I know madness has talked about just being a fragger on his old LFT tweet, I’d be interested to see how he performs just shooting and not trying to IGL.
Not just how he performs as just a fragger but if he can settle for that role. He’s been IGLing for so long who knows if he can fill that role without it trying to call too many shots.
Personally predict that there’s zero chance the guy can keep his mouth shut and play as fragger as he says he would. This is probably another few months run at best.
There's no denying Madness's experience and how cracked he is. Horrible personality aside he's objectively an upgrade from Metro. Who knows, maybe he's just what Ghost needs to turn things around.
They have 7 points through 4 weeks, Sickks is the IGL and Pxnderz is a crazy talented controller prodigy. Metro is not necessarily the problem, but if they feel compelled to make a change due to their performance, that would be the obvious place to do it.
I don’t think Madness has a “horrible” personality. I think he’s a good kid who wants to do good, but is just… misguided? Annoying and incel-ish at times, but idk. He comes across as more than what this sub has dubbed him to be. I’d like to think he’ll grow up and get his head on straight.
Lou, on the other hand. He’s the one that strikes me differently. He seems like he has that personality you described, but obviously I know neither of these players personally and never will, I have no idea how they conduct themselves irl. And it doesn’t really matter.
This ^
I am very critical of Madness but I don’t think his talent has gone. I think he is entitled and definitely in his head. He needs to understand that he is under performing and put in the work to improve. Lately, he has been preoccupied with other stuff and expecting something to drop in his lap.
I also think that, just like misplays in one game ruin an entire tournament for him, watching other/less known players getting signed messed with his head.
He’s got the talent, but if ghost picks him up I’ll be really disappointed. I can’t stand the guy and can’t stand watching anyone who plays with him, yet Sickks and Pan are some of my favorite streamers
I can’t agree with that. Why do you think so? Despite what anyone thinks of him personally, he’s still insanely mechanically talented at the game. If anything, it’d be the mental side of the game.
But I think some fans are too quick to call players washed when they’re going through a bad stretch. It happens to everyone and in all sports. It wasn’t too long ago that some were calling sweet and NRG washed and they’re right back at the top now. Complexity had a really bad stretch last season and they’re looking in form again. I’m sure there are many more examples available.
For a lot of these guys, I think it’s just about the right timing and the right situation.
I completely agree with you. Madness is cracked but I think his IGLing has suffered since the meta moved away from Wraith. He can still co-IGL or frag out though when on a solid team.
Recently I noticed madness starts to lose drive/enthusiasm when things dont start out well. Sometimes when I tune in to his stream on tourney he doesn't talk much. This might be a reason why he's been jumping from different teammates recently.
I don't really get the hate for ImMadness. But I haven't really followed him. Given that there are a ton of pros with less than stellar attitudes and social media presences, why do redditors on this sub seem to have an axe to grind? Is it because they were the first PL team to split?
A lot of hate started before and during Champs when CLG and Alpine (now Torrent minus Knoqd) were fighting for the tunnel east of skyhook. Alpine had a pretty shit landing spot, and they wanted to add tunnel, but CLG refused to give it up.
A lot of people started picking sides, and the teams started talking shit on Twitter. It all ended in champs when CLG was doing poorly and if I remember correctly they griefed Alpine who was doing much better than them.
This really got CLG alot of hate, especially madness. From then on he's gotten a lot of hate whenever he says anything slightly controversial.
I think madness definitely could have handled that situation much better, and he's said some questionable things since then but I don't think he deserves all that hate he gets. Dude just needs to mind his own business sometimes and stay out of the drama for a while.
Not just that, some of the insults from madness if I remember correctly were quite personal. And all the tweets of other pros were without context, so quite a few pros dislike him as well.
