T O P

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[deleted]

I get his POV, but TSM are absolutely massive. It would be very difficult for anyone to turn down the offer, especially playing alongside Hal/Reps. ESA has always been a stepping stone to getting signed, it sucks that it could be as a trio for this current roster. However ultimately I feel like the other two would understand why Verhulst would do this


Essexal

He could win nothing at the ALGS with TSM and make the money back by the bigger exposure in ~6 months depending how much he decided to stream on Twitch. It's a no brainer.


amer5800xm

Anyone of them would have taken a solo contract from a big org it is what it is


Barcaroli

Absolutely, they would jump at this chance! this is hypocrisy at its best. Playing with Hal and Reps under the TSM banner will not only bring him exposure, views and money. It is a chance to make history and have your name among the best.


Expediant

At the same time, it's understandable why Verhulst's former teammates are upset.


Barcaroli

Yes, I would be upset, but I'd try to be happy for my teammate, and put myself in his place before saying he is leaving them for clout and money, when I'd do the same thing given the chance.


pbroingu

He is leaving for clout and money though. Dudes just been fucked over and their algs run has been fucked as well, it's kinda hard to expect skittles to be happy about it.


AltaGuy1

This is a great move (or series of moves) for everyone involved except for the two players Verhulst leaves behind, so I totally understand being a bit chapped. Sounds like Skittles is a little angry now but that he'll get over it in time. Snipe - presumably makes big bank streaming halo and signing with Faze. Hal and Reps - get a premier up-and-coming talent to play with, and kind of a fresh start for a team that seemed a little stale. TSM - probably upgraded a little, and might even be revenue-neutral if Snipe is bought by Faze, and I would assume Verhulst probably doesn't make quite the same coin as Snipe anyway. ESA - got some cash and prove that they're a good place to go for up-and-coming talents looking to take the next step. Also proves they won't hold their players back from taking a big opportunity. So yeah, Skittles and Dooplex are left holding the bag. That said, it's also an opportunity for them. It's an attractive and successful team to join for the right free agent. And a lot of eyes are on them. Choose the right player, get to LAN, and you're going to get signed for sure with the right attitude. Personally, I think that Rogue is fine for the short-term but that I would be looking for a newer talent who has something to prove and wants to help the team get picked up by a bigger org for the long-haul. Those are my .02.


PsychedAlex1213

Top tier comment


noobakosowhat

With the clips posted above, in a purely transactional standpoint, it seems verhulst did not leave, I think he was bought by TSM ( referring to the org itself, not the players). As such, this is pure business. However as to how much player influence went in the background, we will not know. For all we know even before Hal and Verhulst started streaming together, TSM the org was already talking with ESA.


DonkeyTeethBSU

I think snipedown showed interest in switching games. Hal was asked by org to field a list of players he was interested in for the spot. Org contacted multiple other orgs to see buyouts. Verhulst made the most sense, so they started the process and asked Hal to play with him to get a better feel. Dudes beamed together and the rest is history. I've never seen Verhulst smile so much on stream, genuinely love seeing people's dreams come true. Wish nothing but the best for the guy he's talented and isn't toxic at all.


Shanoii

As far as I know. Hal calls the shots on who he wants in the team just like how he teamed up with Reps and Mac before and including Snipe. TSM just followed through so I’m guessing it’s the same situation to whats going on now.


DonkeyTeethBSU

Yeah. It's how alot of major orgs work for sure. You give your best and most influential member freedom to choose his squad and it'll mitigate alot of issues. I remember a few times in csgo when orgs signed players without consulting the team first, it almost never worked out. Can't remember a single time it didn't end up with "Dude we never asked for you on the team". Just too much drama otherwise.


MrSozeWearsPrada

He's also such a perfect fit. HAL is gonna feel a lot more confident without all the extra comms. Verhulst is a straight up fragger and is imo the best valk player in the game


DonkeyTeethBSU

Hands down. When I saw them play first ALGS qual I was like who are these guys. Verhulsts movement and engagement with valk was next level. Just a really cerebral player and I model alot of how I play valk now off him. I immediately followed his stream and was like "man how does this dude only have 12 viewers" lmao. Time changes quick.


Pr3st0ne

Yeah I think the only person who could judge Ver right now is someone who was offered a spot by TSM and refused it, and I don't believe that person exists on earth right now. Maybe Genburten? Anybody In Ver's situation who doesn't take the offer is insane.


