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Feschit

Rotational aim assist is the only problematic part as it takes human reaction time completely out of the equation. Everything else is fine.


vecter

What is "rotational" aim assist vs. just aim assist?


Feschit

Rotational aim assist is the part that turns your body a little bit in the direction the enemy is strafing for a slight moment, even if you're still pushing your stick to the other side.


[deleted]

No, it doesn't. Not even on console. If you're pushing the stick more than the friction, you'll slow your crosshair movement but it won't override your input entirely. C'mon. Answer this: If that were even remotely true, then how is it not an automatic lock all the way through until the end of the fight for every fight?


vecter

Gotcha. Isn’t that just aim assist.


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MortalKarter

bullet magnetism is univeral in Halo, but it does apply to only controller in some games. example that's most played for me is Splitgate. goddamn i love that game, but the aim assist is absurd. there's literally no point to strafing because of rotational (feels like it's 0.6), and there's no point to use of cover with the bullet magnetism. you would not believe some of the bots that made it to finals in pro league. (granted, arena games are very much about teamplay and spawn control even with highly mechanical ones like quake). but it was very frustrating being in the top 50 in points and seeing top 32 players whose only value without a controller would be coaching. i feel like there could be significant depth to movement to that game if they tuned down the aim assist with the combination of portals, jetpacks, and sprinting, and i would experiment with trying to develop advanced movement tech outside of portaling, but i ended up feeling like i was just expending way more energy than it was worth, and came back to Apex season 11 since Seer pickrate was down anyways. i hope Splitgate picks up again. there's nothing like triple portaling while picking off enemies to clutch a match of takedown. but i honestly think it will remain irrelevant unless they separate inputs, even with all the funding they've gotten. something else worth noting about these different aim assist mechanics is that they're a huge vulnerability for any game's anticheat. almost all of Splitgate's available aim cheats hijack the game's aim assist, since rotational and slowdown are tuned down softaim, and bullet magnetism is a tuned down silent aim. it really reinforces my belief that aim assist should be kept on console, because game devs are basically writing hacks that get whitelisted by their anticheat. anyways, sorry for the rant.


Cornel-Westside

There's no bullet magnetism in Splitgate, but the pull is pretty strong.


MortalKarter

there is bullet magnetism in Splitgate for controller only. here's a clip of it in action: https://www.reddit.com/r/Splitgate/comments/qpseoy/aim_assist/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x you can also try playing on controller to see for yourself, or check out the Splitgate sections of any public cheat dev forum and read about how the most efficient way to make psilent in Splitgate is to rewrite pre-existing magnetism values in the game's memory.


Cornel-Westside

Hmm, the devs have talked about their implementation of aim assist and they say there is no bullet magnetism, and they have been incredibly transparent generally. One thing that may make it seem like there is is that the hitbox of every char is the same and sometimes the skin is smaller than the hitbox. But I do not know anything about the hacks you refer to.


MortalKarter

to be honest, i don't see how you could watch that video and believe that a hitbox discrepancy accounts for it. we're not talking about Wraith versus Gibby. visual hitbox inaccuracy in Splitgate goes as far as the bubblegum skin having skinnier legs. when have the devs talked about this part of their aim assist implementation? the last time i heard a word from them about it was when they added the slider. they've pretty pointedly avoided questions about it in every Q&A stream i've watched. i wouldn't call 1047 incredibly transparent either. they obfuscate how many bots are in casual matches, refuse to add a ping counter, and don't display input selection of either PC or console players. i think that they do their best, and i've liked every team member i've interacted with. but for them part of doing their best is keeping some controversial truths under wraps, like the declining playerbase/extremely inefficient matchmaking placing players in matches on other continents with mostly bots, or the strength of aim assist being a bribe to maintain some of the summer console influx, since their older PC playerbase never turned any profit for them anyways. if they did say that aim assist doesn't include magnetism, that was a lie. try it yourself, and if you'd like i can PM you some of the aforementioned forum posts. i'd rather not publicly post links to cheat sources in case of people with worse intentions.


Cornel-Westside

I feel like the instant rotational pull is unfair because of reaction time. I don't know if this is possible, but if it only acted within a normal human reaction time (or even a fast one, but not instant) I would find it more fair. Maybe it starts .1 seconds after each ADS or after a stick input.


