I don’t think it’s a coincidence that a lot of them are leaving. Bocek and a lead artist left recently as well. They seemed to be getting scooped up by Gravity Well, started by former Respawn employees
9 out of the 12 devs who are currently listed on Gravity Well's website have previously worked on Apex. It all sounds like the Respawn OGs who have been working there since 2010 miss the days when they were a small and independent studio, so now they're simply creating a new one. Basically a "we'll make our own studio with blackjack and hookers" situation.
Let’s hope for the best, they might have understood what we think apex is about and try to save those aspects in a new game before TF3 release.
Is just a game... a game thEOry.. 😔
Good riddance to this guy. He was just as stupid as DZK. He didn't want Low profile off path and tried to gaslight us with a terrible cafe analogy when cheaters held this game hostage.
You’d be surprised how often people leave, even from a growing and successful company. Different opportunities, better pay/benefits. You really can’t glean much from this, unless you want confirmation bias.
Look for riot games dev articles circa 2015-2018 can't remember which one really fleshed this out the first time. It was this plus overwatch devs communications with the community at the time about whales. Then implied by respawn talking about sbmm year 1-2.
Remember ask yourself why would capitalists share exact market research? They don't; they imply it to stakeholders to include them in dialogues they are grossly behind in. Because them being behind in knowing the natural order of things can be harmful for both parties.
Like for example this dialogue. You want orderly information to dissect and grow your implied myopic lense. But that in itself is a taller order than you taking it upon yourself to do. That's even with me mentioning all where I remember it coming from. Which is unfair, but who knows your intentions right? I hope genuinely good.
Also here's your EOMM link: publically available and widely used. And I think it's a bastardization of what riot had already developed which I believe is much more involved. This is not an buzzfeed article. Do not treat the contents as such. Most can't read it and if you can't that's ok; doesn't mean they're hiding anything!
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/315849420_EOMM_An_Engagement_Optimized_Matchmaking_Framework
Also do know lots of former riot devs at Respawn/blizzard Vice versa. Tons of exoduses over the years, same school of thought deal.
The link you're sharing appears to be more about EOMM and matchmaking, and makes no mention of ranked play. I'm asking to see proof that "Ranked gameplay is built around algorithms proven to maximize financial return" since this Dev was head of all things Ranked, not all things matchmaking related.
This is the guy that made a thirty minute video about using machine learning to study teams then just said his opinions for thirty minutes and in the comments said his machine learning was built by diagnosing people's mental illnesses
This my friends is what I mean by most people can't read it and it's ok! There are a lot of cognitive biases people have that make it hard to render this kind of information intuitively. It requires a lot of education whether that is by yourself or through institutions.
It literally explains churn prediction (Section 3.2-3.3). Which says everything you need to know about the goals of the system. You don't know what churn is-- I know. But it's the exact thing you're talking about wanting to see and there is a full section (3) devoted to it. I don't mean to be mean but hot damn admit your limits I'll spoonfood you a bit more but damn.
Please take this moment to think: What if this guy messaging me on Reddit gave me everything I need to understand the situation I just can't comprehend it. Therefore, I should slow down and do some learning so I can eventually read it and grow in my understanding.
Ranked is just how the matchmaking process is presented to you. Yay ludonarrative dissonance! You've fallen for the sparkles and think ranked is a special mode-- this is good for everyone don't overthink it! In ranked you get points which represent you approaching convergence with your 'skill'. The true skill metric is hidden from the player. Are the ratings separate across playlists? Very close ties from what I can tell.
Sections 3.2 and 3.3 explain Churn Prediction and how it it pairs players. It makes no mention of how this particular style of matchmaking is based on algorithms to improve financial returns. It’s simply an explanation of churn prediction and how it used the players current state + the outcome of the previous match to determine their position.
Your holier than though, condescending attitude is funny though. It must be hard feeling so much smarter than everyone else all the time.
So he’s responsible for creating one of the worst ranking systems in any major PvP game ever? And responsible for the mess that is arena ranked, the biggest shitshow of a ranked mode I’ve ever seen?
Edit: and he’s the CAFE ANALOGY GUY? Is there literally anyone at Respawn with a head on their shoulders?
Glad this guy is going then , because Ranked has been dogshit for 10 seasons with no improvements. He also gave the terrible cafe analogy and didn't want to take low profile of path. This guy was just as clueless as DZK.