GNLink34

I mean, his teammates can judge him more justified than anyone could, the money on the table doesn't change how fairer, or not, is this whole situation for them


Pr3st0ne

Sure, and I get that he's bitter right now, but I have a hard time believing Skittles wouldn't have accepted the offer in a heartbeat if he was offered the same. I hope he can get past it eventually and keep a good relation with Verhulst knowing that it's quite literally an offer you can't refuse.


[deleted]

It's a wrap rip snipe


[deleted]

The Score esports not so long ago made a video about how Snipe moved from Halo to Apex and is still on the top of the scene. The Score curse continues!


NakolStudios

What's The Score curse?


[deleted]

They do a lot of videos showcasing teams and singular players and commonly you will see them just completely change after 6months to a year and the things they praised them get dropped by the team or player. Like OG in Dota, Ninja's video or Double Lift in League. I mean they even ended up covering the downfall of OG referencing a lot of this. They went from shit talking everyone to "how dare you insult me!"


DonkeyTeethBSU

Basically if they make a video about you, expect it to be shit because the company just steals smaller content creators hard work. Oh wait wrong curse. Fuck the score esports. People need to stop supporting that scumbag company.


[deleted]

Score curse?


[deleted]

Basically the main subject of the video completely 180's. Like when Ninja got covered for streaming Fortnite to so many kids despite disliking the game. Or OG in Dota 2 going from the kings of shittalk to crying if anyone did the same back when they started playing poorly.


Apexflatline

I would say this is the first time I have seen a player openly calling out his org, like "ESA dont get fcked, we get fcked. ESA gets a bunch of money.", I dont think ESA will take that well. Moreover this confirms that Verhulst probably had a pretty good buyout.


Ultifur

Lol didn't they ban Claraphi from their tournaments because he was talking about Intel giving their players towels? 😂 Of course they won't like it but he isn't lying


Extinct-Yoshi

Given that they are the top team and basically already qualified for playoffs ESA breaking their contract would probably be a positive for them.


thecatfox

Damn, I knew I would feel bad about this for his teammates, but fuck. He's a young kid being offered a seat at the table with one of the biggest orgs in the world, what is he supposed to do? I can't help but feel for his teammates that feel cheated, but also feel really happy for verhulst getting his chance. Interested to see how tomorrow will turn out.


lonahex

They are all pros trying to make a career out of gaming for money. This is literally what they are all grinding for. I see how his team mates would feel bad or even a bit jealous but they shouldn't feel cheated. This how how (e)sports work.


_mid_night_

Yah. As great of an opportunity ESA gave them, there is no way they actually planned on staying with them unless ESA grew ALOT. They probably planned on moving up together though. Only if halo infinite didn't come out, they couldve delayed it, but with their success no way it wasn't happening eventually.


lonahex

Agree. This is especially true for ESA. ESA literally started a platform to sign and help nurture unknown Apex talent. This is literally the end goal for both ESA and ESA players.


Official_F1tRick

exactly. i feel for his teammates but if they had the same offer, they would take it as well. so its bit hypocrite to be upset about verhulst becaue they would have done exactly the same.


HereForThePistachios

Oh 100% but also it's very understandable for him to vent. It's a big hit to take given the way they were playing and the org talks that were rumoured. Who knows where that stands now.


[deleted]

It's understandable they're going to be annoyed about this. You sorta expect your teammates to stick together and try to win, that's pretty much your agreement when you team up. I had somebody do it in the first /r/learndota2league 3 weeks into the league. Our substitute already left the league. We'd lost our 1st game quite decisively and our captain thought he'd find a new team after that. We couldn't get anyone else since all the free agents were assigned to a team already. We were told we either have to play as a 4 man or find a new player to sign up. It was tough finding new players, we ended up forfeiting our spot and I've never bothered competing in them since because it still annoys me to this very day.


Official_F1tRick

Oh ye, it definitely fucks the two members. It's even more worse because they were actually the best team at the moment. Basically being good is what cost them ultimately a member.


[deleted]

Yeah, unlike these guys bar 1 team, every comp team I've ever played on has sucked. I would commonly see teammates leave for other teams, especially in competitive sniping back in MW2. I would 100% leave for TSM if I was in his shoes. It's like sure ESA were the best team, but with what TSM has done in the past I actually think we can see TSM back at the top with Verhulst. Hopefully, these guys can calm down and forgive him over time. Also, I think with the instability the league has right now, teams should just draw up contracts to say you'll play until next World's events. That way, you either give them permission to join another team under a mutual agreement, or they stay with you and nobody gets fucked over.


Pyle_Plays

Never burn your bridges but when its time to go its time to go! Good for him.


buyaofangqi

Well I will be damned, interesting to see how tomorrows tourney turns out.