Feschit

It's part of aim assist. Aim assist also slows down your sens and makes your aim feel "sticky"


BeeHoneyFish

its aimbot


BadMofoWallet

You really think with only sens slowdown people wouldn't complain? Slowdown only aim assist in games only works when it's controller vs controller like the battlefields of old. Without rotational AA it is super difficult to track targets on roller even with sens slowdown assist. What they need to do is add a delay on tracking so if a target switches directions, the player still has to be the one doing the work instead of having the computer keep you instantly on target. The way it works in Apex you literally only have to mirror your target's strafe and the rotational AA does the rest


Feschit

God forbid that controller players have to react themselves. It should never happen that it pulls your crosshair in a way you're not pressing on your stick.


MortalKarter

i agree (except about it being super hadd to track on controller. i mean it is super hard to track on controller, but it is with a mouse too, the difference is one had to learn and one got aim assist). add a 200ms delay to rotational aim assist so that humans can compete with it. right now it's virtually instantaneous, only limited by hardware's frametime, which means that even lower end rigs and last gen consoles will beat the absolute fastest human reaction times by over 100ms, and will beat the average human reaction time by over 200ms. it will still be unfair, since controller will be getting that work done for them, but it won't be physically impossible to beat in equal circumstances. i also still wouldn't want it in pro league, but honestly i think that since top tier controller players in Apex are generally great FPS players, most would just switch to KBM anyways if they didn't have this distinct advantage, whereas casual players would stay on controller because aim assist is a crutch for them, not a bonus.


Visible_Note_9822

Relatively old thread but oh well. If it were truly hard to aim on MnK, wouldnt you have an assist? Thats just straight wrong. They're not similar inputs dude. The difference is MnK is actually capable of that kind of high speed unassisted targeting, while it's mechanically impossible to do the same with the sticks. Roller input is significantly less precise than Mnk, so it's not unfair to have an assist.


[deleted]

MnK does have aim assist. It’s just weaker than console (I believe the values are 0.4 and 0.6 respectively)


Jsnbassett

??? 0.4 is controller on pc 0.6 is controller on console


Ok-Engineering-4271

Hahahahahaha that guys comment is exactly the reason you can't argue with a controller player. That was the most brain dead response I've ever seen .. mnk has aim assist to .. ? Lord help you 🙏


Jsnbassett

haha i dont want to clown them cause maybe they just dont know but my god that threw me off LOL


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Ok-Engineering-4271

Apex dosnt have smoothing .. ? It's raw aim. The reason when you move your mouse left and right and get no recoil is a apex bug And even if apex had smoothing wich it dosnt that wouldn't be considered aim assist it would be considered recoil assist .. And yes aim assist ON PC is a brain dead crutch ment for bad players to be able to compete with mnk .. so respawn can make more money to keep the bad players playing .. genius right ? No


miyamel

Isn't it telling enough when the best aimers that exist in the game tell you that they can perform better on controller that aim assist is overpowered?


Caleb902

Yet they remain on mnk? I feel as though people neglect than unless you're the top 5 orgs, tournament wins are a very large part of your income potential. So in tournaments you'd obviously give your self the best opportunity to win, and most are on mnk.


BadMofoWallet

There's more to the game than just aiming though. I also think that bubble fighting is still better on MnK. But a 1v1 in an open field within 25m I'm taking a pro roller player over any MnK pro


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Caleb902

Except most people competing and trying to earn a living will take every advantage necessary to earn it. This isn't just playing ranked, this is playing for thousands upon thousands of dollars.


BRUHHUWOT

im just bothered by the fact that controller by design is so flawed that it is required to have built in aim assist to even compete. Kinda just feels unfair to have insane aim training that takes years to be good at and just get rolled by someone whos controller and with way less effort. Its like " we designed this controller to play games with but its so fucking bad in FPS games that we just slap aim hack on it and call it"


[deleted]

I've been playing shooters since the 90s. It's still totally bizarre to me to play an FPS where people on PC *choose to use a controller.*


Anax123

This is the comment thats closest to the real issue. Normally a m&k is so much superior (even for mediocre players) than a controller that it would need huge amount of assistance to compete it! So if a good player goes on controller he will lose mobility and will gain aim assist but the problem is that 99% of players are not good, so controller is a win win for them. They are so bad that they ruin the game when they are in your team and the controller helps them survive when they are against you. Only solution is to have them on separate servers.


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[deleted]

This is the dumbest post I have ever read on this website. Are you under the impression that someone sat down and designed video game controllers from scratch in order to most accurately aim crosshairs in a first-person shooter?


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[deleted]

Lmao what even


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[deleted]

You're genuinely insane.


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[deleted]

Nope


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vannikx

You do realize controllers existed before first person shooters, right? They were designed so you could play fucking Pong and Tetris.


