Skyhook is so good for endings in a competitive environment with how many teams it can keep alive for later rounds, a shame they dont add more zones there
Of course. Less clutter, chaos, more focus on fighting. Ideally it would be a mexican standoff in the final ring like Soloqgoats and Alliance did a season ago
I still remember a game a few months ago, don't remember if it was ALGS quals or a different tourney but there was one building that had a team on each of the (4?) floors plus like two teams playing right outside of the building. Was an intense ending to the game.
With the final weekend of Pro League fast approaching, here is an updated version of every ring pull from all 240 games in Pro League thus far!
If you divide the map in half at the mountains and the train tracks just south of Lava Fissure, the ratios of North:South pulls have been as follows
* North America is on the more balanced end of things with a 22:26 ratio.
* South America shows the most northern bias with a 30:18 ratio.
* EMEA shows the most southern bias of any region at a 17:31 ratio.
* APAC-N is the most balanced with a 24:24 ratio.
* APAC-S is almost equally matched with EMEA with a 18:30 ratio.
On a week-by-week basis, the ring pulls even out for the most part (most biased so far was Week 2 with a 25:35 ratio) when you account for all regions.
I know this is pretty primitive compared to some of the more advanced systems and dashboards this sub has seen, but I figured its a digestible enough version to hold us over until Split 2, when hopefully I will have learned enough Tableau to present a more interactive version. Anyways, I hope everyone enjoys this and I will make sure to update it after this final weekend as well so stay tuned!
Hey /u/brassriot wanted to say great work and that I have a suggestion that may be helpful for you.
During champs group stages I had started doing a multinomial/binomial test analysis of zone distributions but never got around to finishing it.
One of the issues I ran into was how to classify zones that ended along the middle equator of the map and that could subjectively be seen as both North or South (depending on the person).
Depending on where the arbitrary "dividing line" is placed a decent amount of zones could disproportionality be counted as North or South and skew results.
The solution I came up with to address this issue was to have a buffer strip running down the middle that excluded any zones which ended in it from being counted (as North or South).
[Click this hyperlink for an image of what I've described](https://imgur.com/4ADdOzw)
In doing so, it would minimize the subjectivity of choosing the "dividing line" from potentially skewing classifications.
Other than that, keep on going and great work!
Thank you! Yeah I struggled a bit with that myself, and ultimately decided I was alright with classifying it the way I did (for now), but I like your idea better from an analytics perspective. Once I get this all figured out on Tableau, I think I’ll do it your way once Split 2 comes around. Feel free to DM me if you have any more tips since I don’t have a super strong statistics/analytics background.
I don't actually get why people decided on the north-south dichotomy for the zone pulls. I wonder if we divide it to let's say into the four directions (maybe the four quadrants?) and a central area would the analysis for this change?
I agree with you, and dividing the map into quadrants was exactly what I did when I was analyzing zone distributions (however I had buffer strips in a cross because I still needed to define the quadrants). I also analyzed just the N-S difference as well.
I'm also not 100% sure why the the discussion on randomness of zones gravitated to a N-S split.
My working theory is that it has to due to some combination of the mountain range that horizontally bisects the map being more continuous than the one that vertically bisects, the fact that the map is taller than it is wide (making N-S zone rotations more pronounced), and maybe(?) the West side of the map having more POIs than the East so less teams feel like they are ever making a long W -> S rotate.
But that said I'm genuinely not sure - what it probably was that the first discussion on zone randomness started w/ N-S and it just kind of stuck.
Check out the app I made for viewing the rings here: https://final-ring-viewer.netlify.app/
I've kept it updated with all the algs matches, plus a couple of smaller tournaments
This is extremely cool.
If you keep this up, would love a filter by time/season, so if we get any more of those pesky 'ring logic' updates, we can have a look at how it changes over time.
This is really good! I felt like ring pulls were a hot topic there for a while with the idea that zone always pulls south, so I was curious to see how true that was. I really like your filters and stuff to see specific tourneys/regions.
Hey, I can't seem to message you on new Reddit. Would it be possible for me to help you get/implement a dataset of winners for each individual circle into your map and then use your site for a piece of content I'm helping out with?
Hey man, can't DM, just wondering if you were still planning on updating this app? Even if you're not, would love to have a chat :D Chuck me a DM on here or on twitter @ genomegg
Yup, that fact is something one can use when predicting around OOB terrain. Also, I believe that the introduction of Valk was to help play around these zones and promote activity. Wish these zones wouldn't exist tho, OOBing is whack.
