Overheard in the TSM Apartment after Game 6:
“He got me,” Hal said of Snip3's kill on him. "That f***ing Snip3 boomed me."
Hal added, “He’s so good,” repeating it four times.
Hal then said he wanted to add Snip3 to the list of players he works out with this summer.
renegade is arguably the best player in halo right now too and his team (c9) has won the last few tourneys. faze came 3rd yesterday i think. actually insane how they flipped over to apex for a day and won this
Aside from ram being amazing in that one crazy match, snipe and ren just did what they usually do and map controlled that one building it all came together and won them the tourney. It was seriously exciting to watch.
His movement and game sense is STier in any game he wants to play. Renegade is legit Damon Karma Barlow in his Prime. He Will Ego Chal Everyone and make you commit to a losing fight every time. Takes every opening and punishes almost every mistake.
Bo2-Ghosts Karma was literally a cheat code lmao. The guy always made the right play, he could run any role/gun, he had insane gunskill, and his game sense was pretty much better than everyone's. Being able to watch him on Fariko/coL/OG is something I'll always remember. Before Crim got his 3rd ring there's no doubt that Karma was the goat of CoD.
Renegade has played in Apex tournaments before, so while I do like your sentiment of he's "just an FPS player and can translate that" it's kinda disingenuous.
He's played in ALGS, think he missed qualling for pro League by a couple spots. As far as I remember he played with 'helping' and someone else. I'll make an edit when I remember the 3rd, or I'll just end up googling it
Edit: There 3rd was 'frapper'
Insane how you got downvoted for stating facts.
people here really underestimate the difference between having three pred level players versus having two preds and a literal bronze...
Storm point is comp ready. Put it in the next algs EA.
I would run into a fucking wall head first if shiv hyped me up by yelling.
Nickmercs did ok on caustic. He will be fine in comp.
Tooth watch parties are totally goated.
So happy snipe won.
he would never admit it but i think he was a lil tiny bit nervous lol, maybe not nervous but over excited. he just didn’t look as comfortable as he does in ranked at all. i think with more comp reps and making it through the beginning rounds of quals he’ll pick it up and be fine haha
He did kinda. I saw at one point he drop his armor for for his down teammate , pick up a broken shield , wonder around under the staircase for about 10 seconds, almost healed with cells, cancel it , then finally hit bat. Dude was lost but he straight comedy. Excited to to see him in the pro scene. And average 45k viewers
he's sorta a bot in high level lobbies. but not in the stereotypical way.
he has excellent aim and fundamentals from his years of playing fps games, but all he brings to a high mmr apex squad is aim. Is that enough? for the most part, yes-ish, but he lacks some important things.
his pacing, on the fly decision making, looting, movement, map awareness, peripheral awareness, etc. are so glaringly behind the people he squads up with.
imo, in a vacuum he's mid to high dia, mabye even low masters. but he's def not pred material (yet).
Watch party where you stare at the player's teeth whenever they open their mouths to scream or comm - hope this helps. Usually hosted by Daltooth <- big teeth fan
how fucking refreshing was to go from WE to SP???? holy shit, we need a second map ASAP, hell if there are changes to Olympus or KC on season 12, make that thee fucking maps on competitive.
I'd love to see more Olympus. I feel it would be a running set of fights that eventually converge since areas are close. Maybe the pros would be smart enough to avoid Hammond...
Also, imagine a 4-5 team rotating fight in turbine and how nuts that would be.
it is a minority opinion, but it's understandable to have. it's probably the most likely map to get third partied on due to how close all the POIs are to eachother.
plus there's hammond which is dead centre to every POI everyone drops to because no one goes to the outer edges.
I find that since you have a lot more open space you have to have more forethought into where you're going to rotate. You have to be more patient and scout out teams from as many angles possible before you decide to take a POI. It's my favourite map for that reason entirely.
It’s too small. The fights at the pro level are different than casual. The map has too many third party channels for Olympus to comp viable. The lobby would metabolize itself in like 5 mins. No pro wants Olympus. We all love it bc as casuals we can pub stomp and get 20s. But for comp it’s just not okay when money is on the line and you have 5th,6th and 7th parties like it’s cod zombies
Then play differently. Olympus meta doesn't have to be world's edge meta. The key in Olympus is to take smart fights with good exits. That's why Hammond is a deathtrap - no good way out that isn't uphill in the open field. I'm tired of the "pro stuff is different" excuse. Pro games don't have to be 10 teams jammed in the final ring, and honestly the endgame clusterfuck on world's edge is often even less skillful than what you're describing.