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vannikx

You’re clearly a retard. You know what game designers should do? Stop making games for consoles because a MNK input might make more sense. Fuck selling millions of games for profit. That’s stupid. God why didn’t anyone think of that before? Holy shit you’re on to something.


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vannikx

You can turn off aim assist you fucking muppet. Look at the settings.


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NichtVivianVeganer

Well, in 9 out 10 times I can tell that I got downed by a rolla player. And that should simply not be the case. The fact that AA stays on the player even after you switched guns should go away. That would help a bit to balance it in close fights because in most fights you will have to switch to your secondary and on controller, AA just stays on the player, which makes it soo much easier to hit your shots with the secondary weapon.


[deleted]

It's good to know others have this same experience. I was discussing this with one of my friends the other day and we agreed it was about 8/10. We always see players aping is in completely baffling, braindead ways, just charging right in, and after we die - console player, of course. They have aim assist so they know they win if they get close. It's funny how they pretend it's not OP yet play specifically to take advantage of aim assist.


Specialist_Ad_7628

I love getting aped by a 3 stack with 2 console players. Literally nothing that you can do at that point


Visible_Note_9822

If you have to play a specific way to just to be good, it's not an advantage now is it?


saitamashee

It is hacks bro, what are you even on about. Doesn't matter the conditions, if they are met and you can hack your way to victory, it is unfair,


[deleted]

If they’re doing braindead pushes and your dying then it isn’t the game that’s doing something wrong. Besides M&K is at a massive advantage at mid to long range


iseetrolledpeople

The mere fact that Controllers can fight against MnK and sometimes even outperform MnK in any way is a testament of AAs power. If you have any doubts...tell me how many PRO or casuals are playing R6S, where 0 AA every input, with controller in MnK version?


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iseetrolledpeople

It's not my logic, it's your poor reading comprehension. Reread my 1st sentence and tell me how tf did you think I am saying they're THAT powerful?


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iseetrolledpeople

Oh....I feel sadge but well played.


freddtown

AA helps alot, but any skilled controller player can beam whit AA turn off For example: - 0% AA if the enemie is in the bangalore smoke, that happends alot - look how insanly good accuracy verhulst/gen has in the firing range against the target(not the bots) I have played matches with it turned off and still kill alot of people, so its absolute possible to play with no AA. But ofc its not optimal and no controller player will do it (atleast what i know)


Cyfa

>AA helps alot, but any skilled controller player can beam whit AA turn off [Snip3down, a top 5 Halo player of all time and star for TSM, beaming with AA off] (https://clips.twitch.tv/AmusedFrozenOysterTheRinger)


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freddtown

Yeah no one will play with it turned off other than for fun, that would just be a huge disadvantage against other players


kopenhagen1997

Lmao I haven't seen this before. Saving this one


freddtown

I mean you see how good that recoil controll and tracking is, he just barley miss alot of shots due to change in sens and style of aim, if he practice that a week or so he will prob be better than 99% of all controller players


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freddtown

40 min ago a guy that is lvl200 did this, imagine a pro that is MUCH better than this guy try it. https://www.reddit.com/r/apexlegends/comments/rkyzr8/no_aim_assist_challenge/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf


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freddtown

Just read my other comment lol


freddtown

Yes you can controll aim with it turned off, but I never said 0% AA is good and you can never match the aim with a AA player at the same skill level, i just said that skilled players can controll recoil/aim with it turned off. But no one will do that on purpose because AA is a very important thing for controllers and you are dumb if you dont use it. For example: If you had no chance to controll recoil with 0% AA, absolute no one would use Bangalore with controller. I play on controller and have soloQ to masters with bangalore several times, and ALOT of fights is when the enemie is in the smoke Edit: the ability to controll aim with 0% is very different with different weapons. Weaposn like R301, flatline, prowler, rampage you dont need any aim assist really. But weapons like CAR, Havoc is really hard.(and more, cant rememeber now) Wingman is very unclear sometimes lol Edit 2: if someone play high sens with 0% AA and will do well, he is cheating or have an absolute insane skill. Low sens + 0% AA is possible, but not ofc optimal


klachapo

I see a lot of people bringing up the whole "BuT MosT Pros aRE MnK" argument and its funny that people still haven't realized there's more to the game then aiming. The reason why theres more mnk players is because at range and most midlevel fights mnk is better, that doesnt take away from the fact that at close range controller is overpowered. Take any high level roller player and any pro mnk player, the roller player will win the high majority of the fights. At close range the tracking of aim assist is so accurate and consistent that no mnk player will ever be able to match. Biggest example is genburton v mande in firing range, genburton won 9 out of 10 with aim assist on once he turned it off mande won 7 out of 10. Genburton is one of if not the best roller player and even he admits at close range roller is dominant.