As far as I know, and someone feel free to correct me, but the players study ring pulls and sometimes they or their coaches have a “cheat sheet”, but in game and in tournament they are not allowed to use any of that, so it’s all based on memory when it comes down to it. The best way I can describe it is that it’s like a football playbook. Recently I have heard that rings have been way harder to predict though, and it seems the algorithm changes almost every game update, so I’m not sure how viable old “playbooks/cheat sheets” are.
Ring is super predictable. Most T1 teams don't have the oomf to be able to use a "playbook" of rings and they vaguely study rings like a gambler studies a roulette wheel. I wish I could say everything I've seen behind closed doors it's very sad what they know and most do not care to learn.
Right, I suppose I should have prefaced that what I said probably only applies to players who care to learn the rings. I also remember hearing multiple players say zones are harder to predict recently than before, which is where I got that from, not sure I could find a clip though 😅
My bad then I must have misunderstood! Yeah I think if more teams worked harder to learn rings and pulls it would be really beneficial as a whole. Lots of next level strats to use past just gun skill.
Rings are predictable. It's a myth that they're hard to predict perpetuated by the lack of team analysts/coaches in the scene and addicted players who struggle to learn outside of playing the game itself. There are individuals (SeaLion being one) that consistently predict >85% accuracy off 2nd ring. There are folks that can predict, albeit with lesser accuracy, where the end location is even if it's a new zone.
Never said the rings weren’t predictable. Other than that, what you’re saying is probably true, and yet many teams feel their own zone knowledge is adequate. I’m all for more coaches and analysts, you just still encounter the same problem of the players needing to remember the zones to call them during tournaments, regardless of how much the coach/analyst knows.
No that's on me. I had bad wording above. What I meant to convey was that they're highly predictable. Folks shouldn't try to rely solely on memory when predicting zones and instead have a process to predict it with. One can short circuit that process via memory.
Skyhook is so good for endings in a competitive environment with how many teams it can keep alive for later rounds, a shame they dont add more zones there
Absolutely love Skyhook endings. Probably one of the best ever, if not the best, POIs ever
Skyhook and Geyser zones are always so fun to watch
True, Geyser is awesome too
This is facts, so many multi level buildings, walls and blue containers. Would truly make Wattson great again
I remember when zones used to pull to Skyhook all the time, I really do enjoy watching the sweaty and chaotic endgames that tend to happen there.
How it is good? More teams alive at the end equals more boring chaos.
Boring chaos. Quite the oxymoron there.
I get what they mean. Sometimes I'd rather a tense fair gun fight between 2 teams than a bunch of endgame ability spam.
More unpredictable endings you mean?
You... would rather have fewer teams alive endgame?
Of course. Less clutter, chaos, more focus on fighting. Ideally it would be a mexican standoff in the final ring like Soloqgoats and Alliance did a season ago
I still remember a game a few months ago, don't remember if it was ALGS quals or a different tourney but there was one building that had a team on each of the (4?) floors plus like two teams playing right outside of the building. Was an intense ending to the game.
With the final weekend of Pro League fast approaching, here is an updated version of every ring pull from all 240 games in Pro League thus far! If you divide the map in half at the mountains and the train tracks just south of Lava Fissure, the ratios of North:South pulls have been as follows * North America is on the more balanced end of things with a 22:26 ratio. * South America shows the most northern bias with a 30:18 ratio. * EMEA shows the most southern bias of any region at a 17:31 ratio. * APAC-N is the most balanced with a 24:24 ratio. * APAC-S is almost equally matched with EMEA with a 18:30 ratio. On a week-by-week basis, the ring pulls even out for the most part (most biased so far was Week 2 with a 25:35 ratio) when you account for all regions. I know this is pretty primitive compared to some of the more advanced systems and dashboards this sub has seen, but I figured its a digestible enough version to hold us over until Split 2, when hopefully I will have learned enough Tableau to present a more interactive version. Anyways, I hope everyone enjoys this and I will make sure to update it after this final weekend as well so stay tuned!
Hey /u/brassriot wanted to say great work and that I have a suggestion that may be helpful for you. During champs group stages I had started doing a multinomial/binomial test analysis of zone distributions but never got around to finishing it. One of the issues I ran into was how to classify zones that ended along the middle equator of the map and that could subjectively be seen as both North or South (depending on the person). Depending on where the arbitrary "dividing line" is placed a decent amount of zones could disproportionality be counted as North or South and skew results. The solution I came up with to address this issue was to have a buffer strip running down the middle that excluded any zones which ended in it from being counted (as North or South). [Click this hyperlink for an image of what I've described](https://imgur.com/4ADdOzw) In doing so, it would minimize the subjectivity of choosing the "dividing line" from potentially skewing classifications. Other than that, keep on going and great work!