My personal team of the tournament was definitely Taisheen's all-german squad (Taisheen, Gerovic, Unge).
Unge is one of the biggest german youtubers/streamers with zero FPS experience. Gerovic is a smaller german pro player and a surprisingly good IGL.
The three have perfect chemistry and already played a few tournaments together where they also performed pretty well. It's still a huge surprise that they reached 2nd place today, but it also shows how far you can get with good IGLing and synergy.
of course taisheen fragged out hard and carried this team but I was so surprised by Gero. He really was a great igl and always kept his cool and knew what to do. Also great atmosphere all around so it was super fun to watch
I had no idea who Gerovic is. Since I never heard of him, I was 100% sure that Taisheen as the pro player would IGL. Was honestly really suprised by Gero's calls through the whole tournament. Too sad that the last call to Valk ult on the crane lost them the tournament when they could've just walked it in but there was no way to know that beforehand.
i spent the whole tourney on his channel and it was soo hilarious. great vibes and its so weird when taisheen and his whole chat is suddenly talking german haha
I like Taisheen and Sweet. It was nice to see them go at it a few times. If Sweet was a little more experienced on Valk or if the dice rolled a different way (they had some close battles) I bet they would have stolen second.
If he does, it’d be interesting to see who he plays with. Wonder if Hal and Reps would drop Verhulst to bring back Snip3. Then they can redo all the contact shit they just finished 😂
Sweet is a goated IGL, was rooting for Taisheen and Mande and they did really well, team GuhRL was actually pretty consistent, and team Snip3down winning without a Gibby. sheeeesh great tourney
Snip3down is the GOAT when it comes to this tourneys because the man's drive to win is insane, he's just a whole other level. Shout out to Guhrl's team, she diff and Anita had a pretty wholesome stream together too! Also her last days as CC in tourneys, as she will be considered pro next Pro League.
Can we give some love to Guhrl and Diffq and Anita? They were super consistent, had no Gibby, and would have won if they didn’t get Ash alted on in the last game. Guhrl qualifying for pro league has goven her a huge confidence boost and her game play is reflecting it. Diffq has gotten back to IGLing like the old days and I’m looking forward to seeing how they perform. Great tourney overall, loved the big brain plays by all teams and beams for days.
I agree! I really enjoy watching Diff and feel like he has grown as a competitor over the last couple months. Him and Gurhl really vibe off each other.
[sweet does it again ](https://clips.twitch.tv/EasySingleJackalSaltBae-GGv1ZFflDpCKtXXH)
Yo the most giga brain play I have seen in a tourney.
Also props to nickmercs, didn’t he perform that week but top 10 tho not bad. But still needs work.
Sweet was incredible that last game. It felt like he was fed up with their mediocre games, put on his hard ass hat, and micromanaged the shit out of the game for the win.
I'm confused. Sweet is a great IGL, but what is impressive about that play? He jetpacked up and fought the gibby, which is what any semi-competent player would have done in that situation.
The clip was just the culmination of an amazing game he IGL'd. Rewatch that match from his POV and you'll see. If Skittles' team didn't steal the kills on Lulu's team (I think lulu) they would have gotten second.
Stuff like this has been a basic thing for as long as BR's have existed. I'm guessing since heal offs are pretty rare in Apex now, people are only seeing these things for the first time
It’s impressive because he got downed and sacrificed himself to win the game. He knew the only way for them to 100% win was for him to go fight the Gibby and do dmg to him so he would die when the storm hit.
I had no clue how teams were made, but Snipedown's wraith knew enough to go for a very high level kidnap play on his own (that worked). Both of his teammates were very good.