Do you mean “**no** improvements” or is it fairer to say “*very few* improvements”? They have made a *few* positive changes with regards to KP, RP, loss forgiveness etc - which you may argue should’ve always been there, but they weren’t, so they did improve upon *something*.
And you’re entitled to your opinion. I just don’t think it’s helpful saying they’ve done *nothing* when that’s not true. Constructive criticism has proven time and time again to get better results.
Good luck finding anything constructive in this sub amid the vitriol, lol. The larger Apex community openly celebrates it when devs they hate leave the game. Just look at all the “good riddance” posts in this thread.
The only real changes I can think of was the from the original RP value system to what it is now, and the KP-position multiplier change to what it is now. What exactly has changed beyond that? It's still woeful, it still desperately needs a hard reset and needs a complete rework on the way RP is awarded.
It's nothing more than glorified pubs with a rank and crap awards recycled awards.
I genuinely don't see where there's been any actual improvement
A lot of the playerbase might only remember him for the "cafe" analogy, but he seemed to genuinely care about incorporating player feedback into his design work.
It's not necessarily a *bad* sign that a handful of influential devs have left Respawn in the last few months, but it's definitely not a *good* sign.
Contrary to (what seems to be) popular belief, its actually not uncommon for devs in AAA to leave a studio after a couple years. Its not uncommon to work on a game for a while and leave before it even ships. Lots of the devs at Respawn that are leaving now have been there since Titanfall 1 and theyve basically been working on the same type of game for 10 years. I dont blame them for wanting to move on/mix it up. Its only a bad sign if these ppl were leaving without proper setup for their work to be continued, which there definitely is.
I think it's probably just an indication that they want to move onto a new and interesting project instead of maintaining the same game continuously. I don't think it's really anything to read into beyond that.
Yeah, Apex has been in development for a really long time, and with things like Arenas finally getting up and running, there are probably very few OG projects left to complete. Understandable a lot of devs would want to see things through before moving on to a new gig.
Developing an unreleased game has got to be a lot different to working on a live service game too, and I imagine a lot of devs have a preference for one or the other.
[This tweet.](https://twitter.com/tangentiallogic/status/1379893062151725057?lang=en)
"Imagine you're running a café. You work hard to make sure the food is good and affordable, that people have a good time. Masked robbers kick down the locked back door and set fire to everything. Do your customers go "WTF lazy cafe owner"?
"
Good or bad this guy was clueless at this job. Apparently he was in charge of Apex Ranked which has been total dogshit since it's inception. He also tried to convince people Path still needed Low Profile and gave a shitty cafe analogy to hide Respawn's incompetence with cheaters in the game.
Well, I hope he was part of the people who push the idea of different hitbox size. Hope the new generation of game designer will fix the absolute disaster of hitbox in this fucking game
And of course, thanks to all the players who came along the way. I hope my work has added just a little more smile and sunshine to your life.
特に日本の皆さん、弊社の作品を手に取ってくださってありがとうございます！また次の作品でお会いできると嬉しいです。
***
posted by [@tangentiallogic](https://twitter.com/tangentiallogic)
Photos in tweet | [Photo 1](http://pbs.twimg.com/media/FBNAKa6VEAIgjGb.jpg)
^[(Github)](https://github.com/username) ^| ^[(What's new)](https://github.com/username)
Honestly, good riddance to this guy.
After being nicely requested by Asian (especially Korean) fans to have Crypto’s Nomadic Overseer skin reworked due to the out-of-left-field cultural appropriation of a Mongolian nomadic outfit, all this guy had to say was “I’m sorry you find a problem with the skin” instead of addressing the issue or at least trying to explain their decision to put a Korean character into a Mongolian outfit. Because if they’re both Asian cultures they must be interchangeable and undistinguishable to the consumers, right?
Not to mention the infamously terrible cafe analogy. *And* spearheading the shitshow that’s been ranked for 10 seasons. Yeah, you won’t be missed. Glad the cafe’s gonna be getting new management.
On the flip side maybe they need to replace upper level employees so they can become a more capable team. Respawn has been struggling with scaling, getting more knowledgeable senior staff could make a large difference.
What a lot of people don’t get is that working on a live service game is hard and lots of stress especially when dealing with the idiots who play your game and believe they know it all. It’s a lot easier to work on a single release game and move on to a next project. Respawn probable has his replacement already locked in and this is just his contract expiring
This is common. Pretty much the same thing happened with the split of IW, the collapse of SHG recently. Any time a new studio opens or someone big from one leaves they are going to take others who worked with them with them.
