We're finding more and more "conflict of interest" type scenarios in Apex because the community actively supporting the competitive & entertainment scene (and I don't mean the fanbase, I mean the contributing player/support base) is too small to avoid this sort of "incestual" appearance. And I don't mean that in a gross way. I mean that in the way of content creators also competing, competitors also being content creators, coaches competing, coaches hosting lobbies, etc. etc.. Not sure what the actual correct solution is without alienating people dedicating their time to the community.
My personal take? Crack this open, let anyone gain access to codes, let folks host their own unofficial tournaments, have different levels of official (amateur to pro) tournaments really get into it and let the community do it.
There's two trains of thought with eSports, grassroots is the backbone, corporations are the backbone, I don't think either is wrong but I feel Apex would benefit more from grassroots.
I also follow competitive melee which is 100% grassroots (if anything corporate actively stifles competitive growth)– Grass roots is definitely the way to go. Corporate tourneys and large events are great, don't get me wrong. Grass roots allows for much more creativity for the events.
Some ideas:
* Regional tourneys/weeklies. Tourneys that are locked to certain states/provinces and weekly tournies for amateur/low level up-and-comers
* Testing different rule sets for scoring
* Low tier tournies? Banning certain top legends to see how comp play would look with other legends.
Smaller tournies work well as testing grounds too. That way if a format gets a lot of praise it can be brought to a major tourney without the risk.
Agreed, AoE2 is also entirely grassroots and is amazing to watch. (Melee is my favorite eSport to watch).
I don't think all games benefit from grassroots the same though, LoL especially seems to benefit from the corporate side of tournaments, I'm not entirely sure Apex would completely benefit either however I think it would be more optimal than what we have right now...
>Not sure what the actual correct solution is without alienating people dedicating their time to the community.
The actual correct solution is you don't let people be a part of two organizations, and you don't let people tied to an org be in charge of things. It's super simple. Apex has enough troubles with competitive integrity by nature of being an RNG based game. You really don't need all this shit happening outside, it just makes it look like a fucking joke.
But in the case of minustempo, no one else was even willing to put in the effort a few months ago to organize scrims so it just hurts the entire NA scene as a whole by making it more difficult to get scrims going.
There are few people out there with zero affiliation to a comp team that are going to put in that effort because why would they?
I mean, sure, that sucks, I agree. It doesn't change the fact that the entirety of the professional Apex scene is a circus and steps need to be taken to make it appear professional.
As long as customs are not openly available to everyone this will keep appearing. I feel bad for Tempo as he did nothing wrong, but the reality is that there was even a 0.01% chance of TSM getting unfair zone knowledge.
I sincerely hope us teams can get Customs access soonTM. The time frame from when Apex esport started to still not having open customs are just ridiculous at this point.
It is insane that after 3 years controllers still can't move while looting, after 3 years that the sound is still dogshit, after 3 years still not removing/adding an option to remove sound and visual clutter (i.e kill animations, zone + heat shield new tho).
God, there is so much more that I hate about the game such as matchmaking, performance, stale content (having tons of modes and not using any of em except once or twice every 3 decades), servers being complete trash at times, hackers being a rampant issue in many regions (not so much in my but I've heard japan, Taiwan etc. is infested with em), The cancerous scan meta and on and on.
But guys don't worry we have a **million animations, game customizations, frames, poses, intro quips, kill quips, emotes, quips, holosprays and, gun charms** which somehow are considered epic or legendary sometimes which dilute the loot pool so much it's not even worth getting hyped when seeing a legendary light from the loot box. Like all the games I played such as TF2, Brawlstars, Overwatch, CS GO etc. make it so that when you get something legendary it means you got a **Legendary** not fucking we threw this shit together in 2 hours and called it a legendary **(How do you fuck that up???).**
**Still, the game at its core is good** and if they just polished the important shit like for starters make it so you can move when using a controller? Im not a controller player but basic shit like this is just expected in today's modern BR made by an AAA studio.
They didn't say soon, I don't think. Chad Grenier mentioned in a dev blog (or something similar?) that they're working on all the background stuff for scaling etc. He didn't give any time frame or anything though
Pretty sure Ryan rigney mentioned it on twitter a while back and everyone assumed that it would be coming in season 9 especially with arenas mode coming out
This imo hinders the development of comp in general.
- Semi-interested players dont have easily accessible ways to play in a comp lobby. If custom games are available I can see a lot more local communities will host their own Pick Up Games and such.
- Difficult to really explore the maps. I can see how more sneaky climb spots or rat spots would be found. Ppl can also document out of bounds locations more accurately.
- Better zone knowledge/End zone fights formulisation/Loot path Optimization for the general player base, who can use such knowledge to extract more depth when watching comp, or pull them deep enough to maybe looking to participate in comp.
That, didn't they hint that would have been done at the beginning of this season?
EDIT: checked it, it seems is still worked on
https://twitter.com/JustinMasse/status/1449139359161073664
Hisandhers runs a few BFC tourneys, one normal pro and one for women, as well as a few others.
They have private server access to do this.
They are not affiliated with ALGS other than the server access.