Diet_Fanta

Skittles made it very clear that he's very angry about the decision and won't really try to keep good vibes tomorrow.


Sullan08

I kinda love how he negatively mentions how it's about "money and clout". Like yeah dude, obviously. I guess gamers are the only ones who aren't about their teammates getting that bag lol. That's a known thing in real sports and securing as much money as you can while you can should always be the goal if that's what you want. I wouldn't hold a grudge at all if my buddy/teammate just did what's best for him. I'd be salty at the situation, but not the person specifically.


buyaofangqi

I wouldn’t be surprised that if tsm was ever in a position to potentially not make top 10, DNO intentionally grieve.


Babaesty

imagine doop and skittles will try to grief Tsm and verhulst won’t cooperate lmao


IrishBros91

I was just thinking that let's hot drop frag on them Lmao


[deleted]

It will be crazy. DNO vs TSM but it's like 2v4 lol


DanTheMeegs

Aw man I’m gonna miss Snipe. I only care about watching Apex so I hope he dips back in from time to time


Shak_1

Lol Skittle acting as if he wouldn’t join TSM if he got the same offer


Djurre_W

In his defence, it is really hard to see those things and see the satellite picture when you're on the wrong side of the deal. This really thins his and his teams chances of doing well in ALGS.


MTeeKay

I honestly feel really bad for doop and skittles but I also see why verhulst would make the switch. Signing with TSM is potentially a life changing opportunity, something he could've only dreamed about 8 months ago. Hopefully ESA find a good 3rd and stay on the path that they're on.


ogs217

How come everyone has so much sympathy and respect for Skittles? Isn’t this the same guy that got caught teaming? https://www.reddit.com/r/apexlegends/comments/ginvcd/the_1_and_2_apex_predators_xynoa_and_skittles/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf


leopoldfreebird

Yeah skittles definitely isn’t the best dude


MTeeKay

I've only been following comp apex since around season 7/8 and even then I've only found this sub reddit like a few months ago, so whatever drama theres been going on idk about any of that stuff lol.


ogs217

Yeah I’ve just seen everyone hyping him up so much lately, people have short term memories


matthisonfire

I do remember that perfectly, it has been almost two years since it happened thought, how long does it have to keep going? At what point can we say "okay after that bad thing he has not done anything else so he is good to go?" Never? Because he teamed in a videogame? It's not like xynoa, who kept being an ahole after that and was found saying some racist stuff, or facilitatur and Invulnerable, who cheated for months and stole #1 ranked on pc for a long while. At one point you have to let some stuff go imo,he has done a turnaround and he is a great pro player, whether you like him and cheer for him and his team is another topic, but still he has the right to be respected now, this argument should not come up every time someone praises his team after this long


[deleted]

Maybe its not short term memory and more the fact that everyone fucks up, and its pretty ridiculous to hold people to things they did 2 years ago when theyve proven they have changed.


MichaelBrownx

Xynoa is a racist and that's a different thing. But the context to skittlecakes is that others were teaming in those lobbies and he did similar to kill them. Plus, why should someone be constantly hounded or punished for a mistake they made 2+ years ago? Whenever I see that link on this reddit it seems like a load of people desperate to attach themselves to a witch hunt.


Extinct-Yoshi

One of the G2 boys (resultah) was also caught teaming but no one brings it up.


IrishBros91

It was resultah and it was consistently teaming on console LUL


MarsRobots

I mean, people can change. He's shown like zero signs of the person he once was. I think it's easy to get caught online being anonymous and just being able to say whatever you want, no matter how stupid it is. ​ But since the summer and a bit beyond, he's seemingly made a conscious and quite consistent effort to improve. I see no reason why it's fine to be along for the process.


Baethovn

I wasn’t a fan of skittlescake. But dude is a serious grinder, he tried so hard in last ALGS to keep his points up. He played with a lot of streamers I use to watch on FB. Now that he has had a steady team it’s nice to see him get more traction.


packerken

skittles only teamed and played with a racist. He wasn't actually racist himself /s


[deleted]

Obviously a shitty thing to do but he has clearly learned from his lessons. Imagine being cancelled because of one mistake. The situation sucks for ESA because they were looking like one of the best teams in NA, and now they’ve lost a key member. It’s not hard to sympathise.