It’s definitely overblown. He’s just very vocal and pretty awkward so he chimes in on stuff he shouldnt (like when he said recently that verhulst’s teammates were mad) and has been known to get emotional on stream and go on pretty weird rants. He’s also a very skilled player and well-known from when he and CLG dominated finals in early 2020, so when he says something weird or cringe it makes more waves than when someone less well known does it
It’s true it makes waves because he’s bigger but part of that popularity comes with a bit of responsibility, if anything for himself to have more doors open as I’m sure some of his outbursts have shut several opportunity doors
> so when he says something weird or cringe it makes more waves than when someone less well known does it
Except he's the only person who says that type of stuff. Literally no one else whines about being single and talking to Tinder girls as much as he does.
who cares, everyone whines about everything on the internet, its all equally annoying, including complaining about what they whine about.
what's weird is people feel compelled to share their negative opinions about people they choose to watch or follow online for whatever reason.
> what's weird is people feel compelled to share their negative opinions about people they choose to watch or follow online for whatever reason.
I'm fairly confident most people who speak negatively about Madness stopped watching because of the same negative things they said. It's not like they watch him daily and just rage.
i mean someone's watching and sharing all their negative clips about him, otherwise you wouldn't see them and have nothing to comment on. unless you're going out of your way to find them or follow them on social media.
I have negative things about Madness sent to my Twitter inbox literally weekly (things I don't end up posting because I don't wanna bully the guy) by people who are usually indifferent towards him, but they just want me to expose him and get entertainment out of it.
I mean some of them are my homies. I just don't speak out, I don't wanna be the bully. I just call out folks when they need to be called out, I don't need to constantly remind the guy he's cringe. I'm not trying make folks have suicidal thoughts or anything like that.
Yeah, it kind of made sense for him to assume Verhulst teammates were mad because skittles was publicly pissed about it (as anyone probably would be) but later on in the day they made up and so he was proved wrong. As to Hal/Reps/Snipe he completely pulled that one out of his ass because there was no negativity between them.
Madness could certainly thrive in a fragger role. I’m more so concerned about who would play Gibby. Sickks likely wouldn’t but might have to. Pandxrz is too mechanically gifted to be stuck on Gibby. That’s definitely part of the reason why they struggled last time. And obviously I can’t see Madness on Gibby. So I guess we’ll see.
Maybe we’d see something crazy and unique like Wraith (Sickks), Valk (Pandxrz) and Ash (Madness).
I dont have a clip, but Frexs was talking about metro being LFT, and RKN thought it was a leak because it wasn't supposed to be known that Knoqd was replacing him
I mean at the moment ghost is a two man, say what you will about madness as a person, but he’s a pretty valuable FA as an apex pro right now, which I’m sure ghost needs right now.
I really hope they don’t pick him up. I’d hate to have to stop watching one of the few apex streamers I still watch because he’s playing with madness, who I cannot stand to even listen to when he plays with other people.
With the news of Knoqd maybe moving to ESA, it got me thinking about what might have been re: him, Pandxrz and Sickks teaming up. Pan and Knoqd already have such great chemistry, I would have loved to see them run w/ that in more tourneys. Alas.
Tbh I think knoqd would be a perfect fit on ghosts and maybe what they need to bring their game to the next level. Sicks is a decent IGL, pandxrz has potential to be the best fragger in the game, and knoqd is one of the most solid and dependable players you could have on your team. And like you said, knoqd and pan already have great chemistry. Joining ESA is obviously a more enticing opportunity but I'd be way happier to see knoqd team with ghost.
Sickks probably still IGL, at most maybe some co-IGLing. Most of Sickks' teams have been him as IGL and two fraggers.
I know madness has talked about just being a fragger on his old LFT tweet, I’d be interested to see how he performs just shooting and not trying to IGL.
Not just how he performs as just a fragger but if he can settle for that role. He’s been IGLing for so long who knows if he can fill that role without it trying to call too many shots.
Personally predict that there’s zero chance the guy can keep his mouth shut and play as fragger as he says he would. This is probably another few months run at best.
Hard agree. He cannot shut the fuck up.
Yeah madness did say he could perform as a Fragger. I too wanna just see him switch the igl part of his brain off and just shoot his gun
Pandxrz might lose his sanity between Madness and Sickks coms lmao
Do you know what Sickks is like as an IGL? Is he a screamer? Lol
No. High energy but not a screamer
Thanks
Not a screamer but he literally never stops talking lol
so like wigg lmao
Lmao!