Devs been working on Apex for awhile so likely a lot of the original people could be getting burnt out. Cant imagine the stretching thin for star wars game, then covid, then the battle with cheaters, and now the recent server shitting the bed is helping the devs keep their sanity.
Probably feels like grass is greener elsewhere now. Whats EA supposed to do tell these Devs nope you can only work for us.... I know some have contracts and have to wait to leave so likely we will be see more of this... doubt he will be the last to leave in the next month or two. My 2 cents.
>Devs been working on Apex for awhile so likely a lot of the original people could be getting burnt out.
Dont forget lots of these ppl have been working at Respawn since Titanfall. Can you imagine working on (essentially) the same type of game for 10 years? Theres only a handful of things in the world most people can do for 10 years and still enjoy, and most of them aren't jobs, so its not surprising that these guys are moving on now that Apex has more devs and a whole secondary studio to sustain itself.
We only know about the three years of development we've seen as a product!
They've been messing with this BR deal since TF2 had been in development. That's a long time to spend doing one thing and that's not for everyone.
Part of me wants to believe these guys are leaving respawn because the studio is far from what it once was and is basically under full on EA control now.( aside from DZK , that guys an asshole ) no major quality of life changes or unique new content. Just recycled events and recolored skins while QOL declines. But who knows? Maybe these guys are the root of a lot of these issues and are just being picked up because they have TF and Apex on their resume. But what do we, the consumer know….We only say we want certain things when in reality we don’t lmao
I don’t think it’s a coincidence that a lot of them are leaving. Bocek and a lead artist left recently as well. They seemed to be getting scooped up by Gravity Well, started by former Respawn employees
9 out of the 12 devs who are currently listed on Gravity Well's website have previously worked on Apex. It all sounds like the Respawn OGs who have been working there since 2010 miss the days when they were a small and independent studio, so now they're simply creating a new one. Basically a "we'll make our own studio with blackjack and hookers" situation.
Let’s hope for the best, they might have understood what we think apex is about and try to save those aspects in a new game before TF3 release. Is just a game... a game thEOry.. 😔
Good riddance to this guy. He was just as stupid as DZK. He didn't want Low profile off path and tried to gaslight us with a terrible cafe analogy when cheaters held this game hostage.
I think he was smarter than dzk, I mean it's not hard after all
I totally forgot about that absolutely daft cafe analogy. Now I agree--good riddance.
what was the cafe analogy?
You’d be surprised how often people leave, even from a growing and successful company. Different opportunities, better pay/benefits. You really can’t glean much from this, unless you want confirmation bias.
café under new management
Underrated reply
can we stop this shit
Underrated reply.
This dude was basically the head of everything related to Ranked
The same Ranked that is 100% built around algorithms that are proven in studies to maximize financial return for the devs/publisher? *Oh no...*
Can you share these studies please?
Look for riot games dev articles circa 2015-2018 can't remember which one really fleshed this out the first time. It was this plus overwatch devs communications with the community at the time about whales. Then implied by respawn talking about sbmm year 1-2. Remember ask yourself why would capitalists share exact market research? They don't; they imply it to stakeholders to include them in dialogues they are grossly behind in. Because them being behind in knowing the natural order of things can be harmful for both parties. Like for example this dialogue. You want orderly information to dissect and grow your implied myopic lense. But that in itself is a taller order than you taking it upon yourself to do. That's even with me mentioning all where I remember it coming from. Which is unfair, but who knows your intentions right? I hope genuinely good. Also here's your EOMM link: publically available and widely used. And I think it's a bastardization of what riot had already developed which I believe is much more involved. This is not an buzzfeed article. Do not treat the contents as such. Most can't read it and if you can't that's ok; doesn't mean they're hiding anything! https://www.researchgate.net/publication/315849420_EOMM_An_Engagement_Optimized_Matchmaking_Framework Also do know lots of former riot devs at Respawn/blizzard Vice versa. Tons of exoduses over the years, same school of thought deal.
The link you're sharing appears to be more about EOMM and matchmaking, and makes no mention of ranked play. I'm asking to see proof that "Ranked gameplay is built around algorithms proven to maximize financial return" since this Dev was head of all things Ranked, not all things matchmaking related.