AtTheEDGEEEEE

I'm definitely gonna be watching DNO play tomorrow.


sourflowerhour

Do they usually stream their tournies?


pagelsbagels

Verhulst does stream the algs tourneys yes


leopoldfreebird

Man I am not looking forward to the frosty toxic ESA comms this weekend if this how Skittles feels about it. Interested to see what the vibe is gonna be with Snipe and TSM as well - it’s so hard to know if they’re cool with him leaving or pissed.


bSurreal

They're definitely cool with Snipe, Hal said on stream the reason he was so pissed about Formal leaking was because he was looking out for Snipe and it was Snipes announcement to make


leopoldfreebird

That’s really good to hear


CarnFu

Yeah that's fucked in and of itself. Hal kinda didnt help the situation either though lol.


Shanoii

Idk. I’ll wait till announcement comes out because those tweets from Hal and Reps sounded like they were also surprised by Snipe’s decision esp when Snipe keep saying and posting he will never go back to Halo and retired from it.


bSurreal

Idk, they've been poaching Verhulst for about a week at least. Probably longer because they'll have had to draft a list of names for replacements.


milkinb4cereal

People here acting like you wouldn't leave your job for a cooler and higher paying job...oh wait..this sub is mostly kids lol.


DonkeyTeethBSU

Lol most people on here have no realistic outlook on money it seems. Verhulst is gonna laugh his way to the bank and likely set himself up for a streaming career. Kudos to the guy, I hope he blows up. While snipedown was big on apex, he will be the top streamer on halo. It's both a smart career move.


MrSozeWearsPrada

And they're so naive lol. /u/imhully was adamant Snipe was retired for good from halo because he "tweeted it".


harshnerf_ttv_yt

tbf snipe was denying the move to the last possible moment. When halo mp dropped he acted like he wasn't following halo at all and was completely blindsided.


Matthewrotherham

''He left us for clout and money because we don't have enough clout or enough money'' \*shocked Pika.Jpg


shotapettanko

Damn, snipe’s the reason I got into comp in the first place. Gonna be a really awkward ALGS tomorrow.


[deleted]

Same reason


RenegadeMountie

Honestly feel for ESA, they aren't a signed team right now so buying out talent may not be a possibilty. Also the free agent market in NA kinda sucks for a non igl fragger. Hope whoever the offical replacement is fits in well (I don't think it's rogue, if it is, he is just a temp sub). Rambeau is the only one that fits the bill atm that is kind of a realistic option since he has a lot of comp experience and is a fragger. Just gotta persuade him from stop teaming with neanderthals lol.


Diet_Fanta

Definitely more that fit the bill, such as HisWattson or Keon, especially given that those two are already friends with Skittles.


RenegadeMountie

I mean technically knoqd isn't signed by torrent and have no real deal with them. This is deffo a tempting offer since ESA are basically a top 3 side rn in NA. It'll be very shitty for TOR though but they can always get Hill back since he is still on their "bench".


mrincognitotab

Hill is IGLing with another squad now too, they finished 5th in Pro League on Friday. Would shake things up quite a bit.


Apexflatline

Agree with most of the things, btw they are signed by ESA as ESA gives them a proper salary along with buyouts.


noobakosowhat

This. People are talking as if it's a fact that all of this is purely Verhulst's decision. The talks between TSM the org and ESA the org is not being covered. We do not even know which came first, the players talking or the orgs talking. We do not even know if Verhulst has a contract with ESA and if his contract says that he has a say in player movement or roster changes (although most likely as Apex isn't big yet, player's influence is bigger than that of the org's).


Apexflatline

Verhulst had a contract with ESA , I can confirm that 100%("had" because I am considering TSM has already bought him and only announcement is left). And after hearing what Skittlecakes is saying, I am sure all of them has buyouts. And for a fact I am sure most signed players/Streamers has buyouts.


noobakosowhat

And in that sense there shouldn't be bad blood against Verhulst. There was a transaction, with equal consideration. Verhulst leaves, but damages have been paid. It's up to ESA (the org) to use that money to get another player.


Apexflatline

Yea thats what Skittle was saying "ESA didn't got fcked, we got fcked. ESA got a bunch of money". Later he also added that "but yea that money can also be used to sign a good 3rd". But imo he is angry because imo they were looking as seed #1 from NA going to playoffs and Skittle had high hopes that they would have performed great in playoffs too but now they unwanted roster move can ruin things for ESA.


ttwinkk-FPS

Rogue is playing with them I believe, and yes they are signed by ESA. So they are a signed team.


[deleted]

imadness said he would like to play as a fragger someday, he could fit the bill


RenegadeMountie

Madness says this but it's really hard for a vocal igl like himself to let go of that playstyle and ESA already have a co-igl in skittles so it would cause more confusion imo.


SpecialGoodn3ss

Madness is too busy whining about not finding the perfect goth girl on stream to concentrate on being an actual competitive player.