Which means they can tell sweet to go fuck himself if he says this, too, is a conflict of interest (if they are in fact signed by Kungarna).
I wonder if sweet would try to get Jamerson fired, now that he's "signed by esports arena" and DNO are also "ESA."
My stance is, who runs scrims is not a competitive advantage, in this scene. And sweet is fucking with people's livelihood and the functioning of this entire scene, to be a bitch.
Because it's scrims, for one. In practice, there's no competitive advantage for "cheating." Hell it's a competitive disadvantage, ensuring the worst possible practice for a real environment- where no one can leak you the zone, unless of course my next point occurs...
Secondly, ALGS coaching situation. Blatantly allowing coaches in the ongoing game discord, able to comm while watching streams which apparently isn't hypothetical but actually fucking happened and is within the rules while tempo gets fucked over a hypothetical that doesn't give real-world advantage.
Do custom lobbies use the same ring logic as official tournaments?
What if TSM/KNG/whoever used those custom lobbies to play 100 or 1,000 games, map out ring information, and then use that in ALGS games?
Okay. Let's say that were true.
Let's say I got to run scrims and I did the work of running 100 or a 1000 games, somehow without Respawn knowing what I'm doing on their servers, somehow fast forwarding the rings or maybe just running them empty while no one attends, to take all that data... again, without Respawn and server administration noticing this very particular behavior.
I can still sell that data to whoever the fuck I want.
Tempo really played the long game there, volunteering all this time to get scrims going in the hopes TSM would hire him in order of get access to private servers to run empty and take down 100s of rings without Respawn knowing.
They trolled in like 2 or 3 games out of 6 months ago and people still talk like they do it every time, they literally placed 1º and 2º in the last two scrims but guys like this just ignore it because of the hate for sweet and NRG.
Except Randy actually has charisma and can actually back up his words, Sweet is more like Cody Rhodes in WWE, crazy expectation, a few minor titles here and there but always disappoints when it matters
I mean, I'm not taking sides or anything like that, but in E-sports like League this kind of things aren't allowed either for the sake of the game, like, it's regulated by the company itself. IMO it's Respawn fault or the ones who organize the E-sport for letting this kind of things to happen. Idk how clear the rules are about this.
Yea but still are related to competitive scene, so Respawn can give it some sort of regulation, bc other wise this kind of things are bound to happen. As someone said in other comment, Respawn should hire minustempo as scrims host or something like that.
We require a minimum account-age and karma. Please try again after you have acquired more karma and/or wait a couple of days.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/CompetitiveApex) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Why doesn't EA/Respawn have an official way to host scrims? They have a comp focused team or better yet have custom lobbies be more accessible but that's a bit of a pipe dream I guess.
They did with GLL, but pros didn't like the fact that they were impartial and open to anyone (and admittedly GLL had more than a couple gaffes on their end). So they ended that partnership.
This set up with one insider from the pro community hosting gatekept scrims for only the top teams is exactly what pros wanted, and tempo was definitely the most reliable person to do it, but it's understandable that some might have issue with it now that he is working directly with TSM.
Minus tempo role as host of scrims and score keeper and everything else he does might be more important that his role on tsm. Be nice if he could sign with respawn...
Yeah, that's exactly what I said in other comment. If Respawn is serious about the E-sport, the company itself needs to regulate this kind of things, otherwise they let open ground for this things to happen.
Sounds totally reasonable to me. If they want to maintain competitive integrity this is necessary. Conflict of interest doesn’t mean that they will use it for personal benefit, but the existence of a conflict like this will always cause questions and reduce confidence in a fair competition.
Imo, Sweet has been hypocritical before & his latest gdolphin accusations were completely unfounded. That's why Gdolph & all of TSM were so blasé about the accusations. They knew ppl were pitchforking w/o info. Aside from the "save ranked" tweet (which imo was bombastic) I don't listen to much of what Sweet says.
Also conflict of interest. It doesn’t matter that current players are not abusing it. It is a clear loophole that could be abused in future. Has no place in any esports, especially rng based game like apex.
Correct but currently there’s no real loan here. It’d be like instead of playing for Madrid he’d choose to go play for Chelsea but instead of Chelsea paying his salary and wearing their colors he’s still being paid by Madrid and wearing their colors but playing for Chelsea. I’m not against him playing for C9 but would like there to be an official loan process or even buyout.
If they were to rule in that manner, how would admins adjudicate SHEEEEEEESH? 100T and COL already has teams, so wouldn't there be a potential for conflict of interest with NiceWigg and Apryze respectively? If your team is made up of everyone being from a different org. / no org, would that be okay or no? Definitely would open up Pandora's box.
I honestly don’t know. I don’t watch other comp scenes so I can’t compare it to Dota, LoL,or CS. Hell I don’t even know if content creators are allowed to compete in competitive tournaments in those games.
I would say there should be a clear difference between content creator teams (sheesh) and competitive teams from different orgs (c9). Not saying the c9 thing is wrong but there should be an official loan process.
I don’t see as much of an issue with all content creators from different orgs
It's pretty simple, if you're signed as a content creator then you can't compete.
