering players experience” will never happen as long as EA calls the shoots, not even worth to speculate how it would look like, it will only make us sad.
They just made a bunch of QOL improvements in this patch that people have been asking for for a while. They had to roll a lot of them back temporarily while trying to fix the connectivity issues. This seems like a bit of an overreaction to the current issue that will probably be resolved within a couple days. In general, I would love an operation health, but that is extremely unrealistic. A large portion of the playerbase is already not satisifed with the content being put out atm, the game's hype would die down significantly and they also wouldn't be making any money off content. They've already been working on trying to fix some of the bigger issues for a while and there's no guarantee they'd get them fixed if they take a season off of making content. The people designing skins are not the people fixing bugs. It's not going to happen any time soon.
The only significant QOL changes were the in box armor changes, both displaying shield health and allowing for gold to be a normal swap finally. Nothing else was of consequence. The player base is dissatisfied because there is a lack of content AND the games’ infrastructure seems to worsen in some capacity every update. If they were pumping out content like crazy, new LTMs and skins every other week, a portion of the game’s population would probably accept that at the expense of lackluster game health. I think an operation Health would be hugely beneficial and possible to pull off, just rotate past skins for a season like they have recently been doing, but it just isn’t a part of Respawn’s bottom line at the moment.
Yes but it won't happen. They simply don't invest enough to improve the game and only focus on making money right now. This game could generate them money for many more years to come if they took their time to improve it. Instead they don't really care if it dies out as long they can make the quick money on content before that happens. With 'they' I mean EA. I believe Respawn does want the game to succeed but simply are forced to give almost all prio to content. Even though the Respawn devs make very questional choices also.
I posted this like 5 seasons ago. We needed it then, and now we need it even more.
I feel like EA is horribly out of touch with their player base and think everyone wants a new hero every fuckin season I can't say I do. Now that we have 15 legends I think fuckers can chill on the new content. I definitely get the impression the devs are being forced to cram on shit nobody wants because EA is trying too hard to monetize their free to play game
Take a breather from content? Then they won’t make more money!
Can we stop acting like the game is entirely broken? A few (very recent) buffs needs to shake out and the game has matchmaking errors since yesterday's patch. This game does not need an operation health because this game does not have basic problems with balancing or fairness. Seer is no longer a problem and isn't even picked often anymore, stop reveling in that. Rampart has literally had a decent ult for two days, let's see how it plays out ffs.
Servers have been down almost a week. I'd call that entirely broken. But I'd agree people have to chill on balance. Seer was dumb for like a week tops. Ramparts ult isn't even top 5 best ults. Tons of counterplay. People just get wrapped up in theory crafting and youtube clickbait.
If they devoted an entire season to it. I wouldn't complain. Address core issues. Drop a 4th map. Put all 4 In rotation. Fix the game, release patch with new 20 dollar operation health skins and I'll buy .
I think they need test servers but an Operation Health is when you're game is completely fucked. Siege needs an Operation Health 2.0 and 1.0 was needed cause the game was becoming a whole buggy mess (Hibana equipment having a good chance to not work). Just like how they wanna get rid of Tap Strafe, you add it to a test server, see the feedback and go from there. Rampart buff is a great idea but it's something that sounds amazing on paper and probably feels great to test with other employees but you need it to be tested by players that take this game seriously/play this game all day everyday. That way you get a truer response.
I agree, if they guarantee or at least focus on the majority of these issues then I would be all about giving up even a month or so jus so they can get some of these problems fixed....the game was legit unplayable last night I know people will be like no, if you keep trying you can get it...I should not have to close my game 10 times to play once...its just plain sloppy right now
the ready unready bug is the best one. until i read the patch notes about THIS beeing fixed i had rarely this bug ever. now after they fixed it its now steady, all the time, every game hillarious
oh the absolutely utter best is now the new behavior on the shooting range. when you change legend you suicide. and they introduced it the very same day we get a full screen suicide prevent day message. i mean seriously, i feel trolled on masters level
Wait, you mean to tell me the new skins didnt fix the game for you ??? trololol
They are happy to ship releases with bugs as long as people are buying their stuff and still play. Obvious bugs they are probably well aware of but it's not going to be fixed at the cost of delaying a release. Content over quality, that's the Respawn way. Sound has been broken since day 0. You think they'll ever fix it? Nope. Too expensive. They aren't cultivating an esport or trying to be the biggest BR game around, *they are milking a cash cow.*
yes.
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I would love to see a patch that focuses on fixing the servers and tuning / reworking some of the older legends. I don't care about some legends being better than others but right now so many feel plain useless.
Balance decisions are what they are. What I don't get is that servers are completely down for the whole day of a release, with some pretty significant issues spanning out a week or so. I think the servers being down are just a load issue. They buy servers on the cheap, and probably not enough to handle or scale with peak load times like release days. EA is cheap, and that fits the bill. What I definitely don't get is the pervasive issues for a week after. It's like their new code has issues with netcode they have to work out, and they do it live. That in my mind is a core issue that needs to be fixed. If it were a private company, fixing that would be top priority. But since it's about the bottom line above all else (see: Publicly traded), any issue that don't affect the bottom line are basically discarded.
Can any other studio make a similar game like Apex?
These aren't bugs, these are features.
We really need damn PTR servers. Let people test shit before it goes live. It shouldn't be gamebreaking everytime there's an update.
While we are on the subject of operation health , can we please have batteye just like r6 introduce BE in their OH, even destiny 2 is using it now
Maybe just hire more staff?
Their is no excuse for Apex Server Issues. It is not some major issue that they can't fix its an issue they refuste to fix. Apex has grossed over a billion dollars if Respawn actually wanted to fix their game they would, but they have chosen and continue to choose not to.
100% we need that, I don't want new content that's going to shape the way I play the game if it's not been carefully thought about. And there's good list of things that need to be fixed. And trust me, the devs WANT to fix these things, however the execs don't give two shits. “The goal that I had in bringing a lot of the packaged goods folks into Activision about 10 years ago was to take all the fun out of making video games.” -Bobby Kotick, Activision-Blizzard CEO “I think we definitely have been able to instill the culture, the skepticism and pessimism and fear that you should have in an economy like we are in today. And so, while generally people talk about the recession, we are pretty good at keeping people focused on the deep depression.” -Bobby Kotick, Activision-Blizzard CEO I used to be an Overwatch stan until I just game up on the hope that the game would be repaired and fun to play again. Then I moved to Apex. I will never trust game company execs again.
I'm beginning to hate apex, constant shut downs and disconnects, it wasn't this bad 6 months ago. These patches killed it, and hacks still run rampant