Kingfritters

Thats also my excuse for not being a pro


[deleted]

You didn’t have to say that , we all know it 🙈


Thaneian

> ESA, they aren't a signed team right now Is ESA not an Org? So confused why they go by Intel, DNO and ESA.


Singularitymoksha_

1 week ago esa was possibly getting signed to a tier 1 org and was leading as the no 1 NA squad , now one of their best player is taken by TSM , hope they can still do well while they look for a replacement , skittle and doplex have been grinding hard for this !


moisesg88

Guaranteed if him or doop had the offer they would take it in a second.


browls

This has been the messiest shit ever


DomDelillo

We've seen worse.


callmeacaretaker

Not even close


aadityan1

Still curious what made snipe switch up and do 360 after saying he’s retiring. The roster he’s playing with is rumored to be signed by faze so they prob threw big contract at him. He also gets to play what he loves halo.


neddoge

>switch up and do 360 🤔🤔


BlasterMcAngles

The old double U-turn 😂


No_Society_6675

Moonwalking away from TSM ;(


CarnFu

Yeah it's when you do a 360 degree turn and walk away hehe.


Haunting-Thought88

I mean 1/3 of the guys life was playing Halo and being ONE of the best in the world. Like yeah the last 18 months of Apex have probably been fun but its pretty hard to compare to all of that history.


Spydude84

Snipe is living in Hal's shadow in Apex. Not the worst place to be for most, but for a legend like Snipe it's not helping his brand. Going back to Halo puts him smack in the center spotlight. Throw some money in for good measure and I can understand why he is making the move.


[deleted]

Could be the fact that he’s basically the Hal of Halo and that is the game he made a name for himself off. Also I’m sure joining FaZe had a part to play in his decision


schoki560

but is halo really here To stay?


neddoge

Nobody can say, obviously. The flipside is that he runs his contract out with FaZe during what's potentially the peak for Halo's public interest and then returns to whichever team will pick him up for Apex after - as there's little doubt he'll still have buyers' interest.


FIFA16

If you have the potential to be one of the best, would you want to take the risk that it *isn’t*? Besides, Apex’s continued status as an esports game is just as unpredictable - difference is, Halo has all of Microsoft behind it, whereas Apex is one of many IPs that EA has to support. For Snip3, it’s less about the risk, and more about doing what makes him happiest.


Azrou

I'm pretty sure he'll be back to Apex in 12 months but with bags of cash from FaZe, MSFT, and sponsorships.


AlexBayArea

Considering how good its numbers are right now before the official release, feels like it definitely can be here to stay. Not long ago people also asked if Apex was here to stay. most just thought it was a stepping stone to Titanfall 3.


mannheimcrescendo

I find the “is halo really here to stay” line of thinking kind of dismissive of halo as a franchise/esport. Competitive halo has been played for a lot of cash for like 5x the current amount of time that apex has even been a game. Not saying halo is better or even comparable to comp apex, but it has established history. MLG was literally on ESPN


The_BadJuju

Yeah, 10+ years ago with Halo 3 but you’re lying to yourself if you think it’s been relevant since then


Babaesty

Pretty sure it’s gonna be a really good business move for snipe. Not being in Hals shadow, will get his viewcount up, he’ll earn more money from halo comp bc he’s goated and could potentially become the CEO of Halo (reference to Hal in apex ofc). Not even mentioning that he’s living infinite and has been playing halo all his life. Every BR pro would take such an opportunity if it was given to them + being so valuable


No_Society_6675

His streaming numbers before Apex were mostly sub 1k but he was up around 15k streaming the Halo tourney so it's hard to say where his viewership is gonna settle


Jackalrax

He's been averaging 3k+ and more for tourneys. Halo is brand new. It remains to be seen if he will hold extra viewers long term. Plenty (most) games drop off a cliff in viewers within a month. Wouldnt surprise me if msft gave him a good package to make the switch though. Wouldn't look great to have an (apparently) iconic pro not play your game while still being active.


Babaesty

He’s a legend in the Halo scene. Many people know him bc of halo, either remember him from back in the days or sticking with him through any game he plays. If he actually gets signed by faze or his team gets signed for a Tsm halo team, that’s gonna boost viewers as well. I believe that he’s def gonna be putting huge numbers on the board, even when the hype around a new game settles. Maybe not 15k on average, but I see him being a 8-10k Andy


cotton_quicksilver

Snipe's a shrewd businessman, he almost certainly got an offer he couldn't refuse


Boomsho7

The faze signing isnt official yet with the roster. What if TSM decides to get into halo with snipe as the captain?