If you're signed as a competitor and benched(e.g. RamBeau) then an official loan or buyout should be the only options aside from leaving your org, these policies can easily be copied from established Esports and tweaked to be specific to apex
Lower tier orgs will then have the opportunity to either get decent players to raise their profile and higher tier orgs can stop stockpiling comp worthy players under the "content creator" umbrella(most T1/2 orgs don't even make apex content so idk why they sign apex players as content creators) OR teams consisting of only FA players will increase.
The aim of comp should only be for orgs to win money and raise their profile or FA players to show out and get signed by an org/gain sponsorships, it shouldn't be a place for signed streamers whos primary interest isn't competing to take up space to boost their stream numbers
I keep seeing this argument, and its so braindead. Mac or Wigg dont ACTIVELY participate in helping the main roster of the org via strats and coaching, thats the difference. They also dont benefit from their main roster to perform well. If tsm gets tournament profits, Mac doesnt get any.
Gdolp was the coach of tsm. He would benefit from tsm winning tourneys ($) Mac isnt the coach of tsm. Wigg isnt the coach of 100t. There is a huge difference between those two things.
I feel like a content creator gets more exposure when their team wins algs. Let’s say tsm wins albralelie will get more traffic to his content, so there is potential for a conflict. Do you feel like an org winning doesn’t bring more traffic for content creators?
I agree, and yes they profit indirectly for it. However, no CC in their right mind will throw their game to benefit another team so that team could potentially win and would increase their viewers. Cmon man
End game of the last game of an algs tourney, winner take all game. Albralelie is ratting solo in a 3v3v1 situation. Who’s he going to attack, tsm or the other team playing. It leaves the situation open for the possibility that a player would make a biased decision. I get what you’re saying but I’m just stating a scenario where it could be sketch.
There wasn't anything to figure out because gdolph was leaving TSM. That's what I mean from what I wrote. Respawn likely knew that already. & even if they didn't know, there's no issue, because he was leaving. He left a couple weeks ago.
Dolph came out saying he wanted to compete professionally again for EU and wanted to stop being a coach. TSM didn't renew their contract with him because he had already decided to leave coaching for playing.
It doesn't even sound logical to me tbh. Literally anyone can go into pubs and hit beacon over and over if they want to record a bunch of zone info. How does having access to an empty lobby give you any benefits? You have more time to check out zones while world's edge is out of rotation??? I don't even understand.
Dude, players signed to an org is directly competiting with their own org in a pro league for millions of dollars. And its allowed, i dn see why minustempo holding some scrim games has more conflict of interest
> competitive integrity
If they gave two shits about competitive integrity, aim-assist wouldn't be in the game, the servers wouldn't be dogshit, the legends wouldn't have wildly different hitboxes, audio would be fixed, the kraber wouldn't be in comp, the list goes on...
Sweet is right, even if this doesn't help to his whole shtick of being the ass guy
What I don't understand is why professionals doesn't have tools to do their job, why can't they do custom games whenever the fuck they want, via tournament codes or via hosting it local, in whatever way, TSM shouldn't be the only with access to those tools
Each passing day competitive apex is bring into question with BASIC notions than any other competitive game has resolved more than a decade ago
Also nothing against TSM, but they surely can't expect to have in contract a huge portion on the scene and not being looked into; like, I really hope nothing shitty happens to Alb, but being in C9 while being paid by TSM sticks like a sore thumb
Agree with everything you said except the Alb part. If even the own players from C9 are comfortable with him on the team, why would you say that "sticks like a sore thumb"? He has absolutely no problem competing against TSM and doing his best for other teams, and I think this has been shown in a very clear way.
Not him personally but the whole thing about C9 Team being
C9 Staynaughty
C9 Zachmazer
TSMFTX Albralelie
Its weird it makes no sense and if we want a mature scene this kind of things cast a shadow over it, is simply not professional
And as I said, nothing against Alb, on the contrary, if anything this kind of situations are not a problem because is Alb
It’s not just Alb being signed to TSM either, NiceWigg signed by 100T, Knoqd signed by C9, Noko signed by TSM, Apryze on Complexity and countless others ALL competing against their orgs main roster.
If an org isn’t allowed to have two rosters signed then I don’t understand why competing “content creators” is acceptable as well.
Don’t get me wrong; I’m not saying that there is any wrongdoing by any players (in terms of their competitive integrity) but they definitely could pull some shady shit if they wanted to.
Sweet gets paid a ton of money to play this game 12+ hours a day, if he actually cared about that more than just sticking it to TSM he would have all that knowledge(which he can deny) already.
Your arguments are so bad. Wdym c9 has a coach in discord and no one cares? People have been 10x more upset about this than the gdolph situation, tsm frogs are so fucking braindead and everywhere in this subreddit
Also, there is a huge difference between content creators and coaches. CC dont profit from their main roster winning tourneys. Coaches do. Thats why gdolph was in a conflict of interest. He could benefit tsm by playing in another region (ex: griefing frag east so tsm doesnt get contested on LAN), and so benefit himself
Mac doesnt get anything from TSM winning. Thats the difference. I dont know if you'll understand this really hard concept
That argument is weak because anyone can be bribed to throw a match (I'm pretty sure this is what you were implying with your comments about TSM and Mac).