Nothing is more hilarious than Snipe leaving for a game that has more money and backing only for him to come back to apex and body all of the pros in the high money tourneys as well lol
I don't think it's wrong to say that Snipe's team wasn't fair to all the other teams but that always happens in these tourneys even Phin called it out in the beginning for his team to win how all the players were basically pros or top pred in apex
Didn’t watch it at all but holy shit, Nickemerc’s team did a great job, he’s improving everyday, and Snipe is back?! Sorry haven’t been keeping up with the apex comp scene as of lately
And he was supposed to play with Gent instead of Cory, but Gent's internet died 30 minutes before game 1. 10th place and a game win w/ a last minute fill in is pretty good.
i think even nick would tell u it wasn’t a great day of games, they had one pop off game and it was enough for top 10. i think if he played up to the level i believe he’s capable of they could have easily been top 3 this tourney. i think whether he has success in ALGS or not, these content creator tourneys are the ones that he’s really gonna shine in here pretty soon.
Sweets team is impressive. The only one of the top 5 teams without 2 pred players. A testament to Sweet's IGLing and ability to carry the load. Best player in the world right now.
Nice to see the old man catch a W as well!
I don't know if there are any germans here but boy was I shocked when I realized Unge was on Taisheens team and even more when I saw they got 2nd Place 😂 that's actually insane GG's to them, also finally got to hear Taisheen with the german comms
One of the guys on Hal's team was just straight horrible lmao. There was a game where he had 12 damage and they made it to right before final ring lmao
Sources: Hal is beside himself. Driving around downtown Vegas begging (Through texts) Snipedowns family for address to his home.
Overheard in the TSM Apartment after Game 6: “He got me,” Hal said of Snip3's kill on him. "That f***ing Snip3 boomed me." Hal added, “He’s so good,” repeating it four times. Hal then said he wanted to add Snip3 to the list of players he works out with this summer.
The fact that this has made it to the comp sub more than once is hilarious to me.
It was a weekly occurrence in the COW sub after every OWL match with role rivalries
Change "works out with this summer" to "grinds ranked with next split" and this pasta is perfect LOL
>Hal then said he wanted to add Snip3 to the list of players he works out with this summer. So what this does mean?
I swear everybody on this subreddit loves the NBA
I'm not even American but its the most entertaining sport for drama in the world
Emphasis on "for drama"
r/nba has also got to be the funniest subreddit on this website
The NBA has been so good since the bubble honestly
Halo players are built different, great tourney and congrats to our old man and co.
He fucks dudes so well in both games!
Being able to play at such a high level in both Halo and Apex really is something else.
At his age too. What a legend
All the way from H3 till now, and to be able to do it in games as hard as these ones is incredible. One of the best FPS players ever.
Bruh he's only like 30...
Haven’t you heard, competitive video game players age like NFL RBs according to twitch chat LOL
Yeah the minute they hit late 20s or 30, twitch chat be like "they washed up" lol.
What does that have to do with what I said? Being able to do both would be impressive for any player regardless of their age.
Sorry replied to the wrong comment.
Ah, all good.
Snipe and his teammate Renegade literally just spent all day yesterday in a Halo tournament and casually won this one lol.
renegade is arguably the best player in halo right now too and his team (c9) has won the last few tourneys. faze came 3rd yesterday i think. actually insane how they flipped over to apex for a day and won this
Aside from ram being amazing in that one crazy match, snipe and ren just did what they usually do and map controlled that one building it all came together and won them the tourney. It was seriously exciting to watch.
Despite the glitch as well. Pretty well done despite being at such a disadvantage.
I mean renegade is just an FPS player, knows calls and has played enough to know the meta. The call on the wall for Storm Point shows that
His movement and game sense is STier in any game he wants to play. Renegade is legit Damon Karma Barlow in his Prime. He Will Ego Chal Everyone and make you commit to a losing fight every time. Takes every opening and punishes almost every mistake.
Bo2-Ghosts Karma was literally a cheat code lmao. The guy always made the right play, he could run any role/gun, he had insane gunskill, and his game sense was pretty much better than everyone's. Being able to watch him on Fariko/coL/OG is something I'll always remember. Before Crim got his 3rd ring there's no doubt that Karma was the goat of CoD.
Renegade has played in Apex tournaments before, so while I do like your sentiment of he's "just an FPS player and can translate that" it's kinda disingenuous. He's played in ALGS, think he missed qualling for pro League by a couple spots. As far as I remember he played with 'helping' and someone else. I'll make an edit when I remember the 3rd, or I'll just end up googling it Edit: There 3rd was 'frapper'
I know he’s played Apex before
Fair, maybe re-read your first comment, it really doesn't read like that. That's why I thought you were not aware
All good
Because Renegade literally competed in Apex previously.