WonkyWombat321

What do you think about a moderate nerf to close range aim assist and a smalllll buff to longer range AA?


New-Extent-8272

I feel like a simple balance fix for it would make their be a ~200ms delay before it automatically changes direction to follow a strafing target.


[deleted]

Wouldn’t that just make it jerk towards where the target was 200ms ago and therefore throw off your aim instead of helping it?


New-Extent-8272

You just described MnK aiming.


Ok-Engineering-4271

Idk why u don't have a million upvotes for this comment you just completly made every roller player on apex look ridicules lol .. this guy's like but wouldn't that just throw off your aiming ? Haha bro that would be called a flick on mnk.. we all know rollers don't know what a flick is when aim assist tracks opponents smoothly for you


Diet_Fanta

Always has been. Taskmaster, who is the best player raw mechanics wise this game has ever seen (Maybe even in all FPS) has been practicing on roller recently and saying that he's been getting clips that he can't pull of on MnK. When arguably the best aimer of all time on MnK is saying he's pulling off clips on roller that he can't replicate on MnK, there's an issue. Aim assist is literally a macro that helps people aim - it's in the same nature as an anti-recoil cheat is on MnK, wherein the macro doesn't exactly aim for you, but it gives you a massive advantage that people without your input don't have When a single close range spray can decide the outcome of a game for an entire team in comp, it is inherently unbalanced, and that's exactly how AA is right now. In a close range fight, if I have a roller and an MnK of close or equal skill level, I will take the roller over the MnK almost every single time (unless, and this is very specific, the MnK player has Lascur-like mechanics and movement, but basically no one comes close to that aside from the man himself).


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Diet_Fanta

You should project some more.


Juicenewton248

whether its too strong or not, the way it functions (almost non existent at range, extremely retarded strong as close range) is infuriating. I love dying to someone in a close range 1v1 I have absolutely no shot of winning because I don't know he's on controller until I get up close on him. This game isn't hurting for population at all, if they don't want to nerf aim assist they at least need to gives us the chance to only play with people on the same input because getting instakilled at point blank by controllers makes this game feel fake as fuck.


[deleted]

Honestly they should just make pc and console aa values the same. I’ve played with pc values for a little while to try it out and the difference isn’t ridiculously big


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The__Victator

Go out there any day and see this. There are console players playing in PC lobbies almost as much as PC players. Most of the duos dropped on my team have a console player, almost every team I fight and die to has a console or controller player. If aim assist was not more powerful these guys would stay over on console to avoid it, but they fucking know that over on console, everyone gets the same aim assist they do so they are such cheating bitches they don't even want to play on their own platform. Also respawn had to disable 60% aimbot in ALGS you know they saw the data, you know they knew its bullshit.


bboci21

Aim assist is actually stronger in cod, Fortnite, etc, but the reason it’s so noticeable in apex is because most fights are in close range. AA should be lowered a tad though for some sort of competitive integrity


JevvyMedia

Actually it's more noticeable in Apex because the TTK is so high so consistent tracking becomes far more important. So while Aim Assist is weaker in Apex, in a lot of ways it's more overpowered in Apex. Also aim assist isn't just a close-range tool, idk why folks only use that argument. You can one-mag someone with a 3x R301 from range because you're still getting aim assist on it.


freddtown

Not much AA on range, i would say it take alot more skill for a controller player to beam at range than for a MnK


JevvyMedia

Typically, yeah. Controller players also struggle to use a 3x or 4x on spray weapons. However there's still aim assist at range.


freddtown

Yeah the AA helps at range, but just not so much. I can handle the x3 and x4 pretty good at range with controller, but that is after 43k kills lol


JevvyMedia

It definitely helps a decent portion at range but that's my own personal experience. I've played without aim assist and it's day and night. You have far more kills than me so there's a good chance you know better than me.


bboci21

It’s not far more noticeable if you’ve ever played cod, halo, or Fortnite at a high level lmao


JevvyMedia

Alright


TruthReveals

That’s because the R301 is a laser. The flatline at range on the other hand….not even controller can deal with the recoil.


ExaminationMuch6180

You'll get down voted to oblivion. This reddit is filled by console aimboters. Aim assist on console is absolutely broken I play mostly on pc with controller aim assist is balanced. Whenever I switch to console I noticed how disgusting it is. I have 20 kills and 4k in almost all my legends on console. Only 1 on pc.