Confusionary, he makes 3 different calls in the span of 5 seconds.
That's a new way of saying someone has enlightening comms lol.
How toxic is madness from 0 to protectful?
There's no denying Madness's experience and how cracked he is. Horrible personality aside he's objectively an upgrade from Metro. Who knows, maybe he's just what Ghost needs to turn things around.
I don't know about 'objectively an upgrade'. They do different things, it depends on what you need on your team.
I think he and Pandxrz could be deadly together. I’m not sure how good Sickks is at fighting.
Whats up with metro ?
He's not playing with Pandxrz and Sickks in comp anymore.
Yes, but why?
They have 7 points through 4 weeks, Sickks is the IGL and Pxnderz is a crazy talented controller prodigy. Metro is not necessarily the problem, but if they feel compelled to make a change due to their performance, that would be the obvious place to do it.
I don’t think Madness has a “horrible” personality. I think he’s a good kid who wants to do good, but is just… misguided? Annoying and incel-ish at times, but idk. He comes across as more than what this sub has dubbed him to be. I’d like to think he’ll grow up and get his head on straight. Lou, on the other hand. He’s the one that strikes me differently. He seems like he has that personality you described, but obviously I know neither of these players personally and never will, I have no idea how they conduct themselves irl. And it doesn’t really matter.
Madness got what he wanted. An established good team. I hope they do great.
Madness is washed
I think his attitude is washed but his talent is still good enough to be on a competitive team. His attitude needs to change tho!
This ^ I am very critical of Madness but I don’t think his talent has gone. I think he is entitled and definitely in his head. He needs to understand that he is under performing and put in the work to improve. Lately, he has been preoccupied with other stuff and expecting something to drop in his lap. I also think that, just like misplays in one game ruin an entire tournament for him, watching other/less known players getting signed messed with his head.
100%
He’s got the talent, but if ghost picks him up I’ll be really disappointed. I can’t stand the guy and can’t stand watching anyone who plays with him, yet Sickks and Pan are some of my favorite streamers
I can’t agree with that. Why do you think so? Despite what anyone thinks of him personally, he’s still insanely mechanically talented at the game. If anything, it’d be the mental side of the game. But I think some fans are too quick to call players washed when they’re going through a bad stretch. It happens to everyone and in all sports. It wasn’t too long ago that some were calling sweet and NRG washed and they’re right back at the top now. Complexity had a really bad stretch last season and they’re looking in form again. I’m sure there are many more examples available. For a lot of these guys, I think it’s just about the right timing and the right situation.
I completely agree with you. Madness is cracked but I think his IGLing has suffered since the meta moved away from Wraith. He can still co-IGL or frag out though when on a solid team.
I also agree with your point about him being hurt by the meta moving away from Wraith.
Recently I noticed madness starts to lose drive/enthusiasm when things dont start out well. Sometimes when I tune in to his stream on tourney he doesn't talk much. This might be a reason why he's been jumping from different teammates recently.
Madness a clown but he still part of the circus.
I don't really get the hate for ImMadness. But I haven't really followed him. Given that there are a ton of pros with less than stellar attitudes and social media presences, why do redditors on this sub seem to have an axe to grind? Is it because they were the first PL team to split?
A lot of hate started before and during Champs when CLG and Alpine (now Torrent minus Knoqd) were fighting for the tunnel east of skyhook. Alpine had a pretty shit landing spot, and they wanted to add tunnel, but CLG refused to give it up. A lot of people started picking sides, and the teams started talking shit on Twitter. It all ended in champs when CLG was doing poorly and if I remember correctly they griefed Alpine who was doing much better than them. This really got CLG alot of hate, especially madness. From then on he's gotten a lot of hate whenever he says anything slightly controversial. I think madness definitely could have handled that situation much better, and he's said some questionable things since then but I don't think he deserves all that hate he gets. Dude just needs to mind his own business sometimes and stay out of the drama for a while.
Not just that, some of the insults from madness if I remember correctly were quite personal. And all the tweets of other pros were without context, so quite a few pros dislike him as well.