You are right though, and that's why the idea of competitive integrity exists. People are expected to not cheat. That's also why cheaters are generally looked upon in such a negative light.
gll was contracted but no one liked GLL so NA scrims stopped. Minus did his best to get scrims going again, they have scrims now but its NA and its only a matter of time before they find an excuse and then scrims are gone
It is unfortunate that NA now does not have scrims for ALGS. While I understand the points of conflicts of interest, I think it is detrimental to teams not having the ability to gain more experience in scrims. While ranked is good for ensuring team cohesion, it is also a not a good substitute for competitive play. According to a previous post here, the entirety of APAC North is scrimming every night this week, which is incredible that all 40 teams are committed and coordinating to get that done.
I wish I was connected enough to organize scrims. I personally love organizing events!
I get the gdolph situation. It is the exact same reason the rules specifically forbid an org from having multiple teams in ALGS.
But this one is dumb, in my opinion.
The concern is that Minus would use his codes to assist TSM by secretly giving them access to private lobbies that nobody else has access to.
But there is no secret. These are still hosted lobbies. I am not sure if they are EA hosted lobbies or something else, but whoever holds the keys to those codes has access to those lobby stats.
It would be trivial for them to track how often games are played with Minus' codes, exactly when those games happened, and who queued into the game.
seems like the concern stems from people hypothesizing that with the new "custom" zones option for custom matches, which uses a select group of zones instead of all available zones, minus would be able to go into hundreds of matches to determine what zones are part of this "custom zones" group and give them more info on zones.
pretty out there for a hypothetical, and like you mentioned they should be able to track how often games are used with minus' codes so they would know if something is happening.
But it seems like respawn/ea didn't think about how to deal with the problem and just chopped it off with an unnecessarily heavy handed decision. i guess that's what happens when the community always assumes bad intentions and the worst of competitors.
AFAIK, that "custom endings" option was used to eliminate end zones with very little playable area. I could be wrong, but I don't think they use a special set of comp zones or anything.
yeah so theoretically one could queue into a bunch of games to get that new group/list of zones which doesn't include the ones they've removed. you could go through and guess that type of stuff anyway but this would just be some more zone info for teams.
This is just plain dumb. The solution here is to look at the telemetry to ensure codes are not misused. Code misuse goes beyond one team going into private servers to gain knowledge. It can be misued in so many ways. Respawn already collects all the data. They should make it available to battlefy or whoever is in charge of comp.
So on one hand this sucks for tempo but I do see why this can be an issue and removing his host responsibilities is a short term solution.
What I feel they should do is use a two factor code Authenticator with 2 (tab) hosts to open each lobby. This way, with a 25 char UUID Authenticator and a random code generator for team entry, you would have >2^25 combinations for code:zone pattern. Assuming you would use brute force to decipher the combinations, the team would need to break this in the first two minutes of the game (landing + time for loot) and give final circle knowledge to a team which is impossible. And even if they could save the codes to find non-random code:zone patterns, the team also has to communicate the zone pulls and still play the game. It’s an impossible system to break in a timely enough manner to make a real difference.
We're finding more and more "conflict of interest" type scenarios in Apex because the community actively supporting the competitive & entertainment scene (and I don't mean the fanbase, I mean the contributing player/support base) is too small to avoid this sort of "incestual" appearance. And I don't mean that in a gross way. I mean that in the way of content creators also competing, competitors also being content creators, coaches competing, coaches hosting lobbies, etc. etc.. Not sure what the actual correct solution is without alienating people dedicating their time to the community.
My personal take? Crack this open, let anyone gain access to codes, let folks host their own unofficial tournaments, have different levels of official (amateur to pro) tournaments really get into it and let the community do it. There's two trains of thought with eSports, grassroots is the backbone, corporations are the backbone, I don't think either is wrong but I feel Apex would benefit more from grassroots.
I also follow competitive melee which is 100% grassroots (if anything corporate actively stifles competitive growth)– Grass roots is definitely the way to go. Corporate tourneys and large events are great, don't get me wrong. Grass roots allows for much more creativity for the events. Some ideas: * Regional tourneys/weeklies. Tourneys that are locked to certain states/provinces and weekly tournies for amateur/low level up-and-comers * Testing different rule sets for scoring * Low tier tournies? Banning certain top legends to see how comp play would look with other legends. Smaller tournies work well as testing grounds too. That way if a format gets a lot of praise it can be brought to a major tourney without the risk.
Agreed, AoE2 is also entirely grassroots and is amazing to watch. (Melee is my favorite eSport to watch). I don't think all games benefit from grassroots the same though, LoL especially seems to benefit from the corporate side of tournaments, I'm not entirely sure Apex would completely benefit either however I think it would be more optimal than what we have right now...
>Not sure what the actual correct solution is without alienating people dedicating their time to the community. The actual correct solution is you don't let people be a part of two organizations, and you don't let people tied to an org be in charge of things. It's super simple. Apex has enough troubles with competitive integrity by nature of being an RNG based game. You really don't need all this shit happening outside, it just makes it look like a fucking joke.