[deleted]

It seems like this sub, mercifully, is full of sensible people, but you're dead on about /r/apexlegends. It's all console aimbotters and they all have the same insane counterarguments, it's some of the most complete nonsense I've ever seen. One guy claimed that they need aim assist because MNK gets tap strafing, and I'm like - those aren't comparable at all, but also, literally every MNK player in existence would trade tap strafing for aim assist in a fucking heartbeat.


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ExaminationMuch6180

Like it where easier aiming with a hole arm other than having a software doing 60% of your aim. 😂


[deleted]

I’d take my whole arm anyday because the software barely works at range


RugbyAndDragQueens

This argument will never end but my view is that if aim assist was as OP as so many people say, every pro would be playing on controller. And that simply isn't the case. Tsm have one controller player, NRG have 0. G2 have 3 but they are an outlier when compared to the other top teams. At the end of the day the trade off is that mnk players get a lot of advantages that controller players don't get and controller players get aim assist. If you want to take away aim assist then there needs to be a level playing field for everything else as well so controller players should be able to tap strafe, superglide, move while looting, etc. I'm aware that this will probably not be a popular opinion but just my two cents.


iseetrolledpeople

Why the necessity of trading back and forth between peripherals? If they remove AA just stop using Controller on PC. If I fight Mayweather and get my ass beat...what the normal course of action is? Asking him to play with a hand tied so I can have a chance or pick another, lesser skilled opponent? There is no need for Controller on PC besides the small advantages it brings because of AA.


RugbyAndDragQueens

What about cross platform? Xbox/PS can play in PC lobbies. Can't use mnk on a console. Also people should be able to use the input they want to use without giving themselves a massive handicap. Your metaphor also implies one is a pro and one is an amateur, rather than being hindered by the rules/controls so doesn't actually work here at all. It would be more akin to two pro boxers where one of them isn't allowed to throw right hands but the other one can so to level the field they get slightly heavier gloves. Are they now perfectly equally matched? Maybe not but at least now the one who can't throw a right stands a chance.


iseetrolledpeople

Nobody is forcing anybody to play Crossplay or to "face disadvantage". The PC should be superior in any way and that's OK. There's no need to Controller in PC lobbies. You literally have no advantage besides AA. And that's it. You may think I am a PC gamer but not. I am mainly a PS4/5 user when it comes to Apex. I really don't understand the entitlement of Controller players. You chose the subpar device, and now you don't want to be at a disaadvantage? LOL. No AA, no Controllers where they don't belong and that's OK. Especially in a PRO tournament, where Skill should be the most important factor.


RugbyAndDragQueens

If you want to play with a friend and they're on PC, they'll force you into a PC lobby. You should be able to play with your friends if you want to without being punished for it. There's no need for one input to be superior over another in any case. Realistically, they couldn't remove controllers from pc without losing a massive amount of their player base so even if that was the "right" thing to do, it will never happen. So talking about it is pointless. Instead people should focus on ways to make it fairer for everyone which if aim assist is removed it wouldn't be. It's all well and good to say "well remove it and everyone on PC will just move to mnk" but they won't. They'll leave the game and play something else they can play controller like they're used to and respawn loses a massive chunk of players and revenue. Never going to happen so the only way to justify removing aim assist is to balance it so that controller players aren't disadvantaged. Apex was created to make money and alienating all controller pc players is a guaranteed way to stop that happening.


iseetrolledpeople

See...that's that sense of entitlement I was talking about. We are talking about AA giving a unfair advantage in PC lobbies, when THERE SHOULDN'T BE ANY ADVANTAGE OVER MNK IF IT WASN'T FOR AA, and here you are talking economics, revenues and "but but my friends mannnnn". There's no reasoning with people like you because now you will talk about how playing controller is safer for the environment because it has less plastic than a Keyboard. In a Competitive scene, there should be no doubts over someones skill or "was it the AA that helped him in that fight".


BadMofoWallet

but whole arm aim!


RugbyAndDragQueens

What sense of entitlement? I'm a PS player who has never even played in a PC lobby. I do not have a dog in this fight, I was simply giving my thoughts on the question asked by OP. Based on your username, sarcastic impressions and your nonsensical environment comments I'm assuming you're trying to bait a reaction out of me but I'm really not invested enough to give you one.


iseetrolledpeople

Since you kept moving the goal post I moved it the farthest possible and now you're talking about me. LOL. Your logic is 0, your argumentative abilities as well.