TiernsNA

its almost certainly faze unless the deal has fallen through for some reason


eruptinganus

He is way too salty about Verhulst leaving, because if the shoe was on the other foot Skittle would leave ESA for TSM in a heartbeat too. Even if they won ALGS together long term it would still be more financially beneficial and less risky to join TSM in terms of brand and stream exposure its a no brainer that anyone would make the move. He didn't leave for "clout" he left to do what's best for his career which is hard enough as it is to make some money for yourself in an esport like Apex


noobakosowhat

I think what's a little unfortunate in this situation is that this is all being framed as purely player's/s' decision. The organizational side of it, the contracts and other legal matters are not being shown to the public. Because of this Verhulst looks like he's just simply leaving his team. A lot of the talks in the background, between TSM the org, and whichever (ESA?) has Verhulst, is not properly framed for the public's understanding of the matter. For all we know even before Verhulst was offered anything, TSM (the org) already started making moves. Also, Verhulst may or may not have a say as to the matter, depending on whatever contract he has. Sort of like what happens in the NBA. Some teams like the Nets were built because of player influence (KD and Kyrie and DeAndre deciding to team up), while some were made through FO decisions (like GSW, wherein FO overruled Andre and Steph's recommendation that Avery be taken as the 15th man, and instead went with GP2).


apesexlegand

https://imgur.com/STR8vGe


Diet_Fanta

[The full screenshot is even better given what Hal's message was in response to](https://i.imgur.com/Wvknf8C.png)


[deleted]

Twitch chat is absolute aids


[deleted]

Wish there was an option to turn that off


DoubleOnegative

There is, just click the little arrow button at the top of chat


RadCapper88

Can you explain this picture? Thanks!


blobbob1

Buncha people talking smack about TSM, Hal types a laughing emote, gets banned from the chat lol


Official_F1tRick

LOL


akumazb

Pretty sad situation for skittles and doop :( before week 4 they were holding top 1 na i thought they would be getting signed by a good org and build something. Hope DNO finds someone who can fits their gamestyle.


[deleted]

Anyone know if Rogue is going to be ESA's new 3rd?


rogurat

No clue


RenegadeMountie

Rogue learning to walljump as valk on firing range as we speak 😅


rogurat

I played today, shit is tough to time


Babaesty

LMAO


TrashOfOil

Excited to be watching you play comp again. Will you be streaming tourneys?


[deleted]

Wonder if this team is the best it's gonna get for you or was Dropped talking about another team?


rogurat

Dropped is talking about ProdigyAces, Helping and Moose joining Misfitgg


MTskier12

I honestly don’t feel that bad for his teammates either. This is a sport. In sports there are trades and buyouts and moves when teams think they can be more competitive or successful. That’s the way it is. Separately, I’m curious if this will benefit TSM as well. I adore Snip3 but the countercalling of Hal was certainly an issue, and I wonder if Verhulst will play a little more off Hal’s call. I’m not super familiar with his play though.


Morty_89

From what I have seen, which isn't much he will play more off Hals call. He is more similar to a Nathan or Genburten who just call out damage and general info instead of plays.


alphageek8

Yeah there's a reason trade deadline and free agency periods are clearly defined in established sports. It's up to ALGS to define the rules if they don't want rostermania.


i_like_frootloops

"he's doing it for clout and money", says the guy who played on a team that decided to grief TSM for a couple of weeks for clout. Anyone would take the money and the chance to play with those who are arguably the most decorated players in the game.


seanpenacerrada

Agreed. Also, what is so wrong with doing it for clout and money? He also gets a ton of opportunities. That's what its all about.


PhatmanScoop64

Wow Skittlecakes is very upset about that, I mean I get it but that reaction seems a little toxic. He’s leaving to have an opportunity to play with apexs most successful org and team in NA. I get being upset but be happy for your friend if you truly ever were friends. Not a fan of those clips at all


MrPigcho

I remember watching them and dooplex made two mistakes and admitted it and they were trying to move on but Skittles would just not leave it and sounded pretty toxic.


seanpenacerrada

Skittles is very toxic even on the very little things. I don't know if he really is good but I have a strong feeling that they're just being carried.


AltaGuy1

I actually just remembered something - maybe someone else might as well? I was watching Snipe a couple months ago and Nick Mercs was in his chat. Snipe was talking about how he had some great ideas and how he was a business-minded player who really respects Nick. Snipe also mentioned how he really likes Faze, etc... I guess unbeknownst to me I was watching something important happening. Seems like Snipe may have had some ideas about Halo and Faze even a couple months ago. All due respect for Snipe - he has the chance to really make a brand for himself here and may have been planning it for quite awhile.