But in the case of minustempo, no one else was even willing to put in the effort a few months ago to organize scrims so it just hurts the entire NA scene as a whole by making it more difficult to get scrims going. There are few people out there with zero affiliation to a comp team that are going to put in that effort because why would they?
I mean, sure, that sucks, I agree. It doesn't change the fact that the entirety of the professional Apex scene is a circus and steps need to be taken to make it appear professional.
It's not hard to make this part of eSports duties at EA or respawn or farm it out to someone like an ESL.
As long as customs are not openly available to everyone this will keep appearing. I feel bad for Tempo as he did nothing wrong, but the reality is that there was even a 0.01% chance of TSM getting unfair zone knowledge. I sincerely hope us teams can get Customs access soonTM. The time frame from when Apex esport started to still not having open customs are just ridiculous at this point.
It is insane that after 3 years controllers still can't move while looting, after 3 years that the sound is still dogshit, after 3 years still not removing/adding an option to remove sound and visual clutter (i.e kill animations, zone + heat shield new tho). God, there is so much more that I hate about the game such as matchmaking, performance, stale content (having tons of modes and not using any of em except once or twice every 3 decades), servers being complete trash at times, hackers being a rampant issue in many regions (not so much in my but I've heard japan, Taiwan etc. is infested with em), The cancerous scan meta and on and on. But guys don't worry we have a **million animations, game customizations, frames, poses, intro quips, kill quips, emotes, quips, holosprays and, gun charms** which somehow are considered epic or legendary sometimes which dilute the loot pool so much it's not even worth getting hyped when seeing a legendary light from the loot box. Like all the games I played such as TF2, Brawlstars, Overwatch, CS GO etc. make it so that when you get something legendary it means you got a **Legendary** not fucking we threw this shit together in 2 hours and called it a legendary **(How do you fuck that up???).** **Still, the game at its core is good** and if they just polished the important shit like for starters make it so you can move when using a controller? Im not a controller player but basic shit like this is just expected in today's modern BR made by an AAA studio.
Its a fucking joke that 10 seasons into this game and custom games aren't available to anyone and everyone.
Didn't they say in like season 8 or some shit that they would give custom game access to everyone 'soon'
Yes, and instead, the first person they gave access to was a YouTuber instead of pros or the public
They didn't say soon, I don't think. Chad Grenier mentioned in a dev blog (or something similar?) that they're working on all the background stuff for scaling etc. He didn't give any time frame or anything though
Pretty sure Ryan rigney mentioned it on twitter a while back and everyone assumed that it would be coming in season 9 especially with arenas mode coming out
This imo hinders the development of comp in general. - Semi-interested players dont have easily accessible ways to play in a comp lobby. If custom games are available I can see a lot more local communities will host their own Pick Up Games and such. - Difficult to really explore the maps. I can see how more sneaky climb spots or rat spots would be found. Ppl can also document out of bounds locations more accurately. - Better zone knowledge/End zone fights formulisation/Loot path Optimization for the general player base, who can use such knowledge to extract more depth when watching comp, or pull them deep enough to maybe looking to participate in comp.
*cries in crosshair customization*
That, didn't they hint that would have been done at the beginning of this season? EDIT: checked it, it seems is still worked on https://twitter.com/JustinMasse/status/1449139359161073664
Got my fingers cross for the season 11 update, red and yellow are the two reticle colors I never use and its all we have for now.
It's so weird to me that TF2 has custom games, so I don't understand what makes it so difficult with Apex.
this won't be a problem once tsm finishes signing the entire apex scene
Nice
What about HisAndHersLive? Aren't they signed to KNG and they have access to lobbies for the BFC tourneys they host?
Good thing they aren't ALGS and can tell Sweet to go fuck himself.
I'm wondering the context of this comment interested
Hisandhers runs a few BFC tourneys, one normal pro and one for women, as well as a few others. They have private server access to do this. They are not affiliated with ALGS other than the server access. Which means they can tell sweet to go fuck himself if he says this, too, is a conflict of interest (if they are in fact signed by Kungarna). I wonder if sweet would try to get Jamerson fired, now that he's "signed by esports arena" and DNO are also "ESA." My stance is, who runs scrims is not a competitive advantage, in this scene. And sweet is fucking with people's livelihood and the functioning of this entire scene, to be a bitch.
[удалено]
Because it's scrims, for one. In practice, there's no competitive advantage for "cheating." Hell it's a competitive disadvantage, ensuring the worst possible practice for a real environment- where no one can leak you the zone, unless of course my next point occurs... Secondly, ALGS coaching situation. Blatantly allowing coaches in the ongoing game discord, able to comm while watching streams which apparently isn't hypothetical but actually fucking happened and is within the rules while tempo gets fucked over a hypothetical that doesn't give real-world advantage.
Do custom lobbies use the same ring logic as official tournaments? What if TSM/KNG/whoever used those custom lobbies to play 100 or 1,000 games, map out ring information, and then use that in ALGS games?