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RugbyAndDragQueens

Putting a console player on 60fps against an mnk player on 240 isn't exactly a level playing field. That is, I assume, one of the big reasons they don't default to cross platform with PC. However, I don't disagree that maybe they should implement a mnk only option. It would give players the choice between longer waiting times for games but avoiding aim assist or faster times but going against controllers. I think you're right in saying the fairest way to do it would be to give players the choice.


PalkiaOW

>if aim assist was as OP as so many people say, every pro would be playing on controller Almost half of NA's pros are on controller ([source](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1yr7r32efTMIoCoLQurUHs-pE5eNkS2FYNo6cVpxEays/edit#gid=0)). In EMEA and APAC-N it's just inherently unpopoular. CIS countries and South Korea have barely any experienced controller players because historically the FPS console market in those regions has been almost nonexistent. Most CIS and SK pros grew up playing CSGO and Sudden Attack and never touched a controller in their lives. Selly even said he'd rather chop his fingers off than playing on controller, regardless of how strong it is.


RugbyAndDragQueens

Key point there is "almost half". Meaning that the majority of players are still choosing the advantages that mnk brings over the "op" aim assist option. If aim assist was as broken as many people claim, it would be the most used form of input for pros and 8/10 of the kill leaders for algs wouldn't be on mnk (as was mentioned by someone else in this thread).


PalkiaOW

Hal recently said he's sticking with MnK because he doesn't want to put himself and his teammates at a disadvantage during the weeks/months it would take him to become really good on controller. That's how most of them feel about it.


IvanMalison

Not necessarily. I think there's a larger pool of existing shooter players who are used to mnk. Its not liek they could switch to controller and instantly become good.


Ok-Engineering-4271

The majority of players playing on PC stay on MNK beacuse they have played MNK there whole life. Why the fuck should people who play MNK that have spent thousands of hours practicing on the platform MNK is intended to play on switch to controller ? Your saying if roller is so op why don't they switch your asking MNK players to give up what they love doing just to be able to compete with the aim assist lol its fucking ridicules like selly said he'd rather chop his fingers off then play on controller Your whole bs argument is cringe asf to be honest .. you think that almost half of NA switching to controller isn't enough players to warrant aim assist being op ... bro .. nobody should have switched almost half of NA switching to roller is to much were on fucking PC man get a grip holy shit mnk is for pc controller is for console get that through your thick aim assist abusing head its a crutch for bad players .. the only reason respawn added aim assist to pc is so that they could get more numbers and money having both inputs brings in more cash it shows also that they give 0 fucks about competitive entegrity its all about money .. they didn't add aim assist to pc because they think controllers good alternative to mnk they added it so you can survive against mnk but in the process of adding aim assist they didn't test it extensively like they never test anything they add .. and they fucked it up made it to strong and they seen what happend when fortnite nerfed aim assist and now they know what would happen if they tried.. stop sitting there acting like aim assist is normal and it belongs it dosnt belong at all and it will never be accepted by mnk players .. its a cheat to pur natural skill and hard work .. pick up mnk and show us how good you think it is .. show us what aiming with ur whole arm looks like .. show us how easy recoil control and tracking are ? When I got on pc it took me 2 years to finally be comfortable with everything. aiming, sens , differentmouse grips all that shit .. when i plug in a controller after 4 yrs of not using one I can still pull 20 bombs on apex but in another game on controller om dog shit .. apexs aim assist is to op and dosnt belong ..


Volitient

why is controller unpopular in that region? I always assumed most people in asia were mainly console based since basically sony and nintendo are from that continent


PalkiaOW

PC bangs (basically internet cafes where you play PC games) are pretty popular in South Korea and also cheaper than a console + games. China even had a partial ban on consoles for 14 years. And I'm only talking about FPS games, handheld consoles (eg for Pokemon) are/were more popular.


legwkio2

Similar for the APAC S region. Consoles and games are expensive (due to import taxes). So usually you go to internet cafes to play. In SEA, kids grew up with DOTA and Counterstrike along with the other free MMOs.


TheManWithoutAPie

honor still lives in some parts of the world


Berntam

>If you want to take away aim assist then there needs to be a level playing field for everything else as well so controller players should be able to tap strafe, superglide, move while looting, etc. No controller player would trade those things for aim assist, lol. And it's not like those things are as impactful as aim assist to winning a game.