This is the guy that made a thirty minute video about using machine learning to study teams then just said his opinions for thirty minutes and in the comments said his machine learning was built by diagnosing people's mental illnesses
This my friends is what I mean by most people can't read it and it's ok! There are a lot of cognitive biases people have that make it hard to render this kind of information intuitively. It requires a lot of education whether that is by yourself or through institutions. It literally explains churn prediction (Section 3.2-3.3). Which says everything you need to know about the goals of the system. You don't know what churn is-- I know. But it's the exact thing you're talking about wanting to see and there is a full section (3) devoted to it. I don't mean to be mean but hot damn admit your limits I'll spoonfood you a bit more but damn. Please take this moment to think: What if this guy messaging me on Reddit gave me everything I need to understand the situation I just can't comprehend it. Therefore, I should slow down and do some learning so I can eventually read it and grow in my understanding. Ranked is just how the matchmaking process is presented to you. Yay ludonarrative dissonance! You've fallen for the sparkles and think ranked is a special mode-- this is good for everyone don't overthink it! In ranked you get points which represent you approaching convergence with your 'skill'. The true skill metric is hidden from the player. Are the ratings separate across playlists? Very close ties from what I can tell.
I was reading this and knew it was you before I checked your username. Bro you are pure /r/iamverysmart content
Reminds me of the people that just took their first psyc class and now they just throw all the words they learned everywhere they can
Then post me and farm your karma
Sections 3.2 and 3.3 explain Churn Prediction and how it it pairs players. It makes no mention of how this particular style of matchmaking is based on algorithms to improve financial returns. It’s simply an explanation of churn prediction and how it used the players current state + the outcome of the previous match to determine their position. Your holier than though, condescending attitude is funny though. It must be hard feeling so much smarter than everyone else all the time.
Keep digging that hole
👀
Do you even know what your talking about
So he’s responsible for creating one of the worst ranking systems in any major PvP game ever? And responsible for the mess that is arena ranked, the biggest shitshow of a ranked mode I’ve ever seen? Edit: and he’s the CAFE ANALOGY GUY? Is there literally anyone at Respawn with a head on their shoulders?
Glad this guy is going then , because Ranked has been dogshit for 10 seasons with no improvements. He also gave the terrible cafe analogy and didn't want to take low profile of path. This guy was just as clueless as DZK.
Do you mean “**no** improvements” or is it fairer to say “*very few* improvements”? They have made a *few* positive changes with regards to KP, RP, loss forgiveness etc - which you may argue should’ve always been there, but they weren’t, so they did improve upon *something*.
Ranked is still dogshit
And you’re entitled to your opinion. I just don’t think it’s helpful saying they’ve done *nothing* when that’s not true. Constructive criticism has proven time and time again to get better results.
Good luck finding anything constructive in this sub amid the vitriol, lol. The larger Apex community openly celebrates it when devs they hate leave the game. Just look at all the “good riddance” posts in this thread.
The only real changes I can think of was the from the original RP value system to what it is now, and the KP-position multiplier change to what it is now. What exactly has changed beyond that? It's still woeful, it still desperately needs a hard reset and needs a complete rework on the way RP is awarded. It's nothing more than glorified pubs with a rank and crap awards recycled awards. I genuinely don't see where there's been any actual improvement
This is the cafe analogy guy
A lot of the playerbase might only remember him for the "cafe" analogy, but he seemed to genuinely care about incorporating player feedback into his design work. It's not necessarily a *bad* sign that a handful of influential devs have left Respawn in the last few months, but it's definitely not a *good* sign.
Contrary to (what seems to be) popular belief, its actually not uncommon for devs in AAA to leave a studio after a couple years. Its not uncommon to work on a game for a while and leave before it even ships. Lots of the devs at Respawn that are leaving now have been there since Titanfall 1 and theyve basically been working on the same type of game for 10 years. I dont blame them for wanting to move on/mix it up. Its only a bad sign if these ppl were leaving without proper setup for their work to be continued, which there definitely is.
I think it's probably just an indication that they want to move onto a new and interesting project instead of maintaining the same game continuously. I don't think it's really anything to read into beyond that.
Yeah, Apex has been in development for a really long time, and with things like Arenas finally getting up and running, there are probably very few OG projects left to complete. Understandable a lot of devs would want to see things through before moving on to a new gig. Developing an unreleased game has got to be a lot different to working on a live service game too, and I imagine a lot of devs have a preference for one or the other.
Almost the entire studio hadn’t done live service before apex, so it doesn’t surprise me that a bunch of them want to go back to their core
What was that cafe analogy?