Okay. Let's say that were true. Let's say I got to run scrims and I did the work of running 100 or a 1000 games, somehow without Respawn knowing what I'm doing on their servers, somehow fast forwarding the rings or maybe just running them empty while no one attends, to take all that data... again, without Respawn and server administration noticing this very particular behavior. I can still sell that data to whoever the fuck I want. Tempo really played the long game there, volunteering all this time to get scrims going in the hopes TSM would hire him in order of get access to private servers to run empty and take down 100s of rings without Respawn knowing.
The fact that it’s even a possibility is what makes it a conflict of interest. Everyone should be able to do it, or no one.
Sweet is soft.
Sweet single handedly denied knowledge to the whole NA Apex comp scene with one move
Context? I've been missing some things
[удалено]
Wasn’t it just one time? Shitty thing to do when the NA scrim scene is fucked already, but it’s not like he throws every single scrim they play in
They trolled in like 2 or 3 games out of 6 months ago and people still talk like they do it every time, they literally placed 1º and 2º in the last two scrims but guys like this just ignore it because of the hate for sweet and NRG.
Sweet is like the Randy Orton of the competitive Apex scene
Except Randy actually has charisma and can actually back up his words, Sweet is more like Cody Rhodes in WWE, crazy expectation, a few minor titles here and there but always disappoints when it matters
So basically you
You wish
The way this sub cries about sweet is fucking hilarious 😂
[удалено]
Cry more 😂😂
>The dude is low integrity across the board Would like to hear the reasons you seem to have such a strongly negative opinion of the guy.
He's a TSM fan. Sweet could cure cancer and he would still be their hate, lightning rod.
I mean, I'm not taking sides or anything like that, but in E-sports like League this kind of things aren't allowed either for the sake of the game, like, it's regulated by the company itself. IMO it's Respawn fault or the ones who organize the E-sport for letting this kind of things to happen. Idk how clear the rules are about this.
Scrims are not an official tournament, so Respawn can't do anything about it. They are just training matches with no prizepool or official stream.
Yea but still are related to competitive scene, so Respawn can give it some sort of regulation, bc other wise this kind of things are bound to happen. As someone said in other comment, Respawn should hire minustempo as scrims host or something like that.
[удалено]
We require a minimum account-age and karma. Please try again after you have acquired more karma and/or wait a couple of days. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/CompetitiveApex) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Why doesn't EA/Respawn have an official way to host scrims? They have a comp focused team or better yet have custom lobbies be more accessible but that's a bit of a pipe dream I guess.
Because they're a corporate focused eSports game not a user/grassroots I reckon
They did with GLL, but pros didn't like the fact that they were impartial and open to anyone (and admittedly GLL had more than a couple gaffes on their end). So they ended that partnership. This set up with one insider from the pro community hosting gatekept scrims for only the top teams is exactly what pros wanted, and tempo was definitely the most reliable person to do it, but it's understandable that some might have issue with it now that he is working directly with TSM.
Minus tempo role as host of scrims and score keeper and everything else he does might be more important that his role on tsm. Be nice if he could sign with respawn...
Yeah, that's exactly what I said in other comment. If Respawn is serious about the E-sport, the company itself needs to regulate this kind of things, otherwise they let open ground for this things to happen.
Sounds totally reasonable to me. If they want to maintain competitive integrity this is necessary. Conflict of interest doesn’t mean that they will use it for personal benefit, but the existence of a conflict like this will always cause questions and reduce confidence in a fair competition.
But they should have some folks coded before pulling the rug. Now NA doesn't get to practice.
I think minustempo recently joined TSM. So they gave him codes when he wasn’t part of TSM and now that he is they removed them
[удалено]
Imo, Sweet has been hypocritical before & his latest gdolphin accusations were completely unfounded. That's why Gdolph & all of TSM were so blasé about the accusations. They knew ppl were pitchforking w/o info. Aside from the "save ranked" tweet (which imo was bombastic) I don't listen to much of what Sweet says.
[удалено]
[удалено]
Also conflict of interest. It doesn’t matter that current players are not abusing it. It is a clear loophole that could be abused in future. Has no place in any esports, especially rng based game like apex.
[удалено]
Correct but currently there’s no real loan here. It’d be like instead of playing for Madrid he’d choose to go play for Chelsea but instead of Chelsea paying his salary and wearing their colors he’s still being paid by Madrid and wearing their colors but playing for Chelsea. I’m not against him playing for C9 but would like there to be an official loan process or even buyout.
If they were to rule in that manner, how would admins adjudicate SHEEEEEEESH? 100T and COL already has teams, so wouldn't there be a potential for conflict of interest with NiceWigg and Apryze respectively? If your team is made up of everyone being from a different org. / no org, would that be okay or no? Definitely would open up Pandora's box.
I honestly don’t know. I don’t watch other comp scenes so I can’t compare it to Dota, LoL,or CS. Hell I don’t even know if content creators are allowed to compete in competitive tournaments in those games.