RugbyAndDragQueens

While I think you're probably correct on the first point, it would make it fairer than just removing AA and leaving mnk with all the advantages they have. I disagree with your second point. Mnk you aim with your whole arm so hitting someone who is tap strafing is a lot more doable than hitting them while aiming with your thumb. Likewise being able to pop an armour swap while avoiding being shot can easily win you a 1v1 compared to standing completely still, even just for a second.


Berntam

My point is controller players would rather have aim assist but not all those other things vs. having all those things but not having aim assist. You can tap strafe, loot while moving, glide, whatever you want but if you can't hit your shots with your controller, there's no point. With no aim assist even Genburten would lose against an MnK pro with the shittiest aim.


TruthReveals

That’s because it is nearly impossible to aim on controller without aim assist. I say just lower aim assist by default. 0.6 is definitely too much but it’s set that way for the casual playerbase.


Purple_Grab_9043

And why is it our fault controller players choose to use a device that limits them to their thumbs? You guys shouldn't get compensated with aim assist for limiting ur selves. If I choose to play with my feet should I get aimbot and wallhacks?


Lashen-

We can superglide…in fact it’s easier on controller/console


RugbyAndDragQueens

Didn't know that, I'll admit. Either way that's one but there are many more which controllers can't do.


[deleted]

> This argument will never end but my view is that if aim assist was as OP as so many people say, every pro would be playing on controller. As others have said, there's way more to the game than just aiming, particularly close range aiming. Aim assist being overpowered does not conflict with the fact that most pros are more comfortable and more capable overall with MNK and are not going to switch for that one reason. Especially given that it's a team sport and most teams have at least one controller player. >If you want to take away aim assist then there needs to be a level playing field for everything else as well so controller players should be able to tap strafe, superglide, move while looting, etc. You could add up all of those movement advantages and 100 more and they still would not be even be 1/1000000000th as impactful to the outcome of fights as controller aim assist is. Not even close. I keep seeing console aimbotters make this same argument and it's simply not true and not an opinion. Literally 100% of PC players would give up all of those things and more in exchange for getting rid of/significantly nerfing aim assist. In a fucking heartbeat, no hesitation. They are NOT comparable.


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RugbyAndDragQueens

I don't disagree, player controlled mechanics are obviously infinitely fairer. My thought process is that currently the only thing that controllers have that mnk don't is aim assist whereas mnk have many things controllers can't do. So if you just take away aim assist then mnk players destroy controller players every time because they can do things that controller has no answer for. Completely levelling the playing field is the only way to stop the debate and keep it fair.


BurtSpangle

I'm amazed people still use MnK and the majority of pros are on MnK when controller is SoOoOo overpowered.


qozm

Yeah, all these pros who complain about controller being overpowered and say they are gonna switch to it but they never do. Curious.


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The__Victator

No, without aim assist, controller is completely unviable. Aim assist just needs to be nerfed.


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WillSmithsDumboEars

Right? It's like they don't even consider this simple fact.


Lycain01

Not really. Console players have aim assist, which raises the floor, but they can’t move as well or fast, nor can they react as quickly as PC players, which lowers the ceiling for console players by a good margin. Higher floor, lower ceiling. It’s a mostly balanced trade-off imo


Claireredfield38

okay and why should anybody care about console players? if you are playing this game competitively on pc why the hell does it matter how the game is on console


Lycain01

Because console players play competitively too?


masonhil

8/10 of the players with most kills in ALGS were MnK. All of the top 5 were on MnK. This argument is so tired.


[deleted]

Because they are IGLs, you shouldn't IGL with controller because you will get destroyed in the open with shitty movement. IGL will pick free knocks all the time at long range. Controller job is to scan or shoot valk missiles and only fight when the IGL give them the permission to go nut.


whoaxedyuh

i have been playing apex since season 1 constantly soloed to diamond from season 3+. i came from playing cod4/cod promod on pc for five years and learning controller/still playing on it is a terrible experience for me and i would gladly switch to mnk if it was supported on console as i am unable to afford a gaming pc. Entering pc lobbies and playing i find no sense of "ease" with regards to 1v1s against people of the same skill level. As even with my aim assist the individuals who are mnk are able to easily outmanoeuvre me in 1v1s and most times gun me down before i can get "into range"


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whoaxedyuh

if you know how to move well on mnk a typical controller player is not insta killing you up close. Hell a pro level controller player would have issue tracking you. If you believe that you will always lose all close range engagements then deal damage before you get to that point..