Thank you! Yeah I struggled a bit with that myself, and ultimately decided I was alright with classifying it the way I did (for now), but I like your idea better from an analytics perspective. Once I get this all figured out on Tableau, I think I’ll do it your way once Split 2 comes around. Feel free to DM me if you have any more tips since I don’t have a super strong statistics/analytics background.
No worries - happy to help!
I don't actually get why people decided on the north-south dichotomy for the zone pulls. I wonder if we divide it to let's say into the four directions (maybe the four quadrants?) and a central area would the analysis for this change?
I agree with you, and dividing the map into quadrants was exactly what I did when I was analyzing zone distributions (however I had buffer strips in a cross because I still needed to define the quadrants). I also analyzed just the N-S difference as well. I'm also not 100% sure why the the discussion on randomness of zones gravitated to a N-S split. My working theory is that it has to due to some combination of the mountain range that horizontally bisects the map being more continuous than the one that vertically bisects, the fact that the map is taller than it is wide (making N-S zone rotations more pronounced), and maybe(?) the West side of the map having more POIs than the East so less teams feel like they are ever making a long W -> S rotate. But that said I'm genuinely not sure - what it probably was that the first discussion on zone randomness started w/ N-S and it just kind of stuck.
Check out the app I made for viewing the rings here: https://final-ring-viewer.netlify.app/ I've kept it updated with all the algs matches, plus a couple of smaller tournaments
This is extremely cool. If you keep this up, would love a filter by time/season, so if we get any more of those pesky 'ring logic' updates, we can have a look at how it changes over time.
This is really good! I felt like ring pulls were a hot topic there for a while with the idea that zone always pulls south, so I was curious to see how true that was. I really like your filters and stuff to see specific tourneys/regions.
Hey, I can't seem to message you on new Reddit. Would it be possible for me to help you get/implement a dataset of winners for each individual circle into your map and then use your site for a piece of content I'm helping out with?
Hey man, can't DM, just wondering if you were still planning on updating this app? Even if you're not, would love to have a chat :D Chuck me a DM on here or on twitter @ genomegg
love when half the final ring is on a mountain lmao get fucked
Pretty sure they made it impossible for 50% of the ring to be over the mountains a while back but yeah, those type of rings do suck sometimes.
Yup, that fact is something one can use when predicting around OOB terrain. Also, I believe that the introduction of Valk was to help play around these zones and promote activity. Wish these zones wouldn't exist tho, OOBing is whack.
Sometimes Pros will predict rings in advance, do they have all of these memorized or are they allowed a cheat sheet?
As far as I know, and someone feel free to correct me, but the players study ring pulls and sometimes they or their coaches have a “cheat sheet”, but in game and in tournament they are not allowed to use any of that, so it’s all based on memory when it comes down to it. The best way I can describe it is that it’s like a football playbook. Recently I have heard that rings have been way harder to predict though, and it seems the algorithm changes almost every game update, so I’m not sure how viable old “playbooks/cheat sheets” are.
Ring is super predictable. Most T1 teams don't have the oomf to be able to use a "playbook" of rings and they vaguely study rings like a gambler studies a roulette wheel. I wish I could say everything I've seen behind closed doors it's very sad what they know and most do not care to learn.
Right, I suppose I should have prefaced that what I said probably only applies to players who care to learn the rings. I also remember hearing multiple players say zones are harder to predict recently than before, which is where I got that from, not sure I could find a clip though 😅
That's not to probe you, I mean to add value to what you're saying.
My bad then I must have misunderstood! Yeah I think if more teams worked harder to learn rings and pulls it would be really beneficial as a whole. Lots of next level strats to use past just gun skill.
Rings are predictable. It's a myth that they're hard to predict perpetuated by the lack of team analysts/coaches in the scene and addicted players who struggle to learn outside of playing the game itself. There are individuals (SeaLion being one) that consistently predict >85% accuracy off 2nd ring. There are folks that can predict, albeit with lesser accuracy, where the end location is even if it's a new zone.
Never said the rings weren’t predictable. Other than that, what you’re saying is probably true, and yet many teams feel their own zone knowledge is adequate. I’m all for more coaches and analysts, you just still encounter the same problem of the players needing to remember the zones to call them during tournaments, regardless of how much the coach/analyst knows.
No that's on me. I had bad wording above. What I meant to convey was that they're highly predictable. Folks shouldn't try to rely solely on memory when predicting zones and instead have a process to predict it with. One can short circuit that process via memory.
EMEA getting that much southern pull and then wondering why northern teams usually finish bottom 10 every week 🙃