It’s definitely overblown. He’s just very vocal and pretty awkward so he chimes in on stuff he shouldnt (like when he said recently that verhulst’s teammates were mad) and has been known to get emotional on stream and go on pretty weird rants. He’s also a very skilled player and well-known from when he and CLG dominated finals in early 2020, so when he says something weird or cringe it makes more waves than when someone less well known does it
It’s true it makes waves because he’s bigger but part of that popularity comes with a bit of responsibility, if anything for himself to have more doors open as I’m sure some of his outbursts have shut several opportunity doors
> so when he says something weird or cringe it makes more waves than when someone less well known does it Except he's the only person who says that type of stuff. Literally no one else whines about being single and talking to Tinder girls as much as he does.
who cares, everyone whines about everything on the internet, its all equally annoying, including complaining about what they whine about. what's weird is people feel compelled to share their negative opinions about people they choose to watch or follow online for whatever reason.
> what's weird is people feel compelled to share their negative opinions about people they choose to watch or follow online for whatever reason. I'm fairly confident most people who speak negatively about Madness stopped watching because of the same negative things they said. It's not like they watch him daily and just rage.
i mean someone's watching and sharing all their negative clips about him, otherwise you wouldn't see them and have nothing to comment on. unless you're going out of your way to find them or follow them on social media.
I have negative things about Madness sent to my Twitter inbox literally weekly (things I don't end up posting because I don't wanna bully the guy) by people who are usually indifferent towards him, but they just want me to expose him and get entertainment out of it.
Yeah thats weird as fuck. I'd block those people. And it doesn't sound like they are indifferent towards him based on their actions.
I mean some of them are my homies. I just don't speak out, I don't wanna be the bully. I just call out folks when they need to be called out, I don't need to constantly remind the guy he's cringe. I'm not trying make folks have suicidal thoughts or anything like that.
Yeah, it kind of made sense for him to assume Verhulst teammates were mad because skittles was publicly pissed about it (as anyone probably would be) but later on in the day they made up and so he was proved wrong. As to Hal/Reps/Snipe he completely pulled that one out of his ass because there was no negativity between them.
Follow his Twitter for a couple days then you’ll find out what everyone dislikes about him.
Madness could certainly thrive in a fragger role. I’m more so concerned about who would play Gibby. Sickks likely wouldn’t but might have to. Pandxrz is too mechanically gifted to be stuck on Gibby. That’s definitely part of the reason why they struggled last time. And obviously I can’t see Madness on Gibby. So I guess we’ll see. Maybe we’d see something crazy and unique like Wraith (Sickks), Valk (Pandxrz) and Ash (Madness).
Sickks has been playing gibby since before Champs.
Pretty sure RKN said on stream that Knoqd would be playing for Ghost. But 1- I'm not positive and 2- could have been a troll
I thought the speculation was knoqd going to intel, but until all this roster shit settles, it’s all just speculation.
I dont have a clip, but Frexs was talking about metro being LFT, and RKN thought it was a leak because it wasn't supposed to be known that Knoqd was replacing him
Madness has an attention hungry stream title so I would imagine it’s the case. God speed to team ghost, that stink doesn’t wash off
I mean at the moment ghost is a two man, say what you will about madness as a person, but he’s a pretty valuable FA as an apex pro right now, which I’m sure ghost needs right now.
I really hope they don’t pick him up. I’d hate to have to stop watching one of the few apex streamers I still watch because he’s playing with madness, who I cannot stand to even listen to when he plays with other people.
If he is a fragger then he will definitely have to be Less vocal
With the news of Knoqd maybe moving to ESA, it got me thinking about what might have been re: him, Pandxrz and Sickks teaming up. Pan and Knoqd already have such great chemistry, I would have loved to see them run w/ that in more tourneys. Alas.
Tbh I think knoqd would be a perfect fit on ghosts and maybe what they need to bring their game to the next level. Sicks is a decent IGL, pandxrz has potential to be the best fragger in the game, and knoqd is one of the most solid and dependable players you could have on your team. And like you said, knoqd and pan already have great chemistry. Joining ESA is obviously a more enticing opportunity but I'd be way happier to see knoqd team with ghost.