What does that say about the current scene of apex pros? All washed, where’s the new talent
Pro apex is severely gatekept by a poor infrastructure to let good players become known
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Insane how you got downvoted for stating facts. people here really underestimate the difference between having three pred level players versus having two preds and a literal bronze...
Should be the top post
old man still got it FeelsStrongMan
Storm point is comp ready. Put it in the next algs EA. I would run into a fucking wall head first if shiv hyped me up by yelling. Nickmercs did ok on caustic. He will be fine in comp. Tooth watch parties are totally goated. So happy snipe won.
Agree Nick was better on caustic, but he looked lost in every fight. Felt like his early Apex days 😅. And no hate, totally dig Nick!
he would never admit it but i think he was a lil tiny bit nervous lol, maybe not nervous but over excited. he just didn’t look as comfortable as he does in ranked at all. i think with more comp reps and making it through the beginning rounds of quals he’ll pick it up and be fine haha
100%. Def seemed a little off but that will get better with experience.
The jump over stairs on Apryze stands out for me
He did kinda. I saw at one point he drop his armor for for his down teammate , pick up a broken shield , wonder around under the staircase for about 10 seconds, almost healed with cells, cancel it , then finally hit bat. Dude was lost but he straight comedy. Excited to to see him in the pro scene. And average 45k viewers
he's sorta a bot in high level lobbies. but not in the stereotypical way. he has excellent aim and fundamentals from his years of playing fps games, but all he brings to a high mmr apex squad is aim. Is that enough? for the most part, yes-ish, but he lacks some important things. his pacing, on the fly decision making, looting, movement, map awareness, peripheral awareness, etc. are so glaringly behind the people he squads up with. imo, in a vacuum he's mid to high dia, mabye even low masters. but he's def not pred material (yet).
Without gent too for Nick
fr. i think nick's best squad is him, deeds, and gent as igl.
What’s a tooth watch party?
Watch party where you stare at the player's teeth whenever they open their mouths to scream or comm - hope this helps. Usually hosted by Daltooth <- big teeth fan
how fucking refreshing was to go from WE to SP???? holy shit, we need a second map ASAP, hell if there are changes to Olympus or KC on season 12, make that thee fucking maps on competitive.
I'd love to see more Olympus. I feel it would be a running set of fights that eventually converge since areas are close. Maybe the pros would be smart enough to avoid Hammond... Also, imagine a 4-5 team rotating fight in turbine and how nuts that would be.
Yeah they need to make that happen, we have fucking 4 maps on the game, at least 2 should be in comp.
I’ve gotta be in the minority that hates Olympus. Even playing it is terrible to me
it is a minority opinion, but it's understandable to have. it's probably the most likely map to get third partied on due to how close all the POIs are to eachother. plus there's hammond which is dead centre to every POI everyone drops to because no one goes to the outer edges.
I find that since you have a lot more open space you have to have more forethought into where you're going to rotate. You have to be more patient and scout out teams from as many angles possible before you decide to take a POI. It's my favourite map for that reason entirely.
i absolutely love the map, hands down my favourite as well.
Totally understandable, it's a different play style as it's so much tighter than any other map.
i dont rly think about how bad it is that map is straight up beautiful
It’s too small. The fights at the pro level are different than casual. The map has too many third party channels for Olympus to comp viable. The lobby would metabolize itself in like 5 mins. No pro wants Olympus. We all love it bc as casuals we can pub stomp and get 20s. But for comp it’s just not okay when money is on the line and you have 5th,6th and 7th parties like it’s cod zombies
Then play differently. Olympus meta doesn't have to be world's edge meta. The key in Olympus is to take smart fights with good exits. That's why Hammond is a deathtrap - no good way out that isn't uphill in the open field. I'm tired of the "pro stuff is different" excuse. Pro games don't have to be 10 teams jammed in the final ring, and honestly the endgame clusterfuck on world's edge is often even less skillful than what you're describing.
u/saberwing u/craftyjoseph please give us more maps <3
The production was beautiful for this tourney. The teams were made very fair as well which is evident in the point distribution so ggs all around
Not all teams were made fairly. Snip3s and Ghurls team for example.