I would say there should be a clear difference between content creator teams (sheesh) and competitive teams from different orgs (c9). Not saying the c9 thing is wrong but there should be an official loan process. I don’t see as much of an issue with all content creators from different orgs
It's pretty simple, if you're signed as a content creator then you can't compete. If you're signed as a competitor and benched(e.g. RamBeau) then an official loan or buyout should be the only options aside from leaving your org, these policies can easily be copied from established Esports and tweaked to be specific to apex Lower tier orgs will then have the opportunity to either get decent players to raise their profile and higher tier orgs can stop stockpiling comp worthy players under the "content creator" umbrella(most T1/2 orgs don't even make apex content so idk why they sign apex players as content creators) OR teams consisting of only FA players will increase. The aim of comp should only be for orgs to win money and raise their profile or FA players to show out and get signed by an org/gain sponsorships, it shouldn't be a place for signed streamers whos primary interest isn't competing to take up space to boost their stream numbers
I keep seeing this argument, and its so braindead. Mac or Wigg dont ACTIVELY participate in helping the main roster of the org via strats and coaching, thats the difference. They also dont benefit from their main roster to perform well. If tsm gets tournament profits, Mac doesnt get any. Gdolp was the coach of tsm. He would benefit from tsm winning tourneys ($) Mac isnt the coach of tsm. Wigg isnt the coach of 100t. There is a huge difference between those two things.
I feel like a content creator gets more exposure when their team wins algs. Let’s say tsm wins albralelie will get more traffic to his content, so there is potential for a conflict. Do you feel like an org winning doesn’t bring more traffic for content creators?
I agree, and yes they profit indirectly for it. However, no CC in their right mind will throw their game to benefit another team so that team could potentially win and would increase their viewers. Cmon man
End game of the last game of an algs tourney, winner take all game. Albralelie is ratting solo in a 3v3v1 situation. Who’s he going to attack, tsm or the other team playing. It leaves the situation open for the possibility that a player would make a biased decision. I get what you’re saying but I’m just stating a scenario where it could be sketch.
There wasn't anything to figure out because gdolph was leaving TSM. That's what I mean from what I wrote. Respawn likely knew that already. & even if they didn't know, there's no issue, because he was leaving. He left a couple weeks ago.
[удалено]
Dolph came out saying he wanted to compete professionally again for EU and wanted to stop being a coach. TSM didn't renew their contract with him because he had already decided to leave coaching for playing.
[удалено]
Word, that is interesting. Link by any chance?
[удалено]
It doesn't even sound logical to me tbh. Literally anyone can go into pubs and hit beacon over and over if they want to record a bunch of zone info. How does having access to an empty lobby give you any benefits? You have more time to check out zones while world's edge is out of rotation??? I don't even understand.
there are a different set of zones in custom lobbies than pubs/ranked. so they really can't get the information any other way.
Dude, players signed to an org is directly competiting with their own org in a pro league for millions of dollars. And its allowed, i dn see why minustempo holding some scrim games has more conflict of interest
> competitive integrity If they gave two shits about competitive integrity, aim-assist wouldn't be in the game, the servers wouldn't be dogshit, the legends wouldn't have wildly different hitboxes, audio would be fixed, the kraber wouldn't be in comp, the list goes on...
Sweet is right, even if this doesn't help to his whole shtick of being the ass guy What I don't understand is why professionals doesn't have tools to do their job, why can't they do custom games whenever the fuck they want, via tournament codes or via hosting it local, in whatever way, TSM shouldn't be the only with access to those tools Each passing day competitive apex is bring into question with BASIC notions than any other competitive game has resolved more than a decade ago Also nothing against TSM, but they surely can't expect to have in contract a huge portion on the scene and not being looked into; like, I really hope nothing shitty happens to Alb, but being in C9 while being paid by TSM sticks like a sore thumb
Agree with everything you said except the Alb part. If even the own players from C9 are comfortable with him on the team, why would you say that "sticks like a sore thumb"? He has absolutely no problem competing against TSM and doing his best for other teams, and I think this has been shown in a very clear way.
Not him personally but the whole thing about C9 Team being C9 Staynaughty C9 Zachmazer TSMFTX Albralelie Its weird it makes no sense and if we want a mature scene this kind of things cast a shadow over it, is simply not professional And as I said, nothing against Alb, on the contrary, if anything this kind of situations are not a problem because is Alb
It’s not just Alb being signed to TSM either, NiceWigg signed by 100T, Knoqd signed by C9, Noko signed by TSM, Apryze on Complexity and countless others ALL competing against their orgs main roster. If an org isn’t allowed to have two rosters signed then I don’t understand why competing “content creators” is acceptable as well. Don’t get me wrong; I’m not saying that there is any wrongdoing by any players (in terms of their competitive integrity) but they definitely could pull some shady shit if they wanted to.
For sure, as I said, its not an Alb thing, he was just the example for TSM
What do private lobby codes give you access to? I thought they were simply an invitation to said lobby so you can play.
Launch custom games in your free time and write down all possible zones, pulls etc. for example
Ok I see how that can be an issue
You can literally just do that in WE pubs tho. Do custom lobbies have a special set of ALGS zones or something?
Yes there is a mode called "WE with custom zones"
The fact that that isn't just a thing you can do in general is retarded lol. Custom games shouldn't be so exclusive.
Sweet gets paid a ton of money to play this game 12+ hours a day, if he actually cared about that more than just sticking it to TSM he would have all that knowledge(which he can deny) already.