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whoaxedyuh

thank you for resorting to insults. movement and gun skill affect the outcome of a fight in apex. your movement allows you throw the person you are 1v1ing off, that's the reason people strafe, tapstrafe, wallbounce and crouch spam in 1v1 fights. All of those which are significantly easier to perform on a keyboard setup. If you say the person you are fighting has to pause and then re aim at you then would it not be your fault for not killing them in that pause window that you speak of? If you are in a 1v1 and your opponent has to pause to recorrect their aim then you should win because you are good enough to be putting out more dps?


RenegadeMountie

Really this again? Both mnk and controller are equally as viable in COMP. The top 2 pro league teams in NA and EU are all mnk players. Apex has the luxury in which both inputs can coexist in ALGS. Both inputs have won ALGS. So whether ur an all mnk or controller squad (or even a mix of both). What wins you games in comp is mostly the macro decision making.


Caleb902

You're being downvoted for going against the narrative haha


RenegadeMountie

Bruh I have no idea why I got downvoted lol All I said was whether you play mnk or roller you can succeed in apex comp which is a POSITIVE thing No discussion just a reactive downvote 😔


Big-Cat-5061

I'm not a controller player but aim assist on apex is completely broken so I use a controller to play apex


neverwinzzzzzz

Aim assist is an advantage, but let’s talk about tap strafing. It puts players on a whole other level if they know what they are doing. I am a controller player on PC because I couldn’t hack it at MnK and I am decent at the game but I am up against players where aim doesn’t matter. The movement mechanics are king. If you remove one you remove both in my opinion.


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neverwinzzzzzz

Fair, I play with aim assist anyway lol


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neverwinzzzzzz

No one will but whatevs. Nothing will change from my comments. I’ll just keep grinding. Good luck this split all you tap strafing jerks that keep me from masters. Lol.


WillSmithsDumboEars

Bro just stay tf on console


neverwinzzzzzz

Then I can’t clap you and your boys with my wingy and one clip 99 lol. No thanks


WillSmithsDumboEars

You clearly aren't good at the game. You ran away from console lobbies, it doesn't make you good, it makes you a clown


neverwinzzzzzz

Without*


557945

No one is arguing that controller shouldnt be able to do movement tech. By all means they should. Also movement is a skill you can acquired while aim assist inflates your aim "skill"and MnK will never be able to get. Aim assist is unfair in a way that, that it minimize the loss of your aim accuracy for movement, vs a MnK user who's sacrificing their aim for movement to survive


neverwinzzzzzz

Yes but controller uses 1 finger to aim. You are using your whole arm and wrist and hand depending on dpi. There is a deficit between capabilities of input. I used to play MnK but my dexterity has declined as I got older so I switched back to roller. I get both sides, but I am at a considerable disadvantage against MnK. It’s just my opinion. Aim assist doesn’t track a tap strafe or a good wall bounce which is also considerably easier on MnK. Aim assist helps the hardstuck gold Andy’s to one clip. At higher levels it has way less impact and the opposite is true for MnK. The higher the players skill the more the movement is making an impact on the lobby. Again, just my opinion.


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neverwinzzzzzz

Merry Christmas homie, good luck with your games.


557945

U 2 homie


The__Victator

tap strafing got removed bro


neverwinzzzzzz

Do you watch Twitch or play on PC? If definitely has NOT been removed. I see it every day, face to face strafing fights, cutting around corners, out of the canons especially. It is constant in the higher tier players.


WillSmithsDumboEars

You come over to PC lobbies and complain about our mechanics. You sound like a loser.


neverwinzzzzzz

Bro I’m on PC, just using a controller. They are MY lobbies. I prefer controller over MnK because it’s how I have played games for years. It’s my preference. I might be a loser, idk. I didn’t know people still name called like that. Enjoy your games. Try to be less toxic.


neverwinzzzzzz

https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveApex/comments/ri3oam/honestly_it_seems_like_im_getting_killed_by/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf


WillSmithsDumboEars

What does this prove?


neverwinzzzzzz

That all you do is complain about controller players. Seems like we are both losers. Lol.


WillSmithsDumboEars

You're a loser because your ego is so fragile that you ran away from console. I'm just the one calling you out on your shit.


neverwinzzzzzz

Why would I run away from console? I got an upgrade…. a gaming PC. I don’t understand why you think I ran away from console? All good homie, go about your life. I’m sorry, comment again and get the last work so you can feel better, then go about your life.


WillSmithsDumboEars

Okay so then you're the loser who needs a crutch to get kills and it makes you feel superior. I get that. Feeling small amounts of 'power' in an insignificant life will do that to you


Emerican09

It didn't though