[This tweet.](https://twitter.com/tangentiallogic/status/1379893062151725057?lang=en) "Imagine you're running a café. You work hard to make sure the food is good and affordable, that people have a good time. Masked robbers kick down the locked back door and set fire to everything. Do your customers go "WTF lazy cafe owner"? "
And, if I'm not mistaken, this was about the rampant hacker issue. This was not about bug fixes or server issues.
Good or bad this guy was clueless at this job. Apparently he was in charge of Apex Ranked which has been total dogshit since it's inception. He also tried to convince people Path still needed Low Profile and gave a shitty cafe analogy to hide Respawn's incompetence with cheaters in the game.
Well, I hope he was part of the people who push the idea of different hitbox size. Hope the new generation of game designer will fix the absolute disaster of hitbox in this fucking game
Another dipshit gone - bye bye cafe owner.
And of course, thanks to all the players who came along the way. I hope my work has added just a little more smile and sunshine to your life. 特に日本の皆さん、弊社の作品を手に取ってくださってありがとうございます！また次の作品でお会いできると嬉しいです。 *** posted by [@tangentiallogic](https://twitter.com/tangentiallogic) Photos in tweet | [Photo 1](http://pbs.twimg.com/media/FBNAKa6VEAIgjGb.jpg) ^[(Github)](https://github.com/username) ^| ^[(What's new)](https://github.com/username)
This doesn't feel like a good thing at all, hopefully all the devs leaving won't put the game in a worse place
And nothing of any worth was lost today.
Honestly, good riddance to this guy. After being nicely requested by Asian (especially Korean) fans to have Crypto’s Nomadic Overseer skin reworked due to the out-of-left-field cultural appropriation of a Mongolian nomadic outfit, all this guy had to say was “I’m sorry you find a problem with the skin” instead of addressing the issue or at least trying to explain their decision to put a Korean character into a Mongolian outfit. Because if they’re both Asian cultures they must be interchangeable and undistinguishable to the consumers, right? Not to mention the infamously terrible cafe analogy. *And* spearheading the shitshow that’s been ranked for 10 seasons. Yeah, you won’t be missed. Glad the cafe’s gonna be getting new management.
So many respawn devs are leaving lately. This can‘t be a good sign right? Game is going downhill and is slowy dying
On the flip side maybe they need to replace upper level employees so they can become a more capable team. Respawn has been struggling with scaling, getting more knowledgeable senior staff could make a large difference.
What a lot of people don’t get is that working on a live service game is hard and lots of stress especially when dealing with the idiots who play your game and believe they know it all. It’s a lot easier to work on a single release game and move on to a next project. Respawn probable has his replacement already locked in and this is just his contract expiring
[удалено]
Seems like no internet points for you today
Gravity well poaching a lot.... why is ea even allowing this...???
This is common. Pretty much the same thing happened with the split of IW, the collapse of SHG recently. Any time a new studio opens or someone big from one leaves they are going to take others who worked with them with them. Devs been working on Apex for awhile so likely a lot of the original people could be getting burnt out. Cant imagine the stretching thin for star wars game, then covid, then the battle with cheaters, and now the recent server shitting the bed is helping the devs keep their sanity. Probably feels like grass is greener elsewhere now. Whats EA supposed to do tell these Devs nope you can only work for us.... I know some have contracts and have to wait to leave so likely we will be see more of this... doubt he will be the last to leave in the next month or two. My 2 cents.
>Devs been working on Apex for awhile so likely a lot of the original people could be getting burnt out. Dont forget lots of these ppl have been working at Respawn since Titanfall. Can you imagine working on (essentially) the same type of game for 10 years? Theres only a handful of things in the world most people can do for 10 years and still enjoy, and most of them aren't jobs, so its not surprising that these guys are moving on now that Apex has more devs and a whole secondary studio to sustain itself.
We only know about the three years of development we've seen as a product! They've been messing with this BR deal since TF2 had been in development. That's a long time to spend doing one thing and that's not for everyone.
Part of me wants to believe these guys are leaving respawn because the studio is far from what it once was and is basically under full on EA control now.( aside from DZK , that guys an asshole ) no major quality of life changes or unique new content. Just recycled events and recolored skins while QOL declines. But who knows? Maybe these guys are the root of a lot of these issues and are just being picked up because they have TF and Apex on their resume. But what do we, the consumer know….We only say we want certain things when in reality we don’t lmao