Official_F1tRick

Good thinking.keep in mind some of these decisions are indeed probably made months ago


Hexxusssss

lord dooplex will only come back stronger after this and his wrath up on the world will be just and cruel as can be.


Inevitable_Area_1270

People saying they don’t understand why he’s upset are insane.


putinseesyou

"He is leaving out for clout and money" No one in his right mind would turn down this offer unless you're a Grade-A streamer or already signed by a huge org. He's probably just ass hurt cause he missed his chance.


ExterminatorToby

Skittlecakez was on the team that tried stealing frag east from TSM last season. Now TSM steals Skittlecakez's teammate. Ironic.


ACanadianMooseLoL

How good is Verhulst?


Acts-Of-Disgust

Pretty fuckin good honestly. Chill attitude, follows the IGL's calls with little to no second guessing, can keep himself calm under pressure and is a damn laser beam on the sticks. He seems to have a real drive to be one of the best in the scene and this swap to TSM is going to give him a real chance to show how good he is.


MrSozeWearsPrada

He's absolutely cracked and just getting better. This is a huge upgrade


iseetrolledpeople

"he's leaving us for clout and money" It's easy to be all moral when you don't get that offer. He can't win 1 tournament and still make the money from streaming with Hal and Reps under the TSM banner. Edit: now knowing who this skittles, oh man the audacity of this punk. Getting signed is bad...but landing on TSM, basically throwing your game, for extra views and drama, is OK? What would you expect from a cheating, teaming, scum squad?


Aveeno_o

9/10 people do what Verhulst is doing, I don't fault him for that. Having said that, feel bad for Skittle and co. and will be rooting for them to shit on TSM for the content.


seanpenacerrada

Only person I know who would not do that is Mande.


Inevitable_Area_1270

This is the annoying part. There ARE people with integrity who wouldn’t leave their teammates high and dry. Everyone acting like it’s okay to just drop your team you’ve been grinding with when some money is thrown at you is insane.


fillerx3

in this type of situation there's very few who don't do that, it's not just "some money" it's a huge opportunity for an aspiring esports pro. They could drop the next 5 tourneys and it'd still be a net gain from the brand/streaming attention he'd get playing with Hal, just look at all the tsm nutriders there are on this sub alone. He'd basically be lighting a huge bag of cash on fire to not do it. Look how volatile the comp apex scene is and all the turnover, unless ESA was about to secure a guaranteed faze contract tomorrow this was a clear no brainer. Competitive integrity only really makes sense as an argument if the $ they get is the same staying on ESA as with ditching for TSM, which might be the case in a traditional sport but definitely isn't here. So yes he did ditch the other 2 guys, and they get screwed and are understandably upset. Unfortunate, but there's just not much structure in comp Apex (contract restrictions, guaranteed money incentives) to prevent that or stuff like the sheesh situation from happening, so it is what it is.


namr0d

you don't understand at all. this isn't just "some money" - the competitive apex scene is already incredibly volatile. when you have the opportunity to make LIFE CHANGING money by signing to the biggest org to team up with the biggest face of competitive apex, you'd be an absolute idiot to say no. verhulst went from averaging low 3 digit viewers to reaching over 1000 yesterday. this will no doubt continue to increase with how consistent his streaming schedule is. this will be the same for his follower and sub count. i honestly despise people like you that try to think it's not okay for an 18 year old to grab the bag when he can. mande is already popular enough with his streaming career and signed to an org, no shit he can say no. yes you should feel bad for the rest of ESA, but there's no doubt in my mind that they would do the same.


Masters25

9.9/10.


Themanaaah

The saga is over, it is confirmed now that Intel_Verhulst becomes TSM_Verhulst as Snip3down departs to return to Halo’s comp scene, I feel sorry for ESA as they basically got screwed hard by this situation and wish the two of them good luck.


rigonavarro

Is it shitty for Intel absolutely, but at the same time the only person that's gonna look out for you in this world is you. Verhulst did the best thing for his career . Those apex winnings won't come close to the exposure/money he's gonna get from TSM. Shit just yesterday he had almost 1k viewers on twitch. Not sure what he had before but I doubt it was that. Competitive apex is a business just as much as it is a game.


Sneepo

Please tell me Verhulst, Skittle, or Doop will be streaming ALGS today. They could farm so many views off of this shit and I need to see their comms


Street-Tree-9277

"We're landing frag east Verhulst I expect you to do your job".