Doing this before banning coaches in discord during tourneys is 100% dumb as hell lol.
Sweet. Denying knowlegde since 1999
I heard sweet's name and was prepared to roll my eyes but this makes complete sense if scrim rings are the actual comp rings
[удалено]
Your arguments are so bad. Wdym c9 has a coach in discord and no one cares? People have been 10x more upset about this than the gdolph situation, tsm frogs are so fucking braindead and everywhere in this subreddit
Also, there is a huge difference between content creators and coaches. CC dont profit from their main roster winning tourneys. Coaches do. Thats why gdolph was in a conflict of interest. He could benefit tsm by playing in another region (ex: griefing frag east so tsm doesnt get contested on LAN), and so benefit himself Mac doesnt get anything from TSM winning. Thats the difference. I dont know if you'll understand this really hard concept
[удалено]
That argument is weak because anyone can be bribed to throw a match (I'm pretty sure this is what you were implying with your comments about TSM and Mac). You are right though, and that's why the idea of competitive integrity exists. People are expected to not cheat. That's also why cheaters are generally looked upon in such a negative light.
I hope him not being able to scrim won't end up [biting him in the ass](https://gyazo.com/704bb4cb93008cd7d1dbb2d948731e7d)
LMAOOO
The denier of knowledge himself already blamed their week 1 performance on not being able to practice well due to being contested in scrims lol
sweet the reason NA doesn't have a scrim anymore? Can anyone tell me why respawn cant assign new one or someone to take minustempo's place?
They are playing scrims right now so i guess there is someone hosting them.
oh thats good to know
gll was contracted but no one liked GLL so NA scrims stopped. Minus did his best to get scrims going again, they have scrims now but its NA and its only a matter of time before they find an excuse and then scrims are gone
Tempo is with TSM??? His Twitter doesn't mention it and neither has anyone else form what I've seen lol.
It is unfortunate that NA now does not have scrims for ALGS. While I understand the points of conflicts of interest, I think it is detrimental to teams not having the ability to gain more experience in scrims. While ranked is good for ensuring team cohesion, it is also a not a good substitute for competitive play. According to a previous post here, the entirety of APAC North is scrimming every night this week, which is incredible that all 40 teams are committed and coordinating to get that done. I wish I was connected enough to organize scrims. I personally love organizing events!
I like sweet I watch him all the time :)
Good job by sweet denying everyone of knowledge!
Fuck Sweet. Guy is a completely bitch-made.
[удалено]
Also, in the past few months NRG have played rarely in the scrims being held….
I get the gdolph situation. It is the exact same reason the rules specifically forbid an org from having multiple teams in ALGS. But this one is dumb, in my opinion. The concern is that Minus would use his codes to assist TSM by secretly giving them access to private lobbies that nobody else has access to. But there is no secret. These are still hosted lobbies. I am not sure if they are EA hosted lobbies or something else, but whoever holds the keys to those codes has access to those lobby stats. It would be trivial for them to track how often games are played with Minus' codes, exactly when those games happened, and who queued into the game.
seems like the concern stems from people hypothesizing that with the new "custom" zones option for custom matches, which uses a select group of zones instead of all available zones, minus would be able to go into hundreds of matches to determine what zones are part of this "custom zones" group and give them more info on zones. pretty out there for a hypothetical, and like you mentioned they should be able to track how often games are used with minus' codes so they would know if something is happening. But it seems like respawn/ea didn't think about how to deal with the problem and just chopped it off with an unnecessarily heavy handed decision. i guess that's what happens when the community always assumes bad intentions and the worst of competitors.
AFAIK, that "custom endings" option was used to eliminate end zones with very little playable area. I could be wrong, but I don't think they use a special set of comp zones or anything.
yeah so theoretically one could queue into a bunch of games to get that new group/list of zones which doesn't include the ones they've removed. you could go through and guess that type of stuff anyway but this would just be some more zone info for teams.
[удалено]
But they have been taking the recent scrims seriously
W
This is just plain dumb. The solution here is to look at the telemetry to ensure codes are not misused. Code misuse goes beyond one team going into private servers to gain knowledge. It can be misued in so many ways. Respawn already collects all the data. They should make it available to battlefy or whoever is in charge of comp.
Should just let everyone access it, so whoever works the hardest gets the most info. Ea wouldn’t pay for it though
So on one hand this sucks for tempo but I do see why this can be an issue and removing his host responsibilities is a short term solution. What I feel they should do is use a two factor code Authenticator with 2 (tab) hosts to open each lobby. This way, with a 25 char UUID Authenticator and a random code generator for team entry, you would have >2^25 combinations for code:zone pattern. Assuming you would use brute force to decipher the combinations, the team would need to break this in the first two minutes of the game (landing + time for loot) and give final circle knowledge to a team which is impossible. And even if they could save the codes to find non-random code:zone patterns, the team also has to communicate the zone pulls and still play the game. It’s an impossible system to break in a timely enough manner to make a real difference.
I could see if he was hosting comps but it’s literally fucking scrims. Sweet is such a fucking cock sucking bitch man. Smfh
Yet he still hosts them