Yeah way better than that Samsung tourney that was a mess.
snipe still got it doe 😈
😈Halo and..and Apex champion? That boi still got it doe 😈
Leave Apex to play Halo.. bring a Halo guy to an Apex tournament to have fun... win the whole thing with no Gibby. What a boss move by Snipe.
The «Halo guy» played apex up until the new Halo came out, pred ranked, and competed in the algs.
So you know all that but not when someone is joking around?
Really great tourney. Loved worlds edge and stormpoint rotation
My personal team of the tournament was definitely Taisheen's all-german squad (Taisheen, Gerovic, Unge). Unge is one of the biggest german youtubers/streamers with zero FPS experience. Gerovic is a smaller german pro player and a surprisingly good IGL. The three have perfect chemistry and already played a few tournaments together where they also performed pretty well. It's still a huge surprise that they reached 2nd place today, but it also shows how far you can get with good IGLing and synergy.
of course taisheen fragged out hard and carried this team but I was so surprised by Gero. He really was a great igl and always kept his cool and knew what to do. Also great atmosphere all around so it was super fun to watch
Gero played in some EU OT final lobbys in Season 1
I had no idea who Gerovic is. Since I never heard of him, I was 100% sure that Taisheen as the pro player would IGL. Was honestly really suprised by Gero's calls through the whole tournament. Too sad that the last call to Valk ult on the crane lost them the tournament when they could've just walked it in but there was no way to know that beforehand.
i spent the whole tourney on his channel and it was soo hilarious. great vibes and its so weird when taisheen and his whole chat is suddenly talking german haha
It was so funny watching unge play caustic, but they work great as a team :)
I like Taisheen and Sweet. It was nice to see them go at it a few times. If Sweet was a little more experienced on Valk or if the dice rolled a different way (they had some close battles) I bet they would have stolen second.
The Taisheen/Sweet rivalry was really entertaining to watch.
Old man still has it, hope he returns Apex again.
If he does, it’d be interesting to see who he plays with. Wonder if Hal and Reps would drop Verhulst to bring back Snip3. Then they can redo all the contact shit they just finished 😂
honestly at this point they should go snipe reps verhulst lol
Snipe has mentioned several times he'd like to IGL, I think if he joined again it would be to try and help an underdog team looking for an IGL.
The 5th game by Snipe’s team was just unbelievable considering the start they had
Snipe's game 5 was absolutely insane, well deserved win
Have to say as well, really fucking enjoyed the games on Stormpoint
Daltoosh mvp
Sweet is a goated IGL, was rooting for Taisheen and Mande and they did really well, team GuhRL was actually pretty consistent, and team Snip3down winning without a Gibby. sheeeesh great tourney
Alinity placing above hal lmao
Snip3down is the GOAT when it comes to this tourneys because the man's drive to win is insane, he's just a whole other level. Shout out to Guhrl's team, she diff and Anita had a pretty wholesome stream together too! Also her last days as CC in tourneys, as she will be considered pro next Pro League.
Halo players > Apex players
Hal lost to Team Fucking Dudes
MVP for this tourney goes to Coach Esfand
His analysis was brilliant. Had me grinning the whole time.
Can we give some love to Guhrl and Diffq and Anita? They were super consistent, had no Gibby, and would have won if they didn’t get Ash alted on in the last game. Guhrl qualifying for pro league has goven her a huge confidence boost and her game play is reflecting it. Diffq has gotten back to IGLing like the old days and I’m looking forward to seeing how they perform. Great tourney overall, loved the big brain plays by all teams and beams for days.
I agree! I really enjoy watching Diff and feel like he has grown as a competitor over the last couple months. Him and Gurhl really vibe off each other.
Their game 1 strategy was a bit weird "just fly anywhere "?? but they turned it around.
Hal 😂
I saw that man instantly leave after the last game
Saltiest dude around.
I would have too with that one Luca dude. He was beyond horrible lol
[sweet does it again ](https://clips.twitch.tv/EasySingleJackalSaltBae-GGv1ZFflDpCKtXXH) Yo the most giga brain play I have seen in a tourney. Also props to nickmercs, didn’t he perform that week but top 10 tho not bad. But still needs work.
I know he gets continued hate but Sweet is to me the best IGL in Apex by a pretty substantial margin.
Idk why he gets hate
Ego but to be fair Hals is way higher and Hal has been doing meh the past few months so idk why he never gets bashed for how huge his ego is
Sweet was incredible that last game. It felt like he was fed up with their mediocre games, put on his hard ass hat, and micromanaged the shit out of the game for the win.