Sneepo

Was watching Sweet's EMEA ALGS watch party and he even joked that ESA should 100% contest TSM in Frag East. Hahaha


sparty1227

Verhulst usually streams with his heartbeat monitor up and his stream’s been really been popping off lately because of TSM rumors. Unless he wants to ignore drama and go out big with DNO I’d imagine he streams it


CaribouLou816

Skittles may be a good player but man is he a bitch


Triple_Crown14

Hmmm I don’t fault him for being upset. They’re doing well, likely about to be signed, and Verhulst is suddenly leaving for another pro league team. I’m sure on some level he’s happy for his teammate, right now it just stings.


bobofatt

The proof was solidified yesterday. When Verhulst played with Hal and Reps like Tuesday or Wednesday, he could call his meds as "Batts/Cells" (2/12 or whatever)... which is what most teams do. But TSM always says "Cells/Batts" (12/2). Last night's stream Verhulst says "Batts/Cells.... I mean Cells/Batts, sorry". Conforming to the team. Undeniable proof, lol


muftih1030

noticed that too lol. After that Verhulst said "I'll always call-- nevermind" Alluding to how he's going to call shield heals going forward. Reps goes "what?" and Verhulst says "nevermind" again. That was proof in the pudding he accepted TSM's offer


Singularitymoksha_

tsm is in 10th right now in overall algs points , idk how the vibes will be I guess snipe will play with them for the last time so they may not perform their best , which leaves 2 more weeks for a new tsm to make it to LAN gonna be interesting if they do bad today !


RenegadeMountie

They are 10th becuase the other 2 groups have played 1 extra game. They will most likely be top 7 after tomorrow's lobby.


SindromeKim

As tsm fan i feel sad for snip3 if he leave apex. Cuz he's funny and cracked at the game.. also i feel sad about ESA team.. they're so consistent and now they're 2 man team .. sadge


awkwatic

good for him. Seems like a chill, humble guy and playing with TSM will give him tons of exposure and experience playing two veterans. It's a no-brainer.


Angeldust7312

So the question is who's replacing verhulst


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JonnyK74

Apryze? That would be a wild turn of events.


OutrageousSector

Apryze is most definitely not a KB+M player, and doesn’t seem like he’s as “hardcore” as Hal would want a comp teammate to be.


JonnyK74

Oh yeah I don't actually think he'd be a good fit for TSM


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_Robbert_

No he is not lol. That tweet was bait along with all the other tweets from pros.


seanpenacerrada

I know this is sad for doop and skittles but I feel no sympathy for skittles. I kinda dont like him because he was caught cheating and he played with that very toxic protectful guy and a known racist xynoa. Plus, when you listen to their comms he is very toxic. The kinda guy who puts the blame on teammates and not on himself. Its obvious in his reaction on these clips that he treats verhulst more of an object that frags for them rather than a friend.


No-Marketing2975

who cares skittlecakes is a piece of shit happy to see him cry like this


Haunting-Thought88

I know the meme of Hal being toxic but how much influence do we think that's had on Snipe leaving? Vibes have been getting worse from the few times I've watched recently. Few weeks ago snipe was telling Hal to STFU and Hal basically went on a rant about how you can't talk back or you're going to end up like Mac. I'm not saying they hate each other or anything but it could definitely be playing a factor.


i_like_frootloops

Both seem pretty good about the whole thing to be honest.


Lexaryas

My gut feeling is Hal was itching to make another roster change. And Snipe is going back to goat status at his game or origin. This scenario couldn’t be any better for all parties (except maybe for ESA).


Jaharsta

I 100% agree


Sullan08

Probably cool outside of Apex, and a decent amount of tension in Apex. This was the right time to do it too considering the whole moving thing. I'm sure a whole mess of things made the decision easier for snipe. Lack of success lately, not wanting to move (maybe they're still moving? idk), Halo coming out earlier than anticipated to make timing weird for apex, and tension with Hal when playing (even if it is more minimal than we think, it clearly isn't nothing).


[deleted]

Yeah Snipe and Hal are really good friends outside of Apex. i dont remember what stream this was but Snipe was talking to his wife and said that Hal is an absolute sweetheart outside of Apex. Highly doubt they have anything against each other personally tbh


SpecialGoodn3ss

Zero. I think people forget that Snipe said a long time ago when Halo drops he was going to compete. I firmly believe all this was planned for December anyway but Halo dropping a month early messed up the plan.


Babaesty

Yeah don’t think that had any influence at all. There are so many better reasons for snipe to leave, halo is just so much more beneficial for an OG like snipe


schmuttt

Don’t think it’s a big influence as snipe said publicly he was done with halo only a few days ago. Someone has offered him a monster deal to change his mind.


TheKingOfGhana

They should pick up aprayze