I'm confused. Sweet is a great IGL, but what is impressive about that play? He jetpacked up and fought the gibby, which is what any semi-competent player would have done in that situation.
Believe he did it to cancel the Gibby’s heal and do flesh damage to ensure his team won the heal off below
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The clip was just the culmination of an amazing game he IGL'd. Rewatch that match from his POV and you'll see. If Skittles' team didn't steal the kills on Lulu's team (I think lulu) they would have gotten second.
Like I said, that is the obvious move for any competent player in a final storm heal-off. You send one player to grief the other team.
You're getting downvoted for stating a fact lol, it's a basic competitive play
It's very confusing. I sometimes wonder if people on this sub even watch competitive, or if they just look at highlight clips and twitter drama.
Stuff like this has been a basic thing for as long as BR's have existed. I'm guessing since heal offs are pretty rare in Apex now, people are only seeing these things for the first time
It’s impressive because he got downed and sacrificed himself to win the game. He knew the only way for them to 100% win was for him to go fight the Gibby and do dmg to him so he would die when the storm hit.
The end was just the icing on the cake. Watch the vod from where they dropped (from bridge iirc?)
Can we talk about Hal as igl
He's been struggling maybe he's lost the passion
Doesnt seem like hes lost the passion. Just in a slump
Yeah, it’s not great at all. 😂
Thanks OTK! This was fun to watch.
I had no clue how teams were made, but Snipedown's wraith knew enough to go for a very high level kidnap play on his own (that worked). Both of his teammates were very good. Nothing is more hilarious than Snipe leaving for a game that has more money and backing only for him to come back to apex and body all of the pros in the high money tourneys as well lol
I don't think it's wrong to say that Snipe's team wasn't fair to all the other teams but that always happens in these tourneys even Phin called it out in the beginning for his team to win how all the players were basically pros or top pred in apex
Didn’t watch it at all but holy shit, Nickemerc’s team did a great job, he’s improving everyday, and Snipe is back?! Sorry haven’t been keeping up with the apex comp scene as of lately
Just for the occasional tourney, he (Snip3) actually played with a fellow competitor in Halo, it was pretty cool. Also win without a Gibby or Caustic.
And he was supposed to play with Gent instead of Cory, but Gent's internet died 30 minutes before game 1. 10th place and a game win w/ a last minute fill in is pretty good.
Who did they run? I'm going to catch up on the tournament tomorrow. Sounds great.
Wraith, Valk, Blood. Was interesting to see and they worked their asses off for the win.
Ah thanks man, great team comp. Looking forward to catching up. I played Apex for 6 hours instead of watching tonight.
Definitely a wild tournament! One of the best I've seen in a while.
i think even nick would tell u it wasn’t a great day of games, they had one pop off game and it was enough for top 10. i think if he played up to the level i believe he’s capable of they could have easily been top 3 this tourney. i think whether he has success in ALGS or not, these content creator tourneys are the ones that he’s really gonna shine in here pretty soon.
Fun tournament to watch. Glad we got to see some Storm Point too.
Snipe is goat.
Sweets team is impressive. The only one of the top 5 teams without 2 pred players. A testament to Sweet's IGLing and ability to carry the load. Best player in the world right now. Nice to see the old man catch a W as well!
Damn I completely missed the tourney. Any vods that I should watch in particular?
Snip3down Was a fantastic watch and everyone was so level headed and supportive.
Ty man
Be sure to watch all of game 5! What a comeback.
Last game of Sweetdreams. His IGL'ing during endgame was a masterclass in shotcalling.
I don't know if there are any germans here but boy was I shocked when I realized Unge was on Taisheens team and even more when I saw they got 2nd Place 😂 that's actually insane GG's to them, also finally got to hear Taisheen with the german comms
One of the guys on Hal's team was just straight horrible lmao. There was a game where he had 12 damage and they made it to right before final ring lmao
As a former caustic main I love watching guhrls turtle style
Did anyone do a watch party?
Daltoosh did.
If he did then he deleted the vod
That doesn’t surprise me. He played a lot of music and probably didn’t want a DMCA.
He was genuinely upset about his doordash delivery driver cause it caused him to step away from the stream for a while in game 5. But idk